THE IDOL: when misogyny is disguised as art

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time stamps:
00:00 - intro
03:52 - rolling stone expose article
14:00 - cannes film festival premiere
14:56 - use of n*dity
18:08 - episode one
37:52 - episode two
43:32 - episode three
48:56 - episode four
53:04 - episode five
01:01:20 - conclusion
sources:
‘The Idol’: How HBO’s Next ‘Euphoria’ Became Twisted ‘Torture P*rn’ -www.rollingstone.com/tv-movie...
Directing TV Means Less Creative Freedom, but These Filmmakers Have Never Been Happier (Column) - www.indiewire.com/features/ge...
Behind-the-Scenes Photos Allegedly from the ‘First Version’ of The Idol Depict a Completely Different Show - www.glamour.com/story/behind-...
The Weeknd pitched ‘The Idol’ concept by saying he could start a cult if he wanted to - www.nme.com/news/tv/the-weekn...
Fans Demand ‘The Idol’ (Amy Seimetz’s Version) - www.esquire.com/uk/culture/tv...
Exclusive: The Idol Takes Cannes - www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...
THE WRATH OF CANNES: CRITICS BATTER THE IDOL, STARRING LILY-ROSE DEPP AND ABEL 'THE WEEKND' TESFAYE - editorial.rottentomatoes.com/...
The Weeknd Admits ‘The Idol’ May ‘Piss Some People Off,’ Sam Levinson Says Toxic Set Report Made Him Realize It’ll Be ‘Biggest Show of the Summer’ - variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-...
‘The Idol’ debuts at Cannes with plenty of n*dity and controversy - www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...
The Idol: Why is the series now only five episodes? - www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/enter...
The Idol viewers left perplexed by hairbrush detail in final episode - www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...
The Idol: Lily-Rose Depp addresses finale’s baffling, controversial twist - www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...
‘The Idol’: Sam Levinson & Lily-Rose Depp On The Finale Twist That Paints Tedros As “The Victim” All Along - deadline.com/2023/07/the-idol...
The Ending of The Idol, Explained - www.harpersbazaar.com/culture...
The Idol finale review - one of the worst programmes ever made - www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...
The Idol: Intimacy coordinator lashes out at HBO for ‘making fun’ of her profession in Lily-Rose Depp’s show - www.pinkvilla.com/entertainme...
An Intimacy Coordinator Reacts to ‘The Idol’ Pilot: ‘I Felt Betrayed’ That HBO ‘Used Us as the Butt of the Joke’ - variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-...
No, Sam Levinson, Intimacy Coordinators Are Not a Joke - collider.com/the-idol-intimac...
‘The Idol’ Leans on Natural Light, Zooms, and ’70s Paranoia Thrillers to Achieve Its Unforgettable Look - www.indiewire.com/features/cr...
Sharon Stone on the Uncomfortable Incident That Proved Why Intimacy Coaches Are Needed - www.indiewire.com/features/ge...
***FOR BUSINESS ENQUIRIES ONLY***
[e-mail]

[@kornkorn4202]

So basically they babied and coddled a male superstar in their show about exploiting a female superstar??

[@kaemincha]

the irony could not be richer, and it's not even purposeful

[@ap5587]

Could not have said it better

[@wonderhollow3240]

Yes. Men pretend to be blind to social structures as much as they can because the social hierarchy and rules are set already for them by even more powerful men who also pretend to be blind to the oppression they partake in.

[@avaha.7474]

They are just so so so smart omg theyre genius they’re brilliant they know everything yay! What idiots

[@MADEbySOUL]

Really staying true to the misogynist branding.

[@sofiarestaino6537]

okay but abel saying "its too much female perspective" has me speechless. We have so many male centered ideas in movies and shows god forbbid there's one or two shows that don't appeal to the male gaze

[@kayakat1869]

Right??? I lost so much respect for him. I don't listen to his music anymore. I bet he's a creep behind the scenes.

[@Celeste-cc3hu]

The same with a lot of people's reactions to the Barbie movie

[@user9180]

Like the main character isn’t a female and that the ENTIRE PURPOSE of the show is about how Hollywood treats young promising women 💀

[@Hysterii]

When I want to find out whether it's misogyny, I replace "female" with "black". Imagine someone saying they fired the poc director of a movie about a person of color because "it's too much black perspective". That would be an outrage! (As it should, just as much as it should be with "female").

[@sofiarestaino6537]

​@@Celeste-cc3hueverything that isn't made for men and what they like will get hate. Barbie is a good movie and some men can't deal with the fact that a woman director can be such as good as a man. Women hating never seems to get old.

[@theressarose5897]

The fact that Sam Levinson had included a man being falsely accused of rape on two of his shows says a lot about how he feels about woman.

[@eilidhcathcart5024]

@@ragdaalhamwiAbsolutely, it would be accurate to reality

[@clovergum]

who?

[@kant.68]

Well is a real thing, you’re implying it doesn’t happen?

[@ilikesmosh101]

@@kant.68lol only 2% of rape cases are considered false reports, and if you saw what’s considered a false report the number is even smaller since many are told they can’t do anything bc they didn’t press charges immediately. What would be more accurate and realistic of him to portray is the 1 in 3 women that will be abused in their lifetime, and how 98% of them will be men and how it’s more likely it’ll be a man they’re close to. Lol.

[@QueenIrene4382]

@@eilidhcathcart5024well seeing how only about 2% of all rape reports are false, it pushes the narrative that (edit: a majority of) women are just manipulative liars who not only use their bodies to get what they want but will destroy a man with one of the worst accusations. On the contrary seeing how about 4/5 women report having some sort of unwanted sexual experience in their life, the egregious oversimplication of the impact of abuse shows that Levinson is not only ignorant but misogynistic with a victim complex.

[@cocogoat1111]

"Nudity is actually really important and deep". Cool, then why didn't Weeknd have to get naked at any point? Like... it's okay to show him in all these graphically disgusting sex scenes but only Lily must be naked? Seems like Sam and Abel are just hiding behind "nude and sex are useful tools for art" as an excuse for their own fetishes. You cannot put a scene in the first episode of them locking away the intimacy coordinator and then act like actresses actually want to be naked all the time of their own free will. The intimacy coordinator is to help actors feel safe and like they are not being taken advantage of. Newbie actors will do stuff they aren't comfortable with because they don't want to ruin their opportunity... that does not mean they are actually okay with it.

[@StercusAcciditMedia]

Also people seem to forget this but intimicy coordinators are there for the crews safety as well, they havent necessarily consented to seeing nudity, and I know shes hot so its supposed to be like "well who WOULDNT want to see her naked??" But yeah assuming someone is okay with seeing you just because youre okay with being seen is self centred as hell.

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

also if we think of it realistically, who in the actual f wants to be nude all the time near creepy men, sure few might dig that but thats literally so unrealistic.. totally what i expect from this show..

[@drawingsticks5333]

Fun fact, in the Fifty Shade of Grey trilogy, the director of the FIRST movie was a woman but the other two were men and you can tell from the sex scenes because Christian suddenlty isn't sexualised and Anna is naked all the time for no reason. These are movies for women. Women don't even get to see naked guys in movies made explicitely for that.

[@naggymama2021]

This show is more violently physically mentally psychologically misogynistic than Entourage + Kanye filth, yet here we are, focusing on the trees and not the burning forest. Even the very smart Jordan is still trying hard to affect a smiling face with I SWEAR I AM NOT A PRUDE BUT OMG defensive lines. Why are we SO DEFENSIVE? When are we going to CALL IT WHAT IT IS: an incel jkkkoff ring clusterfkkk. The young women with wealth and agency chose to participate in this overt anti-feminist piece of crap, who could've pulled out any time, gave their own power away for eyeballs. Everyone else is just lending their image to a monument of Misogyny. That's all there is, nothing deep. And yet we are pretending the art shots are worth saving! That is the genius of the manipulator. Our perfectionism, the need to be correct, the fear of appearing angry, is our downfall.

