The King of Stealth Gaming

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THE NTH REVIEW #11! He didn’t think it could be done, but it can be done! Nick tackles the entire Thief series, all four games, full of stealth gameplay and evasive action. That’s Thief: The Dark Project, Thief 2: The Metal Age, Thief: Deadly Shadows and Thief, the 2014 reboot. Enjoy this epic new eleventh Nth Review!
Also, there were about a dozen more blackjacks I couldn’t fit in because I’d already set the markers in Premiere and you couldn’t mass-move them. You’ll know what I’m talking about.
NOTE: Nearly all the footage I used in this video for Thief: Deadly Shadows has been brightness/contrast corrected. It might look garish at times, but I had no idea how much darker the game was until I started editing it alongside everything else and it was borderline unusable until I started altering the footage. Hopefully it's not too annoying!
I'mma... gonna take a short break for a minute.
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Amazing Vaporwave/Hypnowave by Pitfall.
( / pitfall-3 )
‪@arstechnica‬ - War Stories on Thief w/ Paul Neurath • How Thief's Stealth Sy...
‪@GrimBeard‬ - Thief: The Dark Project
• Grimbeard - Thief: The...
Joseph Anderson - Why Horror Games Don’t Scare Me • Why Horror Games Don't...
TTLG thread with conversation transcriptions
www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...
Garage Games thread talking about generation of stealth volumes: www.garagegames.com/community/...
Thief: Postmortem by lead programmer Tom Leonard: www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...
Ahead of its time: The History of Looking Glass (Polygon, Mike Mahardy)
www.polygon.com/2015/4/6/8285...
Thief: Troubled Development
www.polygon.com/2013/4/26/426...
The Dark Mod Fan-Made Thief
• The Dark Mod Official ...
Thievery Mod trailer
• Unreal Tournament-Thie...
The modern day Thief reboot that never was (Thief 4: The Dagger of Ways)
www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...
Penny Arcade: They Are Genuinely Interested
www.penny-arcade.com/comic/20...
Noclip - The Untold History of Arkane: Dishonored / Prey / Ravenholm / LMNO / The Crossing
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4kdq...
Report: Thief 4 Development in Trouble
www.engadget.com/2012-06-14-r...
FleshEatingZipper - Games Journalism is Bullshit and Other Secrets You Didn’t Know
www.flesheatingzipper.com/gami...
MW2 footage - ‪@L1011Widebody‬
Silent Service gameplay - @Kelsey Polnik
Gauntlet Arcade gameplay - ‪@AmitDabydeen‬
Descent gameplay - @Kaizen Kitsune
Goldeneye gameplay - ‪@3iikka‬
Skyrim lockpick gameplay - ‪@NimsTV‬
Splinter Cell lockpick gameplay - ‪@AFGuidesHD‬
Condemned: Criminal Origins gameplay - ‪@VergilHiltsLT‬
0:00 Intro
0:41 1. First-Person (Not) Shooter - History
25:50 2. Painting the Whole City Dark - Storytelling
48:42 3. Drawing the String Tight - Gameplay
2:08:10 4. A Shot in the Dark - Thief: The Dark Project/Gold
2:54:00 5. Refining the Edges - Thief 2: The Metal Age
3:31:57 6. A New Age - Thief: Deadly Shadows
4:12:32 7. The Reboot - Thief (2014)
5:06:22 8. Conclusion
5:11:40 Outro

[@ActionArc]

>Thief >Nth Review >5 hours you had me at hello

[@NthReview]

*bows politely*

[@GepardenK]

Regarding Garret's strange perpetual poverty: I think it's mainly the third game that drops the ball on this. The first two has it more or less covered. Garret is not a popular or particularly known thief at the start of the first game. You can find hints that Victoria is scouting for a "good burglar" in most of the early missions yet it's only after Garret makes a scene out of his revenge on Ramirez that she notices him. The first three missions form an arc where Garret puts in a lot of effort without getting properly paid (Horn of Quintus being his consolidation prize). When Garret takes Constantine's offer it's because he's finally found a break that can get him out of independent low-life thieving and into retirement. Of course he never gets his payday. The second game's reasoning is a little less convincing since Garret is breaking into places that by all accounts should make him rich all on his own, but the main idea stressed through the story is that the new city watch has been so hard on crime it's impossible to move any goods. The third game, however, just gives up on all that - Garret has no reason to be poor at that point but somehow still is.

[@Xornicus]

Lmao imagine having to live in eternal poverty as your unbreakable plot

[@SuperLeshina]

When I played the trilogy, I had a sense that Garrett steals because he likes it. But there is also something to consider about - it's highly unlikely he steals as much as he does in the games every single night. There ought to be many breaks to thieving considering Garrett has to sell what he stole, and most importantly he has to lay low for a long time so as not to get unwanted attention. It also doesn't help that the local IRS would be interested in how a poor commoner can suddenly afford luxury goods.

[@GepardenK]

@@SuperLeshina While Garret surely takes pride in his work he definitely steals out of necessity. The first two games constantly harps on about how he has trouble paying his rent. In the first game he plans on retiring as soon as he can get his hand on some decent money. In the second game he, at one point, is so poor (and without access to good fences due to the new city watch) that he fears having to go back to pickpocketing people on the streets.

[@PlasticCogLiquid]

@@GepardenK Well, when a single arrow cost $300 of course he's going to stay broke.

[@RamadaArtist]

I hadn't really thought about it before this video, but I'm inclined to imagine that currency in the Thief games has about the same degree of stability as Woolongs do in Cowboy Bebop, where the price of an apple can be W10 one day and W100,000 the next. When the existing governments and banks have no oversight whatsoever, you can imagine that the people in charge of money might be regularly fucking with its value, to gain wealth arbitrarily though manipulating the exchange rate, (which you may be unsurprised to learn has happened recently in real life,) or something to that effect. The net result being that attempting to actually hoard money is kind of pointless, because it could worthless the next time you need it, so it really only makes sense to make and use money when you need it, (or have an arrangement where part of your pay comes in the form of food and lodging.) Since Garrett is *never* gainfully employed, he probably both doesn't have a good sense of how the financial system works (other than knowing that he needs more finances at all times) and isn't getting a place to live as part of his compensation. It's possible that being able to afford rent in the City at all is rather opulent, and that most people would simply work for their landlords instead, resulting in the situation where Garret is now, constantly complaining about rent.

[@chrishunter8305]

The devs of Thief 4 might have claimed to "love" the thief trilogy, but it's obvious they didn't understand it. They didn't understand level design, characters, incentive to explore, narrative or pushing the limited engine out to do what you can with it instead of just make it look pretty to sell it to people who like shiny things. The closest they came to a Thief experience was in (I think chapter 6,) the Asylum, but everything else feels wrong. People have called it Square Enix fan fiction but I wouldn't even be that kind to it.

[@Torgo1969]

It was an abomination.

[@ryan80166]

Yeah they ruined any future for the franchise. Modders created a better story years prior with “shadows of the metal age”. It was a cash grab product. It’s a shame there are no companies putting out such incredible games like looking glass did. I’m 30 now, and nothing comes close to these narrative dark stories today, and I really don’t think it’s nostalgia.

