THE MIGHT OF THE CUSTODES! TIME TO USE THE TALONS IN FORCE?

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

Thing is though, the Custodes could conduct small scale operations and replenish their numbers, but large scale legion sized operations, that might bring them losses that they might not be able to sustain. After all, every Custodes is an individual work of art. They're not mass produced. They would become a sharp blade that becomes dull pretty quick if Chaos were to decide to drown them in bodies and accept a 1000:1 loss rate.

[@vonkug]

1 to 1000 is probably acceptable losses

[@wanderhillen2435]

@@vonkug For chaos. Not for the Custodes.

[@ehtrid7038]

You say they are imune on all that chaos can throw few times bro but they attacked Emperor in The End and... so they arent 100% imune as you insist

[@sardonicspartan9343]

​@ehtrid7038 what?

[@ehtrid7038]

@@sardonicspartan9343 read The end and the dead bro

[@Duppyman695]

The Custodies now reunited with the Sisters of Silence are a force unleashed. What ever "For the Emperor" is in Battle sign ☝✊🙌

[@Steezyjo510]

The interesting thing about the Custodes is they are definitely a boon to any engagement but at the same time every time they are with Astartes they can't help but show how much they loathe them. Its like the Death Korps of Krieg effect when stationed with other guard regiments. They are REALLY good at killing stuff but as soon as an Astartes takes a breath they need to remind them that the Imperium is rotting because of their predecessors actions.

[@fixedG]

As awe-inspiring as a full strike-force of a few thousand of Custodians would be, I think they make more sense as a force that can be deployed as force multipliers, particularly when it comes to inspiring faith among Astartes and Guard alike and everyone else. I think Guilleman, realizing that he's not just in a crusade but a holy war and faith in the Emperor is their greatest strength, should deploy them as highly capable symbols. Think of it as ten thousand elite warriors, each nearly as inspirational to everyone as a Living Saint, only at Guilleman's command instead of just showing up when and where most needed.

[@L0CKD0WN34]

Dreadhost exist homie

[@killerzillavolt2655]

I think the Emperor's Talons should be a proper faction in the lore and tabletop, Adeptus Custodes, Sisters of Silence, and the Lucifer Blacks. Nothing but the best of the best

[@clarkneedsaweapon]

Who tf are the Lucifer Blacks! Immediately looked them and am researching them

[@vonkug]

Gods the point buys! Won't anyone think of the points?

[@killerzillavolt2655]

@clarksagamer0117 Lucifer Blacks are regular humans with insane levels of skills and training. They too are protectors of the Emperor. The only humans that can take on space marines in close combat. One Lucifer Black was even able to stab a primarch in the chest and draw blood. He was then immediately cut in two but still an amazing feat for a regular human, especially since it was a 1v1.

[@codycurtin2295]

Custodes and Sisters of Silence are fieldable together

[@killerzillavolt2655]

@codycurtin2295 Five measly models isn't enough. Plus, the Lucifer Blacks should also be there since they also protect the Golden Throne

[@nikolaidetrick7593]

It's the discussions like these that really make me want to see more of the Minotaurs in action.

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

The Minotaurs ought to remain held back. To lurk within the labyrinth that is Terra.

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

I want to see them finally get the beat down they absolutely deserve for being corrupt Lord of Terra lapdogs with no sense of honour.

[@AlexEvans-od4ir]

@@c0ldsh0w3r yeah I agree, I think a group of two astartes, perhaps a raptor and a carcharodon, are lead by a custodian into the under hive of terra to ask the minotaurs for aid. Along the way they enlist the help of a surviving thunder warrior to guide them through it all. Could make for an interesting story.

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

@@AlexEvans-od4ir How would a Thunder Warrior survive for over ten thousand years? lol

[@sardonicspartan9343]

​@@AlexEvans-od4irthe custy would delete that thunder without a second thought.

[@TheTrueMalice]

I loved the scene in the Dark imperium book where Primaris are curious how they can keep a Sister of Silence safe and she just runs off and kills Chaos marines with little effort.

