The Illusion of Choice - How Games Balance Freedom and Scope - Extra Credits

[@S4R1N]

Strongly disagree with the "lighted area" idea, most people I know who grew up with comparatively difficult games (no internet to find all the hidden things, you had to find these yourself), people like us actively avoid those glowing areas because we'd rather not walk right into a "trigger" when there's still potentially things we're missing out on.

[@SianaGearz]

+S4R1N What if the game could learn based on your past actions whether you're an "explorer" or a "rusher" and replace elements accordingly in order to railroad you better? Then again some games simply offer nothing to explore, nothing off the beaten path. I guess the game can teach you to rush rather than explore, if it wants to.

[@S4R1N]

Siana Gearz See, now that would be some excellent game design. wouldn't mind seeing how that could be executed.

[@BecauseYNotYT]

+S4R1N That would be really complex to program and expensive too for something that the player may never notice (I,m a programer and game desinger)

[@SianaGearz]

Luis Javier Galvan Lozano the best kind of railroading is the one the player does not notice. Your task is to entertain, not to show off. True enough with regard to cost and complexity, but it could be worth it.

[@kisatorimuru6627]

+Siana Gearz I think a great example of this is the Stanley Parable, there's so much choice and you are allowed to both follow and ignore the narrator's voice.

[@egarulastinn7438]

Seriously? Any highlighted door is the LAST place I always go, because I never want to miss any content.

[@juanistic]

+Kora Octavia The worst part is when you are trying to avoid the main plot-line and then find out that the other route or choice was actually the side story, which you'll never encounter again.

[@DragoonWarrior790]

+Kora Octavia Same here. I think this illusion of choice is the biggest problem for explorer type of players. We want to find everything, or at least most of it. With some games this illusion becomes too clear when you replay the game so it's not helping replayability.

[@myrec8883]

+Kora Octavia Try that in DarkSouls ... that will not work as intended.

[@iPadVulk]

+myrec8883 That's probably true for everything in Dark Souls ;)

[@onewhosaysgoose4831]

Coming to a set of two open doors, Stanley took the door on his left.

[@Ebolson1019]

Playing Pokémon Diamond and came across this, dawn asked me to pick the item in their right hand or left hand, I didn't know what each held. I picked the right hand and wondered what the left hand held, went back to my last save and this time I picked the left hand. Both hands held the same item so it made no difference, but at first I felt like I had a choice.

[@tristanneal9552]

Bryan Olson I remember that!!! I spent a long time wondering what was in the other hand XD

[@dexis9412]

Bryan Olson I love Pokemon diamond, first ever Pokemon game, and I still have it! I played it so much that the game timer has stopped ticking (999:59) and the DS will only register it in the slot 1/2 the time and a simple bump will make it say "the game cartridge has been removed, please press the power button" ahh memories

[@sp00kytom80]

In XY, you can pick either a Master Ball or a Big Nugget, and get both

[@TheAntiYuu]

Nah she’s just playing.

[@gerbendekker3273]

Schrodinger's Dawn's other-hand-item

[@slyfoxhomie01]

so 90% of the choices in all telltale games

[@yipyipyipi]

Lmftfy 100%

[@MemeAnt]

Rip telltale

[@NicholasFadow-o4q]

110%

[@dapperghastmeowregard]

I dunno, I think "Notice this" effects have the opposite effect on me. I see the giant glowing treasure chest and go "Okay, that's how I advance the plot, now lets see what was in all those nooks and crannies first. Hope it's some super sweet items I can never use because what if I need them later?"

[@PramodRamesh]

Dapperghast Meowregard Yup, the designers did do their job. The intention is to make players recognize the critical path, not always immediately follow it. Which is why they add those nooks and crannies. If you are completely lost, that's when they failed.

[@TheHadMatters]

Pramod Ramesh I don't know if that responds to what Dapperghast criticised. Extra Credits claimed that "visual highlighting" could make us enjoy linear games more due to the illusion of choice. I like them in open world games, but that does not make them any less annoying in linear games. I do not dislike such games on principle, if their plot is good, and the experience challenging and rewarding my efforts. But those visual highlighting features make me really lose the touch with the experience, if they attempt to convince me of choices I do not have. That just creates a desire which the game then fails to fulfil.

[@arandomhashbrown3756]

Seems like you would enjoy Stanley Parable

[@Danmarinja]

Mirrors edge is a master at making levels that feel much bigger through visual clues to hint at your direction, especially early in the game. In those parts, you're running at full speed, improvising your escape route to find a way to safety, and by having the visual style of the game mostly barren whites with individual bold colours (bright red) the designers constantly show where the 'right' path is, even though that's the only one, a feature that is only complemented by the fact that the whole game takes place on rooftops, and a wrong path leads you plummeting to your death.

