The Intercession of the Saints

[@Jwarrior123]

"Okay, so what's going on here?" With your eyes closed, you can know immediately it's Dr. Pitre 😀

[@NTNG13]

Also "this is so important!"

[@robertryan2542]

I love these videos. Are they in podcast form as when I am at work l can't look at videos. God bless. From Ireland 🇮🇪

[@jamesmonahan9408]

i love them as well. Can't get enough of this knowledge.

[@bhgtree]

💯👍

[@jaikelr]

Great idea to have them in podcast format.

[@peterbrookes3824]

Can you just listen to the sound on the video ?

[@christygarcia4843]

SoundCloud has them

[@gemmabienGo4100]

Very inspiring. Thank you Dr. Pitre🙂

[@aron1193]

I keep looking for scripture for prayer of the saints and this is the only video I've found to explain it in a biblical way.

[@randycarson9812]

The catacombs of Rome were constructed over a period of several centuries beginning in the second century AD and ending around the fifth century AD. In the catacombs, there are many inscriptions left by the early Christians. Here are a few examples: "Peter and Marcellinus, may you live in God." (Catacomb of Priscilla) "Peter, pray for Victor." (Catacomb of Callixtus) "Lawrence, remember your sister Fabiana." (Catacomb of Domitilla) "Remember me, Ursus, in your prayers, as you also wish to be remembered." (Catacomb of St. Sebastian) These inscriptions, among others found in the catacombs, provide insights into the early Christian belief in the communion of saints and the practice of requesting the prayers of departed believers, including martyrs and saints. They offer tangible evidence of the spiritual devotion and piety of early Christians and their belief in the ongoing intercessory role of the faithful departed.

[@darrellperez1029]

Father Alar

[@johnduncan7484]

In the same way, The Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but THE SPIRIT HIMSELF INTERCEDES (hyperentynchanei) for us through wordless groans. - Romans 8:26

[@Braingrandchild]

The selection from Maccabees II makes me think of Christ with Moses and Elijah in the Transfiguration.

[@randycarson9812]

The saints are alive, not dead. (Mk 12:26-27) The saints are aware of our prayers and needs. (cf. Lk 15:10, Heb 12:1, Rev 5:8) The saints are righteous, and their prayers are effective. (cf. Rev 21:27, Jam 5:16) Scripture is silent on the question of asking saints to pray for us which is NOT necromancy*. Therefore, we are free to do so.

[@kiryu-chan577]

Dr Pitre is my favorite teacher on KZbin

[@leonardoespiritu2174]

Same here. DR. PITRE'S THE BEST🙏❤️👍

[@johnduncan7484]

In the same way, The Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but THE SPIRIT HIMSELF INTERCEDES (hyperentynchanei) for us through wordless groans. - Romans 8:26

[@earlfelise2394]

I continue to learn so much those who “Exemplify the Virtue of Faith” and I thank you for your Evangelization and helping me on my journey and the race set before me with perseverance with the cloud of witnesses cheering me on. God bless you.

[@patallenhurst3043]

I always thought about the race as running a 5k marathon. The chariot race makes a lot of sense. Ty for this explanation.

[@ln1186]

Thank Dr. Pitre. Your explanations are so helpful as a read the Bible.

[@jenelms905]

Fantastic. Peace and God bless your ministry!

[@HumanDignity10]

This is the first time I have heard the explanation. This is wonderful!

[@eblsymk]

Romans 8:33-35 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 1 Timothy 2:5-6 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. Acts 14:14-18 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15 “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 16 In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17 Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18 Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

[@1957val]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. God is certainly using you for his glory.

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:26 💭 *Hebrews 12 follows the catalog of Old Testament saints in chapter 11, emphasizing the image of the cloud of witnesses.* 01:49 📜 *The author of Hebrews suggests that although Old Testament saints have passed away, they still surround believers like a supportive cloud.* 03:53 📖 *The Catholic belief in the intercession of saints finds its Old Testament foundation in 2 Maccabees, where deceased figures continue to pray for and communicate with the living.* 06:10 🏃‍♂️ *Hebrews uses the metaphor of a race, illustrating believers' perseverance in faith surrounded by the saints of old as spectators and encouragers.* 08:13 🥇 *Christ is depicted as the ultimate example of perseverance and victory, encouraging believers to follow the path of faith with determination.*

[@JJ-cw3nf]

We’ve got a lot of helpers up there

[@j21zazpe]

Hebrews 11:35 References the mother from chapter 7 of second Maccabees.

[@uteme]

Thank you, Dr. Pitre.

