The Inevitability of Religion: Evolution, Video Games, AI and Psychedelics (Freedom Pact)

[@taranmurray7046]

On the question of "Should everyone just pray, regardless of belief?" I must say I agree. I was in the interviews boat for a long time. Very spiritual, but non-denominational. I took part in yoga, meditation, Native American ceremonies, psychedelics and the whole New Age starter kit. It eventually occurred to me that prayer must be just another one of these spiritual technologies that would facilitate a transformation of my consciousness. So I started praying every day a number of months ago. Basically, it turned me into a Christian. Be careful! hahah. Much love.

[@EamonBurke]

One of the most radical things you can do is act on the belief that God's Spirit is faithful and if people seek Him, they will find Him. I'm stoked for you!

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

I think you just reminded me of something I’ve lost sight of. I too wandered in the spiritual countries of other peoples, seeking their wisdoms through their means, and coming home feels ever more powerful. Thanks be to Jesus for teaching us how to pray.

[@taranmurray7046]

@@EamonBurke Thank you deeply! It is all in his hands anyways.

[@taranmurray7046]

@@TRLgoodvibesdotcom Amen to that. I see now how I would not have been thoroughly ripened on my spiritual path without all the adventuring, particularly from. the spiritual influence of the East. I find it odd that Yoga, and Buddhism presented themselves as more available than Orthodox Christianity, which I only ever even heard tell of in the last few years of my life. I was wondering constantly: "why is there so much spiritual richness everywhere by Christianity?" But I came from a long line of spiritually deprived Christians and we lost the depth of meaning contained therein. Turns out it was there all along! I just was wearing the wrong glasses

[@vik1n9]

Praying is visualizing, just like how caveman painted on walls to plan their attack.

[@yourmatetom]

You’re a legend Jonathan, I would love to speak about these topics with you on my podcast. Much love ❤️

[@dingdong5850]

didnt expect seeing you here :o good that you are coming home, maybe

[@yourmatetom]

@@dingdong5850 I’ve been going to Liturgy for the last month or so. Yes I am home lol.

[@AliciaBaldelli]

I would LOVE to hear you both speak!!!

[@RollOut82]

@@AliciaBaldelli Yes I second this opinion! Jonathan you should be a guest on Tom's channel! :)

[@miragefd]

In a few of Jordan Peterson's talks, he discusses sin as being akin to missing the mark, stemming from a broader discussion on personal aim and perception of moving towards the good. Your description on hell as meeting a future version of yourself and not living up to that expectation gave a new perspective that compliments his. Hell could be inferred as a final culmination of sins (misses) that prevents you from embodying that which you could potentially become.

[@MeShellMaBelle]

And I can totally relate!

[@joshf2218]

That is sort of what Christianity in the East has always interpreted as hell anyway. The true Hell is being in the presence of God when Christ returns and being stuck forever as evil and unable to know the God who made you.

[@papercut7141]

@@joshf2218 for a while I've wondered about the "forever" part of that If the wages of sin are death, those allied with sin finally allied with death, and in the end times death itself is finally thrown into the fire, then both earth and heaven pass away to bring in the eschaton. In that process where is the room for never ending suffering

[@117Industries]

I agree with this absolutely. But, here’s the really freaky bit: what happens when many millions of peoples all collectively miss the mark over generations, and those effects compound and multiply beyond their ability to fix them? You have Hell manifest, and its denizens are reduced to soulless husks (Demons). So what’s cool about it is not just that there is a rationally intelligible explanation for the mechanism of sin, but that it must rationally produce outcomes very much reminiscent of our ancient depictions or descriptions of Hell. So, while I think Christianity insufficient for humanity’s future as a narrative or spiritual tool (and I think the same of other Abrahamic texts), it’s still neat that its ideas actually play out in reality, or at least that we can find such striking parallels.

[@johnbuckner2828]

It’s true what you say about JP. He seems relatable, understanding and compassionate….& honest and genuine…Id choose him for my shrink.

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

Youd better be ready to put in the work bucko! Its not ovvious whats wrong with you! And it could be ALOT 🦞

[@johnbuckner2828]

@@TRLgoodvibesdotcom You’re super neato 😃

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

@@johnbuckner2828 😆 I love Jordan. He feels worried and confident at the same time

[@johnbuckner2828]

@@TRLgoodvibesdotcom I agree

[@ScotsThinker]

Can I just say Jonathan that our unique narrative style interpretation of the world is deeply insightful on how to seek a more meaningful life. Your the sort of person I'd love to converse with.

[@purdyday2195]

Thank you JP for helping me, in bringing peace to my inner world, with your graceful delivery of basic and essential truths.

[@scottfrench2986]

Very wise, Jon's points about psychedelics. You must be able to discern between angels and demons first. The 60's opened up the doors to this mess.

[@RyoMassaki]

Yes, but the problem is not psychedelics, they are just a tool - the problem like always are humans. Psychedelics act as amplifiers - Garbage in garbage out. If used correctly, psychedelics can manifest the biggest potential for healing that the world has ever seen, but like a scalpel it can be used for good or for evil, that is the fate of every tool. It's not the tool that manifests good or evil, its the human mind/soul that drives this duality. In consequence, why should we trust in the same authorities that constantly create wars and corrupt power hierarchies and corrupt economics in discerning what's best for the population? Seen from this viewpoint, prohibiting the use of psychedelics can be described as the biggest crime against the whole world population by deriving us from the tools that are able to heal ourself from corruption on every level. Modern psychiatry is a joke, its a corrupt system that has only one function: to make us into functioning gears in the machinery of this kaputt consumer society. Correctly applied traditional shamanism as a replacement/substitute for psychiatry has the potential to make competent and whole humans out of people that are merely adjusted to a profoundly sick society. The dangers of psychedelics are 100% the consequence of either lack of wisdom or intentional evil.