[@Its-Just-Zip]

The Sisters of Silence are also apparently engaged with the navigators in some project or another so that could also be problematic for deploying them in force (IIRC this was a small line in one of the watchers of the throne books) As for the custodians, the only way I see them deploying in force is if they expand intake from just Terran nobility. They are each a work of art, but at the scales of combat we are talking about, even the artist is gonna need more canvas

[@OOmpahLoompey]

One thing that really bothers me is how much we hear that the custodies cannot be corrupted, yet when the Emperor Beams to Horus’ flagship during the Horus Heresy, Horus is able to possess the emperors hand picked 100 to the point that they all tried killing him?

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

They weren't possessed, they were physically controlled, there's a significant difference. It's like having Parkinson's; Your mind is yours, you're still you, just your body moves by itself. The Vengeful Spirit was a conduit in which the entire power of the Big Four could be channeled. If you think he meant the Custodes could stand up to Slaanesh, Khorne, Tzeench and Nurgle at the height of their power when he said "unturnable" then you're being disingenuous.

[@akirby2886]

Yes, stupid writing.

[@codybates2419]

This was one of many issues I had with the book. If he had just driven them mad to kill themselves or just be non combat effective ok, but them turning on the Big E was just completely anathema to their entire canon

[@KillTeamHungary]

The Norn Emissary killed 6 in a row and kept going to kill the Lord Solar until Trajan smashed its skull...so it depends who is writing them. I also like to play them in kill team, as a matter of fact, I modelled the exact same Custodes with the double sentinel blade, which can be seen at the beginning of the video.

[@silversurfer8818]

Legio Custodes: Unleashed, written by Dan Abnett - would be sold out in 5 sec!

[@Shagdawwg]

I'm sold

[@Erymanthos]

I think Abnett is one of the authors who adheres to the idea that custodes and astartes are more or less the same in strength and abilities.

[@ruinerblodsinn6648]

looking forward

[@CloudSephiroth]

I just want Constantine Valdor to come back to Terra with his huge army and finish the job in the webway!

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

The Webway collapsed, they'd have a better time invading a Daemon world of Khorne inside the Eye of Terror than they would fighting inside the Webway.

[@CloudSephiroth]

@@120mmsmoothbore2 what do you think he’s building that massive army for then? I thought it was gonna be like a redemption arc thing for him

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

@@CloudSephiroth I don't think it's fair to really pretend we know what he could be using it for. I think GW is just holding it in their back pocket until they can come Io with something to use it for.

[@Jelle1880]

We've already seen the full might of the Banana Boys tbf. Watchers of the Throne has (imo) one of the best Warhammer descriptions of them. 'I could have cried out loud. I could have lost myself in the moment, for amid the carnage had come a sight from the lost aeons, a fragment of our glorious past made real once more. The Captain-General was there, slaying in majesty. The Ten Thousand were unleashed, pouring their slow-burning fury onto the only enemy that had ever truly mattered. We had returned.'

[@Leisurelee53]

The war in the webway showed us already. They can resist chaos mightily, but they cannot win.

[@danielboatright8887]

The custodies need to be encouraged to grow well beyond 10,000 so they can afford to campaign in strength.

[@jjkay2476]

Each custodes is worth more than a planet in terms of cost

[@gawkthimm6030]

@wolflordrho when you do these with spoilers from recent books, could you reference which books you have drawn from, it would really help to keep track of the lore ourselves. Much gratitude and thanks from Denmark, love your content.

[@inquisitorgarza312]

No the Custodies are a elite strike team or a scalpel to be used in this new Galaxy as they will be needed all across the Imperium to shore up the defenses against the enemies of mankind.

[@davidwilliam9681]

They have been engaged in a desperate struggle for 10,000 years under the palace where Magnus ripped open a portal to hell. It's the most important warzone in the galaxy.

[@Eric-rr3zd]

I just can't see this ever happening. They would never let their forces be drawn away from the emperor, the enemies of mankind would take it as the biggest invitation to kill the emperor.

[@doc_havoc00heavywing37]

One job that no scribe would want, doing a head count on the Sisters of Silence.