[@mazikode]

God bless you Dr Pitre..this is amazing teaching as always. I am so thankful for your chanel

[@GMAGini]

These videos are a real blessing to aid us in understanding our Judeo- Chistian history, tradition, and theology of our Catholic Faith.

[@jessicaangeles1122]

Truly appreciate this spiritual enrichment. Thank you & God bless.

[@errolugdamina815]

As the Old Testament great heroes were really alive, the New Testament Christian Saints were alive in heaven as witnesses.

[@hervedavidh4117]

GREAT !

[@SECPETE1]

We also find in the O.T. a clear basis for the O.T. Saints (souls) that will be living or present in heaven in Isaiah 38:9-11 & Ezekiel 26:19-20 when they warn about those who will be cut off from or not dwell in the "land of the living" after their death. Sheol: In the New Testament, “Sheol” was translated by the Greek word Hadēs, which likewise denotes the underworld of the dead (cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:27; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9). Sheol was a state for both the evil and the righteous while they awaited the Redeemer (Gen 44:31; Ps 9:17; Luke 16:22-26). Hahn, S., ed. (2009). In Catholic Bible Dictionary (p. 838).

[@essejbardelas9249]

Always fascinating about the Bible insight by Dr Pitre

[@mec325]

Psalms 118:8 Better to seek refuge in the Lord Than to trust in man; Men can also be wrong in their teachings, intentionally or not, only God knows ! You may read what I wrote above, it's totally biblical. I do not seek to debate with anyone, all I want is to proclaim the TRUTH for those who love it just like me. Be vigilant my friend.

[@d.h.5407]

@@mec325 The Truth is Christ, who established His Church to bring the Good News and His Mercy to the whole world. Here we are - welcome! Dr. Pitre is an esteemed, faithful teacher - learn from him.

[@michaelibach9063]

@@mec325 yes, men like you, can be wrong in their teachings. You will know them by their fruits - Jesus Christ Which is why Catholics look to the Saints and not to men like yourself.

[@mec325]

@@d.h.5407 The true Church of God is that which obeys His commandments according to (Exodus 20, KJV). The Church of God is not the one that cries Lord, Lord while having only outward appearances, it is the one that loves God. Jesus said: (John 14:15) “If you love me, keep my commandments”. The 2nd and 4th commandments are not honored in the Catholic Church and yet Jesus said: '' For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law '',... (Math.5:18). He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).

[@kyrptonite1825]

The Catholic Church does obey the Ten Commandments. 1. The Commandment against idolatry is not broken. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers ...“ This verse is condemning idolatry, or making idols, graven images. Not religious imagery or icons. The verse clearly says not to worship them, or serve them, so this verse is not about having religious iconography, but about making idols to worship. And Catholics don’t worship icons. We may pray in front of an icon, but we are not actually praying to the icon, we are praying to what the statue represents. We are using it as a tool in worship to focus on God, but the statue is not the object of worship. We don’t believe the statue is alive nor do we pray to it. Same thing with bowing, bowing isn’t intrinsically an act of worship, we aren’t bowing to the statue, but what it represents. Or even kissing a statue, we kiss it like we would kiss a picture of a family member, to show love to what the picture represents, but we don’t believe the picture is actually God. So we aren’t bowing or kissing in an intrinsically idolatrous way. And yes, these icons do help, I can say so myself, seeing a statue of the Crucified Christ in front of me really puts the Image of Christ’s Sacrifice into my mind and helps me focus. Or a statue of a smiling Christ really helps me to focus on His Love and Mercy for me. In Exodus God even Commands religious icons to be created: Exodus 25:18 “And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover.“ Furthermore, we may even put up incense in front of an image or something, in the same way you might put flowers on a grave to honor family, or you might put flowers in front of a picture of a family member, we are putting incense in front of a picture to honor the person the picture represents in an act of love, not actually for the picture. And sometimes, like how God says certain mountains are holy, or certain Ground is holy, we might consider an icon holy because of what the icon represents, but we don’t consider that icon worthy of worship, because it isn’t alive or God, it is simply that, an icon. We don’t pray to, worship, or how in a worshipping way towards icons, so we simply aren’t committing idolatry. As for praying to Saints, Saints are actual Living People (In Christ), who we ask to pray for us. And this video goes over praying to Saints and the Biblical precedence for it. Praying is not intrinsically worship, there are different types of prayer, Thanksgiving, Adoration, etc. Asking someone for their prayers or intercession is not an act of worship. And the Church uses the term “invoke” the Saints in our prayers. Protestants also mix up Catholic veneration, or honor, of Saints, and worship. We don’t worship the Saints, we honor or venerate them, but we only worship God, because the Catholic Church believes in no idolatry. The problem with iconography though was also a heresy way back in the Middle Ages or something when people went around smashing icons and now people are believing that stuff again.