[@kooperphillips268]

The illusion of choice was amazing in Mirrors Edge, much like how it was in the PS3-4 exclusive Infamous series. The choices in those games really only saw that you either get new powers or characters get new dialogue relating to that choice, but the amazing thing that makes it feel like a choice is how the characters personalities change and shift with everything you do. Npcs are running scared/cheering for you, you're friends are more harsh about the things you've done/care about you (the character) and ask if you have gotten past everything that has happened, relationships with other characters can crumble and be completely destroyed/you're love interest reconciles with you or you're close friend acts like a brother ("love can bloom on the battlefield" Otacon - Metal Gear Solid PS1)

[@a-blivvy-yus]

+DiscoClam Even the places where there's more than one "red" path, the choice doesn't last long before you're guided back to the same door/corridor/jump to the next roof but from a slightly different angle. And there are places where nothing is marked out in red, but it's really obvious that you want to go this way, or that way first THEN this way, but in the end you'll always end up making that jump, following the path, and hitting all the right set pieces along the way. But it (almost) never feels like you're doing it because it's the only option. Of particular note are moments where you're either chasing or being chased, and a path gets blocked off by a new group of enemies - it feels dynamic, even though it's forcing you down that linear path.

[@HeliosMaximus]

Once again, Bioshock does this everywhere, and the major twist shines a light on it. By making this fact part of the story, however, it's thought of as brilliant.

[@jameskoffarnus]

5:39 the literal opposite of me I try my hardest to see what the game can and cannot do, I try my hardest to break the game

[@moonwalklover901]

I don't try my hardest to break the game in every aspect, I just try my hardest to get to the designer's "high place over there you can't get to" and sit there. I don't know why, but I like finding obscure ways to climb things in games.

[@MeteorShower2]

Now i want an ilussion of choice dragon plushie...

[@davidgold3nrose]

Efrén Alonso me too

[@mariophreak]

you can't. It's an illusion.

[@pacomatic9833]

@@mariophreak Big brain

[@darelh1348]

I think this is why Undertale feels like it has more choice than Until Dawn. In Until Dawn it's very easy to see when your 'choices' don't have much real influence on the game, and for a game which is all about the butterfly effect where you're expecting a lot of branches this is very disappointing. Whereas in Undertale people feel as if there is great weight in their choices despite there being fewer outcomes than in Until Dawn, because it hides when choices don't matter well.

[@darelh1348]

Although then again, the main reason people wanted to play UD was because it was a AAA choice game, when most choice focused games are from smaller developers (at least in my experience). Whereas people don't really expect there to be so much choice in UT, since that's not the game's focus: you have to play all the three main routes to understand the story anyway, so if you want to 'complete' the game you'll end up having to make certain choices.

[@lextrux]

I'm glad to see you guys are still around ^^ missed you a bunch when you left Escapist and I lost track from you guys for a while after :(

[@HaniiPuppy]

Only adding the illusion of choice and not introduce actual choices and storyline splitting (Avernum game, Skyrim, etc.), or a fleshed-out choice system (a la Fallout) pretty much obliterates any replayability. One of the things I loved about Beyond: Two Souls was how the choices in the game weren't chosen through explicitly picking dialogue options or selecting options from a list, but were determined by your ability to succeed in a particular task/event, and even on the way you handled it. This made me feel all the more annoyed, cheated, disappointed, when I realised that the choices were absolutely meaningless, and that no matter what I did, the same thing would happen. This didn't simply abolish the replayability of the game, but also destroyed my positive feelings about the previous playthrough. What is so bitter to me about that game specifically, is the fact that, not only could the fluid choice-making system have been paired beautifully with a fallout-style choice system, but the structure of the heavily storyline-based game would have both made making these choices feel substantial a hell of a lot easier, but also make them so much more satisfying - a rare combination. How marvellous would it have been to play as Aidan and (beyond reason) attack Jodie ... and then be confronted with the consequences of attacking her in parts that are later in her timeline, as well as parts earlier in her timeline that would give off hints as to why Aidan might want to attack Jodie, as well as inject this marvellous sort-of reverse foreshadowing of the event when you're fulfilling whatever it is you're doing in parts of her timeline before you attacked her.

[@CasualGraph]

Kinda surprised nobody's mentioned The Stanley Parable on here yet, given how it's arguably centered around the idea of choice (or at least that's where the idea for the game came from).

[@yo19951O9rk]

and Heavy Rain.

[@Cru5y]

hah, i were going to write the same thing actually :D happy to see someone else playing tSP (and i hope enjoying it) as it is one of my favourite games just because what you said and where it brings.

[@DUDESuperRoblox]

More specifically, it's designed around mocking the idea of choice in games as much as possible. Also humor. That's very important.

[@billyte1265]

When I saw that vibrant environment at 5:46, I felt like I was playing in a vibrant environment

[@kakianyx]

These videos are great, the illustrations are brilliant

[@chedruid]

One of your best episodes! The Illusion of Choice was also present in almost all RPGs (at least to some degree), from Atari's 2600 "Dragonstomper", to Final Fantasy and Fallout.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Cool

[@cuttingscizor]

A man chooses, a slave obeys

[@BlueAmpharos]

5:27 I notice that all the time, especially after the hidden skulls and terminals in the Halo series... now I search every corner of the environment and it doesn't take long to see that I can't go five feet away from that road.

[@RazorEdge2006]

The best examples of choices I've seen in games come from the Visual Novel genre. In those games, almost every decision matters and could lead you down completely different narrative paths. Thyey're kind of like what he was saying about The Witcher 2, but instead of just two paths, you have anywhere from several to dozens of paths in VN's. And the reason why they can pull off such elaborate choices is because of the low-budget production values, whereas it would be far more expensive to pull off something like that in a big-budget game. Some good VN's I'd recommend are Yu-No, Clannad, Fate Stay Night, Steins Gate, 999, and Zero Escape. Now those are great examples of how choices should be done in games.

