The Lives of Civilians within Caesar's Legion

[@TheElusiveReality]

"if youre already living in a wasteland, it might as well be peaceful" very well said

[@miketacos9034]

Uuuntil Caesar dies and the Legion devolves into factional civil wars.

[@chadlegionary3748]

Unlikely, Caesar is a title, not a person. Legate lanius would be the next Caesar but after having stated in game that he doesn’t care for rulership, I would imagine Lucius would end up being next in line. The legion itself has a steady stream of recruits to ensure it keeps on living also as they essentially won’t stop growing until they conquer the americas.

[@gaffgarion7049]

@@miketacos9034 speculation from the mouth of your enemies doesn't mean much.

[@anarcartoonist3119]

I must point out, however, that you may be confusing peace with quiet...

[@nagger8216]

@@gaffgarion7049 I mean, Boone and the NCR speculate that there's already an entire line of succession after Caesar dies, so like, what the fuck are you even going on about?

[@AlyssMa7rin]

Old World Blues mod for HOI 4 has taken me from being mildly interested in Fallout, to being completely obsessed. Thank you for fueling my addiction

[@TheHalfLeft]

Have you played any fallout games?

[@AlyssMa7rin]

@@TheHalfLeft Recently completed Fallout 4 (With a Mod that turned the Minutemen into the Enclave) and I'm trying to find some way to make Fallout: NV look more modern that doesn't cause a CTD every time I enter a new area. Any suggestions on that front?

[@TheHalfLeft]

@@AlyssMa7rin nah sorry, I played new vegas vanilla. Fallout 4 was my first fallout game and I played the shit out of it in 2017 but started new vegas this year and i was unbelievably hooked, I think you’ll like it.

[@КГБКолДжорджКостанца-т2ф]

​@@AlyssMa7rin If you search "Viva New Vegas" you should be able to find a guide that will help you stop crashing overall you don't have to follow it fully the important parts are the utility and bug fix sections and just go off of there and you should be good.

[@ashirii8347]

There honestly aren't that much "graphical" improvement mods except a few good texture packs and one or two engine lighting overhaul, but it can still come out looking pretty good if you put the work in digging around

[@JimUK]

It's such a shame that they didn't get the time to flesh out the Legion more, in game they're not much more than generic bad guys, this is why I think they should have left Ulysses as a Legion companion and not cut him from the game for the DLC, he could have added a lot of depth to the faction.

[@theloreempire]

He had so much dialogue they couldn’t fit him on the disc, but they were way too thorough in removing his content. Not even subtitles remain.

[@Shinhotep]

@@theloreempire 'cause he was essentially remade for Lonesome Road, Avellone even spoke about wanting to then bring him back into the main game as a companion once more but obviously couldn't due to time and money. It's a real shame.

[@sebastianc5155]

theyre not the bad guys

[@kooolainebulger8117]

loads of people get the legion wrong due to the shallow in game content

[@MarquisLeary34]

Even as despicable as they are, I really like how they're written and love to see them get more lore meat.

[@FatrickAteman]

It’s interesting to note Raul is also fine with the NCR taking over. After seeing so much chaos and pointless cruelty over his life he’s fine with any group cleaning it up. It would be interesting to see him and Arcade debate about an independent Vegas.

[@donutlovingwerewolf8837]

Someone make this a mod, please!

[@vcsa681]

Arcade: *Makes a long thesis full of his arguments of why he thinks is a good/bad idea* Raul: "It might be good idfc"

[@nukesrus2663]

​@@vcsa681"Whatever you say boss"

[@danielsurvivor1372]

​@@vcsa681 Nah Raul be like: "I don't think devolving entire Mojave into lawless anarchy is such a good idea bo- I mean Arcade"

[@vcsa681]

@@danielsurvivor1372 "Ah yes,let's make the Mojave Independent so the people can riot and kill themselves in the process,great idea

[@DevelopmentRobco]

Similarities of the Minutemen and Legion: •Both LARP as historical warriors •Both follow an unelected military leader •Both promise peace and stability in exchange for joining said group and paying for protection •Both hold a strong anti-raider/tribal view Differences: The legion enslaves raiders and tribals while the minutemen outright kill them.

[@BitspokesV2]

I know it’s just a video game mechanic but an important note is that settlers cannot refuse the General’s orders. You’re a doctor and a pacifist? Get on that security post. You’re a farmer who has never trekked? You’re a supply runner.

[@zikkimeister215]

cant really compare those two considering the first one comes from bethesda, even tho new vegas wasnt as fleshed out as it should be the legion is a much more intriguing faction with a system that shows that it would work and does work.

[@DevelopmentRobco]

@@zikkimeister215 All true

[@TastefulGorilla]

Verdict: The Minutemen are better.

[@blazin076]

the minutemen never slaughtered a whole town of people, and doesnt treat women like shit.

[@MillieBlackRose]

It's nice getting to hear about the areas you don't see in-game.

[@pwnstarryan5265]

They should make a mod where you can go east. See all the legion territories and everything. Like Denver which is apparently overrun with wild dogs.

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

Those take time, but Fallout Nuevo Mexico is coming along nicely, and that mod has Legion included trying to take over more parts of Mexico

[@radec5437]

@@bloodmoonangel8925 sincerely, After the recents big mods, I don't have that much Hope

[@mega-bustershepard5537]

@@radec5437 Same. I would like to see more QOL mods for the Legion. Some more NPC's, maybe a small town, more quests etc. I don't need another Frontier or New California.

[@radec5437]

@@mega-bustershepard5537 yes!

[@Ray-yv7kn]

@@mega-bustershepard5537 There's Legion Quests Expanded.

[@ankereisenman4824]

I’m glad that you acknowledged that people view the Legion from the comfort of their gaming chairs. I would happily give crops to the army that kills 20 foot tall lizards with razors for hands, walking radioactive corpses that reek of death, and gangs of sadistic cannibals.

[@MarquisLeary34]

Not me. Also, considering that they'll enslave and rape your wife just the same as raiders, that's not much comfort. I'll take my chances with the deathclaws and ghouls if it means not having my wife and daughter end up as sperm dumpsters and pack mules for LARPers, you understand.

[@kapitan19969838]

Hear hear!

[@Kaxology]

It's less about people viewing Legion from a modern point of view and more about how the game presents the Legion. The courier is stuck in the middle, being able to choose either side when most of the inhabitants never had one so of course, we would choose the diplomatic choice. We also see the worst of both sides, NCR chasing away people in need or taxation, Legion crucifying and enslaving civilians. We also see the good of NCR with their ration handouts while we never really see the Legion do anything considered moral or kind. As yaboiii pointed out, the Legion is not built to last and their barbaric and brutal nature doesn't really need exist anymore considering the state of the wasteland. The way I see it, there's not really a single reason to support the Legion when all you're doing is just perpetuating brutality in a wasteland that's seen enough of it.

[@xijinping4418]

Thank you for telling us how quickly you'd bend over, we needed to know that information, I'm sure.

[@georgecostanza712]

The same also applies to people who like the Legion though... You're doing it from a position of comfort, no worries about being crucified.

[@pyrosauria7444]

I also get the feeling that, like the Roman Empire itself, the settlements and civilized people of Legion lands also benefit from slave labor. It’d be quite the fitting punishment for the Legion to turn raiders who attacked a settlement into worker slaves for a settlement if it meant increasing production. We even have some evidence to back this up given the whole Office of slavery in the Legion (though why Caesar decided to have it ruled by a consul still confuses me).

[@TheBrickMasterB]

Even the Roman Empire maintained an illusion of proper bureaucracy until the very end. The Senate, even after being made irrelevant after the Third Century, still convened each year until the late 600s.

[@anthonyp.4734]

I think the creators did well in showing an allusion of the legion government. Thou I swear I think the food traders where you pick up Veronica some of them say true to kaeser sometimes

[@xijinping4418]

Tfw you're literally trying to justify slavery

[@TheBrickMasterB]

@@xijinping4418 Be careful when you're making claims like that; you can make descriptive comments without making prescriptive ones, and it would be like saying you're justifying racial privilege by saying someone benefits from it.

[@Ray-yv7kn]

@@xijinping4418 Oh here we go again. Answer honestly, are you American (US)/European?

[@rejvaik00]

I like how this guy thought that he was beating this horse to death by making legion videos but they were so popular that he decided to continue making legion videos

[@nurgle-j5n]

Ave, true to Viewcount

[@nathanlevesque7812]

Beating a dead horse would be saying that there's nothing redeemable about the Legion, no matter how persuasive the in-game propaganda and rumors may feel.