[@francissweeney7318]

The Vatican was not separated from Rome until 1929. Try again.

[@seamusmcinnes2678]

Seems like a weak argument to pray to any one other that God the Father through His only Son, Jesus the Christ. Seems to me that most catholics worship the church, not the Father.

[@christineabercrombie7316]

It said in the Bible brother why do you take your brother to court? Pray to the saints they shall intercede for you.

[@cliffbarber1642]

Wonderful explanation. Thank you Dr. Pitre. I wonder is there evidence for the intercession of the Saints in the New Testament?

[@kyrptonite1825]

Rev 5:8

[@cliffbarber1642]

@@kyrptonite1825 Thank you for that reference!

[@kyrptonite1825]

@@cliffbarber1642 no problem!

[@irenecastelino8827]

Thank you Dr Pitre

[@ninjason57]

Im not a protestant but I just cant help but feel like there's a leap between the saints supporting believers in heaven and believers praying to the saints for them to intercede to God on our behalf. Can anyone clear that up for me?

[@tonymayorga3175]

Yes, praying to saints isn’t biblical. Angels can hear us but no where does it show that we are to pray and worship anyone other than God. Why pray to creatures when all our praise should go to God?

[@proxile_]

@@tonymayorga3175 this is such a bad assumption and rebuttal

[@the_abandoned_monastery7218]

Yes, the Church deems it so; therefore it is, since they receive revelation from God. Our prayers are less efficacious in the state of venial sin and pretty much unheard in the state of mortal sin. Our intercession of the saints is a way to allow a prayer to be more efficacious because it comes from someone else who is perfectly sanctified in heaven.

[@MoniqueChatenay]

Dr Brant, I found your videos two weeks ago. I am a Protestant and want to go back to my Catholic faith when I was young. I am learning a lot from your videos as I didn't understood the Catholic faith. I have a question, can you advise me a good Catholic Bible to read? I would appreciate your answer. God bless you. 🙏

[@theyoungrider5449]

RSV-CE, NAB-CE, ignatius bible, word on fire bible

[@usssanjacinto1]

Does scripture specically say to pray to saints so they will intercede for you? Did Paul ever say to pray to Moses to intercede for us?

[@stevenirizarry9427]

Does scripture specifically say to live by the Bible alone? No.

[@jsphfalcon]

Yes. But here is the contradiction. In Deuteronomy and Leviticus, you are not to seek after necromancers or ways of the dead. First off nothing is saying you are to pray to the deceased saint even if they are aware. Secondly, this puts into question whether Maccabees and Judith are inspired if they contradict the Torah. Christ is not dead. He arose is still alive.

[@darrellperez1029]

There's ALOT more that contradicts the Torah. Jesus Himself contradicts it. The mistake you made was saying summoning. We dont. Thats forbidden.

[@simonkhananyah5318]

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living

[@bgorg1]

I agree, but there is nothing in this video that shows a mechanism to communicate with and between these living saints. Using Hebrews 11 to the beginning of 12 appears a stretch to say we can communicate with and receive intercession from these souls no longer in this creation. Perhaps they have that burden or gift, but I don’t see scriptural evidence. Even 2Mac was a dream recollection, and it isn’t clear this happened. Just don’t stretch the scriptures so far to look desperate to your skeptics.

[@R.C.425]

thank you

[@connieloftus4954]

awesome presentation. We need more persons like Dr Pitre in all catholic churches in usa

[@joshuarivera2422]

My understanding is that the cloud is not that they are actually in a cloud watching us, but that we are surrounded by the all the testimonies from this people. It would be like me saying that I have a cloud of smart people surrounding me in my workplace. I am not saying that they are actually in a cloud, but that there are smart people in my workplace. This can be confirmed with Hebrew 11, because what Hebrew 11 says is that all this witnesses believed in God only by faith, but we on the other hand have faith plus multiple testimonies of witnesses (cloud) that we can refer to that help us make our faith even stronger.

