The Masculinity Paradox: Terry Real, Doug Braun-Harvey, Erlanger Turner - Sessions by Esther Perel

[@donutdawg]

Esther Peter led me here because I’m a huge fan. I was disappointed to find out she was merely leading the panel on this topic, but it made me willing to listen to the other professionals I’m completely unfamiliar with. I’m satisfied I did because this lecture is bomb!

[@nancyyancy5199]

So happy you are adressing these powerful and potent conversations. Thank you.

[@tortoisegamer5804]

As a male trainee therapist, I enjoyed this panel, particularly the points made by Dr Turner. I feel that men receive paradoxical messages regarding what to be. We are told to be assertive and confident, but simultaneously, we are expected to demonstrate deference and vulnerability. Additionally, and with respect to my female peers, they still use what Real posits as patriarchal terms, in order to describe how they feel men should behave. For example, I often hear phrases such as, 'He's too soft', 'He needs to grow a pair', 'He needs to step up', 'He's too nice' and so forth. Therefore, I appreciated the comments in the later stages of the panel discussing how, sometimes, women can perpetuate certain male stereotypes just as much as men themselves.

[@LSSYLondon]

Women use the similar phrases on each other ex "grow up", "get it together", "deal with it", "suck it up".

[@User0resU-1]

This information is sorely needed. But it's a half step, guys like David Deida and John Wineland are probably where the future lies.

[@thisisntallowed9560]

Women want men to protect them. Women like men to be vulnerable as long as it doesn't make women feel unprotected. It's about the context. Women don't like men that look unreliable, showing vulnerability can make you look like that. But not necessarly. If you have a flaw but you're willing to work on it, it does make you seem reliable.

[@henrysachwald6074]

A

[@fabbeyonddadancer]

Well women are typically attractive to masculine men of socio economic status . It’s a fight between female real attraction and then feminism

[@CreationInEmotion]

As a woman - I applaud the 3rd men who was answering questions- talked the least yet said the most 👍 thank you sir

[@CreationInEmotion]

Black Knight Fool ? 😳 not sure how you came to that conclusion- but being me my whole life I can certainly say I’m very aware of my sexuality( as I am an artist- meaning (to me) I have put in practice every belief I had to test if it really brings results I was assuming) - and I had to admit to my self after years of experimentation that I am heterosexual in an old fashioned sense....

[@CreationInEmotion]

I would say I have (and have developed) many masculine traits - but that is due strong personality and pretty tough life ... but when it comes to my sexuality- I am purely heterosexual. Now , I am aligned with someone like Jordan Peterson on many thought processes ( before I got to see his content) but I also follow Esther for quite some time ( not continuously). I have respected her views because I got to understand that sexuality is everything but simple. Just painting something black or white really doesn’t change the fact that it is soooooo gray.... now - when I saw this video - I was a bit surprised honestly... the first thing I noticed is that all the men therapists are pretty feminized ... except for the third dude - he - as I said originally- had most to say I’m my view by saying the least .... I could actually detect male individual talking about male issues within sexuality/relationships...

[@CreationInEmotion]

Look, from a spherical point of view - something IS happening, changing... on many fronts - but could be the same root that branches out into many parts of society/ identify ... now - if I stretch my imagination as much as I can - it can be that the pendulum has gotten to its extremes (and will eventually find its balance unless there is a force we don’t know anything about) .... or we are going trough a metamorphosis as a species and as consciousness... maybe where we want to go - our biology has to change... (this is just a wild guess in the dark) ... but to come back to some kind of earth : from personal point of view - we do need to change. Masculine as a protector instead of dominant for self gain brings feminine trust .... trust is not submissive- although it may appear as such ....

[@ashishsengupta6980]

@@CreationInEmotion don't respond to these mgtow trolls, your response is what feeds them.

[@JH-ji6cj]

@@ashishsengupta6980 such an idiotic comment. The discussion between divides is EXACTLY what is beneficial. Calling someone a troll just because they disagree with you is being quite the troll yourself.

[@LeaLittleDanishGirl]

38:26 Word! 😂🖤🙏 47:34 Terry Real, I am hereby a REAL fan.✊

[@asalane20]

Amazing insight from each speaker. Well done!

[@ailin-cathy2918]

Wonderfull thank u so much for uploading this session!

