The Megas - History Repeating: Red - 04 The Haystack Principle

[@Phyrior]

Deep underground. Ten miles down, A man stands below The city he will destroy. Hidden in the darkness, His needles gleam as he begs the Reaper: Don't let me harm these people.

[@zebrin]

You were built to "help people". You get a nice fuzzy definition to work within. We weren't given that! "Fight Mega Man! Destroy Mega Man!"... IT'S ALL WE'RE GOOD FOR! It's never about what we want. We're just tools, kid. So do your job. Take the shot.

[@boxinthejack2166]

zebrin Nice quote from the comics

[@zebrin]

@@boxinthejack2166 I figured it was a fitting quote.

[@fistpump64]

@@zebrin it is

[@WhiteFangofWar]

Light builds family and friends. Wily builds slaves. Then he's surprised when the former keeps defeating the latter.

[@se7enist]

@Protosceptile Umm....source? Pretty sure the comic was out before the song was. Far more likely that the Megas took some inspiration from the comics.

[@yosh9192]

Remember that the MM3 robot masters (except for Shadow Man, who was discovered by Wily and has an entire identity crisis in his own song) were all originally built for good, but then reprogrammed later. Needle Man was originally an energy mining and land development robot, someone who’s entire purpose was basically dedicated to the betterment of mankind. Now imagine waking up one day, realizing you’ve basically been converted into a walking war machine, and being told your new purpose is to kill who is essentially one of your creators’ child, and to destroy all who stand in your way. That is exactly what happens to Needle Man in this song. It’s honestly kind of incredible how The Megas can take these characters and make you feel for them so deeply in a single song.

[@asteroidrules]

Airman and Needleman are like a twisted mirror of each other, one is up in the sky ten miles high, the other deep underground ten miles down. The fundamental difference between them is how they view themselves and the hatred they feel, Airman externalizes, he blames the world that doesn't accept him and vows vengeance, there will be a tombstone with the planet earth engraved on it; Needleman internalizes, he blames himself for being unable to control his programming and vows to die at Megaman's hands, if that's who I am then I'll fight who I am. Airman asks if Megaman knows how it feels to only be able to push others away, Needleman asks why is he only able to push others away. To both of them the solution to their suffering is in death, but Airman wishes to visit death upon everyone he believes has shunned him, Needleman wants to bring about his own death before he harms anyone else.

[@SchizoidPersonoid]

Megaman's coming to kill him... "...and now I see a way out this time." :(

[@TimelineGoddess]

"Deep underground, ten miles down, a man stands below a city he will destroy" the megas announce annihilation of monsteropolis 2

[@angelemmanuelperezmuniz1474]

That's so true.

[@CidYoshi]

Stop

[@pancho855]

"I'm not the bad guy, i'm just designed that way" Wow, i think that's the best line out of this franchise, makes you feel bad for blowing up the bosses.

[@highstimulation2497]

when you think about it, that could apply to people too, at least from a perspective that is critical of creation stories. I mean, deities designed people to be the way the are, and this is somehow the peoples' fault, and not the deity? amusing, isn't it.

[@bestaround3323]

​@@highstimulation2497 The results of a deterministic universe

[@lanereynolds4567]

​@@highstimulation2497depends on the creation tale. In some, all the ingredients that can make a person a paragon of good, can also be used to become the epitome of evil. The question isn't the tools that exist within man, but how many chooses to use said tools. And being bound by one's creation is more a problem in science than creation tales. As if man is nothing more than hormonal reactions to stimuli, then there's not even a chance there could be any other path.

[@elhadjtall3627]

Don’t feel bad. You’re a bad person too. It’s human nature….you just happen to have the upper hand.

[@travismcnasty4239]

The work needs to be done. These aren't people. They are sad machines without free will.

[@Birthnote]

I get a suicide by cop vibe from this song. "And now I see...a way out this time!" is different from his usual "I can't see...a way out this time!" He definitely feels trapped in more ways than 2; hates his programming, appearance, and where he's at; while Mega Man is seconds away from fighting him, Needle Man decides the best way to solve his crisis is to lash out like a wild animal so Mega Man can kill him.

