The History of Total War Naval Battles

[@stuff9680]

Empire really should be remastered

[@franciscovieiradebem2700]

Noooo, they would split the nations into cultural packs that you would have to buy separately

[@karlleonis7882]

YES! Easily my favorite part of the franchise.

[@Nightfire-ui9zu]

not remastered just empire 2

[@grissgrass2349]

SAMURAI hopefully with africa, south america and asia

[@jauntyangle5667]

The best TW game ever made............when they finish it.

[@Vince-tt1uj]

Naval battles were amazing in gunpowder games, they could be good in Rome 2 and Attila if they tried to fix the bugs. I want naval battles back, but not as low effort shit.

[@Dart2223]

Agree with you, but even if rome 2 or atilla have great naval battles i still wouldn't have played them. For me is only fun with gunpowder.

[@skush9146]

That is the problem with CA. They try out these things like Naval battles, population, etc. But then it doesn't really work out; but instead of fixing it and changing it for the better they always decide to cut the content since it is so much easier. Same with the one feature I miss the most from games like ME2. Moving single units without a general.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

Skush population was freakin great what are you on about. They had that one down, they just chose to scrap it unnecessarily because... reasons?

[@TheBlackfall234]

Honestly i didnt enjoy naval battles at all, but in empire they were actually really good. Like "naval is the third big part of the game now" good. In every other total war they were basically meh, for different reasons. I just dont enjoy boarding/ramming fests wich at least in rome 2 and attila it was just that.

[@datuputi777]

Honestly reading about lokhir fellheart in warhammer gave me a nerd boner about Fantasy naval battles.

[@kapitankapital6580]

Total War should stop with annual releases. It just means games are rushed, teams are split up and features get dropped as a result.

[@kurojima]

but the money! think of the shareholders (which btw are their actual customers/focus group), we are just the consuming cattle

[@Starocean980]

Almost every series I see get annualized like this suffers the same thing. Cut content, less polish or other quality issues. Watching this video, everything from the dwindling quality of the naval battles leading to outright removal to the inconsistent excuses made by the devs just reminded me of what's happened to the Pokemon games on the whole. I hate that the annual strategy seems to pay off too, going by sales and the people that will staunchly defend the devs for cutting features and simplifying mechanics that should be more fleshed out.

[@Spartansareawesome11]

This is made by a separate team acquired recently so I mean, there's no harm...

[@banger2998]

Look at rockstar they never rush any of their games they take their time, and therefore every game they release is a masterpiece. It’s great

[@kapitankapital6580]

@@banger2998 yeah, if only they took a little bit more time so they don't have to force their staff to work under such incredibly difficult conditions.

[@DeepJJ1269]

I can already sea it: *Total War: Pacific Warfare* CA: “We are not putting any ship combat because we feel it will be creatively detrimental to our vision for this game”

[@ksanbahlyngwa1998]

Might as well call it Auto Resolve Total War

[@criarinobr2682]

Total War: Pacific theater Featuring the USA x JPN war in WW2 CA: "We are not including naval combat because there are few historical entries of naval warfare of the time"

[@JarlFrank]

Every naval encounter turns into a land battle, so basically you play Iwo Jima 500 times in a row.

[@bknramski]

"I can already *sea* it" I saw what you did there...

[@Cholimao]

Those people never Knew the excitment of trying to capture The Black Ship with bows and Katanas and not losing your entire fleet. Shamefur Dispray¡

[@Sojju7]

Sureimufur dispurei

[@KeiwaM]

Oh god, that was hell. I've had full fleets of bow kobayas, firebomb throwers and heavy bunes get decimated by this.

[@Aethgeir]

One of the highlights of Shogun 2 for me! I ended up blocking it in with heavy bunes and repeatedly boarding it. But once you have it, naval engagements become trivial! Then there was that time I built an entire fleet of nanban trade ships, because for some strange reason they forgot to cap that unit!

[@auroraborealissaltmineswarlord]

bit late reply but.... wehen that thing gets away from a fleet of nanban trade ships it almost decimated... the pain

[@Trapsarentgay133]

That’s why I become a Christian and buy the nanban trade ship lol

[@R3GARnator]

I love naval battles. I hate how people on r/total war make excuses for their exclusion saying they were never good in the first place.

[@kielweiss3606]

Bc r/totalwar is where the fanboys shills are all at. That's why CA ignores their forums and can almost exclusively be found on reddit.

[@Drakyry]

r/totalwar is totally controlled by CA's PR managers. It's so sloppy not even r/politics could compete

[@JHorsti]

Oh boy, you haven't seen r/Star Trek yet.