[@purplestarm8864]

I love everything written in the description box

[@corina-lupu]

It's amazing. I am so grateful to all of you for those talks. Finally men who say it. The rules of toxic patriarchy need to go. I'll only have a small correction to the text up here to bring to your attention. "Power over vs power with" is a concept elaborated by Mary Parker Follett, a forgotten pioneer in organizational theory and organizational behavior. Otherwise, I love theese talks. Thanks you for sharing it with us.

[@Verkoper-gx2xz]

This is a very interesting video on how to better engage with your feelings as a man, so you can liberate yourself from toxic masculinity: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2eZdZKFmslobq8

[@alistairhunter5724]

Not really he is not a man so doesn't count

[@eastcoastenergy]

Toxic patriarchy? whine, whine, whine!!! If a man is more skilled than you women complain and men seek to duplicate the new skills. In other words women view things in terms of being a victim and men view the world in terms of merit and skill not power or identity.

[@gratefultammy]

Excellent seminar , thank you !!

[@remkojerphanion4686]

I am an adult male and during my 2,5 year struggle with depression and countless therapy sessions, not once, ever, was sexuality discussed. I had 2 therapists, one male, one female. Weird huh? My depression is gone, 100%, btw! :)

[@effiebriest1278]

I see your comment is not a recent one and I hope you are still well. Never the less I wanted to let you know that what you experienced might but does not have to be because you identify as male. I am a woman struggeling with depression for 30 years. Except from one of plenty of therapists, who later turned out to sexually assault children (and thankfully I had refused the talk), no one ever wanted to talk about sexuality . Even though it is known for decades, that one cause for depression especially in women can come from problems with sexuality. The problem is, that there are not very many capable therapists out there apart or rather in addition to gender and sexuality issues.

[@Zen56103]

I'm sooo tired of everyone blaming "Patriarchy". It was exceedingly obvious that the first guy (7:45) studied under feminists based on how often that guy uses "Patriarchy" as an explanation. Also, after all the blaming of "patriarchy", and how women are initiating 70-80% of divorces due to men not being vulnerable "due to patriarchy", I wonder if he has an explanation for the fact that lesbians divorce at twice the rate of heterosexual couples.

[@AndiAlexander1]

Haven’t you heard the joke? What does a lesbian bring on a second date? A u-haul! Perhaps committing too soon has something to do with marriages that don’t last.

[@PoliticoLoudMouth]

Right on, Terry! We must move past patriarchy!!!

[@theprousteffect9717]

"70% of divorces are initiated by women, it's women carrying the dissatisfaction." This is only part of the story. Just because men don't complain or initiate divorce as often doesn't mean they aren't dissatisfied. I think many men learn to live with the dissatisfaction, and they know divorce will mean financial ruin for them.

[@RAIRADIO]

To men women become invisible assistants of life. Who wants to give up an invisible assistant? Its both a financial and convenience loss.

[@zuzannasymonowicz1752]

If patriarchy is created by men, for men, than why is it so cruel for themselves. Nevertheless we know so little about men.

[@nicolechown2249]

The orgasm, wow that is a paradigm shift. I have never thought of.

[@ashishsengupta6980]

The third black male speaker has better understanding of men.

[@virginiavigliar]

is there a transcript of this somewhere?

[@winstonsolipsist1741]

I want traditional masculinity to be considered "okay". There is nothing wrong with stoicism, strength, fortitude and being the rock that anchors the family. I opened up once, just once to my ex wife because the counselor she wanted us to go to said I needed to open up. My ex wife then took that information and relayed it to everyone she knew. I would hear, "Oh my God! Do you want to know something about my husband? He, [describes what I told her in detail] hahahaha!" Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fortunately, now I am in my sixties so sex and relationships aren't really anything I need to worry about any more.

[@MammaKush88]

I'm so sorry she betrayed ur trust like that. Not all women are like that .

[@LSSYLondon]

But talking to your wife and being stoic are not anathema to each other. You just think they are bc you were hurt.

[@latinaalma1947]

That was an abusive violation of trust on the part of your wife.

[@pistolen87]

41:45 I have felt very attracted to women I personally despise, because they were hot. Is it really the culture and conditioning that made me feel that way, or is it a biological drive?

[@zuzannasymonowicz1752]

I guess it is somehow the feeling that they would not really like you. In fact I don’t think you really despise them. If you like them, you just like them, just be honest with yourself, despising is a self defence perhaps.

