The Jedi Who Defected: How the Council's Short-Sightedness Caused a CIVIL WAR

[@inquisitorgarza312]

Darth Revan had every right to fight against Mandalorians and especially the complete monster Mandalore the Ultimate who committed several war crimes against the people of the Galaxy, and it is no wonder why so many join Revan as they saw him as a Hero who stood against evil.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Tho answering mandalorian warcrimes with warcrimes of his own might not have been the right way to go. Its actually confirmed Malak and Revan came very close to the dark side in the mando wars already and did resort to increasingly brutal and careless tactics over the war. There were reasons why Malachor V was suspected to have been Revans clean-house-ops before launching his own invasion. Obviously wasn't intended as such, but still an excessively brutal and ruthless strategy.

[@blackblack1167]

@@jeremyleonjonas7657 It’s partially why the Council wasn’t so willing to go to war. They knew if they did, they’d lose a lot of Jedi to the Darkside. That and with the Sith hiding somewhere, they knew the Sith would come after they’d been weakened by the Mandalorians The Jedi always seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

@@blackblack1167 absolutely. Tho I'd also argue just staying out of the war and telling the people to put up with it wasn't the jedi way either. Its a tough call navigating the fate of the galaxy as the jedi tend to do. Not in the way the sith and their empires do, of course. But still, jedi do make decisions affecting several hundred of worlds with millions or billions of inhabitants.

[@edmccurdy469]

As Revan commits a war crime against his own people lol

[@TheWarmachine375]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[@Shuddarun]

"Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."

[@lerneanlion]

Darth Revan's Sith Empire was gone... or so the Republic and the Jedi thought. Then, the Lord of Pain, the Lord of Hunger and the Lord of Betrayal appeared out of nowhere and waged a secret war against the Jedi and threatened the Republic at Telos IV.

[@ajra6143]

The Jedi have a real Morton’s Fork with war. Choose not to fight the Mandalorians, lose most of their own to Revan and Malak’s clutches. Choose to fight the Separatists, their near-complete annihilation by their order.

[@blackblack1167]

Damned if they do, damned if the don’t It’s kind of tragic to be honest. People always say: “if they just did X,” which I don’t think they realize we have hindsight while they live in that moment. Even though I disagree with the Council at the time of the Mandalorian Wars, I understand what they were trying to do. They did kind of call it too. By the time of the Clone Wars, it’s clear they definitely werent trying to make the same mistake

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Either way, Revan's actions, no matter how much wrong that led, are the better choice in a huge point of perspective. After all, a galaxy of all Mandalorians would be an accursed one indeed.

[@umitencho]

In one case, it was deciding whether not to stop a genocidal invading force. In the other, whether to choose sides in an internal conflict where both sides had good and bad points. The order by the clone wars were a part of the problem that encouraged the outer and mid rim to leave due to how the core had an lopsided strangle hold on the Senate only countered by corrupt corporate led systems. The answer was to untangle the order from the republic.

[@jmwilliamsart]

@@umitenchoI agree, the council was wrong not to get involved against the Manadalorians and it was also wrong of them to become involved in the Clone War. They ended up being wrong 2 times, 3rd time would be a real charm wouldn’t it?

[@demi-femme4821]

The Council wasn't nearsighted, it was farsighted. They were focused on the future coming of the Dark Side and left unable to see what was happening there and then.

[@kiennguyentrong1897]

If Revan had not been betrayed by Malak, they might have had a solid chance against Vitiate.

[@gabrielandjavierpinales3689]

It was Actually a threat worse than Vitiate. The True Sith. Chris Avellone said they were not Darths but monsters that preys on the force. Once they showed themselves the Jedi would have joined them. Revan turning to the Darkside was necessary as they would loose against Jedi that rely on the darkside.

[@brokenbridge6316]

We should see a Clone Wars inspired series on the Mandalorian Wars and see how Revan and Malak fell to the dark side. And also Metra Surik and see what eventually led to her making the decisions that she did. Wouldn't it be a great watch.

