Did the Michigan State Police Cover Up a Murder?

[@godwarrior3403]

As far as the title, I'm from Michigan, and in tenth grade we had a state boy come in and talk to the class. Someone made a joke about corruption, and the cop said "There's a lot of corruption in Michigan... A lot." He went into damn near a thousand yard stare where I put the "..." A couple years ago, some cops in Newaygo county arrested a woman and her bf on some drug stuff. There were two cops. The bf managed to escape and run off. When the cop who ran after him caught him and returned, the gf had been shot twice in the back of the head, while handcuffed. It was ruled a suicide. The answer to the question is yes, but maybe not in this specific case.

[@williams2187]

I mean Detroit has been full of corruption for the last 40 years, probably longer. But yeah unfortunately it permeates throughout our entire state

[@jameskazd9951]

can i get some more info on that second story, like what i should type into a search engine to find it

[@JudgeNicodemus]

Christ...

[@southphillylilly]

The flagrancy is mind blowing.... they're not even trying to hide it anymore

[@suziecarr1566]

Wtf! I wonder how many suicides in the us are really cover ups for murders

[@eveninglyric687]

I think the fact that the dogs tracked him to a highway and then the trail went cold could possibly be the fact that yes dogs are sometimes unreliable but it's also possible that he walked that way and got tired and started hitchhiking or even someone just pulled over when they saw him walking and offered him a ride and he accepted and then that person did something not very nice

[@bunnylebowski4465]

Thats exactly my thoughts. He must have been alive for some weeks somewhere and was drugged and somehow he died,wether it be OD, murder, both, etc, and was left in the lake. Absolutely tragic😢 definitely sounds like foul play

[@bholdr----0]

@@bunnylebowski4465 That seems likely. (especially re: the drugs. And I mean, yeah, he WAS loaded, willfully or not, and when he died; he did it lit up on an 'heroic' dose, apparently... Then, someone did something bad, and later there was an accident/overdose/fight/flight, etc; A panic or poor decision ensues and his body was put in the lake... I dunno what the timeline really was, and it's likely it won't ever be known. So- IMHO and experience, the best bet is likely on an unfortunate guy (who was found with a lot of *wink-wink in their system) probably died, and sometime later, ended up in the lake. (OR, the explanation could be as prosaic as his body being found by a landowner or bunch of teenagers, who decided: 'EFF THAT! I am NOT gonna etc, (again): I'm on parole/busy/an asshole/don't care, etc)!' Cheers. (so it goes, I suppose. Sry for uncompleted responsr)

[@maccrackin7026]

Who gets tired walking a mile and a half ? Specially a 22 yo kid.

[@killernyancat8193]

​@@maccrackin7026I do. And I'm 18

[@eveninglyric687]

@@maccrackin7026 I don't know, I could do it (as a 22 yr old actually lol) but I'm not gonna assume anything- maybe he had had a long day before the party? it's also possible that it wasn't that he was hitchhiking cuz he was tired maybe he was just walking and someone pulled over and said hey kid you want a ride ( which I feel like happens a lot in small towns) and he accepted? Idk it was just a theory

[@meganelyse8173]

Psychiatrist here- just a minor note about the medications. Amitriptyline and desipramine are both tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs). Normally not the type of thing I’d comment on, but overdosing on even one of those and you risk cardiac arrest. It’s why they aren’t prescribed as commonly as SSRIs and SNRIs; the risk of death is far higher in overdose. From PubMed article: “Tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) overdoses had higher rates of hospitalization (78.7 vs. 64.7% hospitalized) and much higher fatality rates than did SSRI overdose reports (0.73 vs. 0.14% mortality)” Anyway, love your channel, and if you ever need info on psych meds for a video, feel free to reach out!

[@RebeccaGreen-jt3qk]

My son in law drown in Lake Michigan. His body wasn't found for a week. His body couldn't even be dressed and obviously had to have a closed casket. This was from what water and decomposition does in the water. How the police or corinor couldn't realize this guy hadn't been in the water for 3 weeks/nonths is beyond me. There wouldn't be hardly anything left to identify him after months in the water

[@Backwoods_Squatch]

The Great Lakes are very cold, especially at the bottom. Bodies tend to not decompose, because bacteria doesnt grow on them. Its cold in Michigan, sometimes, 7 or 8 months a year. In Superior, there are 200 year old bodies that can be seen in shipwrecks. "Superior it is said, never gives up her dead.."

[@getoutofmyface]

@@Backwoods_Squatch But this was not one of our Great Lakes. This was a normal lake out in the woods, and the smaller size means it would get plenty warm in summer. A three week old corpse out in that lake probably shouldn't even be recognizable anymore.

[@Sheriden.]

@@getoutofmyface it’s not connected but one our lakes in Wa state turns people into soap.

[@nervosadustbolt9642]

If it's being investigated by Canadian Police... That explains everything. At least, for us Canadian's. Ineptitude to the max to say the least. haha

[@jonathonholifield3166]

They knew it hadn't, they just didn't care

[@paisley1134]

Believe me, I was born and raised in Michigan 60 years ago and I am telling you to look at how many unsolved murders, cold cases, missing people in Michigan. It’s way to many, just count them.

[@mxmeseeks]

and some of the cases get so little coverage and are within a small area. tamara and iris perez are just gone somehow and no one is talking about it

[@unripetheberrby6283]

Yeah.. and some of them are from gangs it seems

[@Fido-vm9zi]

You are referring to different cases across different areas & jurisdictions. There are legal & technical challenges, which probably vary wildly depending on each case.

[@michael.cschrubbe5879]

​@mxmeseeks my friends Shalyn Manson, and before her, our friend Michelle Packard has been murdered and and nobody is even talking about them! We're pretty sure Michelle fiancée Mark didn't commit suicide that next year! His 5 yr old daughter was holding Michelle's hand on the fourth of July in front of over 100,000 people and no arrest has been made in either murder!

[@redlinemotorworks7193]

It’s alarming at the mild end of it, and completely ENRAGING towards the further end

[@wintersking4290]

My Minnesota Ojibwe college roommate told me that he thought their ancestors had encountered the Vikings. We were both huge history nerds so it was a lot of fun so we had tons of fun talking about all kinds of stuff.

[@TheLoreLodge]

I’m definitely gonna give it a look

[@wintersking4290]

@@TheLoreLodge sorry for the random double typed bit in the last one I'm at work listening to this.

[@UtubeH8tr]

What the fuck does that have to do with this murder?

[@scottsmanonahorse]

@@TheLoreLodge This was always my interpretation of our history, but you did a great job covering our history for sure.

[@stauker.1960]

​@@TheLoreLodge this video was really good. Vikings meet native Americans, native Americans make a prophecy after invoking 7, and we get teased with another pattern to explore.

[@sesameoil0009]

Honestly you don't have to talk about the Native Americans that used to live in the area and the history of the area but I personally really like it, it is really fascinating. Thank you.

[@nunyabusiness5790]

It's always an unexpected pleasure to hear so much history, eh?!

[@somethingclever8916]

I love regional history but unless it took place back than I dont really need to know its history when it's a modern turn crime. It would be like doing true crime that happened in Germany and covering last 2500 years. Native history is important but it was well over 10 minutes before the "true crime" was covered.

[@tylerdavis3]

@@somethingclever8916 then watch someone else. That’s literally the best part of the lore lodge.

[@BrokensoulRider]

The regional history was brought up because of how odd things happen in the area more than likely. You'd be surprised how many things can happen in a lot of the older regions that have a lot of ancient feet on them.@@somethingclever8916

[@sesameoil0009]

@@somethingclever8916 I do get where you're coming from. I personally enjoy both history and true crime so the regional background is a plus for me.