[@queenofhearts7503]

The amount of nudity in this show was just repulsive

[@witchymary5246]

One thing that really bothers me (not just in this show but in modern media overall) is the pressure for young women and girls to be "sexually liberated". And the liberation always looks like "I'm having a lot of rough, kinky sex with a lot of different people" and never "I don't really want sex" or "I only want vanilla sex with my partner". I think it puts a lot of pressure on young women to do things they don't really want because they think it's anti feminist or they're repressed or something

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

Also kinky s_x happens with a lot of roleplay and a lot of things discussed before that. People don't just jump in to kinky s_x like that but in all p0rnos it's like that

[@julianajohnson4767]

One of my favorite quotes from Emma Goldmans essay marriage and love. “Free love? As if love is anything but free! Men have bought brains, but all the millions couldn’t buy love” it’s an amazing essay about how the institution of marriage and unequal partnerships, robs the free autonomy and self determination of frankly femme presenting folks as a whole.

[@sillyobserversilly]

⁠@@julianajohnson4767femme presenting folks? really? 💀 the reason women are opressed is because they are female! not because they identify as such. i understand what you are saying but this kind of language only dilutes this topic. you cant identify yourself out of opression

[@SomeRPGFan]

My mom told me stories about men trying to pressure her into sex by telling her she needed to be "sexually liberated" from the late 60s to early 70s (so Hippie era). Nothing new under the sun.

[@drawingsticks5333]

Don't worry, men have that covered too. Once you are truly sexually liberated and know exactly what you want and with whom, they call you a s*ut.

[@kaemincha]

Even when a show is meant to be about women, men just HAVE to make it about themselves.

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

@@SonderDAzeX nope its not

[@lexiright5609]

@@SonderDAzeX Dude just say you're a misogynist and go

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

@@SonderDAzeX bruh wdym by devil? What kind of corny sh1t are you even writing..

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

@@SonderDAzeX and btw it's not obvious in the show at all, the show does an absolutely bad job at showing anything properly or seriously

[@lexiright5609]

@@SonderDAzeX Because you’ve chosen to ignore the facts of the situation which is men overtaking a woman’s story to center themselves, and instead claim it’s “unisex” despite numerous people, especially women saying “no it isn’t”. Your refusal to see how this show presents the male gaze of a woman makes you a misogynist, and your wilful ignorance.

[@kayakat1869]

Can Sam Levinson just go into writing for pornos? That's obviously the only thing he can write.

[@Catbeantoes]

Literallyyyy. I’ve been thinking the same thing

[@maki55556]

LITERALLY! he needs to follow his dream of directing high-end budget pornos staring look alikes of his mom and leave us out of it

[@rainingopals1439]

No he'd suck at that too

[@lucyslucifer1926]

@@rainingopals1439fair enough even his face cant hide his bullshit writing skills 13 year old wattpad writers are even better than him

[@earthtoespe]

literally.

[@HealingMedicyn]

The most misogynistic part of this whole thing to me is the fact every1 catered to The Weeknd. Around his schedule, around his lack of experience (needing multiple cameras to film), etc while poor Lily Rose Depp had to learn hard core choreo, multiple different scripts & work her ass of yet she STILL just became a kind of prop for nudity & Sam & Abel’s wishes. She seems to have v little say in all this too. It’s really crazy to even consider her treatment in comparison to The Weeknd in an age where Hollywood constantly reminds us how pro woman they are (Barbie movie for ex).

[@gigiarmany4332]

Yep..he was God awful despite all the pandering😵‍💫😵

[@QueenIrene4382]

@@SonderDAzeXI think Lily Rose Depp has learned not to burn bridges...

[@M123Xoxo]

@@shilalove3631 So did Megan Fox when she was young. Then she grew up and realized how much she was exploited and realized what creeps she'd worked with.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

@@M123Xoxotrue

[@Nopenopenope6969]

​@@shilalove3631 You're the hateful one, defending sexist idiots. The Weeknd ain't going to read this comment section and pick you, honey.

[@Fran_Fuentes]

The sad thing is that the premise was so interesting. A child actor turned pop star in a toxic place who didn't let her grow up as a normal person sounds good as an analysis of the world she's in. You can make her broken for all the shit she's been through and also cunning enough to keep surviving in such a cut throat business but not in the way Sam and Abel did.

[@_linlin_]

Also the aesthetic and storyline of the show was actually absolutely amazing it had that Barbie - esque pop star that was actually probably a façade for the main character and we would have had a coming-of-age experience for her.

[@Starlet3000000]

And what’s annoying is that there are glimpses of that in the show. There’s an episode where Jocelyn is struggling with filming a music video. And that’s the best episode (and the episode where ha topped watching)

[@digdogbulldogdog]

Oshi no Ko has kind of a similar premise if you’re interested Character study of kinda broken young people growing up in the media industry It’s an anime/manga though

[@robinwangai3303]

​@@digdogbulldogdog Don't forget about Perfect Blue!

[@EmyN]

In the age of Barbie, we wanted Amy's version

[@nayaabshah1155]

👏👏

[@allbutperfect]

That's exactly what I thought!

[@vinna6714]

Petition for "The idol: Amy's cut" to be released geez

[@maggiemurphy4092]

I was thinking about this the whole time, i hope that happens!

[@allyli1718]

@@SonderDAzeXthe same peeps who paid for the Snyder Cut of Justice League lmao

[@Saphia_]

I've been thinking that ever since the first episode summary by D'Angelo Wallace.

[@trinaq]

I'd much rather have seen Amy Seimetz's version, which depicted Jocelyn attempting to regain her agency from the sleazy industry who callously stole it from her.

[@sofiarestaino6537]

Am I the only one who noticied that in those set pictures Lily Rose Depp look happier???

[@Liolia22]

I think that’s what Levinson believes he achieved with his version, given how pissed off her whole team was at the end? 🙄 But he also made it seem like she was the manipulator all along. Interjected into a long terrible p0rn flick shot with expensive recording equipment, in a fancy house. Fun fact, not sure if it will be mentioned here, but Jocelyn’s house in the show is actually Abel Tesfaye’s house in real life. Another way he was overly involved and another reason why he feels he owns it. He’s why he’s pissy people hate it, esp his own “performance”. 🤢 Hearing Tesfaye’s music throughout the show was so awkward, cuz he’s supposed to be playing such a skeez, but then it’s like…does The Weeknd exist as himself in that universe, too? It’s all so confusing.

[@pixi3d3ath47]

@@Liolia22it’s incredibly sad bc any woman involved in a show the way he was would be seen as “bitchy” for changing something to have a more feminist message. Jenna Ortega used her creative control on Wednesday to cut out the sexist “not like other girls” scenes and and the writers were blaming her and not Tim Burton for not including her into the writing process properly.

[@espeon871]

@@sofiarestaino6537ikr and also it looked so fun

[@Ashiebun]

it would've been a more meaningful show than whatever this was

[@KRB9sunshine]

This show really felt like SA from the perspective of the abuser. Especially with how they made Lily Rose Depp so unlikeable and almost like a terrible person by the end, suggesting she was in control all the time and I’m sure that’s how abusers see themselves, as the victim of a seducer.

[@person7407]

Good analysis!

[@luxlisbon7979]

such a good point, it’s sick

[@osmanthus_branch]

Literally Humbert in Lolita... the similarity is uncanny.

[@robinwangai3303]

​@@osmanthus_branchYou read the book too? Never again...

[@squirrelgadget3498]

​@@osmanthus_branchbruh I was about to say that too. It was on purpose in Lolita though, with Humbert Humbert being an unreliable narrator. Wouldve been cool if tjis show did the same thing.