[@TrigonAZR]

So, I loved 1 and 2 way back when. You guys reckon it's not worth checking out?

[@ryan80166]

@@TrigonAZR It's very different, you may like it, but I did not

[@stanboyd1]

@@TrigonAZR I really enjoyed Thief 4 but on that note, I have never played Thief 1 and 2, I have only played 3 and 4. I like 4 just as much if not more than 3, it is somewhat linear, but I don't think its nearly as linear as the haters try and make it out to be. There are multiple ways to get to you goals on every map. I would basically say its a medieval version of Deus Ex Human Revolution.

[@thesidneychan]

I played though Thief 1 and 2 after watching Civvie 11. I played them on Expert, and despite the aged graphics and janky mechanics and exploitable AI, they were addictive and immersive, and a rewarding feeling to figure stuff out without a walkthough. A lot of the fun was also being able to do anything and get away with it within the confines of the game engine. Knocking out everything, putting out every light, disabling security, etc. Even with impatience it becomes an exciting challenge to rush into a hallway, knock out a guard, then reload a quick save if you failed again and again. The game got terrible in the endgame missions though. I got so addicted that I started playing Thief2x and got blown away with what fans could push the game engine to do. I think the appeal of it is pretty much also reliant on the limitations the game had. The more I played Thief, the more I retroactive realised how much of an influence Thief had on newer games, including Skyrim.

[@morkgin2459]

Without walkthrough, thief is pain in the ass though. The monster levels are very confusing and mazelike making the navigation difficult.

[@bruhirl1023]

@@morkgin2459 not really

[@morkgin2459]

@@bruhirl1023 You're right. Later the monster levels become so linear that exploration becomes totally gone. Thief 2 is gold tho!

[@ansatsu83]

Sooo.... my uncle (through marriage) was the release engineer for Looking Glass. I believe you mentioned his handiwork with the installers. He is credited as the Coffee Spokesmodel in most of their credits (in some form) due to his time around the coffee machine. His name is Dave Teichholtz. Hes currently developing stuff for a cosmetics company using python... he never was a gamer nor did he play the games he helped develop.

[@NthReview]

Neat!

[@pile_ofsalt]

@@NthReview I too do not get why was this important to let us know.

[@Jhakson]

That's awesome! Every once in a while the comments have secret insider tidbits you'll never see anywhere else

[@stanboyd1]

@@pile_ofsalt its not important sometimes its just a neat lil story someone thought to share.

[@catfancier270]

As a visually impaired person, Thief I and II are some of the few games I can actually beat (at least on easy with the gamma turned up). The combination of the rich colors, the reliance on sound, and the zoom-in when you aim make the game playable for me. I grew up with games and it’s so great to still be able to play a few.

[@casualcadaver]

I absolutely adore Thief the Dark Project. Its a masterpiece of atmosphere, tension and stealth. This is not nostalgia either as I first played it in 2013 not 1998. Very few games can engross me and make me feel immersed as Thief. Great video by the way im working my way through it.

[@sugoha_2548]

I played it in 2021when I was 18 and I was born in 2003 and I still loved thief 1 and 2. Definitely not nostaligia haha

[@KaptajnKaffe]

Dude! You have to play the dark parade! It is amazing and is a perfect addition to the dark project 😁

[@casualcadaver]

@@KaptajnKaffe I downloaded it day 1. I just need to find the time to play it. Thief is best played when you have long hours of uninterrupted peace

[@KaptajnKaffe]

@@casualcadaver totally agree! On another note, I am currently playing the dark parade with 2 kids in the house 🤣

[@casualcadaver]

@@KaptajnKaffe How are you liking it ?

[@mountainpepsi9991]

Only at 0:22 seconds in but this is already my favorite video of the year! I mean FIVE HOURS of Thief? You Taffer!

[@NthReview]

I hope you enjoy the rest too!

[@mountainpepsi9991]

@@NthReview So I just finished the whole thing. WOW! What a great video! I can't imagine how many hours you spent on making this. As a die-hard fan of the series, I found myself disagreeing with some of your points. But that is probably because these games have been a part of my life since I was three years old and they mean a lot to me :D Thanks to you, I'm going to replay Thief 2014 now. Keep up the great work!

[@NthReview]

Thank you! Next Review is well on the way....

[@Tristan3D]

To your theory about Erin being the girl at the end of Thief 3: No, she's not. I suspected that Thief 4 happens a few hundred years after the actual Garrett that we know from Thief 1 to 3, but for me the reasons why this isn't the girl or the Garrett from earlier games are not tied to the timeline. For example: When you go to the Moira asylum, you find a special loot near the end. It's a mechanical eye, it's a reference of course, but very likely the one of the original Garrett. Also: The Garrett we play in Thief 4 still has his biological eye. The original Garrett had lost his, which was replaced with a mechanical one. So Garrett from Thief 4 is not the original one... unless he can regrow an eye that is ;) Erin alludes to Garrett in one of those dream-scenes that they are brother and sister ("Big brother knows best"), and he swiftly replies in kind to that notion by being this same big brother ("I tried to tell you but you wouldn't listen"). Also a short scene is played where their father is heard berating them as kids (as seen in your video). The girl at the end of Thief 3 was a random girl trying to pickpocket the original Garrett, who seemingly never saw this girl before. So that is another reason why the girl is not Erin. All this makes the setup of Thief 4 problematic and implausible. Because: It is unlikely that a few hundred years down the line another Masterthief named Garrett emerges, and he totally by coincidence has a main-fence whose name is "Basso". Unless Basso is a family name, and the job as a fence is a family tradition handed down the centuries while the descendants remain in the exact same places is a thing here, I would say it is just not a good story design. I am all for reboots, but this is just ripping off the previous games for recognition while still trying to distance themselves so severely that we have to scratch our heads over it.

[@TCrag]

Thief 1 and 2 are exceptional, Thief 3 fell way short of the mark and we don't speak about Thief 4.

[@dennisrehrmann6710]

I watched Gopher raging and quitting Thief 4 for not having an AI at all. That was a sad realization.

[@quarreneverett4767]

There is no theif 4 and 3 isnt actualky that bad esoecially with commi ity.mod. lole how we have to mod theif 1 and 2

[@jeffbrownstain]

Did you even watch the video? 😂

[@zapan8748]

Thief 3 is still a great game, imo, it just can't compete with the two masterpieces that preceded it, but that doesn't make it bad, though it has its fair share of flaws (much smaller levels, no rope arrows, somewhat buggy/clunky animations, and so on). Didn't play Thief 2014, but I'm surprised that the author appreciated it, it's not well liked within the community.

[@ash8244]

Thief 4 is fun though lmao, perfectly fine game

[@ykcaks]

Rope arrows not only work on wood but all other soft surfaces, including carpet and soil. And they can stick to walls and even floors if they have a soft material.

[@NthReview]

I'm very curious, where would that be helpful?

[@ykcaks]

@@NthReview In a lot of places, most notably in The Sword and The Mage Towers. It's just that for such an in-depth review having such misinformation is quite odd.

[@NthReview]

@@ykcaks Well, I did mention in The Mage Towers that I did finally find some surfaces where I could intuitively pull out my rope arrows and it worked. I think somewhere in my research I read that it was only ceilings they worked on and, mentally, I wouldn't shoot other lateral surfaces to use them, like Vine arrows would end up doing. Thank you for pointing that out!