[@starwarzchik112]

Funny you mention this, I’m writing it right now!

[@brokenbridge6316]

@@starwarzchik112---Awesome

[@gehrigstory6674]

People may sometimes ridicule Darth Malak for being a bootleg Darth Vader type (I've heard such an opinion in other places), but when you have a Sith Lord whose very name is that of Molech/Baal, the idol that demanded child sacrifices in ancient Israel to bring rain for a good harvest; that alone should make you fear this demon‐of-a-man, just over his scary name (When you know the context behind it). Like, "Darth Lilith", or "Darth Beezelbul" sort of thing.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Plus, his background in the KotOR comics sure make him more interesting.

[@ivanthehighman177]

Huh... never knew that.

[@joelpahlman5608]

I love the old republic, partially because of Revan, some more old republic videos is always a good thing, also that Jedi council needed to burn

[@masteroftheassassins]

Just another example of how the arrogance of the Jedi Council cost the lives of countless beings. If I lived during that time, I would’ve fought proudly alongside Revan.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

....and then fallen to the dark side ;D while the council at the time was full of d!cks, Revan and Malak weren't exactly heroes. They flat out sacrificed their own troops like pawns and came close to the dark side before encountering Vitiate. Its confirmed that the Exile is the only one of their followers to not turn coat from the republic and fall to the dark side.

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@jeremyleonjonas7657 The same Exile who became a Force wound?

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

@@TheWarmachine375 yep, exactly that one xD

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@jeremyleonjonas7657 She is pretty based.

[@gabrielandjavierpinales3689]

The Jedi knew there was a threat on the outer rim and believe it what turned Revan and Malak to the Darkside, but they never walked to the dark places of the galaxy and face and feel death on such a scale. They were waiting on the threat to show itself rather than confront it personally. It caused Revan, Malak and the Jedi that follow them to turn to the Darkside once they were too young and unguided to face the True Sith.

[@virgiljianu7166]

I'd argue that Revan may not have fully been the good guy many claim him as. Now yes, he did save the Republic from the Mandalorians, but ultimately he had also shown some of his true colors through actions like matching the Mandalorians' brutality or using the Mass Shadow Generator which destroyed an entire planet (not to mention killing all the Republic soldiers and Jedi that were on the planet, with some theories saying that Revan had actually planned for that to happen, since many were not loyal to him). Keep in mind, this was way before he ever encountered Vitiate. It also didn't help that his master was Kreia, who likely didn't try to help his situation at all. Oh, and how can we overlook the fact that instead of leaving Dromund Kaas and trying to warn the Republic of Vitiate's existence once he knew for sure, he and Malak decided to two-man army the Sith Emperor, which we know how that ended. This action pretty much started a series of events that left the Republic much weaker when the Sith Empire eventually invaded. While I can say that his heart may have been in the right place, I can also say that he always had some sort of Caesar-like ambitions and a mentality that he knew best how things should be. I also think that Vitiate didn't just magically turn Revan and Malak into dark siders, as the story is usually told, but that he simply amplified the already existing darkness within them which manifested itself during the Mandalorian Wars. He's lucky the Council had a change of heart and gave him a second chance at life in order to set things straight.

[@cjhott7237]

He definitely had the Jedi Guardian mentality. The one where he saw the threat and thought only he knew how to defeat it. Revan made many decisions that much later Jedi generations made (the Battles of Russaan and the Clone Wars Eras in particular). They cut corners in their actions looking for faster and easier methods of winning battles. In the battles of Russaan they started recruiting untrained children. In the Clone Wars, Jedi fell into paths of revenge, committed small scale war crimes, and using dark side techniques or actions. I agree Kreia, with her unorthodox teaching methods, didn’t help with his view point, but she was not Sith at this point. She fell after Revan’s when she was presented with ancient Sith teachings that offered a different view of the Force. The Kreia we got in KOTOR II wasn’t the exact teacher that Revan had she had the same teaching methods, but a different set of lessons that she wanted to teach.

