The Key - A $2000 Coffee Grinder | Review

[@weberworkshops9132]

Thanks for the detailed review, Kyle! Watching this while preparing a midnight Cortado =) Here are our thoughts/comments: Dial Stiffness - this will get easier with time. We use very fine toothed threads with virtually no gap/play. It will wear in nice and smooth. Low RPM Stalling with light roast: A brushless motor will inherently have less torque at lower RPMs, but the grinder should be able to grind any drinkable coffee at any grind size from the mid RPM range. ‘Stalling’ actually acts as a protection mechanism so your motor doesn’t burn out - part of our way of ensuring it lasts decades. We could limit the lower end of RPMs, but that would mean that medium roasts and pour-overs wouldn’t be able to explore the super-slow grind profiles that we think is interesting and unexplored territory. We think it makes it more powerful as a tool, even if it requires a little more ‘gas’ to grind through harder beans. Overall great review. I think you'll love it even more as the months pass and the burrs continue to settle in.

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

Definitely a valid explanation for the RPM. I’m curious to see how the particle distribution on low RPMs on the key compare to low fine flat burrs.

[@crossen0]

This makes me feel better as I'm waiting for mine!

[@tsttt]

@Weber thanks for jumping in on the explanations as it's helpful for when my grinder arrives. Piccolo!

[@ericanderson1753]

Totally satisfied with this “low-RPM stalling” explanation. It seems it’s better viewed as something more was given (in terms of grinder range) rather than something was taken away. The popcorning issue, on the other hand, would drive me mad. Seems solvable from a design/engineering perspective.

[@Nasser-ov7bw]

I think adding (bean flow control piece) would help with 30 RPM light roast bean grinding, and maybe help with distribution and pop-corning 👍🏻

[@KyleRowsell]

What's your favourite milk based beverage? Truly Curious! Also, sorry about the glitch in colour at 9:48 for about 20 seconds. This was a mistake I made while exporting this video.

[@lancemoore3867]

I love Vanilla Lattes. My absolute go to when ordering a milk based drink. TBH, a cafe miel just slaps too!

[@murdk]

Cortado/flat white

[@morphmkd]

Cortado with double shot :)

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

My drink has been a Cortado for years now. When I try a new coffee shop that’s always the first thing I go for.

[@darkpatches]

Macchia Solare: Lungo with equal amount of steamed heavy cream. Foam is layered on top in a big circle, surrounded around the perimeter by the darker crema, with drops of espresso or flakes of chocolate on the foam (hence "sunspot").

[@michael_smith]

I’ve now got mine and have the following comments when using mine: - stalling shouldn’t be an issue if you pour coffee into the chamber with the grinder running, I have to do this with my Monolith as well. - I’m not 100% sold on the distribution wire, I think it’s not close enough to the grind catcher so also WDT as well - pouring coffee into the grinder could be improved as well as pop-corning - I want to do an burr alignment check with a DTI Other than that it produces some amazing coffee, and is a joy to use.

[@macmutant]

Major Keys: Love the objectivity of this review. I was looking at this grinder, but decided to go with the MC4 instead, because of the negative comments from early owners. Looking forward to the upgrade from my Baratza Encore.

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy your mc4!

[@darylgrunau]

EG-1 owner here, interesting to see how the Key functionality is compared to mine. My dial was also stiff from day one but with use it’s smooth like butter. EG-1 has similar RPM adjustment, and light roast espresso has a limit to how slow it can go before it might lose torque and produce the stalling in similar way as the Key. Ha. Forgot to add Major Keys

[@KyleRowsell]

This is helpful feedback. Thank you!

[@tristansmith3731]

Just watched your review after watching Spromethus's review. It was interesting to hear how you both had such different experiences. Overall, I love the review! keep it up Kyle

[@zeropuckprep]

Key Owner here - if you’re struggling with popcorning beans as I was try an empty roll of Duct Tape. Worked for me. Just cut the carboard in half slide it under the funnel and around the rod. Worked like a charm for me. Don’t need to chaperone beans anymore or use the bean cover thing that never worked to begin with. Seems my whole dose gets ground these days. I’m actually enjoying using this grinder a lot more since doing this. Workflow is so much more enjoyable but changing settings is still challenging need hand strength 😂.

[@cwill2127]

You’re…. Using a roll of duct tape on a grinder that cost 2 bands?