[@quarreneverett4767]

@@NthReview interesting stuff. I learned afew things from seeing what the youtibe videos from civie11 made as well

[@NthReview]

What's your favorite Thief game in the series? Do you have a favorite level/daring escape? Let me know below! ERRATA: In TDP, Rope Arrows will work on walls and ground surfaces, not just ceilings, provided they are compliant surfaces like soil or wood. I was incorrect here.

[@jeffseibel5555]

It is hard because the first three were so damn good. Metal Age for me.

[@NthReview]

Legit pick!

[@RobinOttens]

Dishonored 2 It's been a while since I played the Thief games. Last time I played through the trilogy, I remember liking the third game the best, despite all its issues. Never played the 2014 game though. Every time I see it, it looks beautiful. I kind of wanna try it some day just for the environment art. I tend to like the big mansion levels where you're mostly just thieving. And I remember the spooky, horror focused Shalebridge Cradle type levels really disappointed me.

[@nintom]

deadly shadows is MY best overall. lots of stealth options, eye candy that can still hold up (for me), atmosphere/sound/story. admittedly, I do need to go back to the first two sometime. waiting for an opportunity to get a proper surround system, or headphones though.

[@Pendragon667]

Just posted a comment before seeing your question but Thief 3 has always been my favourite. As for a favourite level... that's tough. I guess most people would say The Cradle from T3. Hmmm come to think of it T3 overall had some good levels. The Museum with the floating Eye at the end for example. Or the The House of the Widow Moira - i really liked this one. In Thief 1 it was the level where you'd have to steal the sword and T2 the eavesdropping in Karras's Tower, Angelwatch.

[@georgerobinson4654]

You deserve way more views with all the effort you put in!

[@NthReview]

Thank you so much!

[@awanderingauthor4957]

Bro it’s such an honor to be early to your rise There’s literally no way you don’t become a niche-leading content creator if you keep all this up

[@JS-pw8nr]

Na, I didn't make it past minute 3. The war in the Ukraine. Afganistan with 13 dead American's and two billion dollars in military supplies left to enemies of America. The worst economy since the 1980s. Gas prices at an historic all-time high, hurting all of America like a kick in the balls. Poverty stricken cities getting even more poor because of the bad economy and the list goes on and on. Let's go, Brandon. And if World War 3 does happen because of "Sleepy" Joe, it will be memorable all right, in blood and death. I'll bet that the entire Nation of Ukraine wishes that Joe had gotten caught stealing the election and shot for treason right about now, as their loved-ones die, because America today is too damn weak to save itself from the stupid, the insane, and the weak to save anyone now.

[@alexlokanin3312]

I am shocked how hard of a time you've had with gold... you've missed everything... it's not counterintuitive at all... Sabotage at Soulforge is the boss of stealth missions...

[@NthReview]

Blasphemy!

[@alexsm3882]

Hard disagree, either framed or LoTP

[@bethlou8162]

I just sat back and watched this like a movie, to echo the last comment you put SO much effort into this and I loved every minute of it. I’m a huge Thief (Metal Age) fan and just listening to you nerd out on all of the instalments (and with such delightful wit) just made me SO HAPPY and nostalgic for late nights as a kid getting freaked out and frustrated in equal parts by that game. Thank you, you are awesome. I want to go play it again RIGHT NOW.

[@NthReview]

Thank you so much!

[@mkahvi]

The maps were method of diegetic UI, kind of. You had maps drawn by people, from memory and their rough understanding of the world around them, not GPS views in a world with no satellite imaging. I love them. The better maps are because you gained access to an actual architect's designs.

[@Eyclonus]

I like that as mechanic concept, say for example you have an expert tier objective which is difficult to reach but gives you a very detailed map for the next mission, playing on hard the map you steal is missing a few details but still good. And on normal, there's no map to be found.

[@uhuhuh1966]

“They haven’t played Thief 2014...” uh...I most certainly did play it...twice. It was garbage both times.

[@hugodragno7569]

Hey, I like your essay of the thief-games. It is wondeful done and we can really see your passion. So thanks for that. But I also have to say, that some topics you criticize are for me personally the basics of the thief games. So for me some of your points are a little bit like playing a racing game and criticizing that you have to be fast in the game. But nevertheless I totally respect your point of view and I enjoyed this video a lot. I enjoy all your other videos right now as well and would like to encourage you to carry on. To make this happen, now you have one patreon more. So please carry on with your great work. At the end I have to mention, what everyone in my country mentions after speaking/writing in english: sorry for my bad english ;-) Take care dude!

[@NthReview]

Cheers!

[@thesidneychan]

You could whack the dead machines blocking your way into chunks you can pick up. It takes 9 hits with the blackjack. You could also kill them with the blackjack if you strafe or stunlock them.

[@hlatj7579]

When you were talking about how you couldn't play with stealth and got confused all the time I was very surprised and then you mentioned you were a games journalist so that explained that. Haha liked the review a lot though, a much more indepth and fair review of the overall quality of the game rather then how some reviews focus on exclusively story or mechanics independent of the other.

[@NthReview]

Ha, glad you enjoyed!

[@TRG_TheRantingGerman]

Thief 2014 Focus points is signifying that the game makers wanted you to do everything the game features, because even when you get all the glyphs and buy every single point from the Queen of Beggars, you are still one Focus Point short to unlock all of the perks. The only way to get the last point is to go around town and blast out all the "death-candles". Every time you shoot out one of those candles, a disembodied voce whispers something (like "Finally!", or "Thank you!"). When you have blasted all away (with the fire arrows), you get an award unlocked and you get the last focus point as a reward. This is so much of a hassle to do, that I doubt more than 1% of all players have this achievement in their steam account for this game at all. Of course, as the Thief nerd that I am, I do indeed have this achievement - I went for all the candles and I got 'em all.

[@chaoscontrolsok]

He fights through the first two game, why??? It is a stealth game, most levels are easy even on expert difficulty... You are Garrett a master thief not a killer!!! (That is why he is a MASTER Thief!)

[@NthReview]

Well, as I mention in the review, it's a mixture of spaces that are too tight, enemies that find you too easily in the darkness and it just being freaky-deaky. It's more the first game than the second.

[@chaoscontrolsok]

@@NthReview No! You need to use all the tools that the game provides, lean on corners, listen to noises and use the environment to your own benefit, so the Guards can't hear or see you!!! So you need to use moss and water arrows! And you can use even enemies against each other (living things vs Undead)... And the game is full off info on stuff, people and you can listen to the Guards as well (when you enter the kitchen you can read the note of Ramirez to his servent, and you can folow the servent to Ramirez secret room, but you have to be stealthy to do that!!! You made everythig more harder when you set up the alarm). And the maps are crap on the first game because they are old or people don't like to go to the place so Garrett can't find and get a full detailed map (old City and the seald area of the City, or the Crypt...). And you mised a lot of info on importent stuff (for exemple that Constantine payed pure Gold for his wired Mansion...). You have taken time in System Shock to find info why you didn't do that in this games? You where rushing things just to get trough, and that way you made your life more difficult! That's why you was not able to enjoy the Game! :(

[@duckfeet3912]

@@chaoscontrolsok He also made the comment that enemies respawn which is blatantly untrue. I agree that its strange for such a long video to be so poorly researched.