[@Jorvaskrr]

Reading Legion lore made me realize that Caesar is using the legion like The Emperor of Mankind was using the Thunder Warriors. Once they finished their job (conquering Earth) they would be replaced by Space Marines. Once the Legion finished conquering the west, Caesar would have changed the model. Instead of a brutal, romanesque fighting force there would be something different.

[@jager2749]

Whoa, never know that before. But how Sallow Will replace the Legión ? It shouod be explored more.

[@Jorvaskrr]

@@jager2749 Probably a more modernised, smaller force like the NCR. At some point, they have to stop using human wave tactics. You can clearly see that the Legion is a force built for conquest not governance, otherwise, Caesar would be more inclined to give a damn about the wellbeing of his troops. After all, Caesar said that NCR is thesis and his Legion is the Antithesis. Once he wins, the Legion will become the synthesis. Which means, they will have a government and standing army, an almost different entity, but with the Legion's core ideals at heart.

[@spiffygonzales5160]

First Galactic Empire is stronger than the Imperium of Man

[@Jorvaskrr]

@@spiffygonzales5160 As much as I love Star Wars more than 40k, things in 40k are too op for anything that the Galactic Empire can throw at them.

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@Jorvaskrr Let me rephrase that. StarWars LEGENDS First Galactic Empire is stronger than the Imperium of Man

[@hunter5559]

I recently finished a book called Guns, Germs, and Steel. Among other things, the book describes the sizes of cultural groups and by extension the many tribes that make up those groups and how they 'advance' through technological stages. While reading this book I had the thought "How big is Caesar's Legion really?" If you think about it the phrase "Conqueror of 87 tribes" sounds impressive until you think about how big a tribe really is, if it's 87 individual tribes then that would put the Legion at roughly 5000-8000 troops, but also considering the Legions harsh recruitment standards that number shrinks to about 1500. Or do they mean 87 cultural groups, in which case (going by original-timeline numbers i.e Navajo, Cree, Ojibway cultural groups, so this estimate is already waaaaay off) the Legions size would be closer to 70000. Plus Caesar states that the Legion has cities of it's own, and the way that Raul and Dale Barton describe Legion towns and settlements it sounds more like each town and city in Legion territory operates more like vassal city-states and possibly even satrapies, where in exchange for protection these settlements offer production and resources to the Legion. I theorize it would work as such: the Legion capture slaves, those slaves are sold to their vassal states, those vassals then use the slave labour to produce food and other essentials for themselves and then the Legion takes say 50% as tribute. I think a deep dive exploring how big the Legion actually is (in terms of population and military capacity) would be a very interesting video. Keep up the great work man, love your videos

[@csmrookie9600]

That actually would be pretty damn interesting. Perhaps even give some insight on like different regions. For example, where is most of production done at?

[@ChristianAuditore14]

Put more 0s

[@MrShs812]

Although it should be noted there are certain exceptions to the so called “Guns, Germs, and Steel theory”. African Histories being a withstanding example. So perhaps it would be best to examine histories specifically of that of the American Southwest and that of the Roman Empire to a smaller degree.

[@Nick-zp8wk]

That book is absolutely awful and has some ridiculous claims and assumptions.

[@VineFynn]

That book is infamously bad pop history.

[@yourdadsotherfamily3530]

For any legion playthroughs honest hearts is your best friend! Get asssss many Xander root and broc flower as you can grab there get long haul perks etc etc if you need but the health poultices you can make afterward are soooooo worth it honestly health poultices are op as shit and better than stimpacks and can be stacked with any other food healing items like desert dessert or caravan lunches. Edit: also legion has the best safe house reward. Get the safe house key from Lucius in Caesar’s tent when you are ‘liked’ by the legion. Go to the safe house and Veteran Atticus will give you 2 stealth boys once every 2-3 days. Thank me later it’s unlimited stealth boys for legion playthroughs that’s a god send

[@temxasred3086]

How many stealth boys do you use in a normal playthrough, tho? I played a 10 luck character once and had 10 stealth boys after finishing Come Fly With Me and I ended the game with maybe 7-8 left

[@how_to_be_a_Old_legionary44]

yeah. legion safe house my favorite too!

[@yourdadsotherfamily3530]

@@temxasred3086 trust me as a melee/ throwing weapons playthrough doing a Caesar’s legion lore friendly game of no meds /drugs. You can use old world tech in advancement of the legion but trust me as the above build you’ll need atleast 2-3 three for Quarry Junction or Death Claw Promontory each LOL its good to have though because again when you get far enough in the legion (for good reasons!) the ncr or other factions hostile to you will attack you on sight even without wearing legion uniforms or armors. The guards can see through it and attack you even if your wearing the NCR uniform sometimes. So for my Camp Mccaren Missions I definitely needed the stealth boys to report to the fumantarii in the airport base My character was light armor so having stealth boys being infinite was great till I got my faster movement perks and other melee perks to rank me up or beef me up for brawling

[@easternoilcrisis]

When I first got there 2 random glowing ones killed Atticus. I sometimes question this game

[@yourdadsotherfamily3530]

@@easternoilcrisis lmao damn bruh you playing pc modded by chance? I never saw him leave the building when I was playing console but I just saw him come and go out the front door as I waited 2-3 days at a time for day reeeeeward

[@ShamanMcLamie]

The Legion sounds a lot like the Mongol Empire. The Mongols fully subjugated and conscripted other Steppe Nomads into their armies. For the more civilized peoples living in cities and tending farms the choice was be annihilated, or submit to Mongol rule which basically amounted to keep the peace and pay tribute otherwise do whatever you want. The Mongols also maintained peace within their Empire and the roads were famously some of the safest within the Mongol Empire. The Legion effectively subjugated the tribals and conscripted them into their armies, but for the towns and settlements they seemed to have largely been left alone with the caveat they don't cause trouble for the Legion, pay tribute and fullfill the odd Legion request. If they oppose the Legion in anyway well that settlement is not going to be on the map for very long. Also Legion territory is often lauded as some of the safest land in the wastes. Look at Primm in one ending the Legion moves in, but they don't massacre, pillage and enslave the populace. They basically take control of security and for the most part let the towns people live their lives as before.

[@Monsuco]

If they ever do a remake of New Vegas I really hope they let us see more of the Legion. Maybe a town that's under their control. Have a few civilians actually say Caesar is harsh but he keeps them safe. Have Caesar describe his plans to emulate the civilian side of ancient Rome too in addition to the military side.

[@lorddeathofmurdermountain76]

I think its worth noting that the legion can controll their terratories where as the NCR is strechted thin in its own raiders/gangs 150 years after fallout 1 still are active.

[@MarquisLeary34]

Problem is the price you pay for control, and if you're a woman, you're just as well off with the raiders as the Legion.

[@lorddeathofmurdermountain76]

@@MarquisLeary34 no it's not known but the legion does have a civilian population the towns in their territory produce food and raw materials for the legion they don't actually serve the legion they just live in their territory the legion don't care about the civilized towns they only want tribals and raiders because a they are more fit for war than a civilized town

[@mortarion9813]

​@@MarquisLeary34 Debatable. We don't know how female citizens are treated; only how the Legion views them in terms of capability and their role in combat. The only Legion women we see in the game are slaves, go figure. Don't forget that the Legion itself is also just the army; an army that's currently still on a warpath and has already been through several conflicts and conquests before reaching the Mojave.

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@mortarion9813 Eh, until that day we can see what Flagstaff or other Legion areas are like, I gotta go on what is offered up. Just modded Fallout 4 to include them for my dream match of Enclave vs Legion.

[@mortarion9813]

@@MarquisLeary34 Yooo, nice. Did the same recently myself.

[@easycompany8225]

Caesar’s Legion in NV reminds me of the ancient Assyrian Empire. While their societies are both seen as ruthless, we need to look inversely at the fact that it took such harshness to bring territories under the yolk of empire. Canonically it’d be awesome if Caesar’s Legion wins, we could hypothetically see the rise of a Persian empire, an empire just as tough, but was more tolerant and who’d rather make a deal than fight a war.

[@sowpmactavish]

*yoke

[@MarquisLeary34]

Well, awesome unless you're female or don't like the idea of your male children getting drafted to die for a megalomaniac.