[@kisatorimuru6627]

I recall playing this game called Machine Knight, and at one point there's a scene where you are told to make a decision and this ended with no interaction to the plot. if course at the end there was some branching ending but there was this point where you choose between the two heroines and it really stood out with the game.

[@BeBoBli]

You kidding? I saw right through Mass Effect's lack of actual dialogue trees very quick and felt it very shallow. If that's the audience you think one should appeal to, I simply disagree, for I'd rather one not so easily fooled.

[@IlayYoeli]

This

[@LordErebusBloodmoon]

have fun rarely enjoying this technique.

[@BeBoBli]

Lord Erebus Don't get me wrong, I do see how it takes some skill, but I'd rather it not be at the expense of the player's experience even if they did well to save on space & VA money.

[@BeBoBli]

***** Switch to mostly text; problem solved. What's that? Have to appeal to shallow consumers...? It's a fucking dialogue driven RPG. 99% of the customer base would never complain out of either apathy or understanding.

[@LordErebusBloodmoon]

bebobli people get turned off by walls of text... like seriously you just turned a game away from like 60% of its potential crowd. Sure people like me and you wouldn't be fazed but most people would.

[@TheRayny]

"Have i ever mentioned that we have our own Extra Credits youtube channel?" ... so from this started everything for me, huh?

[@welcometohell3002]

Illusion of choice is great for the first playthrough, and it saves the developers a lot of money. Real choice is more difficult to create, but it adds tons of replayability. They both have their pros and cons, and both are good options.

[@HiddenRealm]

I do want to point out the whole, subconcious path taking idea, and talk about some horror games for a second. 1. ever play a game where you are out in the dark woods alone? Remember how you just followed that trail, or went to that lightpost? yup there it is right there... remember the subtle dread you feel, when you know the only route is through the darkest hallway? yup it's there again, but in reverse that time, because your mind wants to take the light pathway, but it's usually blocked off.

[@jontobin5942]

I noticed this almost immediately while playing Skyrim but it didnt seem particularly noteworthy until I was made to realy think about it by a friends question about the size of Skyrim compared to real life. When I responded that the province of Skyrim in square meters could probably fit whithin our own small city (pop about 20,000) in Illinois. He couldn't believe it. He was estimating sizes on the scale of half the state, and it occurred to me how truly clever the game designers where about presenting the illusion of scale. I showed him the areas I had noticed where about ten feet of walking distance on a trail caused the game to shift the dynamic climate effects and change the ambient sounds slightly to give you this feeling of having a huge world to explore. It did this gradually in several places. The placement of seemingly sweeping vistas and a plethora of encounters gave you the impression of an epic journey when really you had only traveled about as far as walking to the center of our town would take.

[@MrNisseKiller]

Really great episode! And I also enjoyed the toons, or whatever you want to call them, more than I normally do :)

[@dazurak4098]

You know, the first thing I thought of with the example given at 2:37 was Telltale's The Walking Dead game. Oftentimes, you'll make decisions that tend to diverge the gameplay slightly depending on who you side with. And having the "____ will remember that," was a surprisingly good way to let the player know that their decision actually had some form of impact. Characters would often tend to bring up these points in future arguments, especially if you decided to side with one character after siding with the one they just argued with. But on a second playthrough, you would normally go back through, doing the opposite of what you did the previous playthrough, and realize that most of your decisions had little to impact at all, with most outcomes mostly being the same no matter what decision you made.

[@SarenthDricten]

+Christian Ingham (Dazurak) What I think is powerful about The Walking Dead vs. Mass Effect, is that TWD did not bother trying to tell you that your choices ultimately mattered to anyone but you. Hell, they put the comparison of different pathways for yours vs. others' choices right in the end of the chapter. Then, TWD is an experience utterly different than ME. The former is a horror game, and for the reasons they've given here and in other movies, is a great example of a game. For me, it was a really hard-hitting, powerful experience. ME was similar, but it was empowerment fantasy up to the last 15 or so minutes, in which the entire curtain and curtain rod is ripped down and out of the wall. You're forced into a place where, for all the hours you spent leveling, building relationships, and in my case, spending quite a lot of time online getting the numbers up for the war, you are utterly powerless. This wouldn't have been an issue in TWD because that's expected because of the genre and the expectations the game builds right from the beginning. Hell, when I started the game and tried to save Hershel's kid, because I'd never played a Telltale Game before I reloaded my save and tried a different dialogue option, thought maybe I was being too slow, reloaded again, then finally got the idea of "Oh. This is a fixed point in time. The only thing that matters is *my* response" that the game was already operating under. In ME not only are our choices supposed to narratively matter (whole parts of dialogue trees change depending on how you crafted your backstory, some subtle, some not; same goes for whoever your romantic partner was) but you are empowered by the game to affect deep change on the whole of the universe. Granted, the Reavers have been saying this whole time "You can't understand us," and "Your feelings/reactions/etc. are irrelevant" but then you start kicking Reaver ass in ME3 and *winning* big time only to have all of that really swept away in the last 5-10 minutes of the story. The DLC they added in to retcon some of the ending did mollify the anger I held, but I did have quite a bit of anger for awhile for sinking 100 hours into a powerful experience only for the ending to fall as flat as it did.