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Awaken my Quivering Abs

[@ruinerblodsinn6648]

There are not enough of the Custodes or Grey Knights and I don't believe you can just mass produce those.

[@khazngray]

I think Khorne being able to turn an entire battle fleet is exactly why you dont want legions, at least not great crusade sized legions. I just thinn chapters should be pushed to 5 to 10 thousand marines and maybe be retrained to work in tandem with one another. 50,000+ marines being turned could spread out too far too fast and cause way more damage

[@michelletheia9853]

Game designers and book writers don't tend to know actual military strategic and tactical methods (often not even knowing the difference between the two). In a grand military like the Imperium, the AM regiments would act pretty much as they do, forming a "wall of bodies" to either stop an attacker cold or flatten enemies before an unstoppable tide. This is one of the things that makes nids such a scary opponent for IoM, as they're the only ones that can throw bigger masses at the Imperiums massed infantry. Space Marines are dedicated strike forces, that would, and usually are, used only at critical points and at places the Germans would refer to as the "schwerpunkt", the "center of gravity" of an engagement, where the outcome of the engagement, or even the war, hinges on the outcome. The Custodes not devoted to defending the palace, Big E, and other important Imp personages, would be an even higher version of this, as well as a decapitation force. They'd be sent into the situations that overwhelm even the SMs, to fight threats that no other force can contain or to prevent a complete collapse of an engagement, front, or even war effort. They'd be a weapon of last resort. Either that, or the ones you send in when even the SMs cannot get in without wasteful levels of sacrifice and the target is too valuable to leave intact or operational. Were I writing about a crusade fleet, they'd have a century (80 warriors plus support, like SoS, Vexillas, champions, etc) of custodes assigned to the entire fleet, then the sub fleets would each have a contubernia (8 warriors et al). Those contubernia would be stationed on the flagship and dispatched only as extremely necessary. To do anything else is to waste a valuable resource. If one space marine is worth 100 guardsmen, and one custodes is worth 1000 space marines (by Big E's reckoning), then a custodes is worth 100,000 guardsmen, conservatively, but really I'd up the first by 10 or 100x, making a custodes worth 1-10 million guardsmen. If losing one custodes does not mean losing more than that, you choose to conserve the custodes. Of course, that's from a simple mathematics perspective. From a humanitarian (heh, humanitarianism in 40k) perspective, it gets trickier. I think the CG's remit is morphing to include protecting humanity as a form of protecting the Emperor, so they might see the numbers differently.

[@ebbiilizard8954]

One unnamed Custodes = 2 named space marines. So basically incredibly powerful.

[@aliywafiy]

Probably more than 5 named marines.

[@colonelsanders1349]

A recent novel claims they are equal to a dozen Space Marines.

[@muchlove59]

I hope the Imperium manage to close the rift, the Emperor rises and they go on the ascendancy again at some point. Chaos this chaos that, bleurgh. I know the long war but a pitstop would be nice, a change.

[@gwilym1991]

I think something that shouldn't be discounted is there's a difference between a Space Marine legion and a Space Marine legion under the command of their Primarch. No an Astartes may not measure up to a custodes but the Ultramarines legion was 250,000 marines strong during the crusade, the Dark Angels used to be more than that until the Hrud, all united under a single commander.

[@CountBoris45]

Give the Lion a sizeable strike force of Custodes and Null maidens.. oh and throw in The Ordo Sinister as a bonus.

[@tomdolan9761]

The original Legions could number upwards of 250,000 Astarte. The Custodes are also known as the 10,000 because ideally they had a fixed number.if they’re going to be a Legion they’d need to expand greatly which may be beyond the Empire’s current technology.

[@tomdolan9761]

The ideal leader for the Custodes is a returned Valdor

[@beskararmor7966]

The Custodes we're corrupted by chaos when the Emperor first boarded Horus ship. The most important moment being a Custode and they fail. Just saying.

[@hurnn1543]

I think you could have 5 detachments of Custodes, 1k strong each with their ships and Sisters of Silence detachments attached to crusade fleets headed across the rift. That would leave plenty for small scale missions and guarding the palace.