[@eagleowl833]

I guess a new new california republic could be formed after the legion eventually collapses. So NCR simps will be ok if the legion does win. Or even a californian empire can attempt to continue the legacy of ceaser while the power vacuum left by the legions collapse can result in an awesome war lord period were tribals battle it out across the californian waistland and warlords use diplomacy, cunning and of corse, conflict to obtain the most power for themselves. Old factions once thought lost to history can re-emerge from the ashes of the legion and attempt to rebuild what they had lost (new masters army, revived brotherhood of steal, NCR reminants and without a doubt, the enclave (but this time it can be a playable faction that isn't obsessed with genocide)) and this can all take place in an ultimate, multi state spanning fallout game that brings the franchise back to its roots while still embracing the future!

[@Sangheilitat117]

Wouldn’t that be more of the Parthians than the Persians?

[@Hell_O7]

@@Sangheilitat117 That's later on, I think

[@stevenolson1295]

Ted Gunderson is a prime example of where the NCR was heading.

[@BilboBaggMan]

There are actually people who have never played a legion run because they think they are taking some moral high ground lol

[@theloreempire]

My player character is female. I'm not THAT self destructive. Not only that, but I'd lose some of my favourite companions and end up dividing the Enclave Remnants. I'd enjoy Legion runs a lot more if they had managed to keep the original idea for Ulysses, because I really like his character.

[@BilboBaggMan]

@@theloreempire I also usually play female characters, in what way would it be self destructive? You are basically ceasers successor regardless of gender, he is clearly not a sexist and is the only one whose opinion matters in the legion. Would being a man in the slave arena serve you better for some reason?

[@Pyromancer_]

@@theloreempire After the Legion ending, your face gets immortalized with a coin so who knows, after a woman's major part in winning the dam, Caesar and furthermore The Legion might see the use in integrating women in the military

[@theloreempire]

@@BilboBaggMan Their entire methodology revolves around minimaxing, the problem is that they aren’t taught why they do it. Caesar uses women almost solely for reproduction for a ruthlessly pragmatic reason: the mortality rate of his troops is high, and the war machine needs to keep running. But that’s not what he’s teaching his followers. They’re instead led to believe that women fill this role because they’re otherwise inferior to men in every way. That’s not the basis for a great future for a female Courier. Even those who have been of great service are treated as expendable. See Joshua Graham. Caesar doesn’t have a clear line of succession, and even if he survives his tumour, he probably won’t live for too much longer. In that case, Lanius will take over, and he outright threatens to rape your player character (female) if you sass him before the battle with low karma. You gave Caesar one great conquest. Congratulations. That doesn’t mean you’re going to be respected as anything outside of Caesar’s most useful tool. And when there are no more Dams to conquer, it's not hard to imagine what'll happen. Caesar himself may not be sexist, but he's cultivated an entire society that shares the idea of "women are inferior." He can't just backpedal on that, it'll make him seem weak or unsure of himself.

[@sovietunion7643]

idk i just don't like joining the faction that cruxifies people i don't if thats moral high ground but whatever. i'll take house's cold calculating, NCRs taxes, or yes mans anarchy, but taking the faction that is more or less displayed as mostly evil isn't something i really want to spend a whole run on plus a legion run also means like half the map is hostile towards you if you get declared a terrorist by NCR and that makes the game just that much more annoying

[@baldfatman5374]

The trader mentions in the legion camp there’s no raiders in the legion held areas and there fine with you so as long as you don’t do drink or drugs.

[@aceclover758]

Or if you aren’t a woman

[@alpacalover0]

@@aceclover758 Only tribal women are subjected to this within conquered territories.

[@YuGiOhAbridgeFAN]

@@aceclover758 Depends on station as a woman. Slave woman? Sucks to be you. Citizen Woman, just know your place. Priestess? Congrats you are better than most males. Courier? Congrats NO ONE can tell you no...except the arena master...but...you can fix that.

[@carlgustafemilmannerheim5661]

@@aceclover758 female subjects have the same rights and stability as their male counterparts no? He just said in the video that the subjects are autonomous, they just gave to pay their taxes, the same as in the NCR. The only difference is that the Legions lands are safer.

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@carlgustafemilmannerheim5661 Those women in the Legion camps didn't look too autonomous to me...

[@pipe_2k719]

Amazing how we still get content from this masterpiece

[@cleoxi4485]

I think another thing you have to consider when you think of the legion as a bunch of people who traded freedom for safety is that life in the wasteland isn't exactly free with the very tangible threat of raiders and mutants constantly looming over you. You could say that it's preferable to slavery but not everyone is a protagonist with a rocket launcher and would rather just put up with Caesar than chance it in the wasteland

[@jakkuhl6223]

An ironic note I've seen no one else pick up on is that the NCR's inability to translate its taxes into security is indirectly responsible for the legion existing. The chain of events leading to that was when Edward Sallow's father was killed by raiders when he was 2. Hooah hooah rangers nothing, man; if they'd done their jobs, Ed's mom would've never had to work for the Followers, and he'd never go on his ill fated journey that led to his becoming Caesar. Cue Palpatine "ironic" clip. Works as an unspoken motivation for making his faction literally the safest expanse of territory in the setting.

[@vetarlittorf1807]

Yes, but as Rose Cassidy said, the Legion could be the NCR's wake-up call. If the NCR wins the war, there is a good chance that they will reform in order to better protect its citizens. So in a way, Caesar was right about his Hegelian dialectics, but not the way he intended. Because the synthesis will be a better NCR. I say that because the Legion will collapse once Caesar dies, since his followers are loyal only to him, not to his Legion.

[@thepariah3516]

The Legion's philosophy of war and culture is literally "Might makes Right". By far the Legion are one of my favourite Factions in all of Fallout, despite their admittedly woeful under-development in New Vegas.

[@NiceGuy-Nationalist]

For those who haven't done a lot of looking into Caesars Legion, I'll try to call attention to some important points most people aren't aware of. First let's start with the man behind it all: Caesar isn't merely the leader some raider army, he grew up among the Followers of the Apocalypse (if you don't know who they are, I suggest taking a minute to familiarize yourself), thus receiving a topnotch education by any standard of the wasteland. In their extensive libraries (yes, the Followers have those) he would read tirelessly on the subjects of history, philosophy, psychology, politics/statecraft, and yes, warfare. Caesar is easily a contender for the most educated and intelligent man in the wasteland, comparable to Mr House, the man is a certified genius. Next up, the Legion and it's purpose: The Legion is comprised of many different tribes (keep in mind that the NCR and BoS are also tribes), the individuals have had their past loyalties and grudges are swept aside, replaced with loyalty to the Legion, it's ethos and it's leader. This organization was built from the ground up by Caesar to forge men into steel, it has a strict hierarchy but is also strictly a meritocracy, Legionaries have a lot of potential for upward mobility if they demonstrate drive, resourcefulness, and capabilities that set them apart from the rank & file. All actions are a means to an end, this also applies to Legion itself. It isn't meant to remain as is indefinitely, but to serve a purpose, and once that purpose is achieved, it will change. The end for the Legion is to tame the wasteland and bring tribes of the West under one banner, ending perpetual conflict and creating an environment where a real civilization can actually grow. The Legion is the means to that end. Conquering the NCR (their largest adversary and the embodiment of repeating mistakes of the past) is the last step to accomplishing the goal laid out by Caesar himself, the conflict between thesis and antithesis to achieve synthesis (a gross oversimplification). Once the NCR is removed, with no comparable external threat to their stability, the Legion will then be able to shift emphasis away from martial might, to focus more on infrastructure, government and culture, utilizing the resources of the NCR to those ends as well. I can go on further, but for the time being, it's approaching midnight and I'm pretty tired.

[@MarquisLeary34]

A meritocracy? Funny, the women don't get much chance to prove their merit...

[@NiceGuy-Nationalist]

@@MarquisLeary34 So you're advocating the enslavement of women? Hyperbole, yes, but your comment again shows a lack of understanding in just what the Legion is. Every Legionary is a slave, in service to the Legion and it's leader. The vast majority of "citizens" in Legion territory aren't enslaved in any way, but every man in their military is. Caesar does not permit his warriors to use technology as a crutch, where only those who've already proven their martial skill and strength in battle, are allowed the use of firearms. Women aren't permitted to fight in the ranks of the Legion for a number of reasons, but chief among them is physical strength. In game and lore, there are examples of women that are quite capable in combat, but they're an exception, not the rule. In the real world, this can be observed by looking clinically at the many examples that have come about in the last couple decades. Whether it's the US military repeatedly lowering qualification standards for combat MOS' so that they can have examples to point to of women in infantry rifle battalions, or the world's strongest woman losing arm wrestling matches to very average men, as well as transgender individuals dominating women's sports where they're allowed to compete etc. This is not to say that women are inferior to men, but that the sexes are physically built different and correspondingly excel at different things in most cases, in this, natural development of physical strength, constitution and aggression.

