The Left Can't Give Up on the White Working Class - Jen Pan & Cale Brooks

[@nominatorchris5591]

I hate the fake job divide. White collar , blue colllar, middle class, working class. Doesn't matter really, I'm a pipe welder in philadelphia and make 80k a year and that's considered blue collar, while my friend she makes around 52k in a office job. We Both work for someone else to make our living and it really doesn't matter what type of work we're doing. There is no practical reason for useless dividers among workers other than stirring a fake narrative that doesn't exist. Same of collage educated because the main point of collage is to train yourself to work for someone else anyway but the work your doing is more specialized. Work is Work.

[@jakubLonghorn]

🎉

[@theironworker781]

Ask adjunct professors how much they make. Good point. I know people with degrees who are struggling.

[@jacecotton4339]

100%. The class divide is whether you labor for a wage, or whether you derive your income from your ownership of capital. Income and education determines your status, not your class.

[@lucasgoudie1851]

@@jacecotton4339 try telling someone that makes 15k a year that they share class interests with someone who makes 100k because they still have a boss or some shit

[@jacecotton4339]

@@lucasgoudie1851 They literally do. If something helps the guy making $100k as a consequence of hurting his boss, that same thing would apply to the guy making $15k. Unions are an obvious example. Raises in the minimum wage. The replacement of private, job-linked health insurance with a universal, single-payer system. A lowering of income tax in favor of a raise in profit and property tax. These are all things that are in the interest of both the $100k and the $15k worker (specifically because they're workers and not owners). A person who lives on $50k in passive income from their sole ownership of property (whether that's from renting out a house or owning a small business) still has foundationally different economic interests than the person who makes $15k, even if they're closer to the $15k guy than the $100k guy is. This is not to say that the material realities of both of these workers are comparable. Status is still very important to understanding people's lived experiences. But what incentivizes their collective economic behavior is the same. This is what class is. Status is subjective and individualized, and cannot be used for serious analysis of economic behavior.

[@AWildBard]

Bernie Sanders did a good job with his messaging. It's why he got support even from people who have been alienated from the Democratic Party.

[@Christmosis]

Leftism starts at anti-capitalism. It's leftist's job to help educate other working class people to see how they are oppressed by capitalism. That was confusing that you kept using middle class vs working class. Middle class isn't real. Class is defined by ownership of the means of production: people who own it, and people who work it. The working class is differentially benefited as a means to divide our interests.

[@jacecotton4339]

I 100% agree except for the statement that the middle class isn't real. The middle class does exist, just not in the way they're using it in this video. It's those workers whose job it is to suppress the interests of other workers in service to the interests of capital. Middle management, police officers, loss prevention, union busters, etc. In other words, working class traitors.

[@middle_pickup]

Thank you for bringing this story. It's crucial to maintain this principled perspective on class when you're talking politics. The popular opinion of tribal politics is completely antithetical to this view of leftist politics. This is why the rightwing, and even conservative democrats constantly frame politics from a culture war framing. We have to deny them that distraction. Culture war is BS.

[@djuramalevic9919]

The culture war divides us so it’s not BS, it’s a huge reason why the the elites are dividing and ruling us. Yes, struggles around identity are struggles for survival, dignity & justice No, struggles around identity without roots in class & anti-imperialism are not projects of the left.

[@djuramalevic9919]

@@arvindparthasarathy2862 Maga is very few if we do the math… remember half of the population didn’t even vote. half of the other half voted for a democrat and of the quarter that actually voted for Trump about a third of that is really MAGA while the rest will just vote for any republican. That’s about 10 percent of the population is really MAGA. The mainstream media normalize MAGA… The mainstream media made them and choose to put microphones in their hands while taking them away from Bernie and not platforming any progressive or progressive policies correctly … Said another way, the mainstream media choose MAGA over Bernie… They are the ones who normalized them and making believe a fraction of the population are som kind of right wing movement… it’s not a movement but a manufactured one …it’s only a fraction of the population but they are very loud because of the dunning Kruger effect. Meaning there’s a lot of working class out there to create a class of people in solidarity but like I noted already… Class issues and social issues are tied at the hip… We have to figure out how to reframe everything so it’s clear what’s going on … then we have to deal with the legacy of the indoctrination too…

[@djuramalevic9919]

@@arvindparthasarathy2862 I see what your saying … the amount of questionable characters in our culture or throughout our population seems to be on point… no matter how hard it is to realize… but your thoughts on the amount of real Maga supporters and what their capabilities or how far they will go is not rooted in fact. No way they are on the verge of doing what you claim… but we definitely have major issues but it was much worse in the 70’s Abe even worse in the 60’s and our country is unrecognizable if we looked at the 50’s. We have made real progress.