[@scottfrench2986]

​@@RyoMassaki Psychedelics is escapism. Just like taking a vacation to a beach. Both can provide a reset to the mind, body and soul. Psychedelics is a connection to another world. The warning from exorcist priests is that you do not know what you are connecting with. Things are able to change form very easily in that realm. They also warn that demons can take on the forms of angels or benevolent beings, this is done to drop your guard and allow them in. I have had several psychedelic experiences and all of them were pleasant, wonderful, god-like, magical, and fun. In retrospect, I have considered that perhaps I connected with a fabrication of God or a complete illusion. I agree government should have no say in what we put in our bodies. My parents got divorced when I was 18, and the college I attended offered free psychological services. I was able to talk to someone about my feelings and hash it out with him. Psychology allows people to express their feelings without burdening close friends and family with your problems. Modern psychiatry does not have all the answers, but it can be helpful in moderation. I can consider some DMT elf or other formless being could provide some helpful advice, however meeting on a Monday at 4 pm with him to talk again might be troublesome. Also having multiple discussions of who he really is might be not even possible. Talking with one real human worked for me, and if I introduced multiple inter-dimensional beings to the conversation- I think I would have left more confused. Psychedelics has become more of a business these days, with fancy packaging. Back in the day "healing" was not as attached to the marketing of psychedelics. I think people like Joe Rogan who lead the charge on the modern psychedelic movement, are not versed in the real dangers of the demonic realm. Rogan also leads the charge to the world of trans-humanism, AI, and virtual reality. One should consider that perhaps this dissatisfaction with the natural world created by God, is a movement created by satan himself to bring about a world that is hell on Earth. The hippies introduced LSD, Steve Jobs took LSD, Apple computers were born, and that tech will birth trans-humanism, AI, and virtual reality. So in 2022, when you book your trip to Brazil for your ayahuasca retreat, you will have to contend with the beast and come up with vaccine passports, tracking and mandatory vaccines. We need to face the demons in the real world who are destroying it, and yes the members of the secret societies who control the world have been working with inter-dimensional beings connected via psychedelics for ages. You might want to be sober for that, because it is about to get very real.

[@RyoMassaki]

@@scottfrench2986 I am not a Christian, I don't believe in dualism. I am an non-dualist, I have been practising meditation and other techniques for 20 years and I am quite educated on the topic of shamanism. Christianity has a very, VERY bad track record when it comes to identifying mental health issues and confusing them with demonic/spiritual possession. I reject a literal taken biblical/Christian world-view (to a certain degree), seeing it in a symbolic way is a different thing and something I am more in line with. Literal taken Christianity is a little-bit too naive in my opinion, as it either diminishes peoples roles in "doing evil", or by promoting simple "solutions" for very complex problems. This starts with the simple error of defining everything as demonic. Take Ayahuasca Shamanism for example. People always talk about their spirit work as something comparable to spirits in the Abrahamic world-view - nothing could be further from the truth. These Shamanic traditions are very clear in communicating what they are doing, they are working with plants, and their understanding of what a spirit (plant spirit) is, is completely different than what people of the 3 desert religions believe. Christians/Muslim/Jews will argue against it, but they are all making wrong assumptions based on their world-view, applying definitions with a strong confirmation bias, while rejecting any data that defies their narrative. There are a lot of plants that are benevolent, as well as many that are not. They are not agents of Satan, they are simply living breathing entities like us, living in natural hierarchies, having their own agendas like human societies. Its not as simple as a straight black and white duality. Its a wide spectrum. We humans are in an alliance with grains and grass and certain types of animals, we conspired against the forest and having eradicated its habitat to the edge of extinction - this has consequences. Grains have developed chemicals that make people addicted to it (they didn't have these chemicals before widespread agriculture!), as a consequence humans get fat and dependent and we plant and protect these plants from other plants. Its not a one way relationship if you think about it a little further. We have evolved with plants and we nurture our bodies with plants. If you drink coffee, tea, eat grains and sugar and use plant base medication than you are no different than what indigenous people do, except they are far more sophisticated in their approach and much more aware. These "plant spirits" or rather energies are all around us, and they whisper in our ears, no matter if you are listening or not. It is simply impossible to live a life without being dependent on the plant (and animal) world. The difference is in how much awareness you apply while doing it. "Demonic" influences are also always there, you don't need to "open up" channels with psychedelics, these channels are open, no matter what. What psychedelics do is taken the blinders away so that you are able to see what is there, but it makes no difference in the long run if you are blind or not, the influence is always there, always has been, always will be. Hitler, Stalin, Mao didn't need psychedelic drugs to kill several hundred millions of people. The key to everything is awareness. Without it you are just a biological automaton, driven by instinct and desire, like a child. This is where the non-dualistic world-view, the shamanistic world-view and the Christian world-view somewhat get in alignment, because if you are focussed on the moral system provided by God, or the innate structure of nature, or the knowledge of oneness you will not be confused by these forces and made an instrument of destruction by them. You also confuse psychology with psychiatry, I have no problems with the former, a lot with the latter. I had suffered in my life from depression and anxiety, psychology did help a little but delivered no solution, except endless talks with "professionals", psychiatry gave me no way out, just more chemical rope to hang myself faster - only when I left it behind and applied traditional plant based shamanism was I able to dig myself out of the hole I had created myself and which was created for me by society. I can say with absolute conviction, that I would be dead by now without it. This is pure anecdotal evidence, but there is tons of it. He who heals is right. That does not diminish the experience of people who have been harmed by the use of psychedelics or people that have used them wrong or with evil intention. Both are true. It's not either good or evil - its a spectrum. You are also partly wrong with your statement that psychedelics are escapism. They absolutely can be (and this is what many people in the modern western world are using them for), but if applied correctly, they are the opposite of that. There is nothing comparable with the absolute brutal confrontation a plant medicine can deliver. They can be an instrument of introspection so powerful that nothing is left untouched, nothing unseen, nothing hidden. It's scary, very transformative and not without risks, no doubt about it. It demands preparations, knowledge, good intentions, a lot of discipline, the right environment and support structure. Without that it become potentially dangerous to ones well-being. You can use these medicines to gain absolute clarity of mind and removing any pattern of pathology of the mind and body, or you can use them to get yourself into an messiah complex delusion, or turn yourself into an demon. This power is one of the reasons people confuse that experience with the experience of God or Satan. There is an presumed entity that is incredible powerful and you are naked before it and there is nothing hidden from it. Christians cannot think of it as God, because scripture forbids the usage of drugs/medicine/sorcery, therefore it must be the devil using an reductionist logic. I think that is too reductionist and too simple, I rather interpret that in the Jungian sense. Yes, this of course isn't the Christian God, but neither is it the devil. It is your own consciousness, fuelled and altered by the energy of the plants. People are confronted mostly with themself and their own shadow, and by externalising evil, they dig their hole deeper. By pushing it away onto the devil, they can pretend its some external force they have no control over, but this isn't the truth. People have full control over how they react to the world. That IS the realm of their personal freedom and only that. Rejecting it and making excuses for your own behaviour and deeds is when these presumed external forces can "enter" your body/mind/soul and take control, because YOU GAVE UP CONTROL. That is the essential lesson these medicines teach, they can give you tons of information about this field of energy that makes up the world, but in the end it is your and only your responsibility how you use it. That is the gift and curse of free-will. "We need to face the demons in the real world who are destroying it." 100% agreement here. Modern society and capitalism as an manifestation of greed is like a cancer and it turns nature into consumer goods. This is quite a demonic mindset and it leads to destruction as it dwells in low energy emotion based behaviour, favouring self-gratification over self-improvement. Everything it touches turns into shit. Fuck AI, transhumanism and the secret societies that want to rule the world with the help of their "demonic helpers". Here is the good news: Karma (or you might say the law of God ) is real and nature abhors an imbalance.

