The Man Who Escaped The Smiley Face Killers

[@TheLoreLodge]

Hey everyone, editing Aidan here - somehow during editing I didn’t notice cutting out a transitional sentence at 29:20 shifting focus to Riley messaging his mom about his drink that night. Sorry for the confusion and inconvenience, I’ll do better in the future. I hope y’all enjoy the video otherwise, and we appreciate your continued support.

[@godwarrior3403]

We have stopped supporting you as a result.

[@maxwell8758]

@@godwarrior3403😂

[@adamwest8256]

Dude, you need to do a collaboration with Donut Operator on Lacrosse Wisconsin! There is definitely something wrong with that town! He has done a lot of videos on lacrosse. Just look up Donut Operator, suspect turns into T-Rex. It's a whole series.

[@aidanthornbury]

@@godwarrior3403 I’m in tears

[@Graycy808]

You do great! I've been watching for a few weeks now and I'm really enjoying your content.

[@N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S.]

Imagine being one of the Smiley Face Killers and watching Aidan just randomly break down your modus operandi on the Internet.

[@TheLoreLodge]

There’s another universe where I’m just Spencer Reid IRL

[@MeretSeger]

@@TheLoreLodge SPENCER ROCKS!

[@JacksWorldYT]

@@TheLoreLodgeHE BETTER BE ON CM EVO S2!!!

[@tomdong7983]

: )

[@Ak907Queen]

​@tomdong7983 do you know the smiley face killer 🤔

[@KimberZK]

I live in Viroqua. One morning in the late 90's, while heading to work, I was listening to a local radio station where the hosts were discussing the recent drownings in the area. A guy called in saying he was out drinking the weekend before and was walking alone in Riverside Park after bar time. A man dressed like a police officer on foot called to him saying, "Hey, come here. I want to ask you something." This guy was so freaked out because he had a feeling the officer wasn't legitimate and noped the heck out of there. Listening to this gave me chills. So sketchy.

[@Andrew-zr1jt]

Wow very scary

[@lawliet6910]

O_O

[@derp195]

This is why impersonating the police is treated so harshly. They like to talk about how dangerous it is for the impersonator, but really it comes down to the fear that people won't believe the real ones are legit.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

@@derp195 It's not like there aren't impersonators getting around doing who-knows-what. I've encountered them. Two of them rolled up on me and some friends out late at night, in an unmarked car, but also in uniforms that weren't quite right. As in there were one or two small details missing. They got out and stopped us, telling us we were "being too noisy". We were just walking down the street having a normal conversation, and there was no one else around (so, no witnesses). They then tried to split us up to "question us", telling two of us to go with one of them and one to go with the other. When I noticed their belts had no holsters I just said to them "You're not cops. What are you? Security?". They protested, but then just told us to keep it down and got in their unmarked car and left. Uniforms don't drive around in unmarked cars where I am, only detectives do. I don't know what they were planning, but if they don't seem right, don't trust them. If someone's impersonating a cop it's probably not the only crime they are doing.

[@kingkonut]

o_0

[@caitlin5508rules]

Imagine waking up in a river barely conscious. Sounds terrifying. Poor guy was so scared he went straight to the hospital after.

[@AustinHebrew]

And in the January freezing water

[@jenniferpetty5238]

Learning more about this phenomenon makes me wonder about my husband’s friend where a similar thing happened. Alan Lin, age 22 had similar circumstances. A couple of weeks before graduation he went to a bar in Newport Beach and never made it home. He was missing for a week and a half before his body was discovered in water. He attended UC Riverside and studied Mechanical Engineering. My husband said he was a very smart, friendly and charming guy and they had done a lot of projects together.

[@thatguy5779]

As a current UCR student this comment is a bewildering comment to read

[@Enoo-Wynn]

I hope Aiden sees your comment and investigates.

[@GervinMerida]

Also a UCR student not only crazy to hear but I’m sorry about his loss

[@jenniferpetty5238]

Yeah, it was in 2011. I remember when it happened and my husband coming home telling me his friend Alan was missing. It made the news when his body was found. At the time we were young parents of a 2 year old and lived in family housing on the campus. It was sad. They said it was an accident and he had a high blood alcohol level. I think his sister accepted his degree at the graduation ceremony.

[@derp195]

​@@jenniferpetty5238 The pressure to sweep this kind of thing under the rug is insane. Any university would do whatever they could to not get a reputation for having a campus where students get kidnapped and murdered.

[@theresamorley14]

I was drugged once and it's the only time that I ever experienced complete blanks in my memory. It's definitely not the same as intoxication and I completely lost use of my arms and legs. It's awful and puts the body into shock and you can't even think

[@Enoo-Wynn]

That sounds terrifying and traumatic. I hope you're ok.

[@snarklar]

Yeah. I was at a concert and my girlfriend was sketched out that some guy might have put something in her drink and my idiot self thought, right in front of me? Idk. So I swapped with her and when were going to leave it hit me so hard. I only drank like that small drink and a beer or two within a few hours which wouldn't do much. It was really bad yeah. Not the same thing

[@kimberlyfrey8740]

Same and i remember how “off” i felt the next few days.

[@dimesonhiseyes9134]

See I've always found the whole memory lost thing when drinking as really strange. I've had tons to drink before. If I were being honest probably get dangerous level of intoxication. But I've never blacked out to where I couldn't remember anything. Which is not to say that I don't pass out and go to sleep I've done that many times but I remember going to sleep waking up and more or less everything that happened before and after. Details might be a little hazy at times but I've always had a decent recall the previous evenings festivities.

[@dimesonhiseyes9134]

@@Nylak-Otter alcohol is a strange drug. I usually have a fairly low tolerance one or 2 drinks I start getting pretty sleepy. At a party or when out with friends is different, you always seem to have more energy. But a couple beers by my self and I'm out. And the effects can last a long time for me. I no longer feel any of the good effects of alcohol but I might feel really sleepy for hours.

[@MollyTilford-Burns]

The dosage being lower than you'd expected could be due to him not finishing the drink. Especially as he noted that it tasted weird. Edit: I also wonder if the second guy may have also tried to drink. In a "hey bro this taste weird"

[@vitalucas9452]

Great point.

[@hayzkid12]

I was just thinking this. What if Cullen gave the drugged drunk/a drugged drink to his friend, hence the lower dose and why they both suffered from memory loss.

[@MollyTilford-Burns]

@hayzkid12 it seems very plausible. I know I've took sips from friends drinks to try it without a second thought. Maybe I'll rethink this practice in the future.

[@abigailbaldwin4224]

Also, if one started to feel a little over intoxicated, they may have passed the drink off to their friend to finish.

