THE MASTER AND THE APPRENTICE: BTCC Super Touring vs 2020 Car at Croft

[@lukecrawford2843]

Croft Pole Times for reference 1998 - 1.21.984 (Super Touring) 1999 - 1.21.028 (Super Touring) 2000 - 1.20.517 (Super Touring) 2001 - 1.25.920 (BTC-T) 2002 - 1.25.267 (BTC-T) 2003 - 1.26.446 (BTC-T) 2004 - 1.25.494 (BTC-T) 2005 - 1.26.208 (BTC-T) 2006 - 1.26.213 (S2000) 2007 - 1.26.243 (S2000) 2008 - 1.25.825 (S2000) 2009 - 1.26.006 (S2000) 2010 - 1.24.629 (S2000) 2011 - 1.24.839 (S2000) 2012 - 1.24.900 (NGTC) 2013 - 1.24.465 (NGTC) 2014 - 1.23.246 (NGTC) 2015 - 1.23.886 (NGTC) 2016 - 1.23.608 (NGTC) 2017 - 1.33.182 (NGTC) Wet Lap Time 2018 - 1.55.556 (NGTC) Wet Lap Time 2019 - 1.21.734 (NGTC) 2020 - 1.27.450 (NGTC) Wet Lap Time

[@calumwilson182]

I really like that you give exposure to BTCC on your channel and socials. For me I feel like BTCC isn’t given enough attention these days, whereas for me it’s in its best state for some time currently. Often many drivers in with a shout of winning something come the final round and the close racing had remained iconic. You’re also a handy little sim racer, would love to do some touring car racing with you on Rf2 at some point!

[@AidanMillward]

I’ll be streaming the BTCC league I’m gonna be in so that’ll be a lot of fun.

[@AidanMillward]

Yay! All fixed. Apart from the patrons turning up halfway through the video. But they got thanked, and that's the important bit. I also said super touring died after 1999. It actually died after 2000 but with three manufactuer teams and whoever was around... It might as well have been dead...

[@d00dEEE]

For me, at least, the history lesson is the best part.

[@newcastlegeorge]

Good stuff Aiden! It's great to see the BTCC resurgence recently, but the late 90s were truly iconic. Hopefully the guys making the new BTCC game will do the series justice, and add some historic cars too

[@JakePetrolhead]

Considering the cost difference, the fact that the times aren't that far off is a credit to how well built and driven the modern BTCC cars are, to even be remotely close to the FWD Prototypes that SuperTouring became towards the end. I truly think the series is in another golden era with these NGTC regs, as the racing the last few years has been absolutely spectacular, with healthy size grids and a massive variety of shapes and models taking the to grid. Thank you for continuing to put a spotlight on my favourite Motorsport Championship!

[@AidanMillward]

And because they’re slower, the racing is better. Same for the Ginettas and minis. Meanwhile, there’s the very fast Porsches, but they end up being Snorches. Meanwhile in F1: cars were too slow but followed better. Then 2017 came along cos muh lap times and now look what’s happened.

[@JakePetrolhead]

@@AidanMillward To be fair, Harry King did the impossible and made the Porsches worth watching last year, just because he was so spectacular - I can't wait to see him Vs Cammish, because it's going to be absolutely mega. It's a tricky one with F1 because I remember fans and drivers complaining about the lack of laptimes, and now they have it, they complain about the lack of overtaking - it's not really a scenario where you can have both, and it leads to qualifying being more entertaining than most races. The later SuperTouring suffered with a similar thing to a lesser extent - the aero meant cars couldn't follow quite as closely, though usually it just meant drivers had to resort to more "robust" methods of overtaking. But generally the slower stuff produces the best racing - the Ginetta Juniors specifically are the highlight of my BTCC weekend, as there doesn't seem to be a single dull moment in those races.

