The Missing Sodder Children of West Virginia

[@johnward6722]

As a firefighter, all I’ll say is it doesn’t matter which way the wind blows-you can always smell burning flesh.

[@thatguy5779]

chilling statement

[@Topdoggie7]

Damn accurate sentence.

[@sereneprincess4940]

Former EMT that worked many a burn-scene: Yep. 100%. And it's a smell that you never forget. If any of the family had ever smelled burning flesh prior to that event, they would immediately know if there were bodies in the house when it was burning.

[@johnward6722]

@@sereneprincess4940 yeah absolutely. Also disturbingly-people don’t burn fast. There would have been screaming. At least a little until air ways closed up

[@kylejordan2654]

​@johnward6722 not if they had died from smoke inhalation.

[@powwowken2760]

The part that always gets me with this case is that even modern crematoriums that specialize in turning bodies to ash often leave identifiable pieces behind. Either they never looked through the rubble carefully enough or the kids weren't there because they did not get turned entirely to ash.

[@WolfShadowhill]

I’ve worked for a funeral home and it takes at least 1500°f for 1-3 hours on average to cremate a person, after which the bones are the only thing left, severely weakened, but still bones, it’s still only after they’re pulverized in a cremulator that they look like the white ashes you receive. A house fire for 45min would likely have left remains with flesh on the bones. So finding nothing tells me they were not in there to begin with.

[@teaspoonsofpeanutbutter6425]

​@@WolfShadowhill a CREMULATOR?! thT sounds equally cool and disturbing!

[@thegunfoogle2864]

​@@teaspoonsofpeanutbutter6425 yes it's basically an evil little blender, more ball mill but simply put. Cremation takes post processing and when it's done fast and careless it leaves behind 40lb of bone. You can see the piles of bone from Chinas last genocide from space.

[@tranquility1967]

​@WolfShadowhill that's why we all believe the kids were not there! We agree with you.

[@bloodyneptune]

@WolfShadowhill _Cremulator?_

[@AnnahsWorldOfRandome]

If the kids were stolen it would have been pretty easy at that time to make them believe that oh, were cops your house was on fire the rest of your family died, we’re taking you somewhere safe. And then sold them to different families as ‘adopted’

[@fluffyyote]

I never considered that! That’s entirely possible.

[@timdadwagan]

It feels like the kids were missing before the fire

[@SoulDevoured]

I remember reading stories of people selling children during the great depression. It wasn't but 10-15 years before when this happened...

[@tessfabled4115]

^^ To be honest I believe this is the most likely, although I have trouble believing the 14 year old wouldn't have looked into this further once he came of age, as he'd have the most memories of the incident.

[@samanthaquinlan4126]

@@tessfabled4115That maybe why the second sighting (if true) didn’t include him, sadly.

[@kimiko11150616]

I think the next best thing to do is if the descendants of the remaining kids did 23 and me and used the family finding feature. They could possibly find descendants of the missing children to find out if they lived. It worked with Augustus.

[@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD]

Joseph Augustus Zarelli?

[@z20man10]

Yeah

[@RebeccaGreen-jt3qk]

That's exactly what I was going to say. It may take a little time, but after the children that got out and grandchildren identified, looking at other matches may prove the 5 did live. I personally think they were kidnapped while outside doing their nightly chores. They took the 5 year old out with them because the oldest daughter was asleep on the couch already. The mom had told the kids they could stay up as long as they got their chores done. Some of the chores were outside.

[@DamePiglet]

My grandmother was "adopted" (no adoption papers, no birth certificate that I can locate) by a childless couple. My mom didn't even know it (tho admittedly, she's kind of a dingbat). She came from a large Italian family in the Brooklyn area, but she was born in the 20s and my cousins are all distant & elderly. I really can't tell what generation my grandmother came from. She was either the daughter or granddaughter of a 38 yr old widow with 13 children.

[@tarblade1448]

I work next to a pet crematory, and you can smell it for half a mile in every direction, the smell of burning flesh and hair is indistinguishable from anything, you can even smell it indoors.

[@karisbarfield8948]

I am married to a retired fireman/EMT. He says your facts about housefires is pretty close to right, for homes of that vintage. Great story, thank you for the video.

[@Etherman7]

My grandfather was a "Fire Chief" after WW2 in a small town. He was there when they set up the first actual dispatch system in the region, and when they hired paramedics for the first time. The amount of training then vs. now is insane, they really were just volunteers doing their best a lot of the time. That's not to minimize it of course, they did amazing work with what they had, but I could see this particular example being one of incompetence instead of malice. Even today there are incompetent and dismissive investigators and departments, back then with minimal to no real training? Yeah.

[@wrongturnVfor]

they didnt even have fire hydrants. They would be getting buckets of water from houses and wells. SMH

[@bloodyneptune]

The most bizarre part of this for me is the liver in a box. The only possible reason to put it there would be to trick them into thinking it was one of their kids', but like...did they not think theyd be suspicious over how one of their kids' organs went from their body into a _box?_ Forget the fact that it wasn't burnt, it was too fresh, and also how it even would have got seperated from a body; _it was in a box._ Obviously they were gunna have it tested because of _that_ alone. Who thought that was a good idea??