[@aces1237]

What is /r/TotalWar if not just a place where Warhammer fanboys can circlejerk?

[@alanvitorj.b.fragamoreira7668]

There's a reason CA only cares about Reddit's opinions, it's the only place where they can do no wrong.

[@LegendofTotalWar]

Extremely well made video. Learnt a few things I didn't know and confirmed some things I had always suspected.

[@RepublicOfPlay]

Thanks! 🙏

[@uioongbion2074]

@@RepublicOfPlay Loved watching your paradox videos didn't know you were a team member

[@Kristaliorn]

@@uioongbion2074

[@iagoporto5522]

Legend, you grumpy aussie hobbit!

[@emorsi]

Very well made video for sure. And, gosh, would I love to play Warhammer Naval Battles... The Dreadfleet... wow... The Black Arc... amazing. The Empire Fleet, there are soooo many cool things. Magic and the High Seas, maybe underwater monsters, commanded by a faction. Dragons on board which takes flight and attack vessels in the vicinity. Endless options and possibilities here available. I would pay easy 50 to 60 for it.

[@HermesSonofZeus]

Thank you for doing this. Maritime archaeologist here. Would love to see the return of navel battles to Total War.

[@Aregon972]

Thank you for doing this! A youtubing thankisit here. Would love to see the return of thenk yuo to comment section.

[@MeKaNiNjA8]

WOW, even after all these years of playing Empire, and looking at the crews in all of these battles, I never noticed that the captain often climbs the mast and watches the battle. Despite its game-play flaws, Empire's still one of my favorite titles next to Medieval 2 and Rome 1.

[@sajt6619]

Wow, totally same here. Even up to the total war titles I like xD

[@deego237]

same here!

[@jakebrowncollection1772]

I'd say a big reason to have naval in Troy total war is the fact it's called Troy, the game is based around a city which was attacked by a Greek naval invasion of 1000 ships.

[@kurojima]

and its around the mediteranean sea, you know, probably the most important and decisive mass of f***ing water around the place, but no, i am sure the illiad and odyssey are all just as good without any water

[@kalengrahler1]

Also the line about there being insufficient documents about that combat tactics is a line of crap. How can you do Troy justice without naval battles. The navy was an integral part of that era.

[@KnightofAges]

On the other hand, the combined Achaean navy was so big that there is precisely no mention whatsoever of any naval engagements during the Trojan war (and Homer is pretty descriptive regarding the navies and armies involved). The whole affair was a land siege - it is very likely that the Trojan navy avoided any combat.

[@rorystockley5969]

They got there in 1000 ships, but they didn't do any fighting on the sea. All the battles in the books are on land.

[@codysellers5358]

@@rorystockley5969 As I add a unit of Sirens into my land army, that should be able to fly and have wings, only appear once in the book briefly. CA-lets make them a ranged combat unit that fights well in the forest oh yeah and no wings or flying. I'm not saying they needed to live by the books, i'm more interested in a fun game. Fighting at sea would have been fun as hell especially considering that there is like 40 Greek water deities they could've implemented. Tons of stuff they could've worked with. I mean Charybdis being called into a naval battle that you thought you were going to win so you have to call on Brizo to rescue the soldiers you lost at sea potentially scattering them across the map, or Galene to calm the seas to keep what you have left. I guess i'll take Sirens who never fought with any armies in the books and bears no resemblance to the books or historical depictions and cut out the flying ability they had. While i appreciate the old historical total war titles much more than the fantasy, magic, hero type stuff. Troy and Greek mythos truly deserved something far better than what they have produced and its a bitter irony its released on the Epic games store cause its awful compared to the Homeric Epic that was passed down to us.

[@Groundpenguin]

I don't think we will see Total War games with the level of details the ones from Empire up to Shogun 2 had. Example, the black powder weapons in TWW don't even have reload animations.

[@blankname2026]

“Developers can do other things instead” Lol this is a total war saga. You really think they are putting any real effort into Troy.

[@alanvitorj.b.fragamoreira7668]

They've already shown that unit variety is going to be terrible in Troy, it's going to have the worst land battles in the whole franchise, calling it now.

[@const1988]

What we really need is Italian wars Saga. Or American civil war Saga. I dont wont to pay for hiding in horse.

[@asriellian]

@@const1988 I reckon doing a pike and shot era Total War would be really interesting

[@gabrieleseveroni]

@@const1988 I think the problem with an American Civil War game would be faction variety, but an Italian one could be cool with all the small different kingdoms/republics/etc.. (but it's gonna need naval battles because I'm not gonna play Venice without his fleet)

[@kapitankapital6580]

Troy could well be the worst Total War game yet. I know I'm not gonna buy it.

