The Last of Us Episode 9 Finale Reaction

THE LAST OF US EPISODE 7 REACTION! "Left Behind"
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[@emiliomorales8507]

The actress that played Ellie's mother Anna at the beginning, Ashley Johnson, is the voice Actress and motion capture for Ellie in the video game.

[@thedarkstarr11]

Laura Bailey who played a nurse in that scene AND plays a...character..in the sequel played a nurse in the OR when Joel found Ellie. Basically the same role.

[@casluvs]

@@thedarkstarr11WAIT is that who I think it is??? 2nd game???

[@imlillard5167]

@@casluvs 😅yup

[@thedarkstarr11]

@@casluvs OH YEAH. Hehe...

[@bigpoppa3999]

​@@casluvs yeah the real hero of the story

[@tnk1041]

8:04 funny thing actually is that they had an actual giraffe as a stand in that scene LMAO

[@sultanichlasulamal1152]

wait its not cgi?

[@Hawk-bx8fd]

@@sultanichlasulamal1152 no

[@jakimgamesroleplay8486]

@@sultanichlasulamal1152 Cgi it was only the environment behind it. The take with the giraffe scene was real.

[@OnlyMsNicky]

That's fkin amazing. I knew it looked real but wasn't 100% sure.

[@hollowkid97]

Yeah I guess it was a lil too high quality cgi for a tv show.

[@mirotrevino9662]

Rob with the massive L take saying Ellie isn't Joel's daughter. They have been together for months and have both saved each other's lives multiple times. That's like saying a step parent or foster parent aren't real parents. If you love and nurture the child and do everything that you can to protect them then they are yours.

[@OnlyMsNicky]

Yea, he likes to have those type of takes. I've learned this about Robb. Even when he's wrong he will double down on his thinking lol

[@Cert1f1edM1dget]

I wonder if his perspective would be different if he played the game. I found the game did a better job at portraying their relationship.

[@Leonardo-po7ht]

@@Cert1f1edM1dget No it wouldn't, lol. He likes to have some weird takes

[@LovedByYou]

Rob stays taking L lmao

[@strbrrymochii]

That's why we don't take Rob seriously. Have a lot of L takes ever since bro

[@NoCallerId.7]

This episode hits different fr, Now that I’m a father I understand Joel’s decision. Was it right? No but A lot people don’t understand the emotional and mental trauma Joel went through after losing his daughter. Mans was finna knock his own top off. Like you know no love like the love you share for your child!

[@itbechelsea]

The show runners have spoken about that a lot. This show is about love, and love can bring about wonderful things, but there is also a dark side of love. Love can make us do unimaginable things.

[@GenghisWanghis]

It also glossed over just how twisted the fireflies are and made Joel look way more bloodthirsty than the game

[@brucesnow7125]

Exactly. It's a messed up and selfish choice, but a choice any good parent would make.

[@noelle5128]

@@GenghisWanghis that’s true but the game also does a good job showing that there aren’t really any good guys. We all have a bad side and they really hone in on that in part 2

[@alih3728]

That world didn't deserve to be saved. Especially at the expense of a child. Plus the fireflies would of just kept the vaccine for themselves and knock out the enemies or whomever else. They not good people also.

[@Andjelka99]

That half a video argument about that end also happened when game was out and its one of the reasons why it's such a good good story. Thought provoking, emotions and morality. Man this show was fire

[@nobodyexceptme7794]

Daughter or step daughter...gotta remember ellie literally saved his life multiple times during that journey not to mention all the loss and bonds they formed. Same way soldiers bond real quick during combat and be loving they squad over everybody because that's who was in the dirt with them when bullets were flying....Joel and Ellie actually would have a deeper connection than a normal father/daughter.

[@thedarkstarr11]

A daughter is a daughter. Blood or not.

[@asuraaa_html]

yeah, it doesn’t matter. in a apocalyptic world no one is gonna care about being blood related or not. they shown that clear as day when tommy wasn’t gonna do that favor for joel bc he was gonna be a father, despite joel and tommy brother. ellie not being blood to joel does not matter

[@3COI]

Even if Ellie never saved him, you can't care for a child and not go all the way up for them when their life is on the line. 6 months is a long time, especially when yall are spending entry day depending on each other for survival. Joel did what he should've done

[@tomv2063]

Yeah I was bothered when dude on the far right said she’s not his biological daughter as if that mattered to pertaining a father/daughter relationship. While I do understand where Joel is coming from, I do think Ellie should’ve gotten the say on the matter overall.

[@3COI]

@@tomv2063 I agree that she should've gotten a say. The problem was that the people trying to cut her brain apart were gonna kill her regardless of what she said, which is why they didn't bother asking her. The doctor was even dumb enough to pick up a tiny knife in a gun fight bc they wanted her dead that badly

[@301baby4l]

The fact that they brought the voice actors of Ellie, Joel, Tommy, Marlene and Abby in one season is phenomenal

[@oksobasicallyimmonky]

"Why don't they show the bottom of the giraffe then?" "Because he's tall" 😭😭😭

[@itsleinaa]

34:00 Developing a love for a child is way more common and possible than a connection with an adult because of the sole fact that they are a child, you have a natural instinct to protect them

[@azinoodhomi4419]

It was tough in 2013, and it's still tough in 2023. Obviously, the right thing to do was to give up Ellie to the Fireflies. But: 1. Marlene said, "It MIGHT lead to a cure." So you're telling Joel to risk Ellie on a possibility? 2. Just as Evan said, the logical thing is to save the many, but we don't think logically when it comes to protecting what's ours. For better or worse, Joel sees Ellie as his family now. That's why this dilemma is brilliant: there are no easy decisions here.