[@BerserkingGator]

***Spoiler*** Custodies have turned per the most recent book, while on board the war masters ship. Is this dismissed due to the nature of it since the four were unified or since none have ever fallen since?

[@eichler721]

Operating in full scale no force other then the Necrons could stop them. However thats a huge risk with the most important force if something happens.

[@TheJonnieredeyez]

The lore is why I've chosen Shadowkeepers as my Custodes faction.

[@satinthrone]

Part of the point with how the Imperium is written is how incompetent and self-defeating they are: having the perfect solution that could bring victory already *but keeping them chained to Terra* is part of the point with the Custards.

[@Ferty976]

Just as I start a Custodes army, now that's a sign from the Emperor no doubt

[@jamricsloe]

No. The Custodes are a defensive force created to defend the palace and most importantly The Emperor. To use them in an offensive manner elsewhere is foolish and smells of heresy. To use them in such a way is to take a chance on getting them wiped out.

[@aidanker-foz6511]

But they were already used so? Many of them accompanied the various fleets of the Indomitus crusade. Valerian's force in the Emperor's legion also famously fought in a desperate boarding action to keep a warp lane open.

[@wanderhillen2435]

The Custodians are not above a pre-emptive attack every now and then if they deem it appropriate. After all, if they just sit there on Terra then the enemy gets to build up their forces in peace. That might pose a bigger threat to the emperor than risking the lives of a few Custodes to go out there and wreck shit while chaos/tyranids/etc are still sitting at home thinking they are safe.

[@josephallen7748]

That kind of deployment could only be ordered by the emperor. Even Bobby G can’t do it. That kind of power was meant for big E by big E.

[@SarcasticChef83]

A great idea. But I don't think they'll leave terra en masse. Other than small detachments leaving. Plus Blood games always be going on...so there's that.

[@dennisbendixen7138]

Thats true. They need a legion strong sized Custoudes and Grey knights. But not as a whole But it attachments at 1000 each attached to Legion sized Marines. The time of Chapters is gone. Its not strong enough and its time to reconsider the tactics. If the wars are going to be taken 2 the enemy thens Legions at 10000+ is the solution. Each with attachment of Grey knights and Custuodians in around 1000 each. Both to bolster strenght But also phsycic protection

[@khartog01]

Even space marines need a special operations too look up to.

[@adaeptzulander2928]

I would really like to see the more political aspect of the Custodes added into lore or stories. Along with the Sororitas Orders Famulous who watch the Imperium's nobles and great houses, they keep an eye out for things even the Inquisition wouldn't be able to catch.

[@TK199999]

It would make sense if the Custodes like some Space Marine Chapters are believed to do. Constantly collect candidates, but don't finish their enhancements. Instead keep hundreds if not thousands of aspirants in stasis and only awaking them when they need to replenish the ranks. Not unlike what Cawl did with the Primaris Marines. Now if only they could give the Custodes more personality, though that is problem with modern Space Marines First born and Primaris alike. The Imperium's super soldiers lack personality many times and so don't always make the most interesting characters. It's probably why the Horus Heresy era Marines on all sides are so compelling. Since many many times they are some of the most 'human' characters of setting.

[@lordamega3183]

In this setting the Salamander are the only legion not a chapter because they were not bound to the codex

[@ricardoandre7049]

I think the more interesting question is why did Guilliman not reform the Codex? 1000 Marines while good for the Imperium its all fun and games but a more viable aproach would make "half legions" 10k Sized Space Marine Chapters would provide a more viable option (both strategically and tactically) if the Impirium is starting to go on the offensive once more, true you might need to pump the numbers a bit but then again that is the truth of any offensive. The Custodes would de very well into 100 or 500 chapters, they would perfmor somethings space marines already do but in a much more discret manner as their sizes are smaller. We need to analyze the Impirium´s strategic threats. The Hive fleet on Ball had to face 30ish k Marines, and they nearly got fucked, imagine a new restructuring of the Legions into this 10k armies. It would provide a higher possibility to deal with these larger threats

[@jjkay2476]

Legions were 100k in size. I agree 10k would be a much better size to deal with threats than 1000

[@michaelweldon4699]

Put 300 of them on a ship and the ship is destroyed it becomes a giant loss. And that ship becomes a giant target before that if the riders are known.