[@TheWarmachine375]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[@KepaniGrayson]

Darth Revan was incredible. I really enjoyed this video.

[@tisstuart]

Great job presenting this video. That actually made the entire character line more interesting to me. Just goes to show the poor marketing of the current elitist mentality. They avoid creating compelling new stories to sustain and instead vamp from previous successes. All the while free thinking folk with literary talents go ignored. Thanks for keeping a flame.

[@wedgeantillies66]

Mandelorian war was a really tricky catch 22 situation for the Jedi as they were damned if they did and damn if they don't as basically there were no good options. However with benefit of hignsight, reven was the right decision's as through it, he and his jedi defectors defeated the mandelorian's and despite the horrors of the carnage they would inflict on the republic during the jedi civil war. They toughten and militerised the republic and jedi to an extent that left them more prepared for the coming return of the true sith, 300 years later.

[@Engine33Truck]

As Malak said: “what is our crime? To be the only ones with the courage to do our duty?”

[@The_Admiral5]

Bro really be reading the SWTOR timeline video script almost word for word! 💀

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Honestly, I hope we get a Star Wars series of story arcs that showcase an otherwise benevolent New Jedi Order sect that turns rogue, goes the unsanctioned renegade ops rogue, and miraculously avoid the lure of the Dark Side whilst fighting Sith remnants, more rogues in the form of New Republic and Imperial units, pirates, and other galactic scum... which then leads to the wham moment that their universe is not connected to either Legends or Disney Canon, and becomes a Multiversal organization of so called "Gray Jedi" in all but name fighting their own secret wars offscreen via conflicts akin to Weirdmageddon, the Three Moons Initiative's takeovers, and whatever's happening with the MCU nowadays. Think Kill la Kill's Honnouji Academy. They're doing wrong, but only because they're trying to stop a far greater evil once and for all, by any means necessary. Edit: Now, if you excuse me, I'll just try forcefully scrubbing anything Vitiate related for me and my fellow operatives' benefit and safety.

[@indianajones4321]

Bro thanks again for increasing my knowledge on the Old Repubic

[@raijyn2452]

And the Jedi still wonder why they did it

[@66bloodmoon]

We need to have a movie about the old republic. Not new shit the old tales.

[@joshuacorless1233]

Revan was just the anakin of the old republic

[@brother_bear_one7340]

The Jedi council were always so useless... They had their falls coming...

[@Silrk246813]

Damn good recep. Single beat videogame story ever. And I'm a Halo mass effect and Skyrim guy. Legend. Long live Kotor.

[@greatazuredragon]

All hail Revan!

[@goldeagle6431]

The Senate always has long sight.

[@gavinlundy2876]

Thoroughly enjoyed this episode. I'd love to know more about the first Jedi and Sith and the timeline going forward, but honestly I really enjoyed it thanks and look forward to the next one.

[@aster4jaden]

Revan did nothing wrong.

[@gabrielandjavierpinales3689]

Revan and Malak were young Padawans who help the galaxy survive. They represent what it means to be Jedi. Also they turned to the Darkside only to save the galaxy from the threat of the True Sith. Revan was the only one doing that, Malak on the other hand wanted to destroy the republic. The whole point of the civil war was to transform the galaxy and make it stronger. As Kreia said Revan never fall. He did what was necessary to save the galaxy.

[@robertagu5533]

5:33, or so.. that building looked like it was made outta Legos

[@Dan-ew9sf]

A bit of confusion here, in the book 'Revan' the sith emperor dominated their minds to use as agents but their minds were strong then he thought so when they returned they forgot about the sith empire and believed they were sith ??

[@MrRonald327]

There are always rebels.

[@danielbruun6917]

Lucas film really needs to make more old Republic content, it doesn't even have to be about the true sith, it can be whatever

[@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462]

Worst jedi master ever, Vrook.