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@NiceGuy-Nationalist Funny, you say that, but it wasn't the women at the camp who, when I played a female courier who were wanting to "Try me out". Also, I noticed the women were the ones doing the back crushing manual labor acting as pack mules, not the Legionnaires. It's so funny that I find people who do the "Women aren't inferior, just different" argument are also the ones who use it to point out how women are, in fact, inferior. They never point out how women are supposed to be superior or in superior positions over men. It's almost like not all "advantages" are created equal, eh? Also, the "profligates" of the NCR, The Boomers, and Brotherhood of Steel don't have much trouble finding women who can put bullets into Legionnaires reliably. Tech isn't a crutch, it's a legit advantage. Even in the game, if you go in against someone in power armor with a minigun wearing football gear and a bumper sword (and your name isn't Lanius), you will lose most of the time. Constitution and aggression? Try to out-stamina or aggression a grenade armed robot that's purely programmed to kill you. Your physical might and prowess don't mean jack when your enemy can just pound you into atoms from afar with missiles and mini-nukes at their leisure. Caveat: This is not the say I don't like the Legion from a writing point, they're extremely fascinating. I just hold the position that they're bad people and Caesar for all his genius is basically pissing against the tide.

[@NiceGuy-Nationalist]

@@MarquisLeary34 Unnamed NPCs used for flavor, hmm. Another thing that you're missing, is that Legionaries frequently best BoS knights, NCR Rangers, Super Mutants, and even Death Claws in single combat (there are no DC's or any other hostile creatures in Legion territory, for good reason BTW). Despite the NCR possessing everything that you outlined, by the start of the game The Republic is up against the ropes, while everything is proceeding as planned for the Legion, which doesn't really need much from The Courier to achieve victory at the Hoover dam, whereas with the NCR you basically have to move Heaven and Earth to give them a Fighting Chance, despite their technological superiority. To give a real world analogy, you need only look at the Taliban in Afghanistan, or North Vietnam during the Vietnam war, both fighting the United States which possessed a whole different world of technology and resources, yet through guile and fanaticism, both were able to achieve victory against an opponent which on paper they had no business defeating. In both cases, there was a great expenditure of life to achieve victory, but in the end the ideal that they fought for, however much one might disagree with it, won out.

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@NiceGuy-Nationalist The Vietnam example isn't a good one. The US never lost a single engagement below the platoon level, and our loss there was far more due to political rather than military ineptitude. Besides, we had no business even being there but that's another story. Or maybe it is, since the main trouble with NCR was in it's logistics and bureaucracy rather than it's quality of troops. Also, I barely count the "Legion lands are safe" stuff because the Legion it'self is a threat to anyone living there, especially if you're female. Would you consider it safe if you were liable to be raped at any minute while somewhere?

[@grizzly3793]

A significant aspect of *how* the legion is able to protect their people is often overlooked imo. In essence, the Legion is an upscaled raider gang. The safety for the Legion's inhabitants comes from them not being on the receiving end of this massive raider gang. And it's notable how much of the Legion ending changes if Caesar does die.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Not really, since the Legion still has a civilian population and actually produces goods and services unlike raider gangs.

[@WELSHGAMER99]

@@GeraltofRivia22 Through slave labour

[@cat_city2009]

Casar's Legion is barbaric for our world, but makes sense in the world of Fallout.

[@soyhugo390]

hell, is barbarick for the occident world, but for the rest of the world its just another nation

[@cat_city2009]

@@soyhugo390 This is the kind of stupid shit that Americans believe. I'll bet you live everyone outside the US and Western Europe live in huts ffs.

[@Basedlocation]

The dissolute will never understand, we need this irl profligate

[@cat_city2009]

@@Basedlocation Log off and work on your mental health.

[@zacariasdelalcazar8873]

Our world very much needs "civilization reborn".

[@mrunclejebediah]

Always wanted to watch this kind of video, thank you for making it.

[@colinb8623]

I have to say this is the first video that has made me think about the Legion from the perspective of a wastelander in the Legion. A great video 🤌

[@chadlegionary3748]

Another outstanding video, you’ve become a favourite KZbinr and I look forward to each of your videos!

[@joeytodd795]

As someone who, since playing the game, picked up Latin over the quarantine...these pronunciations are super refreshing, upon returning to the Mohave. Now if we could only get a Latin Big Iron version for the old Legion playthrough

[@TheFrogEnjoyer]

I always look forward to uploads from you

[@tarheelpro87]

I like videos like these cause while I believe the Legion isn't the best ending and are evil, they're more than just the average bad guy. They're a faction that has reasons for their brutality and methods, plus they have pros too. Really NCR and Legion are both cool factions. The only "bad" factions are The Railroad, and for some The Institute, but even the Institute has cool things, like their underground bunker filled with advanced tech, and other things. The Railroad is only cool cause they're like undercover agents and it ends there.

[@ijneb1248]

Railroad sucks lol every single side quest is just "oh no another safehouse got destroyed by the institute!"

[@xbigbooshx4643]

This channel made a great Railroad is weakest video. Good stuff. I despise the Railroad and this channel fleshed out my grievances with them more. Although, admittedly, my biggest gripe is that I despise the idea of gen 3 synths. Gen 2 don't bother me because they are not that smart, just robots, and they are CLEARLY robotic and not almost identical to humankind.

[@tarheelpro87]

@@ijneb1248 exactly, the whole Railroad not only is it a boring faction, but it's playthroughs suck

[@ijneb1248]

@@tarheelpro87 i made a spy-themed character and wanted to do a railroad playthrough, but after finding out that if you ever mess up their main quest, they just tell you to leave and work with the minutemen instead, I wiped them out and finished with the institute instead

[@teogonzalez7957]

I dislike the notion that the institute are evil for no reason. They’re like the enclave but to the extreme. While the enclave are everything bad with pre war America trying to destroy the new to make way for the old, the institute are completely removed from post war society. Thus, they do not see the people of the wasteland as people, but as a lost cause, a bunch of savages who have no hope of advancing, so might as well exploit, experiment and sabotage them. I also don’t think the railroad is bad, but that’s mainly lore-gameplay inconsistency. Bethesda wanted to have their cake and eat it too by showing them as the scrappy vigilante cell, but then have them take over the wasteland. They should’ve fused the minutemen and railroad endings into one, so minutemen take over the commonwealth even with a railroad victory.

[@heribertgeilhubrgg8575]

Great Video True to Caesar

[@juno6526]

Imagine unironically saying true to caesar lol

[@ilocosmetro]

@@juno6526 Watch your tongue, Wastrel!

[@heribertgeilhubrgg8575]

@@juno6526 Imagine being a profligate

[@yourdadsotherfamily3530]

@@juno6526 you got ho-ratio’d

[@juno6526]

Imagine talking like a character from a video game, you people must be taking these games seriously lol

[@rejvaik00]

Ave true to courier!

[@MillieBlackRose]

Me going through all the comments with true to Caesar at the end then me reading yours then having to be like "wait what" and read it again. Lmfao.

[@combinecommando001]

It's beyond amazing that we still talk, debate and enjoy a game that's over 10 years old at this point. It really shows just how Bethesda failed to understand what made Fallout a great series in the first place. And sadly, now it's known as a joke and failure amongst gamers. Thankfully, NV still props it up.

[@a.monach7602]

It'd be cool if people *tried* talking about stuff from the Bethesda Fallouts, but they don't. NV is still well discussed, because it's easy to talk about the old Fascists VS. Nutters debate when done with little nuance.