[@Elkones]

I feel like a really good example of the illusion of choice are the walking dead games (the telltale ones) Every time in those games when you have the choice to either save one of two characters, (or just have the choice of saving or leaving a character to die) the person you saved will die about 10-20 minutes later, and often in the next 'episode' This is actually a pretty smart move on telltale's part as by the next episode it wont be fresh in your memory that you just saved someone when they die five minutes in. It makes you feel at the time of the choice like their life was in your hands, when really it never was.

[@applelachian]

I think this is very prevalent/horrifying when you watch multiple people play TWD/Heavy Rain/Beyond:Two Souls- you feel like the choice makes a difference, but then when you watch someone else's path and the exact same thing happens, you feel like the choice is for nothing. = =

[@stephen2624]

I hate this whole "illusion of freedom" because people use it as an excuse to bash Final Fantasy XIII some more.

[@TheDanteEX]

+Elk160 I think it's fine for the most part in The Walking Dead because your character is making choices but he/she doesn't control fate or consequences. You're just one person in the world and the games are telling a story with decisions and not a "choose your own adventure" story.

[@TyrBarghest]

I think the comparison with the soldiers laying down razor wire was a bad one. There's plenty of us who would just open fire and keep going until we hit an invisible wall. Skyrim is a good example of that. Just because I see a dragon in the distance doesn't mean I'm turning around. No. I going to keep going straight until I hit and invisible wall. If the dragon wants some then I'll simply kick it's ass.

[@heello2u465]

And they left out Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, and anything that would weaken this video.

[@failgun]

But Minecraft is procedurally generated and has no narrative, and the consequences of your decisions in Dwarf Fortress are usually very simple.

[@oriyomilana]

True, i would normally save(if available) the game and head straight to soldier just to see what happens. If it is to a deadend the soldiers retaliation is usually soo overwhelming that after 2 - 3 tries i proceed to expected direction. Then ocassionally retry (especially when there are "signs" that suggests a route after the soldiers) - This is common in "Silent Assassin" (My favourite SPG)

[@heello2u465]

J Halson Isnt that still choice anyway? like does the size or lack of a decision falsify a point in any way? and what do you mean narrative?

[@autumnchiu1162]

Heello2u Could you elaborate on how Minecraft or Dwarf Fortress undermine their message?

[@derinedala5032]

Undertale uses illusory choice to amazing effect. The vast majority of non-combat choices you make in the game have no effect on the unfolding of the story whatsoever beyond a handful of dialogue pieces, and yet it's one of the most responsive-feeling games I've ever played.

[@chedruid]

well said Ross, to be honest, this Extra Credit's episode really fuels our mind for what is really a choice and what is not :)

[@AppleWoods6]

inFAMOUS 1 and 2 really used this well when they made it so your karma can carry on to inFAMOUS 2 based on your inFAMOUS 1 save data and there are missions in inFAMOUS 2 that reward or punish you based on which karma path you're continuing from the first game. The karma system in these games itself is also a good example of this concept.

[@SushiCatto]

Agreed, it was great fun trying to go from evil in InFamous 1 to good in 2. Or vice versa.

[@iliaso10]

something tells me about bioshock you know the all known plot twist "would you kindly"

[@zoekoo6]

Yes i played it and god the choche feels taken but it wasent thear so it makes the elusion OfCource you got the lil sisters and the bosses but by taking it will give the elusion (like Stanley parible) of it

[@macgyvermankirk572]

5:42 Very, very clever. They're talking about discovering a hidden lack of content and to do that, they reuse a frame from before.

[@jahkra9259]

guys I would like to point out Dark Souls for no reason at all

[@Noremaad]

Dark Souls is a great example! For instance, you can *choose* to be brave and fight the red dragon and be stomped ferociously into the cement, OR you can *choose* to avoid the red dragon, only to have it show up later and stomp you ferociously into the cement!

[@nicat6153]

+Noremaad Hahahaha, Dark Souls in one sentence :D

[@jahkra9259]

I love that

[@mr.cup6yearsago211]

This reminds me of the ending of subsurface circular, I won't spoil it, but I sat there for a good half hour debating the choice, and still felt satisfied with my decision after making it, even though it actually barely changed the ending at all.

[@KSerge83]

That last bit about directing the player with lighting was used extensively in the Left4Dead games, if anyone's looking for a great example. It offers the illusion of a diverse world with many paths, but the only "right" path that leads to the safe house has visual cues strewn about to lead the player to the end.

[@PlanetVyctory]

Illusion of choice is a slippery slope, because I think it's unnecessary. There is more than enough opportunity to put real choice into a game without having to pretend an actual choice exists. And if the player is on to you, you will ruin the very sense of agency you are trying to manufacture, the player will resent the game and that you took them for a fool.

[@Lawlietftw30]

Interesting viewpoint. Well, there are techniques to make choice without altering things for your main characters too much. I've seen it done before where you make choices that effect secondary characters, or characters you've met on your journey, and that has a permanent effect. It doesn't cost more to create because it doesn't change the main storyline, but if you ever go back and visit these characters again, the effects of your choices are still there.