[@neblolthecarnerd]

I love that airwaves car as it was part of my childhood. I loved watching it race as it looked so good and I loved the tv advert. It’s just iconic to me. I never really had any driver affiliation at the time apart from the fact that I loved Jason Plato (idk why, maybe because he was on 5th gear or something), great to see him back on the grid and a great drive from him in the last race. Side note: yes I’m a teenager now and you’re that old

[@jackmiller-johnston8689]

Thanks for making me feel REALLY old, chief. The Airwaves car to you, is what Anthony Reid's 2000 Mondeo is to me

[@AidanMillward]

@@jackmiller-johnston8689 the people running Turkington’s BMW are the same lot that ran Mansell’s 98 Mondeo. That’s making ME old.

[@neblolthecarnerd]

@@jackmiller-johnston8689 that is probably my favourite looking super touring era car. Just looks 👌

[@schore69]

man... that just feels like a week ago. im really getting old. around the same age as good old aidan, but i still got my hair and look at least kind of dignified still ;) lets see how long it holds edit: dont take it to seriously aidan... love you and your content!

[@edwardburek1717]

@@jackmiller-johnston8689 Anthony Reid's 2000 Mondeo ST220? Try Andy Rouse's Kaliber Sierra Cosworth RS500 MEGAWEAPON

[@yracpontiferous4846]

I had hoped you might go a route like this. From the drop on this video format I was imagining things like Toyota Eagle Mk3 vs Mazda DPI (for example).

[@rickybuhl3176]

TOCA 2 on the the PlayStation is still one of my favourite racing games of all time. Matt Neal in the Indie Primera, Rydell in the Volvo - golden years.

[@nashrace]

Great video. This is particularly close to my heart. I drive a Honda Civic ep3 in the Classic Touring Car Champipnship against the very Supertourers you discuss here and in some cases the very drivers. If you love this era of touring cars then come and see them for real at Silverstone in March. Last year I raced against John Cleland, Anthony Reid and some bloke called Colin Turkington, whoever he is?! This year stands to be even bigger. My lifelong dream, I'm living it. Oh and they say you shouldn't meet your heroes! We I shared axpit garage next the JC last year and he is a great bloke. Interesting, and interested, great banter and a real gentleman. Also still a real animal when driving. Again sir, a great video, as always

[@DjDolHaus86]

I had a ride around a carpark in the supertouring Vectra when I was about 12, it rattled like a tin shed in a hailstorm and was crazy loud.

[@IndiBrony]

Was excited when the video started with Oulton Park - where I'll be this weekend to root on Jim-Jem in Goldie! - and then Croft, my local track! I've got so much hype for British motorsports lately.

[@jacobdinsmore8237]

I've always normally been a fan of rwd when sim racing but recently got to take my first classes on track with a fwd car and i loved it, plus learning some of those skills really helped me enjoy them more on Sims. It's really weird

[@Space_Reptile]

im glad my suggestion was taken, i feel humbled

[@maxrothery9196]

One of my local tracks! I’ve drove round it once but was a Supercar experience day when I’d just passed my test so just trundled around at 60mph, but I could tell it’s a proper fun track

[@TAZS]

i dont know why this popped up in my recommendations but this is awesome man, what a thoroughly informative and enjoyable video!

[@edwardburek1717]

I'm pretty sure the Broadbented One will welcome you into the Mushroom Cup...

[@scottytremaineplays9461]

I’ve done bicycle races around there and my goodness those chicanes are tight.

[@chriscuthbertson]

Croft is my local track and it's amazing. I had some great days lapping around there.

[@nathanchildress5596]

Love that BTCC Nissan Primera. That's an under-appreciated car, especially in the US where it was called the Infiniti G20, and almost no one bought them.

[@afilleduptaco]

A good one would be the American open-wheel racing cars of the ‘90s compared to today. Both have very good assetto corsa other games’ mods

[@RMesbah]

For Crofts in 2000 (the farthest back I could find data for) Pole was Rydell in a Mondeo @ 1:20.920 with a race lap record of 1:22.048.

[@dantyson851]

Supertouring was amazing back then, loved it, even the liveries are iconic

[@AidanMillward]

With the BTCC league I’m in starting again soon I might try and paint a Primera tribute.