[@hunterblue7816]

They really haven't, the only reason NV is talked about the most is because what the other guy said. It has zero nuance to it in a y way making it horrendously easy to chat about vs games like 1, 3 and 4 all having debates that aren't as simple to categorize. The Master wants the extinction of the Human race and for Super Mutants to take it's place. Sounds evil except, he's not wanting to slaughter them in droves. He offers all a chance to join the unity and evolve, any who say no aren't made to join unless a vault dweller. Instead they are made sterile and get to live out the rest of their days under the protection of super mutants. Only those that offer violent resistance are put to death. It's an evil goal sure but being executed extremely humanly. Fallout 3 the enclave want to restrict water and use it to make people work for them. Evil sure but they have actual plans to rebuild, to govern, to provide structure and heal the nation. While all under their evil banner, it's still more than the BoS who just share water to be kind and offer none of that. 4 has loads to talk about from uniting as a region to rebuild but risk repeating history, live under BoS protection but without attempts to form something larger as they wouldn't need it, save an enslaved people but leave the region to fend for it's own future or to leave the surface to its ways as you advance underground and preserve a future for humanity. NV is just NCR is good because literally every ending they have has almost everyone happy as a clam, House also good but a bit less as he hurts more people than the NCR, Legion evil because most people suffer under him and God help you under Lanius and Yes Man is just a fanfic really being as horrible or great as you want.

[@jerrythemike3584]

@@hunterblue7816 Man...it seems so damn weird to see someone bashing New Vegas while praising the other games

[@AnonymousAnonposter]

Bugthesda fanboys coping hard ITT

[@alfalldoot6715]

​@@AnonymousAnonposterYou are the living embodiment of Reddit

[@Peter_Turbo4]

“Aight, just send raw supplies and your Firstborn son to serve in the Military and we’ll keep the Raiders in check” This is pretty much just the Legion’s Infrastructure

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

Majority Legion soldiers are tribals or sons of tribals. I don't recall any Legionary being the son of a normal Wasteland citizen.

[@Peter_Turbo4]

@@bloodmoonangel8925 doing otherwise is just depriving the Legion of manpower and useful skills

[@taxult]

@@Peter_Turbo4 its never states anywhere they do the same to non tribals

[@Basedlocation]

@@Peter_Turbo4 based legion

[@PKFireFawx]

California Delenda Est

[@nagger8216]

lmao Redditor

[@morsstrages6282]

Im of the opinion

[@PKFireFawx]

@@nagger8216 reddit is for ncr fans and people that think siding with the enclave is a microagression. Cope

[@nagger8216]

@@PKFireFawx lol Took awhile to churn out that gem of a retort, did your brain short circuit or something?

[@gaffgarion7049]

One thing legion haters don't seem to grasp in the people in legion territory didn't trade freedom for security, they traded uncertainty for security. You can't build a life if you are constantly looking over your shoulder, you can't make long term plans if it's likely they will be quickly smashed. Order isn't an antithesis to Freedom, it's a prerequisite because without order there is no freedom only chaos. Legion rule is objectively better than chaos, whether it's better than living under the NCR or house is based entirely on what you consider to be valuable in life. The legion partakes in many brutal acts, but never for their own sake, all the ugly things the legion does are toward this goal of order and growth. When you meet Vulpes, he doesn't deny that they committed an atrocity, a "crime" as some would call it. But he justifies it by showcasing the treacherous and selfish nature of Nipton. Despite being the NCRs foe he chastizes the people of the town for turning against their own for the sake of self enrichment. As well as how their selfishness allowed them to watch their community die for the slim chance that they would be spared. The legion is all big picture, there actions can only be called evil if you only look at the surface. They are a young state in momentum, can't make an omelette without breaking eggs and all that. The key difference between the atrocities the legion commits and those of other factions is the lack of hypocrisy, they know that much of what they do is abhorrent but they justify it with the goals that they've already seen work which vindicates their brutality. The NCR isn't any less brutal just more decentralized and hypocritical. And when they do take the high horse it generally results in just as much human suffering, just in more subtle and deniable ways that they absolve themselves of blame. Tldr: Legion based

[@stonemanofgardnerville1162]

Tldr ceaser legion is based off incomplete old ideas that will lead to an American wasteland with states closer to Europe after the fall the Roman empire and tbh lead to a better future but damn this is a big egg to crack on a very shitty stove for a omelet that might be spoiled....for the point of trade things for security is eventually that security will turn on you...yes chaos isn't good you can't get shit done but if the leadership is arbitrary which will come when Edward dies...in the end let them rise and fall but the main analog never changed war.....war is based

[@gaffgarion7049]

@@stonemanofgardnerville1162 which fallout society isn't based on incomplete old ideas? Thats the point of old world blues. No society is immune to abuse , corruption or misrule. The only choice is what you value and what you want to risk.

[@georgerockwell149]

Based indeed, thanks for the analysis!

[@stonemanofgardnerville1162]

@@gaffgarion7049 ceaser legion is based of the Roman empire's history from a prewar book that Edward found on the way to zion...do you honest to Joshua Graham believe that Edward found a pristine history book with no pages torn out or had a to be continued at the 0BC time cause the Roman empire goes for a minute including the Byzantium territory that didn't do much (lol) in the end it's evident that Edward (im using this cause ceaser is a title) has no clue what happened when Rome ran out of enemies..the traders and people suffered to warlords and random punitive military raids just to make sure the over bloated war mongering slave soldiers don't devolve into complex raider gangs...in the end it's fucked because yeah people trade but the state has no interest at all in it..they check yo shit drugs,drink, something we won't or don't like that day...your dead and any females you had raped then enslaved and if you had kids well guess what they do it all over again...the NCR is not much better but atleast they read n' shit on their spare time...yeah most do drugs but I mean its hell and you loved Into slightly less hell I'd still do some stuff for the day to day but the higher ups prosecut drug use and smuggling so ypu get hung but the entire body of commrodery you tried to build for the community isn't literally raped in front of them...in the end....people...people can change but not at the end of a barrel nor the end of old books

[@heribertgeilhubrgg8575]

True to Caesar

[@Tako258]

I've always sided with the NCR but now after watching this I'm going to do a Legion playthrough now.

[@whiterunguard1429]

Nice video, didn't knew about the civilian structure or heard of it, good to know people still loves this game and I don't know why there isn't a special or legendary edition... reminds me of a certain game...

[@BendakOGStarkiller]

Use this as a: Obsidian should do a remaster of Fallout New vegas and add everything that had to get cut: Button.

[@mcsmash4905]

good luck with the current social and political climate lol , the neckbeard from reddit would scream until obsidian buckled under their pressure

[@justsegal6578]

I'm so glad you make these Legion videos. There is so much misinformation and straight-up lies about the Legion on the internet, and it's nice to see this amazing faction get the justice it deserves.

[@xijinping4418]

There doesn't even need to be misinformation. The truth about the legion is just as fucked up and abhorrent as any "misinformation" someone could surmise about them. Just say you're a submissive masochist and leave it at that.

[@Ares99999]

An 'amazing' faction that enslaves, crucifies, and wipes out towns wholesale. You're right, what's not to like?

[@justsegal6578]

@@Ares99999🍆

[@ovenram]

another great video. as others have pointed out already, that ending line is wonderfully put.

[@KevinDurantBurnerAccount]

Fallout New Vegas has shown me there is no such thing as good nor evil. It shows shows how far humanity is willing to go for power. Shows the different shades of gray of reality. There is no right or wrong there is only the ability to choose.

[@WELSHGAMER99]

Slavery is pretty wrong tho

[@themcknox]

I feel like we only got to see an advancing Legion in NCR territory. I'd love an environment were you're in Legion territory, watching the NCR advance through. Legion civilians are very appreciative of Caesar and his Legion, Arizona was meant to be a hell Scape before he came along.

[@pendremacherald6758]

First time since I started watching that I saw a new upload. Legitimately made me go yeahboiiiiiiiiii!

[@marchindley9856]

Your point about the citizens of the Legion accepting enslavement because the frontier was so brutal doesn't make much sense. In early Fallout 1 Shady Sands was beset on all fronts by raiders but they managed to establish a somewhat comfortable society without resorting to facism, crucification and slavery.

[@AllenReyes-t7n]

AGREED

[@TrollCapAmerica]

How much "freedom" did they spread to the Mojave when they showed uo and said they were in charge now? Why does everyone act like just because the NCR part of the game was complete and you get some many potential quests they like you instantly that they arent still an invading army that only played nice because fighting everyone in the region and killing House to plant their flag would have left them open to the Legion? Thats even ignoring things like the mass corruption or sending thugs to attack a hero like Marcus so they had an excuse to kill everyone and take the town themselves

[@joelcastillo5828]

California had player characters solve literally every problem it ever had. If they hadn't come along, a society just as brutal as Caesar's Legion would rise to survive in such a harsh environment.

