THE EMPEROR AND OMEGON! PROOF HE KNEW OF THE TWINS?

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're discussing the Emperor of Mankind and the twin Primarchs of the Alpha Legion. Alpharius and Omegon. How the Emperor did indeed know of the secret twin!
General Spoiler Warning to begin as the events we're discussing today are from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!
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[@silversurfer8818]

The pod before him was a clone of his father's, but growing faint and indistinct before his eyes. The ground was dark, the night sky was starless, and for a moment Argel Tal wasn't sure whether he stood on the surface of a world or the deck of a powered down ship. As his senses faded, he caught a momentary glimpse through the viewplate on the pod´s bulky front. What ever moved within the incubator had too many limbs to be a lone child. //The first Heretic, P:312

[@Duppyman695]

The Emperor said "I 'am the emperor of Man" Omegon said "I 'am Alpharius" to which the Emperor replied "No.... your not!"

[@yerauldda6955]

Surely the emperor would have known the difference between 'your' and 'you're'

[@KaiserAfini]

*He starts to hyperventilate* W-wha ? I....then... who....AM....I ? *Omegon would never get over this existential crisis*

[@Cas8228]

@@yerauldda6955 The Emperor doesn't follow your "grammar rules" . He makes them

[@Duppyman695]

@@yerauldda6955 I don't know depends what school he attended 😁

[@brendan-kfp7.62mmminigun4]

​@@yerauldda6955Maybe he's speaking High Gothic amd we are all stuck in Low Gothic.

[@martinphillpot2010]

The Emperor walked past the pod and counted to two. Also, there was a growth sequence not included from Alpharius - source is the raven guard story when Corax is using the primary data to sort out his legions geneseed. Two of them, smaller to fit in the pod.

[@Dadecorban]

Anything else is fucking stupid.

[@sgs9932]

Similar source found on Lorgar's story by ADB, where Lorgar have vision about the twin in a pod.

[@metabladesarchive]

I always assumed the warp spirit within the twins was more special than the others in that it can divide it's power evenly among the new bodies. Like a Hydra. I mean their sons look like them, and they can even make demi-primarchs.

[@AlternicityBlogspot]

Omegon deserves his own Primarch novel. Also: Omega Legion, we need it.

[@cjh.1920]

I didn’t realize I wanted that.

[@ToitleInTime]

The xenos showed the twins two futures. I think that one of the twins (Oregon?) set forth to bring about the one that they thought was optimal, siding with Horus. Alpharius, the loyal Terran raised black ops Primarch, remained hidden in the eventuality that the other future should come to pass instead, as insurance. Once his brothers faded away into myth and memory, he would then be able to move events from the shadows, without the danger of being scried out by them. With his loyalist marines among traitors, and traitors among the loyalists, he shapes the destiny of the Imperium to suit his own mysterious ends.

[@lobsermahn7262]

Alpharius Oregon 😭

[@michaelhowell2326]

The Kabal. What a joke. They were just afraid of humanity taking its rightful place at the head of the universe. Eldrad knew.

[@Fordo007]

Not to mention their prophecy made no sense. They mentioned how the First Primarch found was important and how they thought it was Horus... and how the last Primarch found was important and how that was Alpharius-Omegon. But Alpharius and Omegon know Horus was not the first... they would know the whole Kabal prophecy was built on a false premise. Unless they went ahead with it assuming Alpharius was the first and Omegon was the last... either of them going with Horus because of the Kabal made no sense.

[@Toppsie84]

When Horus was sent back in time to view the chamber with all 20 primarch pods, looking apon the pod marked "XX" he saw 2 sets of eyes looking back out at him. Pretty sure Big E would have looked at the pods once before allowing them to be scattered

[@V.B.Squire]

Visions from chaos were meant to manipulate "Everything is canon not everything is true"

[@Toppsie84]

true, but they did this by hiding the set up or shadowing the result. they would never bold faced lie. Besides the viewing of the Emperor letting them be scattered was the point of it, showing his lack of empathy to his "sons". Malcador, Big E, and everyone else with access to that room prior would have known the 20th legion had twins for primachs. :)

[@V.B.Squire]

@@Toppsie84 I never believed Big E "let them" be taken, and that was rather a deep fake by Chaos

