The Hero Paradox: Why are the 'good guys' usually so dumb and inconsistent?

[@wun1gee]

What's even worse is the bad guys are usually made even more dumb and even more inconsistent to allow the dumb good guys to actually accomplish anything. That's how you know the writing is terrible.

[@moldyaco]

@Elizabeth Bennett it's much worse in Kenobi lmao. but yea rebels can get annoying with how stupid the empire is sometimes

[@mouse7965]

@Elizabeth Bennett yep, thrawn only loses because his subordinates are comically stupid

[@phonepunk7888]

Kylo Ren started out as an interesting villain. He use the force to freeze a laser in mid air in the very first scene he was in. But in the next movie he doesn’t even use the force at all for the entire movie. And he loses multiple battles and looks like a failure. It’s like he starts off OP and every scene from then on he is weaker and weaker. They have always had a problem with villains.

[@wun1gee]

@@phonepunk7888 Hell, in the first movie he lost a fight to a girl who had never had a single lesson on using a lightsaber. If anything, Finn should've been far better prepared for that fight since he would've been trained in melee combat as a stormtrooper. But no. He had to be dragged down to lift Rey up. Again, the villain is being dragged down to lift an otherwise underwhelming protagonist.

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed

[@Sousabird]

"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." The problem with current Star Wars is that characters can't be smarter than their writers.

[@rocnathan]

I don't agree with that argument, and I'll just name Sherlock Holmes here. The problem is not that characers can't be smarter than writers, but that, in order to create a characer that is that smart, you need to do a lot of research, check facts and, probably most importantly, have a bunch of other people check the consistency and actions of your character. Now if you don't have the time for that or ar too lazy, and if the people checking what you wrote are the same level of incompetent and/or lazy, that's when you get stupid and inconsistent characters.

[@Sousabird]

@@rocnathan So your argument that you don't have to be as smart, is that you have to research so that you know just as much? I think you're agreeing with me without realizing it.

[@phonepunk7888]

Don’t forget that they genuinely stole a plot point from Spaceballs in the Last Jedi, when they are busted for illegal parking. That’s a Spaceballs joke that was in a Star Wars movie.

[@AndreNitroX]

Wow.

[@istari0]

@@Sousabird I think you are forgetting the part of his statement that involves having other people check the work. You can write someone smarter than you are if you also use the intelligence of others.

[@lowkey2494]

You wanna hear a CRAZY inconsistency: Why is a lightsaber, of all things, able to bounce off of stormptrooper armor, yet Lala can slap two of them with the same armor on and that...somehow...knocks them out??? IN THE SAME EPISODE. The Farce is strong with this one...

[@nickreed3924]

I don't think the kightsaber was supposed to bounce off and be seen by us

[@lowkey2494]

@@nickreed3924 I don't understand your comment

[@nickreed3924]

@@lowkey2494 I'm saying that I dint think the lightsaber actually bounced off the armor in the "story." The editing crew just forgot to get rid of the lightsaber prop bouncing off of the armor so we saw it happen. I don't think it's the kightsabers being inconsistent. I think it's the editing crew being incompetent

[@lowkey2494]

@@nickreed3924 isn't there like a.. whatamacalit a director..

[@nickreed3924]

@@lowkey2494 that's mote of an editors problem

[@Kale13000]

I feel like a big part of the problem as well is that Disney’s idea of a villain seems to be whiney and angry. Most conventional stories if there’s a villain like that they’re kind of a side rival character while the main villain remains a calm and intimidating figure. Disney just writes up an annoying whiney villain and calls it a day

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed that’s why their plot twist villains were always the worse

[@CorBor69]

Moff Gideon is probably the only Disney Star Wars villain I like

[@justinmadrid8712]

@@CorBor69 Yep, and he wasn’t very involved in the story. He kidnaps Baby Yoda and that’s pretty much it.

[@CorBor69]

@@justinmadrid8712 Fair

[@cadbanesfavoritehat5655]

I surprisingly liked Admiral Rampart or whatever he was called in TBB because he was always calm and calculated and seemed to actually have a plan, even if he was a bit bland.

[@CB-fs5ev]

Reva being allowed to live with what she knows and Vader being allowed to live given Obi full thinks his friend is truly dead makes just no sense.

[@wun1gee]

There are a lot of things in the Kenobi series that make no sense. The show is one giant plot hole.

[@Dani-kq6qq]

But if he kills Reva who is not fighting him and he doesn't believe Reva will use the information to harm Luke, then it would just be wanton murder to kill her. He has to first think she will use the information to harm Luke in the first place and she has to be willing to fight him or it really would just be murder. Not sure if the character of Obi-Wan benefits from being a murderer.

[@abandonallhope.1040]

Disney would never allow a white man to kill a black woman on screen.

[@guilhermehank4938]

It's almost like this series was a complete and total shitshow of quality

[@davetycho8330]

@@Dani-kq6qq let’s be honest- how many people would really complain if Obi Wan murdered Reva?

[@sethyoung9792]

Even before Luke attacked Jabba’s sail barge, he gave multiple chances for negotiation and tried his best to solve things peacefully. He only chose to fight (at the last possible second) so he could free his friends, which stays in line with the whole “knowledge and defense” thing. Obi-Wan just cutting through stormtroopers when he doesn’t have to not only makes him seem like a bad jedi, but just a bad person in general.

[@Johnathanbyers]

Yeah luke always had violence as a final resort. He even tried to just speak with vader before he was forced to fight him rotj.

[@sarlaccbreath7701]

All crafted carefully by the man who really cared about his story. And enough to change the title of that movie from ‘Revenge’ to Return of the Jedi even after it had already been advertised that way, and promotional posters/ merchandise had been made and distributed. Disney throws sh!t against the wall just to see if it sticks.

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

Completely agree, but when does Obi-Wan cut down stormtroopers he doesn’t have to? I’m no fan of the show, I think it sucked ass mostly, but I don’t think Obi-Wan ever struck first, did he?

[@sethyoung9792]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 I think Thor mentioned it in the video, but it’s at the part where those two troopers are guarding Leia. Instead of distracting them like in A New Hope, or just knocking them out, he decides to strike them down individually. It was weirdly brutal, especially considering it was right in front of a ten year old.

[@nicks3766]

@@henrikaugustsson4041 Inquisitor torture chamber. Struck without warning or mercy.

[@HighHeelKnight]

I get annoyed by games that has the protagonist kill countless legions of nameless thugs but spares the life of the main antagonist(s) to get the "best" (or often only) ending.

[@kyler3463]

It is especially frustrating when there is no clear character motivations or transformation to justify the change. It seems like it is just to keep the protagonist on the high ground for the audience so the message is suddenly 'killing is bad' at that moment.

[@spidemian1994]

*cough* TLOU2 *cough*

[@Dani-kq6qq]

Yeah, like Luke in the original trilogy. Kills countless nameless stormtroopers, but not the guy who was instructing the stormtroopers because "he has good in him", those stormtroopers had way more good in them than Vader.

[@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho]

Undertale: haha we don’t do that around here. Gotta show kindness to everyone for the best ending. Even you, Jerry.

