The Horrifying Panopticon of West Elm Caleb

[@SarahZ]

Hope y'all enjoy the video! This one's a bit of a return to form for me, so I hope it's well-liked. As a warning, this video goes into brief discussions of transphobia from 29 minutes- 31 minutes in. Please proceed with caution.

[@RhizometricReality]

It's almost like the functions of the state apparatus, especially in how it objectifies, functions of its manufactured culture, the functions of labour extraction for money, all are reductive of personhood, reificating the alienation needed to sell You. The whole social order of society is built on extracting value from the individual, converting their agency and autonomy into commodities to exploit, even when the transaction is clicks and likes, not even material monetary gain. Social orders molded around this ontological nightmare of capitalist realism. Fictional gains all the way down, to the blood soaked pit of human lives thrown asunder.

[@briankirz231]

This one’s my favorite of yours! A lot of high concept stuff explained in a way that’s really easy to understand

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

Well done. Well reasoned. You converted me. But. How are we supposed to handle situations where someone, with power, really is dark triad, and a direct danger to our lives? I worry that instead of an easily exploited outrage culture, we'll have an easily exploited outrage fatigue. I mean, we live in a situation where one of the major US political parties has defended violence to protest imaginary election fraud, after also protesting basic pandemic safety precautions during a pandemic that's already killed more Americans than any of our wars. And you couldn't use them as an example of predators weaponizing fake victimization, because it would make you a target too. And that's just the start of things we accept as normal now. How far will these trends go? They're not just limited to North America.

[@toriestrella]

@@juststatedtheobvious9633 yes, well, the thing to probably not do is to make a 20-second post on social media about it. It misses the point and really is no platform to present anything with detail and nuance.

[@tidalgrunt]

I wish I hadn't seen this comment. Trigger warnings do the opposite of helping.

[@sleepeybunney]

As a body language expert it's clear from the way Sarah sits on her couch & drinks her tea & looks straight ahead into the camera that she's recording some kind of video

[@oONanniOo]

I, an empath, can tell from your comment that you are talking about Sarah's body language

[@nickchambers3935]

Gosh that makes so much sense. I always knew there was something off about her

[@taylor-]

+

[@mars_is_cooler]

I'm in no way an expert but I also sit on couches and can tell Sarah actually hates tea and has several people in her basement

[@dragoncatoverload]

From the reflection in the window I can tell she is using a spotlight in order to draw attention to herself.

[@jessaminemanchester]

"While I don't have a psychology degree I do watch a lot of criminal minds" this sentence dealt me so much psychic damage why must the internet be like this

[@HeavyOverlords]

I literally yelled at my Screen when I heard the sentence. The lack of selfawareness from the person saying it is unbelievable...

[@mushroomshrub]

I wanted to throw my damn phone at the wall

[@OmniSonic]

"I don't have a medical degree but I do watch a lot of House M.D."

[@graquinn4058]

Yeah that part made me want to fucking vomit lmao

[@fishbrain9591]

@@graquinn4058 I saw your pfp and thought you were me for a second lol

[@tesiaw6229]

when are ppl gonna realize that “being an asshole” and “actual abuse” are not equivalent

[@oulafursson]

Probably never -- I only see accelerating of this phenomenon in the future, tbh

[@ekki1993]

People who want an excuse to be assholes to others while feeling righteous don't care about the difference.

[@andrewcapra7153]

Honestly, I know nothing of the Caleb situation outside of what was said in this video, but hearing the description of his actions framed as inherently malicious and abusive made my blood run cold, because quite a lot of it feels very similar to the defensive dating 'strategy' of someone who has been in an abusive relationship in the past. You lavish them in praise and affection to keep them in a good mood and minimize the risk of violence. You overstate how serious you are about the relationship (including 'personalized' gifts) to test if they're going to try and take advantage of someone who falls in love too easily. You keep constantly vigilant for any possible signs of controlling, possessive, or isolating behavior. And always make sure that you can disappear from their lives entirely if they show the slightest hint of a red flag. Sure, it's entirely likely that Caleb is just a huge jackass, but seeing the same kind of behavior that someone who's deeply hurting would display being framed as some devilish and predatory behavior is very uncomfortable.

[@katykatmeow5159]

I've had this problem when talking about things in my past before. Like, I'll talk about some asshole teacher in my religious school I had growing up and some people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that that person was abusive. And I'm like, no, they were absolutely a dick and they had terrible opinions, but I definitely don't think they qualify as abusive. And there's been a few times where the person will insist that that person must have been abusive and I have been deluded into not seeing that they were abusive. And it's like 1) no, I'm a fully rational functional adult and I'm capable of knowing if that person was abusive or not and implying that I can't feels very condescending, and 2) often times I get the feeling that there's a bit of projecting going on and what they're saying isn't really about my experiences and feelings

[@yourstruly9013]

@@katykatmeow5159 fully agree and have also had this experience. People start projecting so hard and will not believe you if you say someone was just an ass, not an abuser. It's ridiculous.

[@Sonyash26]

to quote a tumblr post i saw today, "all of you west elm caleb girlies would not last one day on lesbian hinge. ive had two different people block me because im an aries. i had someone send me zillow listing for the house she wanted us to buy together and then she ghosted me because her ex proposed. imagine how tired we are"

[@HeyItsNovalee]

SERIOUSLY, me thinking about the multitudes of girls that have ghosted me 😭😭 like this really never once was about feminism or fighting misogyny or whatever because so many women do exactly the same thing but noooo one seemed to mention that. You have to wonder who exactly was the “we” these people were talking about while crying feminism when so many women and other people clearly weren’t included under their umbrella of “activism” But honestly are we even surprised at this point

[@CatLady-9327]

"I've had two different people block me because i'm an aries." That's such an aries thing to say.

[@Beto_Serrano]

@@HeyItsNovalee Maybe because the feminism they talk about is nothing but the corporate (normally white-only), deranged and toxic "feminism" that is so emblematic on the USA.

[@schmittywerbenjagermanjens2649]

Bro for reaaaallll. Dating women, you just have to expect shit like this all the time. Girls do this kind of shit all the time, where’s my liberation movement damnit!

[@lnt305]

@@CatLady-9327 I’ve been informed that my complaints about the popularity of astrology in the lgbt community are a very Gemini thing 😄

[@sodium_chlioride]

It's really telling how Couch Guy's girlfriend was treated. Everyone was trying to make the point that they were helping her, but when she didn't immediately break up with her boyfriend, they turned on her. This wasn't about helping her, it was about fulfilling a true crime fantasy

[@Drekromancer]

This.

[@EinDose]

And the evidence they've got about Couch Guy isn't actually speaking to anything clear when there's an equally plausible answer of 'his girlfriend just turned up unexpectedly, maybe he's just not emotionally quick on the uptake on the level TV and movies tell you someone should be, and so hasn't had the time to get happy yet'. The emotional equivalent of 'don't attribute to malice what could easily be stupidity'.

[@fyraltari1889]

Why am I not surprised...

[@dyrnwynski]

@@EinDose it doesn't even have to be that. Like, maybe he is not happy to see her? That would be fine. It is not a requirement to always be happy for your SO to be present. It's pretty normal actually.

[@goodiesohhi]

Literal gaslighting.

[@vampiregarfield8949]

I don't have a psychology degree but I can tell by Sarah's body language and speech patterns that she's gotten into legal trouble with homestuck before

[@donnelwaddledee965]

You could tell by the way she sits, the way she moves her hands, and that time she said in a previous video that she got into legal trouble with homestuck.

[@potatoesstarch2376]

@@donnelwaddledee965 Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk I’m a woman’s man, no time to talk

[@donnelwaddledee965]

@@potatoesstarch2376 I can tell by your words that you're staying alive, I repeat staying alive

[@xuxuang8574]

She definitely has that vibe about her...

[@watsonwrote]

A+ comment

[@ZoeAlleyne]

I swear... The rise of "body language analyses" is so infuriating to me. People act like it is an actual science when it is not. Every person comes loaded with their own context and this impacts their "body language". That's why you might be able to tell that your BFF is trying to keep a surprise party secret from you, but you can't tell that a complete stranger is having an affair from 20 seconds of body language.

[@JesseColton]

I've hated every one of those that I've seen. It grosses me out and it always reeks of someone exploiting a situation to get attention using pseudoscience.

[@genericspectator3094]

it also alienates people who dont have "standard" body language. my first thought is autistic people but it could probably apply other situations

[@agraham9099]

I almost screamed when Sarah shared that clip of a tiktokker saying they may not have a degree in psychology but they do watch a lot of criminal minds oh, good, you’re very good at uncritically consuming copaganda* and believe in fake tv science. that’s awesome. *critically consuming copaganda is watching brooklyn 99 for the wholesome gay content

[@Author.Noelle.Alexandria]

When body language is used by actual experts, it is NOT a single scratch to the nose on its own taken as a sign of lies. I's numerous signs taken together that are consistent and with consideration of cultural differences. A good 10 years ago or so a girl was expelled from her school because it was determined that she was lying about something. I don't remember what, and it's irrelevant. She was determined to be lying since she avoided eye-contact with adult men while she was being questioned. Turns out that women in the culture she was raised in aren't supposed to look men in the eyes. ACTUAL expects know this stuff, and don't take body language as proof, only as a guide on how to proceed next. Quite different than a three-second video clip or a screencap being used to condemn.

[@Author.Noelle.Alexandria]

@@agraham9099 Over the years, it's been reported that jurors who admit watching a lot of procedural dramas are often excused due to how many of them think that procedural show are true. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is often believed to be "beyond a shadows of doubt." A defendant not read miranda rights is likely to be seen as having their rights violation even though cops don't have to recite that. Etc.

[@countryhat5531]

"I don't have a psychology degree but I do watch a lot of criminal minds" is the kind of thing people write as parody and that person said it without a hint of self awareness. How deeply depressing.

[@Bitchpleasistan]

I detected traces of irony in their delivery, but it's not a hill I'd die on. (My sense is that the person in that video was making at least a little fun of themselves for weighing in. Can be hard to tell since TikTok has a lot of casual unseriousness about it.)

[@kaipoland3174]

@@Bitchpleasistan yeah i detected that as well but i wasnt sure about it either.

[@PopfulFrost]

@@kaipoland3174 Whether it's ironic or not doesn't matter. Those words came out of that person's mouth, and this did not prompt them to rethink what they were doing.

[@Homodemon]

@@Bitchpleasistan Being self aware of being full of shit doesn't make you any less full of shit, it just makes you... Self aware, but unwilling to shut up.

[@SwiftyStardust]

I felt a part of my soul die the moment those words were said

[@zeedar412]

It's like a digital stoning. One stone isn't gonna kill them but when everyone just wants to throw one, you have just destroyed a person.

[@aerialdive]

@@creativeuserneim the term youre looking for is called "dogpiling"

[@gingerdog8203]

@@creativeuserneim how was it misappropriation, is stoning not when multiple people throw stones at one specific target of people/a person?

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

@@creativeuserneim It's a directly-relevant simile that conveys a clear meaning of a group collectively punishing someone in a way that leaves no person technically the one who did the damage but the final outcome devastating. That's the whole point of simile and metaphor.

[@claynorth964]

@@creativeuserneim so your "over" all the people using gaslighting and love bombing incorrectly too?

[@Hakajin]

Wow, what an apt metaphor!

[@susieboo22]

One thing that INFURIATED me about the Couch Guy thing was how people treated the girlfriend, calling her an idiot for not "seeing the obvious." When she lashed out at people for harassing her and her boyfriend en masse and telling her to dump him (like she was supposed to dump her boyfriend on the word of literal STRANGERS), I saw a lot of people being like, "We're trying to help you!" and I was like, "NO the fuck you aren't." These people didn't care one whit about her, because they refused to STOP no matter how much she begged them to. My fyp was full of self-righteous vultures who presumed to know more about a relationship from a 19-second clip than the girl who was literally IN the relationship, and who gleefully turned on her too the second she refused to just roll over and let them have their fun at her boyfriend's expense.

[@kanvaros4451]

I think what is truly terrifying is what that woman said about “we all know these girls .” So many people are bringing their own preconceived notions , or ascribing their own character to these people that they’ve never met or seen beyond 19 seconds !!

[@westworld237]

@@kanvaros4451 exactly! It’s pure projection and a total lack of self awareness. Let’s “nOrMaLiSe” speaking for ourselves lol 🙄

[@xoxojustno6971]

Complete hypocrisy at his finest

[@kanvaros4451]

@@westworld237 what’s terrifying is it’s like the Barnum effect , these people use “near universal truths” and extrapolate and ascribe these to these people

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

If you believe a relationship is genuinely abusive, starting a moral campaign is the worst thing you can do. Unless you can get the victim out - a major challenge even for their close and personal friends - all you can possibly achieve is to enrage the abuser and make the situation more volatile. It means it's even worse when a moral campaign happens to trip over a case of actual abuse, because then instead of sabotaging the social circle of people who haven't done anything that bad, they are actively endangering a victim of abuse while telling themselves they're heroes for helping. If you want to help someone you don't personally know but suspect is being abused, usually the only thing you can do that will actually help is contacting the people who do know them personally, and getting resources in place that will help them get out when they decide to go.

[@lucasmcinnis5045]

The "I'm not a psychologist but I love criminal minds so I'm really into judging people based only on their body language" person is terrifying

[@AleTitan]

@Margaret Gibbs I doubt it's the SAME people

[@PraveenKumar-bo7fw]

She is a stupid kid. Most people have some stupid ideas when they were young. I don't thing she is malicious. She should definitely not have the reach she has.

[@Goldenfur12698]

i literally thought that was a fuckin joke when i heard it. and then she kept going and i realized how serious she was :((((

[@CutiePieKindom]

Ale Titan a lot of them are, unfortunately lol

[@roberttysec4122]

So what you’re trying to say is that watching Alf when I was younger DIDN’T prepare me to lead NASA?

[@konkeydonk]

I can’t imagine being Sabrina Prater in that situation. She only posted a video of herself dancing and the internet started misgendering her and saying she killed someone like what the fuck

[@saintsea-hat7891]

Cis people will do anything they can to hurt us. It’s a fact of life.