[@noriyakigumble3011]

I love how the whole Caravan argument with Caesar’s Legion he like the apocalyptic equivalent of “well at least the trains run on time” excuse people make for fascism

[@811brian]

Let’s not forget the elephant in the room when it comes to the Legion. I find it extremely difficult to justify the treatment of women as second class citizens, let alone slaves. If we’re talking about enslavement of raider gangs, then that’s not so bad, but still kinda shitty.

[@anon3631]

simp

[@maximilianopavon7704]

If the legion truly changes with each tribe that assimilates a tribe then, this could get fixed with a female courier and the defeat of the NCR. Im pretty sure they would take note if their savior was a woman, they would realise that they are missing lots of good soldiers. However this could end with a female leader of the legion, wich is the worst ending and possible outcome becuase that would basically create england 2.

[@dickonmanwoody7599]

There are free women as subjects. Slaves of the legion are men and women. Soilders and hard labors are men. Well domestic duties and child rearing are women's. Both genders have roles as slaves. It's not a second class citizenship it's the necessary division of labor amongst the slave class of the legion.

[@redline841]

Cry about it

[@xijinping4418]

@@maximilianopavon7704 Even if this would change somehow, that change is not guaranteed. Regardless, the other human rights atrocities committed by the legion likely wouldn't change.

[@christianweibrecht6555]

I believe the main thing that makes New Vegas factions compelling is that we can actually imagine them existing in the real world

[@xijinping4418]

That's what makes the legion particularly horrifying.

[@jaek__]

@@xijinping4418 I don't know, I have high hopes for the Legion if the Courier takes over, remove the slavery, disallow corruption through a little bit of iron fisting here and there, ensure rights are afforded to sovereign citizens, change the military to voluntary or professional, and control and tame the East. Oh and allow female rights too, those might be very important down the line. Overall, if you get past what Ceaser deems necessary to START a functional society, the end goal seems better than the NCR imo

[@MyNameIsOcean]

​@@jaek__lmfao you missed the point about the legion

[@jaek__]

@@MyNameIsOcean The point is not really fleshed out in any particular way, it's a parody of dictatorships, that's essentially it, should the Legion have had the chance to be given a more nuanced dynamic for the player to explore you likely would've seen a more cohesive arguments to be made for them, and not have to write headcanon. Unfortunately they are only semi-dimensional, and the overall outward appearance of them reflects that, since allowing them to exist as they are would lead to the inevitable dissolution of the nation.

[@MyNameIsOcean]

@hk433 missed the point again. Traders freely travel through legion territory. There will never be a jet problem the way ncr had one in fallout 2. As brutal as the Legion are to their enemies, their citizens still enjoy a decent quality of life Legion dictatorship is viable enough to provide a challenge to the NCR as it is. That's the point. A military dictatorship works. It doesn't need the courier to turn it into NCR 2.0. It's already challenging them.

[@drachir7146]

I do really wish all the cut Legion content stayed in, could you imagine striking up a deal with the Brotherhood and see Lanius in power armor

[@justinmitchell9870]

In Caesars legion you could die for someone else's actions let's not forget the deciamato or whatever where a full tenth of the squad is killed by the other nine tenths. It may be orderly but it's still savagery. Also I can't believe the legion wouldn't manipulate their own people in desperation. Also we see the bravado in Caesar as he pretends to be okay with his constant migraines you even hear some of his own soldiers mention the inconvenience it brings. Caesar may follow his rules normally but there's nothing to keep him in check.

[@sup1602]

I find it hilarious that Caesars cherry picks alot from the roman empire but forgets the largest thing that made their empire successful, full time professional paid troops; ones that are granted some for of pension or land at the end of their service. Having a army of disciplined troops that have something to look forward to at the end of their service makes for a better fighting army. All Caesars has is loyalty though fear, and that does not last long.

[@Zz-lp8yr]

@@sup1602 Thts what happen when you claim to understand Hegel in a few years

[@LocutusMoW]

Caesar has a sovereign, organic responsibility that holds him accountable - if he did whatever he wanted for pure personal gain he’d risk losing everything and someone like Lanius might even kill him. In the NCR, there is no accountability when your power is based on massive anonymous wealth like how NCR citizens complain the President is in the pocket of the Brahmin Barons and how interest groups are causing the Mojave campaign to be mismanaged. The President also has a term limit and can comfortably retire from his term with all the power and wealth he accumulated through shady deals. So in the end, it doesn’t really matter, he faces no accountability.

[@finnl6887]

​@@sup1602I think the biggest problem when it comes to people bashing the legion for not being Roman enough is that people forget the legion wasn't supposed to be the romans. At all. Caesar himself says they're not. He just modeled some of their military structure, legal language, and general aesthetics off of them because they were so foreign and so few people knew much about them, that he could basically mold it into whatever he amalgamation of ideas that he wanted and still give it a sense of being rooted in our past, because that makes it easier for someone to accept and understand than giving every citizen decades of education to catch them up to speed. He didn't care if the legion was like the romans or not, he just wanted them to seem "roman-like" so that people could easily digest the idea of a militaristic empire and beyond that, they'd do whatever the fuck he told them to, because he told them to. So, in many ways, criticizing the legion for not being like the Roman empire enough is like criticizing the US for not being like the Roman republic enough despite having a senate, assembly (house), and consuls (presidency). It's an inspiration, not a goal

[@skywardkillzone]

@@sup1602 Full time professional soldiers were not the norm in the Roman Republic, until the late Republic and the Early Imperial period

[@cinnamonflavord]

Also Caesar pays ultra fucking well. Caesars favor is so fucking good, NCR pay is so shit you might as well be doing it for free

[@xijinping4418]

Throwing out your morals for cash, what an amazing specimen. I'm sure you could find a good CEO job lined up for you somewhere.

[@modelnanpresident]

Great video! I wish the legion was fleshed out more... If fallout 5 takes place in the west, I would like to see at least a part of the map under legion rule, or some sort of relatively intact remnant of the legion.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

I've got my own hypothetical idea in which the game takes place in the Eastern fringes of a Legion push into Texas. With the fall in the West, a Legate in the East takes charge, and the Legion is faced with threats from the Lone Star Republic and an increasingly proactive Texas Brotherhood of Steel. In response, these Legionaires have adopted use of more technology and established dedicated units of auxiliaries who are allowed to use combat chems like psycho and med-x, but only in combat. Unknown to all, however, Lanius had gone South, and pressed the tribes beyond the Rio Grande into his thrall. He intends to march North at the head of his barbarian army and claim the Legion for his own once again. The factions of Texas will be forced to either band together or each stand alone against Lanius.

[@modelnanpresident]

@@DISTurbedwaffle918 gotta say, this sounds really damn cool

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

@@modelnanpresident Climax of the game is Lanius laying siege to the Alamo. Iconic music is "Ballad of the Alamo" by Marty Robins

[@xijinping4418]

More fascists to shoot would be great, so I agree.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

@@xijinping4418 Anti-Fa aren't allowed to own guns thanks to the politicians they support.

[@basedvorenus7497]

Ave, true to Caesar!

[@Kerruo]

Played Legion through my first playthrough and not a single faction felt right afterwards. Ave, true to Caesar.

[@ghostdigit1555]

legion chads reign supreme

[@MarquisLeary34]

Till the guys with the power armor and energy weapons show up.

[@ghostdigit1555]

@@MarquisLeary34 it's a good thing they have plenty of anti-mats laying around after hoover dam, courtesy of the ncr

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@ghostdigit1555 And most of the legion not knowing what to do with them while the BoS or the Boomers know quite well what to do with Fat Mans and gatling lasers.

[@ghostdigit1555]

@@MarquisLeary34 really reaching there, man

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@ghostdigit1555 Not really. Or do the Legion have some racks of Fat Mans, full auto grenade launchers, or miniguns I'm not aware of?

[@Toxicpunk01]

the Legion is still a better choice than the NCR to me

[@DishonoredGOD]

Nice. Makes me want to do another Legion playthrough

[@rulingmoss5599]

Reddit

[@AidenRKrone]

Does the Legion have a codified socioeconomic system? For example, does it have a planned economy or a market economy, a centralized economy or a decentralized economy? It doesn't seem like the Legion directly involves itself in the economic dealings of its subjects, other than occasionally asking for tributes. I imagine the Legion territory's economic system is something like syndicalistic distributism.