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

I wish more games allowed you to not kill, or at least allow for bullets or blasters only injuring the enemy if the hit is not lethal. It’s a bit ridiculous when the opposite is true, though, like in Assassin’s creed where the non-lethal response is breaking the guard’s neck.

[@TheMexxodus]

Last week, a friend asked me to summarize the Reva plot for her, and I realised how stupid her story and poorly written really is. She sees as a youngling how Anakin kills the Younglings and stabs her (but she doesn't die of course). She then decides to go and kill younglings herself to get close to Darth Vader. She then kidnaps a child to lure Kenobi out of hiding to get close to Darth Vader who didn't know Kenobi was alive (and vice versa). She then stabs the Grand Inquisitor (in the special way Darth Vader stabs people without them dying so she had learned something from Anakin). Then Darth Vader meets up with the Grand Inquisitor and then demonstrates how to stab Reva for a second time with a lightsaber (and obviously miss any vital organs again). And a recovered Reva then decides to murder another Youngling again - Luke Skywalker (she mysteriously discovers). Decides not to do it. And then leaves ... My friend couldn't believe that was a 'story'. And indeed your Kenobi perspective shows how dumb the heros were. And the bad guys. It is ridicously writing. I blame it on the fact they made it a six-art series and they had to have loads of filler, a 90-minute movie would have been better.

[@qwefg3]

With Kennedy at the helm it would be a thirty minute movie with sixty minutes (or more) of filler.

[@SwedishYouthHumanist]

"Nothing" would have been better. If they can't tell a good story: don't.

[@JohnSmith-og1xq]

Reva was just a terribly character

[@Somethin_Slix]

I just can't seem to get as invested into Disney star wars as I could George Lucas Star Wars. So many little things just feel off that it's like I'm watching an imposter play the role of somebody I respect.

[@phonepunk7888]

I can still remember the feeling I got halfway through the last Jedi, in the casino, it felt like some Disney cartoon, it felt like I was being talked down to and fed trash. A lot of that movie felt the same way, especially the very ending scene with the kids. From the looks of things this is just a continuation of that kind of filmmaking. Leia being chased by Flea in a sub Xena style tv show, it was inevitable.

[@CaspianNomad]

Same, to the point now that I just don't care to follow Disney Star Wars at all anymore. Mando Season 1 is the closest I've been to being as invested in Disney Star Wars as I was under George Lucas Star Wars

[@Ma55ey]

Aspects of Rouge one and the first season of the mandalorian show us that they can make good star wars when they want to.... they just don't seem to want to most of the time....

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Kinda sus

[@yarpen26]

While watching this show I realized that I had never lived down the destruction of the old canon. Ever since then, I just don't look for continuity in Star Wars since all of this is such a huge mess, only at about 5% of the size of the EU. I see dumb, inconsistent shit and I just move on, like it were some other franchise I do't give two shits about, like Marvel. This stuff used to keep me up at nights as a kid. Now, granted, I definitely wouldn't be thinking so hard into it anyway, I'm freaking 31. But still, age alone can't explain the absolutely sudden wave of "I don't give a fuck"-ism.

[@jonathangubbrud8748]

It bothers me when the hero is inconsistent like you said, and it bothers me when it is overlooked. For example one of the things I love about daredevil or iterations of Batman is how the inner hero in them refuses to kill the villain (and henchmen) even though it would make their fight a lot easier.

[@jcrazy9008]

On the flip side that's what I like about Netflix punisher cause he kills everyone lol. It makes no sense like you said to spare the big bad when they are the reason all the bad stuff is happening

[@chair6703]

@@jcrazy9008 i like both, because theyre consistent with their rule. i dont like it when they flip flop on who gets to die (usually just absed on how important to the story they are)

[@nathank2289]

@@jcrazy9008 Yet that's what makes the stories so good. In Batman's own words killing the Joker "Would be to easy, far to easy, but if I did there would be nothing left to separate him from me." Which is illustrated by every evil batman comic.

[@dereklopez9060]

The worst part about this show was letting Reva live, knowing that she apparently knows Anakin is Darth Vader and knows that Luke is his son, when clearly nobody in the galaxy knows. and that laughable Leia chase scene in the first episode. Also, Bail Organa was so out of character in the first episode. What happened to the Battle of the Heroes And Villains channel?

[@smartalec2001]

I don't think she knows Luke is Anakin's son. She found the comlink, and heard that someone named Owen needed help with 'the boy'. She seemingly makes the leap that Owen was the farmer named Owen she met on Tatooine who was a bit suspicious, that the comlink was Obi-Wan's, and that whoever the boy is, he's therefore important to Obi-Wan. I think that's all she knows.

[@wun1gee]

@@smartalec2001 And then she made the leap across the galaxy and got there, without a ship, while the Devastator was still chasing the transport ship full of 'rebels'... The magical transporting Reva.

[@roger632]

@@smartalec2001 No... but she knows of Obi-Wan's and a young Luke's presence on Tatooinee... that's enough information already. She should've died, for canon's sake. Ezra in Rebels knew of Obi-Wan's location, yes... but he was hiding with the other Rebels on their secret base, and then he got blasted off to who knows where in the galaxy just in the next season. So, because he was removed from the situation, his knowledge of Obi-Wan's whereabouts didn't pose that much of a danger compared to Reva.

[@smartalec2001]

@@wun1gee I guess if we have to guess at how she got across the galaxy, there was a second ship she could have used - the one Vader pulled down to the ground. A scene showing her using it, to clear this up, would have been nice, for sure...

[@wun1gee]

@@smartalec2001 Vader literally ripped that one apart.. There's no way that ship was space-worthy at that point.

[@buskergirl]

You should make a poll about which character was made the most dumb in this show.

[@wun1gee]

And then a poll about which character was artificially lifted up the most to other characters' detriment. Prediction: It'll start with an L or an R.

[@ppsarrakis]

I think the dumbest must be Bail Organa.

[@sivad1025]

Yeah... that's not a question at all lol Bail made two egregiously dumb decisions that both had massive consequences on the show and the cannon. In fact, this show doesn't exist without Bail being an idiot

[@anthonyplanzo1082]

It's a tie. Every single character was made the dumbest as possible except for Luke. He was just useless and irrelevant compared to his superstar sister.

[@AndreNitroX]

Yes

[@Blackdawn80]

Spaceballs is less a parody of Star Wars than the entire sequel trilogy.

[@antelopedon6341]

Thank you, Thor, for your well reasoned and articulated breakdown of the major character inconsistencies that are now embedded in Star Wars canon. The series should have never been made and has only tarnished the legacy of Obi-wan.

[@fellowpassenger_54-67]

They should’ve just adapted the legends Obi Wan novel, especially since I heard that it fits pretty well with canon stuff

[@ArmouredProductions]

I think I remember in the DVD I had of Phantom Menace, in the Special Features / Behind the Scenes, Lucas says that exact fact about Battle Droids. He made the bad guy fodder be droids so that we could see Jedi dismember more things but not be people.

[@AndreNitroX]

Another great man named Gendy Tartakovsky also said that you can do whatever violence you want to wards robots.