[@Lucy-pz9ft]

What left all I see are 2 republican parties and neither party represents the middle class, minorities, or the poor, or working class, so I'm voting third party

[@esketeske3495]

I feel like people just believe that they deserve more because they have a degree. It doesn't matter if you contribute. And if you believe that you will support politics which create that world like that whether you want to or not. As the gap between degree holders and non degree holders increases, I believe it will be harder and harder for these two groups to communicate and come to mutually beneficial solutions. We need to start talking to each other now or face the consequences.

[@johnhendersonclark]

Left means having working politics. Those without a class perspective call themselves left because the identity politics that mainly took over the new left became dominate. It's why we have marriage but not a federal nondiscrimination law for one example.

[@carjam49]

It reminds me of the argument of equal pay for women for equal work with men. If the men are getting paid shit, is that really such a fine goal?

[@jahermos]

Exactly. The gender pay gap is largely a PMC problem.

[@valoriewatson7621]

This is the very crucial point that I would say the Democrats missed with the 2016 election

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thank you Jen and Cale.

[@flutieflambert]

“The white working class” (WWC) isnt an actual thing, it’s a thought. Most workers at work don’t segregate themselves into distinct identitarian groups. We may be made up of men, women, black, white, Latinos, etc but at work what usually defines and separates us is our roles- the function of our jobs, not our identity. People who think otherwise are usually management and arent secretaries, mailroom staff, janitors, etc. In other words, the concept of the WWC is made up by people who don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about because they’re not workers.

[@filonin2]

You need to get a better job, You sound very unsatisfied as walmart greeter.

[@michaelcangey2406]

Yup

[@fenreer01]

Absolutely. The problem is... Democrats think they're Leftists and can't imagine that anyone could possibly be to the left of the centrist Clintonista ideology.

[@johnhendersonclark]

The PMC divides us in order to control us.

[@stuarthamilton3832]

Black people know who the white working class is. Trust. 👀

[@bjornbuckley]

I am so happy Jacobin to hear you denouncing race reductionism. Too few American socialists understand that you can’t just alienate the majority of the working class and wonder why they vote red.

[@XTSonic]

Not only happening in America unfortunately. Social democrats and labour parties everywhere seem primarily progressive and minority-oriented parties right now, even when that minority is more conservative than the local conservatives.

[@jeffm.5071]

Nicely said at the end cayle

[@bigbadborders]

A complicated problem, right media has done a good job of villanizing words like communism and socialism for decades. When in truth rural Americans live by communist ideals, they just don't know it. My brother works for his family and neighbors, trading work for work, money never changes hands. He trims a tree for a guy and that guy fixes his car, I hook up his tech and he keeps my trees trimmed. That's actually why a lot of rural folks don't trust the government, they see it as someone having a hand in their pocket and not earning it.

[@troyohenry3165]

Having ideas that overlap with communism has nothing to do with living by "Communist ideals", especially since the same communities are typically bastions of private property rights, individualism, and religious belief which are opposed by communist theory alotgether. The ideas you speak of predate communism by millenia and are not mutually inclusive of communism, especially in regards to the beliefs and values those same people hold which are anti-communist in praxis.

[@bigbadborders]

@@troyohenry3165 We're not going to have a purist version of communism, whatever that means, anywhere. American communism will look different than the USSR for example because our culture is different. Things like free speech, and speaking your mind are inherent to the American experience, and you won't change it. Maybe in the end we'll have to call it something else. I call myself a socialist, but I am not a member of the book club, I have read no leftist theary, I just know the left is by far the better choice for people.

[@stephenwallace8782]

Perfect.

[@stuarthamilton3832]

"Fake category" ? Seriously ? 🤔 Tell that to George Floyd or Sandra Bland😏

[@stuarthamilton3832]

@Porter92 : EVEN IF that's true, shouldn't have been in jail in the 1st place. Did George Floyd and Trayvon Martin commit suicide too ?

[@camadams9149]

11:22 "Racial Justice" will always be an inadequate framework. Injustice in a capitalist system will always reveal itself as inferior economic outcomes. Affirmative action would be a perfect example. The claim is certain racial groups are disadvantaged. If that claim is true, that would be reflected in household net worth/income. As such you could cut out the middleman and accomplish the same thing by making affirmative action class based

[@chrisbuchanan8579]

affirmative action has nothing to do with class as a whole, i have no idea why you even brought it up.