[@daniel5730]

I usually fight through most of supernatural levels in Thief Gold because it feels like the game gives you every tool to do so, and because sneaking past zombies is not that fun. I also don't kill burricks because they are kind of neat.

[@OmnomnomPancake]

This is some top-quality stuff you've delivered! I first discovered the series with an Official Xbox Magazine demo disc of Deadly Shadows in 2004 and have loved this series and the larger stealth genre ever since.

[@NthReview]

Glad you enjoyed! I got Deadly Shadows for my 20th birthday, the day I drove to work in a torrential rain storm and my car's alternator died, so a friend of mine and I were pushing it in ankle-deep water. Memories...

[@Immortalcheese]

This took me three days to watch but I am happy I watched it all. The most in-depth review of any series!

[@NthReview]

Thank you!

[@alexlokanin3312]

29:15: Garret has hearing! No other game did sound propagation so well or made it such a big focus. Garret can control the amount of noise he makes and his spatial hearing is exceptional. It's why you're able to play the game

[@NthReview]

I know!

[@alexlokanin3312]

@@NthReview well that's his superpower

[@quarreneverett4767]

@@alexlokanin3312 well remmeebr how the keepers picked him up as a kid. With. O experience avle to swioe from them. Now with training and experience so there is that

[@Toshiro_Mifune]

The fact that i was recomended this gem 2 years late, is a crime against me.

[@IdRadical]

Nice work. The memories came flooding in going when you started showing gameplay! I was totally satisfied with the game and Im totally ready for another thief 2 playthrough!

[@irdanwhou]

Fun, thorough review. I’m amazed how much of this I watched, speaks to your talent. I really enjoyed the subtle background audio of guards & Garrett screaming

[@NthReview]

Thanks!

[@HansAlRachid]

Man, the first two games and parts of the third are so goddamn good, aren't they? Really aged fantastically. Makes me so damn happy to hear people discuss and describe their thoughts on them. Thief 1 was the first game I ever had to drop as a kid because the dense atmosphere in the Bonehoard was just too scary for me, but even still, it stayed in my head for years afterwards. Once I actually did manage to play it all the way through, I was hooked. I must've played and replayed the first two a dozen times or so over the years. Great stuff, they just don't make 'em like they used to.

[@tzauron]

I'm so happy to have discovered this video. So comprehensive! Subscribed.

[@FesterSilently]

Only thirty minutes in(to this - sincerely - excellent video), but I am TRIGGERED by the amount of NOT-stealthing you've recorded. Like, outside of the dev photos/videos, it's ALL Garrett getting seen/chased/attacked. Moving on... :D EDIT: Love, love, LOVE your video reviews (watched/liked a half-dozen already!) and deconstructions; HARD disagree about Thief 1 & 2. And Thief (4) is...*not* a Thief game. It's a wonderful stealth-em-up...but it ain't a Thief game.

[@Wispmage]

Thank you for answering the one question I couldn't find an answer to in previous research: the relation (or lack thereof) between Randy and Harvey Smith.

[@NthReview]

You're very welcome :)

[@ehcmier]

It was such a FAQ over the past decades, I'm astounded you didn't find it in a quick search!

[@Wispmage]

@@ehcmier Admittedly I didn't spend very long looking. Checked their respective wikipedia pages and then decided I could live with not knowing haha

[@MarkRiches]

Yo! I'm the dude on reddit from yesterday praising your commitment to a 5 hour long video. Finally sitting down to watch this while I work from home. Really enjoying your style here. 16:04 made me laugh way too hard. "(robots") Love it dude and will be keeping an eye on your stuff! Good luck to ya

[@NthReview]

Glad you're enjoying it! There's plenty other stuff in there, too. Thank you and enjoy!

[@quarreneverett4767]

@@NthReview i loked the robots joke too

[@Citizen_JV]

I Love the Original Thief Series but Thief 2014, was an utter disappointment.

[@Iceblade423]

Re Garrett not noticing the situation in T1: Garrett is a selfish guy (why not given how most everyone in the world is primarily out for themselves) who wasn't interested in being a hero [anti-hero is the technical term]. Also, he probably become very jaded in his time with the Keepers given this most altruistic of factions in the setting actively avoid using the prophecies to do any good in the city. Further, the money was really good and he certainly didn't believe in the Hammer mythology. As a result, he didn't see the signs of anything weird or unusually supernatural going on around him. He certainly would become more cautious in future about deals too good to be true.

[@NthReview]

Interesting thought, but if he was familiar with the Keeper lore and then just decided to write it off as fiction... and then saw it actually coming to life, like, that's either intentional Trumpian arrogance or intentional stupidity. Either way, it makes me like Garrett substantially less despite his "redemption" through the trilogy.

[@GepardenK]

There's an interview with Ken Levine somewhere where he mentioned that he wanted Garret to be a "proper" anti-hero. Levine was disgruntled with the 'criminal with a heart of gold' trope and instead wanted to have a hero that was a true bad guy. We like Garret, not because he is likable, but because everything is viewed from Garretts perspective and Garrett loves himself. Garrett obviously knew Constantine was into magic and up to no good. He just didn't care - working for evil pays. He gets fooled because he's clearly more greedy than he is wise. This only gets confusing in retrospect as the sequels subtly start to move away from Levine's original vision for Garrett and make a more classical protagonist interpretation of him.

[@quarreneverett4767]

@@GepardenK good point about the greed over wisdom and a daah of pride

[@Tristan3D]

I remember in Thief 3 before the Sneaky Upgrade was even thought of by its creator, the only way to go to Pavelock Prison was by opening the grate in the Pagan Sanctuary in Auldale (you know, where this Hammerite - Inspector Drept - lives nearby and who you have to visit to advance the story about the hag) and jumping down into the water. This was the only water region that did not kill you, but instantly made the screen go black and the male voice announced you've been caught and you would now go to prison. Every other water surface of the game just killed you back then (that was years before the Sneaky Upgrade was developed). To be clear: I had no idea back then how to go to that prison at first, or that this prison even exists. I opened the grate by shear coincidence and by being nosy of what might be down there; then fell into the water below and found out. I expected Garrett to die, but as mentioned: He just goes to prison. That was not mentioned anywhere in the game. There were no hints that this was the "entrance" to the prison - you had to find it on your own, and you could only find it fairly far into the game, because access to Auldale is granted on day six of the Thief 3 story I believe, and not sooner, which is pretty late in the story. I always found that to be out of context, and I still believe going to prison through this grate in Auldale was some kind of unfinished or bugged way to end up in that special level. With the Sneaky Upgrade just about every water surface, regardless where you're at in the story, is getting you to prison. Once you've been there, the prison gate in South Quarter is open and from then on you can just enter it like any other area.

[@NthReview]

Very interesting! The game really does not present that kind of information at all.