[@shelbybayer200]

The lyrics here is actually "I can't see………How I'm designed"

[@Birthnote]

@@shelbybayer200 Nah he's definitely saying I can't see a way out this time.

[@shelbybayer200]

@@Birthnote Maybe on the last bit But at the beginning I hear them say "Designed" But I could be mishearing it

[@Birthnote]

@@shelbybayer200 Not trying to be rude, but the only times he says design is "It's in my design; it's not my circuitry" at the beginning and "I'm not a bad guy; I'm just designed that way" in the start of each chorus. He says "And I can't see...a way out this time" at the end of the first 2 verses then changes it to "And now I see...a way out this time" at the very end.

[@evarchavex4800]

@@shelbybayer200 That is not the lyric at all.

[@zenorockbell3023]

"Don't blame the man for his appearance, see him for his flaws" -Some Guy, 2017

[@zenorockbell3023]

btw, that reference to will of one and annhaliation of monsteropolis.

[@slateoffate9812]

You can always judge a person by the quality of their enemies. - Sylvester McCoy

[@jaxixteen]

What is worse than pushing others away? Constantly hurting them

[@Scribblerjohnny]

As a veteran, this song hits many places in my soul

[@reasonlessguru3724]

"Deep underground Ten miles down A man stands below a city He will destroy" Oh my. I laughed waaaaay too hard.

[@GZilla311]

Reasonless Guru Air Man Approves

[@paulhenr1]

They even share the same "cephalothorax" design lol

[@gamercore5216]

It's almost like they are the same robot

[@jaxixteen]

Reverse air man

[@ymdr4989]

歌詞和訳 　 キャラクター: ニードルマン ----- The Haystack Principle 　 藁山に落ちた一本の矜持 　 This is not my home It's where I'm locked away It's in my design It's not my circuitry This is not who I am 　 この場所は俺の家なんかじゃない。 俺が閉じ込められた檻に過ぎない。 この姿形は俺という存在の設計に過ぎない。 俺の内面を織り成す回路じゃない。 こんなものは俺自身じゃないんだ。 　 You'll never see me behind this killer's face These aren't my hands These needles take their place Was this all part of the plan 　 この殺人機の顔の裏にある俺自身の顔を、 あんたは決して見ることがないんだろう。 俺に繋ぐ手は生えていない。 鋭い針が、その箇所に成り代わっている。 ――こんなものが俺という存在の設計の全てなのか？ 　 Would you believe this isn't me That what you get isn't what you see 　 あんたは信じられるかい？ こんなものが『俺』じゃないって。 あんたの目に見たままが、 全てじゃないってことを。 　 I'm not a bad guy I'm just designed that way No matter what I try I can't help but hurt those close to me And I can't see a way out this time 　 俺は悪党ってわけじゃない。 こういう姿に造られただけ。 何をしようとしたところで、 近付くものを傷付けずには生きられない。 逃げ道なんか見付からないんだ。 　 (Wait, get to the point) 　 （止めろ。はっきり言ってみろよ。） 　 It's hard to blame them I even scare myself Built to kill seems to be detrimental to my health I guess I should have known 　 人々を責めるのは酷な話だ。 俺自身でさえ俺という存在が恐ろしいんだから。 「殺すために造られた」という事実は、 俺自身の身も心も苛む。 こんなこと、とっくに自覚しているべきだった。 　 He's on his way down I hear him just above I guess it's his job When pushing comes to shove At least I won't be alone 　 あの子が道を下りてくる。 あの子の足音がすぐ頭上に聞こえる。 これがあの子の使命なんだろう。 抜き刺しならない時が来たとしても、 最悪でも――俺は独りじゃない。 　 Would you believe this isn't me That what you get isn't what you see 　 あんたは信じられるかい？ こんなものが『俺』じゃないって。 あんたの目に見たままが、 全てじゃないってことを。 　 I'm not a bad guy I'm just designed that way No matter what I try I can't help but hurt those close to me And I can't see a way out this time 　 俺は悪党ってわけじゃない。 こういう姿に造られただけ。 何をしようとしたところで、 近付くものを傷付けずには生きられない。 逃げ道なんか見付からないんだ。 　 Deep underground, Ten miles down, A man stands below the city He will destroy... 　 地の底深く、 十里の深み、 彼は、奈落の底に佇んでいる。 彼は、破壊を齎（もたら）す―― 　 (Stop) 　 （止めろ） 　 How can I retract these claws Those are your hands You can't take back the damage you cause 　 どうすれば、俺はこの鉤爪を覆い隠せる？ これはあんた自身の鉤爪でもあるんだぜ。 誰かに刻んだ爪痕を消し去ることはできない。 　 How can I take off this mask That is your face You can't remove the fear you cast 　 どうすれば、俺はこの仮面を脱ぎ捨てられる？ これはあんた自身の仮面でもあるんだぜ。 誰かに与えた恐怖を消し去ることはできない。 　 How can I turn off this hatred That fills my eyes You can't shut down where your path lies 　 どうすれば、俺はこの憎悪を拭い去れる？ それは俺の眼を満たしていて、 続いていく道を絶ち切ることはもうできない。 　 When can I stop being bad That is who you are If that's who I am Then I'll fight who I am ! 　 いつだろう、俺が悪党を止められるのは？ それはあんた自身のことでもあるんだぜ。 こんなものが『俺』だと言うのなら、 俺は、もう一人の俺と戦ってやろう！ 　 I'm not a bad guy I'm just designed that way No matter what I try I can't help but hurt those close to me And now I see a way out this time 　 俺は悪党ってわけじゃない。 こういう姿に造られただけ。 何をしようとしたところで、 近付くものを傷付けずには生きられない。 逃げ道なんか見付からないんだ。