[@GameSetPatch]

Personally, I suspect that the soul Alpharius and Omegon share was meant to embody the Hydra motif. That being, if you cut off the head of a Hydra, you now have to deal with two more. The Emperor probably didn't want a forever replicating Primarch, but I could definitely see him creating a Primarch who could share his soul and thus be in two places at once. Notice how the Blood of a Primarch of the Alpha Legion can cause a legionary to adopt their physical appearance and memories? I think that once one of the Twins died, their shared soul collapsed back into one body. But when next the Hydra Doppelganger trick is used, that shared soul is split again. This would allow Alpharius or Omegon to revive each other, so long as one survives. If the Emperor and Malcador did intend to out gambit Tzeentch, this would give them an agent who could play every angle, and adapt to whatever surprising obstacles the would eventually Emperor face. This would also allow the Emperor to have a pawn who would be unlikely to be accidentally killed off by one of his loyal sons, while playing the role of triple agent. If any if this is true, then I'd wager this whole arrangement was Malcador's idea as a necessary failsafe, and the Emperor agreeing out of trust and a long running fetish for ridiculous redundancy. To be fair, the only way to defend against the machinations of Tzeentch, is to have so many redundancies, that they begin to pile up on one another into a horrific mess... And then keep adding more. From the perspective of GW, this allows them to also use the Alpha Legion however they want, to whatever ends fit their current story, and to use Alpharius/Omegon in devious ways when GW most desperately needs to tip the balance at some narrative juncture, without needing to retcon previous Alpha Legion activities.

[@Khorne__]

after all Alpharius/Omegon are literally the contingency plan of the emperor if everything fail

[@saltyshackles5227]

The Primarch first found, raised by Big E and Malcador got chopped up by Dorn...nah don't buy it. Only an inexperienced Primarch would try to challenge Dorn and that's Omegon. Alpharius has been there since the beginning, in the shadows, watching and observing. They did a switch. The real Omegon died on Pluto, the real Alpharius broke the dagger and walked away from Horus.

[@MrFallenone]

Finaly someone who understood the Primarch novel. They switched when the 20th son revealed himself to Horus and never changed back until the real Alpharius felt his brother die on Pluto and assumed the role of Alpharius once again, clearly confirming Omegon was acting as the "official" primarch.

[@alexstan414]

I feel like few people pay much attention to this. Makes me love it even more. Hydra Dominatus.

[@franciscomuniz8317]

I am Alpharius

[@gundamjack24]

Also the reason why they switched is that Omegon's reaction to other primarches would be more genuine because he hadn't met them, whereas Alpharius knew everyone of them. That reason not only applies to Horus, so the switch must be permanent to make any sense.

[@thee_pyro3590]

Kinda sucks that thanks to the writer of the book where Dorn kills Alpharius it is set in stone(until GW retcons it) that Alpharius (the one on terra) is the dead one and Omegon is alive. Doesn't help the writer of head of the hydra says this book doesn't change the placement of where each primarch was during the HH.

[@WarofRuin04]

I feel like each primark was made to be a different version of the emperor own body and powers. The fact that one is twins proves to me that he knew from the beginning

[@Dadecorban]

It's not even debatable. It doesn't require this assertion. The Emperor fucking made them. End.

[@WarofRuin04]

@@Dadecorban fair and true

[@CGossRunnn]

I love how The Head of the Hydra took elements from all the various stories of Alpharius Omegon's origin to make it seem that all stories were true and false at the same time. Alpha Legion perfection

[@headlibrarian1996]

Not only could the twins not shield their thoughts from the Emperor, Alpha Legion legionaries surely couldn’t either. It seems vanishingly unlikely that they would not only never think about the twins in the Emperor’s or Malcador’s presence, neither of them ever read the minds of those legionaries even accidentally.

[@davidthomas2870]

The question is: how many of them actually knew, or even now know, and how often were those that knew in close enough proximity to the emporer or malcador for them to be read? I feel it is likely that not every alpha legionary knows, and that perhaps most of the primarchs didn't know although several clearly at least suspected (Lorgar and perhaps Russ), but it's likely that the existence of the Twins isn't well known

[@pentacosttb2565]

I think it's almost certain most of the Legion were ignorant of the fact. It's standard practice with espionage to compartmentalise knowledge to reduce risk, if your agents don't know more rhan the minimum they need to compelte rheir tasks, then should they be captured, the wider operation is not put at risk. I think the reason we've not seen Alpharious in 10 millennia is because keeping all the plates of his Legion spinning is a 24/7 job, and he's the only one who knows (almost) everything they're up to and why.