[@theRandolfski]

I am realising the madness of how the naval battles have literally deteriorated in quality.(or stagnated) Started 10/10 with Empire and have stayed much the same until post-shogun with a sharp decline. From your decisive overview I would say they have gotten somewhat lazy and simply neglected naval battles perhaps feeling they just were not that important. We have been waiting on this video for a few weeks and I feel it has been worth the wait. Great job DazzaLad/Mr RoP/Leader of Dolfski’s Mad Lads. ****also never had this opportunity before so have to take it **** FIRST

[@Chordus_Gaius]

Well Player.

[@Knoloaify]

Rather than lazyness, I think that the obvious reason why they don't do it is because they want to release games every year. Which lead them to divide their staff into multiple teams and have tighter schedules. It's well known at this point that a yearly release schedule result in less complex games that only marginally improve upon the earliest iterations. Case in point : They took more time to release Warhammer and it's their most unique game to date, even though it could have used a bit more time so rhat they could make actual naval battle.

[@theRandolfski]

Quality over quantity, always.

[@reutermo]

Empire navals battle were shite though, and it only became worse after that. Battles with more than a handful ships make it nearly impossible to control it and it just turn into chaos. And the battles have nothing to do with the core battle experience and just feels like a tacked on minigame.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

Empire was more 6-7/10, napoleon would be one better. I think FotS were the best battles but they lacked the campaign context to make them seem as significant

[@Poctyk]

Coming soon: "Total War: World War 2" Naval battles are autoresolve only. When asked why, CA states that Naval battles in said time period were not important anyways. And of course idiots on forums will find dozens of excuses why it is true.

[@sib113]

*pacific* cough

[@rmcguire7033]

Submarines

[@Goramann]

Great work on collecting all that information and presenting it in a conscise and visually appealing manner. The work you put into these is not going unnoticed.

[@kasinokaiser1319]

I always secretly wished that drowning crew members could attempt to climb back to allied ships and replenish that ship's crew in small numbers

[@joaopedroalves6777]

I liked to imagine some of them were rescued off screen.

[@kasinokaiser1319]

João Pedro Alves Idk why but it gets to me when I see them stop struggling and fall underwater

[@DiplexHeated]

Great video!

[@tails18boy]

His not oblivious to the ship sinking, it's just that he can't believe he is in that hoorible naval gameplay. It's how he feels... It's how I feel sometime

[@MrMighty147]

Ah yes, the age old reason why good game series become shit: Annualization.

[@vukashin88]

Corporatization.

[@ImOblivious]

Annualization is why I never got back into it. I played a shit ton of Rome, then fell off the wagon after I heard how buggy Rome 2 was. Now I just see these annual entries and I don't look at any of them as possible entries that live up to the standard set for me.

[@TheAurelianProject]

I fucking hate corporations they ruin everything

[@victuz]

@@TheAurelianProject Capitalism at it's finest.

[@LordVader1094]

@@ImOblivious Not to mention how much it costs to actually keep up with them.

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

Excellent video. My view on naval battles is that even simplistic ones add variety to the game. Which could be even more appreciated now that sieges have gone downhill in the franchise.

[@strato9889]

These 30 minutes sure passed quickly ! Great video, I love your work, and I hope content like this will continue in the future ! RoP is a greatly underviewed channel.

[@spartanvi3888]

Unpopular opinion, but I really liked Shogun 2 naval battles the most. The dramatic shift from bow kobayas to gun powder (e.g. Nanban ship) was really rewarding, and I loved micro'ing the ships with activated abilities (e.g. mines).

[@DIY_Miracle]

The sheer variety in Shogun 2 was exactly what appealed to me about Rome and Attila's ship battles.

[@Flavius-Timasius]

++++, same story, I don't fan of Japan at all, but hell, it was Soo good

[@iamplay797]

cool upload, I'm one of the crazy ones who always enjoyed naval battles the more features in a game the better always

[@WortWortWortHog]

I've been away and missed a lot of content but this was a great video Darren! The analysis and presentation were spot on! More people need to see this. Makes me want to go play some Empire again thats for sure.

[@RepublicOfPlay]

Thanks - Share it around! A random post to a forum helps a lot!

[@boyesjoe-joe5587]

Really enjoyed that. I would love to see future videos in this style, taking a birds-eye view of aspects of the Total War series across the different entries.

[@Priyo866]

Empire and Napoleon have the best representation of sail-era naval warfare in the *entire gaming history* hands down. Shogun 2 FotS comes close but the ships are too fast and explode too early.