[@teresalynnox03]

Here from Pittsburgh I’d like to say yes there is definitely some thing very suspicious and relatively relatable with the deaths of the young men that have gone missing around here. Many of us do not believe it is just accidental drownings. Many of us speculate and even predict that they will eventually be found in the river whenever we hear of a missing college age male that disappeared after a night out with their friends. The police seem to be avoiding/ignoring these deaths. They most certainly need to be re-opened and re-investigated. I’m happy to hear your channel speaking about it even if it isn’t necessarily the “smiley face killer” there is something seriously going on here that truly needs more attention and investigated more deeply.

[@marciaoh7056]

These unusual style deaths happen in Milwaukee also. The cops don't seem to care to launch a deep investigation. A theory is the killer is a cop. Many of these guys are found far away from the place they went to and must have been driven. Now, who is going to jump into a strangers car and go off with them???? It would be an authority figure most likely. A cop might have hassled them and ordered them into the car and drove off with them. Or it could be someone faking being a cop to lure victims. Another theory is that it's someone respected who is somewhat of an authority figure like a college professor or coach who the victim is familiar with and would get into a car with, especially if the victim had been drugged and not clear headed. Milwaukee is not a college town, yet most of these victims are students and a percentage of these were athletes. Also the victims are all good looking, fit and healthy young men. Most of them are blonds too and not one of them is black. Police write these mysterious deaths off as drunk kids falling into the Milwaukee River yet no fat, ugly guys ever fall in??? Just popular handsome guys? And no women are experiencing getting drunk and walking down to the river and falling in? Not one woman. And one would think women would be more likely to be targeted. Someone is targeting these men. The string of these men found drown after going out alone suddenly stopped and no longer are happening which leads me to believe the killer moved on to another city where it's happening there now.

[@danielcantiego9374]

​@@marciaoh7056Bro....you're a good detective

[@celestialceleste369]

I still want to know what happened to the college man pushed through the window or the college woman found in the trash chute. Pittsburgh is wild. I left a couple years ago and was only there for just a few.

[@ChantillyLane22]

@@marciaoh7056 I get that everybody's always over eager to jump on the "cop's did it' train nowadays ......but all the cops in all the cities would have to be in on it for your theory to be true. Don't think so.

[@marciaoh7056]

​@@ChantillyLane22 There is actually a thing such as cop gangs in cities. In fact years ago in Milwaukee there came to light cops gang raping men roadside. Chicago had what were known as black warehouses where men were taken and tortured. People who grew up in small little rural towns can't comprehend these things and I understand that.

[@bovinityleak2066]

“Unfortunately there arent many personal details of cullen floating around out there.” Interesting wording!

[@LuLeMen]

I also want to mention that I graduated University of Minnesota, and around the time of my attendance and graduation, 2 or 3 times drunk guys just drowned in the Mississippi, no further explanation. Also, around the same time, women were being snatched up by a fake cop and raped. Literally right on campus. Never found the dude.

[@lah-tee5412]

This gives me the chills. Did you see the other comment regarding a fake cop??

[@RedLeo-pf9yo]

Probably a real cop. 👮🏼

[@LuLeMen]

@@lah-tee5412 no

[@Alexandra_Wolf]

I thought they did find the Mississippi killer

[@shidditiddis]

@@lah-tee5412wouldn’t make a ton of sense for that comment and this one to be related, as they were talking about a man being approached and this comment is talking about women being approached. To my recollection, serial killers typically stick to one gender, although the team effort angle is one I’ve always believed for all the drowning cases in the country. I find it highly unlikely there isn’t some kind of network given the similarities and timeframes.

[@therealwildfolk]

“In the drunkest state in the union” as a Wisconsinite I can attest that .1 is simply a Tuesday. Also!!! Check out Nick Wilcox drowning here in Milwaukee which some think are related

[@loganstroganoff1284]

If yall drink more than Louisiana I'd be seriously impressed, and concerned lol

[@therealwildfolk]

@@loganstroganoff1284 look up drunkest towns in USA my friend 😂

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

@@loganstroganoff1284they like their 5% basic beer a LOT

[@derp195]

​@@loganstroganoff1284 Wisconsin has the highest number of bars per capita than any other state. I think they've got you beat lol

[@gunsandink]

*Florida enters the comments. Ya'll can't hang with Fl.

[@snackbarqueen]

You guys are so sweet to apologize for misinterpreting the beginning footage of the Riley Strain video…I of course noticed it right away that what you were saying didn’t match what was happening in the footage but I just laughed….I love that you sincerely apologized for it, you both taking these cases seriously, respecting the victims and their families and your genuine willingness to want to help people is what keeps me coming back to The Lore Lodge ❤ keep up the amazing work you guys !!!!!

[@everlastinglife5978]

Can you explain more I would like to hear about that

[@thehairywoodsman5644]

the pic of Gannon and Duarte reminds me of Penn and Teller.....

[@MrKush815]

I had to take a second look cause my DuRdUr ass thought it was 🤣🤦‍♂️🤣🤦‍♂️

[@damiencouturee6240]

Holy crap you weren't kidding lmao

[@TheUncleRuckus]

NGL I initially thought that's who it was when I saw the picture. 😂

[@Oi1Suzy]

I double check every time. I know one day he's going to put the Penn and Teller photo in, I just know it...

[@Kyarareads]

this video dropped when i just came back from the club and saw a dude being beaten into a pulp for no reason when police showed up they asked if anybody could identify the guys but all we knew was they were white so i said why dont you look at the camera footage and an officer gave me some sass and really gave me the feeling he wasnt interested in the footage for context this happend where at least 20 cameras from different bars were facing the encounter the officer told me he didnt know if they were angled right ... anyway this video felt haunting after that i hope everyones staying safe thanks for the work Mattis

[@JE4-1]

It baffles me that KZbin would want to silence true crime KZbinrs when they're literally getting people’s stories out there and maybe even helping in unsolved cases??? I mainly use KZbin to watch my favorite true crime stories (Bailey Sarian, Stephanie Harlowe, Kendall Rae, Eleanor Neale, Boze, Criminally Listed. That Chapter, The Casual Criminalist, …) so if they get silenced, I'm dipping Can’t believe they put Kimbyrleigha into KZbin jail. These videos do more good than they do harm. IMO

[@anneloving8405]

Too scared that corruption will be uncovered.

[@highbread817]

​@@anneloving8405everyone loves a good conspiracy, but the roots of the rampant KZbin censorship has more to do with the adpocalypse when sponsors pulled out after learning about Elsagate and violent content.

[@virginiaelizabeth4577]

unfortunate but not surprising, unfortunately.

[@trishbeck]

With a name like that she needa be in yt jail

[@JimMilton-ej6zi]

It's because youtube doesn't care about people, google removed their "don't be evil" line from their rules, they only care about what's profitable to them, and what isn't profitable to them is a video that could make advertisers mad. Remember, youtube is the same company that willingly allows channels like cocomelon to exist, cocomelon is psychologically damaging to kids but youtube will happily recommend it to you because it's addictive to kids and exploitive on a scientific level.