[@geth7112]

They do make their own currency

[@nickghoul1655]

Imagine fascist italy but as a military force reigning over an agrarian economic sector, once caesar takes the strip they basically become the ncr minus the democracy and societal flaws

[@oatmeak]

5:39 I don't believe that in the slightest to where it seems like a plot hole if that's the case in practice. The Legion winds-up their soldiers to be incredibly aggressive and to respect position more than anything. The problem with having punishment for everything be death, you find, is that it doesn't actually make people not do those things. It just makes it so if they do commit a crime like that, they'll go to any length to hide it because it's either that, where you possibly live, or being humiliated and murdered in a show of force. You get diminishing returns in terms of leverage when your baseline for the person you're punishing starts with them being dead regardless. With how much control the Legion has over their population, how rural a lot the wasteland is, how inconsistent long-distance communication is, and how subjects have no guaranteed rights, if you're a Legion officer you're in the perfect position to do something like that especially if you've already *done* a crime.

[@LocutusMoW]

Libtard individualist harm-reduction Reddit argument. 🥱

[@steelcladCompliant]

Perhaps a stronger deterrent is them being all brainwashed into being incorruptible servants of the Legion. It should be pretty unusual to find a legionary doing something to his own benefit and the detriment of the Legion. Think of the most devout religious person you can imagine, doing something they consider to be a unforgivable sin. Its not just about the punishment if they get caught, their conscience would be torturing them the whole time

[@brandonkirk5236]

Well, this makes legion seem way less evil than in the game. Kinda want to start a new game and go legion for the first time now.

[@ourflameisrising9785]

The legion path is kinda undercooked due to the massive time crunch Obsideon had to put up with, but it’s still very much worth it

[@FemboyPrince]

@@xijinping4418 Dictatorships are not inherently evil, Democratic lies have blinded you.

[@spiffygonzales5160]

You have to actually seek out most of the legion quests. Caesar gives you like... 6 maybe. The rest are just so around the Mojave

[@mcsmash4905]

i wouldnt call the legion evil i would just call them practical and pragmatic

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@mcsmash4905 Wearing football gear rather than armor and crucifying elite generals simply because they fail one time is practical and pragmatic?

[@James-ne3lc]

NCR doesn't give you much respect or place to climb up in their society meanwhile Caesar grooms you to be his successor and even mints a gold coin in your honor. Talk about respect.

[@MarquisLeary34]

If you're his successor, how come you still get threatened with rape if you play a female courier?

[@sarahmellinger3335]

@@MarquisLeary34 threats are how legion keeps order

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@sarahmellinger3335 So how does threatening to rape someone who gets invited BY CEASAR HIMSELF keep order? Something tells me that raping someone who has The Mark would result in that someone getting a machete to the skull, but somehow that doesn't stop them from trying...

[@prestigeworldwide7914]

The legion is by far the most interesting faction in Fallout. Not just bland bad guys, they operate under a widely followed and enforced code. NCR is boring good guys with no real theme.

[@caesarslegion9872]

On your next video u should talk about the war between Caesar's Legion and the Nevada Desert Rangers

[@1MykHyn]

"it's important to know subjects are not slaves" (all while woman forcefully carries a boulder on her back up a steep hill for majority of the day)

[@mzov_1724]

Interesting to note that the legion was in its prime in FNV, but what would happen if the empire itself became too big? It'd be like the roman empire's own story.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

The problem with the Roman empire was they never established proper rules for succession. It lead to constant civil wars and strife. Caesar has proper rules for succession, can't remember which character said it, but apparently the next 10 people in line for the leadership of the Legion have already been set up.

[@thatguyriverside]

​@@GeraltofRivia22Boone says it, while other characters who know a lot more about the Legion (including House and Graham) say that with Eddie dying the Legion collapsing is bound to happen

[@poymannyng1845]

​@@thatguyriverside Lol you made me think of the implications of picking the powder gangers' leader as a new caesar, just like that sheriff dude for primm

[@pervertteacher8867]

It’s not just that but Rome also faces sackings from Germanic Tribes and Attila’s raids certainly did not help

[@georgejackson4426]

Here's what most people who hate The Legion miss when they talk to Raul. Raul talks about living in Arizona but notice that he never said The Legion enslaved or tried to kill him. If The Legion was so bad why didn't they exterminate Raul or Tabitha?

[@josephmarch7142]

I enjoyed the video, as I was always curious as to how the legion 'ruled' over their specific territories.

[@armalite5.56]

I believe that going with the legion is the best choice purely on a few reason #1: Its already a developed nation with its own laws and form of government #2: Caesar prepares the courier to take over the legion when he dies #3: since its already a devoloped nation and you, the player, are being proped up by Caesar to be the next leader, you can basically say what you want the legion to do after caesars passing and itd be law, factually speaking you can turn them more into the great Roman Empire by allowing the integration of technology while also advancing it, disbanding slavery or at least female slaves etc

[@DitlevPedersen]

the legion should have a system in place to allow slaves to work themselves into a higher position after a certain time, where they are then considered a "civillian" like the ones who aren't already slaves be a loyalist and you reap the benefits this would make the legion seem even more like a logical choice for people in the wasteland

[@Dark_Moon_Grass]

Caesar’s legion reminds me of United Cities from Kenshi. UC is the most prosperous faction in the game but if you start attacking the slave farms and mines their economy essentially collapses, and their soldiers become malnourished.

[@therednapoleon8695]

Ave true to Caesar!

[@MarquisLeary34]

Just call me the Ides of March, LARPer. Fall Caesar.

[@Basedlocation]

@@MarquisLeary34 stay mad profligate you belong on a cross

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@Basedlocation Smell that C4, LARPer? Neither did Graham....

[@Basedlocation]

@@MarquisLeary34 You’ll just another dissolute that will fall to legion blades

[@MarquisLeary34]

@@Basedlocation This is Vegas. A hundred twits with guns and clips have tried their luck and lost the bet. The House Always Wins, tribal.

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

"The East had no such messiah." Hear me out. A prequel to New Vegas where you play as a young Edward Sallow and experience the founding of the Legion firsthand would be pretty cool if handled well.

[@Ray-yv7kn]

Nah it'd be cancelled to shit. Also how's the food?

[@GreasusGoldtooth]

@@Ray-yv7kn IT'S NOT BAD SLIM.

[@gojira7824]

Would the Legion employ mercenaries from the towns they control? If Arizona was as bad as Raul said then there had to at least be some down right hardened guys willing to guard caravans and protect towns. I don't think the Legion want to let that talent go to waste but now that they're subjects, they can't really conscript them since they don't extort their civvies. So it wouldn't be that big of a leap in logic to assume that they would hire them for specific purposes.

[@malasian]

It's possible. The courier themselves can also be considered employed mercenary. A merc who's so capable that Caesar himself recognized the value of their contributions and minted their face on a coin because of how badass they are.

[@670HP-Package-NOW]

Likely turned into Frumentari

[@kushlord9042]

Proud to be an Arizonan True to Caesar!

[@Starwarsfan2020]

FNVs lore and story blows every other fallout out of the water no doubt about it

[@thomas_asunto]

That's how Tributary system was implemented under Caesar's territory. Those who are tribals were assimilated, others like valuable trading settlements were spared but went under as tributes to prevent the fate.

[@Linkman95]

really interested in the gender ratio of people who think caesar's legion is cool

[@alpacalover0]

How many women even play NV anyways? You'll probably find a gender disparity regardless of factions.

[@carlgustafemilmannerheim5661]

@@alpacalover0 most women are masochists anyway so you'd probably find more women supporting the Legion over a guy like House xD

[@MistaOppritunity]

An important distinction to make is that no one here thinks they're a fantastic option. Some people here just think that all the options suck and the legion sucks the least. and there is honestly an argument to be made about that. If we looked at it from the lenses of a wastelander just trying to survive day by day, the legion has a lot of things that would make it appealing, even as a woman... so long as you didn't get enslaved. If you were a regular civilian that was lorded over, you'd be fine.

[@Linkman95]

@@carlgustafemilmannerheim5661 hey look its an example of why i think 70% of legion fans are cringe incels who think it'd be cool to have women as property

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

They're not a good option, they're the necessary option

[@how_to_be_a_Old_legionary44]

0:54 i think had a better map if you use hoi4 owb late game legion(without the ncr.) that seems me accurte the size of the legion.