[@dantyson851]

@@AidanMillward A reply direct from the Mighty Millward himself! 🤩😆 I would definitely look forward to seeing that 👍🏻 The Silver/Blue Volvos and those green Nescafe Renaults stick with me (I do remember the yellow/blue split Renaults from the year before I think but for me the green was better)

[@matk4731]

Cool comparison. We had some Super Touring in Australia also & they were nuts fast. Get TrackIR then you don’t need Triple screens. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻🙃🙃

[@Mrmayhembsc]

going to my 1st BTCC Race this weekend :) can't wait not watch a bttc race since the mid 00's

[@MASESOX]

See you there on the bentley straight

[@MikeBingo1]

Fun fact about Croft Circuit. I fell over watching the BSB one year

[@zanmato86]

Loved this video 👍🏻👍🏻

[@15DEAN1995]

Also seeing a version of this with the group c cars vs the modern cars would be amazing. Would love to see a sauber c9 vs a porsche 919 or the toyota winner

[@minibus9]

awesome video

[@teertaa]

The money in super touring is well spent not only to make the car faster planted to the asphalt, but they did consider about the cost of tighter maintenance and repair schedule because there was lots of kinda expected divebombs and crashes. Super touring was demolition derby for the elite back then

[@sophiaevans9908]

Ohhhhhh that Matt Neal Primera 😍😍

[@jonathanwalker6383]

Just got a chuckle from the 'vomit' next to the dingles.

[@AidanMillward]

Dads side are all Walsall. Mum’s side are all Birmingham except her older brother who played for the Albion.

[@jonathanwalker6383]

@@AidanMillward A nice split, I'm Albion so enjoy the derbies more than anything else. Even the odd preseason down at the Bescot.

[@katherinewilliams5549]

I could hear an argument that Group A was the greatest time for touring cars as a whole, where you could run a Sierra Cosworth from BTCC, to DTM, to Bathurst, including the greatest calendar of all time the 1987 WTCC Season. But when I think BTCC, I do think of Super Touring.

[@skyforce3580]

Pretty surprised to see a Jays jersey. Didn't know you were a fan as well

[@justinvillanueva5673]

Sweet Jays jersey.

[@AidanMillward]

It’s my “it’s bastard hot today” shirt.

[@iainrwatsonable]

Love these series it's amazing seeing the cars being driven back to back like this. Just a not am I blind or were you running 20L extra fuel in the NGTC? I was wondering while the tyres are different compounds are they also different sizes?

[@AidanMillward]

Fuel levels in that mod doesn’t affect the times much. You have to run on absolute fumes for it to make much of a difference in qualifying

[@TL98]

super touring field in AC just got widened with the addition of the bimmer 320i and the volvo s40

[@CaseTheCorvetteMan]

I used to host a server using these cars in rF2, the Vectra is not on par with the Laguna and the Mondeo, and the Volvo is even further behind. The BoP is not very well done in these. The Laguna was easily faster in a straight line than anything else, and the Mondeo was capable of faster cornering. The Vectra was not capable of the same lap times, and the Volvo was either down on power or up on weight. The BMW had it's own set of issues, mostly due to the engine braking causing some issues on anything more than the lowest settings. The Primera is also available, but drives completely different to the others and really burns up the front tyres.

[@ryaramaf1gobshite397]

You have loads of understeer in both cars can you not get rid of it?as I have given up on front wheel drive cars cos of that understeer

[@AidanMillward]

That’s just a FWD trait. You can tune it out a bit but you’re never gonna get rid of it entirely. Especially not in these things that have virtually no downforce. You really have to change the way you drive when going from rear wheel to front wheel. I guess it’s like driving circuits and going to ovals, it’s a totally different way of driving. The TCRs in iracing have been a big help in learning how to get the hang of them. A lot of the “issues” with FWD are (not having a crack at you) just people not knowing how to drive them.

[@ryaramaf1gobshite397]

@@AidanMillward thx I didn’t take it as a dig jst once I seen the understeer u had i realised it can’t jst b my car setup THX again

[@Soulfirer]

Noice!! Thanks for doing that- enjoyed it. I’m a huge super tourer fanboy…. I’m also a big AC fanboy, and would have preferred the Primera and knockhill, but hey…, I’ll settle for first 🖕🏻

[@AidanMillward]

I would have run the Primera, but given how much time I’ve spent driving touring cars in rf2 the last year it made more sense. Plus the NGTC mod in AC isn’t particularly good.