[@Saturn_13]

“The Michigan state police say there is absolutely zero evidence of foul play.” . . . “They are wrong.” Best cold open I think I’ve ever heard on KZbin EVER. 😂

[@AGVii]

I wanna say thank you "miigwetch" for actually putting your time into our culture! It was awesome coming for a true crime but also getting some appreciation! Miigwetch, man

[@AintImRite]

Miigwetch 🤗

[@oof313]

Excellent video, but I have a minor correction: Both amitriptyline and desipramine are tricyclic antidepressants, not SSRIs or SNRIs. The point still stands that they are dangerous to combine, and that even people taking them as prescribed should not be drinking as they can react badly with alcohol.

[@dawnrowlands2408]

Regarding the odd drownings. In Manchester, UK there have been a series of them. In the period between 2007 and 2021, 77 young men have been recovered, drowned from the Manchester Ship Canal. The police have consistently said its just due to them being drunk and falling in the water. This has been dubbed 'The Pusher'. One case, the young man was on the phone whispering and then screamed. As if he was trying to hide and was attacked. Several parts of the canal are very dark and have plenty of places for a potential assailant to hide. Maybe some are accidents, but for the police to discount all cases is really odd. Love your videos.

[@Enoo-Wynn]

14 years, 77 drownings? Honestly? Even if they weren't murdered, it sounds like there needs to be railings, lights and security cameras, (and no missed spots). Is anyone trying to do anything about it?

[@dawnrowlands2408]

@@Enoo-Wynn In parts, the council put up temporary barriers but it really doesn't seem to be a priority, sadly. Lots of the tow path has no barrier at all as well as no lighting so is pretty dodgy.

[@TheWorkmonkey1]

Source?

[@dawnrowlands2408]

@@TheWorkmonkey1 News reports from the city. All you have to do is Google it. It's something that is pretty commonly known about here.

[@Sarah-km4uq]

There is a documentary about it, and living here like the commenter it is 100% true. Mostly preyed on gay men in the gay village

[@coders1786]

This sounds like those 2 boys who were murdered by the police on train tracks after they found a dead drop cocaine package. You guys should cover that story actually there’s some weird cover ups in that one

[@draydengeorge7853]

Wendigoon has a great video about that but I'd love to see the lore lodges iteration. Both great channels

[@southphillylilly]

@@draydengeorge7853 do you have a title or a name the case is referenced by?

[@Laura-ei4fs]

​@@southphillylilly the boys on the tracks & a 35 year cover-up

[@vict4451]

​@@southphillylillyWendigoon's is called "The Boys On The Tracks and A 35 Year Cover Up"

[@WideAwakeHuman]

The one in Arkansas back when Clinton was governor?

[@JimmieHammel]

My husband takes Amitriptyline and the first day he started it, he slept eighteen hours straight, and I had to shake him repeatedly to finally wake him up. That nasty side effect only lasted 2 days, but that was at a therapeutic, starting dose level. A large dose, combined with another anti-depressant would be massively debilitating, and would definitely make it difficult to stay awake.

[@kingjoseph5901]

Yup I used to sleep 14 hours on Zyprexa, f*ck that stuff. Glad i was able to get off of it as i dont actually need it.

[@RighteousBuns]

I would like to add that they're both tricyclic antidepressants, often referred to as the first generation of antidepressants. That is to say the side effects are more severe in them than in "second generation" antidepressants like SSRIs. When I started taking ssri antidepressants, I felt super tired for about a week, maybe two I don't remember, but I wasn't sleeping 18 hours tired...

[@abigailxmary]

Ive been taking amitriptyline for years now for pain and insomnia at 40mg, but when i was first put on it, my starting dose was 75mg. I literally could not walk straight, i had to hold on to the walls in my house. I was slurring when talking, and it made my jaw so tight, but the sleep was so good... i came off it after a couple of months because i enjoyed the downer effects of it too much and essentially started abusing it. Tricyclic antidepressants are no joke, they're so addictive. They're not routinely prescribed as an antidepressant for a reason lmao

[@Living_EDventures]

I take that for neuropathy. I only take 25mg.

I took amitriptyline as well. Did nothing in regards to making me sleepy. Everyone is different.

[@jayway8945]

Thank you for covering this story. I live 20 minutes away from Todd. I was a year behind him in school but knew him well and played football on the same team. He was the stereotypical jock that thought he was better then others that didn't wear Abercrombie. I wouldn't call him a bully or anything like that but he for sure was not an angel by any means. He did NOT deserve to be killed though! This whole case shook Ravenna. The town he went to school in. Casanova is an outer range town of Ravenna pretty much. We still have no idea what happened to Todd and it's only through channels like yours that still give us hope it will be solved one day. Thank you so much again! We all miss you Todd. Especially April..

[@TheLoreLodge]

Is there anything or anyone you could think of that might have had reason to hurt him?

[@jayway8945]

No. Not like that. I mean, we were just kids in a small town. We all have people that we don't get along with but nothing like that. We have actually have had many deaths here. People we were in school with. I can think of at least 6 just off the top of my head. Some car accidents, some drugs, some just never come back. That's why I was always thinking someone hit him or something like that.

[@golem550]

​@@TheLoreLodge I'm from Grand Haven -- a town a fair bit south of Ravenna. The town does have a drug problem. Every few years a meth lab gets busted, and it's possible the guy ran across something. With this one we can really only speculate, considering the police did such a poor job investigating. The whole thing is just bizarre. There's nothing that adds up. You would think that with him walking down the road and his trail disappearing that he would have gotten into a car (willing or no), but then he calls a friend and says he's lost in a field. It's pretty clear he was held captive by someone for a time. The whole thing is a puzzle, and one we'll probably never get the answers to unless someone comes in with new information.

[@ragnardanneskjold7675]

I almost wonder if he accidently overdosed and maybe the land owners panicked and kept him somewhere until eventually dumping him in the lake.

[@golem550]

@@ragnardanneskjold7675 If he did it would probably show up on toxicology. His friends did vouch for him and say he didn't do drugs, but that might just be to cover for him and protect his memory (and themselves, considering people rarely do that kind of stuff alone). I could see something similar happening in a number of situations, though. If it happened accidentally someone would probably want to cover it up if they were liable.

[@dakotahutchens1634]

It doesn’t have to be a cover up that level of incompetence should warrant a investigation in and of itself

[@BrassSpectacles]

As a Michigan native....yeah. And as for law enforcement I think it's universal that they don't want to share because they don't want it exposed that they either did a bad/lazy job, they did something highly illegal [like killing someone in custody], or that they're trying to cover up something supernatural/paranormal. And really the first two are like 90% of why they won't talk, and Michigan state police specifically are just a bunch of morons. I've had to deal with them a few times and in this case I highly believe that they know exactly what happened they just can't be bothered to do their jobs and/or they were involved in some capacity and don't want it known, which explains why they went to such lengths to erase information from the internet as best they can and you had to use the Wayback Machine to find stuff. A wild theory that comes from my uncle who is a lawyer; the night of the party Todd got arrested and no one knew, because police don't have to tell anyone and likely denied him a phone call or the ability to let anyone know he'd been arrested. It's likely he died in jail and they intentionally dosed him and then to cover it up they threw him into the lake and left him there. My uncle has had clients who claim they were arrested and held for weeks without being able to tell anyone and were considered 'missing' until they were finally either released or charged so he thinks this isn't a big leap in Todd's case. I'm not fully convinced, but I think that it's at least a possibility.

[@Transilvanian90]

Sounds quite possible. Mix ineptitude, malevolence and a lack of transparency and accountability and you can have a potentially deadly - and terrifying - cocktail. Just look at how a lot of the people arrested for January 06 are being treated, years of solitary without trial, and you'll realize that this isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

[@wirelessone2986]

Omg

[@generaleerelativity9524]

Was this the same case where he was on the phone with his parents(?) and the last words they heard him say was "oh shit" before they heard a weird noise and the sound of him running before the phone cut off or am I thinking of a different person?

[@DanielSMV805]

​@@generaleerelativity9524completely different guy

[@mike2312p]

Hell yea dude. Thanks man

[@bl00sadr]

The only reason for this terrible setup with the body and beer cans is if someone who had authority told them "Do it like this and I can cover it up." That's the only way this works. This has to implicate someone in the Michigan State Police in a drug ring or something. There is no other reason to attempt such a bad staging at so late a date. It's just 100% where this leads.