[@V.B.Squire]

Custodes would make a great Military Police for the Astartes

[@nomadwalker]

Custodians have been turned against the Emperor before.

[@miguelperez9906]

Valdor must return

[@painlord2k]

10K Custodes in service, unnumbered others "retired" roaming the galaxy.

[@vonkug]

Pulling the Golden Legion from the thrownworld is a HUGE GAMBLE, you'r have to have a galaxy-wide threat. Imperium so against the wall it would let HOLY FUCKING TERRa be left undefended. I'd trade the ten thousand for 3 astartes legions. So you get three loyals to mind the throne while the talons fuck somebody up, turn around, and mind the throne again.

[@KrisToCool]

Technically they did turn on the VENGEFUL SPIRIT. So they can be turned.

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

They were physically controlled, not turned. It's like having Parkinson's and your body shakes uncontrollably, you're still you inside and your brain is yours it's just your muscles aren't.

[@callow16]

During the blood curse did any grey knights fall to darkness???

[@sjfarrell2.0]

Custodes are not front-line soldiers so wouldn't be much good in a extended campaign, even though they are pretty handy in small groups. Grey Knights recruitment is too arduous to create a legion of them. There just isnt the raw material of extra special Space Marines to make into a legion of Grey Knights. But, adding contigents of Custodes, Grey nights and SoS into Space Marine legions wouild be a smart move tactically. IMO.

[@ctjmaughs]

Can't have the enemy taking that geneseed.

[@phughett213ify]

While the Custodians are undoubtedly the greatest soldiers of the Imperium, I can't help but think they are still susceptible to chaos. If I recall correctly, didn't the emperor's custodians that boarded the Vengeful Spirit with him get possessed by Horus/Chaos? The Emperor had to kill many and for those who he could bring back to normal it repeatedly took his concentrated will to restore them to sanity.

[@Ol_Bron]

We need more on the Lucifer Blacks.

[@sardonicspartan9343]

Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

[@garypipe1770]

The problem with The Imperium focusing on just Chaos they keep ignoring the 2 bigger threats in my opinion. Tyranids and Necron Necrons can close the rift without much trouble once they get their pylons in position and the fact they are technologically the strongest. Tyranids shadow in the warp means if they really perceived Chaos as the biggest threat all they would need to do is launch one massive Fleet into the warp and they would smash the ruinous powers back into small mindless beings.

[@benives254]

Do we know, lore wise, how long it takes to amke a grey knight?

[@whodat8048]

Are new custodes being made?

[@sakomanlee]

Custodes make me sad. A giant, intelligent, nigh-immortal servitor, is still a servitor.

[@justinokraski3796]

I want them to stay FAR away from Tyranids. If their genetics are assimilated it will lead to catastrophe across the galaxy

[@bryanmcmullin2096]

Kinda sounds like something Abaddon would want. Custodes OUT of the Imperial Palace...

[@antonylynn7783]

They need to be used against the Nids as they attack Terra.

[@jonharrison9222]

Too rare to use en masse and they can’t replace large losses.

[@coldsteel.and.courage]

Banana Boys big mad. They are looking extra nasty in 10th too

[@Myztek26]

After listening to the latest book on Lion El Johnson, I think I understand how they will bring back the primarchs that are known to have not been killed.

[@TheRoboJesus]

What book / story tells about the Emperor burning Nurgle's garden? Same question for the fleet being turned by Khorne, or is that just background info from 10th Ed.?

[@ordohereticus5530]

Dark Imperium: Godblight for the first question and I believe Angrons Ark of Omen book for the second.

[@Duppyman695]

The Emperor burning the garden of Nurgle is in the book 'God Blight'

[@silversurfer8818]

Chapter master valrak read the excerpt, "GODBLIGHT - Spoiler Summary! THIS IS HUGE!" roughly 25min into it, the good stuff occurs!

[@TheRoboJesus]

@ordohereticus5530 @Duppyman696 @silversurfer8818 Thank you for all the info!