[@nelguinevere4036]

Every time they now cut down storm troopers I just imagine Finn under the helmet. Really puts things into perspective. But yeah, no joke, Obi-Wan is now the villain of the story. If one looks at all his actions from Episode I all the way to Episode VI with this nightmare sitting proudly in the middle, there is no way round it - Kenobi is evil. Or soooo stupid that it'd be better if he were evil....

[@Juan-zs6jt]

"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" - Darth Vader

[@nelguinevere4036]

@@Juan-zs6jt yeah, it's funny how the more content Disney produce, the more validation they give to Vader's point of view.

[@Ihavethetouch]

I had the same problem with No Way Home. Holland's Spidey is hellbent on saving all the villains from dying, but he has literally killed way more people than all the villains and Spideys combined.

[@nelguinevere4036]

@@Ihavethetouch oh my, let's not go there, I immediately have to think about hundreds of people Black Widow casually killed in her own movie and that makes me very upset))) truth of the matter is, this BS happens a lot, it's very rare that the creators will actually think about such random casualties their heroes leave behind. Unless the hero is hell bent on not killing, like Batman (and even then ...) But in case of a Jedi and especially one who's been through so much and needs to be exceptionally wise and kind it does truly bother me a lot. Especially when he then let's two monsters survive. The second one is Reva because I don't care for her redemption, she is a monster and should have been put down just in case she loses her mind again.

[@cacuevas]

3:36 actually the lightsaber literally bounces of one of the stormtroopers, I wish i was joking

[@yevaud1394]

“Now you see that evil will always triumph. Because good is dumb.” -Dark Helmet

[@Kevin_Street]

Heh. I certainly "killed" plenty of Stormtroopers when playing with action figures back in the day. You're absolutely right about the helmets making them look like faceless drones. There are a lot of stories that cover up the bad guys so we can't see them as individuals. There's a recent Chris Hemsworth movie (Exctraction, 2020) that involves Hemsworth's character fighting pretty much the entire police force of the city of Dhaka in Bangladesh, where the police officers seem to be extremely fond of wearing scarves over their faces. This is done so we don't see their expressions of pain and fear as they get gunned down one after another. (Or maybe so we don't realize the same stunt men are coming back again and again!) But if you're actually in a battle and those guys are trying their best to kill you, there isn't much choice. I don't begrudge Obi-Wan using every advantage he has to win the day and rescue Leia. Maybe he could have mind tricked those Stormtroopers in the chamber - but he might have ended up fighting them again in a corridor or on the flight deck and this time one of them might have landed a lucky shot and ended him for good. When you're by yourself with no backup (other than Tala who had plenty of problems of her own) you can't take chances. As for Darth Vader... Yeah, no excuses for that one. I know Obi-Wan can't actually kill Darth Vader, but he should have _tried._ Then something would happen to save Vader's life and necessitate a quick escape for Kenobi. An interruption to their duel until they finally finish it on the Death Star. And Reva... It does feel like the story expects us to sympathize with her, even though we only saw a few quick scenes of Reva as a child. That's a weird one. I can't really explain what the writer was thinking, except that her story was supposed to mirror Anakin/Darth Vader. As for Obi-Wan forgiving her, I don't think there was much else he could do. He arrived after the fighting was over, and no one was seriously injured. Crucially, Luke was only slightly hurt. And Reva seemed genuinely repentant. (Something he could feel through the Force.) As a Jedi he has to encourage that and try to save her from falling back to the Dark Side. Jedis, even ones on galaxy saving missions, can't kill people if they surrender first, no matter the risk.

[@DrakeBarrow]

You mostly said what I was thinking. Especially that Reva thing...yeah, it's kinda dumb to let her go, but Obi-Wan isn't Cassian Andor and doesn't kill people because it's expedient. He does it when it's necessary...unless it's Darth Vader, apparently.

[@lykurgofsparta2216]

So why didnt he take her Prisoner? I mean she knew about Luke … Not killing her is fine and such, but just letting her go is just plain stupid!!!

[@beowulf.reborn]

I heard that the whole Reva lives, and gets Obi's communicator was all last minute reshoots ... apparently she was meant to die in Ep 5 ... which would have been such a better arc.

[@callmeej8399]

Disney can’t actually kill a character

[@lennyztrobos8678]

@@callmeej8399 Well they did try to make up for it by killing off every single character in Rogue One. But that felt like a mistake too, as I thought Jyn Erso had some potential left as a Solo-type scoundrel (unlike Cassian Andor because forget that guy). So it's either too much or too little. 😅

[@beowulf.reborn]

@@callmeej8399 Unless it's Luke, Han, Leia, etc.

[@callmeej8399]

@@beowulf.reborn true and they’ll do it unceremoniously

[@theoneneo5024]

Remember how untrained Rae, who had never even heard of Jedi mind control, was able to get a storm trooper to release her and leave his weapon behind? Too bad Master Jedi Obi-Wan couldn't have done something like this.

[@beerosaurusrex]

Have you heard the Disney fans' headcanon for that? They try to claim that when Kylo was mind-reading her he was sloppy and undisciplined and so inadvertently transferred some of his knowledge to her. That she basically Matrix downloaded some Force skills from him.

[@paulemge9156]

Depends on the story and characters on whether wholesale killing is fine. Jedi should be conflicted on killing what amounted to security guards just doing there job

[@BepisQueen]

This is an interesting dilemma. Because sometimes, when watching Rebels, I’ll get upset that the heroes avoid killing a large majority of the time. (No hate towards Rebels, I love the show and the characters.) But now that you, Thor, bring it up, it does seem weird that Obi-Wan kills so indiscriminately until it comes down to the two main villains that have actually done horrible things for the purpose of, well, their own agenda

[@AndreNitroX]

To comment on rebels. At times they painfully avoid death, which is why when it happens it feels long overdue. But at the same time, it does make the rebels look more positive by not killing, but even that is inconsistent.

[@jtszabo1691]

Thor, I’d like to see you and Naboo review Spaceballs sometime as well as other famous Star Wars parodies like you do with memes. I just think that would be a cool idea for a video, talk about how the jokes and parity work and relation of the story and your sense of humor or something like that

[@ConqueredSun]

Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT were perfectly wise and totally at peace with themselves. George Lucas drew a lot of inspiration from Buddhism, and both characters came across as enlightened Zen monks who were either warriors in their prime or trained many such warriors. The way Jedi are now always shown as tormented, at conflict with themselves, and either ruthlessly violent or being partial in how they extend mercy is watering down their appeal.

[@Angrenost02]

May I recall the time during the Clone Wars when Mace Windu, Anakin and Obi-Wan used the Force to mind-break Cad Bane to find a holocron? And people think that Obi wouldn't kill Vader? Come on...

[@AndreNitroX]

Or how about kid adi Mundi “Use the flamethrowers🔥”

[@share1822]

(Lord Helmet) And Now you understand lonestar, that EVIL will always triumph, because GOOD... is DUMB!

[@diersteinjulien6773]

the dumb thing is not Obi-Wan sparing Vador's life. It's thinking Vador would take a single minute of rest until he's absolutely certain Obi-wan is dead, if he knows he's alive.

