The Lesser Known Facts About 3rd Strike

0:00 Intro
0:38 Parry Window and Differences Between Them
2:56 Parry Cooldown
3:49 Hadou Walk
6:00 Standing/Crouching State Frames and Damage
8:01 Special Crouching Rules with Ryu Chun and Q
9:36 Throw Invulnerability
11:57 Throw Tech Parry Lock Out State
13:40 CPS3 Lag and My Own Questions
15:44 Tailored Active Frames
21:05 Outro PLEASE TELL ME IF I GOT SOMETHING WRONG
Cartoon AutoMattock Art: @demidevilqueen
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#automattock #jibbo #streetfighter #fightinggames
#retro #3rdstrike

[@maximepaccalet4449]

Fun fact : necro's air drill is also down parriable, which means that you get the down parry 10f window if you parry it down, even though it's an air attack.

[@Frosted_Moontips]

7:59 I remember watching some Japanese behind the scenes vids on SF3, and from what I can recall the deceptiveness is 100% by design; one of the devs said something to the effect of "We didn't want players to rely too much on concrete & abusable tech like with SF2, so we tried making the game itself feel a bit more chaotic/random" etc. etc.

[@ITNoetic]

A long time ago, I wanted to make a minigame based on 3S parry timing, so I looked it up. My findings back then, based on forum posts, was that parries have 10 active frames, but only if you release the parry within 5 frames, otherwise it's a sloppy parry and the active frames are cut in half. And the cooldown was 20 frames after the initial input. Glad to see those numbers still appear to be the case when actually looking at them with the training mod.

[@Death_By_Orange]

>Playing Balatro >"I think I'm not in the mood" >New Mattock vid >mfw Balatro theme

[@JiBbo]

my bad lool

[@Raziel744]

@@JiBbo Did you notice that that shit is in 7/4, it sounds so normal for that.

[@JiBbo]

@Raziel744 I definitely did I was also trying to prove myself wrong. Like naaaaaaaah that's not 7/4 is it??

[@JiBbo]

Parry cooldown is either 21 or 22 for neutral Grounded parries, at least that's what i saw when slowing it down while editing. Probably 22. Anything other weird mechanics for 3rd strike? Did I get anything wrong? Once again, please let me know!

[@aleary2973]

how long does parry lock you out of teching?

[@kreichjr]

@@aleary2973 When you parry, it starts a "parry state" for 5-10 frames where if you get hit during that state, you will parry. If you're thrown during this state, you cannot tech the opponent's throw. However, if I parry, then go to a different non-parry direction, like downback, it will cancel the parry state. If you do this and are thrown after cancelling the parry state, you can then tech throw. Another thing I've semi-recently learned is that if *both* players parry and throw, teching the throw is still possible. What a mess lol. Another thing that I didn't see mentioned was that in Version A (990512), there is a bugged frame where throw tech is impossible. If you input throw 2 frames after the opponent does, you get thrown instead of teching. So, the whole "I teched that!" situation could be from trying to parry throw and getting thrown during your parry, or hitting your throw tech on the bugged frame. The more you know!

[@JiBbo]

@aleary2973 man that'll probably take me like an hour or more to figure out. I hope somebody else just knows lol.... maybe it's until the cooldown ends?

[@kreichjr]

@@JiBbo I swear I replied to aleary yesterday, but maybe I didn't hit send o.o It's only if you are thrown during the 5-10f parry window. If you cancel the parry by hitting back, and then get thrown, you can throw tech again

[@gustavosanabio473]

There is something that initially surprised me that you didn't include, but in hindsight, someone like you probably wouldn't consider it a LESSER known fact in comparison to people who are coming from more modern games (like me). I'm talking about the fact that crouch tech OS exists in Third Strike. Its not as strong as it was in SF4. I myself had no ideia it existed until I was told explicitly.

[@JiBbo]

Honestly, I don't really crouch tech too much and that's probably why I didn't cross my mind to include it. Thanks for mentioning it!