[@Mauricio_NET]

It's very interesting.... There is just a couple of man on this speech! 🤭 However, this is a very good session. BTW I'm on vacation 🤪

[@Mauricio_NET]

I loved to see all those faces 😍 Interesting ❤️

[@Mauricio_NET]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@pistolen87]

Women have changed, men have not. Women to men: "get your shit together and follow our lead" Men at first: "ok. ok. ok I'll submit to your will". Men later: "fuck this shit, I'm out of here. Where's the dialogue?

[@User0resU-1]

Women brought up the men. 🤔

[@asalane20]

Your rendering is simplistic.and shot through with resentment

[@pistolen87]

@@asalane20 No

[@socialisttrafficregulator2015]

(7:00) *checks out*

[@matasuki]

What is Esther's thoughts on Andrew Tate phenomenon

[@JAHQ79]

Man I would love to hear her on that topic.

[@joopdesmit]

So, here it is. I can totally relate to what Mr Real says. Mr Braun-Harvey as well. But the ramblings of Mr Turner about power... Sorry. Not the issue. The issue is that whatever I tell in deep trust and intimacy, that a therapeutic setting is, I will get thrown in my face, perverted, ugly and warped by my wife. She can not compartmentalize. So everything she hears, goes to all parts of her. And some parts are horribly warped. I don't give crap about power. But I do care about my personal integrity. About being heard in what I say in the context of when I say it. I choose my words carefully and precise. It hurts unbearable to get not even a caricature of that returned to me. That is why I hold back and answer strategically. Not power.

[@thisisntallowed9560]

I'm sorry but I'm playing Stardew valley while listening about men's sexuality and there's like the little music that really doesn't match the situation

[@naylojones7190]

Will do the same now 😂

[@TakeshiYoung]

What a feminine group of speakers to be talking about the subject of masculinity!

[@skeptical_citizen]

So, this mindset is exactly why those men are up there speaking.

[@Leanmachine33]

Funny that I wonder what the response would be to a group of men talking about and defining Modern feminism, let me a massive double standard lol

[@skeptical_citizen]

@@Leanmachine33 First, the op is accusing the men (the speakers) to be feminine. So going off of that, the equivalent would be masculine women talking about feminism. Lol. The speakers are men, Perel is only the moderator here.

[@Zen56103]

Because the entire field of gender-relations is controlled by feminists. It's a matriarchy.

[@mattplaydrum]

I don't perceive them as being feminine. I do perceive them as being thoughtful and emotionally intelligent. Personally, I wish more of us guys would spend time understanding and cultivating emotional intelligence. Women kind of kick our asses when it comes to that 🤷‍♂️

[@lilypowell1123]

Who I am " EROTICALLY ?? I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION ??! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO BEGIN TO " THINK " WHAT " THAT " ,WOULD " LOOK " LIKE , AND HOW TO EVEN BEGIN TO PUT TOGEATHER AN " "IMAGINATION" OF THAT ??? WHHAATT !!!?

[@zahrashahabinezhad]

There is no need to gender these "issues". Why can't we just talk about people who are different from each other, trying to understand and respect each other? Long-term relationships are difficult to maintain no matter the gender of the partners involved. It's important to work on yourself, regardless of gender, in order to communicate and articulate yourself well. Working on the ability to take constructive criticism is also something everybody should be focusing on, again, regardless of gender.

[@lynneweinstein3932]

True - and not true. Not everyone falls into these stereotypes, but society plays a big role - eg. Many, many more women than men complain about lack of intimacy in relationships. It is fair to generalize in the interest of creating frameworks for therapists. In workshops, Terry is clear that sometimes, it’s the woman who presents the less emotionally-attuned role.

[@JAHQ79]

I agree with you. I would like to ad though that I think that what you wrote should be the focus of the therapy. Often there's a new blueprint provided about how a man should be. However I do think it's important to understand how culture (among other things) plays a role in the person you have become.

[@1brenmaster]

If you are going to talk about masculinity it would be a good start to have at least a little of it in the room. I've learned what women want from this talk not what men need. Sorry Ester, love your work but this seems taylored for that particular audience and possibly it's ideological leaning

[@ameliadeshane9192]

She has a lot of videos that do cover mens needs, though.