[@agdoren]

But where was he held for upwards of 15 days with no injuries until he was murdered?

[@bl00sadr]

@@agdoren In a coma. In a fridge. Do we have detailed coroner's records to know those fine details? Maybe they kept him chained in a barn after he saw them doing a deal, waiting to hear from a connected uncle or cousin about how to deal with him.

[@near--zero]

scary how plausible this is. 100%. @@bl00sadr

[@crimsonking440]

This right here is why our justice system requires evidence

[@jjoohhhnn]

​@@agdorenthis kid was a part of a ring, and they voted him out in the worst way. People with more seniority than him picked him up and he knew them and wanted to cooperate in hopes of getting freed, probably. Cause he thought they liked him, or his silver tongue could save him. That part of Michigan is 30 minutes from Grand rapids, but also 15 minutes away from an economic dead zone that isn't talked about anywhere. There's a lot of crime out there, and with towns so small they end up as one horse towns, people end up scared to talk. They know there's 3 layers of corrupt officials before they get any sort of access to a functional justice system, so they stay silent.

[@Malenkia]

In the beginning of the video this sounded a lot like the disappearance of Brandon Swanson near Marshall, MN. Left a party, got "lost" on a road he knew like the back of his own hand, and last words heard were "Oh shit!" on the phone with his Dad and then line went dead. His car was found no where near where he thought he was. And they have found no sign of him or what happened last I heard. But there's some sketchy stuff in it and *surprise* a lack of local police doing their job.

[@crimsonking440]

Pretty sure theres a lore lodge video about that

[@mraemartinez]

Yep. Totally related.

[@Red-jt6uu]

There is.

[@jongutierrez9116]

Could the police look up the prescription logs of the drugs in the surrounding area?

[@Red-jt6uu]

@@jongutierrez9116 Every state has a monitoring program for controlled substances. Considering SSRIs and SNRIs are not considered controlled substances, they would probably have to search records of individual pharmacies which I would imagine they would consider too much work and not worth their time.

[@Luis-vx1tx]

Daily reminder to never talk to police without a lawyer. They're not your friends and assume they're always on duty.

...and if their lips are moving, they're probably lying.

[@TonyTheCarrot]

Even worse, they are not legally bound to tell the truth when pressing for info.

[@stevenhard3961]

I was one of the searchers. Todds cell phone was found out in a field no where near where the POND where his body was found. Todd owed a drug dealer around 800.00 and the dealer was coming to meet Todd to collect at the bonfire site. Todd had sold his car to the dealer or to pay the dealer. The dealer was part of a supposed Baby Faced Gang. The area of interest was north of Casnovia on a curve near the lake. The suspicion was that Todd left party early to avoid the dealer. The key area for me was the intersection on M37 just b4 the curve that a side street that goes a group of lake houses. When my wife was walking the rail road tracks by that intersection a guy in a newer black pickup parked and was glaring at her so much she screamed for me.I was below her looking in the brushy area between M37 and the RR Tracks. I came up at a trot and went to my wife and took a couple steps toward the truck. The guy was very angry and peeled out. Then the guy kept driving back and forth. The area between M37 and the RR tracks south of the side street is very brushy and has some deep areas. My theory is that the dealer picked up Todd at the intersection and that Todd and an altercation happened along the RR tracks south of said intersection. The guy in the black pickup DIDNT want us searching that area and was trying to intimidate us OUT of that area. We notified the Police but... My firm belief is that Todds wallet or keys or SOMETHING the black truck guy didnt want ANYONE to look there.

[@PhoenicopterusR]

That just sounds like typical black pickup driver behaviour, honestly. Nothing out of the ordinary there.

[@renadamTWELVE]

No drug dealer would leave the guy unscathed if he owed them cash.

[@victory8928]

@@renadamTWELVE that is if the dealer used means that would have left marks

[@AngelfromGenX]

*Don't apologize for repeating* - I appreciate you keeping those points refreshed & carrying them along with the story.

[@DetroitYugo]

Me vaguely skimming the title: "yay, something about my state of Michigan!" Me actually comprehending the title: "oh no"

[@m7dd1222]

exactly my train of thought lmao

[@unripetheberrby6283]

Yeah, same ^^'

[@Amandavg]

I agree this is most definitely foul play. I disagree that there may have to be 2 perpetrators because of the meds. I have been prescribed similar medications at separate times and thus had medications you wouldn’t prescribe together in my possession at the same time. Alternatively, the person could have taken the meds from someone else, family member, roommate, or even a previous victim if this wasn’t the first time they did something like this. Thank you for calling out the Michigan state police and spreading this case to try and get the family justice they deserve!

[@oof313]

My thoughts exactly re: the medication. I was about to comment that myself.

[@TRUMPeterswan1624]

nobody takes some1 elses anti depressants, and no todd was not on them. the pigs did this

[@XXMatt0040XX]

(Purely educational comment. Not arguing against how someone could have those meds. But I have a lot of insight into this and I firmly believe I'm qualified to state these things with confidence. Zero vitriol aimed at OP, it's all aimed at doctors/psychiatrists.) TL;DR: Doctors *absolutely will* prescribe you dangerous cocktails without any thought. And that needs to have a light shined on it. Doctors don't actually know what they're doing with SSRIs. I'm sorry, but they're not keen on the pharmacology. I have had to read the research papers myself because of the amount of times different doctors have done what I can only call malpractice. Naturally I have to hide that, because *knowledge* toward these drugs is how you get your name listed as a drug seeker. This is why a lot of people do hard drugs btw... These drugs that are "not prescribed together," it's not like... a rule. There's no laws about it. And many don't know about pharmacology, don't care about you, and want you out of their office. Many just want their paycheck. It's 100% believable for someone to be prescribed both. And that boils my blood... Serotonin Syndrome isn't a thought in a *lot* of their minds. Most want you to shut up and leave. And if you don't, they'll give you an antipsychotic; and then up the doses again and again. I recently had to beg someone I knew to get their medication put back to her original dose, because her doctor upped one of those meds. I actually had been prepared for her to begin suffering from the effects after finding out (Abilify btw.) Point being for anyone who's not knowledgeable on psych medications, you need to do your own research, and you need to keep in mind that doctors are *very happy* to give you the "shut up" drugs. And never, EVER, accept the painkiller "Tramadol" if you're on antidepressants. Tramadol is considered a "light" painkiller; it's an opioid but not as stigmatized, so it's prescribed more. What doctors don't know is that Tramadol is also an SNRI, and is extremely dangerous. You can, and likely will, develop Serotonin Syndrome from that. Doctors almost got my grandma killed because of it.

[@garmmermibe5397]

Doesn't really need to be said again, but yeah, I don't think the two medicines has to point to 2 people. As someone else already stated, docs will actually still give you "non-compatible" medicines. And even if they don't, it's possible for people to keep them stashed. For my own experience, I actually kept some prescription antibiotics. And yeah, I know you're supposed to keep taking the entire regimen until every pill is gone. But I didn't. I purposely kept some extra in the event I needed them. Lo and behold, I actually used them recently after being bitten by a baby bobkitten. It had been about 4 years since I'd gotten them. And while I've heard they degrade over time, especially if they're in a syrupy solution, mine were in dried pills and still seemed pretty potent even after the 4 years as the swelling from the bite went down fairly quickly after taking them. I imagine similar is possible with antidepressants. And it wouldn't be hard for someone to switch medication while still keeping spares from the old prescription either consiously or unconsciously. From there, all they'd have to do is stumble across them later or remember they'd kept some.

[@daytripper1023]

Yeah, it seems like a pretty incredible leap of logic to say that the two medications implies multiple people being involved in his death, or that they would have some kind of connection to the medical field to get both. There are also substances that would be far more effective if someone was actually looking to take his life with them. A lot of the evidence does seem to suggest foul play, but then it seems like a lot of liberties are taken in order to try to make everything fit into the larger narrative of the smiley face killers

[@twizlemofficial7326]

26:10 Quick correction since I never saw it mentioned: Neither medications are SSRIs or SNRIs. They are both tricyclic antidepressants.