[@Taewills]

I thought about replicating it too 😂 Marlene had months to make lab babies- shit she could’ve gotten herself knocked up and bit leaving the order for her people to operate on her own child 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@bigpoppa3999]

Yes sacrifice her for the greater good is the only option in my opinion no matter how small the chance is. She definitely should have handled it differently tho. They did escalate the situation by treating Joel that way. But still I'm team Marlene on this one. I do understand Joel tho.

[@gphillimo]

The logical thing was to tell Ellie what they needed to do to maybe get a cure, and let her decide if she wants to sacrifice her life or not

[@bigpoppa3999]

​@@gphillimo she would have said yes but yeah they should have asked. Joel would go ape regardless tho.

[@azinoodhomi4419]

@gphillimo how though? She was already on the operating table by the time Joel awoke from being flashbanged and concussed. The fireflies were trying to act big but, as usual, the showed their incompetence.

[@simw4631]

Amazing discussion at the end. I laughed wayyyy too much! I’m totally on Evan’s side with this! You can’t base the love you feel for a child depending on whether it’s yours biologically or not. It’s selfish but it’s what any parent would do

[@TheThetaMan]

🎯 🎯

[@gunnar4915]

Mfs act like a cure solves all of humanity’s problems It doesn’t actually change anything😂 Human population has been slashed and society is in anarchy, a cures not fixing that

[@lashebawinston4906]

Nobody's scooping my baby girl's brain out on a potential cure; Marlene said the doctor THINKS, not the doctor knows the procedure would work!!! FUCK THAT NOISE!!!💀💀💀

[@human6990]

I personally would't let it happen even if they were a 100% sure it would work.

[@karrotakun3581]

They left this out of the show, but in the game you find an audio tape in the hospital of the doctor talking about how they've had at least seven other immune people go through this surgery. Each time they died and no cure came from it. So yes, in the game Joel is far more justified.

[@Axxidous]

That is true. I knew I remembered correctly that Ellie was, FOR SURE, going to die, but was NOT FOR SURE going to lead to successful results.

[@brandonv6905]

that wasnt in the game. The hospital tapes literally included how marlene found out that taking the cordyceps out of Ellie's brain would kill her, she didnt know beforehand and there was no mention of other immune people. Maybe this was in Last of Us 2 but not in the first.

[@gobucky100]

Actually it’s stated on the recorder by Dr. Andersen that there are other immune, but Ellie’s immunity was unique hence the renewed hope at finding a cure.

[@RichterCabello]

That's... not in the game??? Why would you lie about this😭😭

[@bantoanthony]

@@gobucky100bro what the fuck are you saying??? This does not happen in the game 😂

[@bawzzzz]

LMAO the fireflies DID LIE to Elllie as well. That's the point.

[@hamadalkaabi2160]

But joel also lied he never gave her a choice he did the same thing that the firefly did instead he wasted millions of lives

[@bawzzzz]

@@hamadalkaabi2160 Yes we know that, that's the point.

[@dontreadmyprofilepicture8817]

@@hamadalkaabi2160 Boy way to state something completely obvious.

[@kevinmatthew1050]

Ellie is like a daughter to him and there is no guarantee the cure would even work. He's not willing to lose another daughter for something that's not even a guarantee. I totally understand his choice.

[@brendatomines8171]

For me ok you're saying Joe choose for her, but the firefly also didn't gave her a choice, and it not like this cure would work for sure, this is the last doctor, but is he really capable to do that? Was he a good doctor before the apocalypse? Clearly not because real life doctor have a oath where they can't kill people, so what he was doing was unethical already. I agreed that Joe's action was selfish, but I don't judge him if it was my daughter I would fight without thinking twice.

[@bubbachildsupport4535]

But this is the apocalypse, people are forced to change and become terrible people, Joel was a good dude before the apocalypse but now he’s a mass murderer, that doctor was probably a good person too and him wanting to find a cure to save humanity automatically makes him a better person than Joel and most people. Also that doctor oath don’t matter when we can have a cure. If you were a doctor, you wouldn’t kill someone for a cure and to save humanity?

[@klckvision]

rob is gonna love abby lol

[@ART3MIS_1904]

Lol

[@OnlyMsNicky]

Oh shit! I just said this! 😂 You know he will.

[@wespicedmemes]

They need to organize it better than they did in the game fr. Abby can be a decent character if they do it right.

[@a_2502]

@@wespicedmemes agree

[@bubbachildsupport4535]

Abby did nothing wrong lowkey 😂

[@lajiarrington9093]

The funny part is that no heard her Marlene say to Joel "The doctor thinks he can make a cure" nothing was definite

[@tjoverton7581]

That’s why the situation was so tricky Maybe they have a cure but Ellie is definitely dead Maybe it would of worked but we’ll never know after Joel did what he did

[@lajiarrington9093]

@@tjoverton7581 absolutely personally I know nothing in reality is perfect or 100% but even if they find a cure fedra giving up the power they got I doubt they'd go quiet

[@RR-lv3tp]

I wouldn't have even cared, if there was a guarantee.. Its not one persons responsibility, to care for the entire world. They were gonna kill her, so Joel did what he had to do, and killed them. Care for your own, its very simple when you break it down, like that

[@purpleemerald5299]

@@lajiarrington9093Remember, the Fireflies also barely survived crossing the country and were at their lowest point. So even if they defied all odds and whipped out a working cure…they still wouldn’t be the ones capable of using it to “save the world.” Ellie living at least means there’s hope for a better opportunity in the future; which is something few seem to consider.

[@sci-figameguy8241]

The world took everything from Joel, so Joel took everything from the world.

[@OnlyMsNicky]

Robb is going to Looove Abby. She's going to be his favorite character.

[@LaCheeserie]

Robb with some insightful takes and predictions

[@JTidiotboy]

lmfao

[@prettywitty3025]

It was never save Ellie or save the world. It was save Ellie, or maybe possibly have a small chance to save the world, if everything worked exactly as the doctor (of some kind) was guessing, with zero evidence. Joel was right.