[@bryanfraser4062]

The IMSA commentators like to say the rear wheels of a front wheel drive car are only there to keep the tailpipe from dragging.

[@colinuk1984]

Croft is my local track 👍😎

[@Oblio1942]

good vid, your overlay could have been a bit bigger I could hardly see the dance floor

[@McPlayer8t]

Just an idea, can you do this with Nissan GT-Rs? Like one R35 against an R34, an R33, all the way back to the original?

[@robmooremtb]

Very good. Should have used the Vodafone Primera 😉

[@AidanMillward]

Wasn’t available. Just the Ford, Renault, Vectra and Volvo.

[@robmooremtb]

@@AidanMillwardthe BRG Renault was my second favourite car in TOCA2

[@lordshankracing4724]

This may sound really stupid but you should cover or do a series where you talk about the diecast racing world. Or more notably Sub4ra's diecast Nascar series. It's very entertaining, has a lot of controversy and plenty of drivers and teams to talk about. It's basically F1 in the 80's with there modifications.

[@glowtail3744]

I was wondering what happened to the video before

[@Speedworx]

Pole in '98: 1:21.9 and 1:22.4, in 2000 pole was a 1:20.517

[@JasonCliftJones]

Rydell's pole time for the 2nd Croft race in 2000 was apparently a 1:20.517 so not that far off: www.touringcars.net/database/qualifying.php?id=1252

[@AidanMillward]

Turkington last year was a 22 I think.

[@valter_vava74]

There was definitely about 1 second yet to be had on the NGTC... you were just starting to get the lines smoother.

[@AidanMillward]

Yeah. They’re relatively easy to drive, but a bitch to drive quickly.

[@fmr555]

I do disagree about the FR2 vs AC FWD comparison. I race a FWD car IRL, and the AC experience is much much closer than FR2

[@AidanMillward]

The NGTC mod isn’t that good to drive. Most of the models and textures are a bit iffy too.

[@bensteward8937]

I've been lucky enough to have a passenger ride in a ngtc car. It sounded a lot better than that

[@TheNecromancer6666]

I am so annoyed by the wastegate Sound from the NATURALLY ASPIRATED Vauxhall

[@MASESOX]

Never realise how small this track is. How do they overtake?

[@AidanMillward]

They find ways 😅

[@zekeandersson2040]

bumping and bashing pal

[@MASESOX]

The dive bomb into tower or side by side through clarks. I get it

[@AidanMillward]

@@MASESOX you can get by into the hairpin as well. The TCUK race there was carnage.

[@joeogle7729]

@@MASESOX well unless your Plato in a Subaru with your teammate just ahead. Then the dive into tower doesn't work so well...

[@15DEAN1995]

Thats interesting nascar and back have that in common the cars from back in the day were actually faster than the modern equipment

[@darknewt9959]

Croft is the best circuit in the UK? Cover your ears, Oulton Park.. the bad man knows not what he says...

[@DjDolHaus86]

Agreed, Croft always reminded me of a go kart track

[@AidanMillward]

Just opinions bro.

[@darknewt9959]

@@AidanMillward Croft is one of the few BTCC circuits that has never been my home circuit over the years. These days I spend the evenings dreaming up contortions to position Snetterton as the best track in the world :-)

[@gothicpagan.666]

Pinot out one small detail. It's a video game.

[@AidanMillward]

YOU DON’T SAY! 😱

[@gothicpagan.666]

@@AidanMillward lucky not to get a puncture hitting the curbs that hard. 😆

[@pavelskrylnikov9658]

>and touring cars had D-T-mfckng-M!

[@thomas316]

I just don't find BTCC that interesting. I'll watch almost any other type or class of racing or rally from Australian V8 Supercars to Rally Raid.

[@IndiBrony]

touringcars.net seems to be the best place to find results from years gone by. You were right that it was a 1:22 for pole in 1998. James Thompson got pole in his Honda Accord with a 1:21.984