The Italian Citizenship 1948 Rule & 1948 Cases In-Depth Discussion With Two Italian Lawyers

Italian Citizenship Podcast EP 37:
The Italian Citizenship 1948 Rule & 1948 Cases In-Depth Discussion With Two Italian Lawyers
In this episode of the Italian Citizenship Podcast, hosts Marco Permunian, an Italian citizenship attorney and founder of Italian Citizenship Assistance (ICA), along with dual citizen and content creator, ‪@RafaelDiFuria‬ as well as special guest, Italian attorney, Andrea Permunian discuss the topic of how to get Italian citizenship through a 1948 case. As a Andrea regularly represents Italian Citizenship Assistance's clients in the courts of Rome and successfully challenges the 1948 rule on a regular basis. 1948 Italian citizenship cases are not uncommon in the field of getting Italian citizenship through an ancestor.
00:00 Intro
00:50 Introducing Andrea Permunian
02:50 What exactly is a 1948 case?
04:00 1912 Italian citizenship law
06:47 Do you need to have a denial from a consulate before going to court
07:28 What ancestor needs to be born before 1948
08:09 Do you have to go to the court in Rome
12:54 Is it possible or advisable to start a legal proceeding in a different area?
15:09 Will the attorneys for the ministry participate in the trial?
16:35 Who is going to pay the fees
17:46 How many cases are you currently working on
19:05 Examples of legal cases
22:00 How does a legal case look like from start to finish
25:51 What comes after the final judgment
28:00 Is it common for final judgments to be challenged
28:57 Do personal circumstances matter for the outcome of the case?
32:30 Filing a motion for an early hearing
For help with the Italian citizenship process and more information about Italian Citizenship Assistance visit ICA's website:
ItalianCitizenshipAssistance.com
To contact Italian Attorney Marco Permunian or Andrea Permunian and their team of dual-citizenship experts and attorneys you can use the contact form on the Italian Citizenship Assistance website:
ItalianCitizenshipAssistance.com
Also to see more from ‪@RafaelDiFuria‬ about life in Italy and life as a dual citizen check out his KZbin channel:
/ rafaeldifuria
#italianamericancitizenship #italiancitizenship #italiandualcitizenship #dualItaliancitizenship #iloveitaly #juresanguinis #jussanguinis

[@salvatoreemma]

Hi, gentlemen, This discussion was truly eye-opening, easy to comprehend and valuable to me. I will be in touch soon.

[@Madirose02]

Thank you so much. I have 4 Italian born great grandparents, I can’t wait to pursue this!

[@mr.dsproductreviewchannel]

Thank You Very Much for these Videos. They are Extremely Informative.

[@sweetbriararts]

Thank you so much for making these videos. I am so grateful to you and will be reaching out to this law firm!

[@kitkat4329]

This video is so helpful. Grazie mille!

[@BradWillmanJ]

Grazie mille tutti

[@tingtaiji]

Need to do an update for this video and add a section for those with minor issues.

[@chrisfrost7469]

Great, informative video! Since this video was recorded now regional courts take 1948 cases. In my case my ancestor was born in Piedmont. I am interested to know will this change of location affect the proceeding e.g. speed it up, slow it down lower or increase my chances.? Also I understand about 15% of cases are unsuccessful. What sort of reasons are cases unsuccessful?

[@royalgregor]

Is there a way to hear this podcast in Italian? Or at the very least be able to hear what the lawyer Andrea has to say without the voiceover in English? I’m bilingual but my family in Italy aren’t and as they are helping with my citizenship claim, it would helpful for them to hear his comments/suggestions etc. Thanking you in advance for any response.

[@charoperezgiusti4173]

Thank you! OK, So after the ordinance is final 1. Who sends the original ordinance to the registry office where my ancestor was born and who registers my birth certificate? Is this all done by your legal office? . How long does the administrative procedure of the registry office currently (covid times) takes (receiving the order, registering it and erolling the petitioner in Aire ? tHANK YOU.