[@masterchief8179]

But no one believes that the saints are actually sitting in a cloud. Please, just please. We Catholics, Eastern Orthodoxs, Oriental Orthodoxs and Assyrians of the East (pretty much everyone save Protestants, and even so some Protestants follow the beliefs of the authentic apostolic churches) believe that the saints are actually alive in Christ, not dead (John 11, 25-26). And they are not “sleeping” until the second “parusia”: they are actually and truly testifying - presently - to the salvific route of the Church Militant, those who are here on earth (= we, us). Scriptures are pretty, pretty eloquent here, I’d say. Besides, those in Hebrews 11 are precisely the saints of the Old Testament. The description is exactly what the author intended: to describe the “communio sanctorum”, and by that he pointed to those of the Hebrew heritage that came before the audience and lived heroic lives and must be saints in heaven. Chapters were non-existent in the Bible was written, therefore to say Hebrews 11 was “opposed” to Hebrews 12 is even more nonsensical, brother. But it’s very strange to say they have been saved by anything even remotely similar to “faith alone” as in the Protestant dogma, by which works and deeds are not part of the salvific process whatsoever. Catholics say the works of charity are integral to salvation, not apart from salvation, because true faith express itself through love (Gl 5, 6) and faith apart from works is dead (James 2, 17). Please compare the passage of Hebrews 11, 17-19 with James 2, 21-22 and please BE REALLY HONEST if your Protestant interpretation makes sense: _“By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead,and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death”_ (Hebrews 11, 17-19). _“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?”_ (James 2, 21-22). Can you honestly squeeze out the “faith alone” example on Hebrews 11, like by the faith of Abraham he offered Isaac meaning by “sola fide”, if the very inerrant Scritpure uses that EXACT example to say it was not by faith alone, but by faith working together with works? It’s not me making typology or theological arguments, I’m grabbing your PRECISE example to see if it proves your Protestant lenses or the view of the Catholic Church. And you will know Truth, and truth will set you free (John 8, 32).

[@joshuarivera2422]

@@masterchief8179 I think you went completely off the point I was making. What I only said is that a cloud of witness does not mean they are actually in a cloud, but that we are sorrounded by all this witnesses testimonies. Example, me saying that I have a sea of evidence against someone, does not mean an actual sea, just that I have a bunch of evidence.

[@masterchief8179]

@@joshuarivera2422 And I’ve explained that their testimony is actual and present through the course/ route of the salvific process of ours, so it’s not a past documentation of historical distant evidence, a “moral example” - as if I say “I have the witness of Aristotle in my favor”. That would be entirely antithetical to the text’s both internal and contextual coherence. That and other inconsistencies I tried to address, my friend. From Brazil 🇧🇷with love.

[@joshuarivera2422]

@@masterchief8179 I am really struggling to understand your point. Sorry my brother, you might be too sophisticated for me. Might want to make your point simpler for me.

[@masterchief8179]

@@joshuarivera2422 Sorry, I didn’t want to be mean. I only tried to show the correct exegesis. The “only by faith” part, meaning the way Protestants squeeze Protestantism out of Biblical verses (even mental words that are not in the texts), maybe led to my posting. God bless!

[@iqgustavo]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation spanish: 00:26 📜 *El capítulo 12 de Hebreos sirve como una declaración de resumen luego del catálogo de santos del Antiguo Testamento del capítulo 11, enfocándose en la imagen de la nube de testigos.* 01:49 💭 *Aunque los santos del Antiguo Testamento han fallecido, el autor de Hebreos sugiere que siguen vivos para Dios y rodean a los santos en la tierra como una nube de testigos.* 03:53 📖 *La base del concepto católico de la intercesión de los santos se encuentra en el libro de 2 Macabeos, que describe a figuras fallecidas que siguen interesándose y orando por su pueblo.* 06:10 🏃‍♂️ *El autor de Hebreos utiliza la metáfora de una carrera para ilustrar cómo los creyentes deben perseverar en la fe, rodeados y animados por la "nube de testigos" de los santos del Antiguo Testamento.* 08:13 🥇 *Jesucristo es presentado como el pionero y perfeccionador de la fe, quien completó la carrera con perseverancia y ofrece el ejemplo para los creyentes.*

[@alguien-wc5su]

Tocó soportar la publicidad

[@DarkAngel-cj6sx]

Thank you

[@francissweeney7318]

God does not depend on men to protect His Word. Your catholic arrogance is showing. Know these words Proverbs 9:10 " The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." The catholic church has altered The Lord's Word. That lack of fear is not from God.

[@srich7503]

So who wrote the book of Romans? Was that not a “man” named Paul??? Arrogance or not history cannot be hidden… History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?

[@francissweeney7318]

​@@srich7503You have no proof of your claims. The history of the catholic church is one of arrogance, suppression of the laity and disobedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ. The obscene wealth of the catholic church is testimony against it. Rome has been a city of evil from it's founding. The vatican's location in Rome is further evidence of the separation of the catholic church from God. Truly the catholic church is the great harlot of Revelation chapter 17.

[@iggyantioch]

Proof texting your way through your errant theology is boring. Again accusations of the Church being evil due to wealth or geographic location is juvenile. Do better.