[@grndragon7777777]

This brings back memories. The classic extra credits. Good times

[@Little3Pigs]

This is basically Radiant Historia, and that is probably the best example of using an illussion of choice, because it fits the narrative, enriches It, and at the same time it becomes part of the Gameplay.

[@CardboardArm]

I love the way Planescape Torment did this in the dialog options. You'd often have the same line with (Lie) / (Truth) written in front of it. It completely changed how you perceive your character in the dialog and the nature of the conversation. I miss that mechanic in Bioware games.

[@GSSAGE7]

The concept of throwing in little nods to your past choices is THE reason I love Alpha Protocol so much, in spite of its man, many, many [...] many flaws.

[@kennyholmessyr]

To contrast this, there's a game called "The Stanely Parable". it gives you the illusion of having no choice at all, but you can easily deviate from the Narrator's version of the Storyline and create a whole new storyline just through your actions, and there's even secret endings from the Hidden Choices that you can make.

[@Hector-bj3ls]

I really hate the "beads on a string" story. Because it doesn't matter what you do it always ends up the same, so the whole "illusion choice" is removed. You can often tell when you've arrived at the main branch again since suddenly most of the characters have forgotten that anything else actually happened. I want to see more game that are more like a tree with actual real different endings. Doesn't have to be many; even just two would be fine. Maybe the main story branches and doesn't re-converge. There could, if there must, be some "beads" along those paths too. That way the game actually has a replay factor instead of you replaying the game just to find out nothing changes when you make a different "choice".

[@rinlen002]

I think a visual novel or dating sim game might fit those requirements. Sure, the graphics mostly consist of 2D images of characters, backgrounds, and text, but in a good visual novel or dating sim, there are multiple endings to choose from depending entirely on your choice. I played this game called Katawa Shoujo, which is a dating sim where each character has a disability of some kind. There are five girls to date and each one has a bad, a neutral, and a good ending you can work your way toward.

[@Hector-bj3ls]

rinlen002 I personally wouldn't play a dating sim, but the novel idea could be interesting. I would really love to see a story driven game that has some choices along the way that really change the outcome of the game. Say you've got a LOTR style setting and a choice early in the game means that one of your team joins the bad guys and you can no longer defeat them. Or that even if you defeat them the world has been already been damaged too much and it's a bitter sweet ending. Or maybe something where important events happen even if you're not around. So if you choose to mess about in one area for too long you miss the important battle and your side looses. This wouldn't end the game it'd just make it harder to continue.

[@Hector-bj3ls]

Fernie Canto Sure, but the other characters in the game won't be able to detect it unless there is some sort of "system". For example you can put all your emotion into being the nicest Hero The Legend of Zelda has ever known, but people will treat you no differently than they do they guy that smashes all their pots.

[@Hector-bj3ls]

Fernie Canto It's not a problem, it'd just be nice. It helps with the immersion if the other characters can tell what you are trying to do and will react the way you'd expect.

[@candiedskull9841]

5:15 I have no actual clue why I do this, but I have a tendency to _not_ follow lights in games or roads, and therefore get lost quite frequently

[@namfomott1663]

5:09 this never works on me, for some reason when I see something that I want to go to, my brain always thinks: "If I go there I will progress, so I shouldn't go there until I have explored everything."

[@mattomanx77]

The little choice creature is so adorable!

[@Nevernamed]

I completely agree

[@GoinGreninja]

Solarius I also agree.

[@Ideeem]

I love all those "well" "bear" or scout saying "basically" in your videos :d

[@Ranokal]

As always, amazing stuff, guys. Keep it up.

[@TKstudios21]

This channel is everything the world needs.

[@liz5100]

I love how in the first Left 4 Dead game they did the exact opposite to you. Left lights that go no where and areas that are dead ins that both summon hoards when you get there. Giving you an anxiety I have never felt in a game before, every choice felt so real and important simply because when a path did end it ended logically and with consequences.

[@Madsovic999]

0:57 FUCK YEAH! i love the artist behind these!

[@willofbob]

My personal favourite illsuion of choice moment is the part in Bioshock: Infinite where you can give Elizabeth a pin with either a bird or a gilded cage on it. It has no effect on the game apart from a bit of texturing on Elizabeth's neck, but the way it's presented to you (through the fantastically enigmatic Lutece twins) makes it seem like you just made a huge decision.

[@Lucarioguild7]

all these episodes about choices make me really appreciate open world games even though they usually dont effect story just the fact that i can run into a random cave instead of following the arrow or whatever.

[@Lucarioguild7]

its like if they gave you the choice of running past those guys blocking the road before its completely blocked off and going on a short little adventure.

[@Cakatarn1]

Really made me think of Radiant Historia there. It both completely fits what you describe and then subverts it.

[@MrAofANLA]

Well, it's not always a *glowing* door, sometimes it's one where the light of the room just draws your attention to it. Well made games have you going in the right direction and not getting lost without you having to think about it.

[@HebaruSan]

I noticed that about Mass Effect, since I would routinely take different options whenever I had to re-do a conversation. Also I would probably go for head shots on the soldiers unrolling the razor wire, or possibly a grenade toss. THEN you see the real invisible wall, since if you really weren't supposed to do that, then either the soldiers are invincible, or the road turns into an actual dead end once they're dead.

