The Image on the Shroud | Stars, Cells, and God

[@hbarwickjr]

I believe this is the image of Christ given to us by God for the doubting Thomas's of today. Amazing how much more grace God has given towards the salvation of mankind for the repentance of sin and the receiving of Jesus Chtist as personal saviour. Whosoever believes and calls on His name shall be saved. Tis the gift of God.

[@maryblushes7189]

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidenceof things unseen..." I believe and remind you of how blessed believers are who believe without seeing, per Jesus Himself.

[@floydiandreamscapes5145]

​@Maryblushes does that mean because I can't help my mind continues to have nagging doubt that I'm a second class citizen in Jesus eyes? He doesn't like me as much as He does someone who doesn't deal with doubt?😢😢

[@ClementGreen]

Why not give us something more up to date then, rather than an ancient shroud?

[@BenPat88]

@@floydiandreamscapes5145I would say it’s evidence you aren’t a Christian at all.

[@gregoryforgach4845]

When the disciple Thomas doubted Christ was risen, I wonder why the other disciples didnt just show the shroud to him?

[@dud3man6969]

I had become a deist a couple of years ago, and the shroud brought me back. Though deism does acknowledge the incomprehensible power and intelligence of our creator, it did leave me feeling empty. So, I am thankful for the shroud.

[@edwardwalsh5477]

God has been very gracious to us; suffering at the hands of Jews and Romans but not just them. Jesus asked his disciples "why do you call me lord, lord but do not do what I say? Reading in the Acts and St. Paul's letters shows such dismissal of the authority of and love for the Lord Jesus. I must confess that even yesterday, I failed Him while at the computer and am much ashamed for it. But I don't need to be saved again or give penance because the life that He gives is eternal and, since I can contribute nothing to my righteousness, He has paid it all; All to Him I owe.

[@Gruuvin1]

I'm agreeing more with a deist point of view lately. What is it about the shroud that runs against deism?

[@dud3man6969]

@@Gruuvin1 we couldn't replicate it today. It's a 3d photo negative image of His entire body. They were able to make a detailed 3d model of His body.

[@Stupidityindex]

@@edwardwalsh5477 Christians pass by with audacious boasting, having zero quality-control: Convinced we are all gods, children of the highest god. Theologians grant doctorates to each other based on nothing whatsoever. Deities apparently delegate Their authority & recordkeeping. We marvel at their ultimate conceit, We avoid them like the old woman with too many cats. We know a tree by the fruit, the man by his works, We thank god, secular law and order finally ended the witch-killing & inquisitions.

[@Gruuvin1]

@@20july1944 I don't believe deism claims that Jesus wasn't resurrected, so the shroud doesn't change the deist view.

[@4E-P]

Just imagine the person who saved the shroud from the fire. Wow what an honor

[@Bmwguy2011]

It’s prominently featured in Monty Python’s Holy Grail.

[@kathleenhendrix6280]

Yes indeed!

[@patriciasmith7074]

I believe that even that long ago somebody deliberately tried to set fire to the church where the shroud was in an attempt to destroy it. There seems to always be somebody who wants to stop Jesus. They knew that the Shroud was extremely important, a message from Jesus Christ to prove and inform future people that yes He existed and yes He was crucified and died on the cross and yes He Resurrected by a miraculous unexplainable supernatural way to prove to mankind that He was the Son of God because He did what no human could ever do.

[@patriciasmith7074]

@@Bmwguy2011 What a stupid and disrespectful thing to say. It’s not funny.

[@edwardwalsh5477]

@@patriciasmith7074 reveals the anti-Christian values of the Monty Python team.

[@danatowne5498]

This was really fascinating - thank you so much! The idea that "someone" died the death of a slave and then was wrapped in an extremely expense cloth, only to have that cloth become no longer useful for that purpose before 'corruption" (understanding that decomposition starts immediately) set in, is really remarkable in itself. No wonder people who begin to study this find their lives changed in the doing. God bless!

[@perryandy2]

When I saw my first shroud video a year-and-a-half ago and it proved to me that there was Jesus Christ died on the cross and was resurrected. The moment I realized, my exact words were...I can finally believe.

[@Watchmandaleivester]

Praise God for his marvelous works. I have been a receipiant of many miracles and as studied more in the Bible plus the Holy Ghost I can testify that Jesus is alive and I thank God for you and your family and maranatha

[@hpinchen9451]

Jesus pointed out that blessed are those who have not seenv)him) yet believe

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Wow, that's vapid.

[@franciscorawier1551]

​​@@hpinchen9451Pergunto para você, se só bastava não ver para crer em jesus, por que ele apareceu aos apóstolos? Afinal os apóstolos só creram na ressurreição porque viram a Cristo, o apóstolo Paulo é um exemplo disso ele precisou ver a Cristo para deixar de perseguir a Igreja crer nele e se tornar de fato um cristão. o Sudário é muito importante na época em que vivemos afinal ele é um fato que pode destroçar muitos argumentos de ateus.

[@nbenefiel]

We know the Romans crucified Jesus for sedition during Passover. The problem with the Resurrection is that the Romans rarely allowed the burial of the crucified. They removed them from the crosses and threw the bodies into ditches to be consumed by wild animals. This was part of the horror of crucifixion.. Of the thousands of Jews crucified in the first century, we have found 1 body of a crucified man and he seems to have come from a high stats family. Jesus’ family had no such influence and it is unlikely Joseph of Arimatheia did either.

[@LinsonJoseph]

Wow! This is awesome in detail. Even if people doubt the shroud's authenticity, they will be impressed by the careful analysis Christians do as is elaborated here. I am sure you guys are leading many to their Creator. 🎉

[@christophercoughlin9493]

Hope so, Linson, but if anybody leads anyone to Christ it's really the Holy Spirit, not us, you know?

[@user-tp3hg4se1s]

In the early 70's the shroud was in Germany and they cleaned the shroud for any evidence, nobody cares about that on these shows to tells us ?

[@russelllowry1061]

My belief is the image on the shroud is real. But non believers are not going to believe by definition. Regardless of the age of it, scientist have never been able to explain, or duplicate the image.

[@Stupidityindex]

What makes Christians flounder is a complete lack of quality-control. Anyone can cop a deity out of fiction, but no one, beyond the inquisitor's torture, wants leaders putting us on a path with one foot in fantasylands.

[@rickytavilla4259]

It’s definitely real

[@swarnamohanty3121]

2000 years old is fundamental. Jesus or other Godly person no body knows. Jesus was not the only godly person, India has hundreds of Godly persons.

[@rickytavilla4259]

@@swarnamohanty3121 What do you believe is good and Godly? We all believe our own lies and think we are good. Jesus was raised from the dead which separates Him from all others.Jesus said “for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” I myself am not only a believer but I actually know I have been outside my physical body and in the presence of The Holy Spirit

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Which scientists from which scientific field do you believe would be interested in trying to recreate this obvious fraud?

[@thisisforgod868]

Anyone who can explain how the image got there without a miracle will be more intelligent than Einstein.

[@hoovertrading]

It is written in the Urantia Book that celestial beings received permission to accelerate time in order not to have to observe the decaying of the earthly remains of our Creator. This would explain the 'flash' that could cause the image on the cloth (that itself is so compelling)

[@maylingng4107]

Very easy. It is a fraud manufactured by the Christian Church between 1260 ad 1390 C.E.