[@TheEepyMagi]

It scares me, as a trans woman

[@katefresina832]

@@TheEepyMagi and then she was forced to come out. That is so horrible

[@aubreylockwood4792]

Watching this now, it really, really fucks with me. Being a neurodivergent transfemme, it’s yet another reminder of the layers upon layers of masking and trying to appear normal to people. We’re so acutely aware of what happens when we’re seen as a little bit off. I saw her dancing and thought she looked cute. She reminded me of some really sweet friends I have who I really care about. The fact that other people saw that and thought “serial killer?” I don’t even know what to say. I think I’m gonna go cry for a bit

[@cottage-core_]

+

[@theevillemon]

I'm honestly disgusted by how casual people are with doxxing people. People can get in serious danger because of a doxx.

[@amerashi1111]

@Kay E Bruh

[@asaasssddd]

@Kay E lol did you get ghosted by Caleb

[@GetOfflineGetGood]

Should be reserved for Nazis and actually dangerous people in positions of power

[@Excaviliar]

@Kay E They shouldn’t be doxxed either, what’s your point?

[@tempesttossed6029]

@Kay E if you dont see the problem, it's because you're part of it.

[@Painocus]

At this point I consider "body language experts" about on the same level as the people who used to stab every inch of a suspected witch's body with needles to see if she would react in a way that would "prove" that she is a witch.

[@SammySam191]

Y E S, OMG YES, THIS! Honestly, we are talking about body language in my communication class and me and the teacher are constantly like "THIS MAY BE A CLUE TO [a thing] BUT IT'S NOT 100% AND YOU CAN'T JUDGE PEOPLE BY THIS ONLY" because many people are like "em, actually if you're not looking at so.eone, that means you're lying" and I'm here like "lol, sorry I can't keep eye contact well, apparently I'm a constant lier"

[@Spamhard]

For real. All that crap that's like "they're folding their leg away from the other person, which means they hate them" like bro, no, my other leg was dead so I changed legs, and now a body language expert is saying I'm psychopathic.

[@dakunssd]

Is there any actual science behind "body language reading"? Because sure, you get a bunch of "experts" attesting to its accuracy, but I never saw anyone support that with data. Body language is something pretty personal, and to be honest, people who overanalyse other's body language and try to use their own to influence/manipulate others come off the same way as people who try to use spoken language that way, that is, creepy.

[@Spamhard]

@@dakunssd My understanding of it is that it's entirely pseudo-science. While we are a social species who communicates quite heavily via body language, the concept that we all speak the same 'language' is absolutely stupid. Even if we took neurodiverse individuals out of the equation (which we obviously shouldn't), there's still countries, status, upbringing and a shit load of other factors. Most criminology, police forces, psycologists and the like have started steering away from that sort of profiling.

[@2cat4life]

you put the thing into words

[@nrnrn999]

There was a tragic hilarity to the girl proudly announcing "While I don't have any psychology degrees, I do watch Criminal Minds" as if that is somehow an actual accolade that makes her an expert in any way.

[@charlesbaldwin3166]

Its a step below saying no but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[@bernebelmont1857]

I watched Matlock in a bar last night, the sound was off but I got the gist of it

[@dvillines26]

I'm like, "yeah, this is a systemic issue, but that girl should delete her account and touch grass"

[@larissabrglum3856]

That was a real bruh moment for me

[@windwaker407]

That's the kind of statement you make ironically... yknow, as a joke. Like...homegirl just announced to the fucking world how out of touch with reality she is by unironically saying that. Body language pseudo-science is a huge problem. Any number of gestures or mannerisms can mean any number of things. Stiff body language can convey discomfort, but it can also convey shyness or even autism. Defensiveness can indicate guilt, but it can also indicate fear of not knowing how to properly defend yourself even though you really are innocent. No rando on the internet can come up with a definitive conclusion based on body language analysis, nor do they have any right to. This is the private relationship of people you don't know. It's none of your business. Keep your two cents to yourself. Even if you argue that by uploading the clip, they made it everyone elses business, but it was the girlfriend who recorded the clip, and last I checked, she wasn't the one getting every aspect of herself psychoanalyzed as a result of it

[@strangebird5974]

"The abuser adopts the language of the abused." This. This is so prevalent and can make any discussion hard to navigate.

[@skootties]

It's extremely important to remember this. Abusers are not selective about who/what they abuse, because they're defined by a willingness to act outside of socially-agreed-upon boundaries. They will happily abuse language to protect themselves from scrutiny and even to perpetrate further abuse. The solution is to make our language less abusable. When the meanings of terms like "love bombing" and "gaslighting" are well-defined in the public consciousness, it's difficult to abuse them, because the amount of deception necessary to convince people that those terms are being used appropriately becomes unmanageable. If "love-bombing", to you, just means "being overly nice but in a creepy way I guess", there is a huge amount of ambiguity there that can be exploited by an abuser to convince you that just about any kind gesture is "love-bombing" and therefore bad. Conversely, the same ambiguity can be used by an apologist to dismiss any accusations of love-bombing as just paranoia on your part. Ambiguity is not in itself a problem. It's an unavoidable part of language, and poetry and other artful uses of language often depend on ambiguity. But in the arena of social power, it's a vulnerability. Terms that are used to brand people as being either undesirable or unimpeachable are weapons in this arena, and they should be secured from those who would abuse them.

[@alim.9801]

Is that kinda like DARVO, like same kinda principle?

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@alim.9801 yeah, specifically it's the "RVO" part given a bit more poetry

[@devynnhanson]

@@skootties very well put, thank you. The co-option of these terms not only equip abusers with language to, well abuse, but it also takes away the tools given to people to ask for help. I was in an intensive out patient program (IOP) for around four months, and many people there were hesitant to describe genuinely bad situations with terms like “gaslighting” and “trauma” when they should’ve, because the feared not being taken seriously. Which in turn caused additional pain to an already upsetting situation. The term “gaslighting” has become a meme, so how can someone seriously ask for help when most people have heard it used facetiously

[@disasterdrvid]

I’m autistic. I don’t emote very well, I get uncomfortable smiling, and I frequently misinterpret tone both in real life and on the internet. The idea of some person filming me and getting labeled as a psychopath by complete strangers is fucking haunting and emotionally exhausting. All of this is absolutely horrible but thank you for including how neurodivergents get targeted at an even greater level

[@bee1411]

I’m really glad she mentioned neurodiversity as well! I’m also autistic, but for me I am the opposite in nature. I over-emote if I cannot mask, and I’m usually uncomfortable in clothing so I’m always shifting around and moving. I also have a lot of energy and I emote a lo with my handst/talk quickly, so I’ve had people assume I’m on drugs quite a few times. I cannot even imagine how I would feel if what happened to this poor man happened to me.

[@nowheredan27]

Same, it always scares me that I might do something or act a certain way and trigger this response in people unwillingly.

[@Blacknight8850]

Same here - I've even had to make a conscious effort to look people in the eye more when I talk to them because I was coming across as disinterested. But the idea that I'm somehow inadvertently signalling my contempt and hostility for someone because my knees weren't pointing the right way when I spoke to them, and everyone else can see that but me, is like something out of a horror movie!

[@butasimpleidiotwizard]

@@Blacknight8850 it's funny because this kind of obsessive hyperanalysing of a person's body language in order to ""prove"" that they have some secret negative feelings towards you that they're lying about is quite literally an abuse tactic, it's similar to gaslighting in that it's goal is to get you to be hypervigilant about everything you do and expect at all times that you are doing something wrong so you learn to always apologise and blame yourself and never hold the abuser accountable, this is also a great example of how a "red flag" isn't necessarily a red flag and it certainly isn't automatically abuse, because abuse has to be persistent over an extended period of time to the point where it's a recognisable pattern of behaviour to count, I highly doubt any of these people are doing this kind of body language analysis often, most of them probably only feel validated in making these judgements because it's the internet and this guy is the internet's new favourite punching bag, it does scare me though because my brother's abusive ex friends have been trying to use tiktok to spread rumours that he's a murderer (it's literally vile, I can't get into the details but its specifically intended to trigger my brother's trauma and its fucking evil) and I am always just a bit frightened that they're going to get too much attention and it's going to get out of hand and people are gonna start coming for him even though he's the victim in this situation, and while he has made mistakes (that they were usually equally involved in) he's the one who's actively healing and bettering himself while they continue to lie and spread rumours about him and vandalise our house two years after he cut them off because they just can't let it go. Point is though, only fucked up weirdos read into people's behaviour like that and if someone starts doing that to you get out of there, they're the dangerous ones, not you

[@BobbyCalloway]

Yep. I'm autistic and I'm also an actor, and Sweet Jesus the amount of times I'm offered these generic creepy bad guy roles never stops being upsetting. It's clearly because they see the way I move and think it's alien enough that they can just put me on a screen and the audience will instantly go "creepy! stay away!" I had to basically take most of them early on just to get experience or build up my CV, telling myself I was just particularly good at playing the bad guy (likely got plenty of experience on the other end being routinely bullied and abused growing up), but eventually I had to give myself a little rule that I'd no longer accept those roles solely for the sake of my mental health (I had to play an abusive boyfriend as a favor to a friend last minute a couple of years ago and it was so triggering and upsetting I can't even watch the film). I don't even have any bad guy roles on my showreel, aside from one stern cop. I do have to hold out the grudging belief that if Netflix or the big leagues ever come calling, I'm going to have to swallow my pride and take a lot of $$$ for the sake of career advancement. Oh and I was also advised to take being autistic off my CV by a casting director "in case it makes people think you'll be difficult on set" - but sure I probably dodged a bullet in Sia not approaching me for Music. Heartwarmingly enough, once I met other autistic filmmakers, they've given me the chance to play all kinds of different parts (I got to be a heroic zombie hunter last September :D) and I recently had a film in cinemas where everyone in it was an asshole and I was the most sympathetic of them all. But then there are times when I completely contradict myself and be like "okay THAT bad guy was fun to play". I guess my rule is that 'evil and fun' or 'evil and sexy' are the exceptions (I have yet to play evil and sexy but a man can dream lol).

[@user-rz3nu3lm5r]

Sick of people misusing terms like “love bombing” like I’m sorry but a new person being super affectionate towards you and then ghosting you is not love bombing. Love bombing usually refers to when an abuser will shower the person they are abusing in gifts or attention in an attempt to “minimize” the harm they’ve caused. It’s an awful manipulation tactic that contributes to people feeling stuck in abusive relationships and it bothers me that terms like that are being thrown around so frivolously online.

[@nervousbreakdown711]

Between the misuse of “love bombing” and “gaslighting,” advocates for domestic violence victims are gonna have to use completely new terms

[@billyjones-1996]

Also (I'm not an expert at all) but doesn't ghosting someone sort of invalidate the love bombing claim? Like if you don't carry on stringing the person along then it's not really love bombing as the abuser gets no real benefit out of being nice in the first place

[@katherinealvarez9216]

Exactly!

[@katherinealvarez9216]

@@nervousbreakdown711 pretty much.

[@user-rz3nu3lm5r]

@Kay E his actions were def scummy but being an asshole isn’t always tantamount to being an abuser. The way we use words matter, especially language used to describe domestic abuse.

[@jeremyowens3319]

When the woman in that clip said "I don't have a psychology degree, but I do watch a lot of Criminal Minds", I think I pulled a muscle rolling my eyes.

[@sycastells1212]

I snorted. It would br hilarious if it wasn't so horrifying

[@MasterOphSky]

Shows like Criminal Minds will make up shit to sound scientific, to tie an episode's theme or plot together, or sometimes quite simply to further a writer's bias or agenda. An important lesson to keep in mind when watching something; if you learned it from media, it's likely fake. They'll use real cases as inspiration, draw on professional testimonies, even potentially have a background in the topic. But writers will always change how their fictional world works to make the story make sense.

[@anska7475]

I thought it was a bit scary, because by the end she sounded so happily eager as if embarking on a fun diy project „I have never held a hammer in my life but I‘ve watched a lot of crafting videos on youtube and so today, I am going to build a birdfeeder“

[@Manoomu]

Ok so, if she was someone I knew at a party, this would be a fun aside. Of course she doesn't know anything but it's fun to talk about, and if it was me and 4 other people it would be a fun dish session. But when she's one of many thousands people abusing a single man as a means of social clout it's very different, though i'm sure to her she's just having a fun aside at a party. How people think they're using social media is so different to what social media's effects actually are. They're not joking with friends, they're yelling in an auditorium. To us she seems like she's saying why she should be heard among millions, though i'm sure to her she was establishing that she shouldn't be listened to at all.

[@yuza1032]

I keep having to pause the video and alt tab out to something else for a long while because of the TikToks. For some reason that one set me off the most and I had to message my friend telling him this was something someone actually said and I couldn't take it.

[@str00p]

" but I *do* watch a lot of Criminal Minds" spoken with absolute confidence blew my mind. How do people get like this??

[@ScotterOtter]

Dunning-Kruger.

[@katherinealvarez9216]

They switch education and experience with entertainment and likes.

[@Shmaples]

I laughed so hard.. that was comedy gold.. then I remembered it's real and I got sad.. but it's still hilarious.

[@TenositSergeich]

_image_ _of_ _Barron_ _Trump_ _in_ _"The Expert"_ _shirt_ _momentarily_ _appears_ _on_ _screen_

[@elyca6329]

As someone who has a PhD in psychology (yes, for real) and is a trained clinical psychologist, my reaction to that was... 🤦‍♀️

[@marinemanaphy101]

The absolutely unhinged shit of “Yeah, I know those girls on the couch. I think we ALL know those girls” is what truly ruins my brain. They’re literally just sitting there but these true crime people will act like there’s a secret sociopath hiding behind every door.

[@overgrownkudzu]

yeah they're projecting their own bad experience with someone on these random people they don't even know

[@Carrottastic]

Yeah, I lost it at "I'm not an expert on body language, but I do watch a lot of criminal minds." like that sounds like satire, pls tell me it's satire

[@mhawang8204]

That clip and the Criminal Minds girl were the most terrifying parts to me. One thing that jumps out was this woman looked older, so it's not just juvenile teenagers having a laugh playing private detectives. And to project their own perception to rile up the mob ("WE ALL KNOW") is just so vile. I lost a little bit of faith in humanity seeing that.

[@Clickstop24]

@@mhawang8204 She is Peggy Hill irl. The kind of person that likes to pretend they know more than they actually do to the point where she apparently even fooled herself. I only pray she was just playing this up for clout.