[@fairybutterfly23]

"misogyny disguised as art" literally should be the summary of The Idol

[@missstranger7697]

Spot on😆🎯

[@orangepencil7]

Sam Levinson seems like the kind of guy who likes 'Lolita' for ALL the wrong reasons.

[@kaydenvega4635]

​@@GB-ws1scexposing humbert for the predator he is, and showing how those disturbed sickos think. So people can be more aware of chmos.

[@melowlw8638]

​@@GB-ws1sc idk if op is talking abt the book but if it is then i would guess liking it for a twisted (n immersive??) criticism of predation on a child im also saying this as someone who hasnt read it but knows what goes on in the book so i think this is probably what u could take away and appreciate from it

[@JoeyisDREADful]

​@@melowlw8638 OP is referring to the metric fuckton of creepy men who don't understand the entire point of the plot is that the literal p3dophile who's ON TRIAL for a MURDER is an obviously unreliable narrator Like, alot of really gross misogynists genuinely don't understand Lolita is 100% a victim and the p3do is either delusional, or lying, about her level of involvement and consent.

[@ettaetta439]

​@@JoeyisDREADfulLolita is her nickname given by the p3do, her name is Dolores and she hated that nickname. Also, it's so weird how they read that scene where the creep was ogling her "womanly curves" despite Dolores in that scene being a tween. There were no "womanly curves" there, she was just a child. But instead of being disgusted, those men were ogling along with the creep.

[@chaotenkind]

they way the weeknd and Sam levinson thought they did something groundbreaking, when in reality people are already starting to forget this shitshow even existed

[@lucyslucifer1926]

They literally though “wow this IS a masterpiece!” like wattpad writers would probably make idol more entertaining than they will ever will with their peanut size brains

[@salamander8301]

The fact that abel claimed to forget how to sing because he was so method. 😂

[@pradapilled]

its embarrassing

[@tripalongbrasil]

yeah lol most ppl hate-watched it once, trashed it on social media and then went on with their lives

[@Thepriestessdeath]

@@salamander8301i feel like he probably forgot to sing tbh cuz hes being so fake that hes losing his voice…and also maybe cuz he toke away women’s voices…just feels more karma and throat chakra to me

[@medtle1]

"The Idol" is what happens when men try to turn feminine media into media that panders to the male gaze. What happened to Amy Seimetz is similar to what happened to the original director of Pixar's "Brave".

[@AzulaBlaza]

Wait I didn’t know that happened with Brave. Could you elaborate pls

[@medtle1]

@@AzulaBlaza the original director of Brave got kicked out of her own project - even though it was her idea and story - because they said the story focused "too much" on the mother-daughter relationship and "not enough action" to "entertain" the guys. (Note that the original director is not only a woman, but a mother with a daughter.) After that, the movie went through several rewrites & drafts and several male directors before the final movie was done, resulting in a movie with mixed reviews (which is sad since it was pixar's first movie with a female protagonist). [Pixar came a long way from kicking a female director off Brave for making the movie too "female-focused" to letting the director of Turning Red have complete control of her own movie and story and defending the movie when it received a lot of sexist and racist backlash.]

[@jellybeans3994]

I thought of that too! It's so sad that as soon as these directors make choices about displaying the female experience in a different way, it gets shut down

[@pooodonklooopdoop5672]

@@medtle1that’s so interesting because i always though the first part of the film was great but then it got derailed and lost the original plot.

[@mimilillamy3460]

yes, I'm so mad about Brave!

[@britnicox3929]

I am begging someone in the industry to make a movie or show about an egotistical self-centered show writer who ramps things up higher and higher and higher and is basically given whatever he wants just because the company loves him so much. I feel like it could be quite a good surreal black mirror-esque show/movie Edit: also, killing the American accent!

[@smanthajones5881]

You’re Too real for this one

[@gigiarmany4332]

but they did

[@snoopysnacks]

Written and directed by Amy Seimetz

[@snoopysnacks]

@@SonderDAzeX I didn't say she was.

[@lavernebennet7395]

the closest thing I could think of is Garth Marenghi's Darkplace but that's not really the same thing (it's basically pretending to be a low-budget show from the 80s made by an egotistical but questionably skilled horror author, with occasional cutting to talking heads of the cast, including him) (if you've ever seen that thing that says "i know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards", that's from Darkplace) but yeah I get that the idea is more that we see the show being made ....yknow there is that filmmaking reality show that Shane Dawson was on. but that's real.

[@Cocaine_moss]

I remember going on Twitter and seeing a bunch of people talk about how Amy’a version of the idol was supposed to reminisce Britney Spears , how she started out as a cute and young child star that appealed to children but eventually grew up and came to terms with womanhood, her sexuality etc and THE URGE I HAD TO SEE THAT VERSION was crazy

[@ghadakameche2248]

Omg saaaame

[@zelal6810]

Making men the victim, and also making it so that any experience revolves around men. If Jocelyn was always the manipulators, she could have had an interesting anti-hero arc, but no because even that couldn't be about her. Her manipulation is only handled from the perspective of Tedros and how she affected his life, not even her own life.

[@VeSpEr7iNe]

I find creepy that the daugther of Jhonny deep played into that narrative...

[@pradapilled]

@@VeSpEr7iNeEXACTLY WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY. its johnny depps daughter what are yall even expecting💀 theyre making fun of all of you in front of your eyea

[@Thepriestessdeath]

@@pradapilledthis. Literally an attack on metoo and survivors again…

[@ab__5464]

fr

[@iversiafanatic]

I was thinking about this as a male victim of child abuse. From my perspective, I hate my abuser, and she’s a woman. This show takes a perspective even I could never empathize with. The portrayal of this woman as just an “evil manipulator” because she simply inconvenienced men is truly disrespectful to both women and victims of violence at the hands of women. It shows how the weekend feels victimized by the strong women around him for no reason- women being awful to men to deal with awful situations is NOT the same as a specific woman who chooses a victim and abuses them, and I think it’s stupid to say so.

[@Remerdre]

Who knew Velma wouldn't be HBO's worst series of the year?

[@multinsomnia5455]

Fr😭

[@ab__5464]

Velma? HBO just do random shit for fun atp 😂

[@trucevideos]

LOLLLLL i completely forgot about velma 😭

[@justine4581]

​@@SonderDAzeXbecause people wouldnt stop talking about it and hate watching it. Thats always how it works but ppl never learn :/

[@pixiestxNyomouf]

See!? It was because of THIS they had the audacity to make season 2

[@sandrae2398]

It's honestly super concerning what powerful, rich men like Sam Levinson and The Weeknd are clearly into and how they view women. The cut scene where The Weeknd smashes Lily's face and she smiles and asks to be beaten more? What the actual fuck? Their search histories and their behaviour must be absolutely sick behind the scenes. Painting the abused as 'the real abuser' is just so disgusting.

[@missstranger7697]

These men sound masters of guilt-trip manipulation... Unfortunately mothers also do that to their girls.

[@linootte]

Hot take: Euphoria has always been a groomer show, the fate of The idol is sad but unsurprising.

[@straawberryfieldsforever]

But in euphoria all the characters date within their age. Only Cal didn't and everyone is majorly grossed out by it (and traumatized Nate)

[@DM-nw5lu]

I personally always found Euphoria creepy and problematic. I gave it ago but stopped a few episodes in.

[@jordanne.anemone]

@@straawberryfieldsforeverexcept the episode where they say a 14 year old maddy was "in control" when she lost her virginity to a much older man. i have no idea why that show is so popular it's honestly disgusting

[@hifellowhumans8393]

Ugh tell me about it *rolls eyes*

[@RandomSwiftie13]

Reminder: Petra Collins was the original euphoria season 1 aesthetic creater photographer. Sam Levinson stole her entire consept and then fired her saying she was "too young"... She created the euphoria aesthetics that everyone loved so much.