[@BenPat88]

@@hoovertradinglol whut

[@terryulmer969]

@thomas hoover Christianity and English keeps mistranslating so much, and then they totally misunderstand what they mistranslated and corrupted. The One True Creator G_d specifically said in no uncertain terms that G_d is Not a man, and G_d never dies! Bamidbar (Numbers) 23 16The Lord chanced upon Balaam and placed something into his mouth. He said, "Return to Balak and so you shall speak." טזוַיִּקָּ֤ר יְהֹוָה֙ אֶל־בִּלְעָ֔ם וַיָּ֥שֶׂם דָּבָ֖ר בְּפִ֑יו וַיֹּ֛אמֶר שׁ֥וּב אֶל־בָּלָ֖ק וְכֹ֥ה תְדַבֵּֽר: 17When he came to him, he was standing next to his burnt offering, and the Moabite dignitaries were with him, and Balak said to him, "What did the Lord speak?" יזוַיָּבֹ֣א אֵלָ֗יו וְהִנּ֤וֹ נִצָּב֙ עַל־עֹ֣לָת֔וֹ וְשָׂרֵ֥י מוֹאָ֖ב אִתּ֑וֹ וַיֹּ֤אמֶר לוֹ֙ בָּלָ֔ק מַה־דִּבֶּ֖ר יְהֹוָֽה: 18He took up his parable and said, "Arise, Balak, and hear; listen closely to me, son of Zippor. יחוַיִּשָּׂ֥א מְשָׁל֖וֹ וַיֹּאמַ֑ר ק֤וּם בָּלָק֙ וּֽשֲׁמָ֔ע הַֽאֲזִ֥ינָה עָדַ֖י בְּנ֥וֹ צִפֹּֽר: 19God is not a man that He should lie, nor is He a mortal that He should relent. Would He say and not do, speak and not fulfill? יטלֹ֣א אִ֥ישׁ אֵל֙ וִֽיכַזֵּ֔ב וּבֶן־אָדָ֖ם וְיִתְנֶחָ֑ם הַה֤וּא אָמַר֙ וְלֹ֣א יַֽעֲשֶׂ֔ה וְדִבֶּ֖ר וְלֹ֥א יְקִימֶֽנָּה:

[@dougreformed8956]

​@@terryulmer969 English is a perfect language and the kjv is a perfect bible

[@juliansummers7855]

An interesting and excellent overview of the shroud's physical and chemical properties and how they relate to it's authenticity. One correction of the Dr however -- the linen was not part of Joseph of Arimathea's family burial preparations. Mark 15:46 states: "After he bought some fine linen, he took Him down and wrapped Him in the linen..." So the linen was bought that same day - likely from one of the Jewish traders in Jerusalem for passover.

[@carmenwheatley5376]

This analysis does not explain the 3D qualities of the shroud image; nor the image of the Pontius Pilate coins over the eyes; nor indeed the other leather and non human exudate images also on the shroud; nor the moving hands, with just the bones imprinted in x-ray fashion; nor the finding that there was no evidence of decomposition on the shroud; nor the fact that though archaeologists have found other shrouds no such image exists on any one of those. Finally, if the image had been produced by exudate, in the Maillard reaction, it would be uneven, blurry and generally imperfect because the shroud would have been wrapped around the body. But we have images of the back and front of the body that are perfect, perfectly projected, without distortion. Hard not to conclude that something much more mysterious than a natural reaction happened here.

[@tristanuaceithearnaigh7660]

The Maillard hypothesis should be tested for and recreated to prove it's validity. Incidently, in mentioning the cost and emphasis on the value of Linen in the 1st century it reminded me of the value of Linen in Ireland circa 15-16th centuries where the Irish wore Linen shirts pleated around the waist and dyed with saffron (precurser to the modern kilt). The more linen pleated around you, the more show of wealth and status you were considered. This made the English king at the Time (Henry vIII) introduce laws to declare it illegal for the Irish to wear more than 9 yards of linen, thus preventing them from expressing any form of wealth going beyond their station as a colonised and subjugated people. I mention this becaue it drives home the emphasis and value that linen had in our societies and points to the reason why the descriptions in the New testament include the details about Joseph of Arimathea being a wealthy man who provided the Linen shroud for Yeshua, without which, we would not have the shroud to observe and enjoy it's miraculous existence which has and still continues to dumbfound modern science today.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

Who in modern science is dumbfounded? And if you don't know how the shroud was made how can you say that it's "miraculous"? You're just tying some nonsense about Henry VIII to Joseph of Arimathea to expensive linen cloth. What was the price of linen cloth in Jerusalem compared to the price in the time of Henry VIII? For me those are not jumps of logic, they're not connected in any way.

[@tristanuaceithearnaigh7660]

@@johnmichaelson9173 "Who in modern science is dumbfounded"? Oh I dunno, only the 72 most qualified scientists in their fields who have been studying the most examined artifact in modern times for the last 50 years. If the price of linen in medieval times was expensive with the development of extensive farming at that time of greener fields in a lusher enviroment, one could easily imagine the cost in comparison in a desert enviroment 1500 years earlier in Jerusalem. If you can't make that connection, well, I won't bother explaining it to you, I don't have enough crayons.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

@@tristanuaceithearnaigh7660 More bluster & the throwing of numbers. Apparently you've taken a class on farming & that explains why you have crayons. I imagine the green one has taken a bit of a pounding. In was under the impression that Jerusalem was under the control of the Romans, the preeminent trading nation on the planet & as the Jews used linen in their funereal practices, you'd imagine they'd be available to the populace & at competitive prices. Anyway you to back to colouring in farmland in 15th century Eire. I bet these long winter evenings just fly by in your house.

[@markwilburn546]

I believe that a phase shift is how the image was created. It caused a time dilation phenomenon on the superficial layers of the linen fibers which can also explain the dehydration and oxidation observed. If time had been accelerated at the surface of the linen, then it would oxidize more quickly causing dehydration and this would create the discoloration of the superficial layers of the linen fiber because it will have aged more so than the outer layers farther from the body. It has already been noted by another researcher that the coloration wasn't a thermochemical phenomenon. The coloration is a natural aging process of the linen fibers; therefore, as Jesus' body phase shifted out of our spacetime continuum it caused a time dilation due to the displacement of His physical body from our spacetime dimensions occurring at near the speed of light. Furthermore, it can be mathematically calculated using Hawking’s Black Hole radiation solutions to Einstein's field equations at the event horizon. In my mind’s eye, I can see Jesus' body moving through the shroud like an expanding sphere with the stretching acceleration effect that occurs at the event horizon of a Black Hole. This also explains why we see the hands moving in the 3D image. This is just my humble opinion based upon my knowledge and understanding of General Relativity and the equations that model Hawking radiation.

[@theodorematuga7978]

Interesting! Have you shared your hypothesis with the other scientists who investigated the Shroud ?