[@zuzwha]

maybe it was just a hoax?

[@lesliemoon6093]

Could also be some teenagers fucking with these people. Happens a lot.

[@XXMatt0040XX]

If this was a mob hit, maybe making a statement?

[@a-iz4pg]

@@XXMatt0040XX Well then they failed the basic tenets of effective rhetoric because the message was vague/unclear and was not received.

[@Canev821]

Mob hits usually focus on the person they have an issue with very rarely on the kids or wife

[@enthiegavoir5955]

Listening to the history of Christmas and getting hit with the phrase "holy bitch slap at nicaea" is one of the reasons I love this channel so much.

[@Sousabird]

St. Nicholas of the Holy Bitch Slap of Nicaea, Ora pro nobis.

[@mommengaproppe5093]

We rewound a few times!

[@NihilObstatMihi]

I have loved the thought of A saint slapping a heretic, but the earliest source of this event from the 300s dates from around the 1300s, so it is dubious as to whether or not this famous event actually happened.

[@Pdstor]

@@NihilObstatMihi Granted, we're talking about an era of historians who would've scrubbed their own works out of existence if they caught even a whiff of us in the modern age who turned out to be the ones looking back the hardest. At any rate St. Nicholas would be horrified knowing that this dark bit of hagiography became the top thing shared about him, "you guys don't get hagiography, do you?" being one of many replies he'd give.

[@NihilObstatMihi]

@@Pdstor Welll.....He would be appalled by many things he saw in our world today, and in awe about many other things. If I may be so bold to say.

[@WolfShadowhill]

A 45min house fire is not enough to brake down bone, I’m a funeral director, and cremated remains are bones pulverized after the the cremation. It doesn’t naturally become a powder

[@JustinFawcett-ft8im]

that makes sense, I would also think that cremated bone being in a dry & cooked state the process of pulverization would be easier

[@vibechecked7522]

All I can think about is how you pulverize them. Do you use a giant grinder or do you crush them in like, a big mortar and pestle?

[@csolivais1979]

​@@vibechecked7522at the cemetery I worked at, we used a grinder. As the bones were removed from the crematorium, they would break up into small pieces. Then placed into the grinder.

[@solotsotsi360]

Cremulator it's called... Bone blender. See the previous comments and replies- I think it's the second one.

[@LadyBits2023]

... what is utterly bizarre thing to lie about on a KZbin comment section dude you're not a funeral Director🤣

[@garrettweeks8639]

I appreciate how well you did telling this story, George and Jenny are my great great grandparents so I’ve been around the sodder fire stuff my whole life, and you were pretty spot on with everything.

[@bustedblu7737]

Assuming you are an actual family member, its the internet I trust no one. Might I suggest doing a 23 and me and using the family finding feature? If the children lived, this could lead to other relative from them. Which would at least give something.

[@fiicarus]

You spelled Jennie’s name wrong dude- definitely ur great great grandma

[@jahimuddin2306]

@@fiicarus, Auto-correct will do that.

[@Rosa-kd2cl]

I’m seconding what the first reply said. If you’re interested then I’d suggest getting your DNA tested and using the FamilyFinder feature. There were five kids who went missing in the 1940s, surely some of them had kids and descendants, maybe even some who have also gotten their DNA tested.

[@sherryceltic9856]

I’m from WV and this case has interested (haunted) me for decades. I wish that family could find some closure but at-least they know people still care. We’re looking forward to this episode.

[@RachelRodriguez-jq2ue]

"if you don't want me to pronounce that letter don't put it there" 😂

[@jplays338]

West Virginian names for sure.

[@JimBob-jr5up]

Louis being pronounced "LoOie" is definitely French but our English variation is not simply a copy of the French name. And to be completely honest, i never knew people made the argument he addressed. I had also always thought that Louis is the proper spelling, while "Lewis" is for people who.... lets just say, who would also name their daughter Porsche or Mercedes.

[@michaelwolfe9496]

Ironic that he continued to mispronounce Fayetteville the whole time.

[@briannam3140]

@@michaelwolfe9496that bugged me sm! and he’s from not horribly far from WV he should’ve known lol

[@callsign_tourist]

The grenade mentioned almost spunds like a No. 76 special incendiary grenade. They were made by the UK, and there were quite a few built for the war. It was a white phosphorus based grenade that ignited on impact.

[@michaelmignone5869]

The anti tank no 74 aka sticky bomb looks close also

[@chrisleigh8886]

Italy also manufacuted incendiary grenades that fit the description. They were infamous for looking like brightly coloured toys to innocent eyes and many children were maimed by them when they were left behind en mass as Italian forces retreated in North and East Africa in WW2. This whole case is also textbook behaviour of Mussolini's thugs in Italian communities around the world during this period.

[@theredrisen9520]

​@@chrisleigh8886Are you referring to the "red devil" italian hand grenades? They do slightly fit the description mentioned in the video.

[@chrisleigh8886]

I believe that is what they were nicknamed by British soldiers, but the official designation of the grenade escapes me.

[@theredrisen9520]

@@chrisleigh8886 They are designated as Mod. 35 hand grenades. But I could be wrong.