[@KristianMortensen]

You produce better and better content. Thanks dude

[@KyleRowsell]

means more than you know!

[@optikalblitz]

Major Keys. I appreciate that you’ve grounded the hype I’ve been experiencing about this grinder. It still may find its way to my bar one day but I feel less FOMO after watching this. Thanks, Kyle 🗝

[@KyleRowsell]

My pleasure. Here to share unbiased and truthful thoughts! 🙂

[@radoslavkrouchev1796]

Thanks for another great review! I’ll be sticking to the Niche Zero but this is one good looking grinder! The ease of workflow on the Niche is quite enjoyable

[@crossen0]

Thanks for sharing! I ordered mine shortly after watching your initial impressions video. I went from a 270WI to an Atom 75 and boy is there a big difference between conical and flat burrs. I've grown to enjoy the flats but I couldn't help myself from ordering another conical grinder. Makes me feel better that many people have multiple grinders on their coffee bars 😁

[@CelaMayne]

Cortado. I bought my first hand grinder based off your videos. Normcore ~$90. It works perfectly for me and my v60 needs. Thanks for the content

[@KyleRowsell]

Love to hear it!

[@Indramardian]

thank you for giving me information and inspiration about coffee, I'm from Indonesia, after watching this video a lot I'm learning more and more to develop my content

[@brandonhoeg7314]

Kyle - great video. This is coming from someone who is a filter coffee hand grinder type person (not currently poised to spend $2000 on a grinder), but I wanted to pop in for a few of my thoughts just from watching the video. The lid being removable to prevent popcorning seems kind of smart to me, because as you pointed out the dosing bin barely fits to pour ur coffee beans into the grinder, and I feel like a loose bean could fly out and hit the edges. Almost makes more sense to me to just make a full encompassing anti pop-corning lit with no hole to remove when pouring beans and place back on to remove popcorning entirely. That way no loose beans into the grinder, no pop corning, but also many people are used to a similar mechanic (removing a lid and replacing a lid) from single dosing bin covers etc etc so it is not like its an additional burden. Maybe this is a piece of advice you can pass along to the makers of this grinder. Making that a high quality piece seems to do away with a few of your most ‘quirky’ critiques with the grinder system. Okay that’s all hope you are well.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for this amazing comment! Appreciate this insight!

[@everhopefulalways4390]

I have had my Key for about the same amount of time as yourself!As an EG1 user also I am a convert! I am very pleased with the Key and note your very slight niggles as similar to my own. I am on a 240 volt electricity supply. Touch wood, I have never had a lockup, stutter or shudder at the lowest speed setting when grinding Cinnamon and light roasts at either espresso or filter settings. (Agtron Gourmet2 scale) I wonder if the voltage difference is significant? Or perhaps I introduce the beans more slowly to a hot start and that avoids the problem?

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@zixzysm]

- Major Keys! - Colonel Strings! (Saluting) … sorry… but thanks for the review :) It seems balanced, even considering that these big burrs take a long time to run in. Had my HG-1 since 2014 (mkII) and must say that the new magic tumbler turned out to be a really big upgrade in usability. And looks! Don’t want to go back to the old funnel. I also recently got the Wug mod for it, and experience the same changes in character when changing RPM. Great fun! It is worth keeping and using.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for this feedback and comment!

[@CWChandler1968]

Major keys! Love your stuff. I am looking to build a new bar and continue to struggle to pick where to put my budget. Breville DB and 2k grinder. Or Decent and $700 grinder.

[@LittleBear97]

I know this is nit-picking, but when you were making the espresso at 4:30 you were using a dual-spout portafilter, but for the B-roll footage the portafilter is bottomless. Little bit of continuity break there 🤓 other than that loved the video! Been watching a lot of your videos recently and love learning about coffee and espresso. Keep up the good work!

[@RobertsonDCCD]

Enjoyed the video-really thorough. Maybe I should have considered this grinder, but I ended up with its competitor, the Kafetek MC-4. I would love to see these two in a head to head matchup of high end conical grinders. My usual daily consumption is 1 Americano, 2 Flat Whites, and 1 straight double.

[@KyleRowsell]

I’d love to compare them someday. But that day is likely not very close ha. These products are not cheap.