[@GLitiatc0]

The cure isn't guaranteed, and if it works it would likely be distributed unproportionately to a particular faction. It's not like the whole world would get to have it, it would be a means to control everything. In the humanity would still be a shit hole, just more guarantees that some people get to have an advantage over others. And this is assuming that any of this works and Ellie didn't die for nothing.

[@alinagarcia8388]

Joel did save the world. HIS world.

[@OnlyMsNicky]

Word

[@Leonardo-po7ht]

@@Saint77.7 He got himself more time with her. That's what is important for him.

[@niraxlevi9930]

@Leonardo the world isn't worth saving,all of the surviving people are killers that's one ,two even if they found a cure and everyone is immune they still will die because the infected will tear them into pieces and three the world is flourishing without humans

[@classic76]

Why do so many people fail to calculate the following into Joel's decision (aside from the daughter trauma)? Fireflies threw a damn flash grenade at a child (didn't even say put your hands up), discerned who she was and then slapped her on an operating table with the quickness. What was so pressing? It's not like they were racing against the clock for a cure. Society been went to shit for 20 years now. I'm sorry, but at what point did doctors stop consulting with the patient to make an informed decision? And because she is a minor, an adult definitely should have been present. And the one adult there (Marlene) LIED to her. The doctor obviously forgot his oath as a physician years ago. Joel should not have lied to her. He should have said the Fireflies weren't the good guys either and that's why he left bodies.

[@shonen245]

The cure wasn't a guarantee, just a possibility. Also, the world is so far gone for both infected and humans that are left at this point, what is there to save really?

[@alih3728]

Exactly.

[@Lijslocombe.]

For me, the way that humanity is portrayed in this show, I just question wether humanity deserved Ellies sacrifice.

[@reece6583]

Those are my exact thoughts. I feel humanity was already lost and there are some that would even destroy any possible vaccine or "cure" as they called it to keep things the way they are. Plus it's all a theory and they didn't know it would even work anyway since they can't even really test anything. They actually confused me calling it a "cure" which makes it seem like the infected could revert back to human but I digress.

[@niraxlevi9930]

Me too ,i don't think humanity deserves to comeback, look how the word is flourishing

[@anime_girly7340]

This comment 💯

[@MoDeep1212]

The fatal flaw that the Fireflies made was not letting Joel and Ellie have a final talk/goodbye. It's clear that Ellie would've agreed to it, but Joel would only accept that if he heard it from her before they prepped for surgery. The way that they treated him, by separating them, not letting him see her knocking him to the ground, all that shit was prob triggering memories of Sarah's death. For them to do all of that, while telling him that his new daughter is about to die, how to expect a killer like Joel to react. While I get the line of thinking that is safe to separate them, if Marle had let them talk and Ellie got Joel to understand this is what needs to happen I don't think he'd betray her wishes directly like that.

[@jayjacobl4667]

I don't think there's any way Joel lets that happen even if Ellie says that's what she wants. Dude spent 20 years dwelling in trauma, his mind cannot take another blow like that. Joel knows Ellie wants this already, she basically said it during the giraffe scene, and he knows Marlene is speaking the truth when she says it's what Ellie would want. He just doesn't care.

[@kaydollar2490]

@@jayjacobl4667 I get both perspectives but I kinda agree with you more. I think Joel would’ve killed everyone or at least the doctor regardless of what Ellie said, even it meant having her hate him (mmhmmmm) I don’t think he would, almost physically, be able to let himself loose another daughter. Mentally we know and he knows that he wouldn’t take it.

[@Vextipher]

I agree with this. Joel didn't get the closure he needed to say goodbye or to hear Ellie one last time after going through that. Fireflies gambled with Joel of all people, should have minimized risk and killed him when they had a chance or oblidged. They could have delayed but were desperate and rushed.

[@jdRamza]

They became the next group that forcefully took her and is trying to kill her. Marlene handled it terribly, she knew what Joel is capable of and didn't restrain him or anything. But we would have had a meh ending if he just got tied up and the credits rolled.

[@overdose0074]

Green shirt guy was feeling the last moments, everyone else acting a fool trying to avoid their emotions.

[@edsontoraw5086]

i dont like how yall skip over the small talks they have its nice to see that father side of joel

[@rosieizred]

yes i feel like they only care for the action

[@mr.higglesworth6149]

Yea they don’t care bout that shit lol

[@nickydaley345]

They talk so damn much, they miss all the important details.

[@hueyfreeman229]

Subscribe to patreon for the full reaction

[@edsontoraw5086]

@@hueyfreeman229 not paying for a reaction that’s on youtube sorry

[@MCU-vq6sg]

Anyone that says they couldn't do what Joel did, obviously isn't a parent or a true parent

[@lesmesromero3585]

Had the fireflies managed to create a cure..... Would they give it to Raiders, cannibals, fedra who they are at war with? No, they would stay with it for themselves. So Joel couldn't justify one life for so little few people that aren't different from everyone else. He saved Ellie because there isn't a world to save anymore.

[@KhepriProductions2022]

You know damn well none of that mattered to Joel whatsoever. Let's say the Fireflies did manage to give the cure to everyone. Joel still would've stopped it. It didn't have a thing to do with what he thought about the world.

[@Kingdom850]

@@KhepriProductions2022 Whether or not it mattered to Joel doesn't excuse it from being a valid point. This is 20 years into the apocalypse. The Fireflies have a reputation for being idealistic extremists, seen by other factions as insane for their obsession with finding a cure. Nobody would even trust them if they actually made a cure. This world is not being saved.