[@wrongturnVfor]

One thing to keep in mind. The phonecall from an unkown someone before the line was cut and fire started was propbably someone confirming that they were at home. If the mother picks up the phone, atleast some of the many many children will be home. Always be wary of strange phonecalls. Also the man coming in looking for work was pretty sus. He could be mapping the house trying to get an idea of the layout. Also the men watching kids. It is possible the kids went out at night and were just abducted and the fire then started or something. I do believe that a mixture of rubber and gasoline was used as a crude incendiary mixture during ww. Also the term pineapple bomb has been used for various kinds of bombs over time. The greande shown in the video here but also for cluster bombs at one point and also for chemical bombs including but not limited to those containing napalm. You do kind of have to look into the history of all countries and not just USA. In the vein of it possibly being a homemade chemical bomb, it would be useful to know where in the house the kids were. Because the fire can be very hot at the place the bomb is but not so hot elsewhere. Would be useful to study the workings of chemical bombs for that. As for remains. we could argue that the fire was hotter and started with something else. Which would make sense. but that is the wrong question. what would be helpful to know what other things in the house were destroyed. Cetain metals and stuff only burn at a temp where bones are destroyed. SO If they were destroyed then the fire ran hotter than normal housefires. If they didnt then the children werent there. Also would be useful to know if everything in the house was ash or were there remains of things left behind, And if things from like one room or area were burtn more than others. Butofcourse they didnt properly do the dig...so. Also I have never heard of a fire that will cmpletely burn the bones but not touch the liver. Also you have to consider the job he was doing - truck driver. Could be totally possible that he was himself involved in smuggling or trafficking things for the mafia here (not in italy). Maybe he got involved with them early on and why his brother ran back immediately. He might have seen or done something he shouldnt have which is why the mafia might have been involved. Alternatively, he could have been doing shady things for the government and seen or done something he shouldnt have and lets be honest, they arent much different from the mafia either.

[@andrewschoepfer9175]

Saying the government isn't much different than the mafia is being far too soft on them. The government is literally the mafia

[@silhouettespectre8126]

Yeah after ww2 the gov and mafia were hand in hand, was the only way to take Italy from its people.

[@wrongturnVfor]

​@@andrewschoepfer9175 That is exavtly the point

[@MeYou-gm6ty]

Dont Eva answer your cell phone

[@johnscanlon2598]

I know the US military made sticky bombs to throw and get attached to the wheels and tracks of tanks to disable them

[@luciousalpaca6481]

I think some family members should submit their DNA to see if there are any unknown matches out there. If those kids survived, then one or more had children of their own.

[@maureenwilliford8985]

I have a hard time believing that 5 kids just docilely went along with strangers leaving the rest of their family behind. The younger ones I’m sure would have been crying, screaming for mom, etc., so, it would have taken quite a few people to control them. I tend to think the kids were still downstairs and were taken because they could identify the culprits.😊

[@redred222]

and if they died in the fire there would be evidence of the bodies but there wasent any

[@tuomasronnberg5244]

What if the children weren't kidnapped but they ran away on purpose? 🤔

[@wrongturnVfor]

or they were like drugged or something

[@wrongturnVfor]

why? @@tuomasronnberg5244 And just as somene calls to confirm someone is at home, then cuts line and sets the house on fire? nah

[@BrokensoulRider]

They could be knocked out, or bribed out. Kids are weird.

[@1-eye-willy]

oh,yes. a history of Christmas. it wouldn't be a lore lodge video without it

[@nateno8965]

I'm quite sad he never talked about Yule where 90% of modern Christmas traditions come from

[@thatguyintherain3168]

Child: Dies Aiden: It's a Christmystery! I fricking love this channel.

[@JaelaOrdo]

Been waiting for a video on this subject since I first subscribed, as a mother I can’t imagine the horror these parents must’ve went through. Just the fire would be bad enough but not knowing the truth would be so much worse.

[@lastofthehouseplants3590]

Your videos always serve as a dual purpose for me. I love listening to them like a podcast when I get stuff done during the day, and when I go to bed, they put me right to sleep. And then the next day i have to go back and see where I dropped off because I actually want to watch the video.

[@pgrl749]

My favorite thing about your style is how you start a video about a 1940s unsolved mystery by giving a fairly thorough background on a millennia-old holiday

[@Princess_Celestia_]

"That wiring was brand new" Homie, we have a hotel that was first wired for electricity back in 1935. It passed muster but five weeks after it was wired for electricity, it caught fire durle to faulty wiring. It's a well documented fact that electrical wiring in the U.S. pre-1960, especially in the more rural parts of the country was sub pare and prone to causing electrical fires.

[@settame1]

Our house was built in 2016, and had been inspected twice. When my husband and father in law went to put dimmer switches in they discovered several light switches were just “touching” the connections (just touching the screw) and could have at any time fallen off and started a fire. They got so paranoid they went through and inspected every outlet and light switch and there was more than one that would not have passed inspection had it actually been done correctly. That’s a modern home that’s actually close to 500k, so imagine back in the day.

[@izzisart]

Honestly, when he first mentioned them getting it rewired, my first thought was "Then obviously whoever they hired did a bad job and wired it wrong." That's not to say I definitely think it's that, but having it have been rewired so recently actually makes it more, not less, likely in my mind.