[@Tylerb7]

This place is not my house. It's just a cage where I was trapped. This figure is just the design of my existence. It's not a circuit that weaves my inner side. I'm not myself like this. My own face behind the face of this murderer, You will never see it. I have no hands to connect with. A sharp needle replaces that point. Is this the whole design of my existence? Can you believe it? This is not "I". As you see it, That's not all. I'm not a villain. It was just made like this. Where I tried to do You can't live without damaging what you approach. I can't find an escape route. (Stop. Let's be clear.) It's a terrible story to blame people. Even I myself am scared of being myself. The fact that it was "made to kill" My own body and soul are irritated. I should have been aware of this. That child comes down the road. The footsteps of that child can be heard immediately overhead. This is probably the child's mission. Even if it's time for him to stab At worst I'm not alone. Can you believe it? This is not "I". As you see it, That's not all. I'm not a villain. It was just made like this. Where I tried to do You can't live without damaging what you approach. I can't find an escape route. Deep in the ground, The depth of Juri, He stands in the abyss. He brings destruction-- (Stop) How can I cover up this claw? This is also your own claw. You can't erase the claw marks that someone has carved. How can I take off this mask? This is also your own mask. The fear you have given to someone cannot be erased. How can I get rid of this hatred? It fills my eyes, I can no longer cut off the path that follows. When will I be able to stop the villain? It's also about you. If you say that this is "I" I'll fight another me! I'm not a villain. It was just made like this. Where I tried to do You can't live without damaging what you approach. I can't find an escape route.

[@michaelpizzaman276]

Sometimes, when I'm sad, I like to listen to this song and cry

[@blekiscooler]

OH MY GOD THE ANNIHILATION OF MONSTEROPOLIS REFERENCE IS SO COOL

[@BeaneCat]

Man this one's a gem.

[@nerdking5277]

No, that's GeminEye.

[@dankusmemeoid6680]

Nerdking 527 I guess you could say it’s a *Gem*ineye. Okay, in all seriousness though, they’re all great in their own ways.

[@mattpostingcinematicuniver7920]

"If that's who I am... then I'll fight who i am!"

[@kainthedragoon8081]

Both Crashman’s and Airman’s programming is trying to influence Needleman

[@MechaKnuckles]

Do you interpret Crash Man's song as him turning good before his demise?

[@kainthedragoon8081]

I feel like Wily didn’t program him properly. He had to make sure he didn’t destroy everything but I turn he gave him a Conscience

[@MechaKnuckles]

@@kainthedragoon8081 That makes sense, I could see that being the case. Crash Man is somewhat friendly towards Mega Man in his song, it seems. "To break Wily's walls you will need my power. But to your aid, an unlikely friend - programmed to fight until the very end!" He doesn't hate Mega Man like some of the others do. He respects him and sees his crash bomb power as an ally for Rock to use - but fights to the death like he's programmed to.