[@Tristan3D]

@@NthReview Yes, indeed. Thinking of it: The prison level might have been cut in a sense from the game. I mean, because this strange way to go to prison is so out of order for this game, that it might very well be the case, that the developers just shut off all the water surfaces to get you to prison, except for this one in Auldale. They might just have overlooked it, because there is no other way to go to prison in the game without the Sneaky Upgrade (and even with that upgrade: You gotta have to jump into the water for that? What a strange way to go to prison). Anyway, since the Sneaky Upgrade is a single executable, the original unchanged game can still be loaded at any time... so it can be tested if this water below the grate really is the only place in the game to go to prison.

[@raresmacovei8382]

I was so taken by surprise when I accidentally fell in water and then awoken in prison. It was such a cool moment, even if it felt random.

[@markarato8034]

Love all the games, with the Metal Age having a special place in my heart. That game is almost heaven

[@catfancier270]

I felt like I actually visited The City, not that I played a game.

[@kilagorila]

For the original series' fans, pushing through 2014's painfully linear levels, eliminating player freedom wherever possible, and gazillion set pieces, is exactly the same pain as pushing through the dark project was for you. Not to mention scrapping the factions and in general a bogus, unconvincing storyline making it feel bland and unrewarding. Seriously, if the makers of 2014 said they were fans of the original series then I have no idea what the hell they had played :P I may disagree with many of your opinions, but still, watching a FIVE FREAKIN HOUR long review of Thief series is a delight. Great to see that even today it's still remembered and talked about not only by the hardcore fanbase. Cheers!

[@tisrich]

Got me fired up to dig out my games and start playing again! Thanks! BTW, ambitious project you did there. Congrats.

[@NthReview]

Thank you!

[@dantelacroix3042]

Had a wonderful time watching this. As someone played Thief 2014 first and the trilogy later, I'm sympathetic towards all of the 2014 slander, but also so very tired of it. I'm glad you gave it an unbiased look with different pros and cons. Great content 10/10

[@NthReview]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MrDumbRodent]

This is remarkable work! Excellent long form analysis, thank you.

[@NthReview]

You're welcome!

[@sethandseth2]

Very much disagree with your assertion that Deadly Shadows is the best in the trilogy (though I also don't think it's nearly as bad as people like to portray, even today) but I really like and appreciate your perspective on it and it's interesting what about it hooked you as opposed to the original two games

[@Killer91Rock]

i am completely baffled by the fact you dont have 6 digit subscribers, your production and writing is damn good. all the best lad

[@NthReview]

Thank you sir! Every last bit helps!

[@afterceasetoexist]

Personally disagree with numerous opinions in this video (mainly stuff pertaining to TDP), but even still, your respect and appreciation of these games is abundantly clear. Terrific video sir. Have a sub.

[@NthReview]

Thank you! Hope you enjoy the rest!

[@stephanieo.1160]

thief 3 deserves more love than it gets. I hope it gets re-analysed now that some time has passed and the scholarly analysis of it is more fair. I think people just really dogpiled on it when it came out and then consistently just compared it unfavorably to 1 and 2 without recognizing all the things 3 did really well, even better than the first two games. it feels like fans of the series never gave 3 a fair shake. It's definitely my favorite of the series.

[@NthReview]

Agree 100%. PC gamers at the time were really getting irritated about games beginning to become developed with consoles at the same time and some of the trade-offs thay came with it. DS really got the brunt of it back then, especially after how poorly Invisible War handled.

[@Pendragon667]

Just posted a comment and then saw yours. And couldn't agreee more. Thief 3 is for me, 'til this day, the best installment of the series.

[@dipanjanghosal1662]

@@NthReview please do an Alien 2013 review. I think you'll love it. Its a great stealth/horror game.

[@Thunar7]

the controls were clunky and third person made it impossible to react as fast as the first 2 games, that's what annoyed me the most in that game, but it was a good game

[@quarreneverett4767]

Yeah its been getting picked up. I started it maybe year or so sgo still working on it as ibeen busy. Its not that oad. I also using the fan patches from 1 2 and 3

[@nintom]

the 5+ hours flew by! haha glad to hear more love for deadly shadows; its a very underrated game. as for 2014, I wonder why you didn't mention the sound issues at all. it is a very glaring issue, and seems to be an injustice toward the series. I feel the overall review was fair, and the title comparisons through it all, even while the focus is on a specific one, really engaged me more. also the lore bits are basically dopamine lolz. again, thanks for the efforts of you, and your crew. looking forward to more!

[@NthReview]

Thanks! I have 13 other reviews after that, lol

[@raresmacovei8382]

The sound mixing in Thief 2014 is a complete travesty.

[@ight_of_heart]

Theftmatch sounds really pog. Imagine sneaking together through a guarded mansion and you have to balance greed and time and risk getting exposed.

[@NthReview]

Totally! Ever play Monaco? Similar vibes.

[@ight_of_heart]

@@NthReview thanks for suggestion! apparently monaco 2 is coming soon, now in stunning 3D

[@TitaniumAlloyz]

Glad you plugged this video in your system shock retrospective. 3 hours in and enjoying it immensely.

[@NthReview]

Glad to hear it!

[@FerrisArgyle13]

ah yes my favorite type of KZbin video about thief. I couldn't be happier right now

[@NthReview]

Yay!

[@MetalTaffer]

I'm really enjoying the video so far, even if I disagree with your points most of the time. A lot of people already mentioned some of the innacuracies, so I won't go there. Maybe I got the wrong impression, but I believe the reason you had so many "where the hell do I go" moments is because you lacked patience and atention. I hate to be the "you're playing it wrong" guy, but looking at your gameplay footage it's hard not to, with all the sword fighting, enemy killing (it IS a STEALTH game after all), not using the tools that are given to you (moss arrows, compass, etc.) and others. I realize I have the benefit of having played these games to death, but even when I first played them, back in 2013, I didn't get as disoriented as you. A more recent and better example is a friend of mine who played Thief 1/2 for the first time last year and even he didn't have that much trouble figuring out what to do. But hey, I know these titles are quite niche and not for everyone, so it's all good. I hope I didn't come off as rude and condescending, because, again, I'm really liking the video so far. It's a really impressive effort, which deserves all the props I can give! Cheers!

[@NthReview]

Thank you for the reply!

[@MetalTaffer]

@@NthReview Just finished the Thief 2 chapter. Not gonna lie, the "Sabotage at Soulforge is the worst mission in the series" statement kinda pissed me off. Also, Garrett wanting to know more about the prophecies is not sudden, it's something that slowly develops throughout the game, starting with his willingness to go eavesdrop the meeting between Karras and Truart. It's developed even more with his alliance with Viktoria, culminating with the Soulforge incident. A little sidenote: Karras not knowing about the servants' return makes sense. Mechanist technology may be advanced when compared to the Hammerites, but it's not like he has tracking devices or computer screens... The Watchers aren't actual cameras. They're just that: watchers. Still a good video though. I appreciate your honesty. I'm excited to see the rest! :)

[@NthReview]

@@MetalTaffer Surprisingly, no one's had an actual conversation with me about Soulforge, yet! I personally find it harder to believe that Karras was ignorant of pretty much everything we're talking about, but somehow had tabs on Garrett when it was Victoria performing all the action in the opening cutscene. I know I'm not alone on Soulforge, but I understand it has its defenders and I'm not mad at them for it ;)

[@MetalTaffer]

@@NthReview Yeah, when it comes to Soulforge I'm more in the middle. I don't love it or hate it... I merely tolerate its existence. I just don't think it's worse than the Thieves' Guild, for example. It had a really cool System Shock-ish vibe, though. But I do agree that it really overstays its welcome. Remember that Karras wasn't all there by the end of the game, even developing a god complex. I don't think it's too far fetched to assume he was too consumed by his own ego to notice any possible foil to his plan.