[@-C-R-]

What this and other missing kids videos confirms for me is that trafficking of kids has been going on longer than what folks realize. Stay vigilant parents!

[@FaithAndRepentance]

1800s

[@Filmj2000]

I feel like it was probably a nasty kidnapping where the kidnapper set the house on fire in some way to distract everyone whilst he got the kids or just to cause more problems

[@trypickledcandy]

"Just in case that little history lesson put you to sleep-" bro the little history lesson is my favorite part of these videos!! I think it's so cool and unique and really puts these videos a peg above others like it

[@NuclearCowboy71]

I was raised in Fayetteville and my parents live less than a mile from the Sodder home. After all these years it’s still eerie to drive past the home and realize it’s still not solved.

[@Pagan-of_GoodTimes]

My mother is from Vicenza (Northern Italy), and came to the US in 1980. While I was growing up, I asked for her thoughts on Mussolini more than once, but she usually responded by first cursing his name and then warning me to not mention him around my nonna. When I visit family in Italy today, I always get the impression that the general populace hates Mussolini.

[@lindasue8719]

Similar here. My great-grandparents moved from Italy to Canada I'm not sure exactly when. They died before I was born family always told how my great-grandfather spit on Mussolini's face when he saw him in the newspaper.

[@Orpilorp]

I have been grieved by this story since I first heard of it from Mysterious WV. I believe the children were stolen when they were out doing their chores, and trafficked. It is so heartbreaking.

[@lilletrille1892]

The liver part is so ridiculous. The bones supposedly burned to ashes, but not a liver?!? Yeah right!

[@babaksenia2532]

Christmas is celebrated in 25. December because of the Gregorian calender. We celebrate on 7. January on the Julian calender, the "old" calender.

[@FaithAndRepentance]

And Bible readers don't celebrate at all because we know Jesus was born in Harvest Time and Tammuz (virgin born son of Nimrods Ghost) was born on December 25th and worshipped as the sun God.

[@BustedLimbOutdoors]

In the mountains we call the fire department the "Chimney Savers" cuz by the time they get to the house, the chimney is all that is left.

[@recklesszephyr]

see this is what i love about lore lodge, every video is a two for one! i get a cool history lesson first then i hear an absolutely tragic story that’ll stay with me forever!!🙃

[@mistrjt9213]

Who else read: "The Children Who Went Up In Smoke..." and immediately knew this one is about the Sodder kids? 😄

[@mjriemen]

Absolutely! A KZbin true crime staple.

[@JJinPhila]

Even in a small town, c.1500, there could 100+ volunteer fire fighters. They tended to be very popular and even had their own bands.

[@smm855]

Honestly I've always wondered if they didn't find the remains of the kids, not because they were burned to ash, but because the police didn't look hard enough. I want to pretend that everyone searched the house remains for weeks going through anything that was bigger than a fingernail, but lets be serious...this was the early/mid 1900s and cops aren't terribly thorough. Heck, there was the Laura Bible/Ashley Freeman case where the investigators thought that the Dad had killed his wife and ran off...only for the FAMILY to find his remains in the burned out house AFTER the police had "finished" their search (and that was 1999). Part of me thinks that the cops 'looked,' and didn't see a mound of bones and just said: "Yup, they must be ash!" and while the Sodders didn't like the explanation, they took it at face value at the time and bulldozed over the site. Once they decided they couldn't let it go and needed to check for themselves, any remains were too scattered/buried for them to find in a archeological search. I really think Occam's Razor here is that police are crap at searching. I do really admire the Sodder family for their dedication to their children. Plenty of people at this time lost children on the regular and those people just moved on with their lives (usually refusing to talk about their loss), but George and Jenny were relentless with their love. I don't have an explanation for the cut phone cord other than someone intentionally was committing arson and didn't want anyone to call for help. Not sure who had it out for them.

[@jacobesterson]

I'm not sure about that man. You need to make several different assumptions in the first place for the fire to have possibly been that fierce. It's _practically_ impossible (I won't say completely) for the bodies to have been completely reduced to bones, people underestimate how hot a fire needs to burn to do that to a body and for how long. I get that police can be incompetent but there should've been very clear remains by all reasonable metrics.

[@n00bist723]

@@jacobesterson I second this all the information given about this fire would lead to the conclusion that there would be something recognizable as a body left behind and to hand wave that being missed by "crap at searching" is imo more of a stretch/assumption than the kids got abducted or weren't there for what ever reason. Like the level of crap at searching required to not find at least 1 of 5 charred corpses in the aftermath is breaching the levels of active conspiracy to not find the bodies. "It depends on the weight of the individual. For an average size adult, cremation takes from two to three hours at normal operating temperature between 1,500 degrees F to 2,000 degrees F."

[@slicktires2011]

If thatś the case, shouldn't the remains be STILL there to this day? MAybe they could find with ground penetrating radar.