[@rrg991981]

I think it’s fair to question this, as someone who is a native Sconnie we can definitely drink, and hold our liquor, 47 of the 50 hardest drinking counties in the US are in Wisconsin. I think it is reasonable to think there is more to this than just death by misadventure. Every major (and most minor) towns/cities in this state are on a body of water. And almost every bigger city/town here is a college town too, why would it only happen in La Crosse? Why wouldn’t it be more randomly distributed?

[@FairLadySpiny]

It doesn’t only happen in LaCrosse. That’s the thing. A lot of misadventure deaths just go widely unreported. I live in the Midwest and in my college town only a year ago, a kid died after drinking too much and falling into a cold pond. My best friend fell into a frozen pond after a long night out in highschool as well, but she was lucky that she knew the area well and was able to get out quickly. I honestly hate these smiley case killer theories because there is so little evidence to back them up, and I think it takes away from the true tragedy of these cases. Youths should be genuinely educated on the dangers of misadventure while drinking, instead of holding to this spooky ghost story about fictional serial killers.

[@rrg991981]

@@FairLadySpiny true, lots of ways to get hurt in the Midwest, add alcohol to the mix, I was more referring to the similarities, and the fact that all these people disappeared from the same block

[@FairLadySpiny]

@@rrg991981 aha well take what I say with a grain of salt BUT I am a college aged raised Minnesotan, and La Crosse is definitely known for being more of a “party town” than other college towns. Fr, a few years ago when I told my parents that I wanted to apply for Madison or La Cross, they kind of just rolled their eyes bc they knew I’d be getting up to trouble haha. I know some people who have been very successful at those schools and stayed on track, but other ppl are sort of encouraged into poor behavior for shits and giggles.

[@toddaulner5393]

​@@FairLadySpinythere are cases that make me believe they are held for awhile and put in the water, not all of it is stumbling into the water and drowning.

[@AfterSchoolSpecialTCG]

The river walk is patrolled at night by student volunteers from the campus and there is absolutely no reason to go that direction even if you're absolutely wrecked! It's a decent walk from the nearest "bar"

[@magnusgreel275]

Hey do you know the area? I'm wondering whether something about the layout of the land and buildings "funnel" drunk people towards the water. Far fetched theory, of course, but remember that very drunk people who are still ambulatory are pretty much zombies.

[@AfterSchoolSpecialTCG]

@@magnusgreel275I’ve lived in the area on and off my whole life, graduated from UW-La Crosse and live in the area now. It’s quite the opposite, the flow of drinking and even bar hopping, after parties etc would take you away from the river. There is nothing that would draw you that way. The island on the other side of the river is mostly a county park quite literally no draw in that direction at all.

[@magnusgreel275]

@@AfterSchoolSpecialTCG hmm not so much that kind of draw. I mean more like, you're a young man whose had a heavy night out, and you're obliterated. You've reached the point that you want to go home, or at least away from the drinking, so you just head out of the bar you're in. You're at that stage of drunk that everything is blurry and the lights are horribly bright and you're stumbling on your feet. In that state, you could be funneled a certain way by the layout of the streets, the buildings, even a gradient. Where would you likely head? Can you end up heading towards the water in that state, even if it's a fair way away in the opposite direction?

[@AfterSchoolSpecialTCG]

@@magnusgreel275 being completely honest, I’m a retired soldier and a college graduate from Wisconsin, I’m the definition of black out drunk. The geography and general layout would still lead you vac into the housing district, there are very few lights even on the streets heading down towards the water. Me and my wife were down there for our anniversary recently and it’s foreboding even when you’re sober because it’s so poorly lit. The general drinking crowd itself would pull you back towards one of the three colleges all heading away from the water.

[@lorettasearcy1471]

I've heard people say that this group of killers only targets young gay college guys.

[@BigMac8008]

Never in my life did I think a city I’m so familiar with would be a topic on so many major channels.

[@turtleanton6539]

Indeed

[@toecutter303]

Three years ago in Nashville, Two of my co workers went downtown and some very strange things happened. They blacked out after going to a bar and ended up in two different places. They felt drugged and had no memory of what happened. Hit me up if you want more info.

[@tristamthefriendlyknight8494]

Be careful brother, you don’t know who is out there seeking info, and if there working for the people who are doing this.

[@atmywhitson]

It's a huge ring of ppl doing this for $$. They have girls mostly black women who drug them then rob them if they give you too much then 🤷‍♀️ oops in the water yóu go or they just leave you. Watched an entire thing about it and the deaths abt Ladybird lake .

[@MadelynGrace1411]

Lore lodge coffee, the only drink to keep you up for 48hrs straight going down an internet rabbit hole

[@turtleanton6539]

Yeeeh🎉

[@titohhh420]

What is it, 12% meth?!?!?!

[@JimmieHammel]

Maybe you should talk to a pharmacist or toxicologist about what sorts of drugs might cause memory loss or unconsciousness in a moderately drunk person, but wouldn't show up on a standard tox screen. It could still be GHB, the body metabolizes that relatively quickly, but there are prescription drugs that might not be screened for but can cause the same effect.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

Topemax would do it, and I doubt that they routinely look for it in tox screens. It came to mind immediately both because of the awful Keneka Jenkins case, and because I'm on it for chronic migraines. It's a fairly common drug, prescribed for seizure disorders, migraines, and sometimes off-label for weight loss, and it does *not* mix well with alcohol - when I first went on it I discovered that my tolerance for alcohol had disappeared, and that it also helped to cause some of the worst hangovers in the history of humanity. Since it's not used recreationally, and isn't a "fun" drug, I don't think that it would be in a regular tox screen.

[@DjDeja]

Gabapentin could do it

[@WinterWitch01]

⁠@@DjDejaI agree Gabapentin could do it, but I’m not sure how’d you’d get that much Gabapentin into someone unknowingly, it tastes horrible and takes hours to take effect. Topamax tastes horrible, it comes in a sprinkle you could hide in food, but not alcohol. I’m so curious about this theory too

[@J3diMindTrix]

I don’t see how it could be anything other than ghb at this point really. I mean it’s possible I guess but what. A lot of the reason why they were going completely unsolved for so long was the lack of ability to test for ghb in a standard tox test as it’s not the most common thing that’s looked for (those being the more well-known ones e.g. coke opiates meth etc) testing for a more unusual substance like ghb takes a more rigorous test that costs a lot more so it’s only usually picked up in a second screening, and very good thing it was as coroners were just listing ‘accidental drowning’ even if there was not enough water in the lungs to have cause that or some other unknown cause for the death Now that it’s known that in these kind of cases this ghb spiking is taking place it’s showing up a lot more, with alarming frequency suggesting a lot of cases from the past could be linked to this drug and its use on an unwillingly targeted individual Whoever these killers are they are certainly what could be termed by behavioural analysis units as sophisticated in their methods, and seem to know what they’re doing so to speak, given that they so easily evade the police and any follow up investigation

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@WinterWitch01 One idea regarding Gabapentin (been on it, it's awful!) and Topemax - if it were crushed from the usual tablet form and put into a capsule and given to a willing drunk guy out partying as pure MDMA, he'd probably take it willingly, especially if it were a "gift" from a pretty girl. It's only an idea. but it's not impossible.