[@NthReview]

@@MetalTaffer I agree that Karras was really egotistical, to the point that he could have been blinded by it, but really, if it weren't for Garret's intervention, he would've gotten away with such a large plan with pretty much zero opposition. Thieves Guild is a really, really rough level, absolutely, but I did feel it was more on-point philosophically and design-wise, whereas Soulforge really just felt like a grab-bag of whatever they could put together in the last moments of development.

[@MICKEYrenraw]

On the Dark engines lighting system, it seems to be able to handle dynamic lighting as holding a notched fire arrow lights up the space around the player, like wise shooting it lights the area around it as it travels

[@thesummerofmark]

Outstanding video, I can't imagine how much work it took, and with a full time job on top of that! I can't wait to see more longform critiques from you

[@NthReview]

Thank you! If you haven't already, check out the other reviews, I think you'll like them!

[@thesummerofmark]

@@NthReview Been a longish time viewer, actually. I found your channel when YT recommended me your Deus Ex critique. Actually, after watching that, you inspired me to do my own critique of the series, but I gave up after I saw how hard Deus Ex is to record lmao

[@NthReview]

@@thesummerofmark What issues are you having? After getting the game patched up, I used the Nvidia's ShadowPlay to capture the footage.

[@thesummerofmark]

@@NthReview I record/play games on a laptop, and the "record desktop" Shadowplay feature or whatever people use for old games is not available on laptops. And the footage is super laggy/blurred if I record with OBS

[@NthReview]

@@thesummerofmark Huh, interesting. I used to use the Xbox game bar that comes with Windows 10 (Windows Key + X) but the audio would start to get weird from time\ to time. You notice this in the Alan Wake review.

[@lunanyx8592]

The Asylum in (2014) scared the hell out of me. Every time I peered into a key whole I expected a jump scare. By the time I got to the Asylum I let my guard down, and that's when they got me with the jump scare. I know that jump scares are cheap but that one in particular was very clever. Leading up to the Asylum I felt like a Master Thief, ever in control of myself and the environment around me. In the Asylum I felt like a terrified little mouse forced to hide from ghosts and monsters. My memories of the game my not be totally accurate because it's been a while since I've played it, but I remember it being truly terrifying.

[@azraphon]

Thief Deadly Shadows is absolutely underrated! What made me mad about the reboot was that they didn't go with the small girl who tries to pickpocket Garrett. They called the main character Garrett, robbed him of all of his personality and distinctive voice, for what?

[@azraphon]

Oh, and they say 'fuck' not 'taff'. No thanks.

[@raresmacovei8382]

You can sort of see how Thief 2014 tries to be both a sequel and a reboot. Erin is clearly the girl from the end of Thief 3. And there are hints of mechanists in the game, even if as a faction they don't exist.

[@azraphon]

Sabotage at Soulforge ROCKED.

[@azraphon]

Overlook Manse is amazing! Clams 'n' Noodles baby

[@NthReview]

Soulforge!? Yuck!

[@azraphon]

@@NthReview The weird thing is, I pretty much agree with almost all of your criticisms about the level! I still love it overall though. It's a bit better than swapping out the Eye in Dark Project.

[@RobinOttens]

Only watched the first hour so far. This is one to watch in parts. But man, I love all the development trivia and the bits about the series' influence on later games and studios. It's really interesting.

[@NthReview]

Glad you're enjoying it!

[@RobinOttens]

Finished it. I'm glad to see my vague memories of liking Deadly Shadows the best, were somewhat legitimate. Though man, Thief Deadly Shadows and Deus Ex Invisible War suffered from some really poor interface design and awkward feeling gameplay. Looking at it as a Splinter Cell competitor makes a lot of sense, but third person movement was clearly not their specialty. And you convinced me to give the 2014 game a chance. It's pretty clear they changed direction multiple times during that game's development. It sounds like it was designed as a more direct sequel at some point, and then they decided to make the story connections more vague?

[@R1ddle]

Haven't watched anything yet but I'm downloading this to fall asleep to for the next 2 months as I make my way through it. Enjoy like 40 views man :)

[@alexsm3882]

I loved the video, as I love any in depth review of this franchise, but you did get quite a few things wrong. I won't get into it as a lot of people have mentioned most of them, but Thief 4 has nowhere near the same quality of sound design, nor can you rely on sound in the same way you can with the other games.

[@NthReview]

Yeah, the audio of 4 isn't as functional as the others, no, but I appreciate you watching!

[@azraphon]

You know what? I've only ever played the demo of 2014. You've convinced me to give it another shake.

[@NthReview]

I would recommend it! It's not the greatest, but it's hardly trash by leagues. Fans were very harsh

[@azraphon]

@@NthReview I enjoyed the demo, though I got the same impression you seem to about how sometimes the game holds your hand a little much. It is gorgeous though, the city during a rainstorm was spine tingling.

[@copperboltwire320]

at 3:14:28 when you deactivate the drill after activating it, you'll find a small gem on the ground near the tip of the drill, so it's not just a gimmic but a small little reward for poking buttons ;)

[@HarleyHerbert]

There's also a note nearby that a mechanist wrote that mentions how he discovered this but wishes to keep it to himself for his own benefit, hinting that the player too can take advantage of this

[@box5evey]

late to the party BUT- i do kinda love the dark project's approach to maps. like, have you ever tried to draw a map of a place you've (best case) been to once or (worst case) your drunk cousin has been to once, a while back? i fully acknowledge that it's not everyone's cup of tea but i do like the (admittedly silly) realism there. really enjoying your videos!

[@NthReview]

Thank you!

[@Turbiales]

"It's gorgerous despite being six year's old" Oh man, I feel so fucking old.

[@NthReview]

And this review is almost two years old…

[@Tristan3D]

Oh, and: To destroy the glyph key seal in Thief 3 (that you have found in Orland's bedroom), I always bring it down to the dining room and toss it into the fireplace - saves you a fire arrow.

[@NthReview]

I guess that's one way to do it, too!

[@andreworders7305]

Assasin's Creed a stealth game? Pffffft, barely. Eagle, tell me where every single enemy is at all times!

[@nintom]

I was hyped af for AC. then played it and was like.. where is the stealth?! so it was a resounding meh.

[@Tristan3D]

In Thief Deadly Shadows, the Victrola with Karras' voice you seek is in the main hall ("Tesero Hall"), where the big statue with the amulet around its neck is situated at. Also: I don't like the time limit of the electrical traps in the museum, so I use a water arrow on the insulators, which turns off the electricity for 10 seconds or so, and grab the stuff I need. You can use oil flasks to make Gamall fall down slopes. You then can take a good look at her, because she's not getting up again; just laying on the ground.

[@NthReview]

Your comments and insight are amazing. Cheers!