[@jirkazalabak1514]

Vader had been extremely busy hunting down all the other Jedi survivors. You do know that Vader is not actually his own boss, right? He still has to follow the commands of his master first.

[@diersteinjulien6773]

@@jirkazalabak1514 for more than ten years, when the estimated count of jedi surviving order 66 is less than a hundred, with the help of the whole imperial army?

[@jirkazalabak1514]

@@diersteinjulien6773 The Inquisitors were still around even in Rebels, so yeah, the Jedi were still around as well. Besides, we hear in the show that they already tried looking for Kenobi in the past, but failed. After a while, even Vader probably gave up and decided to focus on other things. As I said, he was a busy guy.

[@diersteinjulien6773]

@@jirkazalabak1514 yes. After a while. Not immediately. Vader is litteraly fueled by rage, it's what defines him, he wouldn't let it go easily, it would take years for him to give up the chase, and he would pull all the imperial ressources available to track Kenobi down. He betrayed the whole jedi order and the republic because he couldn't let go. The guy knows how to hold a grudge. Especialy if Kenobi beat him AGAIN. Like I said somewhere else, the only way for it to have ended in a coherent way would have been for Kenobi to fake his death ina credible way.

[@elmark3550]

Are you french by any chance?

[@4k8t]

Can't have Obi-Wan be skilled, intelligent and wise when the intent was to highlight Leia and Reva. As Critical Drinker might say, "his actions were predicated on making the intended story line work not be consistent with what his actions would have been". I keep thinking that there might be a definite lack of imagination on the part of the story tellers here.

[@objectivelyacat3873]

In my experience this sort of moral insanity began with Thor Ragnarok where Valkyrie makes a career out of enslaving people, which is played for laughs, and is never taken to task for her crimes in any way. The further she rises in Asgardian society the more this bothers me. Your "rightful" ruler is a former slave trader?!?!!! Edit: this is simply the first I've noted this trend any prior examples probably went over my head.

[@shadowofhawk55]

But she’s not white, only white people can be slavers. Ghana, Mali, the Aztecs, The Ottomans? Don’t exist.

[@Dani-kq6qq]

By your logic with Valkyrie, Odin couldn't be the rightful ruler because he is also a former slave trader and committed many genocides. Your argument falls apart the moment when you realize that what Valkyrie does in Thor Ragnarok is not even close to being as bad as the things Odin and Thor have done in their lives lmao. They both went full H*tler on an entire race and not even prison time? Edit: Yes, Valkyrie also did worse things under Odin's command than anything she did in Ragnarok. Most of the gods did significantly worse shit than anything that happens in Thor Ragnarok

[@objectivelyacat3873]

@@Dani-kq6qq nice example of whataboutism fallacy. I cannot recall any mention of Asgard being a slave society. Neither is it even hinted that they were genocidal. The indication is that they were militaristic-expansionists which is just as wrong. The difference is that in previous movies both are taken to task for these crimes and both express penitence and remorse for their actions, which the films treat as wrong. Valkyrie's crimes are played for laughs and treated as justified. This is what I take exception to.

[@Kilthan2050]

@@Dani-kq6qq The while point of the first Thor movie is that he needed to learn to not be an asshole. Odin is taken to task for his past in each film. Valkyrie gets a pass and is made queen, while Thor is made a butt monkey.

[@Dani-kq6qq]

@@objectivelyacat3873 Lol what, Asgard was genocidal, it was even mentioned in the Thor Ragnarok movie you are trying to use. It is also used mentioned in the other movies too. Odin and Asgard committed pretty much every evil Hitler committed and much worse, he was a galactic tyrant. And this is if we don't go into the comics where shit gets real. Apparently it is whataboutism to point out the inconsistency in your standards & arguments. I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that she should not be the ruler, but that means neither could Odin or even Thor after he tried to genocide an entire species. Valyrie has also done a lot worse things than anything she does in Ragnarok. The Asgardian Gods are not good guys, they have killed many innoceny people.

[@austinjohnsen4430]

Just have Vader in a fit of rage cause the terrain to start crumbling, forcing Obi Wan to get out of there as quickly as possible.

[@AndreNitroX]

🤦🏻

[@andysat1318]

Something like this that stops the fight but with Obi-Wan still clearly dominating would have made a much better ending. Keep Kenobi from choosing life or death.

[@austinjohnsen4430]

@@andysat1318 Or it can be after the fight where they have that conversation, except this time Obi Wan does try to go for the kill and Vader starts tearing shit apart in response.

[@saroachman]

"It also means that any blood Vader spills after this is also, in large part, on Kenobi's hands" Like when Vader blows up Leia's homeworld Alderaan ten years later. Pottery!

[@starcabal2006]

its just another nostalgia trip.

[@aaronfrey4418]

Heroes freely killing henchman while sparing the main villain for moral reasons drives me crazy. This is so they can to look like badasses while taking out the nameless/faceless fodder and then look like the hero when sparing the villain's life at the end. Not to mention this allows the villain to return so that the fight can continue.

[@sivad1025]

I thought it was hilarious that in Peacemaker, he actually does the right thing at the end but of course it's portrayed as being horribly immoral. I just don't think Hollywood is capable of comprehending basic moral concepts

[@Dani-kq6qq]

So pretty much Luke in the original trilogy, kills countless stormtroopers, but not Vader.

[@bakedandsalty9234]

At around the 2 min mark: I think you mean Reva, our “tragically misunderstood hero; stunning and brave.”

[@garydawson6346]

TCW and ROTS demonstrated Obi Wan had a level of compassion to the clone troopers under his command even beyond that of any of his Jedi peers, this just makes it more out of character to blankly kill stormtroopers. (Even with no shortage of them getting blasted in ANH, Ben did not harm a single one).

[@jawstrock2215]

They already had Luke kill a bunch of people in the Mandalorian, and the reaction I mostly saw was "OMG it's Luke!" I was perplexed on why Luke was just murdering everyone on his path there.

[@juanpedrorocha9309]

They were Super Battle droids.Not people

[@vonsowards1297]

Your tone reflects how I feel: just a little disenchanted with Star Wars at the moment…. Or maybe I am just projecting…

[@dannbrauckmann1545]

Man, again I gotta say, well said. I'm glad you're finally noticing all the problems and stupid writing from this series. "You have accepted the truth."

[@babtanian]

I've struggled with this as well and there's no way I can justify it. The only thing I've used in my own head canon is the difference between killing during battle and... execution. This distinction should be significant to the Jedi above all, but does exist in real life without question. Personally, as a former Marine, I have little to no reservations killing an enemy during battle to protect my country, its citizens, my fellow warriors or myself. After that battle has concluded however, there is no chance I would be willing to execute an already defeated enemy who is captured, incapacitated or otherwise defenseless. I would not accept orders to serve as an executioner, let alone do it of my own free will... and this is true despite the fact that I bear no resemblance to something like a monk who has willingly sacrificed their own desires to serve a greater good.

[@markuhler2664]

Vader would not have accepted defeat, & even unarmed (unless literally, bwahahaha) he would have continued to fight, & lethally so. Had he shown signs of surrender, then yes, at that point you are morally (& for us (former USN) legally) bound to not execute him - in fact, even provide him aid, shelter, food, etc.