[@ethiopianbuffman]

Major Key!!! Popcorning has been a problem these types of grinders in the past so it is something that is the norm unfortunately. I would like liked anti-popcorning lid to have two improvements: 1. be magnetic so it holds in place instead of just having it hit the shaft, and 2) have a sliding gate that opens to put beans in and close to prevent popcorning. I still think it is statement piece and could be the best conical, but bet the Lagom Mini or 58espresso 38mm conical make a similar cup, but the key looks way better.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for these thoughts! I would say the lagom mini still makes a different cup. These 83mm conicals at this speed create a unique experience.

[@ayoshi1351]

I think it’s a beautiful coffee grinder. I love the style of it and the RPM adjustability is intriguing. That said, the price is a bit too much for me right now. Maybe in the future when I get better at pulling shots and maybe have better espresso machine as well. Definitely something that I would consider purchasing in the future…but for now, I’m very happy with my Niche Zero ;)

[@BruceChanen]

I liked, subscribed, am commenting, flat white and major key… may the algorithms be with you!

[@KyleRowsell]

You’re amazing!

[@isaacsloan5896]

Thanks for the review. I watched the whole thing. Now if only mine will get shipped one day.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@xllvr]

I think if a grinder costs 2k, I'd expect more QC than what feels like was given in this. It looks great and sounds amazing regardless but at a price I could buy a whole PC rig for, I'd want to get top tier service

[@KyleRowsell]

Fair enough!

[@adammacfarland6415]

I’m partial to espresso, but if milk must be added, I do enjoy a cortado. Very interesting effect that grind speed has. I will have to look into this more. Major keys!

[@TalLikesThat]

Another great video! Also, Good job on having subtitles, that's important. Thank you, Kyle!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks!

[@rosskline]

The color tuning resets at 9:47 Great video btw. Just letting you know!

[@kacperuczak3247]

Even though I’m mostly a drip guy, I still do make espresso and milk beverages once every couple days. What’s interesting, because I enjoy a shot itself the most, if I had to go with something milky, I would go all the way - just a big latte drink. Either a perfectly brewed shot of espresso or a full-sized, big, milky latte that just uses espresso to be more brown than white 😂 Also, bigger cup = more space for latte art play. Thanks a lot for this video Kyle! I really appreciate you trying to out advertise this beautiful world of specialty coffee and make it a casual topic to discuss, less of a nerdy thing. We should drink great coffees if we like them and you make it both amazing and interesting! Take care, from Poland!

[@simply_psi]

Greetings to you from the UK. Have you tried coffee from Savage Coffees; they are a roaster I like very much, they have some lovely beans, and their instant is innovative and surprisingly good

[@simoworm]

Major Keys. Good honest review Kyle.

[@robertmullins9639]

Great video and review! That said, I get the price to some extent.... the gearbox for this cannot be cheap to design or manufacture. But... I truly think it is over built, therefore the price is not justifiable for most. I would think the buyer pool is not very big.... a really well made hand grinder is a fraction of the cost and can deliver across the brewing spectrum... espresso to filter to immersion, solidly and dependably. . Just my opinion.... Thanks again as always!!! 🙏

[@daniwalmsley611]

From what I have heard, wdt does improve the key grind but it's only a minor improvement, they also now sell a slow feed disc that will improve grind distribution even further, eliminate popcorning and should deal with the stalling iaauea too

[@mrhoborz]

It's a beatiful grinder that I'll research exhaustively... only to remember that it's 2K and I am happy with what I have XD. Also, I usually drink straight shots or black coffee, but I really like the balance of a cortado

[@damado26]

Putting 5+ lbs of coffee through mine made a huge difference. MUCH better now. Was channeling like crazy before and setting was inconsistent, but seems to be broken in now.

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad to hear this!

[@brandonrobinson8757]

MAJOR KEYS New(ish) to the channel. Love the content you put out. Unbiased, relevant information for people in every stage of their coffee journey. Keep it up my man, all good vibes.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks! And welcome!!!

[@pablo-zn1mg]

9:46 colour grading has left the chat

[@danieldurling]

Major Key. If not this what would your preferred grinder be for filter coffee?

[@TheNathanMChannel]

A metal-bladed iris that closed down around the center shaft when twisted would be badass and also fit with the camera lens kinda look too. I mean if we're gonna do fancy, might as well go for it.