[@zexalbrony4799]

To be fair, the Council was technically proven right, since all the Jedi that did fight in the Mandalorian Wars(save for the Excile) did fall to the Dark Side which is what they didn't want to happen, so Revan and his followers ended up proving those stuffy idiotic Council members right. But given those other secret Sith were on the way, then whether it was the Mandalorian War, the Jedi Civil War, or the war with the Sith that were coming, the wars were going to be so brutal many would have fallen to the Dark Side anyway. So basically the takeaway from all these successive wars is that everyone would have been screwed no matter what anyone did, apparently.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Regardless of that, always pick the better outcome: for the Mandalorian Wars, Revan did right, in spite of what led to it. One can even argue that keeping Hitler alive would have at least slowed down Stalin's expansionary plans, advanced humanity in terms of science and living standards unironically, and redeemed Judaism from its many unjust prejudices.

[@zexalbrony4799]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Yeah, Revan was right to want to go and fight to protect and help those in need, but when he and the others started making moral compromises just to attain victory, it began to lead them to an outcome that could lead to worse things then what the Mandalorians had in store. Just like what happened in the Clone Wars as they progressed and tactics got a lot darker.

[@dx_n3774]

@@zexalbrony4799 To be fair he was corrupted by argubable the strongest sith in all of history vitate

[@Catchierduck]

Can we please have a podcast where you upload these videos on to Spotify iTunes etc

[@ayiza8511]

Was malec’s name a Alec when he was a jedi

[@Tahkaullus01]

There's a lot of nearsightedness in this comment section. In my opinion, the argument can be made both ways. Yes, Revan going to war did stave off the Republics destruction and millions of lives were saved. BUT in joining the war effort they committed horrendous acts. You need only listen to the list of attrocities these Jedi crusaders are responsible for from Atton Rand: Malachor V wasn't unique in theme, only in scale. And, well, we all know what happened after that. So yes, the Jedi were correct that going to war was a bad move. What so many people forget is that Jedi - Force sensitives in general really - feel things on a much deeper scale than others. They don't just witness death but feel it in the Force, and if that death is a terrified scream then that scream echoes in the Force and the Jedi hear it for much longer than we non-sensitives. That's why the no-attachment rule exists; the risk of the emotions involved overwhelming a Jedi is too great. Look at the great example of Anakin Skywalker - the man never learned to control himself and as a result billions suffered. Of course then the question must be asked if staying out of the Mandalorian wars indefinitely was the correct choice. As is always the case in history, no-one truly has the correct answer. Staying out of it potentially prevents Darth Revan and the Jedi Civil war... but it also means certain doom for the Republic and Mandalorian dominance in the Galaxy. What that could have looked like, we can only speculate (and no, I'm not going to consider Canderous' opinion that the galaxy would be better for it because that's a biased point of view in favour of the Mandalorians. It would be the same as asking an American their view on what Canada would be like if they'd won the 1812 war). The great fallacy of history is that we don't know if what happened was the best outcome or if better ones existed, and so we tell ourselves what we got was the correct course. That's why the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War will be debated for so many years to come: the resources and lore available is so varied and numerous that it does read like a genuine historiography. It's why I can honestly say Revan did save the Republic, but can also tell the Jedi bashers in this comment section to shut up and do some real research for once in their lives.

[@Revkor]

or if all the jedi went were some the war crimes needed and could the masters prevent a fall.

[@RavennaS.E]

The sith emperor jumped them and mind control them

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Another republic victory.

[@Aaron-fb6mb]

Why do you sound like that in this one man

[@brendanokeefe5918]

First

[@Tshak_Tschamouna]

fürst pückler

[@jeremygrant6145]

Can you go a week without talking about revan? There was never anything for you to tell me about him. I already knew it

[@grasshopper-ln9us]

I am the Sith'ari

[@gearybell]

hey geetsly's I really love your the definitive guide to the hutt species video my request is star wars the definitive guide to the twi'lek species in Star Wars galaxy!