[@saltedllama2759]

@@pentacosttb2565 None of the Primarchs are (or were) capable of shielding themselves from the Emperor, not even in the Warp. Even when Horus was Warp-tripping through time with the Chaos gods, the Emperor from the past could still see present-day Horus watching the memories happen, and then dusted the Chaos gods away with the flick of a wrist. Alpharius isn't above that or even close to it. We also had confirmation that Russ was able to tell Alpharius apart from any other of the Alpha Legion, no matter how he tried to hide himself. There was another female character - who's name escapes me - but could always tell the difference between Alpharius and any claiming to be him. She could tell that "he was more, both in size and stature, as well as presence" that other Astartes (which disproves the neckbeard theory that he was regular Astartes sized). As to Omegon, I 100% promise you that the Emperor knows of his existence, importance, and nature.

[@joecampbell3660]

Those vertical lines being perfectly in line with the twins faces is my happy place lol

[@BerathorPainting]

I just read "The Board is Set" for the 1st time and man was that an amazing read.

[@chitwn9891]

Who? That's Alpharius you're talking about. Never heard of this Omegon fellow before. Hydra Dominatus!

[@trajanfidelis]

Of course Big E knew hes made some mistakes but he's not stupid, Alpharius had to get his intellect from somwhere. Hydra Dominatus!

[@kelceydane5874]

I'm pretty sure the biggest Alpha legion secret isn't that there was two, whether they are loyal or not, which one if any are dead, but that there were three.

[@doktorpaver5470]

And that explains the two missing primarchs

[@joshuaashkar6644]

the third head of the hydra is the legion itself, as they don't subscribe to the centralised model. the alpha legion is very decentralised that they all know the mission and that is what they work towards. it is a very current western military command structure. You can shoot the guy in charge but the mission is still completed hence the hydra metaphor

[@ericm3327]

The real secret is that they can create clones and their can be a huge number of them. Hence the whole hydra theme. One died… two take it’s place

[@YouAreAsleep]

@@joshuaashkar6644 100% agree.

[@kingsmanlad4147]

I would love to learn that Alpharius/Omegon frequently sneaks into the imperial palace to discuss topics with the emperor. The emperor permits this as he knows Alpharius' true intentions and uses him as a spy.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Can someone confirm this for me. But if my memory serves me. In the first or second book. When Horus is dying and has his spirit vision that takes him back in time to The Emperors laboratory. I'm sure when Horus looks into the pods containing the infant/fetus versions of him and his brothers. When he looks at the pod marked XX, he see's two sets of eyes looking back at him. Or something to that affect????? So even from the beginning it's established that they were split. And another thing. I'm pretty sure the Twins did switch places permanently. Right up until Omegon (Alpharius) is killed by Dorn. I do believe they committed to the switch. They were committed to their deceptive nature right down to the bone!

[@vontheunknown7982]

I mostly think about them having a third brother, that's they don't know about since they have a hydra for their symbol and the hydra seen to have 3 heads. But I could be wrong?

[@wreik]

I’m a staunch believer in a third primarch. I can’t recall in which book, but I’m near certain there’s a reference to a third SOMEWHERE. I agree that the hydra is usually three heads too, so going for two seems odd. Plus, it’s the Alpha Legion, so who knows how many there are lol

[@steve43ful]

@@wreikthe hydra is referred to as having “many” heads and usually much more than three. Some sources have it grow back three heads for each head cut off. There could be a third Primarch or the metaphor could simply apply to the Legion as a whole.

[@marceloantunes998]

@@steve43ful That's also my take one for each primarch, the last for the legion

[@129spitfire]

I’ve thought about that before but there’s literally nothing I can find on there being a third so who knows

[@markrtoffeeman]

The Third Head is the two brothers ability to place their soul into one of their sons. So that if one of the twins physical form dies the soul lives on. They can continually do this. Their geneseed converting their Legion into apparent replicas of Alpharius Omegon Why their Legion says "I am Alpharius"

[@Timasion]

You absolutely correct. The Board is Set definitively establishes that both Malcador and the Emperor knew about the twins. The Emperor may not have planned for the twins, but he knew about them.