[@crashtestdolphin5884]

"Likely partly as a result of the True Crime brain poisoning where the private lives of private individuals are fun mysteries to solve in real time" THANK YOU. Finally, somebody called out this weird murder fetish we've all just accepted as normal entertainment

[@imsmolandangery4274]

I think you'll like the episodes about true crime by the you're wrong about podcast

[@mechanomics2649]

I mean, it's been called out well before this video.

[@crashtestdolphin5884]

​@@mechanomics2649 Sarah Z. is the only media commentary channel I sub to, so it's news to me.

[@T0xXx1k]

@@imsmolandangery4274 "you're wrong about" is such a great podcast I love it. 🧡🦇 It's unrelated but if you interested in nerdy subjects/pop culture & enjoy having 2 new pffs(pod friends forever lmao) that a very loud & proud 🏳️‍🌈 check out "like a virgin" it's my 2nd favorite podcast after "you're wrong about" I can't recommend those 2 shows enough 🧡🦇

[@ktownshutdown21]

I despise the true crime genre for so many levels, this being the latest reason for me to hate it.

[@littlebluewraith8435]

"There's still this underlying notion that there exists a right person to hurt." This is such a good quote, like damn.

[@kenpanderz672]

true. it really seems like some people just really want a bag to punch but also wants to feel morally riotous for doing so. having their cake and eating it too.

[@MCAndyT]

+

[@milhousevanhoutan9235]

@@kenpanderz672 yeah, but....I mean they'll never come from stupid internet drama (only serious internet drama like Austin Jones or Lionmaker level, maybe) sometimes there are people you MUST hurt. Which leads to a question, if you must, what's the moral baggage associated with that? (I've been thinking a lot about Ukraine- specifically their now hardened and armed civilians and how they probably don't want to hurt anyone but they must.... just weird shower thoughts don't mind me.)

[@iankellymorris]

@@milhousevanhoutan9235 How would you determine who MUST be hurt though? Nobody's all-knowing. Even if you were all-knowing, how would you make the moral judgement of where in the vast ethical gradation of human actions to draw the line. There's a certain practical necessity in self-defense, and that extends somewhat to defending others, but that's also not really about hurting them. It's more about neutralizing a threat. Mitigating harm.

[@raro344]

@@milhousevanhoutan9235 As Morris said, Ukraine isnt trying to hurt Rusia, but stop them from doing more.

[@maijashea]

I can’t imagine being so conceited that when a person is kinda rude to me on a dating app, that my first instinct would be to push for that person to lose their job (which is completely unrelated to their dating life) and then shame people for “hating women” when they don’t agree with me.

[@cifge_404]

Well, clearly, _you_ hate women because you don't think men should face the absolute worst consequences negotiable for hurting a woman's feelings.

[@arandomcomment1092]

Very sure that qualifies as being a narcissist.

[@kwarra-an]

Ikr?? Like it's fine to complain to your friends about the experience (I've done that, sometimes at great length - sorry friends) but keep that stuff private. You'll forget about it in a couple of months, that's how little it matters.

[@jwbrooks55]

Hell truly hath no fury

[@billyjones-1996]

Just wanna say as someone diagnosed with autism thank you for mentioning neurodivergency and not everyone fits into the stereotypes of what counts as 'manipulative' body language -- I literally had a dream once that I was being interviewed on TV and everyone thought I was lying cause I was so stiff and awkward talking to someone new haha

[@damien678]

wait people think your body language can be inherently manipulative??? oh, oh no

[@Homodemon]

I swear, people judging me for my awkward body language is a recurring nightmare of mine. But I always told myself that was just my anxiety speaking, that people don't actually care... Welp. Shit.

[@cjboyo]

Almost every single “spot a narcissist” video is just describing autism traits

[@toriestrella]

@@damien678 yes. Nobody has any idea what a red flag actually is these days, it seems.

[@Homodemon]

@@cjboyo ironically, ain't it a narcissist trait to project horrible mental afflictions onto other people to make themselves seem reasonable in comparison. "Everyone else is the problem, but not me."

[@guyfieri791]

The idea of everyone condemning Caleb as some sort of activist effort like he’s the first person to ever use a dating app for validation is ludicrous

[@draculactica]

i agree, Guy Fieri

[@damien678]

@Kay E quick question, did you actually watch the video? or is this comment a joke?

[@tempesttossed6029]

@Kay E do so in your private life with people you meet in person. Do not gang up on random strangers. That solves nothing and is only a means of feeling control in a senseless world. Seek therapy, you likely have unresolved trauma.

[@Homodemon]

@@damien678 is a contrarian troll, they are just shitting it up on all the replies.

[@goblin6587]

@@tempesttossed6029 you're gaslighting

[@15arael]

It's scary how people can just see others as "characters" and not people with real lives and that mobs can have consequences.

[@Eyecyou64]

Internet:(

[@larsnyman2455]

I see that happening with Zelenskyy, it’s frustrating

[@mhawang8204]

I think the medium (internet/social media) plays a big part in this. It's personally removed enough that people can be judgemental behind a screen safely for entertainment.

[@briannawhite9307]

As someone with a Hinge, the nude photo story isn't true. The app doesn't allow you to send photos

[@leejames929]

I did not think it was true. It was very odd to me that only one person got a nude. When dudes are into sending unwanted nudes they tend to send them to more then one person

[@EmberAlexander-x5h]

Every dating app blocks sending photos. If you're getting unsolicited nudes you've either exchanged numbers or maybe you're talking about DMs on social media, most of which also filter DM's from people you don't follow into a separate folder that doesn't even notify you and you have to specifically search to find it. Getting bombarded by unsolicited nudes as first messages on any dating app isn't a thing. Maybe it used to be but it hasn't been since I've been old enough to use dating apps and I'm 30.

[@SmileyxKyley]

it was over text, you can see from the screenshots that have been posted that he moved from hinge over to texting pretty quickly after matching with people, and you can even see earlier in the video some screenshots referencing an unsolicited picture (that from context clues is probably lewd) and the “using me for my body” comment.

[@GamingintheAM0801]

Couch Guy was such a horrifying thing to witness, personally. I'm an incredibly awkward dude who tends to have stiff body language in social settings, even moreso when I'm surprised or caught off-guard, and I'm terrified of the thought of having 18 seconds of that behavior recorded and uploaded online only for people to overanalyze my natural behavior as somehow suspicious. Like just because he wasn't excitedly jumping up a down like a toddler means he was a cheater. Maybe that's just... how he is, fellas. Ever consider that?

[@freaki0734]

Of all the things mentioned here it was the only thing I came across myself on social media and I was like "well maybe he is cheating but, that's literally how I might react especially with other people around". This being so incredibly dumb might be a reason it doesn't happen again or at least not very often. But I feel a bit naive in that hope.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

@@freaki0734 it will certainly happen again, couch guy was not the first time

[@jadziajan]

I don't even know why anyone brought up cheating (I mean I know... but also,) like, even if you decide to overanalyse the guy's body language, why not reach the conclusion that he's just "not very attached to his girlfriend"? (If you're choosing to read this 2 seconds clip negatively in the first place.) That does not have to mean cheating. At all. And that's not even mentioning the needless and weird slutshaming behaviour of claiming that women who sit next to your partner are "not your friends".

[@SophieSquid]

I honestly was just thinking, idk guys, how would *you* stand up after probably getting really comfortable on a couch after a long day of school work. idk bout anyone else but when I'm comfortable and sitting/laying down I don't want to get up for any reason and if I did it'd probably be tired or stiff or something honestly. he might have just not moved his body in a hot bit lmao

[@schrodinger_punk]

Couch Guy reminds me of my boyfriend so much tbh. He doesn't like surprises and if I had showed up out of the blue like that with somebody behind me recording his reaction he would've looked less than excited. Sometimes people don't like surprises, sometimes people don't like to be filmed, sometimes people are shy and awkward. And that's ok.

[@ashleydonohoe600]

I go to the same school as couch guy. People were hanging up polls asking whether he was cheating in the elevator of my apartment & I heard people hung it up in his apartment complex too. Almost all of the votes said he was a bad person or cheating. Everyone at this university was talking about him and condemning him out in the open as casual conversation. It was absurd to watch everyone in your general vicinity, on the whole, think you’ve done something you very well may not have (and most likely didn’t).

[@SarahZ]

Holy shit. This poor dude

[@smagdarine]

i go to the same school as the girlfriend, and we had a class in common last semester. i didn't know until the person sitting next to me, a stranger, pointed to her in a several hundred person lecture hall and said "that's couch guy's girlfriend" it's fucking crazy

[@miseryfell6417]

@@smagdarine This whole "Couch Guy" thing is making me feel like I'm the sanest person in the world. I don't understand how people got "he's having sex with other people" from a SINGULAR TIKTOK. Like I'm just trying so hard to figure out the thought process of these people. Any shred of rationality just went out the window with these people and it's terrifying how hardcore they went in on the guy. Imagine being demonized or someone you know demonized for a clip of hugging.

[@cathylatte741]

@@miseryfell6417 It's honestly baffling how much people latched onto a single brief clip and came down on him with absolute condemnation...like jeez my own high school friend group had a mix of guys and girls and we were all friendly and close with each other, even if some of us had significant others. We'd sit squished on top of each other, drape over each other, play on each other's phones, etc, because that was 'normal' for us. We never know what's going on in someone else's life or what their definition of 'normal' is, yet so many people just plaster their idea of 'normal' overtop of everything else and act with absolute certainty on it, jumping to awful conclusions. I felt so bad for the guy and the girl involved..

[@bee1411]

I feel for this guy so much, like holy shit! To me he literally just looked worn out but happy to see his girlfriend?? But it’s literally no one’s business in the first place. The whole thing was a completely unprecedented assumption, and a disgusting invasion of privacy. I doubt most people would want everyone on the planet to know that their partner cheated on them, and it’s even worse if they’re actually loyal and you trust each other and people are harassing you about this! I cannot imagine the stress the situation put on them. To harass anyone in real life, or online about anything, but especially about their personal lives is just horrific to me, it makes me sick the way we treat celebrities as well. I just cannot understand why some people cannot seem to empathize with all parties involved. Back when I would watch drama channels years ago, I always empathized with everyone involved, unless it was especially heinous. But seeing all these mobs of people dog piling people online who they don’t even know; it’s depressing to watch. I know how I would feel in that situation, because I was bullied by basically my entire middle school, and the stress was horrible. I cannot fathom how I would cope if that bullying happened on SUCH a massive and invasive scale.

[@randa_inamood]

I'm so tired of seeing the term gaslighting used as a synonym of lying. Gaslighting is so much more destructive it makes you questions things and events you were so sure of, you question your own reality. So no, someone just denying something they did is not gaslighting, it's plane old lying

[@MiloKuroshiro]

Yep. In online circles gaslighting turned into "Lying about something" or "being rude/talking over someone". As someone who was gaslighted by years by someone who even faked a whole ass job and life plans while making me look crazy and paranoid when questioning to everyone and specially by me, that makes me so fucking mad.

[@tempesttossed6029]

Honestly. It's a prolonged story weaved to create mental and emotional abuse.

[@yukiandkanamekuran]

Yeah I was gaslit by someone in the past, it's not lying to someone, it's making someone feel like they're crazy. Those are different things, and at the same time, I wish people wouldn't immediately jump to gatekeep the word and instead describe it. Because gaslighting is a type of lying but not just lying by itself. Because for the people who are gaslit, are more likely to be confused than to know it's gaslighting, unless they have previous experience. To this day, the person who gaslit me, I didn't even know that they were lying to me until other people told me experiences with that person.

[@Venya9]

EXACTLY! It annoys me when gaslighting is used to describe lying. Someone dating many women at the same time, telling them they're the only one he is dating and confessing his love just to ghost them after a few dates is not gaslighting. It's being an asshole and lying. Gaslighting is a manipulation tactic and emotional abuse. I was gaslighted in a 3-year relationship and he made me question my reality. I also wish people would explain the difference more as someone who is genuinely gaslit might then realize it.

[@ennisskalski719]

I truly cannot understand how people feel justified using that way. I don't even feel confident calling something that only _mostly_ fits the definition because I'm not sure if the person asserting they didn't do X thing genuinely forgot about it. Or that the behaviour doesn't "count" as gaslighting because it's not actively malicious, even if the end result of having me question my own reality/memory is the same.

[@NoonDragoon]

Couch Guy was the "story" that actually made me quit using TikTok, and largely most social medial, at all. It seemed such a blaise, plain video: a girl surprises her long distance boyfriend and the boyfriend reacts. But then everybody called the boyfriend a cheating POS because he didn't jump for joy or something. But, like, his reaction was completely normal and warranted. I know I wouldn't be immediately jumping for joy if I got a surprise like that from my partner. I'd of course be happy to see them, but my mind would be immediately racing with thoughts like "oh my gosh how much was her plane ticket, I could have helped pay for it", "where is she sleeping, does she already have a hotel rented, or is she expecting to stay here? Are my roommates going to be cool with that?", "We just ate dinner and there's nothing left, is she hungry?". Plenty of people don't automatically love surprises, but those comments I saw calling him a POS and doxxing him just made me realize I needed to step away from the platform for good. There was also a KZbinr I really liked but unsubbed from after they basically said that Couch Guy was cheating on his girlfriend and doubled down on it after the guy said nothing was wrong with their relationship.

[@mechengr1731]

Also, he could be happy to see her, but not happy to see her at the same time. That doesn't make him a bad bf, it makes him a complex individual with interests and concerns outside the relationship

[@flameshade7601]

When I saw the title I had genuinely no idea what it meant and if this was a random channel I would assume this would either be something I wasn't interested in at all or some cryptic bs that I wouldn't be able to understand. But Sarah has earned enough of my trust through her poignant analysis that I decided to watch this anyways because I figured I was going to learn something interesting, and I was not disappointed.

[@DOMDOTCOM518]

It’s only been out for like 20 minutes and it’s an hour long video 😐 how did you watch it already

[@tehawsumninja]

Same!

[@i.lostblur]

@@DOMDOTCOM518 Playback speed. click on the little gear on the lower right corner of the video. i watch most of these on at least 1.5 and it really saves a lot of time through dragged out moments. also, some of the example videos here are somewhat redundant so i just skipped through them.