[@markwilburn546]

@@theodorematuga7978 yes sir I have but I didn’t get a response. I have however had more of an interest from theologians due to the biblical support of my hypothesis. I have a draft of a paper that I’m writing concerning the Lord’s crucifixion date that has received some positive feedback. I wrote an email to a colleague containing the following abstract: You're absolutely correct with your discernment concerning the 70th week. Sir Robert Anderson didn't have access to the scholarly resources that we have available today. However, having said that, I will admit that I'm impressed that he was able to correctly identify the first part of the prophecy with the seven weeks starting at the decree of Artexerxes and ending with the completion of the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem. There is considerable disagreement among exegetes as to which of the several Achaemenid decrees mentioned in Scripture corresponds to the one referred to in Daniel 9:25. Therefore, in my paper I review what Scripture teaches about the decree of Cyrus; then I present evidence that the counting of the “sevens” of Daniel 9:25 should be understood as sabbatical year cycles; and finally, I evaluate what pattern of sabbatical year cycles best conforms to the historical and biblical evidence. In doing this I hope to clearly identify the terminus a quo-the starting point-from which the clock counting of the time until the coming of “an anointed one” (the literal rendering of the Hebrew of Daniel 9:25) began ticking. (Spoiler alert) Research points to Ezra leaving for Jerusalem in the spring of 457 BC and arriving 5 months later just days before the first of Tishri and the beginning of the new Jewish year of 456 BC. I propose in my paper that Ezra started counting a new sabbatical cycle in 456 BC, and I present the work of two scholars that have studied the history of the Jewish sabbatical and jubilee cycles, Zuckerman and Wacholder as evidence to support my starting point. Historical and archeological evidence indicates that the rebuilding of Jerusalem (not just the Temple) was completed in 409 BC which is the first jubilee and seven sabbatical cycles after Ezra arrived in Jerusalem. Next, I show that the 62 sabbatical cycles ended on the first of Tishri in 27 AD. I didn't have to perform any magical math, nor did I have to make any conversions between lunar and solar calendars. I simply used the time counting method established by God. I summarize my research by adding 3 and a ½ years to 1 Tishri 27 AD and I land on 14 Nisan 31 AD as the date of the Lord's crucifixion. I’m stuck with my conclusion because I have a conflict with secular Astronomical data from NASA and traditional Christian doctrine concerning the day of the week that the Lord was crucified on. I’ve been spiraling through several different rabbit holes which have yielded two possible dates for the crucifixion (Wednesday, April 25, 31 AD based on Astronomical data) or (Friday, April 7, 30 AD based on traditional Christian doctrine). I’m leaning more toward the former instead of the latter because of Matthew 12:40. “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”, and because it fits your prediction to the exact day that the Lord was crucified, thus indicating that the future reign of the anti-Christ will be exactly 3 and a ½ years which will complete Daniel’s 70th week.

[@dianam4708]

I think that, like the spices for his burial, the cloth was purchased the same day--probably when they put JESUS on the cross, and they realized he was actually going to die. I think it was forethought with the Sabbath in mind and the closing of stores that made them run and purchase what they would need, not necessarily pre-planning on Joseph's part for himself. This was an awesome episode. Thank you.

[@juliansummers7855]

You are correct - though it was purchased hurriedly after he died. Mark 15:46 states: "After he bought some fine linen, he took Him down and wrapped Him in the linen...". Nicodemus purchased the spices for his burial (John 19:39).

[@davidmusick1673]

I believe by faith that this is Divine authentication of Christ Jesus suffering. His resurrection is without dispute for His Word is eternally efficacious.

[@TommyMarcinek]

On the Maillard reaction, he's forgetting to mention that even Rodgers himself said that there is a problem with the hair being imaged by this method. In other words, this method CANNOT account for the hair images on the cloth! Moreover, "if" the Millard reaction process was the impetus of the image, it would cause the image to disappear in high heat, such as the fire in 1532, where molten silver (900 degrees Celsius!!!) damaged the corner/s. The high heat in the silver box where the Shroud was stored would not only destroy the image but the cloth as well! Frankly, it is a miracle in and of itself that the Shroud survived not only THAT fire, but other damages and water, endless handling over the centuries, exposure to sun during exhibitions, etc. Why don't these "scientists" come out and say that the Shroud is quite a "miraculous" phenomenon and stop beating around the bush, as it were! Sheeeshhh!

[@praiagrande1579]

Blessed be Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior 🙏✨❤️ amen

[@TheWeslej]

Would the Maillard hypothesis also explain the hair image? Does hair also produce those exudants? (Exudant is my new favorite word, btw.)

[@sondra4789]

Great question!

[@winstedwildmanresearch]

EXACTLY! Also, the image has 3 dimensional information, as discovered by Nasa's VP 8 image analyzer. Some amino acid superficial degradation due to a coating of soapstone on the shroud, would give us an undetailed, vague image at best. Ray Rogers was fair minded with the shroud, but he was also an atheist and very skeptical. This Doctor just repeats everything Ray Rogers hypothesized.

[@TheRockofGod21]

Yeah it seems he is mostly rejecting the radiation hypothesis based on X-rays. But his hypothesis fails in other respects. Didn't he explain that it couldn't be something like a contact transferal since the image isn't distorted? wouldn't the maillard reaction, as he explained it, produce a similar distortion? apart from the issue of the image of the hair?

[@winniecash1654]

I've heard Jeff give his opinion on the shroud before. I think this conversation brought him one step closer to believing it is the actual burial cloth.

[@Stupidityindex]

What makes Christians flounder is a complete lack of quality-control. Anyone can cop a deity out of fiction, but no one, beyond the inquisitor's torture, wants leaders putting us on a path with one foot in fantasylands.

[@edwardparkhurst9804]

No it's not and one day you will think you were wrong.

[@winniecash1654]

@@edwardparkhurst9804 why is that?

[@edwardparkhurst9804]

@@winniecash1654 the head wrapping was nicely folded and separate from the main warping the sharod is but one piece

[@Stupidityindex]

@@edwardparkhurst9804 The problem Christians have, like all believers have, is lack of quality-control. The title Christian is a farce as much as is a Deity, lacking ability to get Its existence acknowledged by everyone.

[@sandralewis328]

There is no discussion of how this chemical reaction could create the sharp details and 3D information. It seems that gases diffusing would make a blurry image and 3D information of body to cloth distance would not have been deposited through that mechanism. Perhaps this will be discussed in another episode, if not it seems to be an extreme oversight of a significant quality of the shroud image.

[@Drakemiser]

There have been on other lectures, like intense energy phasing through the clothe. It's a supernatural explanation and cannot be repeated, but to get all the detail, the body would've had to phase through the cloth.

[@markwilburn546]

@@Drakemiser I believe that a phase shift is exactly how the image was created. It caused a time dilation phenomenon on the superficial layers of the linen fibers. It has already been noted by another researcher that the coloration wasn't a thermochemical phenomenon. The coloration is a natural aging process of the linen fibers; therefore, as Jesus' body phase shifted out of our spacetime continuum it caused a time dilation due to the displacement of His physical body from our spacetime dimensions occurring at near the speed of light. Furthermore, it can be mathematically calculated using Hawking’s Black Hole radiation solutions to Einstein's field equations at the event horizon. In my mind’s eye, I can see Jesus' body moving through the shroud like an expanding sphere with the stretching acceleration effect that occurs at the event horizon of a black hole. This also explains why we see the hands moving in the 3D image. This is just my humble opinion based upon my knowledge and understanding of General Relativity and the equations that model Hawking radiation.

[@sondra4789]

If it was a chemical process that caused it, I gather that it was kind of like a miasma (vapor) which would actually make a gradient image like you see. The closer the cloth was to the source the darker the image (nose) and the further (eg. neck) the lighter.