[@scottfrench2986]

@@RyoMassaki Demons or evil spirits seem to be common theme in all religions and spirituality. I agree good and evil is linked to the human psyche, but at the same time demons have a presence that can influence our reality. It is called "tripping" for a reason. If you want to call it ceremony or a healing process, no problem with that. I believe in plant medicine too and there are many ways to be healed. People have bad trips, and you can chalk it up to real world factors or people facing their own internal flaws. However, I think there is also a demonic presence that interacts with people in that state sometimes and people are completely unaware of what is happening. If you are unaware of it, then it on some level it has a bit of control of over you. If you are skilled in navigating that world, then the message is not really for you. Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[@MissPopuri]

This made me think of an article I read about Megan Fox taking an hallucinogenic drug that put her through hell. Whatever she was going through, it must not have been good and wholesome.

[@liamtormey8]

Love to listening to conversations that calm, nurture and inspire the heart, mind and spirit. Thanks fellas

[@TheFeralcatz]

The bit about Darwin and where you used the examples of Michelangelo's David and Beethoven was so illuminating. Very great illustration. I often find it difficult to communicate these symbolic ideas to people, even though I feel like I have a decent grasp on many of these concepts intuitively. Could you make a video where you explain how to inject symbolic concepts into everyday conversations?

[@dawnmuir5052]

Excellent as always, Jonathan!. I was very glad to hear your Heaven and Hell 101. I've heard only bits of it in your other talks, but never the big picture. Please do more on that, as well as (connected to another comment here), the overlap or convergence of God as structure ("in" Heaven?), as person and as God within us. There are some great questions in these comments which I hope you will take up in your channel. You are such a help to so many! Thank you!

[@OneMansOdyssey]

Jonathan, I'm wondering if maybe in a future video (or maybe I'll ask in the monthly Q&A) you could give a brief rebuttal to Nietzsche. I agree with your point that he was encountering materialistic Christianity in his day, but I also think he realized that fact. In his writings I sort of sense that he views that as a symptom of the decline of Christianity, as a prelude to nihilism. For instance, in this passage from The Will to Power: "The time has come when we have to pay for having been Christians for two thousand years: we are losing the center of gravity by virtue of which we lived . . . one attempts a kind of this-worldly solution, but in the same sense-that of the eventual triumph of truth, love, and justice . . . one also tries to hold on to the moral ideal . . . one still believes in good and evil and experiences the triumph of the good and the annihilation of evil as a task . . ." That is, it is clear to me that Nietzsche identifies this stage of Christianity exactly as you have: as an inconsistent, illogical reconciliation of the ethics of Christianity with a secular, even atheistic, society. Of course, he reaches different conclusions than you.