[@francissweeney7318]

The prophesy in Revelation chapter 17 was given by Jesus Christ whom you disobey. It is the Will of the Father that you obey His Commandment against graven images. Every catholic church flaunts it's harlotry. Exodus 20 is God's will.

[@iggyantioch]

Vatican City is not built on seven hills, but only one: Vatican Hill, which is not one of the seven upon which ancient Rome was built. Those hills are on the east side of the Tiber river; Vatican Hill is on the west. Your biblical hermeneutic is flawed. Sounds like you read the Dave Hunt book " The woman rides the beast". Lost. Will pray for you

[@medusa210562]

I have not watched this video yet I will. But even before watching it. Can a sai.t intersess for thousands and hundreds of thousands of people?

[@Jesus.Is_King]

No. Only Jesus

[@jerryg3524]

Glad to see Dr. Pitre in a cheerful mood here. His exegesis of the passages in 2 Maccabees is great, many of us don't usually think about our Catholic belief in the intercession of our favorite saints to whom we pray all the time

[@kyrptonite1825]

Tobit 12:12 “Now when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and likewise whenever you used to bury the dead.” 2 Maccabees 15:12-16 “Now the vision was in this manner: Onias who had been high priest, a good and virtuous man, modest in his looks, gentle in his manners, and graceful in his speech, and who from a child was exercised in virtues, holding up his hands, prayed for all the people of the Jews: 13 After this there appeared also another man, admirable for age, and glory, and environed with great beauty and majesty: 14 Then Onias answering, said: This is a lover of his brethren, and of the people of Israel: this is he that prayeth much for the people, and for all the holy city, Jeremias the prophet of God. 15 Whereupon Jeremias stretched forth his right hand, and gave to Judas a sword of gold, saying: 16 Take this holy sword a gift from God, wherewith thou shalt overthrow the adversaries of my people Israel.“ Revelation 5:8 “And when he had taken it, the four living creatures(A) and the twenty-four elders(B) fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp(C) and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers(D) of God’s people.“ Sirach 48:13-14 13 “Nothing was too hard for him, and when he was dead, his body prophesied. In his life he did wonders, and in death his deeds were marvelous.“ Rev 8:4 “The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand.“ Hebrews 12:1 “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,“ Mark 12:17 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” Also, just as an extra the Jews believed in going to the graves of the Tzadikim, or righteous ones, for their intercession. And some thought it was good to pray to them, and have them “carry” their prayers to God, or intercede for them, but there was some contention, like in most doctored in Judaism where some said just to pray to God and they would carry the prayers, it’s complicated. But it’s clear Christianity shows that Apostolic Oral Tradition is clear that praying to Saints is good, or invoking them in intercessory prayer is a good term actually, and also earth Christians attest to it.

[@kyrptonite1825]

Like in most doctrines there was contention*

[@ri3m4nn]

@@kyrptonite1825 this is a gross misinterpretation of the Scriptures

[@kyrptonite1825]

@Ri3m4nn I though Protestants just rely on their own interpretation for Scripture? I’m joking but anyways, I don’t think so

[@ri3m4nn]

@@kyrptonite1825 Protestants reason together, as it is written Isaiah 1:18 "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." The Romans took tenants of Christianity and added to their Pagan Church... that's why the Catholics interpret things the way they do; it's consistent with Romans Paganism.

[@lolobabes8653]

Catholic truth...

[@cynthiax56]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@alguien-wc5su]

🎉

[@savedbygrace8337]

Romans 1:25 “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen

[@awuriefnejqwjmnwn4960]

Wait until protestants realise that they are the ones that have strayed the furthest from christs original teachinhs

[@nickdon]

This is an interesting teaching

[@mec325]

Sorry NICK but his teaching contradicts the Bible. The Apocrypha were rejected by the Jews to whom the oracles of God were entrusted. That's what the Bible says: (Romans 3:1-2).You can read what I wrote above, if you want! GBY

[@nickdon]

@@mec325 sorry pal you are wrong... His teaching didn't contradict the Bible. The canon of the Jews was not definitive and there were books that was accepted by the other communities and rejected by others..

[@paulmiller3469]

@@mec325 Anything after Deuteronomy was rejected by the Aaronic priestly class.

[@michaelibach9063]

@@mec325 the deuterocanonical‘s weren’t rejected by the Jews until well into the New Testament era by hundreds of years actually. Thus nobody cares what a bunch of Jesus denying Jews think, especially hundreds of years after Jesus gave authority to the apostles, except Protestants. Ethiopian Jews use the deuterocanonical books btw.

[@mec325]

What is definitive is that the Word cannot contradict itself.