[@JiBbo]

Oh yea you can also crouch tech with plinking, which I always forget to do too. So something like 2LK~LP can also tech throws

[@trotskysoto1791]

Amazing video as always bro!. I wonder if you could make a detailed video on Hugo knowdowns, that would be really helpful and amazing

[@DragonflySwamp]

12:45 Oh, I think I had totally misunderstood how the interaction between throws and parries worked, and I had run my mouth about it in a comment in another video of yours. Thanks for clearing that up.

[@LakeEarth]

6:50 so i think only the first hit of hammer frenzy gets the crouching bonus because it forces stand. Some supers keep the opponent crouching for every hit (e.g. Q's SA1, Ryu's SA1), that's where the crouching bonus makes the most difference. Fun fact with Dudley, while his SA3 also forces standing, the first hit has like 60-70% of its total damage, which is why overhead into SA3 is still so damn powerful.

[@JiBbo]

sheeesh

[@DrunkenDarwin]

I only learned today that everyone's taunt has an effect on something and it blew my mind. I love that they incentivize taunts.

[@ggbhtg]

Any content that de-mystifies the idea that "you've played one Street Fighter, you've played them all", is content I need direct to my veins

[@shinygekkouga52]

The section on meaties really put into perspective why devs do what they do. At first, I thought removing meaties was unintuitive and annoying, but I recognized that because moves can’t gain extra frame advantage in this way, they can have other properties that distinguish themselves more, differentiate characters, and ultimately give the game its unique feel.

[@JiBbo]

It's also the routes that it would provide. Imagine if makoto could easily do MP into HP then SA2.... which I think she still can vs crouching hugo btw

[@wecoctm]

I remember someone made some screen comparisons of chun jumping on different hardware/software and there was a significant difference of jump quantity, I cant recall exactly how many and in how much time was measured but there was clearly a difference of the overall speed of the game, which basically means different hardware may allow you to have better reaction and better execution due to the game being just a little bit slower. Anybody who has played CPS3 and fightcade knows the difference is legit

[@gustavosanabio473]

Was that not a difference between the arcade and the console ports of Third Strike? Because, yeah, those are vastly different.

[@Huh-bc8vs]

Yea it was the difference in emulation speeds. I don’t think it showcased input latency.

[@specter_of_thestars2500]

@@gustavosanabio473the online edition of 3s changed one of yuns genei jin combo damage. But that’s all I remember as a port difference outside of emulation speed

[@dekuskrub2154]

i learned that the hard way trying to do oro chicken reps on shotos for the first time on cab lol

[@mattatsu]

I’m glad you put a number to throw invul. I remember looking for that a couple of years ago and everywhere I looked had a different number, or mentioned that it was variable or something. I don’t remember what the typical numbers were but always told myself they were “around 5 frames” lol

[@farslashenjoyer]

Active frames not having uniform hitstun is actually very interesting! I wonder if that's a design concept developers could return to so we can give characters huge active normals without risking making meaties or other late-hitting attacks broken.

[@hitmangfx7162]

Just commenting to say your dedication to this game is inspiring. Keep up the great content!

[@samer-sultan]

Love these types of videos great info

[@Farm-Key]

Third strike yeah

[@wecoctm]

kaiji yeaah

[@BAD361]

great video, really appreciate the info and 3s knowledge

[@davicpetrovski155]

Thanks for the video!

[@Inthul360]

Very useful video, thank you. I'm an A rank EST USA Q main on Fightcade under the name Inthul. Wouldn't mind some matches with you sometime. Appreciate the time and effort you put into this video. Shared it with the Q discord.

[@greibonifacio]

Man! Your Q is sick. Been watching your replays

[@xyz39808]

I don't know if this is only unknown to new players but some input FAX that everyone should know. Crouching DP = 323P. super shortcut 23623. 720 only needs to be a 540, so 4268426P works

[@JiBbo]

Oh yea, that reminds me how some QCF motions can be without diagonals. They can be 426 or 624. The regular ones can be performed from crouch as well, like 3214 or 1236

[@DragonflySwamp]

7:00 The choice of standing vs crouching state is up to the defender? I would have thought it was set depending on the move. Does this mean I could jump over Ryu doing a Hadouken and potentially hit him in a crouching state if he decides to hold down?

[@IchinShek]

You doing some good work JiBbo DoOD ♥

[@JiBbo]

EEIIIISSHHH!?!?!?