[@exitialempathy]

the quality, clarity, effort, and respectful approach you always have in your videos is unparalleled. AND you’re funny, you have always given us such great videos and you are APPRECIATED

[@joshuaromero4745]

As someone who has done a lot of GHB, Cullens blackout sounds like his drinks were spiked with GHB. The blackout is what makes me think this. GHB is hard to test cause it metabolizes so fast.

[@jillianwright6951]

see i’ve also done a ton of GHB, including purposely mixing it with alcohol. as well as taking it on a nightly basis for 9+ months, and i disagree. GHB does not cause blackouts. it causes you to go unconscious, as in sleep, but not blackout and be awake walking around. it can also cause just a general brain fog over time

[@MatthewKelley-mq4ce]

​@@jillianwright6951people react differently to substance, even if there is overarching commonality

[@BrokensoulRider]

@@jillianwright6951 Your tolerance is higher because of constantly ingesting. For people who don't normally take the stuff because they're not like you or the op, it will affect them differently. Or really anyone with differing medication tolerance. I'd essentially require an overdose because, even when I was younger and more fit, I had a hard time getting effects of drugs/alcohol.

[@jillianwright6951]

@@BrokensoulRider even with my tolerance back to zero it would still make me sleep before it makes me blackout. GHB puts you in a drunken state faster when mixed with alcohol, and without alcohol it puts you in a state that feels like you’re drunk. but either way you’re not blacking out. you will eventually either pass out, or it will wear off, depending on how much was given to you, your tolerance, and your sensitivity to the drug. but you won’t just be awake with no memory of the events. whatever was used was something different, possibly similar to GHB. people often make it themselves so i wouldn’t be surprised if they did something wrong and made a similar but different drug.

[@AustinHebrew]

This video gave me goosebumps and flashbacks to when I was a freshman at college in Lacrosse and within the first couple weeks of me being there and the first time going to a house party I blacked out (not from drinking because I had barely drank) and woke up in my dorm 12 hours late with zero recollection of what happened prior to that. Thank god my roommates helped me back and made sure I made it back safely or who knows what could have happened to me man. Scary that this happened to me and it all occurred within a half mile of where both vehicles or the guys were found at Wettstein Electric and on 9th and King Street. Makes my skin crawl

[@AustinHebrew]

This was 2013 btw

[@xombecca]

This is terrifying

[@MandyMan24]

Hi Aidans. Have you guys heard of the Man from the Train theory? It’s kinda like the early 1900s equivalent of the Smiley Face killers theory and a true crime version of Missing 411. Would make for some interesting content.

[@markbalentine-w6d]

oh like the richard remeraz serial killer?

[@MandyMan24]

@@markbalentine-w6dno this guy was called Billy the Axeman

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

The Man From The Train is a fascinating book. The fact that the authors think they know who he might have been, and that he could well have committed such notorious murders as the Villisca axe murders *and* the Hinterkaifek murders is a frightening but fascinating idea.

[@kingofhearts3185]

​@@thing_under_the_stairs That's how I heard of it, absolutely wild stuff if it's true.

[@kristinamullen4066]

That sounds interesting.I'Ll investigate it.I am so fascinated by these cases.

[@texasson]

Similar to the deaths around Lady Bird Lake in Austin, Texas... I saw a video from another creator talk about similarities between the Lady Bird Lake and Smiley Face Killers. "Accidental intoxicated drownings" of men, rumors amongst locals of a serial killer.... then the arrest of a serial killer, yet bodies continue to appear in the lake. Strange things happening around that lake.

[@kimberlyfrey8740]

They just pulled another one within the last week

[@atlasforme]

Yes many similar cases.

[@shadowmoon5445]

I was a ghb addict when I got into raves and there were times I woke up kilometers away from where I was to showing up at a friends house and made them spaghetti and said I was acting completely normal and thought I was slightly drunk yet didnt even remember it, so glad to be 15 years sober now

[@nikkireigns]

I hate to have to ask this, but do they do r@pe kits on men who come in to hospitals like this? I would think if it was a woman they would.

[@JimMilton-ej6zi]

I doubt it, in some places they don't even consider r@pe on men to be illegal, it's still very backwards how expendable men are treated compared to women.

[@alphooey]

@@JimMilton-ej6ziI’m from South Australia there were some horrible crimes committed against young men. Nightmare stuff. “The Family” murders and some other crimes that are interlaced.

[@nhvanonerz8244]

im wondering this as well. not only do they rule most of these smiley face killer cases drowings but im pretty sure they did not even run any rape kits altough its obvious these are most likely sexually motivated killings.. smh

[@WinterWitch01]

If there are signs of trauma to the an*s or genitals (I’m tiptoeing for KZbin censorship) then yes, a SAFE S*xual Assault Forensic Exam will be done

[@JASONLOTT30290]

Based on my personal experiences; even when men report they’ve been raped, family, friends, hospital staff & police laugh it off & tell you that you’re being ridiculous. No one believes grown men get raped. For males the likelihood of being believed about sexual assaults is never good even as a child & diminishes quickly to zero as soon as males have visible signs of puberty.

[@mcsquizzieee]

Living in La Crosse, WI, this is always an interesting topic.

[@Richard-j3z]

I'm from lansing IA so I feel ya there

[@BDD1018]

Do you know the Sterbas?

[@cainanthecrow9808]

Like I've said before this sounds like devils breathe, which negates suggestion refusal inhibitions. It literally makes you unable to refuse suggestions and causes short term amnesia, or time loss

[@kimberlyfrey8740]

Never heard of that. What is the actual name of that assuming that is it’s street name

[@juliehodges9182]

@@kimberlyfrey8740 Scopolamine. The natural form of which is derived from a plant called "angel's trumpet". There's some debate on how intense its effects are.

[@0Mike-0Mike]

⁠​⁠@@juliehodges9182That’s horrifying, I have Angel’s Trumpet in my yard. I had no idea. I’ve heard of Scopolamine being used in South America to drug and rob American and European men and some have died from it.