[@MrCarlWax]

They are making another one? They truly have become Activision of strategy games

[@nathanielhinz4946]

Ever think about a Total War Renaissance Game? starting in the mediterranean with the Ottomans on one side Spain the Papal States the HRE on the other. The Battle of Lepanto? The beginning of gunpowder weapons with Gun carrying Galleys, and Galleasses ending up with Great Ships and Galleons capable of traversing vast oceans.

[@Ataximander]

In Shogun 2 this just made me go straight to Christianity and get them sweet gaijin boats they have.

[@onestupidboi9320]

yea the nanban trade ship, that thing was awesome, can't believe he didn't mention it

[@Gokaes]

@@onestupidboi9320 they are op, i played in multiplayer they wreck the hell out of the ones not having them

[@KaiservonKrieger]

@@onestupidboi9320 The nanbans? I haven't even fathomed to use them as warships since I just thought they were just regular old trade ships. What were they op for?

[@onestupidboi9320]

@@KaiservonKrieger cannons and muskets

[@devilman2197]

@@onestupidboi9320 plus they act as trade ship for the node so Xtra money

[@lekaiev]

20:55 Rome II in a nutshell. "Okay that looked coo...oh it's clipping in the other ship. Well that's excu...annnnd it crashed"

[@Tejmaster1]

Late to the party but a video dedicated to "Trade" in total war would also be really interesting.

[@mausklick1635]

They don't have the resources... yeah, sure.

[@rafaelrmaier]

@Nicolas M yet they have record sales on annual releases. There is definitely money coming in

[@InternetMameluq]

@@rafaelrmaier record sales or record profit? Not rhetorical, btw.

[@phillipharrison8463]

Too busy making paid DLC and I suspect they know if they brought in paid DLC naval battles there would be a backlash

[@Aragon1500]

Sega is going under so they aren't getting publisher money

[@Starocean980]

They just don't want to spend the resources because they don't have to. The games sell well even while cutting the naval battles, as evident by TW1-2 and 3K. That and the annual release rush job means cuts to content and/or quality in most cases too.

[@alcoolamus4208]

I was waiting for this video, I wasn't deceived ! Really loved it, and the Rome 2 part is hilarious with these bugs

[@KiLLkInGLiOn]

21:01 Not sure if that is a joke or real. But how you represent that crashing is funny AF XD

[@woableattack2990]

I really loved the fact that rome 2 made it possible to intercept a giant transport fleet with a handfull of actual warships and just completely wreck an entire land army that way.

[@123456gordon]

Very well done video, dude. And great video for the "NaVaL BAttLEs wErE NeVEr GOoD aNYwaYS" crowd. Basically, naval didn't die. Naval was killed by CA themselves. Are they going to tell me that gunpowder is what makes naval awesome, and that's why it was so good only in Empire/Napoleon? The level of detail has nothing to do with the time period, they dumbed it down because they wanted to. And now they are happy to axe the feature because people point them the obvious. I'm also glad you mentioned the whole Warhammer naval myth that a lot of people keep believing. Same with the blood packs, it has nothing to do with PEGI ratings.

[@Kristaliorn]

The wait has been soo worth it! Fantastic insight!

[@chrisstanton70]

I remember one time in Empire where i saw a fleet of two ships holding the straight of Gibraltar, so I sent my big fleet of ships thinking it would be an easy win. Those two ships wiped out my entire fleet lol.

[@hiachi4768]

8:26 "one of the compliments of Empire's naval battles was that it was often the bigger navy that won" Legend of total war: Hold my fifth rates.

[@christophmahler]

"it was often the bigger navy that won" Yeah, that would have been the impression if the feature was not _explored_ by players, _unfit_ _for_ _the_ _high_ _seas_ . Features ( _arguably_ 'exploits') like frigate raiding and 'zones of control' around 'constructable fortifications' - which could even be upgraded to epic proportions - radically changed my perspective of the product. Despite it's _technical_ problems, it strikes me as the most well _designed_ installation of the series in regard to _gameplay_ . It really managed to _reenact_ the *'revolution'* of _modern_ _warfare_ for players who were used to the mechanics of 'TW Rome I' ('TW Medieval II' appeared to me as a mere _graphical_ update).

[@Mantis42]

Pls stop italicizing.

[@christophmahler]

@@Mantis42 "Pls stop italicizing." Does it make You bending Your head?...

[@lolasdm6959]

No actually it was which ever side had the most rocket ships won.

[@enlightenedterrestrial]

There's still no hotseat mode and thus no possibility to play with multiple players over a longer period by sending save files to each other. That was biggest fun about Medieval 2.