[@KyleRowsell]

Really neat idea

[@EvilBambo0]

I make all sorts of coffee, depending on my mood each day. I'm using a Niche and Jmax hand grinder right now but want to compliment my setup with another flat burr so the Key is not for me. Personally prefer the look of P64, Niche or Oro than this, the Key reminds me of my juicer at home. It's slim profile maybe useful for some but imagine digging that brush out when bench space is lacking. I love how this new rpm feature opens a whole new dimension in coffee making. As I'm sure you have the Kurve filters, it would be useful to grind the same beans using different rpms and compare the distributions on at least the extremes. That would be a great addition to the taste profiles as that can be highly subjective. Also magnifying into the shapes of the grind that got "torn" apart at low rpm as well as high would be an interesting sighting too. The noise level in dB and grind retention can also be investigate too, although all of the above will make the video into a boring half hour long nightmare to produce and edit. I can imagine how fiddly the micron-adjustment top plate getting adjusted every time you change a bean or brewing method, compare to say the Niche, which you can adjusted with one hand quite quickly. The inbuild wire-mixer/clumps breaker reminds me of my wife's old mixer with the whisk that doesn't scrap the bottom. Perhaps they will improve it in version 2? Just my nitpicks but I'm sure this grinder is awesome once the owner get used to it's workflow.

[@muhannadalahmadi3912]

What do you recommend.. how is the best key or Lagom P64 ؟

[@vtcanada2000]

Nice grinder! Thanks for the review!

[@tydcook]

Major keys- I would be thrilled to see a comparison in workflow between this and the Niche. I have a Niche and it seems like I might actually be more happy with my current workflow than ‘upgrading’ to the Key. I know it’s a totally different flavor/texture profile, but workflow is a big consideration for me, especially when comparing with a Niche.

[@KyleRowsell]

Great feedback!

[@samuelcooley9102]

Very interesting flavor distribution at low rpm, thanks for your thoughts! Major keys.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@DilipAndrade1]

while at home the preferred drink is a simple double espresso, outside of home, it's a flat white (Happy Goat beans at home, bridgehead flat whites for those of you in Ottawa)

[@johndaintree]

Major Keys. Another great video. Thanks Kyle.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@olivianeugeboren602]

recently Ive mostly been making flat whites. I love a strong coffee flavor but my stomach is very sensitive to acid so the milk helps temper the acidity a bit. I use a moka pot, so i tend undershoot the amount of milk to minimize dilution, but i spike it with half and half to keep the overall fat content of the drink roughly the same. I use the normcore v2 grinder, at your recommendation, and absolutely love it. Obviously that means a 2000$ grinder is far out of my price range, but I'm still fascinated to hear about things like how variable grind speed can effect your coffee. I'm still at the very beginning of my coffee journey, and and videos like this get me excited for the possible futures my coffee drinking will have. great video as always, congrats on 50k

[@chaspratt]

Looks elegant and assuredly works well, but I don’t consider myself among the coffee/espresso elite. I’m still looking for a terrific grinder, but the Weber is way above my price point. Impressive, but not for me without a steep price drop. Also, my favorite milk drink is latte. My wife loves cappuccino.

[@tunahxushi4669]

I agree with you on the insane price of this grinder. But I am 55 years old, I have purchased a half a dozen coffee grinders over the last 30 years and they all broke and most were fairly crappy and ugly with plastic and how much time I spent sending them in and fixing them... what a mess. The reason I am going to purchase this is extremely overbuilt, looks beautiful on the countertop, and will last me the rest of my life. I never want to call customer service over a junky coffee grinder ever again.

[@charlespratt4935]

@@tunahxushi4669 I see your point and totally understand. If I were younger and just starting the espresso hobby, I would also be tempted to make the investment. Enjoy your new grinder!

[@EarthbendR]

Whole vid: congrats on getting the first in Canada! Haha! Man, your videos are stellar. Absolutely fantastic, wonderfully helpful, and just good old FUN man 👌🏼🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@KyleRowsell]

Aw thanks so much.

[@theziway]

Major Keys. Great detailed video as always, good to know both the good and the ugly 👌

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!!

[@JustTony72]

Major keys, I'm still waiting for my Onyx but boy I'm excited. Going from a $150 grinder this is prob a bit of a big step.

[@KyleRowsell]

Excited for you!