[@FabricofTime]

​@slicktires2011 ground penetrating radar wouldn't work for scattered bones. It's looking for large anomalies like more solid areas or hollows. It certainly wouldn't distinguish between a bone and, say, a rock or a piece of wood. You'd need to grid off and forensically excavate, then sift the dirt from the entire pit with a screen. It would probably take several weeks minimum to do it properly. And even then, even if you found bone, there would be no way to conclusively prove that it was from the Sodder children and not bone that had come from elsewhere (like the vertebrae found) unless DNA was miraculously intact. After eighty years in the dirt, that's unlikely. That's not to say it wouldn't be interesting and if you found a LOT of bone it wouldn't be compelling, but no, ground penetrating radar would not be useful in this instance. The area is far too disturbed and the objects you'd be looking at far too small for that.

[@daredevilx0816]

The smell of burning human flesh is not only unmistakable, it's overwhelmingly strong. Regardless of which way the wind was blowing, that smell would have been distinctive and obvious. If no one smelled burning flesh, then it's because there were no humans inside the house while it burned. Period.

[@mecahhannah]

Awesome as always thanks guys! Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all who celebrate!

[@thurayya8905]

I always watch your history segments. You save me time with your own research and I appreciate that. By the way, impressive catch of your bag of coffee!

[@TraTranc]

George Sodder, a.k.a. Giorgio Soddu, was from Tula, a place here in Sardinia close to where I hail from. This said, Italian debunker Massimo Polidoro (a scholar of James Randi) postulates that they may have died in the fire and the responders either didn't recognize whatever little remains of the kids were left, or didn't want to give the family too much pain, rather leaving them in the doubt.

[@lluviathewolfgirl]

If they found the kids' remains and lied about it to the family, they are the lowest of the low, leaving the family tortured with questions for the rest of their lives.

[@TraTranc]

@@lluviathewolfgirl in hindsight, yes. But back then, and in that moment, however, they may have thought that leaving the family with the hope that their sons could still be alive somewhere, somehow, would be better than inflicting them the pain of being sure that they were all dead and they wouldn't see them again. You must remember, WW2 was just over, and the American society had had enough of mass tragedies and mourning. I can understand how a fire marshal or a Chief of local Police, seeing how that family was hoping that their children were still alive, could at the time have thought that killing that hope would have been too much for them to bear. It is also possible that, with the house burning to the ground, their remains may have easily mixed with the rubble and become unrecognizable.

[@KairiPrime]

Tell me you haven't watched the video without telling me you haven't watched the video. Because if you had, you would know that burnt human skeletal remains would have been very familiar to the first responders in question, as a nearby house had burnt down some time before and all seven people that were inside that fire were identified. It also doesn't explain all of the other weird shit surrounding the case. Like why the Sodder's phone line was cut or why they blamed it on the wiring when they just had the wiring replaced. Or why the fire chief himself told the family that there were no bodies and then later the news said that there were bodies...but the Sodders themselves combed through the remains of the house and found nothing. A house fire would not render the bodies to ash, full skeletons would still be left behind. So why was no bones ever found?

[@teaspoonsofpeanutbutter6425]

No way. It takes heat heat and hours for a body to burn, as far as I know, and even then we don't disintegrate to ash. The kids weren't there, I believe.

[@TraTranc]

@@teaspoonsofpeanutbutter6425 in that case, I second Polidoro's motion: the first responders recognized the remains but didn't tell the family, thinking that living with the hope of seeing them again someday would be better than knowing for sure that they were dead.

[@glenda9513]

I'm in WV and it's cute how you pronounced Fayetteville. Great story as usual!

[@bethluther3950]

I love the way you bring in the historical perspective/possibility of things! Thanks.

[@katrendy]

being from fayetteville myself, it’s been widely accepted around here that it was absolutely foul play with several departments and agencies involved. we have a long standing history of police corruption in fayette county and the surrounding areas, so when i first heard this story it was absolutely not shocking. my personal theory is the large Italian population (that is responsible for building most of fayetteville from the ground up) had some ties back to the government in Italy, and this was some form of debt repayment. it breaks my heart thinking about where those children ended up. if you’d like some primary source information, my grandmother knew the sodder family personally for many years. i could ask her any questions you might have and see if she has an answer.

[@Rosa-kd2cl]

Does she know more details on the discrepancy between John and George’s accounts?

[@TriskeleSun]

I came here for the Sodders and got a history lesson as a bonus! I remember the missing sign still being up when I was a little girl in the 70s, possibly into the 80s. It always made me sad. My mom grew up in Fayette County but she did not know them.

[@mikehipps1015]

I'm glad I found this channel. I've been watching for a couple months. The algorithm actually did something good for once. Merry Christmas!

[@Rick_Cleland]

The Mothman stole my catalytic converter in Point Pleasant, West Virginia.

[@Sle3pyNinj4]

So im still in the "plug" part but I had to rewind like 6 times just to hear everyone around you say "can confirm" 😂😂 y'all priceless and I love y'all. Coming from a French man, it means alot.

[@wagner5424]

I was literally reading about this case yesterday. Thanks for covering it! Love this podcast.

[@Silver_Girl178]

There was a theory-- and I seem to remember it being corroborated by people who knew the family-- that the house burned hotter and faster because there were full gas cans, for the Sodders' work trucks, kept in the basement of the house. Makes some sense, but as far as I know, I've never heard of an explosion anywhere in this story,

[@jacobesterson]

I'll copy/paste a snippet from another comment in response to this. "1500°f for 1-3 hours on average to cremate a person, after which the bones are the only thing left" Notice how even in an actual crematorium it takes several hours to burn a body to nothing but bones, and even then there're *still* bones. Plus no burning flesh smell. It's just not possible.