[@damien678]

for many, it's just their latest excuse to bully and harass others

[@yurisei6732]

This is every single video for me. I never know anything about the subject, and without fail, I come out having learned something, with the video being a highlight of the week.

[@sympathiea]

"Can't I just be an asshole without being pathologized, please?" Is not a question I'd ever thought to ask, but when I put myself in the position of one of these people getting socially crucified for being a just being kind of a shitbag, it was the first thing that came to mind.

[@doctordragon9798]

On the flip side, as a mentally ill person "Can't someone just be an asshole without being ill, or is your definition of mentally ill synonomous with 'asshole its ok to hurt'?"

[@MiotaLee]

Sometimes you have shit takes all until someone challenges them. There is no room for growth on the internet because once you have an opinion that's all people will know you for. You can change your mind, but you can't change the crowds perception about you. at least not easily.

[@IizJessieify]

I've only tangentially run into the Caleb stuff but it is baffling to me. The original TikToks are fine - some girls realized they were all going on dates with the same guy who's kind of a mid-grade asshole. Honestly I feel bad for the original girls who didn't mean for the videos to spread like this. But people are bringing gaslighting and love-bombing into it?? Those are really specific terms for types of interpersonal abuse, and showing interest for a couple dates and then ghosting is. Not that. Like yeah, West Elm Caleb's behavior with the women he dates suggests he's probably a douche in his dating life. That so does not justify the people looking up his real information, trying to get him fired, etc. This is why I don't share pretty much anything important to TikTok even when I think I have a really funny story to tell.

[@goblin6587]

doing that to many girls at once with no intention to ever date them is manipulative, and absolutely gaslighting

[@suicidal.nihilist2107]

@Kay E no one owes you attention. people have the right to stop talking to you whenever they want. get over it.

[@goblin6587]

@@suicidal.nihilist2107 and if you manipulate people they can expose that

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

@@goblin6587 gaslighting is when you tell someone they hallucinated you hurting them not this

[@nickchambers3935]

@@goblin6587 What do you think gaslighting is? It doesn’t just mean lying, it specifically means making someone doubt their own perception of reality. Referring to any instance of dishonesty as gaslighting just devalues the term.

[@disgruntledcashier503]

To everyone who thinks doxxing West Elm Caleb was fair retribution, I ask you to consider: Are you currently defined by the worst thing you've ever done?

[@95rossc]

Due to mental illness and seeing stories like this, that is quite often how I define myself.

[@steelfox1448]

@@95rossc same :c

[@venusgin7779]

To my family? Absolutely.

[@cottage-core_]

+

[@sorejack]

I think I remember in school something being bad? A scarlet letter or something?

[@slimwinky]

I saw Sarah Z at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told her how cool it was to meet her in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother her and ask her for photos or anything. She said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but she kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing her hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard her chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw her trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in her hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Ma’am, you need to pay for those first.” At first she kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, she stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, she kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

[@cloverplayssnakegame]

This is true I was the cashier

[@leand682]

The Flying Sarah Copypaste

[@mj2208]

its true I was one of the Milky Way bars

[@Devedrus]

It's true I was the electrical infetterence

[@awitngibon]

its true i was the price scanner

[@sistersarah2874]

It’s just so weird that huge corporations are getting involved in these situations lol. Same with “Couch Guy”. It shouldn’t be normal for people basically being put on blast like this.

[@julidagar]

The fact that couch guy's girlfriend was relentlessly teased and bullied by the internet under the guise of "looking out for her", and then when she did the bare minimum to capitalise on all the unwanted attention she was accused on milking it for money..... like this poor girl couldnt win

[@smagdarine]

@@julidagar so the girlfriend goes to my university and our majors are similar enough that we've had some similar classes - last semester the person sitting next to me leaned over and pointed to some person in this large lecture hall and was like "you know couch guy? that's his girlfriend" i was horrified! like what the fuck!

[@eevee2Glacia]

@@smagdarine THAT'S SO WEIRD and also literally middle school bullying... The way that these types of situations can get grown ass adults to act that way is... Weird.

[@jonjon4634]

@@eevee2Glacia The internet has and will always reward immaturity.

[@eevee2Glacia]

@@jonjon4634 True!

[@AyuRPG]

It's infuriating that as soon as I heard you speak about the trans woman I thought "oh, she's gonna be seen as either a sex offender or a murderer, possibly both" and I was completely right. I hope she is alright and was able to overcome this horrible experience.

[@AyuRPG]

I’m a trans woman early in transition myself. If that happened to me, it honestly might have bullied me back into the closet again. I looked her up, she seems to be fairly active on tiktok and making dancing videos still, which means she certainly is a stronger person than I am. I just hope I live to see the day where people will stop invoking Buffalo Bill whenever they see a trans woman that doesn’t meet cissexist beauty standards behaving in a manner they deem socially unacceptable.

[@Haverlock]

my mind after registering "Trans woman dancing in a dirty basement" immediately went "Oh no"

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

Every video that mentions a trans person in a social media controversy I just start a countdown to when the blatant contempt for trans existence kicks in. Pretty damned rare it doesn't.

[@TheFeelingOfC]

The one tik tok of someone questioning why she had security cameras was so weird like how on earth are you going to question why someone has security cameras in their home??? I just don’t see how someone can see someone dancing in a rundown place (that if a cis person did would probably be considered cool and edgy) and immediately assume they’re a murderer, there isn’t a shred of logic in that!! The woman was just fucking dancing

[@miseryfell6417]

@@TheFeelingOfC Yup, I just know if it had been any other person and not a trans woman, nobody would have given that TikTok a second thought.

[@nicksvitak5416]

We've finally created the panopticon from the classic Sarah Z video "Don't Create The Panopticon"

[@wertyppl]

So that's where the Federal Bureau of Control got the idea from!

[@Ellaliluleloka]

As an actual psychologist (yes, really), we are constantly reminded that one action can have a bunch of interpretations, which is why we never diagnose anyone based on a single tool or interaction, and we must always rule out other reasons for a behavior (e.g., maybe someone is avoiding eye contact because they have bad vision and not due to stress or anxiety). Seeing people straight up diagnose STRANGERS over minuscule observations without context or any training is just ridiculous.

[@horricule451]

As an autistic person I especially despise the attitude of "they're not making eye contact so they must be lying and untrustworthy" like damn that's jumping to conclusions so quickly it deserves a medal for gymnastics

[@notproblempal8343]

Wait. Psychologists are real?

[@horricule451]

@@notproblempal8343 they're not. They're a myth that was invented to give Freud's ideas more credibility

[@yserareborn]

No! You don’t understand! I’VE watched Criminal Minds!

[@Ellaliluleloka]

@@horricule451 SHHH

[@evi6629]

The misappropiation of love bombing... dear god Love bombing is when an abuser, after a particularly big blowout, or just when they notice their victim is considering leaving the relafionship, starts being REALLY romantic for a while. Flowers, presents, dates, they're really attentive and romantic and *seem* apologetic about their past behavioir. The thing about love bombing is that it's not genuine and always tempprary. They're not actually trying to do better, they just want to keep the victim in the relationship. Eventually they'll go back to their old behaviour and the cycle starts anew. It is NOT a guy you met on a dating app being overly familiar before you've even met. That's weird, and a possible red flag. But it's not love bombing. When we muddy these terms we make it even harder for abuse victims to realize and express what is happening to them.

[@howdypardner6278]

It's like how people say "gaslighting" aka just lying or being rude. You can't gaslight or lovebomb someone you don't already have a very close personal relationship with

[@BrokenHedgehog]

Sort of like how people with PTSD can't use the word "triggered" any more without getting an eye roll in response because a bunch of oversensitive dipshits on the internet misused the word to the point an actual psychological term needed to convey how serious the aftermath of someone's trauma is to others got turned into a punchline for edgy, wannabe-internet comedians.

[@julesmallow]

Lovebombing is also a part of narcissistic abuse. I experienced it as my partner expressing he loved me and wanted to marry me after 2 weeks of knowing each other, buying me extravagant and unwanted gifts, and then suddenly becoming a different person and wanting to leave me several months into the relationship. (He was definitely a narcissist, told me multiple times how he thought everyone else besides me was beneath him). While I agree West elm Caleb wasn't lovebombing, your definition isn't exactly correct either. It can start without abuse, at the very beginning of a relationship to lure someone in.

[@goblin6587]

@@howdypardner6278 you can gaslight someone you don't have a close personal relationship with

[@guardianeris]

@@goblin6587 ... no, you can't, because gaslighting is a technique of RELATIONSHIP ABUSE, which requires one to have a relationship. Stop cheapening serious words

[@nervousbreakdown711]

As someone with a Master’s in forensic psychology, seeing that girl claim that her criminal minds knowledge was enough to make my soul leave my body and complain to my roommate in the program. Also, we don’t even like profiling and don’t believe in analyzing body language unless it’s to help get a mental health diagnosis! WTF??!

[@salthesteamengine]

I agree, it’s insulting to the people that put real life work into getting educated. It’s like saying I’m a biologist because I watch nature documentaries🙄

[@ebb6077]

I’m currently doing a forensic science class in high school rn and just noticed body language isn’t mentioned/brought up lol.

[@theagoldman7333]

This video essay perfectly articulated what has been pushing me away from social media, and especially tiktok, for months. Bullying someone who you think "deserves it" is still bullying, and morally equating all people slightly south of neutral as monsters is damaging, because it not only trivializes the victims of actual atrocities, but also makes it totally unappealing for individuals who have made a mistake to learn from their actions and improve themselves, because they have witnessed huge swaths of the population demonize them in the past. This was awesome, Sarah. I audibly yelled "Yes!" several times while watching.

[@raro344]

It also hide the fact we are transforming punishment into a espectacle with all that invold.

[@GarretRB]

@@raro344 people used to watch public executions and participate in lynchings this isn't a new phenomenon.

[@Homodemon]

@@raro344 it all becomes a matter of: If the whole world isn't on the punishment and harrasment then, will the wrong doer ever learn his lesson?

[@chuuna3962]

To me it seems like people have a very shitty grasp on what punishment fits the crime in a personal situation. Say, you’re in a bar,and someone punches you in the face. You have every right to defend yourself and even punch them. What you don’t have the right to do is pull out a comically large sword and slash the person in half, or pull out a glock and shoot them in the kneecap,forever crippling them. The punishment should always fit the crime. Not even gonna start on the whole “being a bigger person” thing, because people who follow mobs like these will never comprehend the importance of sometimes stepping down no matter what the situation is.

[@marvelousTUD]

The pathologizing language is the worst part imo. Everyone I dislike is a narcissistic, abusive, gaslighting sociopath. No such thing as assholes, disagreements, or honest mistakes: the only person acting in good faith is me. It’s disgusting.

[@Drekromancer]

Hard agree. It's just license to fully dehumanize whatever target you set your sights on. At that point, nobody is allowed to defend them anymore.

[@Aster_Risk]

Honestly, what happened to simply calling someone an asshole, a dick, a jerk, childish, mean, insensitive, etc.? None of those are diagnoses.

[@marvelousTUD]

@@Aster_Risk It's like Sarah said in the "pro-shippers vs antis" video, over-stating harm is the trend right now. With the way things are right now victimhood and grievance are a kind of social capital, so whoever is the most offended, downtrodden, or hurt wins my default. If my ex calls me a jerk, that sucks, but it's not a crime. If I call him a manipulative gaslighting sociopath, that's pretty terrible, I'm oppressed, and I win.

[@ruthkinyon4665]

I want to push back on you on one point there: "abuser" is not a pathologizing term. It's a description of someone's actions (accurate or not) rather than a diagnosis of a disordered mental state. People absolutely do use it inaccurately, but it's not pathologizing

[@mechanomics2649]

@@marvelousTUD This's some anti-SJW mess.

[@BroeyDeschanel]

Yesss yes yes! People really gravitate towards scapegoating individuals in the name of abstract, systemic issues. I really do think it's a natural human tendency because it makes these problems easier to grapple with, especially when we don't feel like we have control over systems that harm us. But when it comes down to it, it's an actual human being who gets harmed/dehumanized in the process. Such a good video!

[@FelisImpurrator]

It's partly that, and partly as a form of self-assurance. That's especially the case when it comes to labeling people as other - attributing certain behaviors to easy negative labels like "psychopath" or "narcissist", perpetuating terrible mental health stereotypes. The thought that ordinary people might do bad things scares people because "Hey, if they're just like me... No way. There has to be something inherently wrong with them, because I could NEVER do that... Right?" Moral crusades on the other hand serve to reinforce that notion of "Well, I'm a Good Person and these are Bad People, so I have to punish the Bad People". It's for the gratification of having Been Virtuous without actually, you know, making sure it helps those in trouble. In the end though, slaying fictitious dragons does no kindnesses, and essentializing a person inevitably damages your ability to understand that person.

[@shinyskunk]

Even in the comments here we're all complaining more about the individual actors instead of the corporations that set up these systems that incentivize this behavior!

[@Deoxys911]

I agree, there's enough of a similarity with the historic xenophobic rhetoric of "this other group of people are to blame for our problems" that I definitely think it's in no small part an instinctual thing. I'd hazard a guess that it stems from some combination of ego preservation and primitive tribalism meant to protect/comfort us psychologically.

[@sanguine2552]

Yeah. For real this guy might have been rude for acting the way he did but he certainly didn’t “harm women” (I started laughing when Sara said that around 9:10 lmao still can’t tell if she was serious) and if the genders were reversed everyone would be jumping on the crowd for “slut shaming”. Instead it’s a dude who ghosted a lot of women being accused of “love bombing” just stupid. Like people don’t have a right to choose who they keep talking to or not?

[@pupyfan69]

i don't think its human nature. i think its a result of the atomization, alienation, disorganization of the working classes in north america

[@salthesteamengine]

the fact that that one girl said she watches criminal minds so she thinks she knows about body language and psychology…. this scares me bc criminal minds has so much misinformation about psychology (especially neurodivergent people and mental illness) and it baffles me people use it to make real world observations. also the way the guy was asking a psychologist and she pops up like “HI IM NOT A PSYCHOLOGIST BUUUUUT” lmao

[@Starburst514]

G O D. Y E S. criminal minds is so hollywoodized about how that branch of the FBI actually works, I grew out of it when I was 14. Seeing people talk about it like it's valuable information infuriates me so much.