[@Naraku-no-Hana-WE]

This is an excellent video with a well stated conclusion, I certainly couldn't have said it better myself. Btw my favorite Rome 2 naval bug was introduced later on by the patches that had landing crafts depart after depositing troops. On some rare occasions a ship will row up to disembark, stop right in front of the landing spot, and then pull away without depositing its troops. It will then depart the map. As it reaches the map boundary with its full compliment the troops will collide with the map boundary, shoving them off the boat and into the water to their demise. As the boat is departing you are not able to command it or prevent it from rowing away. Any troops that perish this way will be lost in campaign as well. Fortunately, even as the ship departs you are still able to order it to withdraw. Doing so will count as the ship routing and your troops will not be shoved off the deck. You can't use them for the battle but they will survive in campaign.

[@TheDethBringer666]

The removal of naval battles from the series just highlights how much of a cynical cash-grab its become.

[@christmascactus1882]

It really feels like CA gave up after Rome II didn't work out as they hoped. I suspect SEGA intervened as well. New releases make more money than bug fixes. So instead of making an ambitious game like Rome II, that might require work over time, they just settle for a smaller titles with the potentially buggy parts completely cut to avoid negative reviews. Ofcourse there's the DLC overload but that's another discussion.

[@RafaSheep]

Amazing work on this video, pretty much a documentary. Glad you included the Harpax vid I linked you.

[@saphyrion4257]

omg you even mentioned the Roman corvus! This video is great, thanks for your work!

[@coldblowcode]

Great video, really highlights how often these games are coming out, and often under cooked. I feel like they need to take a few years to really hone and make the next good total war game.

[@phigu198]

A great video and fantastic editing for sure. Increible how much a feature with such a bombastic start degraded into a sorry mess and eventually disappeard. Hopefully this isnt indicative of the franchise as a whole.

[@Greatdictator]

Ever since the first Rome i thought Naval Battles would be FUCKIN awesome, was so happy to see them for the first time in Empire. I personally never thought that they would actually go BACKWARDS in terms of gameplay options especially since they already had the tech , the only game i could have said potentially ''yeah okay '' was Total Warhammer 1 but .....im just really dissapointed since naval warfare is always a cool thing when 2 big navies collide in order to break a port or have the navy help with the siege of a naval city or town. SO dissapointed in CA along with other reasons. I do hope for the inevitable MEDIEVAL 3 they bring it back but i dont have high hopes. Good video my dude.

[@deckerwilliam7463]

so basically total war naval combat is evolving, just backwards

[@RussellStudiosUSA]

I replayed the part when they were YEETING themselves off the boat about 900 times

[@ThePenitentOne]

This is a really good video, i never even realize this problem existed but damn.... Keep it up.

[@yokoyamataichi1785]

I loved the Empire naval battles... Its been 10 years and AI has improved greatly. Perhaps, its time for us to deserve an Empire 2?

[@Unitedmc]

I don't even care about total war, but love your videos. Keep up the good work man!!!

[@ДмитроіІннаКладовикови]

I wonder if once ships will be able to take part in mixed battles, bombarding the land troops.

[@SmokeConsciousHipHop]

I've wanted naval battles in the Total War:Warhammer series since they first announced it. So much potential for absolutely amazing set pieces and multi-pronged battles, but I guess that's just not "worth it" to CA. Between the absolutely abysmal sieges, tons of missing units, including most aerial units, lack-luster settlement/field battle maps and "stream-lined" diplomacy/empire building it's like they just used the Warhammer IP as an excuse to put out a half-finished game.

[@teroslarone1171]

The problem is the full extent of it. Unlike most other games most factions have vastly distinct navies (if they even have some at all). It would take about as much resources as a ful game to make navies for all game faction not to mention making it so you can at least somewhat compete with other on the sea and not be completly shafted as beastmen when you face a stack of dwarf ironclads.

[@SmokeConsciousHipHop]

@@teroslarone1171 That's fair, but CA has already shown that they are willing to add new units, lords and factions to the game without regard to pre-existing lore. I'd be down for asymmetrical naval warfare as it would encourage differing playstyles, even with all the jank bugs that would probably come with it. Would pay 50 bucks easily for a DLC that added nothing but dedicated naval units, naval combat and hybrid sieges.

[@teroslarone1171]

Seth Davis I think you are in the minority in that regard my friend tough I would love to see it happen after game 3

[@qihaoliu3631]

@@teroslarone1171 Nah, many people want naval battles -- its just the detractors keep echoing "how naval battles suck in TW" that we come to the situation today. Plus the faction diversity in TWW can make really cool battles -- sure Dawi have Ironclads but Beastman have freakin Narwhals and probably other sea monsters. Don't bring balance as an excuse for missing features when BM destory DW in competitive multiplayer even though DW have better tech than BM.