[@chrisbarbour6085]

I'm from Muskegon County and I can honestly say that the Muskegon county police are corrupt as can be. And as far as Tony Tague, he's one of the biggest corrupt officials in that town! The best thing I ever did was leave that place!

[@BlondeWick]

Ah... West Coast of MI, where there's no one to see you bury your problems like the East.

[@bostownent4816]

I live in a small Village in Michigan. In 2014 my cousin left The only bar and began walking home down M21. He got hit and killed. 4 different vehicles ran and dragged him. Michigan State Police took over the case and 9 yrs later still no arrests despite knowing 2 out of the 4 drivers identities and both were drinking all night in same bar. MSP SUCKS ASS.

[@Transilvanian90]

The levels of incompetence are staggering... makes you wonder if some of those drivers were their friends or something.

[@settame1]

This happens a lot. Hit and runs are difficult cases unless it’s pretty cut and dry. I know Cold Justice covered one where there were about 10 people who all had notice to kill the person, may have been able to do it without the car being damaged (they couldn’t seize the care because they never had enough for a search warrant). They thought they were getting close then the one witness they had mentioned a semi driving through town he’d never seen before or since (quite common) and they decided because of that statement it didn’t matter how much they had on the people they thought were involved, there was reasonable doubt in their mind that it was them. The semi may have hit the girl in that case and not even known.

[@debmcgowan100]

No justice 😢

[@judybrennan7930]

Damn im sorry to hear tht

[@Julzsavedandsetapart]

My friends baby daddy was walking to see his baby on Stanton rd. Got hit and killed by a motorcycle. No arrest... Supposedly there was enough evidence to know that it was a motorcycle. But not enough to give the public any info to go on? I had another friend who was killed and never found the killer. Sonny has passed on now without knowing who killed her daughter. Her daughter was a Roller Derby player. The team went to Chicago. Next thing ya know her body was found in an abandoned building. No information at all. Always blew smoke up her butt when Sonny would ask about the case, 'We are working on it!'

[@jf4694]

This is my hometown. I remember this vividly, though I was a kid. I hunt very near to this area and remember looking for him out there with my dad

[@bennygonzales7203]

This is so similar to my experience! I use to hunt on the fields right behind the apple orchard buildings near half moon lake my name is actually spray painted under that bridge next that park where I swear it got flipped from one wall to the other idk how but that's not important just proof I live there it's in blue lettering with orange and black accents to it but me and my dad would here the wildies radio chatter while hunting I need to ask him if he ever poked around with them about that case

[@bennygonzales7203]

This area is right on the boarder of basically no mans land even today it is rural like back in the early 2000s no cell signal hardly any cameras house very few and far between and LOTS of trees

[@scarmoon9395]

My only other suggestion about having those two different antidepressants that SHOULDN'T be prescribed together: I had to go through several different SSRIs before I found the right one for me, that's the only other way I could see someone get access to both who ISN'T a pharmacist

[@holliecrawford2647]

I’m so glad you said it cause I was thinking the same thing but didn’t want too sound like I have access too a bunch of these drugs 😂😂😂😂

[@mikebond6328]

@@holliecrawford2647whatchu got?

[@mo_diddley]

@@holliecrawford2647 😂 I’ve been medicated for 10+ years, I feel you. This is absolutely a recipe for serotonin syndrome 🥴

[@holliecrawford2647]

😂😂😂 right along that crazy trail with you mo

[@thatsickkidjaz1749]

Yep, personally I take ADHD meds and when I've had to change meds I have had multiple types of ADHD meds at once (of course I dont take them both), I was thinkink maybe it was someone who changed meds in the middle or beginning of a month and had some left over from that.

[@KeepingupwithpapaLuci]

Nice coverage by the way being a Native American from the Lakota Sioux tribe it's nice hearing you share information about the different tribes ❤

[@michaellorah9051]

The unfortunate part of Todd's phone call saying "im in a field." Is that 90% of that area is fields. Hardly narrows down what field he was in.

[@llsher5210]

So I'm curious, what kind of field (like what type of agriculture e.g.), or what does a field look like in that area of Michigan? I have close relatives who are pretty much due west of grand rapids in Wisconsin whom I've visited many times and they own acreage, but I'm from Oklahoma myself and their "fields" look MUCH different than ours. Is it in the realm of possibility to get lost in a field in that area? In Oklahoma, it's really not, unless you pass out prone in the field and then no one can see you. We don't have much agriculture (or trees) where you wouldn't have a clear line of sight in every direction even smack in the middle of a field. At least in mid-northern Ok. And we're nearly always on a grid system, including country dirt roads so you could pick N/S/E/W start walking and end up on a road pretty quickly. You might have to walk a while to reach any kind of civilization but I'm from a smaller town than the one in the video and I don't know a single peer or friend who wouldn't have known where they were within many miles of our town (I am from the pre cell phone before adulthood generation though). It's hard for me to imagine a small town local "getting lost" in a field but my terrain and experience may be very different than MI.

[@asphalt6335]

I work as a pharmacy tech for walgreens, and I told my pharmacist a bit about this case because of the drugs, and he said that we’ve moved away from using those drugs as antidepressants because they cause tremors, so now they’re used more for anxiety, insomnia, and chronic pain, I doubt that changes anything but I thought it was interesting.

[@taylorcoloske7366]

I live in Michigan, and this case has fascinated me for years, really glad to see it getting more exposure.

[@Dan-ee4bv]

From the area, lived near Casnovia around this time. You did great describing the surrounding areas and seem like you have done some legit research.....impressive.

[@willymunksby7518]

I find it super cool that you talk alot about the indigenous cultures within the region, not alot of other youtubers put the effort into telling the whole story like that

[@dmal4738]

as a michigan resident thank you for including all of the information about the native americans in the area and history. it should not be forgotten!

[@Nevermore-Nevermore]

I’m taking one of the medications that were found in Todd Geib’s system, and I can attest to the fact that they make you really out of it. I could easily see someone getting lost on a simple walk while on it. I also want to point out that those medications can prescribed for things other than depression. Mine, for example, is for a neurological issue and I’ve seen people who take it as a sleep medication.

[@bunnylebowski4465]

I wonder still if those meds were prescribed to him or were completely unrelated to him yet found in his system , maybe i missed the part he explained it but it certainly seems fishy

[@cedriczedric]

They could also have been prescribed to multiple people within the same household, which provides easy access. It wouldn't even be that difficult to just nab a couple pills from another household. It's entirely possible someone wasn't even thinking about the what the pills were actually for when/if they stole them. Somebody could have offered pills and lied about what they did. Todd Geib's death could have been the result of idiocy and/or negligence rather than homicide. Dosing someone with two different prescriptions and forcing them to drink alcohol seems like a roundabout and inefficient method of murder; I personally think it's more likely that the death itself was unintentional. Regardless, there was definitely a crime and distinct lack of proper investigation (in my opinion).

[@lillytarry1424]

​@bunnylebowski4465 they weren't prescribed to him, and they aren't prescribed together, so it would have to be 2 people's prescriptions uess it was someone with access to the meds (doctor, nurse, pharmacist etc)

[@Slzfs]

amitriptyline can cause visual distortion and a ‘high’ if you don’t sleep when you take it- as in push past the drugs effects and your own tiredness.

[@lunarlightasmr4660]

Couple the effects of those meds with alcohol, and definitely

[@Athlynne]

Bravo, Aidans, another thoughtful and skillful dive into a case that's perplexed me, including info I didn't know. Thank you.

[@JudgeNicodemus]

I believe in the saying, "Do not ascribe to malice that which can be explained with incompetence", but if this had feds crawling around my glow-o-meter would hve been going off the charts. My pig-o-meter on the other hand is fully functional and hitting max.