[@Drakemiser]

@@sondra4789 But again, supernatural.

[@sandralewis328]

@@sondra4789 Right, that is what is being suggested, however, gases tend to diffuse toward a lower concentration and reach equilibrium. gases spread into the lower gradient and that gradient should then be diminished, not preserved. This physical behavior of molecular motion would not explain the 3D information encoded in the linen which is being read by the VP-8 analyzer. It also seems that a gas would move deeper into the weave of the linen, exposing more of the threads deeper in the weave than analysis shows. I have no tests to support this, it is just based on my attempt to imagine the behavior of the gas molecules.

[@janedoe8050]

Glory to God. Halleluyah.

[@chrisalan11rus]

Would a decomposing body have left other exude? How would the Maillard reaction explain the teeth visible and the image on parts of the cloth that weren’t touching the shroud?

[@mikewalsh1402]

Excellent point!

[@sandythomas8911]

By radiation.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

The body wasn't there long enough to see decay. And that is also a biblical prophecy, Psalm 15: 10 "For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption

[@mikewalsh1402]

@@christophercoughlin9493 Rigor mortis had set in, but the Maillard reaction doesn’t fit

[@christophercoughlin9493]

@@mikewalsh1402 The Maillard reaction doesn't take photographs

[@paulsimmonds2030]

Sorry, something doesn’t fit.. If this image was caused by a decaying body and allowing for the fact that burial shrouds were common in Jewish burial ceremony, why is this shroud the only shroud with an image.. Second. The image shows subsurface images of bones, like an x-ray image.. Yet you say that no high energies were used in the formation of the image. It seems the whole premise of this video was to date the shroud, not to say a miracle has taken place. Therefore, since the Roman use of scourging and crucifixion were very common, the Turin shroud could literally have been any poor soul from the time period.. I am a Christian and do believe the shroud to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. The fact that bones can be seen is an indication of high energies being used. Plus, the image shows the body was moving at the time the image was being made..

[@RandallChase1]

The reason this is the only one that shows that image would be consistent with what we see in other situations that surround miracles like Jesus body being transformed could produce the energy that impacted the fabric. That is why you don’t see this image with other people who didn’t have a resurrection miracle take place.

[@CytherX]

Wouldn't them taking Jesus down from the cross and picking him up to put him in the tomb have something to do with the image moving.

[@davidkahn3569]

I believe he is saying that because the bosy was removed from the shroud before it started decaying, it is unlike other burial shrouds. But if this effect cannot be reproduced by experiment it should be rejected. He didn't mention whether anyone has tried to reproduce the effect.

[@missyabisaab7150]

If as you say this could be any crucified man,it has already been established that the crown or cap of thorns was only used for Jesus.That very painful torture was only devised for Jesus,and that is clearly shown on the shroud.

[@tracywarren7332]

​@CytherX the body would not yet be in the shroud when the body was taking from the cross. So no, taking the body off the cross would not account for movement.

[@fyrerayne8882]

Can a Maillard reaction really achieve such a detailed image from head to foot? Can it really encode three dimensional information within the image? Can a Maillard reaction really happen at room temperature? Below room temperature in a pitch black tomb? Hmmmm High energy source for the image seems more likely, especially considering the fact that the image appears to have been put onto the cloth in a vertically collimated direction. And if this is just a Maillard reaction then why don’t we have hundreds of other examples of clothes throughout history with this same phenomena?

[@KingJehovah]

This video and interview with Dr. Bergeron were awesome and Dr. Bergeron is awesome. However, Dr. Bergeron's statements at 33:30 to 37:00 regarding the Maillard reaction are erroneous and inapplicable because they do NOT account for the image formation of the flowers and coins over the eyes that appear in the Shroud. The Maillard reaction could not have caused the images of the flowers and coins because in those areas the Shroud was not in contact with chemicals needed to cause the Maillard reaction. Moreover, the Maillard reaction does not account for the three dimensional properties of the image in the Shroud. Thus, Dr. Bergeron's assertions (that the Maillard reaction is a plausible explanation for the image formation process) are erroneous.

[@roy3771]

Not convinced about the Maillard reaction hypothesis. Perhaps this could occur for parts of the cloth in contact with the body, but where the cloth was not in contact with the body how could you get such a well defined image? Chemical reactions could not possibly produce a well defined, accurate image. Also consider that the cloth must also have been in contact with the sides of the body. Why do we not see images of the sides of the legs, arms head etc? The Maillard reaction hypothesis has been discussed many times before and is generally believed to be incorrect by many researchers

[@Stupidityindex]

What makes Christians flounder is a complete lack of quality-control. Anyone can cop a deity out of fiction, but no one, beyond the inquisitor's torture, wants leaders putting us on a path with one foot in fantasylands.

[@adelkamal6464]

A miraculous incident, and it is my obligation to say it and others have the right to know,I am from Qatar, and I saw the image of the Jesus Christ on the ceiling of my room, where He manifested April 2016 His face is a little long, white and beautiful, light beard, head hair lies on top shoulders. The eyes are sharp, and beautiful features resemble the people of the Middle East, The picture was very super clear, which astonished and surprised me. At first I was asleep and suddenly woke up to bear witness to the situation,I thought there is some likeness in the very slight of my friend , but a quick inspiration came to me. He is Jesus , all of this took a few seconds was enough, I don't know how the disappearance happened after the vision. It happened once hence what in my real scene i only with no hesitation to say this the Christ looks other than this i do not know.. Translate Arabic to English using Google,

[@alicepavey974]

I thought it had been found that there are multiple images on the Shroud, showing movement? How does that fit with this explanation for the pigmentation?

[@christophercoughlin9493]

This is a photograph formed with a light so intense we are unable to reproduce it today.

[@dianam4708]

There's a lot of things they did back then that we have no clue on how to reproduce today. The pyramids come to mind right off the bet.

[@Mutasis_Mutandis]

Excellent observation. 👍

[@seamusweber8298]

Exactly Christopher. The power generated needed to transmit the image of the Corpse on to the shroud, is mind boggling. The other crucial point is that even if that power could be generated, its impossible that that power could impact the fabric without destroying not only the fabric but the immediate vicinity where the power generated impacted. In short it is inexplicable how such power could be contained to only impact the fabric, and not impact anything else in the immediate vicinity of the fabric

[@SDsc0rch]

imagine a flash - an instant of time - a pulse

[@CGH250]

Indeed! A supernatural burst of spiritual energy that moved itself through the cloth! 🙏❤️✝️

[@DFMoray]

“The Man” It’s God incarnate.

[@RandallChase1]

Yes, it think they are just using the term “the man” as a reference not a religious statement.

[@DonOlson-pu1ft]

The cloth characteristics , at 15:02 says " yellow then (sepia) color on top 2-3 superficial fibers " and the audio comment says " yellow or more specifically sepia " . Sepia is a reddish-brown coloring a lot closer to blood stain coloring then yellow . I don't understand the connection of yellow and sepia made here . Any insight ?

[@lionelbradley4394]

Isaiah 52:14 KJV - As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

[@srwaldner]

The issue is not whether shroud of Turin is true, but whether Jesus is true. Our focus and faith is not in relics but in a person.