[@IchinShek]

@@JiBbo you know I always be lurking DoOD ♡

[@jitsekuilman2492]

That little cartoon Jibbo in the thumbnail is cute as hell

[@JiBbo]

DDQ posted it on Twitter so I had to yoink it... with their permission ofc

[@heylookashiny]

New fighting game guru video let's go

[@MM-br4dk]

@automattock started 3rd strike yesterday. Allready c rank on fightcade.this game is childsplay compared to super turbo when it comes to inputs and normals but i have a question about parrying and i cant find the answer. Is it possible to parry all super arts after the lighting freeze?or do have to tap forward before the lighting freeze on prediction?like some super arts seem so fast and impossible to parry after the freeze. Appreciate for answer .thank u

[@SpitShineT0mmy]

There are some attacks in the game that will give you additional frame advantage on a meaty hit. I don't know if there's a rule (maybe heavies/specials or moves that cause backturn?) or if it's entirely arbitrary. I know for a fact Alex 6HP and HK can give extra advantage. Further testing required... It's also surprising how many people don't know that throw invuln was such a standard mechanic in virtually every fighting game until SF4 came out. It's also why playing 4, 5 and 6 make me want to tear my hair out.

[@JiBbo]

Yea there's a lot of examples where the advantage totally increases, and maybe I should have included those as well.

[@blaqnycvids5959]

Just adding onto this (by the way amazing video I didnt know most of these despite so many years of playing), but Ryu can also do close HP on wakeup to beat meaty throw similar to Dudley s. HK. It comes out blazing fast and its throw invul enough on wakeup to beat any meaty throw attempt.

[@genejas]

sometimes i backthrow when it's technically not optimal, specifically to block options like dudley HK, and DPs

[@OmnipotentO]

Nice! Now I'm gonna act like i knew these to clown on scrubs in some other yt comments 😈 "this kid doesn't even know about HADOU WALK LOOOLLLL" -me after learning about hadou walk 5 min ago

[@JiBbo]

bro i knew about hadou walk 13 seconds after it was released in japanese arcades... IN NEW GENERATION!!!11111swag

[@airthrowDBT]

I don't play 3S but I like watching it, so this is still dope to me

[@mikerotchitch6399]

I loved and still enjoy it to this day. Not for the amazing gameplay systems, beautiful 2D art and sprites, kick ass ost or even Evo moment 37. It's because in the UK a physical copy was rare as rocking horse sh#t for Dreamcast, even though Double Impact, (New Gen and Giant Attack) were readily available. It was the first console game I sailed the seas for. Then my local arcade gets it 2 weeks later 🤦‍♂️😂

[@BrianX_3s]

There is a case where overhead attacks do the same damage to an opponent who is standing vs crouching, and that is if the opponent is crouch blocking. So single hit overheads, whether they be a UOH, command overhead, or jump attack will do the same damage if the opponent just doesn't hold back while standing to block it as it will if the opponent gets hit crouching by it but was holding down back. My guess is this was a way to 'reward' the crouching player for at least attempting to block, even tho they blocked low instead of high. However, multi-hit overheads still get the crouch damage bonus after the first hit. So jump-in combos, command overheads that hit twice, and UOH links all still do more damage to a crouch blocking opponent, but the bonus is only applied after that first hit bc they get some credit for at least trying to defend themselves on the first hit.

[@icemann6017]

Song around 6ish minute mark?

[@Infil]

One thing that's always irritated me about 3S is that half circle inputs are not treated the same between characters. For example, Necro can do tornado using 1236 input, but Ryu cannot do donkey kick using that input, it has to be a full half circle. This means Necro can easily pester with crLP xx tornado from down-back, but Ryu trying to do crHP xx donkey kick has to do a much more precise and annoying motion. I've always wondered what reason there is for this, but could never find an answer. I also keep hearing the window for parry is different if you go back to neutral vs hold a direction (not even necessarily entering block, just holding down or holding forward). I've heard different numbers for this though, so don't know what the real answer is. If you wanted I bet you could devote an entire video just to the damage scaling "rules" of 3rd Strike. I put "rules" in quotes because I think it's like the active frames thing, every move just has its own damage scaling value with no rhyme or reason for anything.