[@tcb8248]

I’m watching the show “Justified” and one thing I love about the show is that the “good guy” is always portrayed competently and consistently. He’s not easily fooled and always has a good sense of what’s going on. Yet the show still has plenty of ways to keep the stakes high and interesting.

[@BrianHartman]

I don't think you're right here. I think both actions were justified. 1) The storm troopers were there to make sure Leia was tortured. There was nothing sympathetic about them, and they were armed. He couldn't afford to use the Jedi mind trick and risk it failing. (We've seen it fail on storm troopers before.) That was an emergency situation. And nothing we've seen in Star Wars hints that a Jedi needs to have any compunction about taking out a storm trooper. 2) Vader was defenseless. Killing him at that point would've been like Anakin killing Dooku. When Windu is going to kill Palpatine, the *one thing* that Anakin said that was right was that it wasn't the Jedi way. And Windu doesn't argue that it *is* the Jedi way. He simply argues that it's necessary.

[@fellowpassenger_54-67]

Your first point is fine but I don’t think the second point works since if that were the case than why did Obi Wan want Luke to kill Vader? If Luke being successful would involve Vader being defenseless at some point so that Luke could kill him

[@KMort]

The droid thing you said in the end was done wonderfully in tcw. because we see how unused to killing people/alien species the jedi are, every time in the show they kill a thinking, living being we usually feel the impact of the action. especially through someone like ahsoka who at this time was a kid who'd likely never imagined she'd do something like it.

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed

[@cjpatz]

In terms of writing, when you compare this show to shows like; “The Offer” or “Reacher”, the quality of story and character development is less engaging. Also, a good story should stand on its own, as if the other stories in the canon don’t exist. Not saying they make inconsistencies, but it shouldn’t be propped up solely on nostalgia bate. Example Topgun Maverick; many will argue it’s better than the first.

[@coolcats4summer82]

Request: I would love for you to touch upon the fact that the Empire sent out, across the galaxy, a “Wanted” bulletin(complete with a face image) and a reward for the capture/killing of Obiwan during the Kenobi show. And, as far as I can tell, that bulletin is still in circulation. You would have to imagine a random bounty hunter on Tatooine would have recognized him at some point, right?Like eventually the word would get out causing hunter after hunter, and eventually the Empire, to come after him, right?

[@alexturner8709]

Yeah it’s super dumb that he doesn’t kill Vader when he kills other bad guys. Ridiculous.

[@MCsCreations]

For me, Obi-Wan has the same issue Luke is going to have later. Both know it would be right to kill Vader... But neither of them can do that.

[@reazonuk2362]

Nah it makes far less sense. Obi wan- just like Yoda- believes Anakin is gone. All that's left is vader. Luke on the other hand believes he can bring him back. That's why its terrible writing. Obi wan heats vaders words, believes his friend is gone but can't kill him because (a) its the typical good guy trope of sparing the beaten villain (b) the story demands he can't be killed of course . Now typically a good guy who spares the villain does so because he can arrest the perpetrator to stand trial and be sentenced but of course the empire is the highest authority in the galaxy. This then can only lead to the decision to kill vader off since he can't face justice lawfully.... In the end all that cN happen is he be let go .....and that simply makes no sense

[@sporgultimes2]

I agree on some of your points and disagree on others but I really do wish they’d do what you suggested and have it look like kenobi or other Jedi are trying to spare the lives of the “grunts”. In heir to the empire Luke is ambushed by the noghri and first try’s to incapacitate them and if I remember correctly when he is forced to draw his saber he laments what he’s going to do. The scene was still exiting but it didn’t compromise his morals ether.

[@lakersfan2425]

What points do you agree and disagree with

[@sporgultimes2]

@@lakersfan2425 I agree with the comment on stormtroopers but it doesn’t bother me much. I agree that Obi-wan in that situation would’ve probably killed Vader but if it was done better I could buy it. Killing a defenseless enemy would definitely make him hesitate even if it was for the greater good and I doubt he was in any sort of peace in the moment. Though that’s idea vs execution. Reva I pretty much disagree with. Yes the events that led her to find Luke was dumb as heck and I still don’t get her motive at that point but I don’t think Obi-wan would even think about killing her. She’s repented she’s pretty much defenseless he wouldn’t kill her. I also disagree about her character arc my interpretation was he was the representation of the line “once you step down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny.” Where your cause is the only thing that matters but you don’t care how you get there. It wasn’t perfect there was a lot of issues but I don’t think we were supposed to forgive her for everything in the moment. Sorry for my long winded rambling.

[@jameskirk4692]

Exactly! 100% agree with everything. You read my thoughts perfectly. The same thing were/are bothering me too. One major reason, among many, I don't consider this a headcannon for myself, is that Obi Wan won over Vader and had perfect opportunity to destroy him for good, and yet he chose not to for whatever reason(cause he must live through OT). I thought the whole purpose of Jedi is to protect innocent by actually destroying the Sith, not talking to them and leave them bit weakened and forgive them. People behind this nonsensical show made Kenobi directly responsible for countless millions of lives Vader took from the moment he willingly pointlessly left him. Thank you Thor for making this kind of videos and being consistently logical. I love listening to you talk, you not onky have great perfect voice, but also a great perfect mind and thoughts. Thank you!

[@Mouserocksnerd]

Also, I think Disney's insistence against using the retconned EU really hurt them. There were so many great moments in those books with Ferus Olin and Obi-Wan that would have made for a much better storyline. Something about a book that took time, effort and research that just beats the writing going on of late.

[@LordHollow]

I would have had Obi try to kill him, but a squad of storm troopers save him in the nick of time... Then Vader kill them all on the way back to the ship. Consistent with both character's profiles.

[@Mark-nx9jy]

To be honest i can say I did enjoy this show, that was until i remembered about Obi Wan telling Luke he MUST kill Vader in rotj. Why does Obi Wan tell and desperately want Luke to kill Vader when it’s now known he had the chance to kill Vader himself???? It gives a selfish attitude that is not consistent with kenobis character, basically telling Luke , “I wouldn’t have been able to live with killing Vader/anakin but you’ll need to” Big plot hole imo, maybe something that can be explained in a s2. Eg Kenobi now lives with regret for not killing Vader, but I don’t think there’s enough content to show for a s2, and with kenobi being in higher hopes at the end of s1 taking him down another regret arc doesn’t make sense, so will probably remain a big plot hole

[@sivad1025]

That and the fact that Obi-Wan doesn't enforce the death sentence upon Reva. Obi-Wan is an old fashioned knight in the OT. The concept of killing evil people is _clearly_ portrayed as just and wise (even though they also show that mercy and compassion can save the day). I think we just have to accept that Disney is so beholden to progressive secularism that they are incapable of portraying heroes with more traditional views of morality

[@syrusterrigan9366]

Surely you're not suggesting that you'd like to give them *more* opportunities to destroy Star Wars characters! Right? Personally, I'm not interested in letting Disney add "necrophilia" to the list of heinous sins they've committed against what *was once* the world's greatest IP.