[@actorjay]

We don't need the shroud to believe in the resurrected Christ. For that we have the scriptures. Solo scriptura. Amen.

[@toosiyabrandt8676]

Hi Jesus being the Messiah who rose 3 days after His death IS the issue! HE OBVIOUSLY THOUGHT THIS LIGHT RADIATION IMAGE ON HIS SHROUD WAS THE WAY TO PROVE IT CONCLUSIVELY! Don’t forget HE ALWAYS PROVED WHO HE WAS DURING ALL OF HIS MINISTRY! Plus the Shroud Image DISPROVES EVOLUTION AND THE BIG BANG TO BE FRAUDULENT CLAIMS! Shalom to us only in Christ Yeshua returning soon to reign over the world from Jerusalem forever.

[@actorjay]

@@toosiyabrandt8676 Yeah, I hear you. But in his wisdom, Jesus gave us the holy Scriptures, through which we are to know him. Maybe he left the shroud for the doubting Thomases. I agree it's helpful as a confirmation of the historical event, but it isn't necessary. Besides, I'd rather envision the glorious resurrection clothes of Christ, than continue dwelling on the old grave clothes he left behind in the tomb. "He is not here; for he has risen, as he said." Amen.

[@user-tp3hg4se1s]

His glory is real Jesus is returning on this earth in his full glory

[@RandallChase1]

@@actorjay I understand what you are saying, this is simply an additional item that can help confirm someone’s faith. But it just happens to still be in existence.

[@rickytavilla4259]

What this guy doesn’t talk about is how it was imprinted by light we cannot yet produce. And no everybody it wasn’t done by Leonardo da Vinci painting. The body imprinted on shroud on His way through it by light

[@johnmichaelson9173]

Maybe he doesn't talk about that because it's ridiculous? "Imprinted by light we cannot yet produce" Come on?

[@rickytavilla4259]

@@johnmichaelson9173 yes they can not recreate it and that’s how its been debunked of forgery. Back in the 80s they tried to say it was painted in medieval times. It’s amazing Christ left us a perfect imprinted picture of the resurrection

[@dougj3528]

Isn't the Malliard Reaction testable today (ie to see if it can be re-produced)?

[@christophercoughlin9493]

The blood looks red because a tortured person produces bilirubin and this causes blood to maintain its red appearance over time. Check with the shroud photographer. David Berkowitz, I think?

[@michaelalten9524]

I think it’s Barry Schwortz.

[@YouTw1tFace]

David Berkowitz is a serial killer lol.

[@Drakemiser]

I left the same comment. And it wasn't Barry Schwartz, although he might have mentioned it. I heard it from Dr. Wayne Philips who gave an excellent lecture on the shroud.

[@christophercoughlin9493]

Barrie Schwartz, of course. David Berkowitz is a mathematician!

[@Drakemiser]

@@christophercoughlin9493 David Berkowitz is the Son of Sam. What in the %#%$ you talking bout?

[@simtime7591]

you can go through all the different evidence that this is likely to be real, but something very obvious does it for me. They say this was created by an artist, some name da Vinci, but anyway, forget all that. all you need to do, is look at every religious artist depiction throughout history of Jesus, even the religious statues we have in churches today, and what is the one thing they have in common. They have the nails going through the palms of the hands, even the catholic church has this thing called the stigmata, which is basically a supernatural event where people get holes in thier palms, which is obviously rubbish. Its only a fairly recent scientific discovery that has seen that you cant crucify through the palms, it wont hold, you can only crucify through the wrist, and this shroud is the only thing that shows Jesus being crucified in the right place. If this shroud wasnt real, and some "clever 3d, photographic negative creation from the 13th hundreds" (i mean come on, that sentence in itself is redicolous to even say) then the artist wouldnt have shown the nails in the wrists, they would have gone through the palms..

[@jvcoulter]

I have always cautioned my fellow Christians not to make too much of shroud arguments, as consistent as they are with information we get from the gospels. The conclusion of a sudden burst of radiation as Jesus was resurrected as a "smoking gun" seems to be especially attractive to them, but is precluded by these findings, so where are they left? With an artifact that is supportive, rather than conclusive, of the claims of the apostles. I remind them that it's much better to use use manuscript, archeological, prophetic, and statistical evidence, i.e., the MAPS approach, and accept the burden of laborious and careful study of both the scriptures and the disciplines of archeology, history, sociology, etc. There's no smoking gun or shroud trump card to be had, but rather an incredible cumulative case can be built for the the truth of Christianity through these methods. Build your house on solid rock, not shifting sand.

[@alejandromagnobarrasa9244]

The rock is Christ bro. An adulterous and wicked generation seeks for signs and wonders. The greatest evidence for our belief is not the ressurection that happened 2000 years ago. The proof that He resurrected is His involvement in Our lives. Not this maps nonsense or the scriptures. The scriptures only testify that we are the family of God.

[@honeydew4576]

@@alejandromagnobarrasa9244 What is MAPS? That's a new phrase for me.

[@alejandromagnobarrasa9244]

Read original comment Its some weird nonsense

[@honeydew4576]

what is MAPS?

[@honeydew4576]

@@alejandromagnobarrasa9244 I did read the original comment, that's why I'm asking what it is.

[@patriciaking410]

Gracias. Shalom aleijem

[@azzurra9874]

I appreciate this explanation of the Holy Shroud of Turin however, I still believe that the Imagine was caused by a burst of energy. Thank you for presentation

[@statone2647]

All that energy sure did have a lot of blood and scurge marks on the front and back of the body.

[@slavkopetrov1164]

Greetings in Jesus name from Dalmatian island in Croatia.Yes Shroud is authentic. I hope and pray that the Lord will allow me to go to Torino to see the Shroud . It is not far from here, just over Adriatic sea.

[@64stevebrown]

Has this Maillard reaction theory been tested and shown to produce an identical image on a linen cloth?

[@Drakemiser]

No body has been able to replicate it thatI've heard. An Italian professor claimed to have done it with red ochre paint after being explicitly told there was no ochre paint on it. He got what he wanted. A lot of secular scientists believed him and didn't bother to check. I had this argument online where the guy said that it was done with ochre despite the team in the 70's explicitly stating there was no paint. He argued that all th paint had worn off but left a stain. I said well, then you're discovered red ochre anti matter and there's a Nobel waiting for you. It's amazing what some people will believe to NOT believe in Christ.But there you go.

[@chillil321]

This is the first time I have heard something about a crust and sugar content on the linen reacting with body gas. All other things I have read and watched said the staining was embedded in the very top layers of the fibrils themselves and did not wash away with water. I have also seen where it is said that the 2 hypothesis about body gases causing this are pretty much ruled out.

[@TheRockofGod21]

Right?! He made a comment about "a natural explanation being far superior to a supernatural explanation" which sort of rubbed me the wrong way, seeing as a natural explanation is only superior to individuals who already presuppose that nothing supernatural ever occurs.

[@cryptosurfer2369]

He made some contradicting comments I don’t think this guy has a clue he think there’s only 1 image on one side lol

[@GregoryHolden-k5c]

​@@TheRockofGod21Right. It's actual a little irksome when people summarily dismiss the supernatural.

[@TruthWillSetYouFree832]

@@TheRockofGod21 To be able to show a burial cloth that would have only been on the body 36-72 hours to produce the image and before fluids would have affected it, to have that line up with Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection in a non-supernatural, scientific way, is more powerful to those who don't believe in the supernatural.