[@bertiepinchera3940]

Going through this right now with a hearing scheduled for end March in the Tribunal in Rome. Fortunately, the line of descent is short and the documents all look fine with no peculiarities. Taken two years to achieve the hearing..

[@chrisfrost7469]

How did it go?

[@chiclett]

some 25 years ago, I went to the Italian consulate in Montreal. Took me all of 5 minutes to get Italian Citizenship. Glad I did it back then.

[@THE-PokerKing]

I am waiting for a court order that will correct many spelling mistakes made on my deceased mother’s birth certificate. I noticed that on the Italian consulates website (Miami) it says that they only accept a birth certificate that shows the city and county not just the county. In Florida, because my mother was born at home in 1926 and they didn’t start putting the city of birth on birth certificates until many years later does this mean I can’t apply for citizenship for me and my son?

[@mrecalde11]

Can someone help me out. My cousins started this process for us. We all jumped in and we got it all done. Now the court case is over and they are sending the judge decision to the consulate in NYC. My family don’t live in the United States. So once the consulate gets everything (first of all how do we know they got the paperwork?) what do we do next? Do we need any more paperwork to take to the consulate?

[@josephpettit8572]

Does the US cable act of 1922 come up alot during a 1948 case?

[@brianf4682]

It does if the woman you are claiming through was derivatively naturalized through marriage before the Cable Act. The lawyer will have to argue that the naturalization was not of her own doing and, therefore, should not have terminated her Italian citizenship. It is also somewhat relevant in establishing that women were not automatically US citizens upon marriage after that (unlike Italian law which otherwise assumes the citizenship of the wife follows the husband until the Italian constitution of 1948).

[@BellaStrega3]

Okay so can my great grandfather pass down the citizenship to my grandmother born 1944 and she passes it down to my father born 1968 without a 1948 case? Some how this is still unclear to me... also would it be possible for you to post the whole italian version? it would be very helpful ma grazie tantissimo per questi video sulla cittadinanza :))

[@bernardooechsler116]

Yes, you do not fall under 1948 law, you can either do your recognition through the Italian consulate or you can do it in Italy.

[@hindsightbymchview6554]

Can you help clarify is Italian Dual Citizenship and ICA the same company?

[@christopherboczkus989]

Italian dual citizenship, IF it is a company, is NOT the same as Italian citizenship assistance.

[@lynnf1659]

If my italian-born Father was naturalized as a minor in USA in 1929, can I apply for dual citizenship through him since it appears the naturalization was involuntary and done when he came over with his mother who naturalized?

[@teecna2669]

So ..if my great grandmother was born 1912 in ISCHA Italy, came to NYC and was still an ALIEN in 1940 and had given birth to my grandfather in 1939, would I qualify?

[@mr.dsproductreviewchannel]

Why is it Black and White in the Roman Court and in the United States there's so many different interpretations?

[@brianf4682]

1948 cases are not black and white as there is no formal concept of precedence in civil cases of the lower courts that these are handled in. Each case stands on it's own. The argument is often quite simple because, in most cases it is simply a matter of proving discrimination that the woman could not pass citizenship. However, some cases have added complexity, such as women who were derivatively naturalized, children born outside Italy before 1912, and so on. In fact there have been many cases that judges have denied that had similar particulars to others that were approved. It is critical that people chose a lawyer who has significant experience with these cases. There are a handful who have been doing them for over a decade.

[@crispdedhed]

Hi. I'm in the process of petitioning Rome through Marco's firm.. What can you tell me about how covid is affecting these cases, from procuring the documents till court petition dates.. In starting to feel like I'm just giving money away, as there's been no real progress or any updates.

[@stuartist]

Do you have to go to Italy to gain citizenship this way, or do they handle it all for you?

[@christopherboczkus989]

@@stuartist It is handled for you.. In my case, from start to finish... And in a 1948 case, you DO NOT have to appear in court, only your attorney..