[@Danielledaydreamer]

I love Criminal Minds, but I realize that it is a *fictional* TV show! It’s primary purpose is to be entertaining, not to function as a psychology textbook. Watching CM doesn’t make me a psychologist anymore than watching Grey’s Anatomy makes me a doctor.

[@dylankennedy4539]

So youre saying I shouldnt have cited Criminal Minds on my research paper?

[@christianwise637]

@@Danielledaydreamer There's a reason why, when you're a kid, your parents, teachers, or even the creators of the TV shows themselves, tell you not to imitate the characters you see on TV: THEY'RE NOT REAL. It's honestly troubling to think that so many people never really learned that lesson and insist on using their favourite media as a lens to view reality through (see also the Harry Potter fanbase)

[@mooreanonumbers]

It's scary how quickly everyone moved on after destroying this guy's life, it's hard to find relevant videos or articles or follow ups about this post-March. Gotta move on to the next villain of the day ASAP. Content brain.

[@khrysoskarnifex3292]

A huge problem is that when people on the internet gang up on someone who’s later proven to be innocent or misrepresented they think the lesson was that they ganged up on the wrong person, not that they didn’t have enough information and shouldn’t have mobbed someone at all. It’s a laughable cycle. Someone directs a personal complaint against another, the internet vilifies that person completely, new facts come to light and humanizes said person, internet switches targets to the original person who complained.

[@WisteriaWaves]

Ikr, people want to be an expert in all these fields but don’t care for actual facts. Only the ones that fit their agendas and the point they get across. I see this when people write neurodivergent people especially. “No, they cannot be emotionless, they can have a lack of displaying those emotions, but they are still going on underneath.” “But I want her to be emotionless, she is emotionless.” Is just an example.

[@rexonatyleer3500]

yup. its just mob mentality.

[@thanatoast]

Clearly, the way to fix the problems in society isn't to change the systems that allowed the problems in the first place. No, instead we should just find all the racists/sexists/homophobes/what have you that are living among us, waiting for their "mask off" moment and banish them to racist island forever, while we live in utopia.

[@kenetickups6146]

@@thanatoast Or we could fix the problems and kill all thr racists

[@chris_troiano]

The first time I remember seeing this was after the Sandy Hook shooting when early reports had had the wrong name for the shooter and named his brother instead. This poor man, whose mother was just murdered by his own brother in a horrifying mass shooting/suicide, was also being targeted on social media as though he was the guilty one.

[@MrFutago87]

As someone with social anxiety this is absolutely terrifying to me. Seeing how people can have their life destroyed by doing nothing really wrong or all that terrible reinforces to me that it would be better to never leave the house or get into any kind of relationship. All this just feeds my anxiety.

[@ShiftySetax]

Couldn't put it better. No one wants to step up on stage when the last guy got guillotined.

[@Trollestiatumblur]

As someone who is autistic adhd, this explains why so many people think certain things about me. Everyone thinks I’m suspicious and hiding something, I didn’t know it was because I couldn’t make eye contact and my fidgeting is perceived as “being anxious.” It’s absolutely laughable

[@rafaelgarciapadilla7324]

Reminds me of being bullied on elementary school for being “”weird””… literally triggering

[@Nadia1989]

Yes. Someone could make a video on tik tok claiming that I returned a tape to Blockbuster in 1996 without rewinding it and it could escalate to the point of getting messages at work accusing me of crimes against humanity without knowing what Blockbuster was. (Even though I didn't have a VCR until 1999!)

[@MerlinTheCommenter]

@グレゴリー it's because these pieces of $h!t feel entitled to someone else's time. This is what happens when people have grown up their entire lives without ever hearing "no."

[@nickchambers3935]

Feels a bit odd to say "Disclaimer: this is nothing against her" right before calling someone a serial killer

[@SpoopySquid]

"For legal reasons, this is a joke"

[@BrickBuster2552]

It's like the people who claim "fair use" when uploading an entire episode of Death Note to KZbin.

[@ADevilFromHeaven]

@@BrickBuster2552 i was thinking so much about death note while watching this

[@timothymclean]

@@ADevilFromHeaven Not surprising. The West Elm Caleb bashers are essentially advocating for a world where everyone has a Death Note, except that someone only dies if enough people write their name in their Death Notes. And I guess they haven't _literally_ called for the murder of any Twitter Protagonist of the Day...yet. Actually, that sounds like a fun premise for a speculative fiction story. Black comedy, but still comedic.

[@InvaderGIR98]

You can tell from the way Sarah holds her cup, always in every video, drawing attention to it and pouring to make sure we know its tea is clearly a desperate bid to subliminally convince us that it is in fact tea. It's definitely not tea. As an empath I see her cry for help, something is definitely very wrong here.

[@samyen3210]

I agree shes obviously gaslighting us. How toxic 🙄

[@cifge_404]

@@samyen3210 no, I think it's something more. Someone is pulling the strings here, forcing her to make videos like this. I bet it's Homestuck; they already gave her a legal threat, so it's not exactly a stretch to think they used it to force her to continue to bow down to their control under the threat of being left penniless and hated by all.

[@sorejack]

@@cifge_404 what do the clouds mean??? Did you see the halo? It matches the circle on her necklace! And Isn't the blinds arranged like a bar code? What does it all mean?

[@luminousbanjo]

But how many episodes of Criminal Minds have you watched?

[@InvaderGIR98]

​@@luminousbanjoAll of them, obviously. I've also watched Bones so I'm a qualified mortician

[@minidusa]

I really hate this trend of using feminist rhetoric to mask what are basically bullying and harassment campaigns. I feel like they do it because they know bullying is bad. So in order to continue to do it publicly they use feminism as an excuse. Please we have more important things to worry about than this one dude who ghosted you on a dating app.

[@hillary96renteria82]

Exactly. They use feminism as a shield for their opinions, because if you dare to disagree or point out the issues with their line of thinking their counter argument is "you just hate women" which doesn’t even make sense but it gives them an excuse not to actually respond to you criticism.

[@user-es7ui5mc1m]

i absolutely despise this whole brand of fake woke passive-aggressive "activism" because they'll literally cyber-bully someone and still think they're the bigger person because they pointed out the "problematic" thing and 'the person deserved it anyway'. Like they'll harrass someone and think *they're* the ones doing good???

[@scr9069]

While I agree that many people are just using feminism as an excuse for bullying and feel a sense of power/justice from hurting an "acceptable" target, I would be careful about painting literally everyone who does that with the same brush. Just from the example comments in OP's video, I suspect many of the people participating in these campaigns were genuinely hurt by guys like West Elm Caleb, and really believe they're doing something good by "holding him accountable". I do think what happened to him is way overboard, but I honestly don't have that much sympathy for the guy either-- he's neither an uncommon asshole nor the worst sort out there, but he's still an asshole, and I'd rather save my sympathy for people who deserve it more. I actually have more pity for those people with legitimate grievances, because they think they're accomplishing something meaningful by scapegoating this one guy. In reality, this will change absolutely nothing, because people like that don't ever think their actions will have actual consequences-- and for the most part, they're right. West Elm Caleb was a fluke, pure and simple. This is the same logic that has people thinking punishment actually deters crime, when criminals are already the kind of people who never count on getting caught. As for the rest (...) yeah, it's incredibly frustrating. They're mindlessly indulging in some of the worst impulses humanity has to offer, yet they're somehow under the pretention that makes them good people just because they get their kicks from victimizing "acceptable targets". Is it sometimes necessary to organize mass harassment campaigns against people in power to effect real change? Regrettably yes. Is it ever justifiable to participate in a hate mob against an ordinary person who has zero actual power? Hell no.

[@hillary96renteria82]

@@scr9069 genuinely believing you’re doing something good is different from actually doing something good. I doubt think the original comment was trying to imply that these people were consciously using feminism with malicious intent, but whether malicious or not the result was the same and it is important to criticize it that. Acknowledging the injustice that was done to Caleb does not mean being “anti-feminist” or “hating women” and it is incredibly important to point out this flawed way of thinking even if the person who thinks this way meant no ill will and was not consciously using feminism as a shield. Caleb is not a nice guy but having his full name, private information, and personal address leaked is NOT okay and I personally find this worth sympathizing considering the fact that his only real flaw was not texting back after a date or two

[@scr9069]

@@hillary96renteria82 You seem to be replying to me, but I'm not sure what about my comment you're replying to? Your first line is a good chunk of my second paragraph reduced to a snappy quip (not to be bitter or anything, lol), and I didn't say anything about whether those people were consciously using feminism with malicious intent or about how important it is to point out this kind of thing. I am, in fact, personally inclined to think that the vast majority of people don't consciously recognize when they're acting in bad faith. For the record, I disagree on the first point-- the comment implies that those doing the bullying know what they're doing is bad but use feminism as an excuse to do it anyway, which is intentionally malicious-- and agree wholly with the second. I commented because I felt it was worth it to point out that there are other potential reasons to act that way than being a bad faith feminist to bully people, not because I wanted to silence that critique, and I am again confused by your apparent impression that I felt otherwise. In any case, I think you're downplaying his flaws (he did worse things than just not texting back, even if he doesn't seem to be an actual abuser), but I agree that it isn't okay that Caleb was doxxed. Nor was it okay for people to try to get him fired or harass him in real life, and it especially wasn't okay for big companies to get in on the whole thing with an eye on profit. I don't have to sympathize with him to know that what happened to him was wrong, because no person nor group of people should be able to do that to an ordinary person with zero oversight. He's still an asshole, though, and it doesn't matter to me that he's not a particularly special kind of asshole. You're free to be sympathetic toward him as a person-- I can understand that feeling-- but I'm not personally going to waste pity on an asshole who played with people's hearts just because something bad happened to him.

[@sailorplanetmars6103]

Couch guy was really upsetting for a lot of reasons but... it really rings different. I spend a lot of time teaching and training forensic science students, and one thing we spend a lot of time talking about is bias control, and the way you need to take a lot of care to keep your evidence from giving the wrong message, and Couch Guy (and Sabrina, but I mostly missed her cause it wasn't really happening in places I was plugged into) was the biggest case study as to why that is that I've ever seen. You see these absolutely stupid assertions that are clearly made purely off bigotry - this person looks like something out of Silence of the Lambs so they're a serial killer. Monogamous heterosexuality is the only "correct" sexuality, so every boy is after every girl and every girl is after every boy, and any interaction between them is sexual in nature. Neurodivergent people don't exist, so non-normative social behaviour is a sign of lying, cheating, tricking, secrecy. We're all, at our core, bundles of biases parading as rational thinkers and the amount of WORK that you have to put in to minimise the impact this has on our judgement is unspeakably massive - too big for a single person to do. So I always find myself deeply concerned when people make these incredibly specific claims about people they see online with basically no basis, that are so convinced of the truth of that judgement that they cannot be talked down, because it's the same mechanic that is responsible for mounds of miscarriages of justice conducted through the courts throughout history, but decentralised and written large, and I wonder when - not if, but when - we'll find ourselves over the line into the history of irreparable violence the online culture is adopting.

[@allyli1718]

When you say that you spend a lot of time keeping evidence from giving the wrong message, what do you mean by that? It sounds really interesting, especially in the way it affects forensic science. Are you just teaching them that they can't let their assumptions color their work, or are you making sure that when they phrase things it doesn't accidentally lead to bad assumptions?

[@damien678]

this comment hits so different, fuck the couch guy situation must have felt like pulling teeth for a bloody forensics teacher hooooly shit

[@sailorplanetmars6103]

@@allyli1718 there's a lot of factors that go into it, but there's 3 most important ones we talk about with our students - their own bias, the bias they can engender in a jury and systemic biases we can't do much about, but need to be conscious of. A common adage in forensic science (which we stole from geneticists) is that you will always find what you look for. If you conduct your analysis operating under the assumption that a given result is more likely, you're going to find that result - even if it's actually completely false. This is true of all forms of science, but because forensic science in particular is a young field (most modern forensic science practice and research really only dates back to the 70s, with influence from seminal thinkers and practitioners only going back to the 1910s or so, versus something like physics which dates back about 8000 years), and because it is utilised in the context of a courtroom, it is uniquely vulnerable to this kind of bias. We have multiple controls in place for this kind of stuff (at least in my local jurisdictions, but this can vary a lot from place to place), where we try to limit the amount of information a forensic scientist receives, particularly with regard to the identity of the suspect, until their analysis is already complete, and developing and standardising processes in such a way that, should bias exist, it will favour the defendant's innocence over their guilt (in line with innocent until proven guilty). This is the kind of bias that is happening with TikTok sleuths - their brain is drawing a conclusion emotionally, instinctually, and they're backfilling the evidence to match. We also have a lot of work done with regards to trying to avoid engendering bias in juries. Forensic interpretation is my particular field of expertise, so I'm sharply aware that, even though we're trying hard, we're still not super good at it. Evaluating evidence involves complicated and counter-intuitive statistical reasoning, something that most jurors, for good reason, aren't familiar with. So we try to standadise our language in such a way that we can communicate a very specific and technical evaluation without needing everyone to have taken two years of college-level statistics to understand it. A typical evaluative statement will take the form, loosely, of "the evidence provides weak support for the claims made by the defence, over those made by the prosecutor" or "this evidence is moderately more likely given the prosecutor's claims than those of the defence". The most important feature here is that *both* versions of events are given equal consideration - there's no attempt to "prove" either version of events conclusively true, only to evaluate them in relation to each other. The system isn't perfect - even "weak support" will tip a juror right over the edge if they're really convinced of the defendant's guilt, but its the best system we have at the moment, at least for use in an adversarial justice system like the US, Australia or the UK. Structural biases in the court are well-trodden - it's just textbook racism, sexism, classism and queerphobia - but it's still important to be aware of them, even if we can't necessarily fix them. I'm sorry this turned out to be so long! But I hope it was at least interesting.

[@tempesttossed6029]

Very true!

[@joearnold6881]

@@sailorplanetmars6103 that was fascinating

[@Tortoiseshel]

"I don't have a psychology degree but I watch a lot of Criminal Minds" melted my brain. Excellent video as usual, Sarah.

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

I lol'ed

[@cassiebeal9646]

I honestly thought the girl was making some kind of satire, then I realized she was serious...