[@Darth-Shadow]

To be fair in that moment Joel did not think about any of that. You only cared about saving Ellie. He could have just theorised all this later on to justify his actions but at that moment, He purely acted on his paternal and selfish emotions. Not to say he was bad or wrong. That's the beauty of the last of us. There is no right or wrong

[@kc_h7h]

You're trying to justify it because joel and ellie are main charachters so in your eyes everyhting they do is right. But no. Joel was selfish. Nothing more. He risked the resurrection of the world for just one person. Yes its understandable, but still wrong and selfish

[@Kingdom850]

@@kc_h7h Once again that world wasn't going to be resurrected lol. The sooner y'all realize that the better. Not agreeing with what he did but you're out of your mind if you think a cure is saving a lawless world.

[@JBurnz001]

You can tell who don’t have no kids or don’t think about the kids

[@NoCallerId.7]

Fr they won’t understand until they have their own it’s selfish but I understand

[@Ruijor]

This comment should be pinned at the top. They couldn't grasp Joel's motivations even if they tried, they never experiencied unconditional love to that point...

[@elsannin14121]

I wouldn't even sacrifice one of my students for the world, so I couldn't imagine a parent sacrificing their daughter.

[@SyntheticCK]

People saying she was going to save the world has zero way of knowing it would have worked.

[@sergio010495]

honestly fuck humanity they had their chance and they got it wrong by a long shot. we have seen two major organizations in FEDRA and the fireflies who are horrible if you gave them the cure do you think they would be like "Hey heres the cure have it for free". no they would be join us get the cure or die. if they wanted us to feel bad for the Fireflies or the Doctor its should of been his story, but thankfully it is joel and ellie story and thats who i grew attached too. Great Episode and great reaction RTTV

[@CATTingle]

I didn’t expect so many science lessons in an RTTV reaction but here we are lol

[@OnlyMsNicky]

😂

[@jiyansalih4320]

I really enjoyed the discussion! In regards to Joel I feel like a major reason as to why he latched onto Ellie is because she was something worth protecting, not because she was the cure, but because of her loyalty and dependability paired with her hopeful and innocent nature. From the moment he lost Sarah, Joel had long given up on humanity- it wasn't the infected that took away the person he lived for it was humans. Joel was a teen dad on his own, all he had to keep going was his daughter and the thing that killed her was a soldier someone who's job is to protect and serve. Same thing with Tommy, they were separated for God knows how long because of community. Ellie came into the picture and she brought back the empathy and paternal nature he had abandoned the moment he lost Sarah. She brought back the sense of loyalty he was waiting for that Tommy couldn't sustain (in Joel's eyes, I don't blame Tommy at all), and above all else she was able to reteach him how to live with purpose not just survive. Even if they hadn't known each other very long the impact was substantial. Plus, Joel never cared about humanity, it was hinted at in the first episode when he ignores the wellbeing of civilians- he lives for himself and the people he loves. Is it selfish, yeah, but look how shitty the world turned out anyways- a cure wasn't going to help unless it was administered in the beginning of the pandemic. The cordyceps didn't ruin society they just acted as a catalyst, even if the fireflies somehow managed to curate a cure I kinda think everything was too far gone to rebuild and I'm sure Joel was aware of that after 20 years of living in apocalyptic society.

[@mehlev]

She wasn't spacing out because she was near the hospital .. she was spacing out because she was almost murdered, R'd and had to brutally kill another human being .. jeez you guys are dense af 💀🥴

[@LightofJoshua]

I swear. I LOVE these guys but I feel like they react to so many things that they don’t truly pay attention to what they’re reviewing. That or they purposely say off things to get people to comment and boost the comment section. Which in turn gives them more views

[@Taewills]

Exactly! She has no access to therapy- it’s clearly been months of her playing those events through her head on repeat

[@lalaland12]

She's literally in the middle of a depressive episode, that's why Joel brought up his own attempted suicide. I've been watching these guys for a while and they just do not grasp certain emotional aspects of shows 💀

[@Cert1f1edM1dget]

They're too busy having a contest on who could be the loudest or "funniest" on camera. I pretty much only watch for Joel's reaction and couldn't care less about the other 4... though Rob always has hilarious takes.

[@Taewills]

@@lalaland12 🤦🏾‍♀️ 😂

[@gphillimo]

The first giraffe was real, but the far shot with multiple girrafe was cgi

[@theguywhomakesthetrees2057]

The fireflies are grasping at straws. The chances of them synthesizing a cure is slim to none. How much do you think they'd be able to make? How would they distribute it. And even then. You can still get torn apart or popped in the head by a raider. Joel absolutely made the right call.

[@kc_h7h]

You're acting like this is a sales company taking a risk on a project. This is entirely different. Its humanity. Even the slim chance of finding a cure if worth it. Joel was selfish. Just accept it

[@NavAK_86]

Marlene literally said ''The doctor thinks there's a cure''. THINKS, not knows 100%. You gonna let your daughter take the risk of dying for something that might not work?

[@animearts3]

I hate the whole “but that’s not his daughter” argument so arrogant

[@bigchow2444]

love the different opinions about the ending if joel did the right thing or not

[@yungdread6402]

Remember that a main component to Ellie’s super hero mentality is to “Endure & Survive !” Can’t do that if she’s dead 😂😂, her pain will come from being lied to over time. Cool cameo with video game Ellie being her mother here 💙

[@TheMorgueBasicSlasherFan]

The thing these guys don’t seem to understand is this isn’t the first time the procedure was done , it was actually done 12 times and all of them failed - it can be found in the game lore - apart from that it’s obvious Joel isn’t a good person but I’m sure any loving father would have done the same to protect their daughter- even if she isn’t her biological daughter she still matters to him and the bond that they share is great. It is incredibly selfish but with the chance to save the world who knows ? All that’s known is Joel loves Ellie and Ellie loves Joel, a true father daughter bond

[@michaelharris9574]

At the same time, you have to understand how Riley explained that she used to have a family and Ellie never had anyone, now she does do you think she would make a simple decision to give up her life. She just told Joel that she would follow him anywhere afterward. The argument that surrounds the decision made at the end starts with the fireflies for not allowing Ellie to make a decision, or talk with Joel. If it was Ellie's wish I believe Joel would have let it happen, Joel is definitely selfish but he wouldn't go against that.