[@grahamharden8892]

And the depositing of potentially reactive saponins would likely be in a thicker layer at the surface than the 60 microns of 2 fibrils depth. So of course this should all be put to the test in a suitable reenactment to see if the model is plausible. Also in terms of forensic testing the coloured material should be characterised (surely this has been done?), and cross sections of fibres taken to examine whether the entire fibre is pigmented or just the facing side.

[@savedbygrace8337]

John 4:48 “Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.”

[@stevekingsbury7190]

It makes since that if a cloth was dried in the sun, that the top side (sun side) would be lighter in color than the bottom side and the bottom side would have the coating left on it. When placing the shroud on the body, they would put the lighter colored side on the outside so the body would be in contact with the side that contained the "coating" of minerals ect...

[@CytherX]

Can the shroud be retested in a area that wasn't repaired?

[@theodorematuga7978]

It could but the Church would probably not allow it. Advances in technology have given us even more reliable and specific non-destructive ways to date the Shroud which have already been performed. The Shroud dates back to the 1st century! Every bit of evidence cries out that this is the real deal. The pollen, the coins on the eyes, gravel dust (found only in Jerusalem) on His knees (when He fell) and feet , confirmed human male blood(AB type found only in and around Jerusalem) stains(372), the wound patterns, Facial wounds from beatings, etc.etc. There is no burial shroud ever found with an image let alone one which matches the biblical account so perfectly. The Shroud captured the moment of the Resurrection with a 3-dimensional non-duplicatable image.

[@prlublink]

I enjoyed this video. If I may, I will address one item. Dr Bergeron accepts that the image may have been created through the Maillard reaction on the cloth. The Maillard reaction has been dismissed by most experts in Shroud studies because there is no sign of decomposition on the cloth, a requirement for such a reaction to take place. Dr Bergeron believes that there is some sort of "crust" on the fibers which would validate the Maillard reaction. Again, Shroud experts would disagree. The most accepted cause of the image is a low scorch reaction which would explain the dehydration and oxidation of those fibers in the area of the image. A low scorch reaction would not necessarily show under fluorescent microscopy. Other than that, I thought the presentation reflected well the consensus among Sindonologists. Jesus is risen, He is risen indeed

[@markwilburn546]

I didn't realize that the word "sindonologist" existed. It's a wordplay with the Greek noun, σινδών (sindōn), used by Matthew, Mark and Luke to describe the linen shroud that Joseph of Arimathea used to wrap the body of Jesus in after he was removed from the cross. I have been studying the gospel accounts of the death and resurrection of Jesus for a long time. There are several different interpretations and so many opinions that I got lost in a sea of information that exhausted me. My studies led me down dozens of rabbit holes too. It all started over a debate online with Dr. Ross concerning the Shroud of Turin. Dr. Ross doesn’t believe that the Shroud of Turin is the burial shroud of Jesus. Dr. Ross is an “othonionologist” from the Greek noun, ὀθόνιον (othonion). I realize that nobody is studying the othonion strips that John describes as being left behind after the resurrection, but the word does work to describe someone that opposes the sindonologist viewpoint.

[@theodorematuga7978]

One of the most detailed, accurate, and accepted explanations is given by Fr. Robert Spitzer on KZbin.

[@mimieakutagawa5145]

God gave us another chance to believe in His son Jesus. He came as HUMAN when He was borne of the Virgin Mary during His time on earth. He is the truth but many doubted Him. After He ascended into heaven, He left us a church through Peter, but many of them were like Doubting Thomas and even build their own churches. They left the church Christ built but the truth remains. Christ may not be seen as the people did during His time, but He left us another TRUTH of His being the SON OF GOD......and that is "THE SHROUD OF TURIN".GOD BLESS US, AMEN!

[@jimmycoppinger1305]

The Maillard hypothesis could be put to the test today and results should be out in a fairly short period. That would either falsify the hypothesis or show it to be possible. , But, would this test produce a 3-dimensional image consistent with the image on the shroud of Turin?

[@mikesewchok5978]

Now i'm curious. How many other shrouds/cloths are there with an image like on "the" shroud?

[@sylviafoust9545]

I believe this shroud wrapped Jesus. The evidence is incredible. There is also blood around the head from sharp implements. A thorny crown, no doubt. This was not part of the Roman Crucifixion. This was only done for Jesus, his "crown of thorns".

[@carolynnunes3922]

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

[@rovildcrasta4436]

Sorry, the Maillards reaction is not accepted in the scientific community as the conclusive explanation for the image formation on the Shroud of Turin. The reasons are: Complexity of the Image Formation: The formation of the image on the Shroud involves intricate details such as the precise alignment of the image with 3D characteristics of the body, which the Maillard reaction doesn't fully explain. Lack of Reproducibility: The conditions under which the Shroud's image supposedly formed are difficult to replicate experimentally. The Maillard reaction is influenced by factors like temperature, humidity, and time, making it challenging to recreate the specific circumstances that could have led to the image. Absence of Certain Compounds: The Maillard reaction produces specific chemical compounds, such as melanoidins, which are usually associated with its browning effects. These compounds are not present in significant amounts on the Shroud. Lack of Amino Acid Residues: The Shroud image lacks the presence of amino acid residues that would be expected from the Maillard reaction. These residues are usually found in food products where the reaction has occurred. Please do not provide false information to the public. The image formation on the Shroud of Turin is not yet explained by science. Thank you

[@tyowongndeso]

question is can you create any image by maillard reaction? have tried it to produce an image?

[@RandallChase1]

Yes many attempts have been attempted but nothing has been successful.

[@stephentoons]

the explanation presented for image formation doesnt seem to explain the fact the image is halftoned

[@Number4lead]

Im not sure (yet) if the shroud is authentic or not, but im still waiting for the doubters to run their experiment that demonstrates to us all just how this very unique image could have been created a thousand years ago.

[@dianam4708]

I think I've moved toward it being authentic. I think the timing of how long it was on the body did it for me. I don't think anyone would have taken a burial cloth off of a deaf body back then after so short a period of time. And for there to be no human remains other than blood is impossible--a dead body has weight, and that alone could have caused the part of the body that came into contact with any surface to leave an impression on the cloth, but it didn't. Still, I'm not 100% believing it to be authentic.

[@cba4389]

Satan did it. I'll wait for you to prove it wrong.

[@Keepitoriginalministry]

I feel the exact same way

[@tinamckay-iv3tf]

@@cba4389 I wondered the same thing

[@Glory_be_to_Christ]

@@cba4389 and why would satan do that? Kinda hurting himself if you ask me lol

[@jacquelynwhite500]

What this Doctor is trying to say is French Nuns repaired the Shroud. The Apostles retrieved the Shroud, and the Catholic Church has had the Shroud from the very beginning, except when a 'royal' family got possession of the cloth. They were a Catholic family, so they did return it to the Church.