[@gracefullyyours6508]

I am so thankful that he asked the questions about heaven and hell. I have listened to endless enjoyable hours of JP but never heard these great answers.

[@JaredandTasha]

That definition of hell is the best definition ive heard of it yet. Been going to church my whole life too

[@gregorymoats4007]

Yes.Within a juridical reading of redemption and salvation heaven is a place we go after death, and hell is it’s opposite. For many Jonathan presents a kind of heresy. Bless him for all his good work

[@gregorymoats4007]

@@cherylderue336 you clearly didn’t understand what I said, which is the standard evangelical views....it’s in their bag of tricks.

[@gregorymoats4007]

@@cherylderue336 you seem to be quite adept at straw manning...

[@gregorymoats4007]

@@cherylderue336 what is your actual point?

[@bradspitt3896]

The conversations with people who don't totally understand you are my favorites, because they have the same questions as me.

[@rccola0318]

The interviewer has superb skill.

[@veilofreality]

It's interesting and funny at the same time to see how all of Jonathan's recent guests, the AI lady, the parkour guy, and this young man, all worship and hold as the most sacred, core element of their entire belief system Darwin's myth of evolution. I understand what Jonathan is doing and why he appears content not to challenge the foundational stone of their secular faith, at the same time I'm really glad that there are highly intelligent and articulate Orthodox apologists online, who have no problem in affirming their outright disbelief in the most pervasive and central of all secular dogmas.

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

Christianity needs to make room for evolution. It’s so obviously the way things work it’s dishonest to not acclimate to the knowledge. It would be like denying electricity just because Jesus only used oil lamps

[@veilofreality]

@@TRLgoodvibesdotcom no, it's not. Evolution, is based on innumerable assumptions, and it's full of holes and incoherences. Abiogenesis in particular, is outright ludicrous and irrational (in a gazillion years rocks turned into people). When you start to research the history of the idea of evolution itself, and that of institutions the Royal Society and of people like T.H.Huxley, Darwin's bulldog, you start to see how evolution was forcefully promoted, and used as a mean to justify the expansion of the British Empire and of the banking system. Not only it is fundamentally a lie, since it's inception it has been cynically promoted as a weapon for mass control and social engineering. The recent insanity, we are all suffering under, is the latest instalment, in the history of this scam.

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

@@veilofreality this is a very dense (as in rich) topic full of intricacies. I honor your position but feel this format is not suitable for a deep debate. For the record, rocks don’t turn into people, we are all made of the same lifeless matter. Life, if it is anything, is a gestalt of the lifeless. Interconnection and interchangeability is the nature of the universe, being all one within God and of Him. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust… From dust. To dust.

[@veilofreality]

@@TRLgoodvibesdotcom I appreciate your very polite answer. Usually this topic fires up people...I agree that a youtube comment section is not the best place to discuss this seriously, but since it is pretty clear that you believe in God and probably adovcate theistic evolution, I though it might make sense to somehow continue the interaction. I don't know if you are a Christian, but if you are, how do you reconcile evolution with Saint Paul's teaching that there was no death before the fall? Plus all of the Church father's consistent teaching regarding Creation? Because if death was already present at the beginning of Creation, then Christ didn't really defeat death and restore life. His sacrifice was thus unecessary and meaningless. The whole cosmic scope of the incarnation is also lost. Even though, in the last couple centuries, the Roman Catholic Church has attempted (rather poorly in my estimation) to reconcile these two cofnlicting doctrines, the more I researched Christian doctrine, especially Orthodoxy (I'm a Roman Catholic) the more I understood that without the doctrine of Creation, the whole thing falls apart.

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

@@veilofreality all of this is how I understand: I am a Christian in that I follow Christ. I read the Bible as the word of God spoken through prophets. I do not read the Bible as perfect revealed truth that came intact, for linguistic historical reasons and practical ones, but rather as an evolved truth. Humans learn of God by observing, and He is all. By observing the universe, social interactions, natural patterns, and so on, we come to know Him and know ourselves. The Fall is based upon the development of knowledge, at once a burden and an advantage. The death that results from the fall is the knowledge of death, the foresight into doom and therefore a potential pit of nihilism. Christ redeems us from nihilism by showing us the richness of life and how to live. I absolutely do not believe in a metaphysical heaven outside of the earth and life we live. Either heaven is here now or it is not. Hell as well. I will assume we differ here and that is understandable. Christ came to give us life. This life. Shake off doom, shake off regret. He died and told us not to worry, that he has defeated death. We, all of us, all of life lives on. We are one soul of God and cannot die. It is the evolution of knowledge that Christ bestowed upon us that saved us from the mistaken ideas of death. In my view, it is a shame that the church took Christianity from us and made it about rules and systems and theories and heavens and hells of the afterlife. It is a shame that they used it for fear and control through the middle centuries of our civilization. Many valuable truths were lost in the murky darkness of the mid century kingdoms under Papal reign. I view the Church as a shroud over the eyes, a smokey shade that distorts Christ’s message that we, individuals, can come to know God directly. This is a primary difference between an orthodox (eg Catholic) and a protestant. I believe in talking directly to our creator, to God, to his Son for we are all One.