[@Dr.Gunsmith]

There is a strange death of a man near where I live, he was a solicitor under investigation from a uk watchdog, he was found dead after being seen on cctv putting furniture into a new place he’d bought and then on his usual jog, he had three stab wounds to the heart from a pointed sharp instrument, no hesitation marks just three holes into his chest, no weapon or knife or ice pick was found anywhere near him or in a large surrounding area they searched for weeks with dogs hundreds of police and metal detectors the full works, thing is why I say all that is they ruled it a suicide 🙄 and still insist he took his own life. this was in the United Kingdom,Durham, a few years back.

[@tracynorris5012]

Murder for sure. Nobody stabs themselves in the heart 3 times. Be careful..

[@MatthewKelley-mq4ce]

I'm baffled that that ever happens. Like obvious homicide being flagged suicide.

[@jacksmith2315]

Thats ridiculous. No one is going to stab themselves in the heart three times to kill themselves. Especially on their daily jog. A buddy of mine was killed and it was declared a suicide. He was found stabbed and the apartment was set on fire. Not only is that not a way someone would kill themselves, but this man was the most solid respectful humble person. Even if he were to kill himself, he would not set fire to a building/apartment were multiple families lived because he wouldn't one thing one person owns, nevermind everything multiple families own, and chance someone else getting injured or killed in a fire.

[@dodge33w]

i used to live in la crosse and worked as a medic there. I seriously cannot understate how easy it is to get drunk and fall into the mississippi. this town has three colleges and the amount of public drunkenness is ridiculous that being said it is interesting to think that there may be a killer running around. the drinking culture of the city is absolutely absurd and only someone who has lived in wisconsin can really know what i mean by that. i dont find it unlikely at all that that many young men have drowned to death, im actually suprised its not a fuckload more its a dangerous river.

[@jennieB1973]

I understand. I grew up 20 minutes from Red Wing in Mn.

[@halo2d]

Boston has a giant river that runs through it and it doesn’t have anywhere near the random sus drownings. New Orleans, same deal. How about philly and Pittsburgh? I’m not trying to negate or undermine your knowledge but it seems kind of obvious someone was luring these guys into the park under whatever pretext. The 5 years without a drowning sounds like someone went away for 5 years, got out, and went right back to it.

[@BDD1018]

Do you happen to know the Sterbas? Live right at the bottom of grandfather's bluff

[@DeliveryMcGee]

@@halo2dAll I know about Boston topography is from Fallout 4, where the water is generally lower than the land, so yeah, it'd be possible to fall in, maybe the bars are farther from the river. New Orleans, on the other hand, the river falls into you (seriously, most of NO is well below sea level, it's uphill to get from the bars to the river).

[@RAYMONGOUS]

It might be Indians too

[@alternativeprincess4783]

I love the ad :) Theres a cute dog, cool guy, and delicious coffee in a beautiful kitchen, what else could you need? This whole smiley case killer thing scares me, my bf lives around there...

[@ghoustiez]

as somebody from wisconsin, i love how much coverage you give on wisconsin cases 🙏

[@vitalucas9452]

I have noticed that there certainly are a lot of shocking murder trials from WI. 😢 Is it the cheese? 🧀 An inquiring Canadian. 🇨🇦

[@dburitto]

These are a strange joy to watch as a Wisconsin citizen

[@DjDeja]

Agreed

[@ogdenatwood161]

I was absolutely drugged in Nashville, TN. I was there last summer and some guy tried to convince me to do a shotgun contest and he put a plastic device on my can “to help me”. Fortunately my group kept me away and took care of me. I’m 6’1” and a nationally ranked wrestler, so the challenge was appealing but my group stopped me and took me away so I woke up in my hotel with no memory. I was told I was dancing on light posts and that’s not who I am. So whatever was on my drink certainly got me and I didn’t actually try to partake the challenges (which is absolutely because my group stopped me from doing so). This could be nothing but could be for the Riley Strain case. I was in Kid Rocks when that happened, the bar across the street from Luke Bryan. Very scary to learn about after

[@everlastinglife5978]

Thank God you have good friends.

[@ChicagoFaucet.etc.]

Story idea for you. Coincidentally, I happened to have grown up in Pittsburgh, but I had fully left to a different state by 2006. I was a paperboy in the late 80s, and I would read the newspaper as I delivered it. There is this mysterious murder that happened in Pittsburgh that I was following via the newspapers that I was delivering at the time. It was right before Christmas in either 1988 or 1989, when a dumpster-diver found a severed human head in a dumpster behind a convenience or consignment store. Despite having the head, the person could not immediately be identified. Over the next few weeks different body parts from the same body started randomly appearing across the Pittsburgh area. I specifically remember that someone found the teeth in a bird bath, and one of the lungs was found under a tree in a park. They were eventually able to identify this person as a man named Tony Michalowski. If I remember correctly, Tony was in his early 20s. He was a healthy and energetic young man, but also seemed to have some mental unsettling that caused him to move around the area frequently. People who knew of him stated that he was a really nice, but slightly troubled young man. He made money with construction jobs, or anything seasonal that he could get. No one ever knew him to take alcohol or any drugs of any kind. He was a hard worker, and was not known to involve himself with anyone or anything nefarious. Even with the severity of how Tony's body was dissected, they were still able to determine that Tony had an extremely high level of a sedative in his system - a level almost impossible to do on purpose or even by accident. It is thought that he fell victim to someone who sedated him to death, and then grisly cut up his body and dispersed it across the area. Since it was the 80s, Satanic Panic reared its head. Anyway, the mystery is still unsolved to this day.

[@cynthiabitting3337]

Wow!! That's interesting, maybe Lore Lodge should do a video on this!!

[@kimberlyfrey8740]

I live in PA and never heard of this case. Definitely going to go looking that up

[@ianfalconi6720]

You should look into similar events of single young men going missing after drinking in Boston!

[@vickyc6301]

As someone who lives in a city by a major river ( now given this is in Switzerland and not the US) I can just ad my own two cents nr 1 when we are drinking by the river or near it ( which is anywhere because our city Center surrounds the river ) we’re very aware of it’s presence…I’ve been absolutely waisted at 3-4 am walking by the river and it’s felt like a looming presence right next to me. Nr 2 just falling in even drunk just is less common than people think. Maybe this is because it’s a small country and the comparison is way off / or rivers especially the Rhein might be more secured off ( though I doubt it since it’s especially the lower bank is just a sheer drop in) but at least in my lifetime there hasn’t been an accidental drunk drowning. My point being I find it very strange that people just “fall in” how drunk do you have to be and how many people of that specific profile have to be that drunk for this to happen 6 times in 9 years. The numbers just baffle me but again this is totally anecdotal

[@jenhodges92]

I think you guys are 100 percent right on this. There should be an investigation.

