The History of Fire with Stephen J. Pyne

[@worm_vaquero]

Many plants here in California depend upon fire to germinate it's seeds, fire ecology.

[@michaelbunswick2218]

Love this conversation 🔥

[@SacredHearthFrictionFire]

Great video Rune - what a privilege speaking with Dr Fire! and thanks for the mentions! 🔥 Ian

[@jegavin]

Great interview- thank you!

[@wildmountainechoes6796]

Thank you for sharing such an interesting interview!

[@jordanaz]

Love this

[@magnusdahlgren3461]

What mr Stephen J. Pyne is actually referring to when he talk about Linneus is the ancient agricultural technique called "Slash-and-Burn Agriculture." And it was used very heavily in old Sweden, especially in forested areas since it was an affordable way for poor people/villagers to get a little extra. This technique produces very, extremely, fertile soil (called "Swidden" in English) - but at the same time it destroys it. It is only possible to use the soil a few seasons (2, 3, 4 perhaps), and then it is left to return to forest. So, when Linneus wrote about the agricultural techniques, and the parts about "Fire" (Sash-and-Burn) was exchanged to information about manure. Probably because it wasn't a modern agricultural technique, and probably the "learned men" around Linneus felt embarrassed about it, because poor people still used these old, ineffective techniques, instead of the modern ones. In parts of Sweden they still practiced this technique up to the 19th century, especially before the Great Nation Wide agricultural revolution when everyone more or less was forces to both leave their old villages to live alone on their new fields, and only use modern agricultural techniques. Thats why there are no medieval villages left in Sweden: So, really it had nothing to do with any "spiritual belief systems about Fire," as Rune seems to believe. It was only an embarrassing old and low class agricultural technique. They didn't wanted the whole wide world to know that something that old and that low class was still practiced in the so very "modern and advanced Sweden" that could produce brilliant minds like Linneus. But, there might be at least some kind of connection with "old beliefs" around this "Slash-and-Burn Technique", since "they" used to theorize about if the Swedish name for it might have something to do with the name for the country - Sweden". I.e. The Swedish word for "Slash-and-Burn Agriculture" is "Svedjebruk", and "Svedje" is really similar to "Sverige." I have read about this belief in a book written in 1804, written by a Swedish subject to the Swedish king, who came from Swedish Pommerania (in Northern Germany, and was Swedish up until 1825). Anyways, he talked Swedish fluently, as an educated man, and a subject of the Swedish crown, and he traveled through Sweden, in the year 1804 and he wrote a book about it, his experiences. And he commented about the "Slash-and-Burn Agriculture" he witnessed in the heavily wooded area between the two largest lakes of Sweden (Tiveden).

[@NordicAnimism]

Thanks a lot for this interesting and informative contribution. Let me just say to things in my own defence. 1)slash-and-burn farming is not the same thing as indigenous land management by fire. I'll put another link here to a aboriginal Australian guy whose practice is closer to what we are taking about 2) the term "spiritual" is not well applied on how I am thinking about this. Rather think traditional knowledge. And that can very much be there in seemingly very mundane practices. - Would be interesting to learn if there were ecologically beneficial aspects of traditional Swedish as slash and burn - I am just speculating - perhaps those depleted soils would return to forest in a way that could actually benefit biodiversity, like it would be the case in Australia. I am not saying it is necessarily the case. My impression is that in the Amazon slash and burn almost leaves a desert

[@NordicAnimism]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ml6cmaB7nq1raJosi=3BPCeLLLIpDbItM4

[@magnusdahlgren3461]