[@Снайпер_Хренов]

This really does flesh out the Legion above the status of "Generic bad guys"

[@BIacklce]

The problem with only being exposed to the militant vanguard of an invading aggressively expanding nation is you only see their aggressive militant side of things. truely the "I have two sides: the sweetest boy you will ever meet and a twisted freakin' psychopath"

[@Lrayp_47642]

Well now that I've seen this video I side with ceasers legion all the way

[@Disciple_JK]

You may want to look into the Legion and their actions a bit more before coming to conclusions.

[@sirgentlebread7302]

@@Disciple_JK You might as well, it's pretty obvious you don't do legion runs

[@Lrayp_47642]

@@Disciple_JK ah no I've played the game already and I mostly just kill the legionaries but I can honestly say in that kind of world I'd pick security over anything I don't mind the crucifixions or killings if I'm safe

[@flasher6597]

@@sirgentlebread7302 You're pretty quick to jump to conclusions buddy

[@sirgentlebread7302]

@@flasher6597 I know, I'm pretty quuck at being right as well

[@thetrainhopper8992]

I do take issue with the NCR side of the map. It’s not mentioned what happen to San Francisco and given how mountainous the Coastal Range is, the Shi could have easily kept the coastal areas independent. But I don’t really expect people who don’t live in Northern California to know that.

[@mikehunt2761]

My first playthrough of new Vegas I played the game how I myself would make decisions in this world. I sided with house...until Caesar ordered me to kill House. I reached a point when playing the game and taking in the story. Where I felt it would be stupid to destroy the legion. In a post apocalyptic world, the legion makes sense. I completely disagree with the idea of slavery. I believe people should be allowed to gamble and use Chems recreationally or for healthcare. But this isn't our civilized world. This is a post apocalyptic world. For the safety and future prospering of humanity. I believe personally that the legion is the best hope for mankind. Just goes to show the masterful writing for New Vegas.

[@MikeHunt-zy3cn]

That's the conclusion I reached as well. While deplorable in areas, realistically, they will likely see the most success at reconstructing some semblance of society.

[@xijinping4418]

The mental gymnastics you went through to get to that conclusion are nothing less than amazing.

[@octodaddy877]

The NCR has done well enough at rebuilding society without the need for mass slavery and treatment of women as second-class citizens. Sure, they may have an inefficient and corrupt bureaucracy, but it's not like they've built some irredeemable hell-scape society. The entire reason the Khans, Vipers and Jackals are in the Mojave is because the NCR pushed them out of their lands. Hell, the NCR ending slide for Primm says that they get the benefit of more protection. It seems that the Mojave is the only really unsafe place for traders, but that's because A) it's an untamed frontier and the NCR is mismanaged there and B) the Legion actively sabotages their efforts and assists the Fiends in combating the NCR. You don't need slavery, sexism, and savagery for humanity to survive.

[@JamesDeanStudiesLanguage]

If the continuation of society means enslaving innocent, non-combatant women and children, maybe your society shouldn’t continue. The legion kidnapping Boons wife was all I needed to see to define them as pure evil, no matter what justification they had for doing it.

[@Fernybun]

​@@xijinping4418it doesn't takes a genius to see the fiends, the crimes of the three families and the excesses of Reno and the Den as the wonderful results of drug abuse and gambling allowed by an uncaring government just wanting a cut out of such vices, neither one needs a sharp eye to see the obvious demographic collapse going around in the USA after the great war and the subsequent apocalypse. If only there was a group that gives the answer to those two issues plaguing the wasteland. As for the supposed slavery of the Legion, I prefer the more Californian term "penal labor", I am sure you wouldn't find it wrong for raiders and criminals to do such kind of labor as it is the same procedure done in the republic, isn't that right?

[@SympatheticStrawman]

I really do hope, if the Fallout show gets another season, thst the Legion still exists in that continuity. I jusy think theyre so much more interesting than the NCR as a faction, and much more fitting for a ruthless nuclear wasteland

[@inquisitorgarza312]

In truth Caesar’s biggest mistake was making the Legion to militarized for its own good, as Rome while a military juggernaut that could crush any foe on the battlefield, they were also a massive trading economy that dominated the entirety of Europe, Middle East, and Africa combined. While the Wasteland is hostile compared to Ancient Rome that didn’t excuse Caesar lack of a attempt to modernize the Legion into a different sort of economy, and while traders are allowed safe passage into the Legion territory that does mean much when the Legion itself cannot produce its own resources without the aid of outsiders.

[@Future-Corpse]

While that may be true you do realize that fallout doesnt have a poop mechanic? Therefore caesar has no need for trade because what is he trading for?

[@James-ne3lc]

What do you mean? The Legion isn't entirely militarized they have normal cities in Colorado and New Mexico you just only ever see their armies in the Mojave. They have a great economy with their use of gold and silver coins compared to the NCRs fiat currency which is destined to fail. They have a huge slave trading market and produce their own medicines.

[@Future-Corpse]

@@James-ne3lc what do YOU mean?? The legion has no need for trade without a poop mechanic. Again ill reiterate: what does caesar have to trade if there is no dookie in fallout? Unless you are implying the legion is stinky enough to hold up a septic economy without any substance? That sounds like the real fiat currency...

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

The faster his military empire expands, the more territory he has to cultivate trading

[@Yesmannotyesman]

Hope for a second spinoff with legion in it

[@Moonraider07]

Ave, True to Ceasar

[@Lazy_Godzilla]

old age is realizing the Minutemen are a worse reskinned Legion with great PR. Sure, you get protection against Raiders and monster's, but if you don't join when asked, the Minutemen drop all support for you, and may or may not help when you get attacked

[@AtPlume]

*DEVELOPER 1:* Hey, let's make a blatantly fascist and evil faction for our game. *DEVELOPER 2:* Yeah! One that is so evil that the first interaction our players are likely to have, is a town filled with burning bodies, crucified people, and a random guy who survived by winning a lottery, who will tell you that those who survived were turned into slaves. *DEVELOPER 1:* Exactly. Let's make them undeniably bad. Like "they turn most women into sex slaves, crucify random people and kill without mercy, turn half the population into slaves to their forming empire" bad. *DEVELOPER 2:* We should do that, you're right. - THE GAME RELEASES - *GAMERS:* Wow, they're so cool.. 🥺👉👈 So much shade of grey, there is no right or wrong, no good and evil, wow.. 🥵

[@TimesFM4532]

You can imagin if Caesar wins and the courier nukes the NCR in the divide. Ceaser dies and like his ancient counterpart surprise everyone appoints the courier his successor and you then reform the legion like Augustus into the true glory of Romes empire

[@zachariahhoots1735]

If we got to see a peaceful well cared for legion population, then I don't really think it would have been a difficult choice.

[@AutekMor]

Really good piece, thanks very much!

[@giga7213]

I always thought that the legion is far more interesting then the ncr, but it’s a shame that such great faction probably wouldn’t be able to hold itself together for long because of legions reliance on Caesar, like Marcus said in jacobstown

[@steelcladCompliant]

Marcus isnt omniscient, and neither Caesar nor his advisors are idiots. There is obviously a plan in place for whenever he bites the dust. We see in game that Lanius takes command until the battle, but after that something else could happen. If not, then I at least expect Vulpes to stab him in the back and install someone who can actually serve as a civilian administrator

[@Agesilaus.88]

I'd rather live under the Legion than the NCR. The NCR is Weimerica 2.0 and we all know how that's going.

[@johnnybgoode8104]

The Legion is pro-slavery. That’s enough for me to dislike the legion in any given playthrough

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

(laughs in Morrowind, not even necessarily the game, but the overall culture in TES)

[@somefuckinchump]

completely fair

[@maxpain2037]

NCR also enslaves people, what do you think the powder gangers are?

[@Fernybun]

Oh please, the correct term is pro penal-labor, be more educated.

[@rkjjo]

Sounds a lot like a modern day china. You have a much smaller chance of being a vicitm of street crime in Shanghai or Beijing than you do in Chicago or New York. The greatest threat in China is the government itself as their punishments for most offenses are very harsh (boarderline cruel) and due process isnt even really a thing.

[@taka2721]

Yeah sure Ceasar in Fort can maintain discipline of his troops so that they don't take the advantage of people in Colorado. I could buy that with Minuteman but they control much smaller territory and they are locals as opposed to literall outsiders of legionaries. It really seems not feesable to me that people with complete control of life and death would never take advantage of it

[@bloodmoonangel8925]

Legionaries are disciplined from childhood what they should and shouldn't do. They have surprisingly high discipline.