[@ls200076]

@@teroslarone1171 Nah mate, we really want Naval battles but CA isn't competent enough to deliver that. Shame tho, it would be amazing.

[@WortWortWortHog]

29:22 A manual broadside is unloaded into CA.

[@skush9146]

Loved the video. And what you say at the end, about development and such: I couldn't agree more, but in the current, general state of game development, I would not get my hopes up. It really seems we are in somewhat of a Dark Age in gaming, where developers, or rather the publishers I should say, don't give a f*** about making a great game, and only about sale numbers, with CA/SEGA being no exception. I mean the bland game of Three Kingdoms was obviously nothing but a quick and easy cash grab from the chinese market.

[@SmokeConsciousHipHop]

Well said.

[@vainwarlord8361]

I agree with the sentiment for the most part, and whilst parts of 3k are definetly bland (most notably the unit variety), it's extremely unfair to call 3k nothing but a cash grab. Of course games are made to sell, especially aaa-games like the mainstay total war games. That has always been the case. 3k is a great game. You may not like it personally but certain aspects of it go above and beyond. Especially the diplomacy system is the best we've seen ever, and unpredictable diplomatic AI makes the political game quite different in every playthrough, at least in my experience. The developers obviously made a huge effort to make it a great game. It was neither quick nor easy, as you put it.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

Games have always been made to sell or for profit, it’s just games had to actually be good way back when in order to sell well. Total war was a niche franchise once upon a time, so they had to make quality work to get people to love it. But they’re a pretty mainstream corporation as far as gaming goes now, they have plenty of solid entries, they’re sailing on favor with their fanbase now. Especially after they realized the fantasies of every warhammer fan by making that universe come to life, they can do no wrong to some people at this point.

[@riblix4744]

@@thinkwithurdipstick They continue to make shit game because people continue to buy and play their shit game.

[@thinkwithurdipstick]

Riblix there’s no longer an expectation of quality, people have become content with shit as long as it comes from a big name. Kinda like how Star Wars can pump out shit movies and still make a profit just because it’s called Star Wars

[@ericmcquisten]

Total Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai = best naval battles ever.... featuring Ironsides with devastating firepower, that could single-handily destroy entire fleets by itself.

[@christophmahler]

('Admiral Palpatine') kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWiQpaahhZWCsKs

[@pimfreeke5971]

in shogun 2 you can capture the portuguese's ship and use it in batle, it was funny seeing only one ship against a hord of small ships and utterly destroy them

[@joelmaynard5590]

An amazing video as always darren

[@gourmand3]

I actually really loved naval battles. My gripe from Empire to FotS was how far the ships were when starting. I was happy with the speed and close distance at battle start in Rome 2 and Attila, was disappointed when they stopped from then

[@InternetMameluq]

Amazing video, thanks.

[@user-sg3wp2qs2b]

Shogun 2 FOTS had the best and most satisfying naval battles

[@appleciderhorror12]

"Empire did nothing wrong!" (maybe land battles and definitely sieges but aside those two things...)

[@georgeofazgad2176]

Remember the ottoman turn bug

[@miot22]

Bruh....empire was an awesome game, no doubt. Era wise it’s probably my favorite (normally rtw and by association twr2 wins cuz it was my first). It had such monumental potential, could’ve been a perfect mix of tw rts and pdx campaign management. You almost really felt like you were managing a nation, balancing resources, taxes, development, research, trade, colonies, diplomacy, internal politics, etc... And that is one of the reasons why the hot mess it turned out to be is so heartbreaking. Even with darthmod fixing parts of it, I can only look and wonder....it could’ve been so much more. Thus even though it’s an awesome game, unfortunately, no...empire did do wrong and was found wanting.

[@georgeofazgad2176]

@@miot22 internal politics what internal politics? I do not comsider moving around cabinet members to be internal politics. What would be cool is if they implemented a political faction system and civil war mechanic into the game and give you some hard choices e.g. a noble wants a cabinet positiom but if you deny it he may rebel or tale an army and defect to another nation

[@miot22]

George of Azgad By internal politics I mean managing your government (gov types, cabinet members, revolutions/emerging countries, etc). Yes, it was only a few mechanics deep but that’s kind of the point of my post. You can see the edge of greatness just out of reach.