[@LofiTales21]

Listen my son or the world, I’m Joel. There is no world without him to me

[@ShaunFish]

What Joel did was obviously selfish. That’s not the debate, it’s what it means to be human. Any of us would do unspeakable things for the people we love. Easy to judge, hard to do

[@c0mmas]

which is exactly why he gets what he deserves in part 2

[@thadream_13_10]

To be fair, Marlene didn’t give Ellie a choice either. We can guess that Ellie would have agreed, but we don’t know that.

[@FrolleinMiez]

Right? Marlene doesn't know Ellie. We know that because Ellie didn't know her. So it doesn't matter that she was friends with the mom and was there when she was born. She can't say I know what decision she would make. Bitch, how? With what information do you know that? Can't win with that situation anyway though. Cause if you ask me, even if they had told Ellie and she was the one to make the decision and she agreed, it's still fucked. Like, a 14 year old kid, having survivors guilt, being traumatized by a lot, adding the fresh trauma of almost getting cut up and maybe eaten, almost being raped, having to kill to free herself. That's someone I wouldn't have make a life or death decision anytime soon. And all so they might find a cure. Might. And with what lab you making that cure, who distributes it and decides who will get it or not. Cause you already know they're not giving the shit to anyone they don't think deserves it. Shit has so many layers. I like it, get people thinking and talking.

[@GrandmaNUT]

First, what's this? Rob is not with Gangsta Joel? He's for the world saving? That's new. 2nd, Any father would've made the same decision, if you have someone you hold dearly, nothing else matters but them. Joel didn't need to kill the doctor or the soldier who surrendered, but anyways, after losing Sarah, Joel was ready to end himself but that later changed because of Ellie obviously Joel is not gonna let Ellie go. The pain and trauma Joel has been through, it's understandable why he chose to save Ellie.

[@Dragonpuncher123]

Rob is the opposite of what Evan is. That's his whole thing.

[@jessbailey5178]

You guys forgot nobody asked the most important person, Ellie. Not even Joel.

[@lalaland12]

But even if they did ask, she's underage, going through a depressive episode, and has crazy survivor's guilt. I feel like her agreeing would've been similar to a confession under duress

[@mrdavman13]

@@lalaland12 exactly. I don’t know why anyone brings this up. She just had the most traumatic year of her life, and you’re asking her to make a life or death decision. There is a reason kids need consent for tattoos, driving, big decisions when they’re minors. Until she is 18 at the very least but really 24 honestly she should not even be given that option. Joel was the closest thing to her guardian. Marlene met her literally twice. I know Ellie trusts Marlene because Marlene knew Anna in the past, but Marlene doesn’t care about Ellie. She saw it as a “test” and the main goal was her firefly goals. All the time. They were too far down the rabbit hole and no ethical or moral boundaries we’re going to stop them. Don’t forget, this is literally a terrorist group.

[@azinoodhomi4419]

Also, when was Joel supposed to ask Ellie. She was literally sedated and prepped for surgery by the time he woke up.

[@a_2502]

@@mrdavman13 this. exactly

[@kc_h7h]

​@@mrdavman13 ellie and Joels opinions and feelings are irrelevant. This is not about them. Joel kills people to save one child. But you find it difficult to understand that they would kill one child for lots of people

[@josejohn2339]

If it were up to me the world can burn , I’m not giving up my kid

[@krudtklovnen]

What good father wouldn't do exactly the same as Joel?? I'm thinking Ellie most likely would've gone through with it, but for the fireflies to not even give her the choice is mad - I thought concent was important.

[@joshtep6784]

The whole point of the show is that the whole world has gone mad. If a single sacrifice could save mankind, most people in the world aside from those with emotional attachments wouldn't give a child that choice. Either way, Elllie would've agreed regardless. The fact that multiple people she's cared for died from infection and she's the only one immune hits different for her. She even says that her biggest fear in life is being alone. That's also why she was indifferent to the life at the commune. She didn't want to be comfortable, she wanted to be the change.

[@joshtep6784]

It can also be argued that what good father wouldn't want their child to live up to their full potential.

[@krudtklovnen]

@@joshtep6784 Well, I agree with you of course, thats why I said I thought Ellie most likely would've gone through with the "operation" if given the choice, but she never was. And I'm not even blaming Marlene either, she did what most people in her situation would do - think of the greater good and leave emotions out of it and do what's best for the collective, in this case; humanity, and then live with the guilt of killing a person later - which is what she would've done if she didn't ask for concent. That entire episode is the trolley problem to a tee in my opinion. But I don't think all that is ever an option for a father though, that's all i'm saying. Have a great day =)

[@BenyaminLorit]

Somehow, I knew Evan and Rob would again be on completely opposite sides of this. Lmao

[@liliannguyen1467]

I do also believe that ellie would have chosen to sacrifice herself to make a cure, after all they went through, like she said; it can't be for nothing. But I also think that she did choose. She chose Joel. She knew that he lied to her, but she still gave up on the cure because she knew how much she means to joel, and how much joel means to her. You can see her hesitation before she answered "okey", that makes me believe that she didn't believe him, so she could have left him and gone to look for another fireflies locations, but she decided to stay with him.