[@HoosierDaddy2a]

Donut Operator and Lore Lodge are having their own LaCross, Wisconsin sagas

[@lostineggsaisle]

I like donut operator too

[@yumyumwhatzohai]

Yeah like what the fuck LaCrosse? Are they like the Florida of the North?

[@mickthicken3813]

Lacrosse is wild the college there is very well known for the drinking culture there but not like it's to different from the rest of wisco.

[@jchastain789]

Scary interesting is top 3, Darknet diaries for hacker things...

[@chzybean]

Wait, did T-Rex boy get arrested again?!

[@MarcLL]

Regarding the GHB: I imagine a large athletic young man would probably metabolize anything in his system a lot quicker than the average person, as well.

[@kimberlyfrey8740]

Might also be why they seem to be targeted

[@slwtgf]

Our Chris Jenkins plight, here in Minnesota, still frustrates and outrages us, to this very day. First deemed accidental drowning, LE then later overturned it to homicide. But not without the Jenkin’s family fighting to make it happen!

[@Mrs.Joness]

Hey, I won't deny it, I discovered your channel after someone told me they watched my video because they thought it was one of yours at first. And honestly... I take this as a great compliment 😊

[@manuelacosta9463]

If you haven't already, you should do a video on the Manchester Pusher, an alleged serial killer with a similar M.O regarding victims. England's Smiley Face case. Keep up 5he great work Aiden and LL personnel.

[@user-nq4hw5eb9d]

My friend had something odd happen when we were in college. It was a small college town so everyone knew each other. One night at the bar there was a girl no one knew that was buying my friend drinks. At some point I guess she tried leaving with him or something and one of our friends grabbed him and didn’t let him go with her. Turns out our friend didn’t remember any of it. I wasn’t there but I feel bad since I didn’t believe something like that would happen

[@michaelp4834]

Another outstanding video, Gentlemen! Thank you.

[@lydianelson7737]

Great video, I’m glad you’re talking about this case!!

[@FlagrantFemboy]

If I had a nickel for every time Lacrosse Wisconsin is mentioned by KZbinrs I watch I’d have too many damn nickels

[@margretminer8589]

Thanks for the clarification on the Riley Strain video, your hard work and research!

[@sterlingwilkes3240]

I can’t decide if i like the “straight true crimeu” or “long history lesson opening” style better. Loving both styles though, keep up the excellent work guys. I still recommend looking into Casey and the Bear from Ernul, NC a few years ago, seems right up your alley

[@JimMilton-ej6zi]

When it comes to the smiley face killers I don't think that the smiley faces have anything to do with it, but I DO think that an opportunistic killer or bad person would be out there taking easy, vulnerable targets because that's how so many killers operate, and who could be more vulnerable than a drunk person walking near water? You could push them in and if they survive then it's not like they will remember who pushed them in anyways.

[@evolingwren]

Everyone needs to be extra careful with their drinks right now. One of my kiddos is an EMT in central California and there is a spate of spiking in area bars that are putting revelers in the hospital. The call was for one patient, but by the time kiddo and partner got there, the patient's friend was having a full blown seizure. Both had to be rushed to the hospital... and there was already people there with the same symptoms. Watch your drinks, watch your friends' backs, and spit out anything that tastes strange/bad/off/whatever.

[@TriplicateTrey]

This is likely an atypical compliment… but dude. You are intelligent as fuck.

[@alligatorghost]

I got off a long day working in a middle school and fuck I'm glad there's a lore lodge to come home to

[@mn-buckshot1165]

As a local to the area. Can confirm everyone knows going to the river after drinking is a horrible idea and most people here go to bars in groups so I think something had to happen to peal these guys away from their friends. A lot of people here believe it foul play for most of the cases mentioned.

[@pasqualetttto]

You calling Aiden babe is everything to me! Another great video, guys!

[@jankurth7445]

In my history research here in Pittsburgh, I recently found case that's very "smiley face" by all appearances, but many decades earlier. It was the disappearance of Eldia Monroe Smith, a 19-year-old radio repairman from downtown Pittsburgh on Dec. 17, 1934. In what was one of the busiest seasons of the year in downtown Pittsburgh (one week before Christmas), nobody saw him jump from one of Pittsburgh many bridges. Nobody reported a history of suicidal ideation or depression. Eldia's body was eventually found in the Ohio River near Aliquippa, PA, which is 18 1/2 miles NW of Pittsburgh as the crow flies. This was over two months later, on Feb. 25, 1935. It's a case that's obviously not connected with any contemporary Smiley Face situation, but still fascinating and very baffling.

[@tristanmcnay2357]

Ngl bro you’re looking kinda jacked. Whatever you doin keep it up

[@zachariahpoltergeist4516]

I was born in Wisconsin. The fact that there are so FEW alcohol related drownings is the real mystery.

[@GOBIRDSPHILS]

Has anyone thought of the angle that these victims were closeted gay or questioning and they meet a man while out, started to flirt, got given a drink that was drugged, were SA'd, then killed? This may be why Cullen felt like a victim but didn't say anything since he would have outted himself. It makes sense for both example Aiden says about a woman helping a drunk guy out of the bar but instead of a woman it's another guy. Most people wouldn't think twice thinking it's a buddy helping his drunk friend home. Also, a guy would be able to physically pickup, throw, etc. another man into the river. Added on top of the fact that female serial killers are exceedingly rare unless the woman is either working with the serial killer or being coerced by one. Disclaimer I am by no means casting aspersions to anyone in the LGBTQ+ community. This is just a theory.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

I think it's multiple people, both men and women, working together. These days people don't tend to stay in the closet unless they are living in a hostile environment, either family, religious, or both. College towns aren't really like that.

[@GOBIRDSPHILS]

@@Pushing_Pixels true but I know plenty of people who still haven't come out to their families or coworkers. There's still closed people out there for various reasons. I'm not sure of the acceptance in the Midwest but there are still plenty of communities that frown on LGBTQ+ people

[@kingofhearts3185]

I can see that being the case for some of these.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

@@GOBIRDSPHILS It's certainly possible.

[@tophergerkey]

The number of times I've said to myself "wow, that's a super heterosexist assumption" in response to these videos is pretty telling. Any queer man hearing "victim said he was going home from the bar, went in a different direction and was spotted in a public park/near a bridge before disappearing" is going to have a very different idea of what was going on.

[@AJ11OH-IO]

The most impressive theories and breakdowns I've ever seen 👏 Glad I found this channel. This world would be so much better if law enforcement, FBI, and other GOVT agencies had the drive you seem to have when covering cases! All the best from Cbus, Go Bucks 😉

[@wills2254]

As a local(ish)I really wouldn't be surprised if this is a Serial. I know when I first hit drinking age my Mom always warned me to be careful any time I went out drinking in a bigger city like Milwaukee because she's convinced that something is happening.