[@angela_merkeI]

@@georgeofazgad2176 Empire has civil war, you just have to be dumb or do them on purpose to notice them. My favourite example of what is wrong with this game is when it says that a faction's religion is determined by the leader, without any possibility to alter said faith 😂 It really shows how shallow the title is after playing different titles...

[@luisdergroe8944]

I think the bigger problem is the annual release. I don’t need a new total war every year and I think many people would agree with me.

[@christophmahler]

Agreed. If they wanted a steady revenue with less investment, they could have gone for more DLC's (including campaign maps, units), similar to 'TW Rome 2' (effectively selling the same game for twice the price within a year). I didn't think, I'd do it, but my 'TW ROME 2' _collection_ is now _complete_ (well, except for some campaigns...).

[@Pwnicus187]

Naval battles in FotS were the main reason I played that game so much. Multiplayer naval battles for some reason were a lot of fun for me.

[@ThePRCommander]

Rome 2 DEI has some great naval battles, love it. Great video, thx!

[@Snipehunter08]

you really described my youth here, found empire through it's naval battles and 'master of commander'

[@alexbaseball4684]

I kinda get why they don’t have them in times without gunpowder. Shogun 2 fall of Samurai Navel battles where amazing probably because they had hide battleships. That’s why they should make a Victoria time period game or an empire total war 2

[@daviddsun9702]

well in three kingdoms, the majority of Sun Wu's troops are on ships.

[@fred5406]

I enjoyed the spectacle of naval battles but I have to agree that there is generally less strategy involved.

[@ScepticGinger89]

After so many years, Empire's naval battles still look great.

[@tomkiernan254]

The ability to name ships in Empire and Napoleon was a great feature. Its a shame you can't in FoTS

[@nostradamusofgames5508]

ah yes Rome 2's release- the biggest scam in Total War history.

[@jauntyangle5667]

True but at least they bothered to fix it eventually; unlike Empire.

[@Qladstone]

​@@jauntyangle5667 I wished they fixed Empire. The grandest TW game ever. Port growth bug (ports not growing) still exists if I'm not wrong.

[@jauntyangle5667]

@@Qladstone Yes, when you still cannot repair forts some 12 years after release. I gave up playing it.

[@brodymarchiniak]

@@Qladstone There’s a mod to fix this.

[@Kyt_01234]

Sagas game set in viking era.. Basically no ships... Incredible.

[@COMMANDandConquer199]

The problem about removing Naval battles is that we don't see that extra development time go into anything else, it just lets them cut that many more corners and spend that much less on development.

[@docquanta6869]

This is a great video and deserves more views.

[@RepublicOfPlay]

Share it somewhere! And thanks 🙏

[@camille2881]

Who came here with the popcorn knowing the "amazing" Rome II Naval battle system to be reviewed... ;) great video Darren !!!

[@nicolaspedrazalis5104]

we need naval battless

[@golong13]

I think the pinnacle of TW naval battle is Shogun 2 and FOTS. You can't deny that trying to capture the legendary Black Ship in Shogun 2 isn't awesome. I lost 2 whole fleets trying to capture that ship.

[@TheBlackfall234]

The only Naval Battles i actually enjoyed were in Empire. It just fittet in mechanically and didnt feel like a boarding fest were ships would just ram each other.

[@stoutyyyy]

TheBlackfall234 Napoleon naval battles were empire without the bugs and better aesthetics

[@KC-ye6yn]

It is here!

[@tamamatu6395]

I don't really like naval battles but having naval bombardment support when your fleet is close to a battle was really cool in Fall of the Samurai. Also I love naval landing cause it looked cool but your troops usually get easily taken out since you can only land little ships

[@dominicvandermerwe2092]

WE WANT NAVY IN WARHAMMER 3 NO EXCUSES!

[@Frencho9]

CA is going downhill, haven't bought any new titles from them since Shogun 2 Fall of The Samurai, their last solid game. I Don't even bother buying their newer titles even with a 75% discount lol, they are just not worth my precious limited time. See CA, players also do have limited resources and we can use that argument all day long too!

[@hohenzollern6025]

I was the same, stop buying after empire/napoleon. had somebody buy Rome 2 for me as a gift, and it was actually a fun game (years after release). However I broke down and did it... I bought Warhammer 1 & 2... after a couple weeks of constant crashes had me furious, a final blue screen nuked my windows install, and after fixing that the crashes stopped, so I guess it wasn't CA's fault. But the game is so fuggin epic. I am in love now. "Dwarves to me!" The variety of all of it is incredibly impressive. "Where did I put my trolls?" I dont know if any future historical title can ever hope to match the cheer fun of Warhammer. So I probably wont buy another til Warhammer 40k. "Spaaas Mahreeeens!"