[@annabela.1673]

To be honest, I already had many problems with sexualization and questionable empowerment of female characters in Euphoria, specially of teenagers, so I wasn't really that chocked when I watched The Idol and how he portrayed an adult woman. I think people now were able to see better how creepy his works because The Idol has no glitter or pretty aesthetic to make the audience like at least something.

[@gigiarmany4332]

Yes

[@M123Xoxo]

It's crazy to me that people didn't already see it with Euphoria. It's basically child p*rn. I will not watch something like that. In 20 years we're going to look back and wonder how that ever made it to TV.

[@etherealwve]

Yeah, the reason why I’m not surprised that The Idol went in the direction it did is because of Euphoria. Kat in particular is portrayed as empowered and in control after she starts getting involved in sex work, despite the fact that she’s literally a teenager. And that’s far from being the only weird thing about the show. I’m convinced that Sam Levinson thinks that something being aesthetically pleasing makes it automatically meaningful, deep or intellectual lol

[@okdude8215]

Idk who watches Euphoria after reading the plot summary, teenagers doing drugs and having sex... What?

[@lorya1solin]

I think Euphoria is compared to Skins a lot which also covered sex, drugs and problems, but Skins dealt differently with it

[@blackanne]

The part about using zoom lenses and shots inspired by old thrillers reminded me of an essay by Melissa Febos about women shown in film as prey and about desensitizating the audience to violent imagery. This series is very predatory in this sense.

[@Bleach-sh3ud]

Whats the essay called?

[@blackanne]

@@Bleach-sh3ud I don't remember which one it was in particular but it was in a collection called Girlhood. The whole book is worth reading.

[@debbzt07]

I think the video you say is from a channel called film fatales @@blackanne

[@shifa444]

I think it was disgusting the way they portrayed the weekns character who is an abuser as a victim of a manipulative women who was the mastermind and orchestrated everything to experience the abuse he subjected her to, perpetuating the notion that women like 'r4pey' guys. this notion is more obvious when the show literally had a line where a girl said “he gives r4pey vibes” and lily roses character saying “I kinda like it.” 🤮 the entire show is just about sam levinsons and the weeknds r3pe fantasies and torture corn

[@co_7523]

I didn't watch it but I heard about that and I was disgusted. It's a very dangerous narrative.

[@saori5808]

It’s insane how they tried to make it seem like Abel’s character was a victim when he still abused her out of his own will? Even if she meant for that to happen Abel’s character didn’t know so he still was abusing her ???😭 and it’s stated that he literally hit and abused his past partners? So how tf is he a victim at all

[@toofar2real]

​@@saori5808he wasn't a victim and the show didn't depict him as a victim at all. What happened between him and Lilly Rose character was personal between two very Hollywood, very ambitious people who ended up in each other's lives because of their dark past and actually ended up catching feelings for each other. Testoroes was a pimp, a con man, and some how a cult leader lol. So him getting played by Lilly Rose character in the end was well earned, he wasn't a victim

[@lavernebennet7395]

the "abusive/manipulative man was ACTUALLY the one REALLY being abused/manipulated by the vulnerable young woman he was in a fucked up relationship with" trope makes me SO mad. The New Teen Titans comics do this with Slade and Terra and Ace Attorney kinda does it with Terry Fawles and Dahlia Hawthorne (at the very least in this they're both adults unlike the two examples I gave. also just to be clear, pretty much every subsequent retelling of the judas contract storyline omits or retcons Slade and Terra's relationship being...physical in any way, even the ones that acknowledge that he was horrible to her, but it's implied in the original comic and the artist for said comic made it clear in an interview that that was the intent--he goes on to say that the reaction he intended to provoke from the reader was, and i quote, "good god! this little girl is a slut!") ....sorry i just went on a tangent about comic books LOL

[@LisaKini]

I feel every single commentary video about the idol could be summed up with what you said at 59:45 "Men will bend over backwards to make the man the real victim."

[@elinasaulite4328]

I really feel like Abel should've been like a peek-a-boo type of actor where he shouldn't have been Tedros but he should've appeared as a side character... his fans would be happy, he could still be a co-creator and had like a Stan Lee type of cameo where everybody knows he's one of the creators but he's not the main focus 😂 but nah... his ego's too large for that role

[@alabamaisyourdaddy6137]

I see what you are saying but actually it was Sam Levinson who convinced Abel to take a larger role in the series when originally he was just going to do the soundtrack and be creatively involved. Most of the bad things about this show stem directly from Sam

[@xxromanovaxx6682]

@SonderDAeX because it's just a role, dude. The entire plot was about him being a victim of a bad, bad wahmen

[@xxromanovaxx6682]

@@SonderDAzeX "Everyone knows Tedros" "Tedros saved me" just a few quotes from the show. Kinda disaproves your argument.

[@Sabrina-sc1db]

Or, he could just stick to singing because he cannot act for shit

[@elinasaulite4328]

I felt so bad for the actress because she's either, one, contractually obligated to defend these creepy men, or, two, is very stupid

[@M1995C]

Yea I wonder if in five years or twenty years LRD will speak up á la Sharon Stone

[@elinasaulite4328]

@SonderDAzeX who is Abel and Sam to you? your gods or sth? why be all up in the comments (on a video that's criticizing them) to bend over backwards for them?

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

@@elinasaulite4328 thats what i am saying, maybe hes their secret agent trying to gain them sympathy but its failing bad, he needs to be fired lol

[@pamelabetances143]

@@elinasaulite4328seriously!! I see them in so many comments wasting their damn time defending these OBVIOUS creeps which speaks volumes about the type of person they are. CRINGEEEEE 😖

[@pamelabetances143]

@@SonderDAzeX it’s not even that comment in particular. It was a TON of your other comments on other threads that I can’t name bc it was just too many. Just merely observing.

[@littlemissmello]

Just for the record, intimacy coordinators are also there to protect cast and crew that need to be on set but may not be nude. You maybe want to be nude but not everyone arounds you consents to seeing you nude.

[@MosesSuppose]

It says a lot that The Weeknd’s idea of sexy lyrics is a woman singing to him “Push me down hold me down/ Spit in my mouth while you turn me out.” There’s more, but honestly, ew.

[@kayakat1869]

That could be really hot if he actually respected women irl, but its obvious that he doesn't.

[@lucyslucifer1926]

Listened to his song for the first time and every now and then my face wrinkles about how true those lyrics must’ve been😭

[@katelynpringle5506]

I’ve listened to his early work, doesn’t surprise me at all he’s like this. I kinda think people have forgotten just how filthy some of his songs are.

[@starchannel123]

Women have been pleasing men for too long that now they actually believe women don’t have personal desires.

[@Thepriestessdeath]

@@starchannel123women need to examine their “personal desires” cuz men have been parasocially grooming us for so long…

[@helloworld1493]

I need them to release Amy’s version like they did the Snyder cut. Even if it’s unfinished or just the script, we need The Idol (Amy’s Version) 🙏🙏

[@xxromanovaxx6682]

They had Amy's entire season recorded and finished, AFAIK

[@co_7523]

I hope it's leaked. 🤞🏾

[@RandomSwiftie13]

HBO would never. They know they will look bad for firing Amy even more than they already do. HBO is going to do everything in it's power to burry her version from ever seeing the light of day.

[@alexa-no7zr]

i loved the vision before sam ruined it. Sam creeps me tf out honestly. Euphoria is his fetish piece, and idol is as well. Euphoria and Idol exposes the dark side of fame, and youth; however it felt like a moment to praise, and sexualize abuse.

[@alexa-no7zr]

@@SonderDAzeX Amy’s: the director previously hired

[@alexa-no7zr]

@@SonderDAzeX a focus on a her childhood, and a more female perspective utilized to explain her story.. From the pictures it seemed more genuine and focused on Jocelyn's journey, a transition from child star, to an adult, and the dark side of it. It seemed less sex and cult focused

[@alexa-no7zr]

@@SonderDAzeX sir it's a google search away lol. it has a heavier backstory than sam's idol

[@M123Xoxo]

@@alexa-no7zr The guy you're responding to is a troll who has been commenting on every post. He's a misogynist pig. Don't feed the troll.