[@IM-xs3uv]

The Emperor Protects!

[@nailboard6492]

I think The Emperor always knew what was going to happen and planned the whole thing. I also believe that he has a plan for reclaiming his sons when the end game is played out. The Emperor calls Guilliman His son and His tool, he regrets the latter and laments the loss of the former. By virtue of their purpose, they cannot afford to just be His sons, they must be His tools first so that Humanity can be saved.

[@ariels3372]

oooh good find by the way big fan of yours love your channel

[@cody1570]

Alpharus to Omegon: lets keep both of us a secret even from the big E. The big E infront of their growing vat seeing two primarchs in one tank: these two will be little raskles

[@abrohm2983]

My pet theory is that emps intentionally created both. But to hide this even from those internal to the primarch project he fudged the numbers a little but.... Omegeon is actually one of the two lost primarch and erasing that legion was a cover up to allow him to disappear and take his intended covert place with the alpha legion after being battlefield tested. The other lost legion may have even just been collateral damage in ensuring no one questions the cover story.

[@RoboKyBzzt]

My take is that Alpharius-Omegon was a single body during the incubation period, and it is one of his special abilities to split into 2 (or who know how many). The emperor should know they're already split when Alpharius was recovered or picked up the idea along the development of his son.

[@staren7354]

I am still not convinced there ever was an Omegon. We have seen in some of the source material that Alpharius could create exact copies of himself using his blood and one of his sons, he might have used that to have a conversation with "himself"...or he has a split personality disorder, he wouldn't be the only primarch with "issues".

[@MrFallenone]

Explain the alien tech he got a hold of out of nowhere. Also the exact copies is not correct. They are more like Space Marines+ they outclass other space marines but are nowhere near primarch level.

[@Maecii]

Have you read the primarch book about alpharius? Doesnt feel like split personality or clone

[@nowhere474]

THIS IS A LIE! 🐍🐍🐍

[@staren7354]

I feel like you guys don't get the "alpha legion vibe" i'm going for here...i'm Alpharius, You are Alpharius, there never was an Alpharius, we are ALL Alpharius...😁

[@thebluegremlin]

in the alpharius book, Alpharius has said that he felt something was missing and when he found omegon, he finally felt complete. Two halves of the same soul

[@marshaledrek71]

The most relevant fact-based question regarding the Alpha Legion is about Omegon, does he live?

[@unruly_ronin]

When I first got into 40K in 2022, this was my fav Legion and I learned all I could about them before I did for anyone else & I thought every group was like this. But then I saw everyone always treated them like a meme & half of them don't even know what side they're on & I used to see other Legions/Chapters all get to have extremely detailed units and homeworlds and companies and named characters and stuff, but when you go to the Alpha Legion, it's always "Oh we don't know" so I had to sort of "choose" another one lol. Coz there is just so much lore in each og Legion/Chapter & it was very confusing to me when I was learning it. So I kinda needed a fixed default Legion setup that I knew everything about, then use that knowledge as a sort of measuring stick to see how all the others compared & where they deviated coz that was an easier way for me to get all this information. The only Legions that I still have alot to learn about is the Word Bearers and the two Irons. And that's just space marines there's so many factions I don;t know anything. I barely know stuff about the Tau, Aeldari, Sororitas, literally any Guardsman regiment I know zero except those Cadia ppl who at least I know their name. This is such a great verse.

[@joshuaashkar6644]

the reason everything is cannon no matter what, is because the whole setting is narrated by the alpha legion all is true and all is false

[@akirby2886]

Great video again my friend 🙂👍🏻

[@madmerlinsart]

I think I sit on the side of, He knew! Just as he knew of the Heresy, he knew he needed the extra Primarch, one to keep the balance, so to speak, so that when the time came the loyalty of their legion would be forever in flux.