[@MachoMaamRandallSandwich]

When Jonathan spoke about how confronting the infinite love of God can produce hell within the person that bares witness to it... On a personal level, I imagine it's similar to when you meet someone, say an old friend, that is seemingly doing incredibly well in life, has experienced luck and fortune, at a time when you are personally struggling. It's as if you were looking into a mirror that reached into your very soul, rather than just reflecting our outer shell. Those feelings we feel, of jealousy, disappointment, embarrassment, that we push back down, would represent a microscopic blip in comparison to when we meet God.

[@garymelnyk7910]

At 16:23 you say “A chair is a bunch of stuff…” I highly recommend On Abstract Ideas, the last chapter of William Hazlitt’s Essays on the Principles of Human Action. Profound, heavily nuanced and obviously the resultant of years of deep and wide ranging study. It needs to be read carefully and then reread. “A chair is a bunch of stuff”…..that in effect is what he says, but being one of the best writers ever of prose in English, he says it with the utmost felicity. I highly recommend the chapter, as it explains why everyone understands the same “thing” so variously.

[@TheMeaningCode]

4:20: A metaphor is an ark. The Metaphor is The Ark.

[@KENTUCKYUSA1]

Excellent interview. Jonathan, you are getting better and better at this.

[@Lotvs_one]

I was really in need of these kind of insights right now. Thank you both very much

[@tranjitrumnpai1252]

JP is 100% on point of his video game comments. Thought I was alone thinking something similar

[@flipneleanor7370]

It's very interesting how the way you describe what makes a life worth living mirrors life in a video game. The thing that makes say a role playing game worth playing is that you can see your hierarchy status from the beginning all the way to the end in that particular story , if that makes sense. It's fantastic escapism but achieving those levels in the hierarchy does not offer the same satisfaction of achieving those levels in the real world, if that makes sense.

[@srijanagrawal255]

this was tremendous. might've changed my life. cheers

[@josephmartin4343]

I know that feeling. Happens often when listening to Pageau. God bless.

[@bretwells3610]

Christianity is a vehicle for us to return to a metaphysical paradise where god has paved our road and we do not determine what is good or bad.

[@chandrachand4420]

Please tell me that you're going to cover the new loki show

[@richardemerson549]

Great questions - thanks for posting this!

[@jasbrg]

Trying to replace worship of God with earthly values is like a moth trying to fly by the light of a flame instead of the moon, you will be trapped by your failure to orient because the thing by which you orient yourself will continually move relative to you.

[@garymelnyk7910]

Also a profound definition of how consciousness tries to understand itself. “There is a quality of life which lies always beyond the mere fact of life; and when we include the quality in the fact, there is still omitted the quality of the quality.” Religion in the Making (February 1926), Lecture II: "Religion and Dogma". A N Whitehead

[@younggrasshopper3531]

25:26 Jonathan you really outdone yourself again this time 😎😊

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

Fellini’s films sure nailed the present unwinding……..

[@KEYMASTERJONNY]

Perfect title. KEEP EM COMING

[@olgakarpushina492]

I was reading Holland's The Dominion when I read about the two queens' statues' being pulled down. Boy, those "iconoclasts" are so freaking predictable. So damn religious. All the minuses and none of the pros of a real religion! Pathetic!!

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@patrickburell7139]

Hey Jonathan, what is your take on the Tamar story in Genesis? I’ve never known what to do with the story, but it is also strange how it is split in the middle of the Joseph story

[@Rotek10000]

Hey Jonathan, as much as I appreciate that you warn against psychedelics, I think we should be careful to not throw the baby out of the bath water. The use of psychoactive plants was not strange to ancient Christians at all, though of course the context was different. E.g. Origen said that mandrake (Psychoactive plant popular in Ancient Greece) can be beneficial for deepening faith, and Saint Basil the Great commented "“These plants, then, instead of making you accuse the Creator, give you a new subject for gratitude.” What I am saying that sometimes these plants can be very beneficial. Rather than condemning the plants themselves, it may be better to focus on the context and narrative around them

[@younggrasshopper3531]

30:00 people have a desire to participate in a story that transcends them

[@ailius1520]

Look up Touhou Project's relationship to Shinto if you want to see some crazy intersections between a video game and a religion. It's even gotten to the point where you have actual Shinto shrines selling amulets featuring Touhou characters - the religion is adopting the iconography from the video game.

[@IronKing66]

All philosophers have a metaphysical hardon for chairs

[@RhemaMinistriesMumbai]

😂plato

[@llamzrt]

and mugs

[@questioneverything55]

an interesting thought experiment is the book "A Short Stay in Hell" by Steven L. Peck. It has flaws, but it is an interesting read from the standpoint of thinking about eternity.

[@UNOwenWasMe]

Does anyone have a source on the slave who became emperor for a day being killed at the end? It's not like I don't believe, but I would love to have that information!

[@thedisintegrador]

To the point about psychedelics: I've done psychedelics multiple times, while also believing in God. And I think it is really helpful to learn to discern the spirits while doing them. Because as you said, you enter into the realms of angels and demons and it can be quite dangerous, because you can encounter luminous beings and be exposed to very convincing truths, only to later realise that they were mere illusions or demons. But I think that a very skeptical and rigorous scientific person is also safer in the same manner as a spirit-discerning person is, because he has the skepticism to admit that it was just his brain playing tricks on him all along. But I can say from the bottom of my heart that deciding to try shrooms and lsd was one of the better decisions in my life. Not only did they show me that reality is much more than I thought, but they also somehow made order in my life. They also, in a sense, brought me to very traditional Christianity (together with greek philosophy), while also making a bit of a traditionalist from me. You could say that they did the exact opposite to what they did to the hippies. They established in me a sense of hierarchy and order. Not to mention that it seems that they are a very powerful tool in addiction and depression treatment.