[@toofar2real]

​​@@SonderDAzeXthey don't fhucking know 😂. Most of the people who are shit talking this show in the comments didn't watch it. Their opinions are based off of emotions, instead of being based off of analyzing information. They're morons

[@kamsismith]

If you want a story about a female musician struggling with mental health and it's portrayed sympathetically and sensitively, I recommend The Unraveling of Cassidy Holmes. The book is about Cassidy Holmes, a member of the 2000s girl group Gloss that's based on the Spice Girls. The members who haven't spoken to her since they disbanded process the loss and wonder what they could have done to help her. It's a much more interesting story than The Idol.

[@Ivory81]

I’m reading this at the moment and I agree. Despite only being half-way through, it’s already a much more respectful and insightful view on the industry. It’s one of my top recommendations at the moment

[@carmendomima1916]

❤❤ thankyou for the recommendation

[@garfled]

Did you recommend this book on another idol video too? Bc i actually started reading it bc of a comment lmao

[@kamsismith]

Yes, though I'm not sure which one. I only found out about the book after going to Barnes and Noble with books similar to Daisy Jones and the Six.

[@1607Adi_Manz]

or maybe watch Oshi no Ko instead

[@jaminavestajugo3456]

I quite agree with your view on the nudity. Jocelyn is shown nude or in skimpy, uncomfortable clothes even when she isn't explicitly trying to perform. Her poses when sitting or standing still are more for spectacle. It's actually a missed opportunity to explore how she can't "turn off" her performance mode anymore--something a lot of women can relate to, even if they're not celebrities.

[@noahkirschtein8169]

it’s still WILD to me that they didn’t want a show about a female artist as the main character to have a female perspective ??? they really took something with so much potential and turned it into some self-indulgent fantasy.. and then they gave jocelyn some half-assed “girlboss” moment at the end that makes NO SENSE

[@ohitsclemenTIME]

I watched the whole show and Abel is genuinely one of the worst actors of all time. Had he not been in it and the show focused more on the pressure popstars feel (like the part of the episode where she cries out for her mom), this could have been a great show. But the plot is a mess, they tried to do that weird twist, and Sam is a terrible producer who's only idea is "but what if woman bad". Destiny was my favourite part.

[@tripalongbrasil]

i mean yeah, he's not an actor in any way lol he didn't study or practice for it, the fame just got to his head

[@ohitsclemenTIME]

@SonderDAzeX they play it off the whole show up until the last episode that she is a victim of abuse and then flip it that she was lying... that constitutes a twist. By the last episode, everyone is acting out of character from the first 4 episodes.

[@ohitsclemenTIME]

@@SonderDAzeX OK 👍

[@Zzz-ff1np]

@@SonderDAzeX "need and desperation for control" lol and yet at every chance before the last episode she handed that control to everyone else (managers and Tedros). That's why it was hilarious when she sang that lame song about not wanting to think or make decisions. She was mostly brain dead letting a random dude who wasn't experienced in her industry make all her career decisions then voila! at the end, boss b moment. 🥱 lame

[@girlsforchicha]

I read a post along the lines of "you can always tell whether an artist is male or female based on the way they portray women" and i think that is very relevant when talking about The Idol

[@sushmlta]

that twist or whatever is so cheap in an "it was all just a dream" way but im sure they thought it was genius

[@wolf-gh2dz]

ive said this before, but it’s so upsetting to me how a show that started production as a story about the exploitation of women in the music industry ended up as a story about women lying about being abused / assaulted. also, funny moment, i started watching this in the lobby of a dentist office and not a minute into it a weeknd song started playing.

[@maisiekellyreid4168]

the fact that they filmed in the weekend's house reminds me of when in bojack horseman they film the philbert tv show on a set identical to bojack's house and bojacks like looses touch with reality and what his real life is, lol not saying that happened but interesting

[@maggiemurphy4092]

I was thinking the same thing dude, it really says a lot about society lol

[@user-ju2ut2dj1l]

Kinda unrelated but I was just thinking about how Sarah Lynn's and Gina's storylines in BH provide much better insight into how women are exploited by the entertainment industry.

[@slavicgoth]

Sam Levinson directed 7 better than average episodes and he's already tripping like he's Martin Scorsese

[@mariajosesotodiaz8650]

I watched many videos about the idol and I'm still flabbergasted about how they thought they were doing something with this absolute cringe porn. the audacity only men can have, it's amazing

[@karynapanda1425]

I am so glad you were so vocal about the clear violation of consent in the closet sex scene! ❤You are damn right about such portrayals being dangerous as there is a plethora of research stating that normalising such issues in media directly correlates with then many people unfortunately displaying rape myths acceptance; which then leads to all sorts of further issues such as millions of unfair sexual violence trials where the survivor has to defend themselves most of the time rather than the perpetrator and in general survivors being afraid to report cases, since “it’s not a big deal, hehe” and all that

[@mariamendoza259]

I was looking for this comment!!! This has happened to me multiple times by different guys because they don’t like they can’t cum inside 🤮 it’s infuriating

[@mizunoryujin6684]

I have watched almost every single video about this show and somehow this video still managed to mention crazy things I hadn't heard of at all.

[@SomeRPGFan]

I feel so bad for the actors who worked hard on the first version only for their scenes to be completely removed. What a terrible and unprofessional way to treat people.

[@goober479]

It’s insanely common sadly

[@declanb3469]

Using the most vile photos of Sam Levinson is so appreciated

[@kiyamarie9317]

I dont think the false r*pe allegation within this plot has enough discourse. That scene being paired with the fact that the women are the perpetrators is just so disgusting. He obviously sees these things as ways women receive leverage in media instead of women having the courage to out their r*pist and de-platform those people. Not to mention this is not the first time hes included this in a plot (maddie w the college guy in euphoria). He is sending a very loud message of how he feels about such topics which leads me to believe one day well hear about one of his own...

[@thebluetrain6797]

I think he's sending a message that he's concerned about false allegations, which a lot of men are these days. Perfectly reasonable.

[@pixi3d3ath47]

the thing is sam is constantly trying to make tv shows staring women that have these “relatable” metaphors on the world and how women are treated through surrealism. i think rue’s storyline is the only one that’s actually consistent, and every other character is either butchered, glamorized for their abusive behavior by turning them into an overpowered villain with zero stakes, or underwritten. if many women are pointing out how it’s unrealistic, hollow, and empty that their entire lives revolve around shitty men and they consistently make these choices that turn them into manic pixies, that’s because sam is uninspired by the idea of women just having a crappy life that isn’t completely brutal. you can have faye-who’s just naked. a drug deal, an abusive relationship between a pop star and pathetic squatter, a puritanical town reenacting the purge, a woman being sexualized and spread out as revenge porn. it’s always some beautiful sad girl who only takes her power back by being as violent and terrible as her abuser to others who don’t deserve it. the “jocelyn took back her power by possibly lying about abuse so she could recieve it” is really disgusting, because the only way you beat an abuser is to successfully leave them. he promotes the idea that the perfect victim is this equally manipulative woman instead of someone who is healing. maddy tried to heal in s2 but that wasn’t beautifully sad enough, so there was a gun scene from nate out of nowhere. there’s also the fact he’s trying to have nudity “desexualized” but it usually just leads to women randomly taking their clothing off and acting like “born yesterday” beings who aren’t aware of others seeing them-that is not telling a story on reality like he wants. most women are incredibly aware of our bodies bc we are constantly sexualized anyway. and outside of that, sex scenes do occur but it would make sense to make those the least explicit rather than casual nudity if that was his message.