[@boombox2ikik239]

@@MechaKnuckles and as somebody else put it, his programming technically “crashed” in a way

[@TheQuashingoftheTub]

"I'm not a bad guy, I'm just designed that way." -Jessica Robot

[@tylermannor4290]

I am so glad I found this band

[@Geese17]

personally one of my all time favorites outta this whole album aside from the final songs on this. It just hits on a deep level and I love how the megas always give such a soul to any robot master.

[@Lost-km5bh]

Everytime I listen to this song I can't not cry! Darn it, I'm crying again 😥

[@sigmundroamer6580]

Sounds to me like someone's been reading the manga.

[@lanereynolds4567]

More like the manga was listening to the megas

[@OverlordGameworks]

@@lanereynolds4567 True story, at least in the Archie Comics one one of the Megas had commented to me that the message from Dr. Light is basically verbatim in there hahaha. There's a few parts that are slapped in there. They love it. ^_^

[@ShibuyaShotos]

I come back to this song quite a bit and i'm inclined to believe there are three specific characters involved in this song. Needle Man as this is his from his perspective and his song. Mega Man, who I imagine is the one saying "Wait. Get to the point." And then finally Air Man by way of Doc Robot, repeating the ten miles rant before being told to stop. He spends the next part pointing out that Needle Man's monstrous appearance is his true appearance.

[@TheCool8bit]

I always imagine after the “deep underground” part is needle man pleading with airman to tell him how to spare the lives he may destroy

[@g.s.1570]

Find the hay in the needle stack

[@archdeaconslag805]

This is one of my favorites by this band. I identify so much with Needle Man, it's not funny.

[@uraccountcrashed8845]

Really? I can't find it in my heart to like this one like the others... I think it just feels too different than the others, and not in the good way like GeminEye. I'm not saying 'tis a bad song, but it is simply not for me. Maybe this one is more... I dunno, maybe just too all over the place. Kudos to you tho.

[@silversoul3037]

@@uraccountcrashed8845 well this song in particular is pretty much a continuation of air mans theme by them and needle man had the same body type so this song says airman and needle man are the same but needle man doesn't think they could ever do that to people and they want to be their own person so they as the song says "ill fight who i am" each song is used to humanize the robot masters and make them seem like a person with individual wants needs and desires

[@keaton5101]

its basically programmed to fight 2 not that im complaining cause both songs kick ass

[@MechaKnuckles]

@@uraccountcrashed8845 I completely understand that. I'm not really a fan of Needle Man's original song, but I like this remix a lot for cleaning it up and adding more melody to it. It is definitely a messy song by nature and has a lot of notes that are... dissatisfying, I guess?

[@R03N_01]

Cant believe this is history's first sign of kinning a character.

[@Bumblevivisector]

While there is a city visible in the background of the beginning of his level, I always thought Needleman was on some huge elaborate ship, ala Super Mario 3. Maybe it just looks wooden, and I'm going by some early game guide's description. Did the comics paint a clearer picture or something?

[@richardsphd]

In the comics, Needle Man is in an abandoned pirate ship. He's also really self concious about it, knowing it's not "in-theme", but he couldn't be in a cave because Hard Man had already taken over a cave

[@CrowMangoeswee-fi8tc]

I like this song the song is in my favorite album.

[@jorgeandresalvaradomartine6170]

3:50 call the (DLN-007) because this part is on fire.

[@angelemmanuelperezmuniz1474]

A Robot Master disliked the song. I hope it wasn't Needle Man.

[@muxilava]

I guess was Snake man.

[@jorgeandresalvaradomartine6170]

Weakness. 😂

[@noblemecha7788]

And now I see a way out this time

[@stampede274]

Robot dysphoria sucks. :(

[@DestroyerOfAglets]

he needs Special Weapon Confirmation Surgery

[@CountZ3ro]

Dear KZbin, I ALWAYS skip the ads.

[@Eberheim22231-p]

Mazur - The Haystack Principle

[@mariobroplaygames]

3:06 4:06

[@dinothebetatt6733]

Needle Man sure is having a Hedgehog's Dilemma.