[@zinaak4194]

@@cassiebeal9646 same 😭

[@thalesanastacio760]

This is the type of shit i use to say as a joke. To seen it been said unironically is GREAT

[@JacklynBurn]

Damn near had to physically resist the urge to vomit, seen that kind of person too often in my life and it never goes well.

[@Igorcastrochucre]

Couch guy is my worst nightmare realized: trying my hardest to live my life without thinking if others are talking about me behind my back, and having hundreds of people judging my character from the very little they know about me. And my nightmare was about bumping into someone without apoligizing, not giving another person my seat fast enough or getting into a fight where it looks like I'm the worst person ever because I got a little heated for standing my ground. This dude was sent to the gallows for nothing, NOTHING and he wasn't even using the internet, it was someone else who uploaded his clip, so my worst nightmare became even worse.

[@ShirLibra]

“Abusers adopt the language of the abused, marginalisers adopt the language of the marginalised”. Brilliant! I need this in an article form to quote on every essay i write for uni from now on.

[@Jake-vf3yp]

There is standard format for citing KZbin in MLA now.

[@filipszwejser3945]

Sooooo you would like to adopt this kind of narration for your own personal use, right?

[@aazhie]

@@filipszwejser3945Spiders are bugs, not all bugs are spiders.

[@filipszwejser3945]

@@aazhie spiders are not bugs, they are arthropods.

[@lizardweedzard4495]

I think there's no actual definition to what a bug is because it's just a layman's way of referring to small insect-like animals.

[@shanisokay]

I think the most unnerving thing about this is even when you discuss how the west elm caleb thing has "passed" I have a feeling it hasn't "passed" for him. We bully people online and then months later when they express how much it hurt them, people say "Everyone is already over this why are you bringing it up!?" Which in itself is proof that the punishments are disproportionate. It's also disheartening to watch people miss the point again and again. For example, when people bullied Joshua Bassett because they presumed Olivia Rodrigo's album was about him and then it came out that he had suffered a severe health event brought on by the stress and anxiety, everyone turned around to point the blame at Olivia instead of searching inside themselves and seeing the harm they had done. It's just one dog pile on to the next. I really hope we can move past this behavior. It's honestly terrifying.

[@ethanomcbride]

Sarah has this way of diving deep into the nuance of public shaming, pulling out the most powerful details that are being ignored, forcing us to look at the harm we have done and, with kindness and understanding, shows us how we could do better. She doesn’t shame us for our sins, she doesn’t get angry, she doesn’t resort to using right-wing buzz words or any form of toxic tribalism. She simply cuts through the chaff and says what news to be said. THAT is how you change things for the better. THAT is how you use your voice to make a real difference. Sarah, you are bound for greatness.

[@jessica.L.edwards]

Hear, hear!

[@adamwise1111]

Most liberating thing I have learned on the internet: You never HAVE to engage with a piece of content. I have several times found myself typing an enraged comment or reply, paused, reflected on why I wanted to make that comment, and then deleted it. I have never once regretted NOT making a comment.

[@ItsAllNunya]

thank you SO much for calling out the constant use of "narcissist" as a nasty accusation and armchair diagnosis. i have NPD and its not just harmful but really tiring especially when its only ever used in context of abuse.

[@herebejamz]

@Kay E who the heck is paying you to post bad hot takes on literally every comment?

[@ainsopholli439]

@Kay E yo another person w/ bpd here you're doing to them what people do to us. if you got an opinion like this maybe just keep it to yourself

[@ItsAllNunya]

Oh shit what did I miss LMAO. I'm watching cartoons and I see some lovely people and missing comments-

[@ainsopholli439]

@@ItsAllNunya someone was just adding stigma to people with NPD by using their BPD and experience with narcissistic abuse. as someone with BPD myself and suffered through narcissistic abuse, i assure you that most of us don't make judgement until we notice that type of action so pay it no mind

[@ItsAllNunya]

@@ainsopholli439 rip. a point of unintentional ableism: abuse perpetuated by someone with NPD is not caused by their NPD, and abuse that aligns with what people call "narcissistic abuse" isnt usually being done by a pwNPD, just somebody assumed to be one. there are cases where the abuser DOES have diagnosed, bonafide, confirmed somehow NPD, but i havent been able to find more than a few out of hundreds who can say it for certain. Abuse is serious, including emotional and psychological abuse which gets overlooked a lot; Narcissists who choose to abuse to get power trips out of it are not Special Narcissists, theyre bad people outside of that. using "narcissistic abuse" only stigmatizes NPD further by associating a whole mental illness(that most often comes with a lot of abuse history) with abuse. its true to some degree that some Cluster B personalities "are more prone to abuse others" but ASPD polled the prison population primarily, and i sincerely doubt the NPD research did better. specifying the kind of abuse(physical, emotional, psychological, sxual) and talking about who did it being awful is more productive than making it harder for people who dont really have the ability to seek therapy. by ability i mean we can go, but the therapy they currently have for us doesnt really work. they need to change something but instead call us "resistant to treatment". anyway.

[@thetaarakian]

I think couch guy also shows a another important aspect of how dangerous this is. This wasn't his video. It was a video someone else posted with him in it. You could have a minimal online presence and still become the target of the machine just from being in someone else's content. That's nuts. You could distance yourself all you want from social media and still get fed into the machine.

[@kioraslate9273]

It reminds me of how there was a trend of justifying this kind of harassment with something to the effect that people open themselves up to it just by virtue of sharing things online. "If you can't handle it then get off the internet" and all that. And all I could think of was the Star Wars kid being bullied out of school for a video that was uploaded without his consent.

[@paperpersona1243]

I mean to be fair he was the subject of the video. They were filming his reaction to seeing his gf, but I still get your point.

[@alligatorjonesphd]

Yep, there is the idea that 'they asked for it' (attention) for people who post themselves online, when that doesn't apply to people who have no consented to being filmed and posted online. He was not in public, this wasn't caught on a security camera. He was in an apartment, chilling on a couch with his friends.

[@cherry-colouredpunk]

It's crazy because it was originally the content of someone very close with him, but essentially became something neither of them owned anymore. It got claimed by the public. Your girlfriend posting a small clip of you with good intentions becoming something so hateful, something neither of you were able to control, is almost scary.

[@feelingveryattackedrn5750]

Okay the other thing with couch guy that I remember thinking when I saw it was, even if they have something going on where hes not faithful or whatever thats *their* issue and I was pretty deeply embarrassed for both of them that everyone in the comments was immediately like "oh hes totally cheating on her". Like she just wanted to do something fun and cute and he didnt even consent to the vid or prep to be in it. People should really understand how to separate "real life" videos on tiktok from peoples actual real lives.

[@bangboom123]

Fundamental to all these kinds of stories is an inability to admit that people can be a bit shitty without being explicitly harmful. We have these collective purges to convince ourselves that we're the good ones living up to all the impossible ideals we set for ourselves.

[@LolLemonz_]

34:01 "there is still this underlying notion that there exists a right person to hurt, and that by harming that kind of person, we are making the world a better place" that one hit different

[@timroarty505]

The couch guy situation is a perfect example of "knowing just enough to be dangerous." The amount of times people said they watched criminal minds, heard about something similar with someone they knew, or took psych 101 so that gives their opinion weight is staggering. Especially talking about body language, where they only know enough to the point that it tells you "something" but in no way have the tools to accurately or reasonably pull out anything of substance

[@tatherva7387]

I had an ex-friend who would do this to me all the time. Took one Psych 101 course with Purdue and suddenly everything I did was being analyzed and fed back to me through psycho-babble. Nothing I did could just be a thing I did, it all had to be part of some diagnostic. Strap in cause this'll be a long reply lol Bouncing my leg because I'm restless from staying indoors? A symptom, I can't sit still. Not wanting to be talked at with no regard for my own concerns and feelings? A symptom, anti-social behavior. Not wanting to randomly be interrupted and info-dumped on about something I have zero interest in at 2am when I'm trying to wind down for bed? A symptom, avoidant behavior. Avoiding eye contact because if I engage with her I wont be free from her ranting at me for the next two hours? A symptom, aversion to eye contact. Being upset after the 5th night in a row of no meaningful sleep? A symptom, bad emotional regulation. It never ended. The only way to not be mentally ill in her eyes was to be a robot, and even then that'd probably be a symptom too. According to her I apparently have ADHD, and several other things but that's the one I remember because it came up the most. Even though I'm affected by uppers like caffeine and several actual licensed psychiatrist told me in no uncertain terms that I do not have ADHD. But hey, what do they know? She also diagnosed herself with ADHD too. Even though she's also made more alert, energetic, and focused from caffeine and adderral. Most of her reasoning for me having ADHD was that she relates to me. So basically, she experienced human empathy for once and thought I must have something wrong with me. And as a result kept pushing me to see new doctors, to push for a diagnosis because the doctors are just corrupt and don't wanna give you the meds you DESERVE, and pushed me to take adderral that she bought from drug dealers to "help" me. I know this is long but seriously, if you have someone in your life whose doing this, RUN. I wish I'd ghosted her much sooner. She really messed with my head, ironic given the circumstances. Now I'm addicted to caffeine because of her convincing me it would help with "my ADHD," but my god it could've been so much worse if I kept letting her push addy on me. Turns out I have a completely different condition that is made WORSE by adderral, not better. She legitimately could've killed me. So when you say "knowing just enough to be dangerous" that is not an exaggeration. Take it from me, when people say dangerous they don't just mean bad for your mental state, they mean DANGEROUS. If your friend is diagnosing you with anything on a regular basis, pack your stuff and head for whatever direction is far, far away from them. And if you're really concerned, see an actual doctor, and actually listen to them when they tell you you're wrong.

[@maezelbop]

In Psych 101, you learn you can psychoanalyze anyone. In Psych 202, you learn that you should not.

[@dvillines26]

While I absolutely agree with Sarah's "this is a systemic issue driven by corporate profit" I also think there IS a thing individuals can do about this situation. And that is DON'T MAKE THESE KIND OF TIKTOKS. And do not give engagement to the people who make this kind of content regularly. Individually, that doesn't do much, but at the very least you can easily choose not to be part of the problem, and that's something. I think the downfall of expertise and the compulsion to have an opinion on something and stay "engaged" feed into this. But while I always still enjoy giving my take on things, if I had any kind of platform for those takes, if I had more than like ten or so people on Twitter that regularly like my posts, I would have to be socially responsible. As it is, I'm probably too mean, and definitely should stop ever engaging in dogpiles against non blue checks. but people with real followings have to hold themselves ruthlessly to a higher standard. That's how we SHOULD understand internet fame - you trade some of your ability to speak freely and without consequence for reach and positive regard. That reach and positive regard, though, ought to be contingent on your ability to use your platform with a modicum of responsibility and not be a dick. The algorithm incentivizes dick moves, though, but we don't have to play that game if we make an active decision not to. On your own, doing that won't do much, but if you can convinced everyone else in your trust circles not to do it, and they convince people in theirs, and so on, someday we might have a coherent movement against clout bullying.

[@9000ethanator]

I audibly groaned at the “but I watch Criminal Minds” TikTok

[@vivi_stardust]

ghosting is a rude thing to do. it is not abuse.

[@lyanacat1943]

I honestly don't even think it's rude. Jarring yeah. But shit happens, people fall away. I wonder if the expectation of immediate connection that we have these days is part of it. Because it just didn't get the same kind of reaction before the smart phone.

[@mechanomics2649]

@@lyanacat1943 It's rude in the way that just walking away from a conversation in the middle of it is.

[@lyanacat1943]

@@mechanomics2649 See that's exactly what I mean; texting to me is still akin to writing a letter. Talking on the phone or talking face to face is different. Not saying it's not hurtful, just that society has definitely shifted.

[@unit0007]

Trying to look at this thing as objectively as I possibly can being a biased human and all, I don't think it is even rude. It is inconsiderate, indifferent, not in line with decorum, and not polite. But failing to be actively nice and considerate doesn't default to being rude in western society. Being rude implies some actively rude behavior, not simply the absence of politeness. Everybody has full right to arbitrarily unmatch or ghost anyone on the dating market. And in the polite-rude spectrum it falls somewhere in the middle, that I don't have a word for. It doesn't feel nice when it happens to you, but rejection never does, regardless of how politely it is done.

[@radiationshepherd]

Yeah for real, also the safest option in many cases

[@o_spins]

the fact that brands can join in public humiliation now is really weird

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

You know what my psych professors in college all had in common? None of them ever mentioned body language.

[@kyrus4989]

Same. Well, the one who did bring it up mentioned that it was a bullshit science and supposed human lie detectors were scam artists.

[@TransSappho]

It frustrates me so fucking much how the meaning behind “gaslight” has been eroded. It’s a genuinely important term for talking about and identifying abuse, but when it just means lying it breaks the ability to help identify abusers

[@justas423]

The internet waters down a lot of phrases, even just harmless jokes get watered down by endless repetition.

[@AshB78]

'lovebomb,' too. It's a tactic cults use to get you to replace all of your social circle with cult members so they can isolate you, not something fucking Jeremy, who you've gone on like, two dates with, is doing by texting you a lot.

[@turner15]

Yeah as someone whose been abused this is very irritating.

[@TransSappho]

@@turner15 yeah my partner’s ex was abusive and gaslit them in the literal sense of the word and it’s honestly made it harder for them to identify what he did as wrong because the term has been neutered so much

[@gothicGumshoe]

On your note about terms like gaslighting and lovebombing being used casually: I genuinely didn't realise the abusive tactics my ex was using on me because I thought of the terms as the watered down versions they've become and was wholly unable to recognise what he was doing. As serious as they are they can be very discreet when you're unaware of them. We dated for six months - it's been a year since we broke up and I still have trust issues. It might take some serious therapy yet to work through what happened with us. Real abuse is not lighthearted.

[@jklroxmysox111]

As an actual (licensed) therapist, I totally agree

[@joshk.]

I still struggle to come to terms with the legitimate idea I had been "gaslit" due to how casually the word is thrown around. If I say to myself "I have been gaslit", it just sounds exaggerated and silly, even though the actual term is pretty damn serious

[@yukiandkanamekuran]

That's why people taking this terms in general and ending up gatekeeping them instead of educating others is harmful. Like people meme-ifying and making a huge joke about victims using them takes away from it. Most victims of gaslighting don't know they're being gaslit, they're more confused if their abuser was telling the truth or not. And to be honest, that guy could have lovebombing, we don't know his feelings and whether he really meant it or not. So even if that term is semi-inappropriate, we don't have all the information. A lot of abuse fucks you up for years to come, and can take you a long time to realize it. These words don't deserve to be used as jokes or taken from victims or trauma spaces.