[@camadams9149]

@@chrisbuchanan8579 It has everything to do with class. That's why 14% of students at ivy league schools are in the top 1% of family wealth while only 5% of students are from the bottom 20% of wealth In reality, affirmative action has nothing to do with race

[@dboy8060]

@@camadams9149lol average white person

[@caseymckenzie4760]

I love it whan pmcs pretend not to be pmcs.

[@joseluisaguilaralonzo6374]

MORNING... JEN & CALE... THANKS FOR YOUR ... SCIENTIFIC JOURNALISM

[@SpiritRed]

Yep

[@WordUpNicholas]

Good stuff although NAFTA was a Republican initiative. That said, it doesn't change any of the fundamental truths here. Big question is given two completely dysfunctional and self-serving parties how does any of this change?

[@mididoctors]

Need a few more views in here cale

[@SithLordPrince]

Oh god....

[@stuarthamilton3832]

Cale has actually said other things in the past which suggest that his own understanding of racial politics as it dovetails into U.S. history definitely ain't mine. 😂 You guys should have Gerald Horne on your show as an "antidote". 👍🏾

[@djuramalevic9919]

I’m not sure what they mean by make believe race blah blah blah… obviously just like capitalism… race and so many other things many think as concrete are to manufactured but that doesn’t mean it’s doesn’t exist… once something is manufactured than it is by definition existing… and integral into how we do things…Homelessness is manufactured but who says it doesn’t exist… I don’t get it. I always go by struggles around identity are struggles for survival, dignity & justice but struggles around identity without roots in class & anti-imperialism are not projects of the left.

[@ebsmith29]

I have a lot of respect for Gerald Horne who understands class and racial politics very well. Many, especially those at Jacobin, should look at his interviews with Paul Jay, who was at the Real News Network. They may learn something. It would help if they learn about the Southern Strategy, especially used by Lee Atwater. It is now national.

[@temmy9]

bioleninism explains it all

[@gabrielt.3181]

🙂

[@_permanence]

Education is the class divide… that’s why all of these wannabe experts virtue signal with their bookcases behind them in their videos 😂 Look how smart how I am

[@bermo6066]

workers is when no books

[@timgregory82]

I think you've used Virtue signal incorrectly here.

[@MCJSA]

Books don't necessarily mean educated. I was in a large national chain yesterday and it was mostly pulp romances, manga, and acres of religious bullshit about angels, the power of prayer and white, republican jesus. Looks like lots of people read, and mostly they read what's in the bookstores.

[@chotenque6877]

People tend to have books bud

[@middle_pickup]

Bookcases are virtue signals? I don't think so.

[@DEWwords]

O, goood ... it even looks overwritten .... overdone... overcooked... rotten

[@jeremyandrews3292]

I'm conservative, and I've been watching your videos on and off for a while now. The stuff you're saying sounds very different from what progressives and other people on the modern left typically say. It sounds a lot like what the left used to sound like back when I felt comfortable thinking of them as friends and neighbors who I didn't have to watch my back around so much, rather than as "the enemy." It made me really miss the dynamic I used to have with my left-leaning friends, back when it was easier to have friends from across the aisle. More importantly, the problems you keep talking about with capitalism sound a lot like the problem we keep trying to solve when we talk about economics amongst ourselves. We're all vaguely aware that something is wrong... Bill Gates is buying up all this farmland, there are a lot of monopolies, we are increasingly worrying about those who speak out against the system being "de-banked" if they say the wrong thing, and there seems to be an increasing merger of corporate and government power into a single system. We also notice that the mainstream left on TV blames all injustice and misery in society on race even in situations where it clearly has more to do with economics, and we half-remember some kind of argument the old left used to use that would have debunked that... and it's basically the one you present here. The thing is, we have no clear idea what to do about it. Some of the military types believe most of our politicians and CEOs have defected to Russia and/or China, but the ones who aren't as hawkish believe something along the lines of... the globalists (WEF/Davos types) are trying to implement something very similar to Soviet Communism here in the US with a progressive/liberal veneer, and largely succeeding. The only thing that can be done is try to refuse to cooperate with that system somehow, and setup something else so we aren't dependent on the government or the corporations (increasingly one entity) for our survival, something that can't be shut down by them, but we basically have no concept of how to do that, or whether something like that is even possible, so a lot of us see the situation as hopeless and are increasingly resigned to the idea that they will eventually take away our culture and our freedoms because they are just too powerful. But the ideas you're talking about... actually seem to offer a way out, at least potentially. Which is weird, because we would have thought the left was on board with this "one system" that was being implemented, so them having ideas to counter it as if they didn't want it either doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but that is what it seems like after watching your videos... because the capitalism you talk about is a lot like globalism, and winds up having a lot of the same problems as Soviet communism.