[@katrendy]

if this was a fire expedited by gasoline it still wouldn’t have burned hot enough to turn bones to ash. now, the speed at which the house burnt absolutely could have been caused by gasoline. my grandmother knew the sodders, so when i speak to her next i will absolutely ask her about the gas cans.

[@darth_kal-el]

No

[@TheBestVirginian]

Thank you for covering this its probably my favorite piece of Wv true crime.

[@imurgodsgod]

Your favorite? Theirs a LOT of crime down there too wow

[@callebar]

The history segments are always interesting. Your breadth of knowledge is impressive and you have a gift for narrative. Thank you for including them in some videos.

[@innawoodsbritbong253]

Was not expecting Warminster to be mentioned in a Lore Lodge video. Alien stories are a big thing here and we have a War of the Worlds style mural near the town library. We get crop circles every few years, granted those are made by enthusiasts, but you'll sometimes see strange lights out in the sky and sometimes they're not related to the Army out training on Salisbury Plain. I don't know much local history but there's a bit out there and we have a small town museum if you ever do a video on Warminster's UFOs

[@MELANIE2571]

Just absolutely fascinating to a history nerd such as myself. The whole piece about the history of Christmas had me hooked. Totally forgot I was watching a crime video 😂. Just brilliant

[@Black_Heart_Defense]

I’ve been bingeing this channel a lot lately lmao, it’s just so well done and almost always answers my ADHD fueled questions as they pop up. Have a merry Christmas Aidan’s and everyone!

[@connerbrooks5503]

An ember of suspicion. You managed to turn a pun into an actual eloquent transition. Bravo

[@jeezycreezy4220]

I think, much like the anecdote about the insurance salesman, that a lot of the things the Sodders claimed happened didn't actually happen (the guy watching the kids from the road, the incindiary grenade thing, ect.) but were instead made up in order to sensationalize the story to try to get more eyes on it, similar to the mafia thing. The hotel workers were making things up for attention, same with the bus driver (why would he not say anything about watching people throw fireballs at a house?). There are plenty of questions to be asked concerning this case, but the majority of the eyewitness accounts are unreliable at best and blatent lies at worst.

[@skyehigh2527]

I didn't realize that you were there so you know exactly what is a lie and what isn't. 😅

[@stephenshanebeaty]

​@@skyehigh2527it's called common sense

[@fredamedic2000]

Thank you for doing this episode. I live not to far from Fayetteville and I've always been Interested in this mystery and the Mad Butcher that was also 8n this area later on.

[@katrendy]

the good ol collinwood butcher. my family knew ernest gwinn very well apparently

[@farmerskeletor]

37:12 “I refuse to pronounce French “ based Aiden

[@artisticwife4889]

This case has fascinated me, as well. My only thought that hasn't already been discussed to death relates to the letter that was mailed much later. "I love brother Frankie" MIGHT not refer to a biological brother. This was an Italian CATHOLIC family. If the missing child joined a religious order (monk, priest, etc.,.) "Brother Frankie" may be the name of a fellow priest/monk. Additionally, ALIL and ILIL have a meaning in the Catholic world (at that time). ALIL was an old order organization- American Life Institute Liturgical Society. ILIL (which, I've seen the letter reported with both sets of letters) could stand for the, then, Franciscan motto of "Adoration, Love, Asking, Liturgy".

[@lilyw.719]

You're stretching, trying to create a Catholic tie-in. No religious brother anywhere is going to even be ALLOWED to go by the name of Frankie.

[@artisticwife4889]

@@lilyw.719 You apparently don't know Catholicism if you don't know that monks and friars DO. Decons and Lay Ministers, as well as priests, can be called Frankie...it's a derivative of Francis.

[@artisticwife4889]

@@lilyw.719 The “Brother” in the Catholic Church is a man who is vowed to poverty, celibacy, and obedience like any priest who is a member of a religious congregation like Holy Cross. A religious brother (abbreviated Br. or Bro.) is a member of a religious institute or religious order who commits himself to following Christ.

[@solotsotsi360]

That doesn't work... The second anagram would be "ALAL" not "ILIL" as Adrian said the letter said ...

[@coltthompson8111]

I was so swept up in Christmas lore that I totally forgot what this video was actually about.

[@chrisyoung8301]

That transition from the history lesson coming round back to the topic at hand was smooth AF.

[@mathieuleader8601]

the Soder Children case feels like a retelling of Lemony Snicket's first book in A Series of Unfortunate Events but for adults

[@deepfriedfish]

I really enjoyed your detailed description of Christmas, very informative bromigo.

[@MinecraftWorld1954]

Huh. I was expecting some thing like "The Mythology behind Santa Claus" or something befitting Christmas. But, I'm not complaining. Edit: Oh... that's the Christmas theme. Nevermind then.