[@Lewa1110]

I live about 45 minutes from La Crosse and its cool (In a bad way I guess?) to hear you talking about places I know of. Growing up it was well known by kids that La Crosse had high drowning rates by college kids. These videos would explain a LOT

[@Strafetyz]

Look into alex holden drowning. 25 year old tall white male both parents were judges. Was out drinking late night in downtown sac then found in the river one month later in a obvious spot on the river after everyone and dive people had been searching everyday

[@namedrop721]

An ex coworker grew up in the area. Sac is apparently famous for people ‘mysteriously’ ending up in the river. The cartels are suggested by locals but it’s also a hub for a huge amount of nasty things so anyone in the wrong time/place can end up there.

[@e.w.9351]

I mentioned this on the last La Crosse video but living in New Orleans it just baffles me that there is such a theme in that area and not down here. The river is much more dangerous at its final stretch and the deepest point is here in New Orleans. We have multiple colleges, tons of tourists, and a very heavy drinking/party culture (and strong pours). We have a very accessible riverfront including an area where you can literally just walk straight down some stairs directly into the river. And yet with all of these factors I don’t hear about frequent drownings like this, in an area where you’d think alcohol induced drownings might be at their worst. Very bizarre to me

[@zorgath420]

It doesn't take much to get a single man to follow and attractive woman out of the bar. Honestly, it doesn't take much to get them to follow and unattractive one either

[@farinshore8900]

I, too, think the smiley faces are coincidental.

[@fx7105]

a female serial killer with the same pathology and the same typical sadistic and sexual motives as most male serial killers have, would kind of have to do it in this way. she'd have to drug them, could use gender bias as cover for being non suspicious, would target young attractive men, wouldn't have much trouble having men leave with her voluntarily, wouldn't be recognizeable to most if she just changed hair color and style of clothing every time she did it, and also wouldn't leave "dna". someone like that would be virtually undetectable cause the first step in getting her caught would genuinely have to be for the police to even admit or recognize that a person like this even exists. i don't think the fbi would even profile a person like this. women serial killers usually poison and do not "hunt" in this way. it's basically unheard of, which is exactly what would go in her favor. maybe this case isn't that, but i'm certain a person like this exists, existed or will exist at some point, and would probably never be caught cause of reasons listed. (i wouldn't use aileen wuornos as an example because she was a trainwreck, and definitely wasn't meticulous at all.)

[@kingofhearts3185]

Astronomically rare, but certainly not impossible. And I think some of these cases are due to exactly that.

[@filipferencak2717]

I would argue that it's significantly more likely to be a duo with a man and a woman involved. The woman lures and the man does the rest.

[@kaylew108]

I’ve come to really love this channel. Good stuff guys 👍

[@gabrielsfilms2086]

"yah the police thought I was making it up" we uh. I feel like we kinda glossed over that

[@rachaelbickel575]

Fyi.... You, in this channel are the first channel that I started deep diving on youtube. It was about a year and a half ago or so. From you, I got hooked on Mr ballin LOL and now I am addicted to KZbin and watch it a few hours a day!

[@Pigeonsandoranges]

Serial killer or not why haven't the local council done something to make it harder to "accidently" end up in the river?

[@graceritchie-z5x]

Another great video with a great amount of detail. Good work.

[@laureneliserod]

Could not get over the fact he kept pronouncing Cullen “colon”

[@artoriosvii6801]

Between Code Blue Cam, Donut Operator, and now Lore lodge; La Crosse is getting a LOT of attention lmao

[@RevanX77]

What you really need to look into is more "near-miss" instances. Cullen Fortney actually woke up in the river, but what you should investigate are: 1. Missing persons cases where the individual was never found. 2. Deaths where the individual was not found in the river, but where evidence suggests they may have been drugged and/or restrained for a period of time. 3. Cases of people in the area who fit the victimology and had strange episodes consistent with having been drugged. The last point is the most important, but also the hardest to verify and follow up on. Because based on the suspected methodology, there are very many instances where someone could have been dosed with GHB, but for whatever reason circumstances never actually led them to become a feasible target. If you think about it, to actually isolate someone from a bar, especially if they're with friends, is not very easy or something which could be done with high consistency. Meaning, there should be many cases where men experienced symptoms of having been drugged, but they were never actually abducted and killed.

[@taylorconnor2315]

You must be new to the channel to think they haven't covered everything you're asking them to "investigate"

[@colopatironxv]

@thelorelodge, you do such an excellent job on these stories and cases! You should look into the case of Jelani Brinson, its a very strange case with several unexplainable elements. He was a friend of mine and a good guy, and i know someone out there knows something they arent talking about. You would do his case justice.

[@alphooey]

I do believe there is something suspicious happening and possibly links between cases. I agree that there is a “honey trap” element in at least some of these cases. One of the things that would “lure” a young man away from friends or into secluded area or strange car would be a young lady. I think the smiley face graffiti is just coincidence.

[@DaddiDrako]

I thought the same about the smiley faces till I watched the video of the police chief announcing they found his body and there’s a girl in the background smiling but trying to hide it and holds up her phone that has a case covered in smiley faces and points it at the camera and she also shows up in an earlier interview aswell. Also she has no reason to be at the announcement at 9am with only the police and news teams

[@EMurph42]

2:58 YES!! I owned a coffee shop for a year & dark roasts are wrong! Starbucks is the worst, this is the most accurate add I’ve ever seen. Finally a commercial that doesn’t lie!

[@JankyBruv]

Holy shiii... we have a survivor! Get this man to every hypno-psycho-regressive-professional stat!

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

That’s how we’ll find out the aliens wearing a Bigfoot costume did it

[@justkenzie]

I've been hearing you say "colon" this whole time, and I'm thinking, "What IS the guy's name, cause it can't be COLON!" 🤦‍♀️🤣

[@TRandlePhoto]

As a primarily audio viewer or I guess listener in this case (I drive all day for work), I wouldn't have even known about the mistakes in the first video had you not pointed them out 😂 side note: I'm a big fan of the newly sectioned portions of the video, but for us primarily audio listeners, could you or thornberry maybe narrate what the title card is saying during transition? 99% of the time I'm just like "yep that's a transition, no idea what it's gonna be tho" 😂

[@sseriksson4076]

I second the request for reading the title cards!!

[@Mike-es2yg]

When you said there wasnt going to be a history segment, i said "then show those dogs!!" And you DID! 😂😂

[@drewroosevelt6506]

The smiley faces are a red herring. It’s just an absurd detail that makes the entire scenario seem less likely

[@Pushing_Pixels]

The faces are probably irrelevant. It's the MO and specific type of victim that could indicate a connection.