[@NAME-k9g]

I would have followed up with the question, What do you do with the evolution answer for origins vs Christian's origins. Abiogenesisvs Genesis

[@soniaslater8909]

Amazing discussion

[@douglasmotta5971]

Excellent conversation, Mr. Pageau! Sorry for being (a little?) dumb, although I can understand the point of God not existing in our locus of reality, I cannot conceive Acts 17:28 as making sense; that is to say, if God does not exist "here" then how is it correct to state :"For in him we live, and move, and have our being"? Kudos from Brazil!

[@mybrickhead]

videogames are a wide spectrum of narrative experiences, tyvm

[@paradisecityX0]

In one of the most sophisticated and complex vid game series ever developed, the Assassin's Creed series, religion is plastered throughout

[@ScotsThinker]

The Halo Franchise also has Religious Subject matter and Symbolism.

[@bradspitt3896]

"The Flood"

[@paradisecityX0]

@@bradspitt3896 "Covenant"

[@trappaskunk]

6:45 are Juggalos and the Dark Carnival foreshadowing the eschaton? Whoop whoop.

[@ckahlquist2129]

Faygo for all.

[@yogerrry]

I wonder does he ever made a video about The Truman Show? i would love to see his opinion about it

[@captainalan]

kpop is a sign of the end of something

[@processrauwill7922]

Lmao

[@CarlosVargas-jz8gl]

Like The US no longer being in control of what pop culture is?

[@captainalan]

ever since "culture creation" was a thing, "pop culture" has been lost! our God-given individuality and group identities (e.g. ethnic groups) make us likable even without cartoons and funny colored hair :D

[@ablicky8872]

@@CarlosVargas-jz8gl kpop is American pop culture, just in a different country👍

[@CarlosVargas-jz8gl]

@@ablicky8872 That doesn’t explain anything since a lot of American culture has been a thing in many different countries for decades.

[@jonaswiskari9382]

A lot of people are really interested in understanding complex technical systems, though. Sure, function, but also just solving puzzles. Something missing in the analysis here.

[@JohnDoe-xf2ke]

Jonathan please consider creating a channel on Odysee. It can automatically mirror all (past and future) videos from KZbin. I prefer to watch on Odysee, since they aren't evil and unethical like YT.

[@kingofstringz1000]

I believe his channel The Symbolic World is on Odysee. Hope that helps!

[@JohnDoe-xf2ke]

@@kingofstringz1000 It's on there, great!

[@WallsClips]

Jonathan Pageau indirectly did a symbolic explanation of the popular video game "Little Nightmares 2" here's a link to the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZylfWlrmtOJoqc

[@dlbattle100]

Do you think it would be possible to have a "story that we can live in" that doesn't actively conflict with history? That's free of false and exaggerated claims? Or is that a necessary part of a "story you can live in"?

[@hekate314]

Religious spaces can also have negative effect on someones mental health. The effect that let's say a'la pentacostal (Public exocism, singing in tongues, falling down, laughter ect) shit that still is going on strong in Catholic Church has on people can deeply scar inner life. There are no safe spaces right now. Everywhere is madness.

[@ALLHEART_]

11:55

[@ernsthaugust23]

Wow!

[@freyahopcroft]

Oh lordy, if Jonathan did psychedelics, his theory of god would become totally realised!! Don't be sceeerrrrd Johnathan!

[@rohanjames9282]

You and I have the same headset. 💁🏻‍♂️

[@HolographicSweater]

i am not open minded, mine has a bouncer and a strict dress code!

[@00i0ii0]

Genius

[@mythologicalmyth]

Decades of seeking entertainment and comfort with self-indulgence, individualistic greed have led to the demise of American culture. (Making music, movies, TV, food, and sex hyper-important) This, with the perceived neutralization of transcendent tangibility, fraudulent materialism, what other way could society go?

[@ferpineda5022]

If you guys are talking about video games there one you have to dive in a bit because of its lore and thats destiny

[@MeShellMaBelle]

Love you JP. So much you add in layers of meaning and understanding. Amazing. BUT totally am not understanding your idea of God as super existent and not of this world. I always like to say that if God created everything, ALL, then what are we made of? The answer must be that we’re made of “God Stuff” because there was no one before there was the one who created. There is no spot where God is not. The sciences are proving this out. Stephen Meyers new book, Return of the God Hypothesis is a must read. Look at Gregg Braden’s work at overlaying the Periodic Table to our DNA code… the beginning of every strand of DNA for everyone that has ever lived spells out the same sentence, which I won’t spoil but you can find him here on KZbin. “super existent” seems to deny the incarnation and how that brought us into the divine nature … again …toward a pre-fall relationship …almost but not quite??? Not totally sure.

[@gmjsimmons]

Oddly enough this way of discussing Christianity at the meaning level becomes an apologetic within itself. Kind of like C.S. Lewis speaking to the 21st century.

[@jf8908]

Time really is a flat circle huh

[@christianlacroix5430]

First.

[@cuteasxtreme]

First reply how bout that

[@lisaonthemargins]

@@cuteasxtreme first reply on a reply how bout that

[@Krentiles]

Damn

[@cuteasxtreme]

@@lisaonthemargins nice!