[@6Haunted-Days]

Ummmm well this happened on Xmas sooooo there’s that ya know 🙄

[@FlorianMark]

Santa = Satan

[@blakejohn8374]

Please refrain from commenting In the first 5 seconds thankyou sir

[@JK-gm6kk]

​@blakejohn8374 at least he did an edit and owned up to it. I can't believe there are people who watch youtube that are unfamiliar with this case. I'm not complaining at all, because TLL makes great content and it has been covered so much for good reason

[@eclipsedPF]

​@@FlorianMarknut job

[@pixiesouter9461]

I thoroughly enjoyed the history of Christmas section. So much so that, by the end of it, I had forgotten this was about the disappearance of the Sodder children. Genuinely a fascinating little segment.

[@tarafinley2651]

One thing I’d like to point out as a southerner growing up in the Bible Belt, ‘brother’ Frankie does not necessarily mean that the person is your blood brother. The term is often used in a religious regard. Brother Frankie could have been a preacher or a fellow church goer. The term ‘sister’ can be used in the same way in addition to referring to nuns.

[@j.frassato1646]

I've been binging your videos ever since l found it a few days ago. I absolutely love everything about your videos. The way you always give history and backstories for all the cases you cover, is one of my favorite things about your videos.... I also love the way you speak about all your cases with genuine interest, and the overall feel & energy is awesome! I literally have not watched anything else besides your channel for days...& I'm sure l'll probably keep watching your videos until I've watched them all! Thank you guys for all the hard work you do on these cases. It doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated.

[@emilywalker3352]

Please make a history of the holidays series!

[@wendypotter256]

Loved the history of Christmas beginning.

[@nicolemeiner6903]

I've looked into this for probably 20 years. I've slowly grown more and more confident that the children died in the fire, but I am also very confident that the fire was arson.

[@Insidious_Rage]

No they didnt die in tje fire if no remains. House fire for 45 minutes would still leave flesh on the corpse many times.

[@Topdoggie7]

There would still be bodies. I can tell you that cremating a cat or rabbit takes hours let alone cremating a child. It also has to be hot enough to destroy bones but rarely destroys teeth entirely.

[@Insidious_Rage]

@@Topdoggie7 yeah absolutely no way they died in the fire unless authorities secretly removed remains. The bodies were burnt to ashes. Thats retarded

[@izzisart]

​​@@Insidious_RageHonestly, I wonder if it actually was 45 minutes. With all the other theorising about this case, I think it's perfectly valid to consider the fire went on for longer and the time was just misreported. Could be something as simple as the fire being put out 45 mins after the fire department showed up, but burning longer beforehand and that getting misunderstood. (Or even it taking 45 mins for the fire department to show up but the fire ends up technically burning longer after.) Because with the amount of destruction to the house itself, children aside for a moment, it's hard to imagine that being only 45 minutes- but I'm no expert, so take that with a grain of salt. It'd be something interesting to discuss with a fire expert though.

[@amandazangari9636]

So glad you covered the Sodder children! I live 30 mins from Fayetteville and my boyfriend is distantly related to them!

[@ace_r_ola]

37:17 Polish gal here, our pronunciation is in fact quite logical once you realize that letters form clusters and should not be read individually 😅 Great video, as always. This case really gets to me, and I hope it can be solved one day. The Boy in the Box got his name back, so hopefully the family's descendants can get closure one day.

[@TooLegit2Quit84]

This is one of my favorite mysteries! Excited to watch this!

[@MiniKunoichi]

I watched a video once that claimed George Sodder was known to keep extra gas for his truck in the basement. And therefore the fire could’ve burned hot enough to completely destroy the bodies. There was, of course, no source for this.

[@TheLoreLodge]

That’s the biggest problem

[@passivecactus]

This is my favorte local mystery to listen and research over and over, so glad you made a video on it

[@schlapcity2774]

I wonder if maybe the children were brain washed. The two boys mentioned at about 46:37 were 10 and 14. If, for example, they were told they had been saved from a fire and were being protected then they might be able to lie. After that, they’re still so young I feel they could feasibly be convinced and abused (either emotionally, physically or both) into repressing those memories and such of their family. If it’s a mafia thing, they could say that if they contacted their real parents it would result in their death, then they would maybe send an encrypted message.

[@greymoire3706]

My questions on this case: 1) were there any scandals going on inside the Fayetteville police at or around this time? Their unwillingness to investigate leads me to think they were somehow involved. 2) what were the dimensions of the house? This could perhaps determine the temperature as well as the acceleration of the flames. Also, what was the weather like? Dry cold, snowy, icy? These factors could also impact how hot/how quickly a house would burn down.

[@marylewis167]

Love your history segments and love your sense of humor! You are gifted! Thank you for your work!

[@Princess_Celestia_]

45 minutes for the house to burn down is a stretch. Usually takes at least an hour or longer. To burn at 45 minutes, that would have to have been one hell of a hot fire.

[@RottweilerAK]

Don't know if this was mentioned, but there have been incendiary devices like the object mentioned. They are hollow rubber, you fill it with gasoline or kerosene, cap it, light a rag wick and throw. The gasoline ignites the rubber which burns extremely hot and is very hard to put out (look up junkyard tire fires if you want to see something insane).

Your history sections are the best

[@jessedempsey4551]

To go with the grenade thing; in context it doesn't really make sense but at one point (before fire extinguishers) they had something akin to a fire extinguisher, but it was in a glass ball and a lot of them used a rubber gasket to seal it from what I remember. It was meant to be thrown into a fire and it would (in theory) douse that area with the liquid inside due to shattering. I'm wondering if he could have been referencing something like that with the grenade?