[@azza2575]

Major keys: whilst I don't think $2000 is too much to spend on something you'll love and use daily... I think the Kopi concepts grinder which is £720 delivered with add ONS - might be a contender. It's a flat burr but it has beautiful looks, great reviews so far and variable rpm

[@KyleRowsell]

Good points! Thanks for watching

[@knottymatt]

Great review, thanks. One question I have, what's your preferred/go-to espresso grinder for taste/experience?

[@KyleRowsell]

Right now. The key and the p64

[@DiaXisHD]

Damn bro, you look buff. That grinder looking light.

[@KyleRowsell]

It’s all from adjusting the grind size. Better than push-ups.

[@homecafecharlie]

Very interesting review Kyle and lots to think about. I haven't really considered a grinder in this price range so it's good to see a review so I can feel justified in sticking to the mainstream prosumer level stuff. Maybe one day when I start a cafe I'll get one of these ;)

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@SALTINECRACKUH]

Favorite milk beverage is a mocha latte. $2000 is pretty wild for a coffee grinder. Major key!

[@KyleRowsell]

Yes, it is!

[@reggiehansen5277]

Looks like your S-Log LUT came off of the video at 9:45:00. Here's to the watching the whole video gang!!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks! I’m aware, didn’t catch till the video posted!

[@maxvanbeers4548]

ooh yes, We've all been waiting for this one! :D:D:D:D

[@KyleRowsell]

Hopefully worth the wait!

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

Major keys. And endgame grinder for me would probably end up being the EG-1, or Kafatek Monolith. Go big or go home 😆. Or possibly the glorious HG-1 as I mentioned previously 😁.

[@KyleRowsell]

Nice! Thanks for commenting Andrew

[@machines117]

I’m hoping the Key would be a good compliment to the EG-1

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

Based on reviews so far I would think so. Adjusting RPM allows you to take the Key from a more traditional conical style profile, to something more similar to a traditional flat profile.

[@jockbradley670]

@@machines117 That is my plan. I think the Key will offer a different type of shot than the EG-1 with the core burrs. There are some roasts that are just a bit too clean with the EG-1 and being able to switch to the Key will be a perfect compliment.

[@machines117]

@@jockbradley670 Agreed! I’m hoping the Key would be more forgiving to dial in to compared to the Core or Ultra EG1 burrs

[@remingtontyler]

I have one on order, but I’m still trying to decide if this is the right grinder for me. For a lower cost I could buy an Ode and upgrade the burrs AND buy a Niche for espresso duty. I’d get the best of clarity and texture at a lower price, but at the cost of build quality, rpm control and counter space. Still very undecided at this point. Someone tell me what to do!

[@KyleRowsell]

Tough decision. The other option is the p64 with unimodal SSP. Does espresso and filter very well - as long as you like that style of espresso,

[@BensCoffeeRants]

3:08 Mine makes more of a vibrating noise which is a little annoying Weber says it's normal and it's the gear box. It seems to come from the back of it, not the burrs at least. I posted a video of the sound.

[@jaimev5650]

Yup. I saw your video and then went back to a promotional video from last year that they had done. Sure enough, even in their polished marketing video that same sound is there.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@jaimev5650 Well I guess that's reassuring, I'll have to find that and see! Other Key owners seem to indicate theirs sounds nicer though. *update watched their video and noticed it too! Well, props to their honest marketing there. Kyles in this video sounds nicer!

[@jaimev5650]

@@BensCoffeeRants It’s on their KZbin channel (Key Grinder Workflow). I believe it’s the same sound. I’ve heard it in other video posts as well, but not all (as you point out). It’s unclear to me if that’s due to variation in parts or production, or if other posters aren’t holding the mic close enough. In any case, if you’re hearing the same thing as in their video it seems to me that’s the baseline sound. In the video, it sounds to me like they deliberately increase the volume of the video at the point where the user revs up the grinder.

[@AlexCamerony]

In regards to milk drinks, I'm very partial to classic cappuccino, especially after dinner I personally don't think $2000 is necessarily too much if you can afford it and it's fitting your specific coffee workflow and desired usages. Maybe I haven't had enough espresso but I actually find it hard to know if I would prefer to chase texture or clarity, I own towards clarity for filter although, I do like a decent amount of body if I can have both. Also, Major keys!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for the comment Alex! Much appreciated!