[@Hector-bj3ls]

+HebaruSan I did the same thing in Fallout 4. Majority of the time it just has the NPC say something different and then do the same thing.

[@bw8696]

(Warning. Spoilers for The Last of Us ahead.) I'm assuming everyone remembers the final gameplay segment of The Last of Us, when you burst into the operating room to get Ellie back. Am I the only one who tried to make the choice not to kill any of them? When the first doctor picked up the scalpel to defend himself and Ellie, I tried putting my gun away and backing up to get him to put the scalpel down. I even walked out of the room and the surgeon still had it raised. Thinking I could just walk past him or push through him, I simply tried pushing forward. That's the point when Joel took the scalpel out of his hand and stabbed him in the eye. I was already horrified, but I was even more outraged when I couldn't pick up Ellie and take her away before killing the other 2 doctors cowering in the corner. The game was great, but Joel's actions in the end really pissed me off. The worst part, the player is forced to perform every action.

[@bw8696]

When I went for it, the button prompt was ghosted.

[@Gaff.]

I'm almost positive you don't need to kill them. In fact I think I killed the first doctor thinking I had to and my friend cried out in horror, and then I tried to avoid killing the others and I *believe* I was successful. Been some time since I played it, though.

[@TM-si1ky]

Brendan Wojcik You don't need to kill the doctors, only the one with the scapel on. But seriously, what did he expect him to do when you came back into the room? He would just lower his scapel because reasons of the unknown and let you take ellie?

[@AgentMurphy286]

Meaning that even though the choices aren't what they promise, the dialogue makes sense and feels natural no matter which option you choose.

[@Nevernamed]

When Stanley came to a set of two open doors, he entered the door on his left.

[@SupersuMC]

#unexpectedStanleyParable

[@pumperentchen]

I'm a wondering about the "highlighting" thing.. for like 80% of the time, whenever I see a highlight in a scene, my very, very first and deepest desire is to specifically NOT go for it, but to waddle around and to dabble into every dark corner first.. because I'm so obsessed with the fear I could miss out on something hidden. So, am I just an exception to the rule (maybe the right type for game testing, or maybe because I'm a duck and not a human)? Or is there just a biiiiig caveat to your suggestion?

[@surplusking2425]

That's why I love Fallout New Vegas. They don't rely on those petty 'illusion of choice' which excels from cheesy Japanese eroge and 'Telltale' so-called games. Pretty much major choices and even some minor choices matter so.

[@nelvela567]

The stanley parable anyone?

[@Hadgerz]

Stanley went through the door to his LEFT...

[@spellgalen808]

The broom closet ending was my favorite

[@aimia100]

Man I loved that game it was hilarious to see what the narrator had to shit on you this time. :')

[@jakejollimore5453]

Tyler rycew6wwy

[@CosmoForTheWin]

whats with the frame of "now thats what i call music at" 4:37?

[@thomassaurus]

I also want to know this.

[@Awsome2464]

+Kyle Scanlan Because he said "now"

[@fungiside]

As long as the marketing costs continue to greatly exceed development I'll feel entitled to more real choice.

[@LoneCloudHopper]

Well thought out and articulated as usual. I would just point out that sub-consciously gamers are aware of the illusion of choice but choose not to see it to keep having fun. This works fine for games which you beat and then leave behind. For long-term online games however the illusion in the choice gradually becomes more apparent, especially as you notice the similarity between the choices and story concepts being recycled. It begins to feel too familiar and draws attention to itself.

[@keltzar1]

I realize that Half Life 2 did a good job of this. Playing through the game it felt like I was moving through a huge open world and I was just trying to find the best path through all the obstacles. There were times when this got stretched thin (moments where a rock that was just a little too tall barred my movement) but for the most part it felt like an experience where I got to go through it however I wanted. In retrospect the game was actually very linear but it didn't feel like i was being led down a narrow corridor. Playing the game felt like finding a semi-safe path through a world that's falling apart.

[@puleinator22]

A lot of people are talking about treating players with more respect and not trying to fool them by giving them an illusion of choice. The way I see it, there are 2 main motivations to pretend there's choice where there's not (or to make a decision inconsequential: A) to fool players into thinking there's more content than there actually is, or B) to make the player feel more invested in making the illusory choice and to make the moment stand out more. Reason A is shallow and somewhat of an insult to players, but reason B is used to make limited resources pack more punch. It doesn't matter much that no real choice was there, because what's important is the FEELING of choice. Even if players figure it out on their next playthrough and see through the illusion, it still enhanced their experience on the first playthrough; it's not an insult to their intelligence, it's simply a tool to make the player feel more invested and in control, and that's where it's powerful.

[@puleinator22]

Also, Catherine did this wonderfully; a lot of choices felt important even though each individual one probably wasn't that important by itself.

[@ABlob]

I normally explore everything the level has to offer first before going to a highlighted area because I want to see as much of a game as possible and see if I haven't missed anything. Let's say I play Kirby and I come across a door. Would I immediately go in without thinking or think "Hm, how about I fly upwards and ignore the door?" and then get rewarded with something. And then when I know/think there's nothing left, I enter the door. So when the area is highlighted and I have invisible walls everywhere or the level doesn't let you explore, I'll find that out immediately thanks to me not wanting to immediately get done with a game.