[@ssjAnnaPaquin]

3:04:55 you can actually hear the conversation at normal volume if you face the side of your head towards the door and then lean into it with the Q or E key. Pretty cool.

[@CraftyArts]

Gonna end playing thief 2014 someday because of you now after messing around with the stand alone Dark Mod Fantastic work

[@NthReview]

Thanks!

[@antoucool]

Here it is! Came to support from reddit.

[@NthReview]

Yay!

[@zedre7633]

It was interesting to fully watch a review from someone who has some _very_ different opinions about the first two games as me, but also some similar opinions about the last two. And that's as someone who only played them blind a few months ago so there's no hardcore period nostalgia. Guess I'm lucky to have enjoyed all four equally. Cheers!

[@juliusschmitt3483]

Never played any thieves games. I think I might change this after fully watching the video so hopefully next year

[@NthReview]

Cheers! They're cheap and easy to get!

[@Rastrelly]

Though I do agree on many points on Thief issues, there is one single BUT that stopped me from watching the material further from the end of Thief 1 deep dive and further. Absolute majority of issues the author got himself into *were on him.* Especially with Ramirez situation, which was hilarious. The entire point of the game is to stay out of sight and make as low of a noise as possible - even in zombie missions. Never using moss arrows and different noisemakers and abusing combat is the cause of most issues the author got into. Despite the appearance, all the enemies DO have all the states of usual guards, and you need to use those to your advantage. Otherwise the game inevitably mutates into a clusterfuck of piles of corpses, some of which are key to the mission in hand. Skipping the Haunted Cathedral is a crime against gaming in of itself.

[@NthReview]

I admit to a chunk of that being on my part in the aside, but there is a ton of obtuse and clunky gameplay in that first game that is really inexcusable. That said, you really should watch the rest of the video because subsequent games fix the issues I had with the first game and highlight why that game’s problems are uniquely that game’s and why I loved the subsequent games so much more. Stick with it.

[@jasonarchambault2347]

The tapestry slashing actually makes its first appearance in the first mission (Lord Baffords Manor) when you follow a secret passage way to the throne room area blocked by a hanging tapestry. But other then those two instances, you are right that they don’t appear again in the first game like that

[@rochr4]

"Thats not how I remember it!" - I gigled a lot during Your take on TTDP but then I played it in the era when it was absolutely stunning and ground breaking, never before I felt so engaged in a game and that was it, gobelins to cut with a sword? I got that after a few seconds probably? I guess it goess for all stuff made for totally other audiences, much respect You did endure and gave birth to this video.

[@PlasticCogLiquid]

I never get tired of video's about the Thief games :D

[@ViRatio]

I finished this video, no skips. One of the best video i’ve seen, thank you.

[@NthReview]

You're very welcome!

[@edgytheedgehog8618]

Still within the first 2 hours of the video, and I can already see I'm going to disagree with a lot of what you say. Personally, I fell in love with The Dark Project as soon as I got into the third mission, and ever since then, I've considered it the best stealth game ever. With its horror elements, unique ambience and aesthetic and crazy mission design, it's unmatched by the rest of the series (though I've yet to play 2014). This is coming from someone who's only fully played it twice, by the way. I also need to say (as many others have commented below, I'm sure) that the way you play the games (especially TDP) is INFURIATING. Definitely recommend you replay the first two games on Expert on a later date, focusing more on stealth. Savescumming isn't scumming at all, in these games. Just go for it. All that being said, let me go back to the video. This content is high effort dude, very impressive.

[@NthReview]

There's definitely some agree-to-disagree here, but if the stealth in TDP worked better, if I COULD effectively hide in so many spots, if the game WASN'T so obtuse with its objectives and directives, it would be a better game. And I know this because they fixed this with the every game that followed and that's why I like them better. *shrug*

[@edgytheedgehog8618]

@@NthReview I can see your points, I guess. It's not like I *wasn't* frustrated when I first played TDP, I remember it being very confusing a lot of the time, and I definitely used guides. The frustration felt like part of the experience to me, though, like you're supposed to play it a 2nd time when you know your way around... which is why I personally believe your evaluation of TDP might be elevated on a replay. Well, opinions are opinions, regardless.

[@NthReview]

@@edgytheedgehog8618 and i don’t disagree that it’s a better game on a second play through when you’ve already done all the hardest work to figure it out, but I shouldn’t have to play a game over and over until I like it. TDP was so repulsive to play at times that I almost gave up reviewing it. The most severe replies I get here all seem to overwhelmingly be by the apologists, which I mention in this review, who have gotten so used to the game and it’s quirks that they do have solutions to every problem and exact ways to play it right and any flaws they may have had are lost to time. Scouring a level for hours to find an unmarked body is suuuuuper shitty, but if you know exactly who it is and how the mechanics work and can accomplish the task immediately, obviously it isn’t anymore. I just didn’t want to sugarcoat my experience just to appease some hardcore fans. I acknowledge I get some things objectively wrong, like the rope arrows or whatever, but that’s missing the point because those are my nitpicks that stand beside my huge problems with at least that first game. Cheers!

[@jayceneal5273]

this was a fantastic video. I too think Deadly Shadows is super underrated. I love that game so much

[@NthReview]

It really is! Thank you!

[@STOPTHECLOWNS581]

Man I miss hardcore stealth games that are made with quality. I think the last true challenging stealth game was Styx Master of shadows

[@LillyxTopaz]

I hated 2014 because they really destroyed the lore of the first three (for me). I don't know how or why but I fell in love with the Hammers and the Pagan factions and was so SO sad when they just tossed it out the window. I liked the zombies. Hated killing them, but liked how weird it was that they were there, in a stealth game. Lots of nods to the first games, but it felt insulting to have the Thief name slapped onto it. Also I loathed the city, finding those tiny narrow loading screen passages made me want to scream, it was a maze and all the gritty dark everything just looked identical to me. Dishonored is the spiritual successor to the games for me, but I think your video convinced me to finally purchase that mouse stealth game I've had on my steam wishlist forever. Amazing video. I can't believe I watched five hours of this. I can't believe how many hours you put into this.

[@NthReview]

Thank you so much! Glad you 2atched and enjoyed the entire thing lol

[@HalasterBlackmantle]

I think the problem is that Thief is all about the details. Especially on higher difficulty, you have to investigate each and every nook and cranny in the level. Things like the Hand of Glory are obtuse by choice (we can argue if it's a good choice or not ;-) ), as those side objectives are either for people who already know the mission and want an additional challenge or are for players that would investigate everything. It's really not surprising that you struggled with the higher difficulties (and other aspects of the game) as they really require patience and attention.

[@NthReview]

They do require patience and attention, which is fine, but it’s clear from the sequels that, especially with TDP, this was a league too far and they dialed back the obtuseness of it all.

[@1521Palm]

I don't know man. All the prisoners names are in the ledgers, cell number and all. Felt straight forward to me at 13 years of age, and not being a native english speaker. Sure it requires you to think for yourself and pay attention I'll give you that.

[@jackotears8692]

Fuck yeah, I'm glad someone else loved 'Deadly Shadows'; it makes me so sad when other fans defame it.