[@francissweeney7318]

Catholic doctrine is not of God. It is the doctrine of man. Never forget that catholics changed the 10 Commandments written by God's hand to Moses. They display graven images all over their churches violating the God given Commandments thinking that all they had to do was take that commandment out of scripture.

[@hypnoticsounds1040]

I agree brother

[@srich7503]

If Catholic doctrine is not of God then you might think strongly about burning all your Bibles…🤷🏽‍♂ History shows us that Jesus didn't leave us a bible, the apostles didn't tell us which books belong in the bible, the church fathers never agreed on the 27 books of the NT through the 4th century, not only did they not agree but their list of would-be NT canons were GROWING during this time. So, if it wasn't the Catholic/Orthodox church that compiled the 27 books of the NT in the 5th century with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and preserved it by laboriously hand copying them over and over throughout the centuries before the invention of the printing press, the “rule of faith” for many, please tell us, show us, who did? And if this church no longer exists today, what good is the text which came forth from her if she couldn't sustain herself?

[@ilonkastille2993]

Please explain why it is in the Catholic O.T . And not in the Protestant and Jewish O.T. I think I know why but I am not sure if I am right.

[@bthongni55]

The protestant OT has 7 books fewer than the Catholic OT. Jews have no NT hence no OT. Jerusalem cannon does not include those books that were not written in Hebrew originally. When the Catholic Church decided on the Cannon of the Bible, the Jews did not yet decide on their cannon. Luther decided that his bible should follow the Jewish cannon for OT and the Catholic Cannon for NT.

[@randonlowe2905]

It's important to note on this topic that Jesus own words in Luke 24:44 make a reference to what his beliefs where in Gods Word. He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” It seems to me Jesus himself does not believe the 7 books added to the Catholic bible. I believe the Apocrypha are good to read once you have a good understanding of Gods Inspired Word but not to be treated the same as His true Word. Thats the difference in my protestant view point and the catholic view point. I actually agree with most of what he says minus there being any intercession. They clearly pray for us but in Revelation it speaks of these prayers being taken in a bowl to Jesus. This is because Jesus is our only intercessor. Just food for though. I know some will disagree with me on this lol.

[@ilonkastille2993]

@@randonlowe2905 If anything is certain , it is that there was no common canon among the jews at the time of Christ. Protestants claim we added 7 deuterocanonical books at the council of Trent 1546, in order to justify Catholic doctrinal inventions. At the Council of Rome 382, the church decided upon a canon of 46 OT books and 27 of NT books. This decision was ratified at Hippo 393, Carthage 397,419, Nicea ll 787,Florence 1442, and Trent 1546. If Catholics added the books in 1546, Luther beat us to the punch. He included them in his first German translation. They can also be found in the 1st King James Version 1611 and in the 1st Bible ever printed, The Gutenberg Bible , a century before Trent. Jesus Himself quoted from the Deuterocanonical. He was always quoting Scripture(OT) and Deuterocanonical scripture was quoted many times.

[@Howhardisittofindausernamebruh]

​@@randonlowe2905 funnily enough, your comment actually grasps the concept of saintly Intercession. In essence, the Orthodox ask the saints to pray for them. They are not a replacement for Christ, they pray to Christ.

[@randonlowe2905]

@@Howhardisittofindausernamebruh that is very true. I’ve take. A pretty deep dive into Catholicism reading Scot Hahn, Trent Hort, Brant Petre, looked into the Church Fatjers, and read some of the catechism. I’m now signed up for RCIA.

[@YenkammaNe]