[@johnbuckner2828]

@@lisaonthemargins reply….infinity! 😀

[@highpriest8571]

i heard you say you have no hope in the short term. Salvation is now and God is Now etc etc. so much of the bible lessons is of victory in the now .

[@questioneverything55]

It is highly doubtful to me that a person reading what Jesus said about the afterlife would come to this odd philosophical Heaven - that you are sort of absorbing into God like Brahma or "theosis" as the Eastern Church likes to call it, almost Hindu or Buddhist like in many respects.

[@JohnSmith-uu5ov]

Some times I feel like I'm living on Noah's ark, but at least on Noah's ark the animals would have been more sane, so think Noah's ark full of crazy clowns, Captain Spaulding and IT, but at least they seemed rational.

[@TRLgoodvibesdotcom]

Life cycles.

[@madlynx1818]

You CAN use science to quantify what is valuable and how people could live best both individually within their own psyche and our inevitable communities. It would be called a value system. Christianity is a good one as capitalism is a good system however much both have been misused.

[@micahmueller5186]

What is the system you are using to judge systems?

[@createyourpattern2773]

Algorithm

[@veilofreality]

"We can talk as long as you don't challenge my assumption that in a gazzilion years, rocks turned into people."

[@redeemedchannel5580]

Have we established that the “technical description” of Darwinism is even true? How do you differentiate the narrative from what the “science” actually indicates. It just seems like you’re dancing around the real question. Either it’s true or it isn’t.

[@redeemedchannel5580]

@Cy Benevento Hi Cy, I think there are some major scientific hurdles to overcome prior to considering macroevolution to be an explanation for the diversity of life we observe. If it’s true, fine but I don’t think it’s been established and has objectively been rife with fraud. It is a cleaver story however..

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

@@redeemedchannel5580 What Cy Benevento said is 100% on point... Science does not produce truths but discourses, like philosophy of science (from the likes of Popper) points out. Science starts with axioms that are never self-evident, therefore it will always be circular, like all logic, and therefore create nice dogmas, narratives.

[@brianmac4359]

Love pagaeu but what an incredibly bland interview. Softballs only, at least 30 minutes in.

[@pontification7891]

Must say that a few of the last interviews were indeed quite bland; specifically the one with Gospel Simplicity, although I love both of them. You just can’t run on super intense mode constantly. Still véry thankful for all his effort; God bless them all.

[@daniel9000]

Imagine Tarzan playing with letter blocks, each block made a sound, he put a few together and it sounded out (GOD) he was so excited he had to build another and it sounded out (WORD) he was puzzled by the second one so he gave it to (GOD) and that’s when the WORD became GOD! he went around putting a GOD given WORD off on everything else and the people began to worship it. Next thing you know the Word God had orchestrated a scenery and drawing pictures to communicate became a thing of the past! God the father was the Word, he was good for Mother Earth! And now...Here we are today! The father (ABCDEF) had a son (abcdef) and they both had the power of the (Holy Ghost) spiritual word that manifested the numbers. alpha and omega, alphabet and number. The son was rejected, but later the people came to accept him for with the sons letters came speed writing. Consciousness; conducted-science-adventurous-awareness (T t word? Father son Holy Ghost) cross is the sword stands for the words in your head you live and die by. Guard your mind with a crown of thorns. 10 simple commandments 1-thou shalt not have any other Gods before me (nothing comes before your ABC’s and 123’s) 2-thou shalt not make unto the any graven images (don’t worship idols statues and carvings they will not provide, your ABC’s and 123’s do, don’t let that confuse you) 3- thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy Gods name in vain (only a fool hates to learn) 4- remember the sabbath day, to keep it Holy (you will need time to put this all together in your head) 5- honor thy father and thy mother (Happy parents lead a happy house hold) 6- Thou shalt not murder (No one learns a lesson from the grave) 7- thou shalt not commit adultery (a child with divided parents is divided within) 8- thou shalt not steal (when you get what you wanted you’ll find it’s not what you really want at all) 9-Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor (it’s a lesson you can avoid) 10- thou shalt not covet (What one sees isn’t always what it seems) “The God of all Mankind comes from the spirit within them which they transformed into the Word giving it a separate body to lead them in the world in which they exist” As a child we learned to read word for word without any comprehension of the words that we read but when we learn to understand those words we came to developed a comprehension giving root to a God of our understanding only because God teaches from within the word that we read giving him the power to sculpt our minds as we learned to believe in him. In the beginning was the word when we came to know the word we came to know God. We live in a parallel universe where two worlds take place at once, one is the physical world the other is a spiritual world. The almighty word is the God that we worship in both of those worlds. Man can make his on rules in the physical world but Jesus came to establish a kingdom in the spiritual world giving man a light to a greater power. Whats good and evil in the spiritual world will be what is good and evil in the physical world. In the word is the knowledge of God and in him is the fruit of life. Love the Word the Lord your God with all your heart your soul and your mind. Alpha and Omega/Alphabet and Number Lord you say and I do it’s your word it’s not mine and I know in the end when everything is said and done again I’m just another steak in the ground (t) And they called the old Bible the “Word of God” and in it was the truth. Jesus walks on water is a parable for making sure he is out right understood. Very clear when he speaks not shallow I walk on water when I’m talking to you so there is no confusion. There are two ships of people you find on this earth. Explorers and Pirates The explorer follows the spirit of knowledge the pirate goes hunting for all treasures. Explores set freedom abound so it can return a Pirate chains a pet and becomes one to. The winner will be the ship that takes over the one that comes swinging around the sun. The Word is God because God is energy, the Word is a recording of energy that was designed by copying a sound wave made visible in order to be read, written and understood. Once the energy was made visible it gave the ability to study it, change it and control it. The understanding that it gave was the knowledge of God (the understanding of energy). With the knowledge of God, beings where given the ability to alter energy and transform one state of energy to another, just like the sound wave you look at on paper and hear when its spoken out loud. God (energy) made man in his image. The energy of a being took the Word (energy of God) of a sound wave and created man. The energy put into the word "man" transformed a beast (living energy) into a living soul allowing it to have its own purpose in another state of being. All because the sound wave said it was so and man believed in the word because the word was God. So the beast was transformed to man like these very words (Gods) where made visible, even though it’s a sound wave and it can be read, written and understood in another state of being. God is the magic of energy. The harp of God formed the fathers word and with it he rules over Mother Nature ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ -And ROOTED numbers ‪0123456789‬ The son abcdefghijklmnopqrs(t)uvwxyz Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