[@anaiaram]

as someone who has been learning to manage my bpd and abandonment issues for years, the way people usually talk about ghosting is mind-boggling. yes recognizing your hurt is important but using that sort of catastrophic language is so dangerous. if i let myself get carried away like that i could accuse anyone, even a friend who forgot to reply for a couple of days because they had a hard week, of abusing me. it's extremely worrying how normalized it has become.

[@Prederick]

"Catastrophizing language" is a great way to put it. A thing cannot simply be "rude," "impolite," or even "dickish" anymore, it must be borderline, if not outright criminal. But, like.... a VAST berth of human behavior falls underneath he auspices of "rude" but is not "abuse" or criminal. The dude who cut me in line at the sandwich place today is a douche, he's not an abuser. And that's okay! I'm sure I've been a rude douche at some point and time, it's part of the glorious imperfections and contradictions of being human.

[@useroffline9999]

this is by far the most troubling aspect to me. seeing the way people talk about these issues and thinking "oh, that sounds just like the irrational thoughts that i'm fighting every day to avoid hurting myself or others." i agree with the above reply about "catastrophizing language" it sums things up perfectly.

[@mckymcobvious3043]

@@useroffline9999 I'm honestly really proud of both of you, i really _cannot_ handle tiktok, Twitter or tumblr, they all foster such a terrifyingly toxic culture, and _nobody ever_ takes a step back to look at the abusive harassment campaigns they're gleefully participating in to consider the lines they've kept crossing to bring it this far. it's clear that _way too many_ people just don't HAVE the commendable insights that the two of you have and are actively applying to help youselves and everyone around you. so yeah, I find that touching and for that I'm very proud

[@samwarren2850]

"true crime brain poisoning online" YES YES YES! Missing persons and crimes and murders aren't your fun little mystery to solve online with your buds, they're real life people with real pain that don't deserve to have every aspect of their lives dissected in a public venue. True crime can be really interesting to talk about but I only support true crime that talks about older cases that don't impact people currently (like Buzzfeed unsolved true crime) or things that actually interview and talk to the people involved in a respectful way (like the Dr Death podcast). people really, really need to examine the consequences of their online behavior. this isn't just a game, it's real life.

[@Randompersonnumber3]

Yes! I love true crime but the latest story sweeping the news isn't some Hunt-a-killer game where you can solve it! Hell, for Gabby Petito's boyfriend people were CONVINCED he was hiding in a bunker in his parent's backyard because... they bent down near it? It was so ridiculous!

[@DogNamedWatson]

There are some true crime podcasts where I think it's valid to do recent cases, though. Some Place Under Neith is one that focuses exclusively on missing women, and most of their cases are recent, but it's not to exploit and sensationalize stories, it's because mostly they tell stories of missing women and girls who otherwise wouldn't get wide media attention (women of colour, indigenous women, impovrished women/girls, trans women, sex workers, etc.,) and making these names public and keeping these stories told can help in these women being located.

[@callusklaus2413]

This is gonna sound tubro pretentious but I don't know how else to phrase it: Your ability to pull apart, examine and then show how complicated social systems, the systems that make us think the way we do or react the way we do, and make the watcher come to terms with their implications, is incredible! Thanks for posting!

[@heatherlee2967]

+

[@lordknightalex]

as an autistic person who masks and has anxiety, it feels like this whole thing with recording and judging strangers becoming more and more common, all those little things ive taken years to learn were only the anxiety talking could be real now "what if everyone sees me experience this small fuckup and i become the laughing stock of a whole country's worth of people" shouldn't be a rational fear and yet here we are

[@TheKlikluk]

I totally get you. I myself am not autistic but one of my best friends is. Heck even as a "normal" cishet white guy I am afraid of this happening to me. Thats why I very rarely engage with people online anyways. But just in this case wanted to stop by and give you a digital supportive hug. We gotta be more kind to each other.

[@lordknightalex]

@@TheKlikluk Thanks dude, i appreciate it /gen

[@e.t.2437]

Seriously.

[@laurena9563]

@@TheKlikluk Literally! It's why I'm terrified of dating online- I'm a very private person naturally, but the thought of my messages and my personal photos being shared without my consent and to someone I thought respected me enough to respect my boundaries as a person- terrifying. TikTok even has series where people film random people on the street, and it's my worst nightmare to think I might randomly being filmed by someone at any given time, lol. People should really be aware of the ramifications of their actions. :\

[@jfs983]

It's terrifying. I already feel like an alien wearing a human suit at the best of times, now I need to worry about the entire internet judging me for it? Geez louise.

[@Kentaiga]

The assumptions about Couch Guy and Sabrina were just downright evil, playing with their lives like its a game.

[@cottage-core_]

so ironically dehumanizing. you're exactly right, it's just a game to these people

[@jamestown8398]

That's right. They immediately jumped to the worst possible assumptions, showing no charity or benefit of doubt to these strangers whose lives they know nothing about. The behaviors shown (giving someone a stiff hug, dancing in a garage) could have hundreds of possible innocent explanations.

[@nayeliwhite242]

I always used to wonder how women were condemned as witches and no one questioned it, but these scenarios have painted a clear picture. They choose a target, find a way to justify it, and "burn" them. Albeit more humane, it is very clear to see this was the same process that once killed women or other prisoners.

[@lakamokolaka]

"He cheated on that girl look at how weridly he moves!" No, he just sat on a couch then gave awkward hug. Did no one ever assume he just might not like hugs?

[@satinsleeves]

Or that's just how he hugs? Like it didn't even seem that weird to me???

[@CatHasOpinions734]

Or might just not like being on camera? Like, I'm extremely camera shy, I can't stand when people pull a camera out when I'm not braced for it, to the point that my partner's immediate reaction anytime anyone does that is to try to comfort me because I know it's weird and do my best not to freak out in front of strangers, but I will probably fail if I don't have someone I trust helping me keep my cool at least a little bit. I haven't seen this clip, but I can guarantee you that if what happened to that guy had happened to me I would have been at least as awkward and tense, and it horrifies me that that's enough to attack someone over.

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

Hell, he could have just been tired. People tend to move less when they're tired, and it seemed to be really late in that clip.

[@jeanwire3221]

Or he was surprised, had been focused on the video game, and was trying to figure out whether to first introduce his girlfriend to his friends or greet her.

[@samuelgranger8374]

That hug didn't even seem that weird to me. Guess I shouldn't date, I might be exposed as a cheater!

[@jp-wc4ce]

god i HATE it when people decide it's amateur psychology hour and make judgements about total strangers based on nothing but short videos. it's bad enough when it leads to harassment and dog piling but i've heard of people being *accused of murder* just because internet know-it-alls decide they were "acting suspiciously" or w/e. it's just not ok. EDIT: I actually wrote this just before getting to the part of the video where we see that string of Couch Guy tiktoks and needless to say, 🙃

[@BrokenHedgehog]

Body-language reading, for the most part, is also total pseudo-science.

[@mars_is_cooler]

I keep seeing cute couple videos and I'm like "Awh let me check the comments" but the comments will be like "Omg she forced him to do this" "Omg the way he looked at her best friend..." "Omg I can tell they aren't a good couple"

[@wildcatghoulette1822]

What killed me: "I don't have a degree in psych but I am a fan of Criminal Minds". Yes, please, amateur Emily Prentiss, please tell us how a fictional show, written by writers, trained you to be an expert in body language analysis.

[@maggiedk]

@@wildcatghoulette1822 lmao, not only that - but a show that's been widely dismissed by actual criminal psychologists as being extremely unrealistic.

[@jp-wc4ce]

@@wildcatghoulette1822 YES and the way it was delivered like some sort of epic clap-back made me want to chew on glass

[@tophergerkey]

The pop-culture flanderization and erosion-of-meaning of terms like "gaslight" and "narcissist" and (oh man does this one burn me) "trigger" is super worrisome to me.

[@TheeOnlyDjinn]

That super pisses me off too, as someone who has done a lot of therapy over the years the word triggered for me was related to the long process of identifying parts of my life that were harmful and how to manage those parts. Now people throw it around like it's a joke, "you a little upset?" triggered, raise your voice a little, triggered. You annoyed about how people use the word triggered, triggered. I'm working myself up now lol. Just had to say it.

[@Sofiaode18]

A girl in my dorm threw a public hissy fit about something that wasn't a big deal, so I called her out on it and she freaked out by saying that I was minimizing her experiences and gaslighting her. Gaslighting is a very specific phenomenon that cannot happen in one conversation so it's irritating that a word that describes a serious situation is now being used by people online to victimize themselves.

[@TheVivaciousNerd]

I completely agree, it's really troubling. As someone who was gaslit for a long time (my own mother told me for years that the abuse I experienced wasn't abuse at all, and that I was wrong or weird for having a problem with it), it really messed with my head, specifically my trust in my own memories and even my sense of right and wrong (basically I learned not to trust my gut on such things). This lead to me developing PTSD, which came with triggers. Being triggered is not at all like being offended. Hell, I was once seriously triggered by a door slamming in the wind! Not because it was wrong or offensive, but because my mind was in a constant state of panic and fear, and being suddenly scared like that took me right into my fears. More direct/typical triggers even lead to regression and/or flashbacks at the peak of my mental illness. The pop-ification of these specific mental health terms robs me of very useful language to communicate my experiences and my needs to other people. (Edit: correcting punctuation)

[@Lucky_Dagger]

@@TheeOnlyDjinn yeah and trigger can also have positive experiences like smelling freshly baked cookies and triggering vivid memories of the time you baked cookies with a family member or close friend.

[@weregretohio7728]

I hate how "triggered" is a meme word for Internet fuckboys.

[@MouseSPAL]

At 26:36 when that woman said that she had no psychology degree but watched a lot of true crime and was going to analyze "couch guy", I just sputtered. We can "analyze" true crime videos because we have the hindsight that most of the people being shown there are criminals and have done terrible things. By the time the criminal is sat down and being interrogated, police have already down an investigation and have evidence. Also, what about all of the innocent people that are interrogated but true crime channels don't show because it won't bring in views? How can someone say that they're going to use their skills to analyze someone's body language when they've seen nothing but postives? No negatives, no false positives, just positives of a criminal looking like a criminal. Trying to analyze someone from a short, one time, random clip is such a stretch.

[@LegendofZelderon]

It's so much worse, she didn't say she watches a lot of true crime, she said she watches a lot of Criminal Minds, a fucking crime serial tv show. The source of her "knowledge" is literally episodic, dramatic fiction.

[@LegendofZelderon]

What do you think it is? A degree program in criminal psychology?

[@Prederick]

@@LegendofZelderon "I may not be in NASA, but I've watched Gundam Wing several times, so I know about space."

[@phoenixfritzinger9185]

@@Prederick “wait what do you mean that Gundanium isn’t real… or that putting those little flicky things into your eyebrows looks dumb?” Like at least Endless Waltz kinda explained how the slingshot effect works but like literally everybody should have been ground to a fine paste by the G-forces they experienced in the first couple of episodes

[@morganalabeille5004]

Analyzing Jessie Misskelley's interrogation tapes or other known cases of false confessions and wrongful convictions would be so much more useful to society

[@NoFirstNoLastName]

Thank you for bringing up Lindsay. She really did deserve better, and many still haven’t learned.

[@hope-cat4894]

And some people keep spreading lies that she fired her employees without warning. Even when she's not online, they are still trying to kick her. People are irritating. 😒

[@punkrockmusiclover19]

This reminds me of a guy I dated in high school who would date girls, drop them, and be dating someone else in the next week. Eventually we agreed he was an asshole, but “abusive” never crossed my mind. He was a kid too, and he was looking for love and affirmation due to some issues in his home life. That doesn’t make his actions okay, but it also doesn’t make him an abuser! I’m very glad I missed this window of social media when I was young.

[@Spamhard]

Exactly. Especially on dating apps that are basically set up for this system of dating many people at once without any commitment. Just because to date someone and have a good time, doesn't mean they owe you their attention. Is it shitty to lead people on and then ghost them? Yeah. But it's not abusive. I admittedly haven't done a huge amount of research into the whole west elm guy (I really don't want to add to it) but it doesn't sound like much of what he did was even particularly creepy or disrespectful. I have to wonder if this had been a woman if the same dogpilers wouldn't have been up in arms about slut shaming. Shit situation all around just made worse by the internet mob.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

I feel like women do this way more than men and men react by either accepting its part of the game or becoming incels lol

[@marmartin9822]

The pathologist has language is extremely concerning to me. Some background: My spouse is autistic. He’s not subtle with affection. He comes home from work and his reaction to seeing me is “MAR!! *glomp* I LOVE YOU!!!” One time I vented to friends in a private discord chat about him buying a video game without my knowledge (I was frustrated because I was going to buy him that game and didn’t know what to get him for his birthday now). I realized I was a little harsh/dramatic so I deleted the rant. Within five minutes I get the following message “OMG Mar are you safe?! Is *spouse* financially abusing you? I’ve seen how he lovebombs you he’s so toxic! Did he force you to delete your message? Do you need help getting out?!?!” I respond, “No, I am safe. I deleted the message because I realized I blew things out of proportion. Thank you for your concern though. It’s great that you care about your friends :)” Friend goes, “DONT LET HIM GASLIGHT YOU. You deserve better! He’s abusive. I can call someone who can get you everything you need to get away from him!” She meant well and I managed to talk her down but damn.

[@nuclearbiologist]

Jeez

[@Lucky_Dagger]

As someone who is autistic i really appreciate your understanding. Sometimes even friendships can be weird because friends might be weirded out by my insistence to pay for their movie ticket because i enjoy hanging out with them. I only have a few friends who i still do this with now because they have stuck around so long.

[@rosenberg2497]

Completely off topic, but I love the use of “glomp”

[@sulaf604]

Oof, that sounds so uncomfortable, especially with a friend.

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

Lmao RIP to any guy that dates her. He's gonna get bombarded with false accusations.

[@ItsNumber84]

I hadn't heard about the couch guy thing, that's horrifying. I'm autistic and dyspraxic, and my facial expressions/body language can be all kinds of janky. Being judged on it by the entire world to the point of conspiracy theories is my new worst nightmare.