WHAT IS SPECIAL ABOUT BEING A HINDU? By Francois Gautier. *Diversity in Divinity and Unity in Spirituality.* Be Your Own Messiah. 1) Believe in God ! - Aastik - Accepted 2) Don't believe in God ! - You're accepted as Nastik 3) You want to worship idols - please go ahead. You are a murti pujak. 4) You dont want to worship idols - no problem. You can focus on Nirguna Brahman. 5) You want to criticise something in our religion. Come forward. We are logical. Nyaya, Tarka etc. are core Hindu schools. 6) You want to accept beliefs as it is. Most welcome. Please go ahead with it. 7) You want to start your journey by reading Bhagvad Gita - Sure ! 8) You want to start your journey by reading Upanishads - Go ahead. 9) You want to start your journey by reading Purana - Be my guest. 10) You just don't like reading Puranas or other books. No problem my dear. Go by Bhakti tradition . ( bhakti- devotion) 11) You don't like idea of Bhakti ! No problem. Do your Karma. Be a karmayogi. 12) You want to enjoy life. Very good. No problem at all. This is Charvaka Philosophy. 13) You want to abstain from all the enjoyment of life & find God - jai ho ! Be a Sadhu, an ascetic ! 14) You don't like the concept of God. You believe in Nature only - Welcome. (Trees are our friends and Prakriti or nature is worthy of worship). 15) You believe in one God or Supreme Energy. Superb! Follow Advaita philosophy 16) You want a Guru. Go ahead. Receive gyaan. 17) You don't want a Guru.. Help yourself ! Meditate, Study ! 18) You believe in Female energy ! Shakti is worshipped. 19) You believe that every human being is equal. Yeah! You're awesome, come on let's celebrate Hinduism! "Vasudhaiva kutumbakam" (the world is a family) 20) You don't have time to celebrate the festival. Don't worry. One more festival is coming! There are multiple festivals every single day of the year. 21) You are a working person. Don't have time for religion. Its okay. You will still be a Hindu. 22) You like to go to temples. Devotion is loved. 23) You don't like to go to temples - no problem. You are still a Hindu! 24) You know that Hinduism is a way of life, with considerable freedom. 25) You believe that everything has God in it. So you worship your mother, father, guru, tree, River, Prani-matra, Earth, Universe! 26) And If you don't believe that everything has GOD in it - No problems. Respect your viewpoint. 27) "Sarve jana sukhino bhavantu " (May you all live happily) You represent this! You're free to choose, my dear Hindu! This is exactly the essence of Hinduism, all inclusive .. That is why it has withstood the test of time inspite of repeated onslaught both from within and outside, and assimilated every good aspects from everything . That is why it is eternal !!! There is a saying in Rigveda , the first book ever known to mankind which depicts the Hinduism philosophy in a Nutshell -" Ano bhadrah Krathavo Yanthu Vishwathah"- Let the knowledge come to us from every direction..

[@bthongni55]

So anything is acceptable in hinduism. Well it must be so if there is no particular Deity and no definite after life. A hindu believes in reincarnation by which he can be reborn as a snake, a monkey, a cow, etc.

[@chrisazure1624]

But where does it say we need to appeal to them directly? If it is a tradition, what is your evidence that goes back to the apostles?

[@randonlowe2905]

Amen! This is my opinion. It's important to note on this topic that Jesus own words in Luke 24:44 make a reference to what his beliefs where in Gods Word. He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” It seems to me Jesus himself does not believe the 7 books added to the Catholic bible. I believe the Apocrypha are good to read once you have a good understanding of Gods Inspired Word but not to be treated the same as His true Word. Thats the difference in my protestant view point and the catholic view point. I actually agree with most of what he says minus there being any intercession. They clearly pray for us but in Revelation it speaks of these prayers being taken in a bowl to Jesus. This is because Jesus is our only intercessor. Just food for though. I know some will disagree with me on this lol.

[@leonardobarbieri1292]

How to conciliate intercession of the saints in the Old Testamento with the doctrine that Christ descent into hell?

[@zenuno6936]

People in purgatory can intercede, the place where the saints were before Christ's passion was not the hell of the damned.

[@leonardobarbieri1292]

@@zenuno6936 Well... maybe. I have to look at this deeply.

[@zenuno6936]

@@leonardobarbieri1292 For example, when Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man who went to hell, the rich man appeals to him and Abraham, showing that Abraham and Lazarus were somewhere where they could be appealed to and intercede (just not to the damned, because no intercession avails them).

[@JasonPaulMusic]

@@zenuno6936 I was just going to ask this because logically saints in purgatory would be able to intercede too (are they in the nose bleed section?) This means even before Sheol/prison was opened by Christ on Holy Saturday the Old Testament saints still interceded on behalf of the living from hades. I wonder if Saul calling up Samuel’s intercession from the dead via sorcery is connected and illustrative of the wrong way to request intercession.

[@leonardobarbieri1292]

@@zenuno6936 Good point.

[@donhaddix3770]

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 New International Version 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord; because of these same detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you.

[@kayvelazquez4618]

Nobody comes to the father unless they come to the son first and belive in him in there hearts❤

[@darrellperez1029]

And how can we get to the son?

[@Howhardisittofindausernamebruh]

Amen

[@temporaryaccount5307]

Can anyone show me where any “saint” prayed to a dead one for intercession? Since I know you’ll next say “they’re spiritually alive,” maybe u can show me where the remaining apostles prayed to “Saint James” after martyred? Can anyone show me where one needs to exhibit any “heroic sanctity” in order to become a saint? Can anyone show me where Jesus said anyone but Him can intercede at all?