[@laurahenriksen19]

Always been perplexed by this case. Nice job ☺️

[@UnknownUser-fe5zu]

“If you do not want me to pronounce the letter, do not put it there” 😂😂😂

[@imurgodsgod]

I’ve really needed a new lore lodge video thank you

[@lizardkeeper100]

Your girlfriend Yelling "I can also confirm" made me laugh

[@katiegwynn4495]

I love this story! I was glad to get your take on it

[@Powerdweeb96]

I'm so excited you're covering this, finally I'ma hear some God tier research about this case 😭

[@staruchx]

fr its kinda undernoticed by serious reserchers on youtube i heard it only on some shitty storyteller that got few things wrong so I'm very happy that they covered this one.

[@katherinecarpenter4677]

It was so funny to hear you explain about volunteer fire depts!! My and be fore it, a neighbor's up the road a ways a year earlier burned down. We only really have volunteer fire depts. There's city too but we're so far out in a rural area that it's mostly on the volunteers. Yup, takes them awhile and yep, unless something looks screwy, it's wiring but like your guy I had just, 8 months earlier had almost the whole dang house rewired, new plumbing, the works! Still have no idea how it started and without insurance, thank goodness they didn't think it was me and being in the hospital in cancer treatment helped too. Lol but just saying it happens a lot in rural areas and it's so gone that it's hard to figure what happened.

[@rb_thebarchitect5236]

Being from Charleston WV myself, I surly do love a ol wv true crime Christmas story... 🗣️💨🎙️

[@dclark302]

I would love to be able to help with this channel, it's one of the few ones I can stick on a playlist and just listen to it while I work.

[@hillbillyhistorian1863]

As a Mountaineer myself, I was hoping you guys would cover this!

[@hillbillyhistorian1863]

Btw, Fayetteville is pronounced FAY-ette, not FYE-ette

[@katekitsune1082]

Enjoyed the history segment! The Roman Empire is my Roman Empire! As someone from WV, fascinated to learn more about the state's deep and oftentimes dark history!

[@Sarah-bd1yr]

I got a few additions concerning Saint Nicholas. In some regions of Italy, he's often depicted holding three apples, representing the three lumps of gold, or the three daughters, in one of the story you mentioned. Also, in countries that celebrate Saint Nicholas - or at least in Belgium - he's seen as a protector of children. I was only ever taught stories of him protecting children until I went to Italy once and saw a painting of him with the apples. We also see Saint Nicholas as his own "entity", completely separate from Santa Claus. These are two different, for two different holidays, on two different dates. As for Mussolini in modern Italy... I don't speak Italian, but I remember seeing a shop in Italy selling CDs with titles like "the best fascist speeches" that's definitely not something you would see in Belgium or France haha I can't imagine selling a CD with Pétain speeches on it

[@jonartifex5815]

Another banger video from the Aiden’s 😎 thanks guys!!

[@saem25]

real quick! Aiden I know you’ve got Italian blood so I feel you might want to know this - the pronunciation of Sardinia (or Sardegna) is Sar-Day-Niuh. Otherwise phenomenal video - my grandparents immigrated to America from Calabria at around the same time as the Sodders and chose to give up their citizenship to avoid stepping on any toes before and during WWII.

[@crazywarriorscatfan9061]

One of my favorite stories. I'm eager to learn more!

[@samm5111]

I'm no house fire expert by any means, but I do know a thing or two about achieving the kind of temperatures mentioned through my years of hobby blacksmithing. Those temperatures are extremely difficult to reach without two key factors: really good insulation and injection of air; this is why you cannot blacksmith on just an open wood fire and why some sort of bellows or other oxygen injection method is required. To get to that ~1400F+ range within the Sodder home within 45 minutes not only would it have to have been extremely over insulated by 1940's building code (or a hoarder situation inside with a LOT of flammable material packed tightly together), but also there would have had to have been something or someone pumping in fresh oxygen into the home faster than the fire would naturally draw oxygen in from the atmosphere to feed that growing temperature. Even then I am pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) that cremation ovens built specifically to disintegrate the entire body still leave fragments and other debris large enough to be identified. To me there is almost zero possibility of those children being in the home, especially if the fire started on the roof and the surviving children were able to escape the attic right below the flames.

[@YoungLiam74]

In my mind the only way the kids died in there is either 1) police/firefighter cover up- they found and moved the bodies before the family could see them. But this is the least believable considering the amount of people needed and the family never giving up hope- what i mean by that is if it were true the people covering it up would have had to ignore the family the rest of their lives. It just doesn't seem likely. or 2) the investigation was poorly done and the bodies were there but not found, and that the site was disturbed too many times. I don't believe this but i do feel the father inadvertently made it harder to solve by filling and then excavating the site.

[@staruchx]

Oh I'm happy that you finally covered this topic let ssee if this will be common lore W

[@chriscavy]

I'm endlessly fascinated by this case; I'm glad you covered it. Thanks for the great content.

[@chuyvee505]

Absolutely LOVE this Channel 👌