[@JiBbo]

The half circle thing is definitely strange and easy to dismiss as random. As a whole, 3rd strike was probably a mixture of precision, chaos and luck whenever they were in development, I would guess. Seems like the characters who can't do crouching half circles are also character who CAN do cardinal-only half circles. There's probably another full video about directional inputs in this game somewhere in there. 720 doesn't have to be a 720. Half circle doesn't have to be a half circle. double quarter circle doesn't have to be a double quarter circle...

[@RTU130]

Right

[@justingoers]

Love the Balatro theme

[@decksteroussnail]

I bump the Balatro music in the car

[@patrickshaver216]

The best thing I’ve found as an Elena play as a hit confirm like that on meaty is you can get crouching light kick after a UOH, I’ll go for that into super sometimes

[@JiBbo]

She actually has a lot of meaty attacks that improve the advantage and ate useful, like meaty 5hk and 6hk

[@GatsuRage]

15:30 looking at your game's fps u have it locked at 59? my game marks 60 on fightcade with both steam's and msi overlay.

[@gingeral253]

Balatro bgm?

[@fortidogi8620]

Question! If meaty attacks dont do flat hitstun at a later frame like they do in modern fighters, how do late UOH links work?

[@JiBbo]

because they do lol. It does what it wants. I've heard it explained a different way recently, how it's the same hitbox. 3rd Strike hitboxes can change during the active frames or something like that

[@fortidogi8620]

@@JiBbo So like, because they didnt change data on THIS move, it works as expected. Makes sense.

[@hfcriske]

What is the frame data on red parries? Does it differ on normals, specials and super arts? I've heard many differing things about them too.

[@DoctorDarlingTTV]

You have a 2f window to red parry iirc

[@hfcriske]

@@DoctorDarlingTTV I've also heard this number, so it's probably correct. Would love to have it verified though

[@princesssleepyhead8043]

The balatro song lol

[@Huh-bc8vs]

Lua trainer is helping break down 3s to a science. Love it! Just wish 3s wasn’t flooded with macro/ turbo users online across the board. It really makes me sad to be honest. Great video none the less

[@christianf.4833]

I think, maybe someone can confirm, that if you air parry from a fwd jump, youll be on a neutral jump state after the parry.

[@GlowingOrangeOoze]

I think it's the opposite and if you neutral/back jump parry you leave the parry in a forward jump. I saw an alex neutral jump parry and then punish with flying cross chop which is only allowed on forward jump

[@shotsniper009]

Elena losing frame advantage with meaty made me laugh so I agree with whoever did that. lol

[@JiBbo]

It was petty, right? hahaha I feel like I got trolled from 20 year plan

[@mothballmouth]

Love to see the BGC hat 🫡 big ups stoner

[@jamesragland03]

🦆

[@bogartwilley]

You asked, so I will answer, as it's not easy to know the answer... With real hardware, the game runs at 1 specific speed, all the time, and it's designed to ping the peripherals (in the case of Turd Strike, the Arcade Stick and Buttons) -roughly- every say 8-ish miliseconds. With Emulated Hardware, you have to emulate the Operating System, and the game runs underneath that, which is fine, but it leaves allot of extra math that needs done BEFORE the game can do it's math. With Emulated Hardware, you have to keep your FPS/Refresh Rate/Frames calculated (which is DIFFERENT than drawn frames), at LEAST as high as the normal game, however if you can get the machine you run the emulator on to calculate the math faster than that, you have the option to force the CPU to ping your peripherals faster than the real game normally would, but that makes the game itself go faster, and if it's running at a speed faster than the screen it's being drawn on, then you end up with screen tearing (if you don't know what that is, it's when 1 portion of the screen is not aligned with the others, and you end up with that god-awful experience that SF6 gives you where the top of your screen is running away from the bottom half). However, if you can make the host system's CPU run faster, and limited the number of drawn frames to 60, then you get the game as intended, with the added benefit of that Shoryuken you mash at the last instant possibly saving your bacon, when if it was a real cabinet, you would've probably got owned. If your host system is fast enough to run the emulator so fast, you can make it ping your peripherals every say 1ms, then you get a more responsive experience. So responsive in fact, the real cabinets might end up feeling laggy. I hope you learned something.