[@feliciadraws7371]

Again, just more evidence that this whole farce is just fanservice dialled up to 11, when we should have gotten a small-scale, intimate portrait of Obi-Wan as a character which focuses more on his inner struggles and trauma, a cerebral, psychological character study about a tormented man protecting the last hope of the galaxy, which done right would have been very intriguing, probably something like The Revenant(Aka the movie that got Leonardo Dicaprio his first Oscar). And heck, the fact that Obi-Wan and Vader meeting up again TWICE robs their rematch in A New Hope of it’s emotional weight, especially taking into account the lines “a presence I haven’t felt since…”, and “now I am the master”, which basically states that Vader and Obi-Wan never met again after the ending of Revenge of The Sith, it was only until their rematch on the Death Star that they saw each other.

[@SoundEngraver]

They didn't want Kenobi to be the hero he truly is.

[@cuoy13]

"I'll tell you half the story, the rest you fill it in. Long as the villain win." - Jay-Z (Dead Presidents 2)

[@AndreNitroX]

This is so thought provoking thor. I like my villains and heroes to be equally competent so they can go back and fourth in a tug of war of wits. As for the stormtrooper theory, this is why everyone who supported the Finn character, quickly turned against the sequels. Since this good idea to humanize a stormtrooper was flushed down the toilet. The stormtroopers might as well be robots, we never see them be anything but that. Accept Disney still uses them for jokes and kills them being murdered in creative ways????? I hate that.

[@kenwelsch393]

Reva should have died at the hands of three people. 1. Vader would never have let her live and letting her do so is completely out of character. 2. If Vader didn’t do it, the Grand Inquisitor would definitely have finished her. 3. Obi Wan would never have let her live, mercy aside. Obi Wans entire existence at this point is to do whatever he has to protect Luke and Leia. Letting her (and Vader) live completely compromises that single, solitary mission.

[@silverbullet1620]

Spaceballs the Movie. I want my Spaceballs the Flamethrower. And Spaceballs the Action Figures. And Spaceballs the T-Shirt. Moichendizing! Where the real money from the picture's made. "Spaceballs! Well Shit. There goes the planet."

[@talscorner3696]

I'd love to see an actual SW war movie, with armies doing actual army things and soldiers (including the bucketheads!) behaving like trained professionals should. Imagine what the Mando's would look like there...

[@PsychedelicDude]

Would love to hear your take on the no killing rule! Personally i can barely tolerate it

[@abandonallhope.1040]

No matter what, I am still sad to see this series come to an end. I miss George Lucas and the prequels so badly.

[@SteelerFan716]

There are some seriously mediocre aspects of the prequels that people seem to forget. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely *LOVE* the soundtracks of 1-3, but I also remember how underwhelming and bland much of the cinematography, sets, and dialogue were. It’s so weird to see people notice how bad the sequel trilogy is and think that makes the prequels better retroactively. To be honest, there are only 2 truly great Star Wars films: Star Wars (‘77) and Empire. 2 films that Lucas had the least to do with creatively (aside from world-building). The original cut of Star Wars ‘77 was saved in editing. Empire (arguably the absolute best of them all) was helmed by more competent people. I’m not saying you can’t love the prequels. I’m just trying to hold Star Wars to a higher standard so we can hit those highs from 1977 and 1980 again.

[@cacuevas]

@@SteelerFan716 Brainlet take

[@wun1gee]

I'm glad it came to an end before it could damage the continuity anymore...

[@wun1gee]

@@SteelerFan716 As underwhelming as the cinematography and dialogue of the prequels were, I'd take them over the crap we're getting on Disney+ any day. I prefer "I hate sand..." to Reva's "GRRRRR!!!!" any day. Or Vader's "Did you come here to destroy me?" after he literally followed Obi-Wan there...? And don't even get me started on the color pallets, shaky cam and over-exposure...

[@cacuevas]

@@wun1gee Prequels cinematography underwhelming? LMAO

[@joshualastine7666]

You absolutely hit the nail on the head as to why George did a Droid army for the prequels.

[@captaindc3889]

It depends on the writing, really

[@CH-ke9rm]

To be honest, I believe that the last duel should have ended with Vader thinking Obi-Wan did not survive the crushing of the boulders at the bottom the pit. It would allow Obi-Wan to escape when to coast was clear, Vader would not looking week, and give more meaning to Vader's line on the Death Star " A presence I haven't felt since..." Sure there is still the line before Obi-Wan's death in ANH about the Master but I can live with that inconsistency much more than letting Vader live and walking away. As far as Reva is concerned, as I commented in an earlier video, Obi-Wan dropped Maul with no issue in Rebels Twin Suns once he figured it out. He should have done the same with Reva redeemed or not (still not sure how she is) the risk was too great to let her go on doesn't make sense. At a minimum he should have mind tricked her to forget Luke - I could maybe accept that

[@jacobmetz3109]

I still can't figure out why, if there is force crush and Vader could literally keep a starship from taking off and ripping it apart, that Vader could not simply force crush or rip apart Obi Wan-or perhaps Obi Wan doing that to Vader

[@dw1419]

Now we have no reason that Vader couldn’t have just grabbed the millennium falcon to keep it from taking off any of the many times it barely escaped from him.

[@Ardejas]

Remeber when Obi-Wan used an innocent civilian, who offered him a ride, as a human shield? Ya.... 🤦‍♂️

[@obi-c-wan37king93]

Yes it's okay for a Jedi to kill in defense only never for attack. When Obi-Wan rescued Lea those Stormtroopers should have been attacking him to justify their deaths.

[@AndreNitroX]

🤦🏻

[@marklaurenzi1609]

Lightsabers work when needed. Stormtroopers, sure but it's hard. Reeva, not even twice. Vader, no prob.

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

The major problem is that this doesn’t translate well with what we know of Old Obi-Wan. He would have Luke kill his own father because he believes he’s completely lost, but he doesn’t kill him himself when he has the chance. Not only that, but Obi-Wan knows what Anakin has done, the evils he’s committed, and still sends his own son to assassinate him rather than do the deed himself. Why spare Vader? The only way the scene could’ve worked for me is if Obi-Wan didn’t know who Vader was until he cut open his helmet and saw/heard Anakin, the shock leaves him stunned and then something happens to separate them and the fight cannot be concluded. Vader doesn’t lose, Obi-Wan doesn’t win, it’s a stalemate that for whatever reason forces Obi-Wan to stay in hiding for the rest of his life.