[@jp3813]

In an ideal world, it would've been Ellie's right to decide whether to sacrifice herself for the rest of humanity or not. But let's not forget that Joel & Tommy have murdered many innocent people just b/c they weren't good at surviving in other ways. Those victims had the right to live as well, but such rules aren't upheld in a broken world.

[@IMXLegedaryBard]

So the lady in the beginning that's playing Ellie mom is Ashley Johnson, who played Ellie in The Last of Us

[@jericho7173]

Marlene acting all high and mighty saying she knows what Ellie would of wanted. Like 1) you gave up your best friend's baby to your enemy faction 2) You didn't give a shit about Ellie until you found out she was immune. And 3) if your so confident Ellie would want to sacrifice herself then why lie to her about the surgery? Pretty bold to give consent for someone who honestly you don't even really know. I'd have more respect for Marlene if she admitted she was just using Ellie to save the world. Joel did nothing wrong.

[@LightofJoshua]

I’m with you all the way

[@LaCheeserie]

Perfectly stated

[@OnlyMsNicky]

This is true. Not for sure why it's hard for people to see this. The show makes it even more clear.

[@LaCheeserie]

If they told her straight up it was brain surgery and she may not make it or guaranteed not to make it and said yes, Joel would have very reluctantly accepted it

[@Cert1f1edM1dget]

I like to think Joel would still go in guns blazing. At this point he doesn't give a fuck about anything other than not losing "something to fight for." It would detract from the story if that were the case that Joel would care what Ellie thinks. No matter what, Joel will not lose another kid even if she will hate him for it.

[@dipsydoodle2728]

@@Cert1f1edM1dget I don’t I think If Ellie told him and they got to have a real discussion and say goodbye and him knowing they weren’t going to shoot him in the street after (they were going to let’s be real) he would stop it I think he would go along with it because it was her decision but there’s a reason why Marlene knocked him out and took her in that flashbang and never even told her Ellie wouldn’t have a choice either way and Joel would have asked questions and the same thing would have happened

[@WarKrieg]

How’d these guys completely miss the obvious fact the Ellie is traumatized by what happened w David

[@verez5518]

Yea they talking about she was acting weird cause they are getting closer to their goal, guess they forgot about the last episode.

[@ivankawnartist]

Oh, damn! The Giraffe was real! 🦒

[@robfrawley]

It was a real giraffe 🦒- you can check the behind the scenes video where they show it.

[@LaCheeserie]

And real babies

[@THEMVPS3179]

Chefs kiss. Whole show we’ve been talkin about the greater good and selfishness or selflessness.Henry gave up two and half men chick’s bro for his own brothers well being. And he said does that make him a bad guy. Does it make Joel a bad guy to save his new daughter. That’s up to your own interpretation

[@antoinejackson4311]

Look at it from this viewpoint, Most of this story the threat was other people... not so much infected. Joel knows killing her won't change anything about humanity so in his view its not worth saving. Is he willing to lose a daughter figure again to see a world of selfish, evil people return?

[@jvill79]

Before he goes to bed, John Wick looks under the bed for Joel Miller

[@elinama7061]

I think he did what he did cuz he's been in this world a long time and he's seen true evil, and it's not the infected, it's the humans who are still alive. The rapists, pedos, slavers, abusers, etc that were brewing under the surface even before the infections. What's the point of the indefinite cure that kills the kid he loves in a world that doesn't cure where the horribleness really comes from? What's the point? He's out another daughter and the world takes advantage of the sacrifice. Even if there was a cure made from her, you bet the people that really need it wouldn't get it. It would be stashed and hoarded by the people in power.

[@fjnemo]

Everyone saying they would sacrifice themselves but when it happens for real, you'll be scared shitless to die when death is facing you

[@nikolaivillek8178]

Joel popping the doctor was cold

[@OnlyMsNicky]

Doc should have stepped back. Joel had a gun. What?!

[@Kefka.]

Joel killed all the threats, the Nurses were scared and clearly not a threat. The doc was brave enough to try to fight off Joel, so he had to be killed.

[@yungvision1]

I think the point alot of people missed is THERE IS NO GUARANTEE this woulda worked. Marleen said he "Thinks" it could be a cure. So you kill Ellie and then it doesn't work you killed her for nothing. That's the Con

[@intothefrayyo]

🤯

[@johnweebfps]

ATLEAST TELL HER WHATS GONNA HAPPEN THAT SHES GONNA DIE BUT MARLENE CHOSE NOT TO, SO EH, MARLENE LITERALLY SAID WE DIDN'T TELL HER SO SHE WOULD NOT FEEL FEAR

[@hamadalkaabi2160]

Joel never gave her a chance either he lied to her instead of saving her and telling her to choose he killed the doctor and lied to her

[@bernie9996]

They used a brand new baby and a real fuckin giraffe dont play with hbo fam! 😂

[@FinebabyFace]

Both sides were selfish. Ellie was unaware about the surgery & them removing the cells, that’ll kill her. Joel made his decision that wasn’t technically his place, but what other choice was given there? Ellie was already prepped for surgery and not even saying she will die. They knew it had to be wrong, because why not tell her that before surgery? She deserved a choice & Joel owed her the truth🤷🏽‍♀️.

[@Futureworld573]

Also keep in mind Joel tried to stay back and have Tommy take ellie but ellie wasn't having that and she knows how Joel is more than anyone by now so like at that point you can get mad but you better not run away

[@jpa5038]

This moment is going to come back 100%. First of all, Joel left some people alive. My bet is one of those nurses tells Ellie what happened at some point somehow in the future and it drives a rift between Ellie and Joel. I think Ellie would have made the sacrifice. It's within her character.

[@kanejtrash5019]

well not to spoil anything but obviously Joel’s choice is what makes the plot for the second game/season

[@Leonardo-po7ht]

It's good to see people making up theories. Trying not to get spoiled.