[@Na5k1]

When going for milk based drinks, cortados are by far the best. My local shop doesn't do them tho so have had to do with flat whites recently. Major keys

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for the comment! All the best

[@mikelpc001]

Coffee is absolutely fascinating

[@KyleRowsell]

It sure is

[@robertbrandt884]

Major Keys. Loved the video!!!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks Robert!

[@drazenbabich]

This is a grinder for a true espresso and pour over aficionado, definitely not as you said - for the masses. One mistake Douglas made when originally marketing this grinder pre IGG campaign is when he said - we wanted to create a more affordable grinder targeting a wider audience. There were literally hundreds then who this grinder wasn’t the best fit for, who bought it and initially (and continue to this day) struggled with it even as a concept alone. On the topic of stalling, that’s not just endemic to Key, I own a Monolith which happens to stall at low RPMs, too. But as an engineer I am totally fine with it as I expect this as normal behaviour. We are given a slow speed grinder with features hard to find anywhere else, some basic rules (and limitations) of physics, electrical and mechanical engineering apply. People who find this as a deficiency and don’t see benefits of grinding at super low speed on a large conical burr grinder - should buy a Niche, it’s really that simple. BTW, the Bean Feeder insert has managed to address both popcorning and stalling at low RPMs issues. I have installed mine few months ago and can confirm it works. It’s something the Key should have come with from day one, but late is better than never. Enjoy your Key, I’m loving mine (even though it’s competing against other 2 grinders on my kitchen top)

[@adi2082]

Cortados are my favourite, but really you are my favourite :3. I recently bought a Hey Cafe H1 grinder and I think the coffee community is sleeping on this.

[@KyleRowsell]

Ha thanks!!

[@بكرالحوران]

Bro, i have a problem with the pin locking system the burrs are locked now

[@jaimev5650]

I have a Comandante C40 and I can report that it repeatedly stalls on me at low rpms when grinding dense light roasts. 😄

[@KyleRowsell]

Not sure if a joke… but I love this comment regardless lol

[@jaimev5650]

Indeed it is, friend. Dense beans at fine grind settings require a lot of torque. No matter how hard I try and anticipate a stall and power through it, my C40 will jam. I was just lightheartedly shedding light on the fact that all grinders are susceptible to stalling in these situations. The Key looks like it’s no exception.

[@joshcook777]

Mocha is really the only milk based coffee beverage that I enjoy

[@paryzfilip]

The looks are amazing, tech behind it is more sophisticated than a usual electric grinder, but I'd really like to see if aligning the burrs could produce even better grinds 😛

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey friend! No need to align the burrs. They are great out of box. But again - I can only speak to my personal experience

[@AlejandroPDX]

Great video! Since I have a Niche I think if I could spend $2k I’d get a Lagom p64. Fav milk beverages are usually cortados or breve latte

[@KyleRowsell]

Fair enough!

[@MegaChisquare]

Thanks for the reivew. Could you comapare the Key and the Lagom P64?

[@KyleRowsell]

Yes I will

[@NashvilleFanatic]

Major keys! I wonder if the coffee community could benefit from some cross channel conversation?? I'd love hear a quick chat between you and "The Real Sprometheus" on your experiences with this grinder!

[@petterklepelv]

I mainly brew V60 plus some aeropress and French press. Looking to upgrade from my Wilfa Svart grinder. I want an excellent cup of coffee, but I also want a premium experience ang great design. What grinder would you recommend?

[@KyleRowsell]

I’ve got other videos covering this. Maybe a hand grinder? Or the ode? Lagom mini?

[@petterklepelv]

@@KyleRowsell Thanks! I really like the Lagom mini. Just a bit concerned about capacity. I regularly grind 30-35 grams of coffee, and sometimes up to 50-60 grams for French press.

[@vincentpelletier1246]

Really curious to see how much the company makes selling this grinder for 2000$ USD.

[@yandeslongchamps]

I guess the biggest cost is R&D

[@barskuleli8612]

Lots… They sold already lots lots of…

[@vincentpelletier1246]

@@barskuleli8612 Lots? As in 100?

[@judithverheijden8588]

Major Keys, I might be old fashioned but I stick to my morning cappuccino as my favorite milk drink.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for sharing!

[@homebaristacoach9183]

Good review, fair and reasonable as always.