[@miragewizard]

YES!! Great video! But instead of Spaceballs 3: The Search for Spaceballs 2, Mel should go with "Blazing Saddles 2: The Reva Bait & Switch"... I would pay real money to see that! Alright.. As River Song says in Doctor Who: **SPOILERS (for Star Wars Rebels) ** Time to discuss how I would have done this Kenobi series.. In Star Wars Rebels Season 4, the concept of a World Between Worlds was introduced, it being a plane of existence that transcends time and space. But instead of using this plane to see into the future or try to control it, there is another way to use it that Qui-Gon found: when a Jedi has become one with the Force (through physical death), their spirit can transcend the barrier between the mystic, or spiritual, and the physical, and thus appearing in the future to a pupil, loved one, or former master - someone whom the Jedi had a connection with who is still within the physical realm, and someone who would recognize the Jedi's presence. This plane of existence can only be accessed through the Force. Now Ahsoka used it to escape Vader, but she only dabbled into something that is so much greater. With that said, I would have made Kenobi a 25-episode series. The Pilot would have seen Kenobi checking in on Luke on Tatooine, and we found out how he found his hut and came to be in possession of it, located on the southwestern edge of the Dune Sea, about 136 kilometers from the Lars homestead. Obi-Wan makes a living as the Manager of the Anchorhead branch of Dex's Diner. Dexter Jettster had to move himself and his Diner from Coruscant once the Emperor took over. Once Obi-Wan confided in him about where he was going (the only person in the Galaxy other than Yoda and Senator Organa that knew), Dexter decided to secretly open a branch of his Diner at Anchorhead on Tatooine, where Obi-Wan (Ben) could remotely oversee business operations, have access to a stream of income if he needed it, and be able to keep tabs on the local bar master and cooks' business practices. But he would only occasionally drop in on the establishment, and more often than not, enjoy a Shawda club sandwich or a trademark Photon Fizzle as well. It was here, while in disguise as a patron, where he found out that Anakin was still alive, hunting down Jedi as Darth Vader. The Second episode would begin an arc that would encompass most of the rest of the season. At his hut on Tatooine, Obi-Wan delved into the training that Yoda had for him, that was discovered by his old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn. In this episode, we find out how Qui-Gon used the force to find the World Between Worlds once he passed, and how the Whills granted him knowledge of being able to commune with those who still lived within the physical dimension of time. So, throughout the course of the season, Obi-Wan communicates with Qui-Gon on various occasions, his old Master teaching him how to use this plane of existence for the good of those who are still alive, and how to learn truths about the past (but not change the past) as granted by the Whills. Obi-Wan is able to communicate with Yoda on Dagobah, and thus knows he's on Dagobah. Obi-Wan learns the fate of Mace Windu and many other Jedi, whether alive or dead. Obi-Wan is granted a special access to the Whills - to be within their presence during an episode - and finds out what that is like, and we are given a glimpse of how the Whills affected the turn of galactic events throughout history. We learn of the truth of the prophecy of the Chosen One, and how certain things cannot be revealed to Obi-Wan because he's not ready to receive it, but the chosen one and all of those implications is revealed to Master Yoda. We learn how the Light can be more powerful than the Dark Side, and how the Dark Side became so powerful at the culmination of the Rule of Two, and why the Sith gained control of the Galaxy once more. We see how Obi-Wan comes to peace with what happened through flashbacks with Anakin Skywalker, and Qui-Gon helps to guide him through that pain, Qui-Gon feeling personally responsible to a degree since he was persuaded that Anakin be trained. We see Jedi past, and learn that certain things are veiled to Obi-Wan and Yoda about Luke and Leia. The Bendu are explained in fuller detail in an episode. Obi-Wan is given an assignment by the Whills that he must complete; the Whills assuring him that Luke will be safe. It is a very difficult assignment that he will complete through the World Between Worlds. Once Obi-Wan finishes his assignment, we found out why he is beholden to his own point of view by the time of A New Hope, he speaks in riddles and he hardly can remember his own name - his own identity seems foggy to him by the time his assignment with the Whills is completed and his overall assignment with Luke is just beginning. And it's a wrap. Season Two? Lol.. Well, I suppose Season Two could begin on Alderaan, and we could see how a young girl grew up into a world of galactic political intrigue and how her perception of the galaxy changed with what is shared with her by her adopted parents and view of Alderaanian politics. Taking place solely on Alderaan, we learn how Bail Organa rose to power, and how the people of Alderaan became free of the need for obtaining wealth, having no need for an army or weapons, and how Alderaanian philosophy had an affect on galactic events and policy. We learn how people view Alderaan as they make stops at the Alderaanian space port, and discover the vast beauty of this gorgeous planet! We see how Leia finds her identity and inherits the mantle of leadership from her adopted father, and how she becomes involved with the Rebellion. And that's a wrap.

[@karstenfleck2385]

Actually I don't see an inconsistency in the character of Kenobi here. Those Stormtroopers were armed, so in principal it was a fight with an open end (althugh considering the difference in skill that would have had to be one very lucky shot from one of those stormtroopers) Vader on the other hand was not able to fight anymore at the end of both duels. So killing him would not have been a fair fight, but (from a jedi's perspective) murder. Also we need to consider that most of the series we are watching an Obi Wan who has lost his way. When he kills those stormtroopers he is very far from the jedi he was. So even if one argues that Obi Wan acts inconsistently this is part of a development from the lost jedi at the beginning of the series to the the wise master we saw in "a new hope".

[@barretoleandroariel]

If Kenobi killed Vader then Darth Sidius could have never been stopped. It obviously comes at face value like a stupid move but it's part of the grand duel of fates where Anakin's last moment os to save his son and end the emperor

[@Esvald]

I don't mind good guys killing bad guys as long as the 'boss' doesn't get a special treatment of a sob story and mercy.

[@kalzium8857]

I mean even the german star wars/star trek parody traumship suprise had more copetent villains than disney

[@aaroneclipse514]

It’s because the writers of these stories do not have high standards for making quality storytelling. Vader letting Reva live with her knowledge or letting Kenobi live in Ep3, or Obi-wan not “doing what he must” is impressively bad.

[@silverbullet1620]

Reeva is the Angry Black Woman. She's a walking stereotype. 'Nuff said.

[@davidshenett2465]

That line from Spaceballs was my high school yearbook quote lol

[@RogueFox2185]

By far the dumbest character was Bail Organa curtsy of the writing, he almost jeopardized the safety of his daughter, Obi-Wan, the Lars and Luke himself.

[@dereklopez9060]

At the end of Episode lll, Yoda, Obi-Wan and Bail Organa had an agreement to watch over the kids. Bail Organa takes Leia, while Obi-Wan takes Luke. And split them up. To protect them from their father, until the time comes and hope lives. In this show, Bail Organa apparently is an incompetent adopted father who couldn't even watch over Leia and let's her run off in the woods while the guards just stood there and do nothing. He also acted way to demanding when he asked Obi-Wan for help rescuing Leia after he said "No". When it's not even his responsibility to begin with. If anything, they could've had Bail Organa at least say... "Very well, Obi-Wan. I understand you have your duty to follow, and I shall follow mine. May the force be with you."

[@RogueFox2185]

@@dereklopez9060 Not to mention even if for some reason that he could not trust any bounty hunter or the Empire to help him find his kid (even though he has a good amount of power in the imperial senate) Asoka is still active in this time period slowly organizing Rebel Cells, there is NO reason why Bail wouldn’t at least try to seek her out since he knows that Obi-Wan’s only priorities should be watching out for Luke and his training in the force. But of course to Bail and how Disney Star Wars views it: “It’s not about the boy and you know it!” 🤦🏿‍♂️

[@zrally2107]

Light saber to the chest goes bouncy bouncy. Slap the helmet, instant K.O.