[@Timdalf1]

These observations throw out a good number of common explanations. This was excellent except for the Maillard reaction... First, the God-man's body did NOT decay or decompose... this is a key theological and Scriptural truth (Ps 15:10 LXX and Acts 2:27). But more obviously, this reaction does NOT explain the image. It may explain the discoloration, but not the clarity and focus of the image which is without distortion or fuzziness. The Shroud had to have been in two perfectly flat planes at the time of the image formation and onto which the image was somehow "projected", not by contact throughout (especially not the bodily recesses the image indicates). This image was not formed by wrapping. This image can only have been produced by some as yet unknown process of non-diffuse projection. In a normal photograph, this requires a lens to focus it. Any natural radiation explanation is, so far as we know now, ruled out.

[@solideogloria5553]

i am just curious whether somebody has been able to produce anyting similar? i know it is authentic as it could possibly get, could the image be just a photo/chemical result with the way they burried the person? surely experiment can be carried out to try to reproduce the process with the technique people would use 2000 yrs ago.

[@RandallChase1]

There have been many attempts to reproduce this effect and no one has been able to do it.

[@hutch23]

Only problem with this, when John looked into the tomb he saw the napkin that was on the face of Jesus laid aside

[@barbeeska]

Some believe that there is sufficient evidence that the Sudarium and the Shroud covered the same person

[@theodorematuga7978]

No problem... the facecloth was placed as He was removed from the cross out of respect and then removed and placed aside when inside the tomb before being wrapped in the Shroud. Both John and Peter saw the Shroud. It has been established that the Sudarium (facecloth) correlates exactly with Christs' head as seen on the Shroud( same blood type, same blood stain pattern) minus the Resurrection image since the Sudarium was not on Him when the Resurrection occurred and the image was formed.

[@iluvrolaz]

N the blood stains retained their red color because of the presence of bilirubin released into the blood stream, due to the extreme trauma he suffered before death

[@toml.8210]

The body of Jesus never decomposed. His soul left after the tomb was sealed, so he could visit the honored dead in Sheol, then he returned to resurrect his body from the tomb on the third day.

[@ninazaragoza6316]

Hi thank you for this video. But why didn’t you include Greek and Italian neighborhoods of Astoria? I grew up in Astoria😊

[@valerieprice1745]

He's wrong on his weaving information. First Century people in the Middle East had multi shaft looms. Weaving in ancient times was incredibly diverse, even within neighborhoods. The looms, techniques, and patterns were so varied, and so few textiles survive in archeology, there is literally no way to know how many weaving patterns they used. In an oak coffin, in one of the Nordic countries, they found herringbone weave that was 800 years older than the First Century. In China, trousers were found that were 3,000 years old, woven in twill, with three other weaving patterns included at various places in the garment. I've made a study of this. I'm a hobby spinner and weaver. My husband built me a 4 shaft look, and the manufacture hasn't really changed in more than 2,000 years. I wish people would stick to what they know. I'm sure he doesn't realize that weavers back then would have had all kinds of looms. They used treadle looms, warp weighted looms, and frame looms in the same weaving house. They used backstrap looms, and they would also stretch the warp along the ground for the same type of weaving as a back strap loom. With textiles, it's important to understand that most examples are decayed away within a few years. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. To assume that a given textile wasn't made in a place where testing determines it originated, just because there aren't other examples in the few fragments of textiles that survive is willful denial of the evidence.

[@maryblushes7189]

Joseph of Aremathea was one of Jesus's uncles...according to tradition, which is why he could legally claim the body. Probably on Elizabeth's side as that was a priestly family. Tradition states he traveled to England on his business as a buyer of metals and took the young Jesus with him.

[@CytherX]

Was England even around at that time? Also I don't think they had routes that far up to Europe yet

[@maryblushes7189]

​@@CytherX Yes, England was around at that time😂😅 It was a large producer of tin, necessary for making bronze. People moved around a lot more than you might think. Consider the silk road.

[@peterpage7441]

The image could NOT have been due to decay, as the Scripture reads in Psalm 16: 8-10: "I have set יהוה always before me; Because He is at my right hand I am not shaken. Therefore my heart was glad, and my esteem rejoices; My flesh also dwells in safety. For You do not leave my being in the grave, Neither let Your Kind One see corruption." Again, in Acts 13: 34-37 it reads: “And that He raised Him out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has said thus, ‘I shall give you the trustworthy kindnesses of Dawiḏ.’ For this reason He also says in another Psalm, ‘You shall not give Your Kind One to see corruption.’ For Dawiḏ, indeed, having served his own generation by the counsel of Elohim, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption, but He whom Elohim raised up saw no corruption." Read the Scriptures, they were written for you.

[@NancyBeee]

The Gospels tell us that the wrapping for the head was separate, and even describes how the cloth that covered His head was neatly folded, but the cloth that his body was wrapped in was not folded. I’m sorry, but this DISPROVES THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE SHROUD. THE SHROUD WOULD NOT HAVE THE HEAD MARKING. NOBODY TALKS ABOUT THIS. ANY COMMENTS ON IT? 😊

[@seamusweber8298]

​@Debbie L exactly. And the Sudarium of Oviedo is exactly symmetrical to the image of the Shroud. Separate clothes, but both are from the same time/location/fabric composition.

[@NancyBeee]

@@debbiel8105 hmmmm. Well, I never heard of that. Thanks 😊!

[@billysanford2963]

I believe the HOLY SPIRIT was leading that person to hold on that event for now!

[@denzielgrant8418]

This is illuminatingly and interesting … I don’t think from what I understood from this Avatar man he would’ve left anything that … was burn or scotch nature animals insects or the nature itself or come close to disintegrate nature … shroud wouldn’t and that it wouldn’t … have been burnt as this been against Nature and love … I would think

[@armoringregret9833]

How explain the photos from the Alicante Civil War? Certainly not 1920’s.

[@theresa42213]

So ...is this consistent with what the guys from the STURP team called ''Dehydrated Oxidation'' then? Thanks. :)

[@marionchase-kleeves8311]

14:16 the blood on the shroud is RED due to the presence of BILLIRUBIN in the blood from the extreme trauma suffered due to being beaten severely

[@KithEsq]

Read the ancient text called the hymn of The Pearl. I believe it's about The shroud

[@user-wm7mp2fl1p]

YAHWEH God moves with light just the same the burning bush to attract Moses but yet the bush were not burnt the writing of the ten Commandments with fire which were given to Moses the resurrection of Christ from death to life which was a cause of light hence the image on the Shroud somewhat like a Xerox Copier Machine hence the Shroud is without the shadow of a doubt the burial cloth of Jesus Christ as the image is beyond human comprehension and is the most tested artifact ever in the history of the world

[@louiscstrieber5478]

Has anyone tested the blood to compare it to the results Ron Wyatt got from the mercy seat?

[@RandallChase1]

The Ron Wyatt items have not been confirmed as accurate from my understanding.

[@davidr.hofstetter7301]

That would be an interesting test indeed! If there was a match, it would confirm and prove that this blood was from the living God!

[@John3.16.17]

❤❤❤

[@privatepilot4064]

But doesn’t the Bible say there were clothes and a “napkin” wrapped around his head? John 20:7 “And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.” And Lazarus was bound (wrapped) in grave clothes with a napkin on his head. John 11:44 “And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.” Bound means wrapped. Just sayin’

[@edwardparkhurst9804]

You can't possibly believe that it's really. it's not even the way He was tented to after His death read the Bible you will find something about that that will prove that it's not the burial cloth of the ordeal.

[@tool_fighter]

Huh?

[@Glory_be_to_Christ]

Why don’t you quote the Holy Bible? It has chapters and verses for a reason?