[@jr4chargers]

The Giraffe wasn't CGI. There was an official post talking about it.

[@michaelsaylor4903]

Wells should have recognized ellies moms voice. ( voice of ellie in the game) she gave birth to the TV show ellie lol

[@garou8186]

Alright, the job that Marlene gave Joel and Tess was to escort her Ellie to a location with fireflies that wasn't too far away, but that didn't go as plan and Tess died in the process (Loss number 1). Then Joel had to change up the original objective to take this girl cross state mostly by foot, which lead to their meeting with Sam and Henry and we know how that went (Loss number 2 and 3). Joel and Ellie finally makes it to Tommy, and Joel wanted to just let go of Ellie there but Ellie wanted to stick with Joel even though he felt that he couldn't protect her. So they continue their multi-month mission to take Ellie to the fireflies, only for Joel to get injured and the cannibal stuff to happen. And when they finally make it there, only to be separated abruptly by a damn flashbang and Joel is just told "Uh thank you, you can go now", like he didn't just lose Tess, Henry, Sam, and now Ellie? Not only that but they escorted this man out with nothing but his bag and just expected him to go on about his life, gaining absolutely nothing from the whole multi-month trip except another loss. And not to mention the cure is purely by chance, anything could happen and they may not even have the technology to properly distribute it, and even if they did, who says raiders and the rest of the world would accept such a thing? Ellie was going to die for a chance at saving a world that's too far gone for everything to magically be restored by a cure. And they did Joel dirty, so in all honesty he made the most logical decision

[@mananpatil6808]

💯💯

[@serarthurdayne4509]

Wait, what⁉ Joel used 0 Logic and All Emotion❗He blew Marlene face off💬She's known Ellie her entire life Joel has known her for a year max, not even!

[@garou8186]

@@serarthurdayne4509 Yet Marlene has did little to nothing for Ellie aside from keeping her alive so that she can run tests on her. Ellie didn't get an ounce of affection outside of Joel and Riley, because Marlene ever only viewed her as a possible solution rather than a 14 year old girl.

[@Akabinxstar]

His decision isn't logical in the slightest duide. Loving your daughter does mean you get to kill dozens of innocent people

[@serarthurdayne4509]

@@garou8186 Affection⁉️😭😭😭😭😭 Marlene and the Fireflies have been getting their asses handed to them by Fedra for the longest and ur upset at her because she never played "Pitty Pat" with Ellie⁉️ She did exactly what her Momz asked her to do❗and if U played the game there is like 4 different Voice recordings of Marlene going back and forth with the decision💬sooo she definitely cared. A lot of fans just don't wanna face the fact that Joel is some 💩 point, blank .

[@heygoodbyee]

Umbilical cord, nutrients and vitamin discussion? I love it lol

[@LaCheeserie]

Pat like me noticed dude didn’t even cover the baby’s ears

[@Krossiant]

this one felt so short man.. damn near perfect but it needed at least 5 minutes more, esp w where the story goes from here😪

[@AriSellassie]

Loved the discussion, you guys I think will really get, and understand part 2

[@barbs1434]

fun fact the actress who played Ellie’s mom was the voice actor (Ashley Johnson) for Ellie in the game and the guy in episode 8 who was working with that cannibal pervert voiced Joel (Troy Baker)

[@arbenjuncaj6120]

I'm with Evan and Wellz, but i understand both sides

[@G1Transformed]

@RT TV, 17:04 "Did Joel make the right decision?" If you believe in consent, the answer is YES! Marlene told Joel that they didn't tell Ellie. Marlene was lying to Ellie since Boston. Marlene might not have known that Ellie was going to have to die, but she certainly knew that death was on the table. Had Marlene told Ellie everything she new back in Boston, Ellie wouldn't have gone on the journey, but that wasn't actually up to Ellie. Ellie was a POW and she was going to go where Marlene was taking her--Ellie asked for them to let her go, and they told her no. What did you think of David? Did you agree with him? David was an allegory for the Marlene and the Fireflies. He, like they made himself look like a good guy, and we steadily saw him for what he really was, a monster. He was going to take from Ellie what he wanted, whether she consented to his desires or not...that's exactly what Marlene and the Fireflies are doing in this episode. When Ellie learned of David's truth, she was discussed and had to do away with them. Ellie can't do that with the Fireflies because they lied to her and knocked her out and prepped her for a surgery she wasn't supposed to wake from. "When we are in need, he shall provide" isn't that different from "When you're lost in the darkness, look for the light." I'm a little surprised that you're okay with the what the Fireflies were doing here. What they're doing is what happened to numerous enslaved Black Americans before laws changed to prevent doctors from doing shady $#!+ like this. Modern day medicine came at the expense of people the government said weren't people. Doctors and students studying medicine needed people to practice on, and that process was made easier in the South because enslaved people were classified as people. James Marion Sims was an asshole personified. He tortured black women to hone his craft in gynecology, the practices doctors the world over uses is based on his practice. Ellie's story reminds me a lot of Henrietta Lacks. She is the women we all owe a great deal to. The He La immortal cell line is hers and it is responsible for all sorts of research from medicines, and the results of human contact to pretty much anything like chemicals, tape, cosmetics, you name it. There are over 10,000 patents to her remaining DNA. Because Henrietta grew up during Jim Crow days and when segregation was the norm, she couldn't go to the best hospitals for medical care. She had to go to one designated for Black people. Doctors their checking her out realized that her cells were different, unlike all other cells that died, Henrietta's doubled and thrived. This allowed for all sorts of testing, testing that lead to polio vaccines, cancer and AIDs treatments and dozens more. Henrietta sadly died, and she died not knowing about her unique DNA. To this day, her family still hasn't been compensated for the theft of her cells or for the billions (trillions?) made with her help. The Fireflies were going to make crazy discoveries with Ellie's mutated genes, and she never would have known about it, because she was going to be dead. Ellie's a post apocalyptic Henrietta Lacks and her genetically altered DNA is the new He La.