[@BB-ce5ev]

You are missing out then.

[@itherius389]

Warhammer 1&2 combined are probably one of the best games in the TW franchise, as a fan since Rome 1 I have to admit the only one that comes close in scale is Empire, but no game comes close in regards to depth/variety

[@willgirvan2491]

I hope they do Victorian or an empire remake with naval battles go perfection. Would be really cool sailing into a port, destroying it's defences so soldiers can disembark to begin an assault inland

[@franciscozambrana8069]

Great job. Greetings from Spain.

[@dukeofgloucester9366]

Well said sir! I'm glad you made this video and called out Creative Assembly on the bs about naval battles. The key is for them to take time with making their games again. They push them out every year to make money and thus increasingly care little for the art and beauty of the game. The more the fan base cries out for quality over quantity, the better these games will become. I mean look at Rockstar and Red Dead Redemption 2; takes years to come out, but when it does it's like the best game ever made! Thank you again for the video, RepublicOfPlay, you are a credit to the Total War gaming community.

[@Ivane_Maskhulia]

Total war empare is one of the best games ever made. Now we get cheap, simple, buggy crap.

[@Kules23]

20:32 What a legend.

[@sardukar1234]

Feels like there was some actual love injected into the naval battles of empire and napolean . Still the best naval combat ever made. EVER. NEED to change that name then....not Total War anymore. Call it Ground War.

[@justincastillo9345]

20:35 “It’s just good business.”

[@martinsgakke]

Empire total War was way ahead of its time in popular culture. Look at the explosion of musket + sails combat games that came following Mount&Blade mods and Assassins Creed Black Sails. It's still the largest campaign map ever made, perhaps the most complex economy and the blueprint for every economic management of every game in the series since.

[@martinsgakke]

Hopefully they will have balls to make Warhammer 3 and Empire 2 with naval battles. Imagine Medieval 3 dlc with Viking landlubbers. That would be atrocious.

[@anderty4088]

Wow, I was looking for something so detailed yet RTS-like 18century navy fights but never had any of them. Thank you for shoving that. It's real shame they are dropped, as it seems unfair to drop something so amazing and lackluster in market.

[@sol2544]

I loved naval warfare in FotS. If not for the combat, then for how they interacted with the map. Bombarding towns, blockading ports, and cutting trade made a huge difference, especially if you were a faction who made much money or resources off of trade. It made it vital that you developed a fleet in being. On top of that, japan itself was perfect as much of the country was coastline. Naval warfare became an extension of your strategic capabilities, and bombardments became a tactical advantage for cracking castle gates or enemy formations. We need more total wars in that time period, to be honest

[@Savsgames]

Late game empire was incredible especially with darthmod. My economy was superior having privateered my way to glory in the ivory coast, east indies, and south america, I had constructed a massive fleet comprising of mostly first rate ships of the line. The one nation that prevented my passage into the middle-east was Russia, my arch-rival. They had secured naval passage through the mediterranean and had sucessfully amassed a navy comparably large to mine. My main fleet, consisting of 12 heavy first rate ships of the line supported by third-rate frigates sailed into the mediterranean, and engaged the russian blockade, engaging the fleet for an hour. They retreated deep into the mediterranean, and we cased them for several days until we ran their ships into the bay of italy, finally cornering, and conquering the enemy fleet. This is why I will continue to play Empire no matter how old it gets.

[@friedrichanton4280]

Amen to the resume at the end.

[@robina2523]

Really enjoyed how my ironclad could destroy 6 or more corvettes on his own

[@ForeverTributesNL]

I hope CA will make another Empire or Colonization era game with awesome naval battles. Who wouldn't want that?!

[@igorokinamujika2073]

I started playing Total War games because of the Empire Naval Battles. I tried the demo and was blown up by the scope and attention to detail. Sure, when I tried the full game, the rest of the game felt a bit lackluster, but naval battles (and mods) saved the game for me. I also also enjoyed the naval side of Shogun 2, specially the "Black Ship" mechanic (I don't undertsand why you didn't mention it) , which worked as a sort of a "boss". It was extremely satisfying to capture and then use it to obliterate AI fleets.

[@christophmahler]

" the "Black Ship" (I don't undertsand why you didn't mention it)" Yeah, many commented on that feature as _missing_ in this otherwise _thourough_ video. Hunting and capturing the _iconic_ "Black Ship" is possibly the most _memorable_ _moment_ of any campaign.

[@theancientone3318]

Hated the way any ai vessel could outrange you in Fall of the Samurai.then again also remember playing Rome 1 and wishing the naval battles were playable,best naval battles Empire total war ! Good video,