[@butitssummerma6436]

Constance Snyder of Kalkaska micjigan had a very similar fate. The police were called to an apartment complex to someone fighting, Constance disappeared in a mile walk home and found just beyond a tree line, in town dead in a creek. The police over and over said we shouldn’t search. She was later found in the frozen creek. A child was sliding in the ice and slid over her body. I watched police walk all around that area with dogs. The town thinks she was hit and drug off the path

[@TheHoneyBadger-yh5vj]

Sad but true, 😢😢😢

[@Julzsavedandsetapart]

Is this case from mid 90s? I remember some girl was found and they said they were looking for a small light blue car. Fife Lake is known for pagan rituals.

[@Em-nd9vm]

honestly i’ve grown to love your channel in the past week ofc i love content like this but i love how you talk abt native history because i think if you’re assuming something abnormal if anyone would know it’s them and their history

[@sotnos1125]

Vanishing for weeks, then dying in a body of water reminds me a lot of Hannah Upp. She experienced a disocosiative fugue and was found in water not once, but twice before her ultimate disapearance where it's suspected she once again went into a fugue state and started living an entirely new life in the midst of two massive hurricanes which either helped "hide" her as she likely would have gotten on a rescue boat under an entirely different name without being even slightly aware that she was Hannah Upp or, after they found her car by her favourite beach, she went swimming and much like the first two times, began to drown. Only this time there was no one around to get her out of the water and a hurricane dragged any evidence of her far out to sea.

[@Johnniebhoy83]

Yeah, I just watched a video on Hannah Upp. It's crazy that all 3 times she disappeared were in September.

[@princessinmittens4783]

I wonder if he got arrested or put in the ''drunk tank'', died in police custody and they eventually dumped him there because they didn't want a lawsuit?...Or he stumbled across someone and they pumped him full of drugs and then dumped him after death?

[@agdoren]

But what about that time gap? His body wasn't decomposed enough for him to have died the night he disappeared and he doesn't have any injuries that suggests he was held sometime for upwards of 15 days.

[@chrism4008]

You cant put someone in a drunk tank and have zero inmates encounter them at least in passing. If he had been locked up there would be other inmates that had already come forward to try and gather some leverage on his own case or trying to gain clout. This is coming from experience, having been in multiple drunk tanks and county jails myself, in several counties of michigan. There are very very few hidden spaces within a jail, and inmate workers see literally everything that happens everywhere, every time

[@princessinmittens4783]

@@chrism4008 you're right. I honestly didn't think of that. All I do know is there was definitely something bad going on and definitely a cover up for some reason

[@princessinmittens4783]

@@agdoren That's true. And it does seem like he was cared for in some way. Like he wasn't malnourished from what it sounds like. But why kidnap,, care for someone for 15 days only to kill and then dump them. That's the part that gets me

[@ronfox5519]

Had he grown a beard? Was he shaving during the missing 2 weeks? Hair continues to grow after we die. At least that's what they say on tv.

[@number3766]

Basically, the dude took meds that aren't prescribed together for health and liver issues, have the opposite effect of party drugs, should NEVER be mixed with alcohol, double to triple dosed the usual maximum of 200mg, at a dosage that would at least have left him catatonic if not dead when combined with ANY alcohol, drank and partied for awhile without the ill effects of vomiting, passing out, stroke, death, ect, walked through dense thornbushes without a single scratch, dry drowned, didn't get infested with bugs ON A LAKE IN SUMMER and was ruled an accidental death? The LAPD gotta take some notes!

[@TheLoreLodge]

Yes, how could you ever think it was foul play?

[@Stroggoii]

Everyone is "generally well liked" once they're dead. Aren't they?

[@SavShanae]

I just found your account, but I really love and appreciate the Native American history you add to your stories! Thanks for sharing 💛

[@wintersking4290]

Aidan, there have been dozens of weird drownings of young college aged men in Minneapolis and St Paul Minnesota over decades. You hear about new ones every winter, even though in a lot of them the only way they could have ended up in the Mississippi River is if they fell several hundred feet off a pedestrian bridge over the river. But the bodies aren't reported as having that kind of damage. Either it's really bad reporting or maybe something else, but it could be worth looking into.

[@Richard-j3z]

Lacrosse Wisconsin has a number of them as well many with strange circumstances there's an investigator who believes he's worked out a pattern that follows the I-90 corridor

[@Malenkia]

I94 Corridor missing persons is a LOOOOOONG list, there's some up by St. Cloud, and St. Joseph/Collegeville - which is home of St. Johns University, which has a history all in itself of hiding pedophiles, missing people, paranormal, and other wonderful things *LOL* My Kid went to the Prep school on the same campus and the stories are so many.

[@Echo_the_half_glitch]

Either that or Kelpies are real and are only after young men?

[@Richard-j3z]

@@Malenkia yeah they appear to happen in almost every college town along the corridor the investigator that thinks it's a serial killer thinks it may be a woman or a couple there was one in lacrosse where a guy walked out onto the ice and fell through but there was tracks from a dog that went out but never came back but didn't get near the hole that he was alleged to have fallen into which is weird af

[@Richard-j3z]

There seems to be one almost every year in lacrosse

[@JabbaDesiljic]

As a native Newfoundlander, I find your theory that natives from Newfoundland may have contacted the native groups discussed in this video,to be quite fascinating. You see, the main indigenous group in Newfoundland was the Beothuk, a group that was wiped out by Europeans and consumption. But other native groups spoke of rumors that the Beothuk had actually migrated out of Newfoundland for their survival, eventually blending into other groups and being absorbed under that identity. The Vikings also spoke of the Beothuk following their initial excursion to Newfoundland, which they knew as Vinland. They referred to the Beothuk as ‘Skraelings’ and recounted having conflict with them, representing a potential reason why the Vikings abandoned their settlement in Newfoundland. Quite interesting to think that the Beothuk may have driven the Vikings out of Newfoundland, before later being driven out themselves and potentially reaching the Michigan tribes you referred to in this video. I’m not an expert, just have ADHD. But since you are an expert it’d be really cool if you looked into this! Thanks dude great video as always.

[@evilynnnarwhal]

I actually live near Casnovia. I actually drive by the lake to get to Newaygo, but I never get to see the lake really well but I think about this case while driving by. It wouldn’t surprise me for it to be a murder and I’ve never met a police officer worth trusting. :/

[@southphillylilly]

Same. I've never come across one I could trust and one has never helped me when I needed it It's criminal the way they handled this.

[@PootisPenserPow]

Unfortunately, the MSP is super corrupt. They're perfectly willing to fabricate their police report to secure charges.

[@skully6223]

Same. Whether small town (where I’m originally from) or big cities, they’re all the same it seems. I don’t like “blanketing” an entire group & assuming every person of that group is the same…so I hesitate to say all. Instead, I’ll say 99% of policeman I’ve known of & have met within my small town treat you how they want to based on who you are, who you’re related to, how they feel about your family or friends, & have no qualms about spouting all of your business to whoever will listen. It’s so backwards. How it’s not a conflict of interest for one man to be a judge, be a part of the fire dept., rescue squad all at the same time is beyond me. And don’t get me started about families working with families & how one does or doesn’t get a job based on that. It was like living in a weird bubble. And ppl rarely leave that place once they graduate HS-most who leave usually go back. I left at 20 & am 44 & have no intentions of ever returning. Ppl give cops too much credit & don’t realize that cops rarely prevent crimes--they show up after the fact. I just wish folks who’ve never had to go to court for themselves or with someone else would go sit in court for one day-then they’d see exactly how unfair & ridiculous the justice system is when doling out “justice”. Sorry for the tangents!😊

[@sideless5339]

Not the State Troopers that's for sure. Not even conspiracy no one in Muskegon likes the State Police.

[@walkerh2745]

@@skully6223well put.

[@twocents8282]

This is the first I'd heard of the canoe filled with beer cans. Did the police run any tests on those cans for fingerprints or DNA? Both Todd and the cans turn up same time, weren't there prior...staged.