[@slowmercy69]

You can put zombies down in all 3 Thief games, and if you don't touch them they don't get up The same applies to the enemies in Shalebridge Cradle

[@DB-lp2be]

My first thief game was deadly shadows I love the narration of that game

[@Marauder1981]

Are you shitting me?! sabotage at soulforge was a master piece. It put all you skills that you learned throughout the game to the text in a massive complex level. most game devs of today put as much effort in a single game!

[@NthReview]

It was a miserable slog unworthy of the Thief name! (Throws chair)

[@thedannycage]

You deserve a lot more subs, your content is amazing

[@NthReview]

I appreciate that! Thank you!

[@MAJ0R_TOM]

"Thief 4 fan plays older games, seethes in bewilderment at having to read".

[@NthReview]

I actually didn't play the Thief remake until after I had beaten all of the previous games.

[@MAJ0R_TOM]

@@NthReview It's just a shorthand expression for the type of game you gravitate towards. We don't have to be literal about everything.

[@NthReview]

@@MAJ0R_TOM I guess, but it also implied that I was a fan of that game first and then just used modern standards/quality of life improvements over the past 22 years to rag on the older games when I spent plenty of time ragging on those games on their own merits and problems. So, eh.

[@MAJ0R_TOM]

@@NthReview *Some of their own merits and problems. Your biggest issues with the first 2 games are not the fault of their design, they simply aren't for you, while Thief 4 is more what you're looking for. But you tried to make your minor frustrations out to be objective faults of the deliberate design of those games, especially Thief 1.

[@NthReview]

The first game. I rather enjoyed The Metal Age despite its rushed ending.

[@zafelrede4884]

1:22:57 You never used moss arrows? When i played through Thief 1&2 i used them all the time, super useful to reliably create a silent path over stone or metal, for example if you want to blackjack a particularly annoying grunt.

[@NthReview]

Eh, nah. It was always easier in my head to just save scum and blackjack than strategically layout moss.

[@zafelrede4884]

@@NthReview I had the same experience with Thief 1 as you did, i liked the game technically, but it was often times a chore to get through. I think this is the type of game that you have to play with hindsight. As you said, fans of Thief have played the game multiple times. I think they don't even remember their first time playing it. I think if i played through it again i would enjoy myself a lot more. However, to play through it for the first time is really something i had to force myself to.

[@NthReview]

Yeah, definitely. I mention it on yesterday's stream (Fallout and Chill) where reviewing games as old and as reputable as Thief 1 and 2 is kind of a minefield. With my Deus Ex review, the game was great when it came out and it was great when I played it for the third time all the way through last year, so I made a positive review that fans could like and that was that. But fans of those old Thief games don't really want to see a video that's critical of a game they love and have intense nostalgia for when their memories are probably a bit more rosy than they'd like to admit. So they see my struggles, especially with TDP and they look at it with decades of acquired knowledge and replays, and they come and downvote this video. It's a vicious nostalgia.

[@tommat86]

@@NthReview Oh, come on, is it so hard to grasp that there are people who simply prefer the first game? Sorry, but the "it's old, therefor your opinion is null and void because NOSTALGIA" triggers me hard! I played Thief 1 and 2 over the past two years and really liked them, especially the first one! I did shortly play T1 back in the days when it was released, but as the kid I was then I never made it past the zombies in the second mission, so pretty much all the missions were new to me... People have different tastes, and that is fine so I'm not going to elaborate where I disagree with you, but it simply (for the most part) has nothing to do with nostalgia.

[@NthReview]

@@tommat86 I get that people like the first game, but it doesn’t render my criticisms of it invalid

[@nerdineverythingnerdinnoth4984]

Nice video. One of the only things, I‘m astounded you didn‘t mention was the directional sound. I never played Thief 2014, but from what I‘ve heard it‘s not the Jump, maybe a little the long animations, but rather the lesser directional sound of Thief 2014 that bothered so many. I haven‘t yet played the game, and maybe should, but I first want to finish the trilogy, so take what I said with a grain of salt.

[@NthReview]

There are others that have mentioned this and I wasn't able to find any information about it because by 2014, so much of the sound/AI/etc. could be handled by middleware. People had plenty of complaints about the game, but I don't think it was any one thing that did it.

[@sinenomine4540]

thief 2014 had broken sound unfortunately.

[@davidpeterson4849]

I could be mis-remembering this but one of my favorite moments of emergent gameplay in T1 or T2 (both?) was playing with no kills. If I remember this correctly, the City map levels contained canals and some other maps contained other bodies of water. You could knock out an opponent with a blackjack then "hide" the body by dropping the unconscious person in the drink. You'd hear them gulp a few times and eventually drown but somehow their status remained unconscious. If the mission difficulty limited the number of deaths, you weren't penalized for being a serial drowner. Plus was that guards never found the bodies.

[@quarreneverett4767]

From what i seen and shown on the youtuber civie11 channel. It does count as a death and does count to a kill count

[@SteveAkaDarktimes]

"this is a very serious review." One hour, thirty six minutes later. "HYPNOWAVES."

[@NthReview]

That's right, buddy. I said hypno waaaavvvveeesss

[@ddazzla27]

That Picture Describing Joe Biden as a Jolly gift to the year didnt age well 🤣🤣🤣

[@NthReview]

lol, like that other guy inspiring an insurrection and getting indicted on state and federal charges and facing death in prison? lol omg.

[@ddazzla27]

Uh Oh lefty alert! That says it all.... In your low IQ brain it Automatically means I support Trump when Im critical of Biden..... Nice job with the self Own!@@NthReview

[@IvanNOFX]

02:27:08 I don't think it's a Gold addition. You can slash the banners in all levels, and they can sometimes hide a secret behind them. There is one banner in the Lord Bafford's Manor that hides a shortcut to the room with the scepter. There is one in the later stages of the prison level as well, in the offices that reveals that one of the high-ranking builders has a drinking problem.

[@Yora21]

4:00 In the spirit of Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Get on with it!"

[@WinterDominus]

Ahhh, good old Thief 🥰 Replayed the first two like 1,5 year ago and craving for another round sometime soon. Personally, I love 1 the most (got the same sentiment Quake 1). It's interesting to hear of your experiences and opinions 👍

[@LXXVIIZONE]

How am I just finding this channel !!!!! Seriously, I commend you for sticking through the bullshit algorithm and creating amazing content !!! Keep it up ❤️

[@NthReview]

Thank you! Getting this algorithmic love this past week has really been a blessing!

[@BaselardFE]

Watched this in one sitting whoops haha. Great stuff, I really liked the different perspective you provided. I was also one of those who started with Thief 2014 and then went back to play the trilogy. I know it's the worst one, but I still appreciate it for getting me into this franchise :)

[@connectivitytissues1429]

Just bought Thief (2014) (xbox one x) Thank you for the one of very few analysis of specifically 2014, and Thief in general.

[@NthReview]

Thank you! It didn't seem fair at all to leave it out when so many other critics ignore it.

[@connectivitytissues1429]

@@NthReview having never played the o.g. series, and falling in love with splinter cell, mgs, ect... your video helped seal the deal. I will enjoy Thief for what it is... thank you for your help.

[@paullambert9720]

Dear lord, the original 2 games were about my favourite ever video games, I struggle to understand how the series latterly went so far off course…

[@slowmercy69]

Whoa it took you 5 months! That's some dedication ❤