[@KyleRowsell]

Appreciate that!

[@ZZXZZY118]

Thanks for your review! I am waiting for mine😀

[@KyleRowsell]

Excited for you!

[@DonPakundo]

Is it just me or did the grading of the video change suddenly at 9:47? If I was paying $2000, I expect not to need to RDT and WDT in my puck prep and still get the channelling!

[@trevorkurzhal]

If not already mentioned, the declumping tool is bendable to better fit the tumbler. My hg2 grinds are ALWAYS well de-clumped because of it.

[@KyleRowsell]

Absolutely! Even still - it doesn’t reach the bottom portion of the magic tumbler

[@trevorkurzhal]

@@KyleRowsell after going back and testing that for myself: agreed. I'm getting less channeling because of less clumping (I think) by manually going in and de-clumping before dropping it into the portafilter. I appreciate your insight on that! Better coffee thanks to you.

[@davidk630]

Major Keys. I'm concerned about the long shaft between the motor and burrs. Have you had to align it by whacking it with a mallet? How did that work out?

[@KyleRowsell]

Nope - came perfectly aligned

[@noamasherovich1311]

Cortado! Major keys 🤘🏻

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@pithyginger6371]

Fav milk drink is the 8oz latte. Perfect balance of milk and espresso taste imo. 6oz drinks feel more espresso forward while 10 oz lattes become too milky

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for sharing!

[@parasbhargava6047]

Kyle I wonder if they added an oscillating rpm function you could get viscosity and clarity both. Love peace at the end. And my milk drink is cold brew with 35 pct table cream no sweetener!

[@KyleRowsell]

Interesting thought! I think as the burrs season that’ll help as well.

[@parasbhargava6047]

@@KyleRowsell the levercraft has rpm profiling. I wonder if there is a way of programm8ng this easily on this machine. It might actually give you tri or quad modal grinds

[@ericdur2108]

Major keys, Would you consider doing a review of a few grinders in in the price point of like a rancillio rocky, something so many shops offer? Keep grinding Kyle! 🔑

[@KyleRowsell]

I have lots of videos in that price range! Not a huge fan of the rocky so likely won’t be doing that soon sorry!

[@michaelm6522]

Great review. Major keys!

[@kwikc1756]

Great video, Kyle! Fellow Canadian here...can you suggest a couple of roasters to explore if one is starting out and looking more for rich, sweet, and traditional med/dark roast espresso beans?

[@KyleRowsell]

Check out my brew bar vid! I share some. One of my favs is monogram

[@kwikc1756]

Thanks! Love your videos...so insightful and a pleasure to watch!!

[@ShayneScherer]

I don't really do milk in coffee. I've drank it black my whole life. However, I made a latte recently and it was delicious. Just not something I would drink often. Maybe a cortado would be more up my alley.

[@ShayneScherer]

also Major Keys

[@scider2]

Adjustable RPM really seems to be a great thing!

[@KyleRowsell]

It kinda is

[@bali404]

I like the uncircumcised brush

[@arianyazdannik968]

Hey Kyle noce video. I really enjoyed the review and I think it is a beautiful grinder with great features. All that being said I believe for this price I expect a bit more in terms of motor strength and attention to details as I saw many comments about faulty gears, stalling and bent shafts. And finally I rarely drink milk based but if I do latte is my go to.

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey Arian! Thank you for this comment! I can only speak to my experience and it hasn’t shown these faults or defects (outside of the low rpm issue). So for me I can only review based on what I’ve personally experienced but if someone has faced these things than yes that would be disappointing and even frustrating. I’m confident that WW will take care of these issues and while there truly are no excuses at this price, it is still a crowdfunded project in its first few hundred grinders. So again, I’m optimistic in the case any issues arise.

[@Andrew-wp1bz]

See the pinned comment for an explanation on this.