[@JiBbo]

That's good info, I suspected there's much more to it than just input delay, though it's probably a good start. The ping process you describe sounds a lot like polling rates

[@bogartwilley]

@@JiBbo Yeah, different names for the same thing. As always, I hope you learned something! ^-^

[@purifyws]

Losing frame advantage on a meaty is insane lol, what is this game In those shown cases (Makoto and Elena), it makes sense from a potential balance perspective, but some of the other things like the advantage being different on Ryu/Chun/Q is random haha. Maybe even some conscious choices to throw these factors in to *force* people to play it by feel! lol. Intentional or not, a cool result We're now in the era of the digital scroooollllls (scrolls being what Saisyu called the mooks/Arcadia magazines) speaking of those though it'd be interesting to have translations of those old Japanese guides and if any of this was in there. I have the NGBC one because of course I do

[@JiBbo]

You mean Enji BEEEEE C

[@RealKengeki]

based balatro enjoyer

[@essgeekay8091]

Iirc you can't tech throws if you're in an active parry window UNLESS your opponent is throwing you in their active parry window

[@4g63t8]

Emulating is hard because of the clock on the board. Quartz.

[@Babook]

I don't think 60Hz exists for color images in 15KHz, it's always 59.59Hz.

[@Aatrains512]

I just lost a balatro run in agonizing fashion and am trying to escape to 3s, you’re really gonna do that to me huh

[@JiBbo]

my b!

[@Purlypurlington]

the anti air parry is hilarious that does not help parrying makotos ax kick at all

[@JiBbo]

Yeah, that makes sense!

[@MrPottsTeaching]

Nica KO said that the Arcade is Slower then the PC. He call it Off line Lag lmao hahah ;D We would do moves too fast and miss them lmao hahah ;D Its about a frame slower so you can REACT to everything!!!!

[@Shodokan123]

That was before the FC version was set to the actual CPS3 timing. The only real difference now is the input lag, though a player named SEBA compared FC to Arcade in this regard for speed/timing and it was the same, they had a video and everything. There are other videos comparing CPS3 to PS2, PS3, X360 etc and the timing is different and basic things like just holding up will desync, but for FBNeo with proper setup its identical to arcade.

[@mariotaz]

Third Balatro

[@saado99]

10:34 yea anything that's under 6f startup, reversaling into these moves is a legitimate way to beat throws if you know they are coming. It's a 100% legitimate tactic that's why you see Chun players wakeup with close HK, Yun with the stand LP TC, Ken crouch MK/close MP, Ryu/Akuma close HP etc. etc. Even something like Ken crouch MK, even though it's 6f, the reality is it's very hard to perfectly time a throw such that it hits perfectly after the throw invul ends, making this a legitimate tactic, 3S started "wakeup low forward" in my eyes before it was a thing in SF4, 5 and now 6. This is actually one of the cool things about 3S and makes it so fun, you ALWAYS have an answer on defense, and the person on offense has to be cautious of how they are running their offense. Sometimes, like Oro the character actually has a big advantage on defense the R:R is opposite because defensively he can do anything into close MP, even just raw close MP (5f startup) due to 6f throw invul, and unblockable you to death.

[@JiBbo]

Even Alex doing wake-up EX Flash Chop... I thought it was really scrubby cause it's too slow to work vs throw but honestly, still kinda hard to time the throw against it

[@saado99]

@@JiBbo oh wow I haven't seen that before lol. I've seen wakeup stand MP of course, even wakeup superjump cancel MP/HP chop but not that. Also probably good cause its a mid and you can't low parry it.

[@187bronco]

As someone who has played 3rd strike for 20 years I can tell you it’s overrated and definitely not for everyone, even if you love other street fighter games it’s to hard to get excited to get into it if you have never played it before

[@JiBbo]

As someone who has also played 3rd strike for 20 years I can tell you that it feels pretty GOT DANG good to parry 720 somebody in neutral

[@187bronco]

@@JiBbo yes it does