[@rivera229]

The thing is that, this is what capitalism normally does. It's not a bug, it's a feature. You compare global capital to Soviet Communism, but Soviet Communism, or rather all leftist ideologies were always against the idea of globalism. Globalism has always been a capitalist concept and it's where capitalism was always meant to lead in to. The only way to beat global capitalism is through working-class solidarity across the world. Unions are really some of the best counter against big business, it's why Reagan made deregulated big businesses and we started to see laws that made it difficult for the worker to unionize.

[@jeremyandrews3292]

@@rivera229 During the Cold War, we were all afraid of an economic order centered in Russia working across national boundaries to gain influence around the globe, eventually creating a top-down system of control where essentially a one-world government operating through puppet regimes controls all industry and there is no economic freedom or private ownership, everyone would basically be a serf. So that leads people in the circles I generally run in to conclude that the globalists are trying to implement global communism, because we were told over and over again that this is what global communism wanted to do back in the 1970s. No idea if we were all tricked or not, but from what you're saying sounds like it. Anyway, I have not heard anyone talk about unions on mainstream media in decades... it's one of those things I'd associate with the "old left" that you never see anyone talk about anymore, the guys who had unusual ideas about economics and were very anti-war but were otherwise normal. Most of the left-wing economic ideas we see now involve things like raising the federal minimum wage or otherwise relying on government regulation to improve conditions for workers rather than having them organize themselves or make decisions that fit their own circumstances. It's definitely interesting that the one left-wing idea we never hear about anymore is the one that is bottom-up and doesn't involve taking power from people and giving it to government...

[@gabrielt.3181]

😄

[@onlyscams]

In America the most significant determinant in life is race, not class. Though class is a close second

[@zacheryhershberger7508]

I like Jacobin but boy are they dogmatic about base and superstructure.

[@bootstraphan6204]

Could Jacobin do a deep dive on the CIA / Frankfurt School connection? ...and invite *Gabriel Rockhill* on the show!

[@michaelcangey2406]

Omg. 1978 called.... it wants its analysis back.

[@bermo6066]

Ah yes the last year we needed to think about class

[@MCJSA]

Yeah. This terminology needs an update. Which other area of activity do we routinely use 19th century language and concepts? Yesterday, I called someone out for calling Warnock a "Commie". I suggested that they'd used this word because the n-word was no longer available. So, they called me a racist, of course. But, yeah. I've been thinking about this quaint anachronism for a while. It's so old, Archie Bunker didn't even use it. He said, "Pinko". But, the association of Communism with the Civil Rights movement goes right back to the early 60s. So I stand by it. When they say "Commie" - I hear n- and it always seems to make perfect sense - particularly since none of them could explain Communism, not even if their life depended on it. How about less talk about class and classlessness? It seems to distract everyone from the main problem, the slow grinding extinction of the "middle class" - ironically, a classless term.

[@bermo6066]

@@MCJSA middle class isn't classless, it is a description of a class position that is slowly eroded by processes of capital consolidation common to all capitalist economies. We use 19th century language throughout the "hard" sciences whenever the terms still apply, the same goes with social sciences. The fact of an owning class, a working class and intermediate class groupings between them is still the same, and will remain the same until the capitalist system is supplanted by another.

[@jeffm.5071]

So if someone calls someone a commie you’re go to move is to call them racist because that may have been the case in the 1960’s. Doesn’t seem productive imho

[@MCJSA]

@@bermo6066 Yeah. I saw that as soon as I wrote it but couldn't think of how to say... As you explain, the descriptions are relative: The notion of "class" is meaningless without another "class" to distinguish it from. In the pre-capitalist era, we had the three estates: nobility, clergy, and pesantry. Everyone fit into one or another category. Those still track pretty well today.

[@stuarthamilton3832]

🤔 I was almost expecting for Cale Brooks to put up a clenched fist and militantly declare, " White Lives Matter !" 😏 Jesus. 😩I really like Jacobin overall and find it very "useful" but this segment struck me as tone deaf, dripping in white privilege, and just rubbed me the wrong way.😕

[@temmy9]

boohoo. address the grievances or someone else will, and you wont like who that person will be.