[@callunaherissonne662]

Thank you @daniel ashley, that was a fascinating and expansive exploration for my imagination. What path have you trodden to reach the trig point that gives you that perspective, if you don't mind me asking?

[@daniel9000]

I was confused in life, I was tired of the he said she said and what others believed and all the rumors. so I decided to sit down with the Bible fully determined that if there was a God and it was in the Bible and that I would believe in him and put my trust in him that I was going to find out what i was really putting my trust in if it was the last thing I did on this earth. I started reading and studying listening translating troubleshooting the words people and actions to find reason in order to learn the language (parables) of the stories. today with a sound mind and love in god the spirit and word I learn the truth... love the lord the word your god with all your heart soul and mind because the word your god made it all in a word making life a possibly. A sound mind of understanding. God is a parable to Word like playing match. A+A match. I put my trust in the word that they will lay in the path straight and narrow carrying me where I need to go as a result of the trail of decisions I laid.

[@daniel9000]

Another parable heaven=space / heaven on earth=space on earth/ when you die and go to heaven you die and go to space. Wine=water /distilled water Jesus turn water into distilled water distilled water goes down like wine the wine that gives life /the wine of life is clean water it turns to blood and gives life on earth/ the words shared over a clean glass of water with Jesus is intoxicating to the spirit of joy and happiness. It pretty deep. A blind man could not read these words teach him to believe in the words and to read and he will see these words give meaning and life they are the spirit in the flesh.

[@daniel9000]

Preacher a smooth talker for some money a teacher finds reward in you learning something. Look at his shoes. Seeking admiration for advantage. Push push push more than one man long enough one stand up say I die two write a tail them 11 take the book and run with the story make it a book add the truth to it. Jesus Christ took the preacher’s Bible and finished it, went and got on his throne. Where did it come from where did it go? The moral of the Bible it clarity the spirit is the righteous ruler of humanity and to betray what the heart knows is right and go in the way of the teachings of man would lead to corruption. Men are trees all the tails that are written are absorbed and creat a universal existence. Jesus spoke of the miracles that his father could produce. If you ask for bread will man give you a rock? No because a rock is not bread. The bushel of fire a vision. In thought you sit and look at the camp fire and the spirit in you tells you the answer you seek. What do I need to do tomorrow. You think and it dawns on you ohhh I need to wash my clothes. That was the spirit of truth that come soon you. Or you sit and wonder how you will solve something you are preying on a solution the solution is the word and it is God. Jesus heals that’s right no man on earth does what abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz does he’s the son of the father harp of God ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ he is the miracle you don do it without him you are is dog but your reward is in fulfilling his will. Father Zeus tell his story how he wants to because that’s what all of y’all do you don’t get him because y’all shallow and e don’t get y’all half the time. He is before and ahead of time but man thinks he knows better with is double minded ways. See it all but can they feel it? 2 Peter 2:12 King James Version 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; He is firm with sincerity Let the word speak for its self in spiritual presence. NatzionTnoiztaN ;Definition not a noise I live on a mountain Zeus : not available T Zeus I’m on Top not I noise The Zeus top of the nation (son-t ; you Get me?) Natzi me not nazi me t zeus de word TNTNT Dynamite -TNaTzionTnoizTaNT- TNT have noise? The word is a sculpture you have your built blocks that each have A meaning, you take them and put them together seed and bloom new word, the new fruit produced comes from the power and energy of the foundation of the building blocks. A letter is just like a word in a sentence break down the word know spirit vested, righteousness or unrighteousness. word more letters in the word the more the meaning sculpture=scul pt ure= skull put picture. combos break down to slang before teachings became advanced more advanced. Egypt adopted the spirit of animals first pictur power letter word story God Jesus life. Texas (text as) LeonardoaroyaLeadereagleMountianwheyeyzionTnoizyeyehwnaitnuoMelgaeredaeLayoraodranoeL Top word sentence read forward backwards the same cross in center sea divided fish I left fish I right -Leonardo a royal leader eagle mountain why eye zion t noisy eye how nait n u o melgaeredael lay or a raod ran noel. Leonardo da Vinci was inspired to sculpture word by Michelangelo which probably gave birth to a new language that the Bible history was later translated over to giving it a more solid spiritual moral meaning. Envisioning the future sculpting a Reality for everyone that gave enlightenment of the truth. That de word is de ultimate God. Thez A father and thez a son have a word and a sword each like a king in ez mind.