[@jerbrooks]

Major keys! Thanks for chatting on Instagram about this grinder. Mine, as you know has paint issues on the top - Weber dismissed this and stuffed me off. My biggest concern is the slope of the funnel that directs beans into the grind chamber - I'm constantly having to push beans into the grinder with my fingers. The slope is too flat and perhaps not smooth enough. The finish almost wants to grab and hold the beans. I have had a few stalls at low rpm as well. While I miss the gooey shots, as mentioned I'm seeing much more clarity from my shots and definitely less of the bitter and sour notes that my fiorenzato was sometimes creating. I'm pulling shots with a rocket r60v and definitely enjoy the profiling the machine allows for with this grinder. Would love to hear your ideas for a recommended pressure profile setup! Feel free to reach out again on IG and great video from an awesome fellow Canadian!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for the comment Jeremy, and sorry you faced this in the customer service response

[@BensCoffeeRants]

5:50 Same for me, it's kinda flat-like right. I did get some pretty nice body at higher RPM (still high clarity) vs the super high clarity low body Lagom P64 with SSP unimodal multipurpose burrs, but compared to something like Niche Zero you'll probably have less body on the key, but also more clarity so kind of a good versatile in between option. I find it does do really well for coarser brew methods as well. I wasn't getting much fines on mine, seems pretty unimodal for a conical to me. 9:00 I did notice mine was sometimes hard to adjust sometimes easier, if there's some bean fragments in there it is hard, which actually happens going EITHER way, so if that's the case lock it back down run the grinder again and it should be easier to adjust after. 9:45 Colour Grading / Quality Change!? I thought my grinder was better (making better tasting coffee) after a light seasoning maybe like 2lbs through it, but could just have been due to chance. Compared to my other good grinders it was good but not as good at first, then compared again later and sometimes it is better. 12:00 I think the magic tumbler wire basically just keeps the coffee off the ledges, it's annoying, getting the tumbler in and out with it dangling, I bent mine pretty quickly. I prefer to use the funnel WITH the magic tumbler sitting below it because it's slightly taller than the standard tumbler and it prevents the TINY bit of overspray you get if you do not use RDT and use the higher RPM with that funnel and the wiper arm installed.

[@KyleRowsell]

Great thoughts as always Ben! And yes there was a minor glitch In the export of this video file

[@elpepelucho]

what brand is that cool double walled espresso glass you're using ?

[@KyleRowsell]

Kruve

[@JorgeAlvarado-nx9tv]

I don't really enjoy milk in general, with the glorious exception of a good flat white. I don't have and may never have a $2000 grinder, but I don't think this is my choice. I have a DF64 and love the grinder for filter coffee, and am getting used to the flat burr espresso profile. So if I had the possibility of upgrading, I think I would stick with flat burr grinders.

[@davidhopkins4022]

Major KEYS: Glad I got mine when it was cheaper on IndieGoGo. Even at low RPMs and profiling with my Decent espresso machine, the coffee this produces is better, but not significantly better than my former Niche Zero (700$) or Kinu M47 (300$) hand grinder. At 2k dollars, I really struggle to see it as a good value. You’re paying a premium for aesthetics and build quality, which I’ll grant enters very subjective territory.

[@KyleRowsell]

Well said

[@darylfortney8081]

Getting in Onyx for purely espresso on my Slayer ... is replacing an EG-1 which retains too much coffee and a Kafatek Flat Max which is pretty decent but I really want a richer more traditional espresso grind.

[@KyleRowsell]

Interesting! Thanks for sharing!

[@knightkrew]

Thanks for the awesome review Kyle! Had my eye on this grinder for awhile and wanted to see how the reviews came in before dropping the $2k. Kind of on the fence between the Key and the Lagom P64. While the P64 is cheaper I LOVE how the Key looks / works. As someone who mostly drinks cappuccinos which would you choose?

[@KyleRowsell]

For caps, I’d honestly recommend a mid tier like niche or DF64. While the build quality is superior on these - you really won’t taste a ton a difference once adding milk. You’d be paying for build and aesthetics.

[@yandeslongchamps]

Kyle! Just had a flash seeing you WDT that coffee. You should team up with Brian Quan/Lance Hedrick and be the canadian ambassador for the people's WDT tool in Canada. I mean, we are people too and we need WDT too, no?

[@KyleRowsell]

Those lads are my boys. But I’m not sure what you’re asking. 😅

[@yandeslongchamps]

@@KyleRowsell not sure if they only reviewed the product or they participate in it's distribution, but it's only availlable to US and Europe, not in canada

[@stockraker1690]

Cappuccino is my fav

[@marcevans2620]

Major Keys. I'll never buy one of these though. I might upgrade from the Timemore C2 Chestnut one day, but at the moment I'm happy.

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad to hear it Marc!