[@1brenmaster]

@@ameliadeshane9192 I agree completely, I think the conversation is possibly swayed by this individual audience and it's geographic ideological leanings. I'm pretty sure it would be much more honest, challenging and interesting listening if where any city in Europe for example

[@ameliadeshane9192]

Why? Do you mean because they are American? ( asking genuinely. )

[@latinaalma1947]

Yes I did not li.e all the assumptioms the second speaker made...it sounded very much like he was pandering to a mostly female audience who he thinks believe than men and their different ways of relating are something that must be obliterated or changed..Men have many admirable ways of relating...for example in sports and outdoor play as boys they learn not to so readily bear grudges when someone bests them in a competition. I grew up as a girl whose father was a scout leader. The boys in his troop gravitated to our house to play outdoors after school even though my father wasnt home. I climbed trees with them, played pick up baseball, raced bikes with them etc I was better at the tree climbing than any of the boys first because the tree was in our yard so I had more opportunity to practice and get to know which limbs were safe and second because I had done alot of trapeze work on our swingset as a little girl. I happily competed against them and this served me well in my career. I learned to be a good team player and also a good loser when I didnt win competitions. I grew up jever holding back and pushing forward through practice and perserverance many physical challenges....not to cry and feel victimized, not to be angry and neurotic etc etc Boys and men have some very fine qualities and values around fairness, honor, persistence, fair play etc that more WOMEN would do well to learn in childhood. I am a 73yo second wave feminist who lobbied for family abuse shelters served as president of their boards, worked for equal pay for equal work, etc and I am sickened by how toxic attitudes have become towards men...men hold up 48.5% of the world and in many cases like in the military, law enforcement, forestry, longline fishing, eletric line repair work, construction, farming, ranching and many other tough extremely dangerous jobs they do then heaviest of the the lifting amd pay the highest price with their lives all too often. I am sick of the men bashing....men deserve our respect just as much as women and children do...we are ALL vulnerable and sometimes fragile human beings. My father,grandfather, brothers,adult son, grandsons and husband are or were before their deaths fine, kind, gentle, strong, loving human beings and I will not have them or their memories browbeaten by society any longer while I sit and keep quiet. Sybil Francis PhD clinical psychologist and professor retired

[@1brenmaster]

@@ameliadeshane9192 not that they are American but more a certain part of America where people seem a bit more polarized or radical in view than most other places when it comes to gender dynamics.

[@Richjunior1]

You don't need these lunatics when you are red pilled

[@davidjonburke2729]

It's not surprising that there's under 500 likes on this video

[@ramonarice3717]

The wealthy click individually identify because harp phenotypically skip on a mammoth edger. absorbed, imported wallet

[@aussiegolfer59]

It would be really interesting to have a man on stage who has a red pill understanding of women and the sexual market place. It’s a shame their views are involved in the discussion because they have some valid Points

[@levivanoverloop]

What a disappointment In Esther to totally miss the ball on this. Maybe invite some real men to have both perspectives.

[@Theinfinitethought]

Could you elaborate?

[@levivanoverloop]

@@Theinfinitethought I am talking about Jordan Peterson or Alexander Grace. These 2 are quite balanced. But you can go even lookup the opposite extreme with the red pill community.

[@lavendertea4625]

@@levivanoverloop alexander grace😂😂😂😂

[@saxxone17]

What really could be the point of this. Why would people try to convince the world that weakness is okay? The entire world is going to shit.

[@JAHQ79]

Where did they say that?

[@costantin75]

First guy never ever talked to a man. That's very strange! Anyway, it's not too late. He should try. There are many awesome guys out there.

[@lilypowell1123]

THIS WHOLE THING WAS WIERD , STRANGE !! STUPID AT TIMES , AND WHAT A WAIST !!!

[@TheBatman777]

The first hippie guy sucks. Had to skip ahead.

[@MrFrank107]

It is and always will be a Man's world despite your pathetic war on Masculinity. This is the Law and it's the Law of the strong.

[@lavendertea4625]

Men lead with suicide are you sure about strenght😂😂😂

[@MrFrank107]

@@lavendertea4625 'Suicide' is the dark side of strength. Just who built the modern world you take comfort in? I thought so, Honey.

[@lavendertea4625]

@@MrFrank107 cope

[@JAHQ79]

Yes, it's a beautiful world. Hunger, poverty, disease, wars, environmental issues, psychological problems, health problems, economic problems, and soooo much suffering. Yeah men did a fantastic job ...

[@MrFrank107]

​@@JAHQ79 do something about it or shut up. Your not a Victim or are you?

[@123chupachups]

This is creepy

[@jodyreed2242]

I am a Psychiatrist and this is why I tell men to NEVER go to a therapist, or Psychologist.

[@rachelsweets]

Interesting

[@MC-df7xd]

Can you tell us more...?

[@JAHQ79]

So what do you do than? Prescribe a pill?