[@Drakemiser]

Another reason the blood is red as opposed to black is Jesus was beaten mercilessly. When that happens the blood cells break down to something called bilirubin. Bilirubin stays red as opposed to darkening.

[@toosiyabrandt8676]

Hi The image still qualifies as a photo negative photo ( light) graph ( picture)because it was made DIRECTLY with light exposure onto a receiving surface ( white linen in this case). It precedes the process of photography made with a camera by many centuries because the amount of light radiation necessary to make the Shroud of Turin image on the linen cloth ISNT EVEN AVAILABLE IN THESE TIMES! ( IT WAS THE BURST OF LIGHT THAT RESURRECTED JESUS FROM THE DEAD)BUT THE PROCESS IS THE SAME! Shalom to us only in Christ Yeshua returning soon to reign over the world from Jerusalem forever.

[@tracywarren7332]

So no miracle necessary, but this is the only time we have an image.

[@yahkins1]

There’s no signs of decomposition of the body on the cloth in fact there’s no signs of blood clot tear which would occur if the body will remove from the cloth early… Therefore the hypothesis of some kind of chemical reaction given enough time fails

[@jrbaretta]

RIP BARRIE SCHWORTZ June 21, 2024

[@ByGraceThroughFaith777]

Still it doesn't explain the perfect 3dmentionality of the image when the cloth is stretched out, even when the cloth was not stretched out over the body.

[@Jesus2030King]

That’s what makes it even more fascinating! The depth distance between the body and shroud were not in contact. This suggests that some how the body was levitating in between cloth that was perfectly flat and stretched around the body. Suddenly makes sense why there were Angels at the tomb as reported in the gospels. Could it be the Angels stretched out the cloth before the body was resurrected?

[@ByGraceThroughFaith777]

@Ronaldo as LA Marzulli puts it, it's the proof of purchase lol. I can't explain how it was created, just like I can't explain the science of how Jesus resurrected. And I don't have to. God is awesome!

[@swarnamohanty3121]

So shroud is 1300 years old by many methods of test.

[@beverlyhurd8556]

What? Who told you that lie? And you _believed_ them? It would benefit you to do some research rather than it would to make a fool of yourself.

[@kimanimzalendo367]

Why is it objectionable that the thesis is a miracle happened? It seems that the thrust of the conversation (though admittedly I skipped some content) is that a death rather than a resurrection occurred. I guess it depends on what the channel wants people to believe

[@alanhales6369]

Reasons to believe, anyone who knows the Bible will know that the image on the shroud of Turin isn't Jesus, why don't people read and believe the Bible??

[@tool_fighter]

Def Jesus . Do more research

[@alanhales6369]

@@tool_fighter anyone who knows the Bible will know that the image on the shroud of Turin isn't Jesus. Why don't people read and believe the Bible??.

[@LivingTithe]

​@@alanhales6369 can u be more specific? What exactly in the bible is leading u to say this? Just assuming other believers here havnt read their bible doesnt teach or encourage healthy dialogue. There are many people that read their bible /believe in the Lord and believe the shroud is the real deal

[@alanhales6369]

@@LivingTithe (1)The gospel of John tells us what manner the Jews covered the dead, it was with strips of linen cloths and a separate head cover. NOT one of the gospels say Jesus was wrapped in a shroud or a cloth singular. Mark says, just linen. Luke says linen cloths, Plural. And Matthew says winding sheets Plural. (2)The Bible says Jesus was whipped open so much that He wasn't recognised as a man, He could see and count His bones and see His Intestines. The image on the shroud of Turin looks like a man. The image on the shroud of Turin looks nothing like as bad as Jesus would have looked. It's amazing how many people don't read or believe the Bible.

[@LivingTithe]

@@alanhales6369 i have read it and even by your words can see how people think this is the real deal. I have also seen the shroud in person. Regardless, its not a salvation issue. Family can always agree to disagree. God Bless brother

[@thomaszynda]

When you pay in full for something you get a receipt do you not?

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

The natualist hypothesis does not account for the teeth and other skeletal features on the Shroud's images, nor does it account for the increase in radiocarbon.

[@garym7989]

At aprox. the 35 minute mark, he states it does not require a miracle to yield the strange reaction on the shroud. THE problem with that is then WHy is this so unique AND a ´photograph, unique in history. No, It does appear to be HI)M. And a miracle.

[@ritadelitta424]

Wow😳😳😳😳

[@Edwin-pw7cu]

This is Old stufff. There are new discoveries on this and prove it is the genuine article.

[@kenoneill8783]

*His whole atheist theory breaks down because hair doesn't decay, yet Christ's hair and beard are clearly visible on the image.*

[@grahamharden8892]

of course a Maillard reaction with an nitrogen rich vapour/gas would be likely to penetrate deeper than 2 fibrils in line of sight - so that theory requires a further nuance if it is to stand

[@christophercoughlin9493]

When did anyone have permission to take off the cellulose on the shroud with tape. there was permission to pick up pollen grains, that's it!

[@Strutingeagle]

Unless the shroud was completely flat and the energy was moving perpendicular to its plane, an image of such proper proportions would be impossible unless God intended to leave an image. This then begs the question as to why the image is such a poor quality. Looks like a hoax.

[@Glory_be_to_Christ]

Make a better one then

[@nbenefiel]

The Middle Ages loved relics. They were all over the place. There were enough pieces of the “true cross” to rebuild Noah’s ark. There as a shroud in France, one in Italy. Can anyone tell me how the shroud survived the Jewish Roman war only to be found 1300 years later by some crusader? My favorite relic of all is the blood of St Januarius in Naples. The blood liquefies on his feast day. If it doesn’t do it fast enough all the old ladies get together and curse it until it does. Ya gotta love it

[@beverlyhurd8556]

Thankfully in this day and age, very few people are actually brainless enough to call the Shroud of Turin a fake.

[@darlingtonjonesimagery9247]

very interesting that these guys dont want to say it is Jesus. They call it "the man"

[@jvcoulter]

It's difficult to tell exactly what you're implying, so I can't respond directly; I'll just note that putting aside presuppositions is an important part of any objective inquiry, whether they are naturalistic or supernaturalistic.

[@129jasper1]

The host is Protestant, not sure about Mr. Bergeron. The Protestants, some of them, seem to be taking a few faltering steps into the Lost World. They've been gone a long time, and are grappling with things that smack of dirty Papistry to them. Give them some time to adjust. ...And as the other guy is commenting, they are trying to present a gentle, step by step look at the evidence, and not bludgeon the skeptics with it. ...I have no problem calling the man who was in the shroud Jesus. Seriously, how can there be any doubt? And hey, Jesus is THE MAN!

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

The image certainly doesn't belong to Christ, because He didn't have long hair. That's as good as proof as any that the shroud is fraudulent.

[@winstedwildmanresearch]

He's just repeating all the Ray Rogers theories. Rogers, the atheist. But there are several characteristics of the shroud, that do not go along with the Maillard Reaction. The Maillard reaction creating a three dimensional, distance related image? NOPE!!

[@graphguy]

Interesting channel! But......... I don't need any reasons to believe. God doesn't need me to believe. I believe solely on ...........Faith. Yup, that's it! Faith. God told me to have faith and be obedient. I am both and YOU should be also.