[@miseryfell6417]

I've got ADHD and I'm a walking stereotype lol. I'm always tapping my hands, wiggling my toes, and I even have involuntary head jerks. I wonder what idiotic assumption TikTok would make about me if I had the worst luck and went viral. Am I a skittish, unstable killer? Am I so nervous and fidgety because I'm cheating on my partner?

[@knight1706]

@@miseryfell6417 I think you may be a secret alien in disguise.

[@butasimpleidiotwizard]

@@miseryfell6417 legit I have adhd autism and fnd so weird fucked up body language is my whole existence, I'm always worried when I start getting twitchy that people are going to think I'm on meth or something, more recently I've been scared people are going to accuse me of faking tourettes even though what I get aren't even tics they're myoclonic jerks that are caused my very real medically diagnosed neurological disorder and I can't help them and they're really fucking uncomfortable and annoying, I hate tiktok so fucking much it's perfected this whole "bullying but pretend it's activism" thing it makes me want to never leave my house

[@carter7517]

I'm autistic and the idea of millions of strangers drawing conclusions about a person and their body language (utter bs imo) from a ten-second clip of them makes me break out in a cold sweat.

[@christianwise637]

That one TikTok user claiming that "I haven't got a psychology degree, but I'm qualified to psychoanalyse couch guy's body language because I've seen every episode of Criminal Minds" is such a damning indictment of how out of touch most of these people are. Watching BBC Sherlock doesn't make you a detective, being able to memorise everything House M.D. says doesn't mean you're a doctor, and watching every single Star Wars film doesn't make you qualified to be an astronaut. Just because you've consumed a piece of fictional media doesn't mean you have the same skills as the fictional characters in real life. The people you're targeting are real, stop treating these situations like you're in an episode of your favourite TV show! (And yes, it is alarming how often these kinds of "progressive" behaviour end up looping back around into ableism and transphobia)

[@raro344]

In the same way is she said that sound more like a fan gushing about a show they totally like or no and the next episode is going to be, she sound more like the typical "will do it or not" fangirl. Which is hella creepy giving this.

[@EckhartsLadder]

phenomenal video and essay. I've been trying to talk to people about the retributive justice angle, esp during the early pandemic, so was really happy to see that brought up.

[@kozhedub]

Hey it's my favorite Star Wars (and other stuff) channel

[@user-xd6ee2zz4m]

This is one hell of a crossover

[@HotCoco_]

What in the fuck...Justin?! You're here??

[@Jay-fs2nw]

Dude I just came back from watching some of your videos and saw you post, was not expecting it

[@CaedesSkyrim]

What the crossover fuck?

[@samanthaB98]

that couch guy thing and the connection sarah made with neurodivergency hit for me i look visibly guilty whenever i'm doing pretty much anything because that's just how my autism manifests my eyes are constantly averted, my shoulders are hunched, i'm shifty, i'm awkward and i am certainly not a cheating abuser (not that i have anyone to cheat on lmoa)

[@AracheNerd]

I'm glad someone else is talking about this stuff, cuz im on the spectrum and commonly do things that makes it look like I'm lying (smiling a lot or laughing while I tell the truth is one I remember most that's gotten me in trouble) and like... people on the internet/people in general looking at ONLY body language to determine everything about you is SO bullshit. I hate hearing it and it's humiliating to have to go through someone analyzing you like that and making false assumptions

[@theglasswolf3206]

@@AracheNerd - the smiling / laughing when telling the truth hit me hard, especially as another person on the spectrum. It’s something I’ve been doing for my entire life, and I always thought I was the only one who does it. It makes me feel awful when I know I’m telling the truth, but other people think I’m lying. And there’s no way to get them to believe me, simply because I cannot stop laughing. I also hate lying, so idk why people think that it’s something I’d actively want to do.

[@toadflaxflower]

i have severe anxiety and sensory processing disorder and exhibit a lot of this behavior as well (i may have autism as well but I'm not looking into a diagnosis currently). this led to me being accused of shoplifting one time, and the staff threatened to call the cops on me I sti have trauma from that and cops still make me feel like I'm in immediate severe danger, the way society treats neurodivergent people due to stereotypical 'suspicious' behavior (among other things) is so fucking shitty

[@Homodemon]

Well, according to the criminal minds fans you're probably a serial gaslighter, probably have 5 wives across the country and also you've got at least two (2) bodies hidden under the floorboards.

[@monbub]

I have multiple mental illnesses so I can relate! On the outside, I seem like a really rude and unapproachable person, but on the inside, I'm just trying my best to be normal. It's painful when people ignore me because I don't smile as much as others.

[@VampyreDream]

As an autistic person who's had many of my actions questioned for being "suspicious" it is comforting to see others call attention to it. Especially with armchair psychologist words constantly being misused, two years ago I had told a friend she had hurt my feelings and was met with screaming that I was "gaslighting" her into thinking she was a bad person. People need to not only use different words, but also learn how to actually understand what they are feeling or experiencing instead of grabbing whatever buzz word they saw on twitter last.

[@pattysalazar6823]

THIS, makes relationships even harder to navigate!

[@IsaacIsaacIsaacson]

People in the 21st century: Haha the medieval people were so primitive, lynching people, public hangings and burning witches. We could never also people in the 21st Century:

[@christianwise637]

"This guy picked his nose in public, this is concrete proof he's a sexual predator!"

[@weregretohio7728]

I love how so many people think they're above the past and living in an advanced civilization way above animalism... like they say, people don't learn from the past, they merely repeat it. How many times does one have to hear that, for instance, Nazism or racism can't exist, or whatever else? People don't change.

[@setheus]

The commodification of therapeutic language is one of the most horrifying things that's happened in the last few years. Growing up, everyone would say "ugh, I hate my parents," and the like, so it took until I was an adult to realize that they didn't actually mean it, and that the real sentiment wasn't normal. That I Did have literal c-ptsd, they Were literal narcissists and abusers, that I Was literally gaslit, that hating them was warranted and that the appropriate response isn't a sympathetic laugh. If I had that problem with regular hyperbolic language, what's going to happen to those who will grow up with the terminology equated to high-school drama? Especially the neurodivergent like me, who have trouble differentiating between figurative and literal? I'm so, so afraid for the coming years of all the people going through abuse, having been robbed of the language to address it. Worse still, I'm afraid for those who won't make it until these terms fall out of fashion.

[@elyca6329]

As a psychologist, I agree wholeheartedly

[@rachael5025]

literally same

[@sorejack]

It should be said, that gaslighting isn't just manipulation, it's the rewriting of a person's experience and memory, to the point of pushing a person to question their sanity. I am so sorry you went through that. I felt the need to clarify, because it is awful and it's current use in the lexicon of today waters it down.

[@fifinoir]

@@sorejackAlso, doesn’t gaslighting have intent behind it? Like a person suffering from something like dementia or some other memory altering condition might actually think what they are saying is true and have conviction with it enough to convince the other person what actually happened, didn’t happen or other way around. But even in that way it isn’t gaslighting because the intent wasn’t to manipulate the other person. It was either confusion or defensiveness about the situation or memory loss.

[@TenderNoodle]

Being robbed of the laungage to address trauma and mental illness is a brilliant way to put it. Normal people have co-opted serious, life ruining symptoms and conditions to make their problems look more legitimate or to make themselves look smarter and it is infuriating. It’s now nearly impossible to tell if someone has serious trauma and/or abuse, or if they just like using terms they heard on tiktok to describe normal unpleasant experiences.

[@Princess_Weekes]

This whole thing has been bizarre to see! Great coverage

[@ListensToStuff]

I'm off social media, so people like Sarah Z and yourself are how I am shown that now totally foreign place. No pressure :)

[@izunahosaki6133]

Yay! Love your videos

[@joshofthewilds7265]

I'm a therapist and am so so fed up about the abuse of mental health language and mental health in general. I try to push back in my own way but goodness at this point I'm just exhausted.

[@flytrapYTP]

"omg this gives me so much serotonin" "I'm so hyperfixating on this" "literally gaslit by the Starbucks guy today omw to work"

[@graquinn4058]

everyone has a disorder, and it's always defined in a manner that doesn't mean "life-ruining, dysfunction-causing, seriously distressing ILLNESS", but "cutesy uwu soft special condition that makes me cute and sympathetic". if you say "actually depression isn't just being sad" they say "ugh, gatekeeper" like it's a fandom

[@JaneDoe_123]

SAME! I've had to curate my online feeds because I couldn't put up with it anymore

[@eevee2Glacia]

I hate the couch guy one because it just reads to me as "I'm going to punish any autistic person I see because they're not confirming to my ideas of what's a proper emotional response". Not that couch guy is autistic, just that that is the exact mentality people have towards autistic people that constantly puts our lives in danger. You don't know body language, no one knows body language. The way a person moves can vary based on culture, neuro divergencies, whether or not they have disorders, or hell they can just move differently. This type of thinking is inherently ableist and kinda xenophobic in some aspects and I don't understand why so many people try to use it especially when they're not professionals.

[@jonathanlgill]

I think Sarah spoke on something really pertinent when she mentioned that one of the negative consequences of True Crime videos/podcasts is that it turns people into armchair psychoanalysts, where they start thinking they can read "essential" character traits based on simple gestures like nodding your head.

[@CaulkMongler]

Or the idea that we can draw entire stories and conclusions from a short clip.

[@eevee2Glacia]

@@CaulkMongler that too! Honestly we're never given the full story with such short clips and I'm unsure why that's almost always the case

[@eevee2Glacia]

@@jonathanlgill I agree completely!

[@adorabell4253]

@@jonathanlgill It's the "body language experts analyze xyz" videos too. It's especially crazy to me when they do it to people who are not used to being on screen, everyone acts weird on camera unless they have specifically trained to not act weird.

[@d0cf0x4]

The discussion of the panopticon really resonated for me, and the fear of public shaming has affected me personally and professionally even though I specifically have never been publicly shamed. It's caused me to avoid expressing my opinion except pseudo-anonymously or in a context where I don't face digital repercussions for being wrong or for my transgressions.

[@hope8011]

i know this comment is two months old, but i genuinely feel the same way. the idea that at any moment i could be dragged for a different opinion, my personal appearance, or even just someone saying i did something bad 4+ years ago has caused me to be a digital hermit. my only forms of social media are fb (to talk to my family), youtube, and reddit (both of which are kept so i do not give out any information regarding personal info). even in my personal life with my friends, i keep any differing opinions or even things i find them doing that are negative to myself, as they all share the same mob mentality which is shared in this video . in some ways i feel better than i have in the past, where my instagram felt more like a numbers game, however being in an age where social media is king, i have felt quite isolated from my peers when they speak on a new artist, or trend. just last week, someone asked for my socials and when i said i didn’t have any, they asked “what do you do all day?”

[@oskar2914]

"maybe their just autistic" as a genuine explanation is something i thought id never seen genuinely said by larger youtubers like sarah z. I'm glad to see that folks understand and confirm that people's body language can be completely misread. And that autism will fundamentally change how you need to interpret someone's communication goals.

[@heathermorton3598]

Even as someone with really bad anxiety (too that point that it’s been suggested that I’m autistic by a psychiatrist because of my refusal to make eye contact or deviate from my routine at work. It might be true but I don’t think so. I’m just very anxious) people think I’m suspicious all the time. When I get pulled over, I always am forced into a sobriety test because of my body language and behavior. So I feel bad when random “professionals” say that a random person is guilty based off of their body langue and behavior when being confronted. That shit is scary!

[@_gremlinboy]

Yeah and trauma can have a big impact as well- my physical responses are sometimes out of tune with what I'm saying, I can seem very anxious when I am just minorly bothered by something and I can seem super calm while I am very upset, due to the way I learned to process emotions. And especially with relationships where abuse may have taken place, I see this thing with armchair psychologists or body language analysts or just random people totally misunderstanding cues that should indicate abuse. Abusers can be charming and have engaging, unassuming body language that feels genuine, while the victim can come off as "crazy" or "hysterical" and is easily villainized. Two weird, disparate examples I can think of now are Shiloh (patient zero) and Gabbie Petito, both had their abusive partners charm cops (and then the internet) into dismissing what should have been huge red flags for DV. It's really so dangerous not taking this stuff into account

[@SATURN-ow]

I’m really glad you talked about Sabrina and couch guy. The first time I saw Sabrina’s videos and the comments I was horrified. The transphobia was blatant to me and I’m sure to the majority of my trans siblings and allies. It wasn’t a great moment to be trans on the internet (it usually isn’t but that time was rougher than usual). I remember opening TikTok and being bombarded with parody videos of the original couch guy stuff. I wanted drama that day so I investigated and god, I was kicked down low. I’m autistic, his reaction was my reaction to most things especially in front of a camera. The things people said about him completely bled through the screen and became about me. It was a horrible day for me and I imagine many other autistic and neurodivergent people felt this way too. You’re right we regret being snarky and sarcastic on the internet but we never regret being kind. This has been my point of view for a while after realising I had been a bad person on the internet. I don’t regret one bit, being kind is the single best decision I’ve ever taken.

[@billyjones-1996]

The fact that people were comparing Sabrina to buffalo bill without realising that entire character is an anti-trans stereotype that's been around for decades was really upsetting, people just really eat the slop that's fed them sometimes

[@waverlyaltis7171]

Lmao once my teacher said that people look away when lying because they are “looking for the answer.” As someone with Autism who never makes eye contact and constantly looks away, I found it very funny

[@thepinkestpigglet7529]

What I find funny is people with out eye contact issues specifically look to the left when lying. Why the left?

[@darrylparks4806]

Another factor that actively hinders efforts to put the brakes on this kind of mobbing is the incentive to position oneself as morally pure, manifested in this case as a rejection of any suggestion that the subject has had enough, or dismissal of any attempts by the subject to apologize or speak for themselves. Even as some people voice doubts about whether this has gone too far, there's always the incentive to show just how committed to the cause you are by contrast, and all you have to do is say "no mercy."

[@DarthRayj]

Yup. When really, I want all the mercy. I want to be merciful to others and have them be merciful to me. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, in fact I think that's a much better world than one with no mercy.

[@irresponsibledad]

I wonder if the mob becomes more extreme as individuals act in more and more extreme ways, so as to stand out as being exceptionally "pure"