[@ryansample6360]

I actually liked the "create smart, not create more" part as it highlights the reason WHY the illusion of choice is useful for designers.

[@sorenmine7765]

You drew choice as a two-faced beast.

[@HoluSoju]

Love all your vids, keep it up guys!!

[@Tyveris]

Anyone who played Bioshock Infinite remember the coin toss at the beginning? A lot of players I've interacted with remember making a choice of either heads or tails. I they recall expressing either elation or frustration when it came up their way or the other. Play through that sequence again and you'll realize something very apparent: You are NOT given an option. Booker says either heads or tails WITHOUT your prompting. From a game design perspective, this moment fascinates me. Not only does it do something which most games try desperately to do (give you the illusion of choice without allowing you any), it does so early on and in a game where player choice actually is a key feature (even if the results of one choice or the other are negligible). The decision NOT to give the choice to a player was made at some point in development, and I have to wonder why because it seems like a very simple addition to make. They must have known what they were doing because so many people express making that choice themselves.

[@DanielYellsAtPeople]

That's one of the reasons I think Infinite is the weakest in the series, almost all choices in Bioshock Infinite are illusions, the only ones that affect anything later, (that I can remember) are SPOILERS not throwing the ball at the couple, and choosing to kill Slate and those don't affect my ending, sure they may affect my journey, but that only matters in the moment, and ruins replayability in a game (whose combat I hated) and ultimately the ending makes me feel like no matter what, there aren't really any choice at all. Whereas in Bioshock 1 and 2 the choices you made had consequences both now and in the ending, and even when you reach the point of Bioshock 1 where Andrew Ryan tells you about how you are a slave, the choices that you chose to make with the little sister, had an effect. And my favorite thing about Bioshock 2, in which i had never killed a little sister but decided to kill Stanley Poole, and mercy kill Gil, and didn't expect anything to result from killing them, but then in subsequent playthroughs discovering that, Eleanor really does change her outlook/attitude towards life and revenge, based on your decisions really strengthened that game and made it possibly my favorite 360 game and definitely my favorite Bioshock game.

[@DanielYellsAtPeople]

And those ending really don't ever change all that much, maybe a different picture on screen, different lighting, and the Voice Actor reading it in a slightly different tone, and really the main story of Big Daddy saves his litte sister, stays the same, the only thing I affected was how I saved her, and how I treated the people responsible for seperating us, but that's enough. Sorry if I restated or missed anything in your original post, only part of long posts display when on mobile, which I am.

[@walasnauta]

Mass effect was a really good example of why the illusion is enough. All the dialog and many of the quests give you a "choice", but it also showed what happens when you do a bad job of hiding it. The game is great in the illusions but it just falls flat when it tries to convince you later that any of your choices mattered. Hence the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy.

[@TerminatorTX3]

I would say Mass Effect due to the promise and that illusion of choice pissed people off when coming to the ending and realizing carrying over a saved game has no impact on the story what so ever. I would say part of the backlash was because when people found out that choice was an illusion and you can achieve the same outcome without the previous saved game and to have the ending come down to three choices that pretty much had the same ending if not identical. If it were to be at any point to not have the illusion of choice it would have to be the ending of Mass Effect or in the last game towards the ending leading up.

[@SprayNpreyT]

I saw this vid two years ago, now i found it again :`)

[@justanotherdayinthelife9841]

A REALLY great way to make a player feel immersed in their choice is using the "highlighted" area or item, and then hiding a slew of options all around them. The choice ultimately is convergent but should diverge in large ways immediately. These separate paths should be as different as Dragon Age 1 with the origin stories. This enriches the world, allows for clever and siverse use of foreshadowing, lets the players find many things for their characters to invest into, and meets up with others (npc or pc) in a universal and now unified environment.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

I agree

[@YukariYakumo0]

I've actually seen a type of game that sometimes could use a little more of these. Certain visual novels for example show what can happen when you don't use the illusion of choice enough. Small insignificant choices that don't branch back can end up tripping up other more significant choices leading to a different ending entirely (possibly a very bad one) thus leading to more people needing to use strategy guides. For example, I once played a game where it gave you the choice of what your character was going to drink (and I'm not talking alcoholic drinks) and you had to know which one to chose or the next couple of choices changed leading to a chain reaction causing you to eventually not get the ending you wanted. And this is true with other games of different genres entirely.

[@BolinForever]

This is exactly what happens in the Fate/ franchise! It's really col to see what happens after one person changes one tiny thing

[@murdersinwonderland]

Yukari Yakumo The reason why it's even like that though is because the cost of that game might as well be the same as making a reeeeeally long picture book. The cost of making all these different storylines is NOTHING compared to multi million dollar game. One that costs millions before the choices can even be programmed. In fact most visual novels probably doesn't even reach 10,000 dollars to make and if it does that has to be a REALLY REALLY BIG visual novel, with sequels and voice acting...maybe some professional animation for cutscenes or intros and outros (unless you count something like Phoenix Wright as a visual novel due to it having those elements, but the cost is due to numerous other things that don't count towards normal visual novels). Visual novels are cheap, in fact you could make one right now for really cheap and even free if you can manage to do everything by yourself.