[@DaddiDrako]

@@Pushing_Pixelscould indicate connection wym they clearly do show connection it’s way more than coincidence

[@Special_Observations_89]

Hi, I wanted to contribute something here. In the past I liked to take a GHB prodrug known as butanediol. This substance readily metabolizes to GHB in the body. It is sweet, with a mild plastic-like taste; it is easily masked by any kind of soft drink, much more so than GHB which is salty. I would never take it with alcohol as it was known to induce blackout rapidly when combined at dosages of 1tsp, but would often wear off within an hour. This substance used to be freely available on ebay until the late 2010's. You are quite right about it now showing up on drug tests. If one wanted to incapacitate someone with even a moderate amount of alcohol in their system already, BD would be my drug of choice. Benzodiazepines such as Rohypinol have much longer half lifes, and are not naturally occuring in the body like GHB, thus easily detected.

[@RAYMONGOUS]

I think it's an elite frat entrance fee.

[@BeansWebster-xz7ve]

As a writer (of sorts) I wonder how many people - writers probably- think that as well. I did

[@RAYMONGOUS]

@BeansWebster-xz7ve honesty , he whole situation seems like a writers dream, which hopefully is the case and not an actual conspiracy.

[@jwelch1027]

Great content love all of your topics!! Keep them coming 💯

[@Jim-Mc]

My theory is the killers are women working together: This explains the targeted stereotypical alpha male victims, female boot print, how the victims were lured, and why no serious injuries exist (these are basically poisonings). In more recent cases copycats occurred or the idea was passed directly to a younger group.

[@mere7583]

Women or men who don’t fit the alpha stereotype, or both. A lot of younger millennials and gen Z were raised on the idea white men are inherently privileged, sexist, and racist. It’s not hard to imagine a group with that view and a malicious streak doing this.

[@DjDeja]

Like maybe a sorority...

[@Pushing_Pixels]

I think it's a mixed group, of three or more, with the women acting as lures. Basically a small serial murder gang. Some of the people pulled out of the water have injuries consistent with a fist fight, like busted up knuckles. They probably came to before they could be put into the water, and tried to defend themselves. A woman on the receiving end of those knuckles would stand out like a sore thumb the next day, but a guy might be able to wave it off as no big deal. I think they target the guys they do because they see them as a bigger "prize". I suspect that, having chosen to be killers, they are comparing themselves to and looking down their noses at other killers who target more vulnerable people. It's an egotistical claim to superiority, rather than actually seeking a challenge, since these victims are just as vulnerable as anyone once they're drugged. I think these La Crosse killers are one of a number of individuals and groups, loosely connected via the internet. They share similar motives and some have co-ordinated their basic MO. They both encourage and compete with each other, while sharing tips and experiences as a way of reliving the crimes, and gaining status and recognition within the network. That means there is a cybercrime element, in the form of a conspiracy, that crosses state and possibly national borders. It would be an incredibly complex and difficult case, involving multiple jurisdictions and agencies, which is why no one in LE wants to publicly acknowledge it exists. That's my theory. Hopefully I'm wrong. I have no idea if the smiley faces are actually related though.

[@tomkelsey2303]

I grew up in NW Ohio, one to one and a half miles from the Maumee River. Everyone in that town got fucked up, but I have NEVER heard of anyone walking into that river intoxicated and then drown. Nobody.

[@keelyemerine-mix1051]

I have been much impressed with your Christian witness and your commitment to storytelling, both as a Christian with a ministerial background and a former cop reporter you're doing great work here, and I appreciate your staying on this subject because I think you are onto something. Keep doing what you're doing, and may God be with you in your search for truth. your search for truth your search for truth

[@am74343]

Could you please investigate the case of Joshua Szostak who disappeared after a night of drinking in Downtown Albany, NY in December 2007? His body was later found floating in the Hudson River a few miles downstream. His case is not talked about very much, but to me it fits the same pattern as many of these other cases. There is one grainy CCTV camera clip of Joshua outside the bar, acting strangely as if he'd been drugged. It is very perplexing because once again, it was ruled an "accidental drowning", but many people in the area believe his death was linked to the Smiley Face Killers.

[@kenziecarter9458]

Fridays are the best days

[@datboi2250]

This is like a strange new world to me. Where I live there is definitely police corruption, misconduct and straight incompetence, but here it's 5 people, that like you said died in circumstances that have "definitely not a serial killer" written all over and police says: well you technically can't hold it against us if we call these accidents.

[@butter7734]

Something isn't right with this one. There has to be more cctv out there that shows something besides someone getting in the truck. He disappeared from the bar because his friends were looking for him. There isn't surveillance of him leaving? Or security cams on homes showing if he was alone or not? There has to be something. Someone needs to go door to door and check. From the bar to the water. The news should suggest people who have cameras to look.

[@alphooey]

Definitely think they should as folk in the area to check their home security footage. Even doorbell footage might show something.

[@butter7734]

@@alphooey I agree and people might not even know they caught something. I mean most don't check daily unless they have a reason. I could see someone having footage and not knowing.

[@namedrop721]

These were also happening from 1995 to 2009…people had far fewer cctv and cameras period, they didn’t have doorbell cameras….there were no smartphones

[@butter7734]

@@namedrop721 I'm strictly talking about the survivor. That happened in modern day so there should be footage.

[@shadowsniper37]

Bro it’s so weird hearing the name of a place you live next to in a video about serial killer. Not only that but I work at Gundersen so that made it even more weird to hear

[@caitlin5508rules]

I personally feel like it is a gay man who lures these people out of the bar once they drug them. It happened to my ex in 2017 in Pittsburgh with a glass of wine. He fought someone off before stumbling home. He never ordered wine out again. I really think it could be multiple people though too.

[@danielfield7986]

If i've learned anything from Donut operator, its that drunk drownings in in LaCross sound pretty on par and normal for that place.

[@Loreweavver]

Im glad you seem to be distancing from the idea of the smiley face urban myth. It's not real but does have a risk of encouraging a misled copycat.

[@kingofhearts3185]

That's an idea I've always wondered about, copycats using urban legends like this or the baby crying outside at night in order to slip under the radar.

[@Loreweavver]

@@kingofhearts3185 i think that's partially why police don't immediately place similar crimes together. It's an Occam's Razor thing. A serial killer isn't out of the question but requires more assumptions than individual separate instances of violence and/or accident.

[@kingofhearts3185]

@@Loreweavver Do you know the baby crying story?

[@Loreweavver]

@@kingofhearts3185 specifically no, but I can guess. Tigers and mountain lions have been using that trick since before we could talk.

[@kingofhearts3185]

@@Loreweavver Women home alone at night hear a baby crying outside their door. Then they realize it's a looped recording. A trick to make them open the door.

[@mecahhannah]

Awesome as always thanks guys