[@anakinthighwalker1836]

The 2 stormtroopers with the Zillo Beast armor that got so hilariously bonked by obi indeed shows he's not living up to the jedi code. But what's funny is that in episodes 4 ANH before he shuts down the tractor beam on the death star, he managed to, yup, avoid killing the patrolling stormtroopers and does a force trick. I'm positive the writers re-watched Ep.3 & 4 whilst on their phone half of the time.

[@nfineon]

There are no dumb and inconsistent heros, only dumb and inconsistent writers.

[@Outisx777]

Star Wars theory and Den of Nerds said they would be willing to collab for one video if the opportunity presents itself. I hope you’re willing Thor Skywalker!!

[@Lord-Emperor-Vader]

If you have not watched Spaceballs go watch it. Spaceballs is a great parody of Star Wars.

[@gunroswell2706]

Use a blaster with stun setting instead. Perhaps there should be some similar setting on the lightsaber as well? But all that killing just for the sake of it leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth. at least this one’s.🙃 That was my one problem with the Clone Wars as well, all those wasted clones...

[@ABxx2011]

As a kid I actually thought stormtroopers were robots until I saw those two on the Death Star in ANH engaging in a little idle chat. Then they never did anything like that again.

[@YChromosome99]

"I must do as I must." DO what,Obi-Wan???? Kill Vader? Oh wait. That can't be it 🤔

[@casper662]

I, for one, think that this series could have been fantastic if they actually studied the main characters (Obi-Wan and Darth Vader) and enhanced them in a way that you could watch the prequels then the series, then the originals seamlessly and they would compliment each other. Kind of like how Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad enhance eachother. I would have Obi-Wan NOT learn that Anakin was alive until he slashed Vader's helmet in the "Rematch of the Century". Shocked, confused and mortified, Obi-Wan then gets stabbed in the guy by Vader and thrown off a cliff, Vader thinks he's dead, Qui-Gon appears as a Force Ghost to Obi-Wan and gives some motivational guidance and Obi-Wan leaves to get healed. It's one plot hole I think would've been fixed, in a show apparently riddled with holes.

[@spacephantomranger]

funny thing back when i was a kid and the first star wars movie came out i actually thought the stormtroopers were robots. im not sure when i made the connection that they were guys in suits ( i think maybe my dad told me) but im almost positive that george did this on purpose. faceless enemys.

[@Dragondan1987]

I don't think Stormtroopers as a whole are evil or necessarily bad people. We forget sometimes that the Empire was more than the side we saw in the movies. They did stop criminals and while we can pretend they didn't do good, they probably fought many battles and small wars where they were in the right. They did maintain the peace in a lot of the inner worlds. Most are probably good people forced into the army or joined to give themselves better lives and protect people they cared about. Like Luke wanted to join the Empire early in the first movie, and if the droids hadn't shown up, might of done it.

[@damonwade6591]

Obi wan- lets vader live Obi wan in the OT- "Luke you gotta kill his ass"

[@cjcrrazy]

The confrontation should have finished with Obi believed to be dead under a pile of rocks, which I thought was happening. Then we wouldn’t have the inconsistencies to follow.

[@x-winger9387]

The hits just keep coming. Why is it so hard to write good Star Wars?

[@some1namedno1]

The first thing that occurred to me after Obi-Wan let Vader live the second time, is that he is now 100% responsible for the obliteration of Alderaan.

[@GrechStudios]

While Kenobi letting Anakin live as a “still defeated padawan in spirit” plays well into the “I was but the learner, now I am the master” line, it probably made more sense in-universe for him to off Vader. (Imagine if Lola recorded the incident and leaked Kenobi granting mercy. That could play out as a very incriminating scandal to people who saw that later...). Anyway, I don’t quite agree that Vader going on being evil lies too heavily on Kenobi. Vader admits that he killed Anakin, not Kenobi. In the same vein, Vader is the evil one, not Kenobi. I totally understand your argument, Thor. And I agree that if it weren’t for the meta-condition of the originals, Kenobi should have killed Vader (Sith Lords are his speciality, right?). But I don’t know to what extent Kenobi really bares the blame for Vader’s continued crimes.

[@bramderacourt9499]

My big problem in trying to write stuff like this, besides the fact that I have to quadruple-check it often since I'm not that clever myself to begin with, is that people in reality rarely make the most sensible or smart decision, and having characters do do on the page always feels a bit unnatural. Yet since a level of competence is evidently required, how do you let your characters make mistakes or have lapses in judgement in a sensible manner?

[@Imhotep397]

In the Mace Windu novel Shatterpoint a lot of the questions of ethicality of the Jedi are explained and simplified in a way that makes sense. The Jedi are NOT arbiters of Truth and Morality. As it’s explained in Shatterpoint attempting to be a moral paragon is more likely to drive one to the darkside (and has done so.). When one’s personal idea of morality is self-oriented or similar group oriented specifically and exclusively/primarily decisions are made in the interest of the self and the associated group. The Jedi approach simply chooses an action based on what the best practical solution/outcome for a given scenario is. Kenobi wasn’t saving Leia to save a little girl he was saving a person could potentially eliminate Vader and/or Sidious to improve the Star Wars Galaxy. Obi-Wan couldn’t kill Annakin because he could see that it was Annakin, the same kid he raised, no matter how brainwashed. Who could murder their own son or brother in cold blood?

[@Imhotep397]

@dflowers30 It makes Obi-Wan look human. What you and some others wanted...that wasn’t going to happen. The headshot was supposed to be the kill shot. Then Obi-Wan saw Anakin’s face. If the mask was still blocking his face Obi-Wan likely could have killed him. Keep in mind this is the whole reason (humanity) Luke was never told Vader was his father.

[@Jade-fg1vq]

Spaceballs was awesome such a great parody film alongside Young Frankenstein

[@chrisg1043]

The way I see it is the stormtroopers were people he didn’t know plus they were trying to stop him from completing his mission when he cuts them down, while Vader is his old friend and brother Anakin turned dark. Even if Vader killed off Anakin and there wasn’t anything left of him, it’s still the shell of what once was. I don’t think Obi-Wan could finish him off (he says as much in Revenge of the Sith). Is it the best argument? No. But it makes it work enough in my mind as I’ve seen it plenty (the whole killing those who stand in your way) in real life for it to make enough sense.

[@danielkimoto1008]

“They May Be Willing To Die, But I Am Not Going To Be The One Who Kills Them.” - Ahsoka

[@StickNik]

What's even worse is he uses the truck driver as a human shield in episode 3.

[@ethanmikos985]

I think something people seem to overlooking the fact that Vader was not in any way shape or form 100 percent helpless in episode six. Vader had all of his limbs, his lightsaber, and still had command of the force. And Vader had just said “the same way I will destroy you”. Vader’s life support may have been damaged, but that didn’t mean he was helpless. Now I realize Vader is overconfident to a fault, but in that scenario I really think Vader had a way of turning the tables on Obi Wan, and I think Obi Wan realized that. Pus the disturbance in the force Kenobi felt earlier on the fleeing ship was also probably in the back of his mind. Obi Wan made a calculated choice not to go for the kill solely because Vader was far from defenseless at that point. He still had a responsibility to watch ensure Leia got home and to make sure the disturbance he felt didn’t effect Luke.