[@ObsessiveReaderLuv]

Best example of this I can think of is the two big ones in Fire Emblem: Awakening. Anyone who knows the game knows what I'm talking about. The consequences are the same, but when you get to that dialogue box asking you Yes or No you are absolutely shot full of emotion. I'm crying just thinking about it.

[@FriarTug]

When I see a glowing door, my first instinct is checking everywhere else but that door, because I don't want to miss anything.

[@HyperChara]

"Are there things trying to kill you? You're probably going the right way,"

[@pkthunder3]

Yes, I DID know there's a Extra Credits KZbin channel because THAT'S WHERE I'M WATCHING IT! XD

[@DozifJuggles]

You guys should do an episode with some gameplay to demonstrate these and other game design techniques kinda like the one where you showed the changes in kind of gameplay in Call of Duty, it'd be awesome to see secret design choices in games like half life, bioshock or mass effect.

[@android272]

5:13 more seasoned players, however, know that developers hide all the goods in the darkest corners. I use highlighted paths as a sign to explore what the developer is trying to hide. They obviously want me to follow this character up the staircase, well I am going down the bottom even if that means going down three or four flights.

[@AGrayPhantom]

I know exactly what you mean by guiding a player with textures or objectives. I've begun to look around more in my Team Fortress 2 maps. I was playing Badwater Basin recently and decided to look up for once, away from the cart. I noticed there was a massive satellite dish on top of the BLU base. I've begun to see the maps from a whole new perspective now that I take time to look around.

[@waffles6280]

1:15 Is that a nod to Fallout 4? It's very similar to a random encounter in it

[@KeithBurgun]

You were almost right about the illusion of choice. This is the correct way to put it: You notice that you hate it when you notice the illusion of choice. You hate it, but you just don't notice that you hate it, when you experience the illusion of choice. Even if you don't notice, your brain does.

[@jpchevron]

As someone else mentioned, I most games I go the obvious 'wrong' choose first so I can explore the area fully before moving on.

[@Paperfiasco]

This, in a sense, is what I loved so much about classic Final Fantasy and many older JRPGs. The game clearly intends to you do certain things in a certain order; but there was room to explore the world and get lost on a whim, whilst still being mostly on rails - something that was lost once the classic world map more or less vanished (the structure for 12 thankfully allowed for a return of this openness, for all its other faults). Heck, getting lost was a great way to gain levels purely out of exploration; find a place that has ridiculously powerful enemies by chance - a lot of trying to kill at least one enemy and surviving to gain 5 levels as a result. I'm glad FF15 seems to be on track towards going back in that direction.

[@FlintSparkedStudios]

Shepard. Wrex.

[@ChaosSolak]

Shepard.

[@DownWithPlankers101]

Wrex.

[@amaevingketchup]

Shepard.

[@nathanharper6411]

Grunt

[@jakobrosenqvist4691]

This episode made me realize something interesting. All my favorite games have nearly unlimited possibilities, and your choices are very much real and will greatly impact how the game plays out. Age Of Empires Besige Hearthstone Cities: Skylines

[@AlexanderFluff]

The best example of Illusion of Choice I can think of is Bioshock Infinite. That game is so linear, it makes rulers look like loopy straws. But so few people even noticed it because of those methods you mentioned.

[@RyuTora2808]

There is a point in Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete where you must deal with an ally who betrayed you to the enemy (if you played the game, then you know who I mean). At that point, you get a choice to either forgive them because you're friends or tell them you can't forgive them for what they've done. The dialogue is different for each response, and it doesn't really affect the rest of the game's story at all...but because of how attached the game actually gets you to the cast, the choice of whether to forgive the traitor or not *feels* meaningful. I think that that's a good example of The Illusion of Choice right there.

[@zawsrdtygbhjimokpl6998]

so, do you love pokemon? me: no sorry, I didn't quite catch that. Can you repeat yourself? me: NO sorry, you will never progress unless you agree and in this world there's no choice. Say yes or be forever trapped in limbo me: fine... yes please try to fill in the pokedex me: NO ha ha, incorrect!

[@taiiat0]

as always, common topics that come up in the Game Industry and then getting us to think about them in a different way.

[@oktanken]

On another note about the illusion of choice, or perhaps even a game with an incredible amount of choices, would be the new "The Stanley Parable". I think you guys could make a great episode about it since it is a game with such a numerous amount of different endings and results.

[@andhikasoehalim3170]

I know of 1 game that gives choice in how to play but is still beads on a string that you probably don’t know about and that is Alpha Protocol. It even has timed limit dialogue. so check it out if you want to, you will not be disapointed.

[@robertridley9279]

I'm currently playing Growlanser 2, and it wasn't until after I already started playing that I went online and saw that choices I made were affecting how the story progresses and what ending I will get to see when I finish it. When I played Suikoden 5, I had the walkthrough right next to me so that I could recruit all the characters since dialogue choices determined if they would join for most of them, and for other ones, you would never to be able to guess what would make them join, like for one, the only way he would join was if one of your characters you had with you when you met him was old.

[@El-Burrito]

The Raphael Parable is a game where you can do - LITERALLY - ANYTHING. The trailers for the Stanley Parable hint a great amount about the illusion of choice

[@oktanken]

It basicly means the player having the power to make changes, the 'fire' being whatever power you want to imagine.