[@zafool4997]

What thee fuck is the haystack principle?

[@AHylianWarrior]

2 years late but the haystack principle is a reference to "a needle in a haystack" where Needleman is trying hard to justify living and fit into society, but he just can't find the answer. His only answer he can find is to fulfil his purpose and "fight" Mega Man, even though he does not wish to but because he was told to it must be his only meaning in life. It's basically a suicide mission and he sees no way out of dying because he cannot fit into the world above. In Mega Man lore, he was a combat robot pretending to be a non-violent industrial robot, his hobby was knitting and sewing but he was scared of needles.

[@MechaKnuckles]

@@AHylianWarrior Great answer.

[@IttaBaby]

No one else seems to share my interpretation: He's full of shit. He's making excuses and blaming society. The lines 'STOP' as he starts quoting another song, 'Get to the point' as he talks in circles and the last part giving rebuttals to his pleads, this is the person not buying his shifting of blame. The rebuttals are that he DID THOSE THINGS, the people are afraid of him FOR GOOD REASON and that "hatred in his eyes" is a poor excuse, and rather, a good reason to stop him. As for his way out, I'm very sure Megaman would be happy to capture him should he give up, but he thinks fighting is the way out, whether he wins or loses, because he can only fight. That's how he's programmed.

[@742mph6]

He's pretty clearly *not* blaming society. The opening lines of the second verse are "It's hard to blame them / I even scare myself". He only blames his own design and programming, which force him to hurt others even though deep down he doesn't want to. He'd probably love to surrender and get reprogrammed, but he can't because that would go against his *current* programming. When he says that if being bad is who he is, then he'll fight who he is, he likely means that when he inevitably fights Mega Man, he'll do his best to *lose*, just like Crash Man in "Programmed to Fight". He finally sees a way out from hurting others: he can't hurt anyone if he's dead.

[@IttaBaby]

@@742mph6 "I even scare myself" reads as disingenuous in my interpretation, playing the victim card out of the gate The dialogue I hear in this song is very much like an interrogation, our villain trying to justify themselves and our hero not buying it. That said, this is just my own interpretation. It's not 'correct', no one interpretation is correct when it comes to these things

[@742mph6]

@@IttaBaby It *is* fiction, so there's no objective fact about what's really going on, but I think some guesses are still more plausible than others. For instance, Needle Man mentions in the second verse that Mega Man isn't quite here yet, which means he's more likely to just be ranting and arguing with himself than being interrogated by someone else. And given Mega Man's characterization in The Megas' other songs - how he's wracked with guilt over killing enemy robots and directs almost all of his frustration toward himself and Light - it's hard for me to see him saying what the "other voices" say to Needle Man in this song. I think it's just less of a leap to treat the "other voices" as Needle Man genuinely struggling against himself - trying to snap himself out of pointless wallowing, telling himself to "stop" when he starts slipping into anger-externalizing Air Man mode, and fearing that the people of the world are right about him after all. A human this remorseful probably wouldn't keep doing what Needle Man does, but Needle Man isn't human. If songs like "Programmed to Fight" and "Afraid of the Dark" are any indication, it really does take all he has to resist Wily's programming even a little. This is a theme we see repeatedly in Classic Mega Man and adaptations thereof: exploring what it would mean to be a person who is also a machine.

[@MechaKnuckles]

This is very interesting as an alternate theory to the norm. You could be somewhat right.

[@baval5]

I don't see how you can call that an alternate interpretation when that's literally what he's singing about. He did do all those things. People are afraid of him for good reason. He just doesn't want to be like that anymore but he's hard programmed to be like that. So he wants someone to take him down, and he thinks Mega Man is strong enough to do it. if you know about Needlemans lore youll know that he is literally a recycled Airman using Metalmans programming and a refined version of his weapon. Metalman in game lore was explicitly built to be a robot killing machine, which is why his weapon is good against almost everyone in MM2 and why his Megas song is all about him wanting to duel Megaman and his confidence in winning. Airman in The Megas lore is filled with rage and wants to destroy everything. Needleman is the combination of the two, a perfected assassin built from the body of a dead berserker. So his claim that he is "built that way" holds a lot of water. Even if Megaman captures him it wont remove his built in desire to murder people and the rage haunting his body.