@@NordicAnimism It was seen as a huge waste of resources already "back then" (the time of Linneus, and after), but it was the poor mans agriculture, and it was done in the "no man lands" of Sweden - i.e. they really didn't had any developed forest management ideas back then. Ideas like that first started in Germany, and the Swedish tree industry (or what ever it is called in English ... ) became "a thing" first in the later part of the 19th century. If you are interested in the history of the Swedish Forest (Forest Culture, history, industry, and management - from way back to present day), you perhaps want to read the book "Träd - en vandring I den svenska skogen," by the scanian historian Gunnar Wetterberg - known from the Swedish TV-show "Fråga Lund," if you have seen it. He also have written a huge historical exposé over the Scanian history (something that might interest a dane, like you, also). So, there were really no ecological benefits. After just a few seasons the soil was depleted, but still bare. The first things to started to grow was the berries of the woods (Lingonberries and Blueberries, and so on. Then the regrowth of "everything else" took over and nothing useful could come from that piece of land until the trees had reclaimed it. Because of that they shifted from place to place all the time. The first agricultural practice in southern Scandinavia was this "Slash-and-Burn agriculture" and it was used to the extreme. All the forests practically disappeared and that part of Scandinavia was free of forests for thousands of years - and when they learned how to value different soils, they stayed around the most fertile areas (the plains), and they didn't saw any new forests until about 500 years ago only (when the nobles started to keep their own Hunting Forests by their castles and palaces. The Viking Age left some forests in the south eastern part of Scania, that were recolonized first during the coming of christianity and the building of "church villages." About the aboriginal version of burning, I believe that it had more to do with trying to cultivate the valuable trees, and give them more room to grow than if left by themselves (the surrounding trees might starve them of sunlight, for example, and the people only wanted a certain kind of trees). Thats how they did it in North America at least. I really don't know about the Australians, so I cannot comment on their part. But perhaps you have heard about the old "Finns" that practiced this Slash-and Burn technique. They were called "Svedje-Finnar," as you might have heard about, and they spread all around Scandinavia, even as far down south as "Småland" (just above "Scania" you know). And the dear professor of yours, Dr. Fire, you should have applauded him for his unusually perfect pronunciation of the Scandinavian language (like "Skåne" - a hard word for foreigners as you know, etc."

[@mattias5157]

Very interesting video as always. One thing I don´t understand though is why we should define Grandfather fire as a non living entity. If life is about having consciousness, the animistic idea to my understanding is that everything in nature has life. I live in Chiapas in southern Mexico and have had the opportunity to participate quite a lot in fire ceremonies, in Mexico as well as in Guatemala. I just want to chip in with the fact that the Grandfather fire in the native American cultures that I have been in touch with, is represented by the Spider, and that it´s seen above all as a weaver. Until the building of the tower of Babylon that modern society represents, our societies were horizontally organized with the sacred fire in the centre. In charge of the fire was the woman, so it naturally became a matriarchy, one could say. So the sacred fire and it´s place in the middle of society, with the woman in charge of it, also has extremely wide ramifications about societal organizations and gender roles... Just saying.

[@TheMassweapon]

Great interview!

[@K_E_Robin]

🧡🔥🧡

[@newKnowingNetwork]

so in similar ways that we externalized our internal respiration as fire and use it to change the environment, we externalized our ability to transfer information with our dna as language to change culture? or is that mixing ideas?

[@newKnowingNetwork]

When he began speaking about how the fire is no longer visible around us it made me think of how Nate Hagens speaks about energy blindness on his "The Great Simplification" podcast.

[@kirkha100]

@@newKnowingNetworkThanks for mentioning Nate Hagens. I’ve been looking at the “zeroth law of Thermodynamics and thermal equilibrium. Much to think about.

[@pelof82]

funny how he referred to personifying the elements as "stupid" ....is he aware of who he's talking to? XD that aside, I'm aware that people don't have to agree on everything in order to have a fruitful discussion, which this was.

[@BruceWaynesaysLandBack]

Modular Nuclear for a local community could be brought into relation, with respect given for where the unit came from, and where the uranium came from. If we’re in the business of respecting/saving all life, nuclear seems like just another tool in the tool belt Edit: 49:51 and yes the torture of humans as well