[@leanna9290]

Note about the medications: those medications wouldn’t be prescribed together at the same time but SSRIs and SNRIs are not super effective so people often trial through them and get prescribed them in succession, so if someone didn’t throw away their old medication immediately they could very easily have those medications at the same time… so it doesn’t have to be two assailants or someone with access to pharmaceuticals. Also they aren’t party drugs but I’ve heard of people throwing random pills in a “candy jar” at parties and just taking whatever is in there. It’s stupid and probably doesn’t make the best high but it’s not implausible

[@abigailxmary]

also, amitriptyline is a tricyclic antidepressant, not an ssri or snri

[@DaddiDrako]

Amitriptyline can cause dizziness, sleepiness, anxiety, hallucinations and sedation, usually when mixed with other drugs the side effects are worse but I was prescribed it as a teen and it made me feel far away from my body and gave me minor hallucinations it was not fun tho it was scary like if u trip off Benadryl

[@rileysimmons9886]

​@abigailxmary amitriptyline and desipramine are both TCAs, in fact.

[@kyallon1213]

So i can confidently say that some of the weird instances with this case can be explained simply by him being drunk. A couple of weeks ago I decided to walk home from a house party while blackout drunk, without telling anyone, and got lost when i was only a 5 minute walk away from the place I just left. I hadn’t gotten any farther than a block in a span of 30 minutes and nobody had any idea what I was doing at the time (myself included). If someone saw me on the street and was like “yeah i think imma kill that guy,” my ass would have been turbo-grass

[@sawbonesromeo5707]

I can attest to that. Used to be something of a party animal in my youth, it's exceptionally easy for an intoxicated person to turn a 10 minute walk into an hour long adventure (whether you're just tipsy, or totally plastered). Sometimes you're struggling to physically stay on track, sometimes you get distracted, sometimes you deliberately linger for dumb reasons...this case is exceptionally suspicious but that one part of it really isn't.

[@Atvsrawsome]

How do you account for the 3 weeks of missing time though. And also the insane amount of drugs in him.

[@gordonshumway5933]

I too can attest to a drunken walk home, falling, getting turned around and going the wrong direction. Everybody thought I was good enough to walk home, but I wasn’t. If something happened to me, I’d be a missing 411 mystery and there wasn’t a mystery. I’m lucky I didn’t get hurt or worse and fortunately got picked up by a young dude going to work. It could’ve gone bad tho, I walked entirely in the wrong direction and kinda far from my destination. Things are usually explainable to be honest, certainly not every case but most are. As far as explaining other things, the body makes some of the drugs found in these cases. Idk if the two in this case are, but that’s used as evidence at times when it’s explainable by a dying or dead body making it. And it’s true the water is colder at the bottom, and would preserve a body longer, this was early June up north and we’d need to know if it was a long spring and if the weather was colder leading to that point.. and we don’t know how the body entered but that it either wasn’t there or was at the bottom, according to witnesses. These elements can explain more of the situation without bugs and the preservation. If the body was standing as opposed to face down, it could’ve been in the process of floating from the bottom which also could explain preservation and lack of insect activity. He himself said he was lost, he was drinking, it’s possible he had an accident leading to what was found. I wanna say the water not being in his lungs stands out most to me, but I also don’t know that it has to show water in the lungs, if dry drowning could’ve still happened, or what would be the outcome of a struggling person holding their breath, or if somebody passed out or that was knocked out would breath while unconscious and in the water, and how much water would be inhaled or whatever.. and if one looks at that Brian in Florida, he was in a swamp in Florida in the summer, i’d fully expect things to go quicker in that scenario being warmer, being in a high insect area, and I wonder if a muddy swamp or something about that also added to him being a skeleton. I’m not saying nothing is fishy or that things definitely happened exactly as police claim, but I am saying it’s not nearly as far fetched as it sounds for that to be the case. It’s also completely normal for the family to believe there’s more to the story, I had a cousin that committed suicide, there was bruising that made my family suspicious at first that he was murdered, but it wasn’t actually abnormal, it was blood pooling. Also it’s not abnormal for law enforcement to know more than us, and to not share what they know for a few different reasons.

[@kitkatboard]

@@Atvsrawsome I, too, think the "being lost" thing was because he was a little drunk, but that especially would've made him into an easy target for murderers. I don't think this commenter meant this in a "it was totally an accident" way.

[@hanslanda8303]

Sounds like a skill issue to me

[@robynwilde]

Aiden-- there's a book called The Man from the Train in which the author tries to connect a series of killings in America to the Hinterkaifeck murders. It would be a headache of an undertaking, but if anyone was going to sift through the information to verify or disprove that theory, it would be you.

[@tommykelso3592]

Video title:”did the police do something fucked up” Me: *instantly clicks video*

[@Epocki]

Things that could've easily been investigated, such as: -The killer, knew when he left the party, so who was Tom was in contact with few people, letting them know he was leaving/has left. Why were they not investigated. - The prescription medication has to be medically prescribed to someone, an investigation into who at the larty jas any medical history where they'd need this medication. If not, is there not a pharmaceutical code linked to each prescription that could be traced back to the user. If it's a smaller town location, then it wouldn't be hard to track this down. I feel like there was so much neglect toward this investigation that following the right protocols could have had a solution to this case.

[@Fighterman481]

Hey Aiden, I super appreciate your commitment to making sure we have all the documentation of a case so it keeps from being hearsay or unwarranted speculation. That being said, you mentioned there are missing 411 cases without documentation. Do you think it would be in the cards to do a sort of "compilation video" of them, with super quick overviews of what we do know, just to get exposure, or do you think that simply wouldn't be interesting? Either way, love what you do here, looking forward to more!

[@TheNamlessJoe]

This country is so corrupt. Do you know how heartbreaking it is to grow up a patriot and to see so many lies appear throughout your life? 🙁

[@cerebralm]

It deeply sucks. But take heart ... most other countries are even worse :\

[@Transilvanian90]

@@cerebralm Yes and no. Based on what I've heard, America is very different region by region. Some areas are fine, and others read like you're in a horror movie.

[@jupiterzombies]

eh.@@cerebralm

[@cadeharmon5201]

I dont know if id say most countries 1st world countries, but yeah

[@bobbeezel2593]

Yeah, so disappointing to grow up and learn that your country is just as evil as the old Soviet Union we were raised to fear and hate. Who knows, maybe we were the evil ones all along? Now it certainly seems like they had every reason to distrust the U.S. back in those days

[@Humanh8red]

Regarding the title, they surely covered up my step sisters murder. She was literally drugged and murdered by her roommates because she raised their rent/phone bill.

[@borntoolate89]

that's terrible, sorry for your loss..

[@JoeRogansForehead]

Landlords suck

[@RandomPerson-nd2ey]

​@@JoeRogansForehead not one but... Sure, those who buy up property only to jack the prices up are ridiculous or otherwise jerks about it are. That's with anyone who is a jerk just because they have the slightest amount of authority. However I'm not going to condemn people for making a profit. Especially because I have known people who have tried to do it as nicely as they possibly could including not making a profit at all. They got completely screwed over for their efforts. Trash left everywhere, their property heavily damaged, a dog that was mistreated (starved, neglected, and likely beaten...), etc. So, yeah, I totally understand why people who are nice stop doing that. Besides, what's the alternative? Also, reading comprehension. They said the step sister was a roommate, not a landlord.

[@chrism4008]

​@@RandomPerson-nd2eynever paid bills before have you? Or not longer than a year. If you had you would know that literally everything goes up in cost over time due to inflation. Moronic children are the only people who are out here mad at landlords for having to prevent loss. Grow up child

[@JoeRogansForehead]

@@RandomPerson-nd2ey reading comprehension? She raised their rent , only landlords do that . Maybe you should learn to read

[@rayndown]

Man I love your background and lighting so much. Cozy as hell

[@MegamiImperatrix]

As someone from Michigan, yes they did.