[@matthewross3162]

Custodes are a melee powerhouse, in reality a powerful range army would murder them!

[@guygranger6510]

Space marines were created to be expendable, astra militarum are very expendable. You cant put the gilden boys in those scenarios as they are whole heartedly not expendable. Deamons never die, custodes do.

[@Burn_pits]

The thing is that this doesn’t fit the storyline. I love me some costodes action but with the recent novels they are being unleashed like a dagger to swing those conflicts with teleportation strikes on the heads of the enemy. Rho, you forget who has returned. He is older, matured, he understands his calling, he is legion, his numbers are infinite, and he is the lion. The lion will be the sledgehammer blow the chaos scrubs tried to prevent and failed. He had rallied his sons and I mean all of them. He has a legion now and the most recent book stated that there thousands upon thousands loyal dark angels that got caught in the middle of that war. The lion will be the holy wrath and shield of the emperor because that’s what he was always supposed to be. Horus had to be the one but the lion is the emperors holy champion. They were always supposed to be the best, largest and strongest. I’m not a super dark angels fan but you can see it in everything building up to this moment in the novels. The way the lion talks about him not shying away from his duty and who he was always supposed to be. The custodes are who they are and they will always be that wild card who is directed by the emperor for those crucial parts that need to be achieved but the custodes never numbered in 50,000 to 100,000 plus. The lion is coming and he is bringing legions like never seen before in this time because he has one with the lost sons plus we are about to find out how non compliant the 1st has been since they were supposedly limited to a 1,000.

[@falsehero2001]

AWAKEN, MY QUIVERING ABS!

[@johnnieschatz693]

LEGIONS 😊

[@bw040690]

If they where a more renewable resource.....fuuuccck yes. But they most certainly are NOT. Neither are the grey knights but I would do this but with grey knights instead, growing it into a lethal legion of magic upholding the highest standard as always for testing potential psykers. The goldies are just too expensive, literally, lord knows what kind of wealth it takes to make one. Every one dragged down, even after say a 1,000/1 kill ratio, is still a unique masterpiece dragged down after killing a thousand clones of clones or spores of spores, ect.

[@IAQMas]

Whats kittens real name?

[@PositiveVibesz]

Yay!

[@mikemoore2791]

They are 100% for the Emp Not capable of being anything else. But He is mostly dead. How does a mind like that deal with the failure of their innate duty. What do they then do??!! Hmm

[@timz4217]

Wait don't the custodes get beaten by every one

[@hanshinlee4937]

Making a custode army doesn’t seem smart seeing they don’t fight together (they can but they’re more individual). Why don’t they make the custodes chapter masters of the astartes, they’ll be basically the primarchs

[@JB-mb1ro]

Nah, they have to stay home to protect the throne.

[@wellhungindung]

'they have never turned and never will' But they did during the latest Siege of Terra novel. So...

[@gigglehurtz3167]

well, they didnt so much as turn as horus personally over powering their will, in fact their minds were still fighting it as their bodies were forced to act against their wills. They were crying tears of blood i think.

[@wellhungindung]

@@gigglehurtz3167 They did turn on the Emperor, so my original post is correct.

[@Boon2Dock]

@@wellhungindung Being mind controlled and willingly turning are two different things.

[@wellhungindung]

The effects are the same. They turned on him.

[@wellhungindung]

@@Boon2Dock You said it yourself, willingly turning. So you admit that they turned on him.

[@judowrestlerka]

This is only ONE reason that "The End and the Death Part 1" is a failed attempt at closing the Seige od Terra series.......Traitor Custodians. No Fucking. Way.

[@lordamega3183]

No

[@flexmode5301]

Cypher just whooped there asses broke out of jail whooped the dark angels ass and could of ended the emperor so omegan/cypher is powerful as hell but to get to the thrown again wtf custodies are busted

[@fluffmma9076]

BTW.....Custodians Can AND HAVE been corrupted by chaos....FACT

[@RobouteGuilliman-M41]

Angry, 'rage blinded' combatants are stupid, and do stupid things in combat.

[@Dreadbringer]

A grey knights legion would be a kick to the face of the big 4 of the warp