[@SL-wl7ol]

Well said. Tbh probably the only reason Rue's story is so consistent is because it's clear when Sam is writing what he knows.

[@myrtaleellery]

I think that Rue's character has a coherent plotline because it's not about her being a woman, it's about her being a drug addict, which is something Levinson can relate to. None of the other female characters have issues with hard drugs, and if they use them, they use them recreationally.

[@liv97497]

I'm still not over these plot points making no sense at all. If Jocelyn was the manipulator all along, why does she act like that when she finds out the weekend had her friend take her to the club? That felt like it was only for the audience. Why are the label execs acting like those performances are the second coming of christ? There are literally so many super talented people out there. Knowing how to sing is simply NOT enough to get signed or even to make it in the music industry. Why would a random nightclub owner be knowledgeable enough to have input on her music and seemingly make it better? And why would an exposé of past crimes ruin the life of a nobody who's not a celebrity and who no one cares about, especially when in real life, up until a couple years ago child molestr woody allen was out there making films with huge stars and getting praised for his genius? Why would a label person choose to give a mid song to an unknown dancer who can sing instead of a wold famous popstar, even if said popstar wasn't doing great atm? Why would Jocelyn the mastermind introduce the weekend as her boyfriend *after* he was exposed? Like, remember how swifties went wild after that whole matty healy thing (and he's not even a convicted felon)? She's either very stupid or just willing to throw her career down the drain. And anyone who's ever consumed any media on cults knows that most cult leaders don't use physical torture because they don't need to. It's mostly manipulation. The use of violence actually often leads to some members kind of waking up and wanting to leave. It's just so stupid.

[@apollinariaa9228]

Asking all the right questions!

[@Ruinwyn]

I can sort of see the "origin" of some of the plot points. Exposé of Tedros is supposed to matter, because the general public should have already known about Tedros. Tedros used to pimp women for sex, now he pimps artists for sexual music. The pop star has stopped writing and can't perform, take the next person with some stage presence and see if they can do something with the purchased song. Dancer to star does happen. There are plenty of examples of questionable boyfriend managers and articles about them. But then you forget to establish public knowledge about the relationship. You forget to establish that there is actual problems transferring stardom from teenage to adult audiences with the current star. They needed to add violent abuse because BDSM is sexy. This series went of the rails in the very first establishing shot. Take most of the plot but start with Jocelyn's image being closer to the faux virginal early Britney. The mother who demanded that image is dead and label is ready to push her to adult market with her own "Slave for You". She's uncomfortable with that image, but (ex)boyfriend releases images of their sex (a'la Paris Hilton) and she is stuck with it. She has trouble with the more sexual choreo and generally selling the song, but the scandal already killed her old image. During the filming of the music video, the footage of her long time friend, backup dancer/singer is constantly better and label starts to show interest in her. *Now* we start to move Tedros from periferial sexy club owner to "boyfriend" who takes over her life. Have him direct Jocelyn in photo shoot and juxtapose it with Jocelyn's managers going through evidence of his pimping by checking a video of him directing a cam girl (a'la Andrew Tate). None of the story makes sense if Jocelyn is actually in control from the start, *because everything is built on her not being in control of anything *.

[@lovelymill]

there was the history with britney spears and her manager, someone commented that they included it in the show

[@bekah.hampton]

The way the barbie movie is the biggest movie of the year and no one can believe it has anything to do with it being about WOMEN

[@brooklynn7694]

Babes I couldn’t even get past the first episode, but I love you for doing this

[@hjrdaku8793]

the implied ending that she's actually "the real manipulator" pisses me off so much. abused women have to deal with this narrative all the time, especially in the public eye. just think abt how amber heard got absolutely demolished and how most people were convinced she was an evil manipulator faking her abuse. you can make a manipulative female character, or women who take advantage of their percieved vulnerability (amy dunne ily) i would love to see more of those, but this one was really badly done

[@erinrhianne]

Yes to absolutely everything you said.

[@nic0887]

I want Amy’s version NOW

[@avii377]

The "Mental illness is sexy" line in the show said enough.

[@magicmicah05]

#JusticeforAmySeimetz

[@bobb.boberson4437]

The only way I can imagine a 'Jocelyn as a manipulator' storyline going well is it being a slow buildup with a breaking point in the second to last episode, not the last one. Imagine this: Left destitute after her Mother's death, she throws herself into her Hollywood/singing career to earn money. She is initially hoping to find the love she never had in her family in her on-set, but as Jordan says, all the people in her on-set life are also all preying on her. All they care about is putting money in their pockets, regardless of Jocelyn's wellbeing. We see the dog-eat-dog world of Hollywood displayed in various scenarios; After the failed music video, she overhears one of her close friends being offered a record deal, implying the record company is considering replacing her. If they had to do the gross Revenge P plot, it could be from an ex who is a desperate to land a role in a movie and is willing to do anything to be put in the limelight, even at her expense. Her fans are revealed to love her polished celebrity image, not the real her. I would keep Destiny as a real and genuine friend (and her own arc, she is rad and deserves some development outside just being Jocelyn's best friend!) But we can see Jocelyn becoming paranoid even of her, because everyone else seems to be manipulating her in order to get ahead and survive in an expensive city like LA. If the weekend is included in this show, I agree with Jordan; he should be introduced as very sweet and likable. He has a sad backstory of growing up in poverty, similar to that of Jocelyn's mother. Then, as the episodes go on, he slowly becomes creepy and abusive and pushes her to become more manipulative, cruel, and underhanded herself. She joins the dogs in the dog-eat-dog world, and begins to manipulate her cast and crew and friends to get ahead. He begins a cycle of abuse, reconciliation, isolation, and encouraging her to manipulate others. He convinces her that now that she has hurt the others on set, they are out to get her even more, and she must manipulate them even harder and only listen to what he says, because only he loves her and can save her. As this all is happening, we are getting the slow drip of Jocelyn's backstory: Jocelyn is a child who was abused by her mom with the brush and whose tears and begging do nothing to change her abusers mind. Her mother somehow manages to spend Jocelyn's entire child actor earnings despite Coogan's law to pay off various debts. The only part we have yet to see if the day of her mothers' death. Jocelyn is backstage, and the weekend encourages her to do something manipulative to Destiny or someone else who has been kind to her. When they are crying, and Jocelyn realizes she has hurt her only true friend in the world. She snaps, grabs the infamous hairbrush (which I am imagining is designed to have a sharpened end) and is about to stab the weekend, when suddenly she looks a mirror reflecting the whole scene and is hit with a flashback: When Jocelyn was a child, she had to become crafty, lie and manipulate her mother as a coping mechanism and in order to survive. The actual cause of her Mother's death is not cancer, but Jocelyn getting caught by her mother in a lie, her mother about to beat her with the brush, and Jocelyn managing to grab it and stab her instead. Just like she is about to do with the weekend. But is this flashback real? Is it the weekend manipulating her mind somehow? Was this the right thing to do, or does this make her no better than the weekend/her abusive mother? Does some part of her still love the weekend/her mom despite all the pain they put her through, or is that just the abuse and the part of society that tells women that they must love their family/lovers unconditionally? Are mom/the weekend like this because they went through their own cycles of abuse, or does that not even matter? Is she just perpetuating a cycle of violence? All these possibilities flood into her mind and she breaks down. The weekend escapes. The final episode is one where Jocelyn heals. She accepts that what her mom/the weekend did was never ok despite their history, and painfully accepts that the same applies to her behavior. Not sure the exact plot points of this yet, but she finds people who truly love her for who she is, gets out of the messed up Hollywood industry, and begins to work on feeling better. Maybe if you want a final dark and spooky twist, she is performing in a small community musical theater, auditioning for a role alongside some other people she has made friends with. She goes backstage to fix her hair and makeup, and when she looks in the mirror, she sees the weekend again. They talk, with her refusing to look him in the eyes, and she defiantly discusses all the progress she has made. He smirks and tells her she has some hairs out of place, and puts down the hairbrush on the table 'in case she needs it'. She quickly turns around to tell him off, but he isn't there. She picks up the hairbrush and stares at it. We hear one of her auditioning friends ask who she is talking to and if she is coming out to finish the audition with the rest of them. She stares at the brush as if struggling to decide something, says "Yeah, just a minute" and the scene ends on that shot. (ooooh spooky, is the weekend part of her mind or not? Will she return to the manipulative habits that were engrained in her as coping mechanisms or not? Much ambiguous, very applause, I will be taking my oscar now) I mean, this won't fix all the messed up behind-the-scene-stuff, but at least it would make for a bearable narative.