[@klaatuNaatu]

Really great video! I've heard the details of the case before and knew things didn't add up, but in this video you guys really took those suspicions and inflated them so big that it can't be overlooked or denied by any rational person. Great research and great editing, as usual! P.S. I think I noticed the theme song being a little quieter at the beginning and the end, which I actually appreciate a lot. When I used to put these videos on to listen while I fell asleep or just in the background while doing other things, the volume could get a bit alarming. Love the song, but I like the subtle change.

[@paulwright1814]

“Oh God! “Kid”.. And that felt natural!” 😂😂😂 hahaha. Hey, I’ve been there, brother. It’s indeed a gut wrenching moment LOL

[@JSwanKilowJ]

There's a lot of parallels between this and the Jelani Brinson case. I think something similar happened in both. Jelani had an abnormally high level of GHB in his system, missing for weeks, found in a body of water, but determined to be dead for only a matter of days. Witnesses claim he decided to "leave" a party prematurely. Almost identical circumstances here, except trade desipramine and amitriptyline for Rohypnol. just my person opinion, I think this is something that happens at parties often. A cruel prank where they drug someone, hoping they'll trip out. I don't believe it is homicide necessarily, but definitely negligent. There just doesn't seem to be any motive or purpose. That's just my opinion though.

[@chrism4008]

At one point in time many years ago i knew this weird couple. One day the dude came home with 2 bottles of liquid roofies, and they proceeded to roofie eachother secretly for a month until their roofie juice was gone. It was fuckin weird dude

[@JSwanKilowJ]

@@chrism4008 sheesh. at least they were just doing it to each other...hopefully. When you look at the side effects of these drugs, heart/lung failure is a symptom of overdose. I think in both cases that's what happened.

[@sofakingonmynuts1438]

I think people are taking drugs and just finding a way to die, probably billions of people abusing pill every day, millions upon millions of people say I don't feel well and get home, some don't make it, just life

[@AintImRite]

Geoff Newiss, who co-authored the University of Portsmouth research, studied 150 cases, 2010-2018, to analyse why so many young men die in water. His work shows that 70% of those who went missing on nights out were aged 25 and under, with 45% being under 21 - and more than one third were students. The winter months of December, January, February and March accounted for over half of all cases.

[@honeycrispsnail4032]

Honestly, my first thought was that he was trafficked. I do know some people who have went through that, including one of my family members. It almost follows the exact same story of his except for the fact that they got set free after a couple weeks. He went to a party, got drunk, maybe someone offered him drugs, got him high and took him to a place for a few weeks to do whatever with him. They kept him drugged up so he couldn’t fight which would explain the lack of defensive wounds or any injuries. Maybe they OD’d him and dumped his body afterwards. I have to wonder if they checked his body for any s/xual abuse of some kind. I have to say, my only info comes from this video and a couple of others. I’m not too big on this case. I’m just sharing my own opinion.

[@theprogressivecynic2407]

I agree that this is suspicious and the police dropped the ball, but the fact that there wasn't any water in the lungs doesn't mean that he didn't drown (something like 20% of drownings don't have that). There is something called a laryngospasm, where the human body massively over-reacts to the sensation of drowning and a small quantity of water getting into the lungs, clamping down the larynx to the point that the person chokes to death. Basically, the body thinks its drowning and ends up shutting off the airway to extremely that it causes death. Sometimes this is referred to as "dry drowning."

[@chrism4008]

I can believe this because it sounds like what my brain would cause my body to do if i thought i would drown

[@katiekane5247]

Dry drowning is a different thing

[@householdgambler]

Happened to me was scary as hell

[@wirelessone2986]

You would think the autopsy review with the 200 experts would know of this??

[@theprogressivecynic2407]

@@wirelessone2986 You misunderstand. The entire situation smells of corruption and/or incompetence and the timeline alone justifies additional investigation. I'm just saying that the lack of water in the lungs is the weakest justification you can use for calling this suspicious, as plenty of drowning deaths don't have water in the lungs.

[@DaKdawg]

For a brief moment I thought to myself...how do people not know what a Martin is...then I remember that they are in fact a rare mention for people who don't go outside or life up in the Central West. Long story short, I do appreciate the breakdowns on things and the way you approach them. As always, loving what you do.

[@CallMeCarter211]

I appreciate when it's pointed out. I always think of Martin birds which greatly changes the story sometimes 😅

[@Downs-Indroam]

I live - and am from - Nova Scotia and have Mic Mac (Migmaw) lineage. This was some fascinating information everyone.. Great job on the research! I don't know a ton of history regarding that side of my ancestors due to having a mostly white family history and even the people on the local Rez don't seem to get as much of their tribal history as they should. I never considered how the "vikings" who came from Scandinavia to settle in Newfoundland were most likely living with the natives... I LOVE learning 😊

[@Jordan-bm8lp]

Grew up in Newaygo County, about 20-30 minutes from where this took place. I’ve NEVER called M37 Newaygo Road lol but I drove on these roads to go to school, friends’ houses, and even had dinner before prom at the Half Moon Bar and Grille. I think it’s a different business now, but still. So crazy to see my childhood landmarks referenced in such a baffling case. I was young when this happened, but I’ve still never heard of it until now. Wow

[@danielleoakley9577]

First time viewer and as someone who'd lived in southern mI and traveled, visited and listened to a lot of lore in the area, I found your intro FASCINATING! Thank you for including this info and the way you delivered it is perfection.

[@jamesl4393]

Please consider looking into the case of Erik Stirling Cross in Vicksburg, Michigan. It's an interesting cold case that really deserves more attention, just one I thought worth mentioning!

[@IceFireofVoid]

14:37 it's not that bad. I once got called "sir" when I was 19 years old. I am a cisgender woman. I knew I was flat but man that was uncalled for.

[@drillbitt4426]

id love for you to do a deeper dive into "the boys on the track" case. Im from (and still live in) benton, which is in saline county where it happened. My friends mom was really good friends with Linda Ives, unfortunatly she passed, but she never gave up on the case. It'd be really helpful to get more attention on it. People around here are still scared to even talk about the case, espically alot of the older guys. I was even stopped from making a short film on it by one of my highschool teachers because the fear is still real. Our police and county officials are still corrupt, and its a pattern that came to a head that night. Really good video! (also ohio state is our rival bro)

[@lillytarry1424]

Wendigoon did a really good video on the case :)

[@mikesanders8621]

Wendigoon hasn't made a really good video on anything, but I'm willing to believe that people can change.

[@mrsd2950]

I’m from NW Arkansas so I’ve always been interested in this case. I really didn’t enjoy wendigoons video on it (I like most of his though). I’ll watch every video I come across on it though.

[@ronfox5519]

There was a book on it years ago. And I think James Corbett also had a vid on it. Corbett lost all vids when YT kicked him out, and I don't know if he is still working on a different platform.

[@mrsd2950]

@@ronfox5519 any idea what the book is called that you’re talking about? If not no big deal.

[@ernestpolk9555]

I live in Georgia, I worked in a hotel, for 30 years..... Every guest you encountered you said Yes Sir or Yes Mam, May I help you? Regardless of age......it is Respect......

[@Yeahno-ey3rb]

I looked up the Smiley Face Killer(s) Gang theory. It is interesting and not out in left field. Some experts are saying it is ludicrous based on what is known about serial killers. However, I don't think people have taken into account that what we know about serial killers has changed since the US public was introduced to the term, serial killer. It's been proven that pedos can and sometimes do work in gangs so why not serial killers?

[@DaddiDrako]

Yeah there’s literally human traff!cking rings that work together along with ch!ld exploi!ation video makers that work in groups that have literally been tied to the government in many different instances such as satan!c panic and the followers cuIt

[@Ms.Behaving]

I love the snark about the Internet solving cold cases and the michigan state po-po😂

[@uncannyashes]

The transition from the ad into the story was so good 😂

[@randibagley]

I was at this party. I didn't know Todd or anyone he was with and didn't know anything happened until the day after. The party place was called Obaha and the parties were lit.