[@mec325]

No one will ever answer any of those questions you just described in your righteous comment. Those who may seek to contradict you will have no choice but to turn to apocryphal writings which go so far as to deny the very words of Jesus. Jesus himself said: (John 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven except he who came down from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. These so-called doctors of theology should know that praying to the dead is impure and odious necromentia to God. The story of King Saul and his invocation of the prophet Samuel should also be part of his teachings, but of course getting discredited by the Catholic Church would be nothing profitable for prestige.

[@temporaryaccount5307]

@@bn142 I agree, but I’m afraid I don’t understand ur point.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

@@mec325 Elijah ascended into Heaven and Revelations 4:4 describes the 24 Elders of Heaven. Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus/disciples after they had been dead for centuries. Catholics believe Christ conquered death so that we might have eternal life. Where that eternal life is depends on us. For Catholics/Orthodox when we die only our body decomposes and the most important part of a human being our soul faces Immediate Judgement for Heaven/Hell or Purgatory.

[@nickdon]

@@mec325 you don't know what are you talking about

[@d.h.5407]

The first thing is that the Lord gave Peter, the Rock, the keys of heaven and earth. What he binds on earth is bound in heaven; what he binds in heaven is bound on earth. Peter wields Christ’s authority to make rules and definitions, including those about knowing those in heaven.

[@mec325]

For those who believe more in the word of God instead of relying on so called specialist theologians, here is what the apostle Paul said in: (1 Thessalonians 4 :13-18, KJV) 13 But I would NOT TO BE IGNORANTt, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (DEAD), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep (DEAD) in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD, SHALL NOT PREVENT them which are asleep (DEAD). 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. The SECOND COMING OF THE LORD HAS NOT HAPPENED YET! Friends, stop listening to these so-called experts and read the Bible for yourself. God gave King Solomon wisdom like no one else on earth in his day and this is what he wrote: (Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they shall die: but THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANY THING, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Jesus himself said: (John 3:13) No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. GBYA

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

Why do you worship the Bible, an inanimate object? You shouldn't have a relationship with a book. You can't put it on the witness stand and ask it what it meant in verse whatever. No doubt the Bible the word of God which the Catholic Church gave the world in 387AD has a role but not as important as the Word of God which is Christ who is alive. The Church came before the Bible.

[@paulmiller3469]

2 Peter 3:15-16 - "And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures."

[@paulmiller3469]

So, here, I'm sure you have your interpretation of that passage, and we have ours... Who is correct? Who is the authority? What is the pillar and foundation of Truth? (If you think it's the Bible, you might want to see what the Bible itself says about that in 1 Timothy 3:15.)

[@jerome8950]

The Bible frequently describes death using the word "sleep" BECAUSE of the striking external resemblance between the process of dying and the process of falling asleep. It is an example of the use of phenomenological language which means describing something based on how it appears externally or to the naked eye. The aim of the use of the word "sleep" was not meant to tell us WHERE people would be located after they die, neither was meant to tell us WHAT they doing. Therefore, the use of the word "sleep" to describe death is NOT proof that christians can't go to heaven immediately after the death of their physical bodies here on earth

[@mec325]

@@jerome8950 Anyone can comment without even giving biblical references. Why did God give us his word if we don't even want to consider his teachings ! The Bible repeats over and over again that the dead will be raised only at the end, (1 Cor. 15:51-52; Acts 2:34), why twist the WORD of God to stubbornly want to defend a religion at all cost ? (James 4:6b). ''The dead = ''Nekros'' in Christ'' according to (1 Thess. 4:16). "Nekros" = One who breathed his last, lifeless, deceased, gone, who lost his life, inanimate. '' I will not argue over opinions (Rom.14:1).

[@Sit_tight_Ubu]

We pray direct to God via Jesus only

[@billyhomeyer7414]

Well then stop trolling Catholic websites. Just go back to your Protestant church whichever of the 50,000 different sects of Protestantism you belong. Better yet, become Catholic. Yes I know we have a heretic leader but he refuses to sit on the Throne of Peter.

[@alistairkentucky-david9344]

Are you saying that when we pray to God, we pray ONLY in Christ's name? Or that we pray ONLY to God? The former is true but the latter is false.

[@billyhomeyer7414]

Oh, and Jesus is God. He is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Once you become Catholic you can confess your sins and receive the Real Body and Blood of Our Lord for whoever eats My Body and drinks My Blood - may - receive eternal life. Plus, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Luther knew this as a priest, but he needed to have sex with a nun so, there ya go.

[@flearhcp]

Hey Joe, if that is the case, there might not be a need for ys to pray for one another here on earth.

[@DarkAngel-cj6sx]

Have you ever asked your friends to pray for you?