[@Saphia_]

I would pay to see this, provided it is actually handled well,

[@riahfilmx]

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@bobb.boberson4437]

@@Saphia_ Based on how the weekend is currently behaving, I'm guessing anyone who tries to make money off of a script doctor of this show would probably get their pants sued off. But it might be possible as a free fan fiction on ao3 (or in the youtube comments section :P)!

[@lovelymill]

you are freaking genius, ma friend

[@-alovelygaycat-]

Here’s your Oscar as requested 🏆 (There isn’t an Oscar emoji so this will have to do) This is actually a great pitch and I would love to read/watch this.

[@jaredpaul9970]

This was genuinely the most out of touch I’ve ever seen a show. It was glorified r**e and a glamorization of drugs and substance abuse. Sam Levinson has got to get a grip, and the fact that Abel was okay with this says a lot about his character.

[@AM-vk7qx]

knowing the footage is still out there is so frustrating. really hoping that HBO realizes they can recoup their losses by releasing it as another diector’s cut

[@virginiaraine2207]

I think the saddest craziest thing is some of the plot lines like “your mom died and you became a needy psycho bitch” as her like agents tell her , and then also like the hairbrush? Then on top of that a nude is leaked of her and instead of like “omfg this is revenge porn” it’s like “it’s not that bad right ?” Like Jesus it was so tone deaf. And it was like weird porny acting , they had some good ass talent and couldn’t utilize it because the weekend was just dick slinging wverywhere

[@fulyaarkan8500]

This sam levinson's gaze is giving me chills 😖🥶💀

[@missstranger7697]

You sense the shivers?

[@morganqorishchi8181]

You know, there could have been something there to the idea of Jocelyn being dismissed because she's sex-positive as an artist. Women get shamed for enjoying sex in a way I as a man have never, ever been. It would have been nice if they'd followed through on that and shown us men who think of her as stupid or airheaded for her refusal to be ashamed of her sexuality, and then shown us how intelligent and perceptive she is, because in reality women can be both smart and sexual, just as men can be both. Buuuut they didn't actually *do* that, so the statement about her being underestimated doesn't make any sense looking at the show we got.

[@purplepotato3004]

It's amazing that vampire by Olivia Rodrigo said more in one song than The Idol did in five episodes

[@cecimn3977]

girl, i literally think this is THE BEST comentary video on the idol i have watched, by far. i love how serious you took the subject and it is actually still easy and not traumatizing to hear along with you. i think you made a killing point when talking about the intimacy coordinator in ep.1, you stabbed this show to death girl lol slay??! also, need to compliment your vocabulary lol fr you deliver serious matters in such a clear way, loved it. if you haven't, you should read "Femininity and domination" by Sandra Lee Bartky. Jordan, I LOVE your content lol anyway xo girl

[@beccabowen4292]

I'm gonna take this reading rec x agree with everything you said btw!

[@CalvinChikelue]

I honestly find it extremely wild that immediately after the show insults & undermines Intimacy Coordinators, suggesting they “stifle” the agency & sexual expression of actors/actresses, it obliviously follows it up with a plot point of the MC having her nude body ruthlessly exploited without any of her consent. They literally pre-undermine their own plot point by making fun of the very idea of being invested in avoiding a performer’s body & caring enough to ask the people around them to be equally committed to avoiding exploitation.

[@nne2126]

"but I don't think sam levinson's smart enough for that" I love you for that jordan

[@pneuma6202]

I'm starting to believe Sam isn't even talented. He took Euphoria - originally an Israeli show - and it's acknowledge that Skins is an influence (VERY heavy influence, might I add.) Yeah, he is an addict and that may inspire it A BIT... but I am also an addict, and I'll telling you right now... I doubt a lot of those experiences are ACTUALLY his, and probably shit he heard in the rooms. Sounds like he comes from a well off family - and even if they cut him off, that's going to impact A LOT. Must be nice to be able to go to rehab multiple times... I only was able to go once, and insurance stopped paying after 2 weeks. I bet Sam never was sex trafficked - But that shows up as a risk in the show. I was, however. I didn't even realize it until recently - and it was obvious. But it sure wasn't like the show... A lot of the addict experience is NOTHING like the show... this is, unless you're from a well-to-do family. But Rue isn't. So it's hardly even believable.

[@Helen-oi7qm]

I am from a middle to upper class family, it was NOTHING like that for me

[@kayleehogness7184]

This is a great video and this is not a criticism just an add on: Intimacy coordinators are not only for female actors. We typically think of their job as related to women because we hear more about women being exploited but intimacy coordinators are their to protect all actors and the crew on set Regardless of gender identity to make sure everyone is comfortable and safe and consenting to what they are going to be doing or seeing on set.

[@whatalsaid]

The hairbrush being “new” makes no sense, since there’s multiple scenes of Jocelyn aggressively brushing her hair with it.

[@ErikaCartet]

god that bothered me so fucking much. the only way you could look at a hairbrush and determine that it’s “brand new” is if it truly had just been bought and there wasn’t a single hair/the bristles were completely clean. but she’s been shown brushing her hair with it, so obviously that’s not true. so were we supposed to infer from that scene that jocelyn had bought a new identical brush? but then what would the implication be in that case? because obviously that would have nothing to do with whether or not her account of her mother’s abuse with the brush was real or not. like what the hell did they want us to take away from that scene??? i’m so genuinely befuddled

[@thea7592]

even though i’ve seen a bunch of videos dissecting the idol trainwreck, i really appreciated how you delved into the behind the scenes and production details, i haven’t heard about these things before and it felt like it added a new understanding to what really happened for the shownto be butchered on many levels

[@ray-mc-l]

haha i love the cherry picked photos of sam levinson where he looks unhinged

[@nicoleism3]

The way they essentially portrayed rape culture as not real THROUGH rape culture

[@alyssahouseman230]

Sam Levinson’s take on Korn in everyday society is terrifying, just because it’s all he thinks abt he thinks everyone is the same ????

[@ChillingTales12]

What did he say?

[@stellarae8257]

i try not to create too strong of opinions on pieces of media that i haven't personally read/watched/listened to/etc, but this show is an exception. it makes me genuinely sick to my stomach. we need to have more discussions about the line between "im a fully consenting adult who enjoys s-xual activities like degradation" and "im a victim of abuse/people are taking advantage of me". i dont care what people say, there is not a world where smashing someone's face into a desk for gratification is acceptable in any circumstance. s-x is an extremely complicated subject that deserves sooo much studying to completely understand, but understanding where these desires come from in the first place is so essential to determining how to safely go about exploring them and whether or not theyre things you genuinely want.

[@pixiestxNyomouf]

Not one lie told. I myself said this "Is it sexual liberation or is a woman's open sexuality being exploitated?"

[@crabbycancer6767]

If he wanted the show to be about him so bad he should've played as Jocelyn at least then his music playing in the background wouldn't take me out of the story

[@dylanraeann6470]

Exactly!! He was so insistent on having more screen time why didn’t he just pitch the show to be about himself in the first place 🤦🏻‍♀️.

[@malglove]

Truly blessed by this video. The Idol haunts me daily.