[@stuartist]

@@christopherboczkus989 That sounds a lot easier than the regular jure sanguinis way. How long does the process take? Are there many extra expenses on top of what they charge?

[@christopherboczkus989]

@@stuartist You can only petition the court in Rome if you have a strictly 1948 case.. I opted for the top tier, which means they collect all the documents, translate and oppostile them, submit everything to the court and represent in court. When granted italian citizenship by the court, the register you in Aire, and everything in between, till you get a Italian passport. I'm pretty sure their are incidental charges, although I haven't seen them yet. All told, you can expect to pay between 7-10K euros... For me it's worth it. For someone else, maybe, maybe not.. I just want to get out of the USA mainly to be closer to my Son and Grandsons, who live in Europe. But increasingly I want to get out of the USA before our entire political system implodes. I don't want to be around the chaos and civil discourse any longer.. The entire process, accounting for the Covid slowdown or standstill, is expected to be 2-3 years.. Start to Finish..

[@stuartist]

@@christopherboczkus989 I'm also concerned with how things are unraveling in the US and would like having other options. I was told that because my male ancestor naturalized we can't claim Italian citizenship through him, but can through our female ancestor through a 1948 case. It's expensive, but it's starting to seem more and more worth it.

[@wakeelmuliatlove2745]

I have Asilo politico and I have live in Italy for four year and my permesso will expired 2023 can I apply for Italian citizenship

[@dearscotty]

Perhaps the ministry of interior doesn't challenge the case, but how often do judges throw out 1948 cases? Can a judge be having a bad day and decide to toss out a case because he's picky about paperwork?

[@brianf4682]

Yes, each case stands on it's own.

[@liveloveblog8274]

Hi im from eu do i need Italian citizenship if i want live permanently?What about healthcare,childcare?

[@Old_Harry7]

Are a member of the European Union, if so, yes whitout that much paper work.

[@nvaranavage]

Is someone able to obtain their italian citizenship through the descendant rules while still living in another country?

[@dustinbosse233]

Yes , I got it living in the US

[@alexandramontero5758]

What if the Italian descended mother gives birth to a child but gives the child away and the child is then adopted by US parents, can the child file for citizenship still or does the lineage lose it's rights through the adoption?

[@chiclett]

yes, as long as you have the paperwork

[@mr.dsproductreviewchannel]

I'm an American Citizen and was Divorced in Mexico. Would I Need a Translation from Mexican into Italian or would I Need Mexican into English and then into Italian?

[@dearscotty]

Did you mexican citizenship?

[@mr.dsproductreviewchannel]

No. I'm an American Citizen that had gotten a Divorce in Mexico just like My Father did.

[@dearscotty]

@@mr.dsproductreviewchannel your own divorce isn't pertinent to the case. they will ask for your parents' marriage certs, birth certs, etc. Your divorce has no bearing on whether or not you were born Italian.

[@mr.dsproductreviewchannel]

@@dearscotty All Life Event Documents are Needed. I'm Not the Last Generation that could apply, so it's 100% Needed.

[@dearscotty]

@@mr.dsproductreviewchannel If you're adding children, you can always wait until your citizenship from birth is recognized. Once that happens, you can have your kids and current wife gain citizenship via your local consulate

[@jmlepunk]

If you can't speak italian you are not italian. Don't come here

[@LilyWasHereMB]

Good thing that the people of the United States between 1880 and 1920 when more than 4 million Italians left Italy for a better life, did not have your same attitude.

[@chiclett]

You must be a Northerner. My origins are Southern. The original real Italians

[@jmlepunk]

@@chiclett you must be an American with Italian ancestry, which is not the same thing as an Italian person.

[@chiclett]

@@jmlepunk No Canadian and Italian Citizen. I say Northerner since only they can show such arrogance and Northerners don't even consider Southerners Italian. and I do speak Italian BTW, including English, French , and German, But Nobody refers to me as an English/French/German person.

[@jmlepunk]

@@chiclett that's awesome!