[@TheLoreLodge]

If you have any further info I’d love to hear it, we’ll be discussing this on the show tomorrow!

[@THOR252RACER]

I'm from Michigan and the cops are nasty here. Corrupt af

[@xgunsmokex3079]

This video hits home for me. I grew up less than 30 miles from where this took place. I still currently live in that area and I remember when it happened. I also have personal experience with the incompetence of the MSP and all those things coupled together really makes me angry that this young man who, I’ll ad, was not much younger than I am now when he died. Wonderful work gentleman you guys have earned my respect as investigators and historians

[@Fandomsaremylifee]

I love how in depth you get about the natives that lived in all the areas you talk about ❤

[@wilhathaway1987]

Had nothing to do with the story or case. It’s just pandering

[@Chest_Rockwell1]

Very pointless and not at all related to the case. What a waste of 12 minutes lol

[@MrConstant23.]

I love how I'm trying to remember the clan type animals and what their roles were for no reason. You're that good of a storyteller

[@Silver_Girl178]

Did this female acquaintance have a boyfriend or a brother who was doing a medical residency at the time? It feels like a social class thing: someone was pissed that Todd was talking to her, maybe?

[@chrisguthrie2834]

great job researching these stories and reporting them.

[@ward1117]

The Smiley face murders is absolutely terrifying. Bedtime stories did a video about them.

[@kingjoseph5901]

Is there any actual proof though?

[@leonkennedy7638]

No they aren't. It's a boring urban fairy tale.

[@Julzsavedandsetapart]

Many people say it's c o p s.... They are affiliated with many 1 percenters here.

[@dylanball6851]

Amitriptylene is a tricyclic antidepressant. Its really sedating i take it for insomnia.

[@amberrose8137]

I take it for chronic pain myself. It’s one of the older antidepressants. I was like oh wait this is actually something that I know about for once lol.

[@dylanball6851]

@@amberrose8137 It definitely helps with pain especially if you're taking an opiate with it. I'm only on sub but when i take the amitriptyline it intensifies the pain relief. I'm only 29 but i got arthritis and degenerative discs. Feels more like I'm 92

[@mikehinkley3468]

File a FOIA request with the state police they legally must respond.

[@theSashaDoll]

Good luck getting them to even acknowledge that. Alaina Chantal Parkhurst ( was married to Jeordie White and later dated Violent J from the clown group we dare not say ) after the clown groups BIG Halloween show. Miss Laney was found deceased AT violent Js house. Now. The police and Vj got Laneys own parents to say she made a mistake with her own medication for depression. When I finally got my hands on her actual tox reports. Those show CRAZY levels of Fentanyl and metabolites. ( Laney was 96 lbs and tiny. No way did she do it to herself. She also did NOT do drugs ) So much about her death doesn’t make sense and points to Laney actually passing at the venue ( Harpos) I’ve been trying for a year and a half to unravel the systematic corruption that has protected violent J and the “ cult following “ of fans to no avail. If anyone wants to assist her other friends and I. Please feel free to message

[@haileyhatfield86]

I love how you dive into the history of the people native to the area. I’ve learned so much and I’m grateful for the knowledge!

[@alceon1]

Great vid

[@Magdalenasfears]

I'm Anishinaabe. My grandma was Ojibwe bear clan, my grandpa was Algonquin loon clan. My dad, who technically would be loon, was much closer to his mother's family and doubled majored in law and medicine. He eventually became a Detroit cop (a protector). My mom is Metis, French and Anishinaabe. Her ancestors were the first French babies born in "New France". We've done DNA tests and come back with Scandinavian ancestry on both sides. As far as we know we don't have any ancestors from Norway, Denmark, or Sweden. Dad's side is difficult to trace record wise because both his parents were native, but my mother's side has EXTENSIVE records thanks to them being part of the original settlers and the catholic church (which allows us to trace them even farther back). The last few generations we got some Scottish, Irish, and welsh dna, but the closest we've come to Scandinavian with them is a 5x great grandma who was from Finland (which shows up as 1% in my mom's dna, specifically Finland. She's like 10% Swedish and Norwegian). I fully believe there were vikings here before French and English settlers

[@TheLoreLodge]

Hmm, what part of France?

[@Magdalenasfears]

@@TheLoreLodge mostly Avignon and Montpelier from what we've found, so the south of France. One ancestor lived in Paris.

[@alexandermcdiarmid3822]

I am surprised to have come across this video!! My father was interviewed as part of Oxygen's coverage of the Smiley Face Killer. He was the pharmacist that was asked about the drugs in one of the victims' systems. My dad was upset by the production's choice to note that the night one of them went missing, the drugs in the victim's system, if ingested, would have been noticeable if spiked in a drink. Would have had a bitter taste. My father lamented that it was an important detail and wasn't sure why it was not included.

[@sunidaye011110]

Also i literally grew up like an hour from this case (in Newaygo County) and I know well of these parties. There's unfortunately waaay too many people have been missing and murder. Most counties in MI don't have the funding for these resources. Also the cops say a lot of things and they don't necessarily follow thru. Muskegon and Muskegon Heights is a high crime area. Its really odd that MI State PD didn't redo the autopsy.

[@mrcory1236]

I like that you repeat stuff over again when it is brought up again later in the video, it helps keep my adhd brain on track of what's going on.

[@laurarominger2073]

First time watching. Excellent research. Will definitely be following.

[@williams2187]

Me and my buddys used to go to half moon on the way up to our friends cabin, kinda crazy hearing you talk about the city I live in and places I’ve been😅

[@zeusthegod480]

Amytriptaline is no joke it messes you up. Im a big guy and have a very high tolerance for things. I was prescribed that once for severe pain and i basically knocked me out and i was way out of it to were i didnt know where I was. So if he had that in his system there is no way he walking and winding up in the lake. He was purposely drugged for some reason.

[@colenicholson5698]

You should check out some Nova Scotia mysteries at some point, it's a weird place with a lot of history.

[@Cc07]

I know corruption in general is rampant in the world but it’s nice to hear it specifically coming from my home state. Sometimes you feel kinda alone when you talk about michigan corruption or at least I do. There’s been very few times in my life where I’ve come across anyone facing some trials against the system here. I hope maybe the families of all these crimes can possibly bring about a lawsuit.. I highly doubt it will help but ya never know. It’s straight up illegal to lie on autopsy and there’s also consequences as police if the investigation is compromised in some way. Gabby Petito still shocks me to this day.. I’m glad you brought it up. We all kinda watched in real time and I didn’t really feel like there was injustice until I heard police disregard a proper interrogation process and blatantly say they can’t find someone when almost every solved case I know has involved tracing someone’s whereabouts through spending or GPS from their smartphone. All of which were possible and yet it feels like they basically and collectively gave a murderous pos a grand permission to leave. The amount of shit that happened in that case versus cops who will put someone in cuffs and in an interrogation room in seconds but nah Landrie was given complete freedom compared to any other suspect especially the last person seen with Gabby. This case with Todd is ancient but there’s many cases like his.. it’s disheartening to feel like we can’t do anything and their life is worthless to the system. RIP Todd and Gabby. You should look into Junko Furuta if you’re interested in other corrupt cases.. her death was by Yakuza and literally hundreds of people in the area knew she was being tortured to death. They’re all free ofc. Her case is the one that always haunts me. It’s creepy and strange when you know someone is being murdered and no one does shit including people getting a paycheck (paid by citizens) to protect us. It sort of feels like were all just supposed to quietly accept it. To just imagine and pretend that we could be a Todd or a Gabby being completely dismissed.

[@yesiamawildflower]

So glad I stumbled onto your channel. Good stuff!

[@sunidaye011110]

The injustices and atrocities the Native Americans suffered then and since are unforgivable.

[@keelyemerine-mix1051]

You really do a comprehensive job.l, and I'm grateful for your placing the subject in the hustorio-geographical context of indigenous nations. Well done, glad to subscribe!