[@soniaiboyako4023]

All of this is literally Cassie Howard beat for beat yet everyone was eating that up and treating it as some fun community building exercise every week instead of seeing how weird it was to play along w the "bad victim" narrative... The revenge porn storyline where the pictures/footage are shown (for it to be dropped pretty quick), the *victim* that actually really enjoys being abused and is even kind of the problem to begin with, sexual violence being passed as something else, all the sexual violence that doesn't even make it in, the gratuitous nudity etc. etc. etc.

[@gigiarmany4332]

huh??

[@soniaiboyako4023]

@@gigiarmany4332 ?

[@eurekamreum5458]

​@@gigiarmany4332 they're saying that many of the tropes used for Cassie's character in S2 were also used on Jocelyn's, and that many people were dumping on her instead of questioning where tf did all that mess come from

[@aspacelex]

Good to know one could accurately refer to the show as Epstein's the Idol.

[@michalapalmer8874]

When you were talking about who would be a good Tedros (however you spell it) I immediately thought of Daniel Kaluuya! He played a really good villain in the movie Widows

[@m.ya.9032]

I haven't watched this video yet. But don't think for a second that I've forgotten about the promised part two of the Love is Blind analysis video 😢

[@roxycauldwell544]

The Weeknd gives me the ick. When he eventually probably does something awful i will 100% not be surprised. He hides behind "art" as an excuse for his probably true misogynistic views and fantasy.

[@luxlisbon7979]

the fact that the story was changed and the jocelyn merch could never be featured is simply so heartbreaking. i wish amy’s cut could be leaked so we could see what it would’ve looked like, or even released in a couple years

[@0Flow0]

I heard you mention the Girlfriend Experience. That show is also female torture porn. I couldn't finish the second season.

[@Laurenjoinsyoutube]

You’re not alone cuz I’ve been singing “I’m just a freak yeah” for no reason

[@issyjones882]

Tedros practicing how he’s going to greet Jocelyn reminds me of that near identical scene is Gnomeo and Juliet where Gnomeo is practicing his pick up lines

[@sapphic.flower]

21:30 the cinematographer: I was looking at a lot of voyeuristic thrillers (for inspo) Definition of voyeuristic: relating to or denoting sexual pleasure gained from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity OR deriving or relating to enjoyment from seeing the pain and distress of others I’m over how men think the way they “study” and “recreate” women’s objectification makes it any deeper when it’s still just objectification. You can write women struggling or in intercourse without being voyeuristic.

[@Taz_Davies]

Jordan, how dare you, I swore I was over watching videos about The Idol and then you go and do this😂

[@walnutsrcool]

As someone who has to physically fight a man off of me who I has consented to sex with, but not sex without a condom with. It’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape.

[@trinityolusola394]

im getting my hair put in box braids today, and this is the perfect long video!!

[@akinaneon-xz6oj]

Your box braids take less than 8 hr?!

[@trinityolusola394]

they don’t lolllll but i needed to watch longer videos and a Jordan Theresa videos are long an interesting!!

[@andre-cmyk]

8:30 simply put: because making audiovisual content takes exponentially more people than making music. i say this as a musician and a film student: they are INSANELY two different mediums, and if there's one thing that is hammered down at my school is that audiovisual is a collective effort in 99% of cases. he is genuinely just saying shit about something he doesn't know anything about

[@AschKris]

There's a good show being held hostage inside The Idol which we sadly will never see

[@shannonobrien6875]

i feel like Sam Levinson is the type to read Lolita and think Humbert Humbert was the victim…. idk that’s just the vibes the Idol gives me.

[@scheibez]

45:20 this is such a good point… i feel like people really underestimate how much porn has shaped society’s views on women (specifically) and consent. i mean, this exact point was LITERALLY explored in s1 of euphoria with cassie and mckay’s relationship… so ironic 🥴

[@graceruark1086]

Obsessed with you choosing the most horrific goblin photo I've ever seen of Sam whenever you're recounting something he said

[@Sopg949]

I feel like….if you really are a good storyteller you would be able to show how sexualized this character is without having to just have boobs on the screen, relying on her physical body. Because being objectified goes deeper than that, it’s an emotional thing. I haven’t seen the show so idk, but I just think nudity or at least excess of it is just not necessary for the story. Also, Sam Levinson has a very spooky look in his eyes !!!!!!!

[@kaialexander6806]

You know, as an abuse survivor, this show is both deeply offensive to me and deeply infuriating. The actual portrayal on screen is shallow, confusing and has harmful implications, _but_ the portrayal also constantly threatens to explore the different effects child abuse has on victims if they escape their abuser and make it to adulthood. And I'm really thankful you mentioned it because a lot of videos I've seen on it have criticised it but not gone into much detail. While that dinner scene made me so angry I had to pause the show and go through a grounding technique to calm myself down, it begins to play with the idea that the abuse served as motivation and may have been responsible partly for success a survivor has. And that is something a lot of us really struggle with. For example, the abuse I suffered at my dad's hand made me feel unloveable. Because of that, I spent my childhood trying to get him to love me by being the perfect child, and that led me into being accepted to study at Cambridge when I was 17. And though I was obviously proud of myself and the work I'd put in, there was always a part of me wondering if that achievement was even mine or if it was another attempt to get my dad's love. I hadn't even spoken to him in two years at that point. I spent years wrestling with it, but I ended up rejecting the offer for various reasons. That choice really freed me because while it took a few years to come round to it, it allowed me cracks in my armour. I don't have to be that perfect child. And the show toys with the idea of exploring it; we get some shallow scenes and the hairbrush ends as a confusing motif. But there was so much potential there. Undoubtedly, the abuse Jocelyn suffered did lead to a better performance the same way my dad telling me he'd rather kill himself than be my dad contributed to my unwavering determination to get into Cambridge. But that doesn't make it okay; it doesn't make it their accomplishment; and it doesn't mean you can't achieve unless you're being abused. It could have been so interesting to see Jocelyn wrestle with it rather than just giving us cringy sex scenes that straddle the border of sexualising domestic abuse. It's the same with the self-harm. The show uses it as fridge magnet to make their show controversial and deep and whatever. But like as someone who is 1 year and 40 days clean of self-harm, there was something there that could have been explored. You could link it with what I mentioned above and have her feel like she needs to be hurt to function because yeah, as an abuse survivor, that's a very easy and very harmful mentality you can fall into (and @past me, why'd you do one of it in a grid because now I have a noughts and crosses scar), and the hairbrush could be a really good motif here. It's just wasted potential. All of it. Also, I reckon Sam Claiflin could have been a good Tedros. He's got charm, charisma and magnetism down, and most people remember him from The Hunger Games. But anyone who's seen The Nightingale knows how terrifying he can be. I'd also put forward Skeet Ulrich because if he can pull off Billy Loomis, he can pull off Tedros.

[@shilalove3631]

I don’t think there’s a 1 way to portray a survivor of Abuse, Everyone reacts differently to different things. But your totally right in the way you describe escaping your abuser but not being able to escape some habit that came with it. And to add, Yes they could’ve picked Sam Or someone charming or charismatic but Abel specifically told the The director that he didn’t want a villain people could romanized, but someone the audience will be disgusted, so even with him, they try to make effort to make him irritating

[@TC-tl8ie]

What you said at 16:40 about the Jocelyn character's self-sexualization made perfect sense. Too bad "a certain someone" thought that it was "too focused on the female perspective. "

[@halihal7699]

I feel like HBO could have nearly solved the housing crisis in the U.S. with the amount of money wasted beholden to Levinson and Tfsaye :/

[@Oobs212]

oh the cinematography being done Like That explains why there was an entire dialogue back and forth shot with the sole view of the back of Tesla's head in the pilot. That shot bothered the ever loving hell out of me, thank you for releasing me from this burden

[@a.d.8827]

Someone make a change petition to release the amycut