[@Chillsoo96]

Elie got survivors guilt, she definitely woulda chose to die for humanity

[@patrickulas]

Joel did the right thing. Man was only knocked out for a few hours, which means the fireflies didn't have time to run the proper tests on Ellie. Even if the cure would have worked (it wouldn't have) the burden of saving the world should not have been put on a child to begin with. I don't feel bad for any of the people Joel killed.

[@goat1408]

When you realize you remember the OG Ellie (aka Ellie's mom) as a kid.....feel so old now...

[@mrdavman13]

Ashley Johnson was an adult when she worked on the last of us. You can see her the year before the last of us came out as the waitress cap saves in the first avengers movie.

[@loco_logic]

I feel you bruh. I remember her from Growing Pains.

[@a_2502]

I think both the fireflies and Joel were in part wrong. Marlene could say Ellie would want that but she didn't give her the choice. How would she know if Ellie, given she'd know she would die, would say yes in that very moment? Anna said save Ellie and Marlene was gonna let her die wtf. I simply would want to have my own choice. Joel, imo gave her more of a choice because he brought her to the fireflies when she said they should finish the journey when he didn't want to. Now, Joel should not have lied to her after. Period but like the show runners say, love makes you do crazy things. Selfish? To some yes but some may not see it that way. If that was someone I really cared about, I'd definitely be more on Joel's side. The fireflies did lie to her lol. They should have told her and if she said no then ask her to think about it until she's older. That's her life period! Also, imagine if they did the surgery and no cure could be made. Joel wasn't gonna risk that.

[@ohmypoo123]

It's literally not Joel's responsibility to save the world. Why would he? What has humanity done for him? The only single thing he cares about is Ellie, it makes complete sense for him to do what he did.

[@jkdonnie23]

Derick Shepard could never 👁️👄👁️

[@OnlyMsNicky]

Not Dr. Derek Shepherd 😭😭😭

[@williamandres1042]

The giraffe scene (being this one just an example cause they missed the point of other scenes) is so emotional and that guy Rob ruined the moment, not his fault tho, since they are reacting in group (they are always in a funny mood). I am so sure series like this one are better if you watch them by your own in a quiet place and focused in the small things to fully enjoy the real experiencie. These reactions work better for action or comedy stuff, not for drama as I notice.

[@heygoodbyee]

Rob is the best at ruining good moments and having a troll-like opinion lol

[@kry4973]

​@@heygoodbyee I think his instincts tell him to go against the grain. Sometimes he will be arguing stuff that it doesn't even seem like he believes. If the group all likes a character, he will find a reason to hate them. If they all hate someone, he will find a reason to agree with them. He wants to be unique i think.

[@theechosenone4471]

“Rob u a demon bruh”😂😂 nah bro thinking straight lol it’s for the world

[@aliahspirituality]

the little discussions in between are hilarious! loved this show It was fun re watching with this channel. also the way that question was posed at 29:55 changed my whole perspective because initially I couldn't get with Joels decision

[@khelseypena873]

Ashley Johnson played the mother and she is also the original voice of Ellie in the game.

[@Huge_XG-Xpop_Stan]

What y’all missed was that when Joel said he was the guy that pulled the trigger (9:13) then flinched that’s BECAUSE he was gonna shoot himself but hesitated.

[@corporealghoul]

The character in the beginning... ellies mom... is ashley johnson. She was voice of ellie in the game. Also... she is the creator and voice of pike in vox machina. She made that character for her home d&d game that became the vox machina show. Also also... one of the nurses at the end was laura bailey. She voiced the same nurse in the first game and voiced Abby in the second game. As well... she is close friends with ashley and was in the same d&d home game. She is Vex.

[@flatstheflounder338]

and on this episode: Ellie gives birth to Ellie

[@RavenStillBeguiling]

We understand and sympathize with both the fireflies and Joel's motives. One wants to save the world and the other can't survive losing another daughter. But both were selfish and wrong in not giving Ellie a choice.

[@niraxlevi9930]

The cure won't save the world because there's more infected than non infected and they'll kill the survivors anyway

[@pmdaentertainer9575]

The gangster John Q is hilarious Yooh🤣😭

[@Ren_Davis0531]

This was very controversial back when the game came out almost ten years ago. People were going back and forth for ages about whether Joel was a monster. More people who thought he was a monster have come around after getting older and/or becoming parents. It’s such the perfect way to end this story. I’m happy that they didn’t cop out and make a safer, more morally unambiguous ending. Back when they were play testing the game, 50% of the testers without children came out saying they hated the ending, but all of the testers with children came out saying they completely understood Joel. Some of them wanted Naughty Dog to change the ending, but they stayed resolute and stuck to their guns. Love how they were willing to take risks.

[@chrischika7026]

definantly not true as the second game condemn joels actions

[@cannedsquasher5923]

@@chrischika7026 Just because his actions are understandable, does not mean it is necessarily the correct decision or unpunishable.

[@Ren_Davis0531]

@@chrischika7026 First off, I have no idea how this is a response to my comment. Secondly, I think you have to have a myopic view if you think the game itself (and not characters within the game) is condemning Joel for his actions.

[@chrischika7026]

@@Ren_Davis0531 ask neil druckman. thats why everoyne hated part 2

[@Ren_Davis0531]

@@chrischika7026 Again, the idea that Part II is condemning Joel is an L take. Neil Druckmann hasn’t even condemned Joel in interviews. Just because he sticks to the honesty of his characters and how they see the world doesn’t necessarily mean he agrees with them. Especially since he has identified with Joel multiple times over the years and talked about his father being one of the inspirations for the ending.