[@somthingbrutal]

as he created them, i never thought he didn't know

[@saltedllama2759]

None of the Primarchs are (or were) capable of shielding themselves from the Emperor, not even in the Warp. Even when Horus was Warp-tripping through time with the Chaos gods, the Emperor from the past could still see present-day Horus watching the memories happen, and then dusted the Chaos gods away with the flick of a wrist. Alpharius isn't above that or even close to it. We also had confirmation that Russ was able to tell Alpharius apart from any other of the Alpha Legion, no matter how he tried to hide himself. There was another female character - who's name escapes me - but could always tell the difference between Alpharius and any claiming to be him. She could tell that "he was more, both in size and stature, as well as presence" that other Astartes (which disproves the neckbeard theory that he was regular Astartes sized). As to Omegon, the Emperor and Malcador knew about him. Very few others probably knew; maybe Erda or another perpetual. We did read that there were 25 pods in the basement. If you consider 20 Primarchs, plus Omegon, perhaps Constantine Valdor (who is a Primarch in all but title in terms of size, intellect, and ability and who was there for the formation of the Primarchs), that leaves at least 3 vats unaccounted for; 4 if Alpharius and Omegon shared one.

[@justinmaitland7335]

With 20 if half rebelled or had error, it would be evenly matched, with 21, and his most trusted legion having 2 primarchs, it makes things alot easier. Yes, of course the 20th is the favored, they are the emperors eyes and ears within the legions, one of his fail-safes. But not what one would think, his enemy are the chaos gods, killing humanity kills the chaos gods.

[@slitth]

The twins were made by the Emperor as twins. And they not to hide the thoughts, they learned to hide their intentions. As to if the Emperor and Malcador know of the twins. I think they did, but could not tell them apart. Also the split of the game-token was to show that one did the bidding of Horus and the other worked on the behalf of the Emperor. The legion alway learned to have a plan within a plan. That was their true way of working. "Oh, you expect a secret plan? Here you go, a secret plan that makes sense if you think for a moment. Now I can do my real plan with out you seeing it."

[@michaelhowell2326]

Even in the flashbacks brought to, I think, Argal Tal, that he could see 2 lifeforms in their pod. So if Chaos knows this then surely The Emperor could see it.

[@minnumseerrund]

I like the warp-shenanigans theory. One, because it's a cool twist Emps not knowing about Omegon. Besides, the fact that the Alpha primarchs can masquerade as standard astartes and apparently dont register on the other primarchs scanners fill their design-requirements for the legion, without them being twins. Also, I prefer to believe that Chaos turned Magnus red cause WHY would Emps do that

[@renmus5812]

From memory I think there is a scene early on in the Alpharius book where he meets the emperor for the first time. The emperor seems to sense that something is not right.

[@mesogot]

It had nothing to do with the Emperor, but I remember read a scene in which Lorgar speak of giving his brothers books, and he said he would give two copies to Alpharius, implying to know of the existing of Omegon, or at least of the existence of a twin of Alpharius. So, if Lorgar knew, maybe it was not that big of a secret and more of a "only to those that bother to question" thing.

[@paulflory4807]

The emperor knew imo. Also feel that hidden in plain sight is that their triplets. 3 headed hydra, 3 origin stories in the the alpha legion primach novel. Both killed in the HH and scouring yet a Daemon primarch in the 41st millennium.

[@XHobbiesPrime]

I think they were twins created by the Emperor. It is mentioned that the Alpha Legion, Salamanders and Space Wolves were all held back for time compared to the other Legions. perhaps the Alpha Leion were an experiment with multiple Primarchs? Perhaps the Emperor and Malcador knew of Omegon but didn't say anything to Alpharius because didn't need to know just yet? No reason to tell him until they were sure they could recover him. No matter how Omegon came about the Emperor had to have known about him at some point.

[@Matwho]

There was one of the brothers when the pod was sent thru the warp. The other never left Terra.

[@tyrantsquirrel575]

He was grown by the Emperor in a vat on Terra, so I would assume he might know a bit about it

[@macdutte]

Nah, Big E knew... Why are the Alpha Legionaries larger than other legions and the Primarchs smaller if not to allow them to blend easier? Far too convenient

[@greypilgrim228]

Even accounting for the twins selecting specific recruits for their size and strength, that still wouldn't mean when fully grown and implanted with all 19 organs that they'd be taller than other Astartes, unless it's specifically written within the genetic code of their gene seed. As you say, far too convenient for the Emperor not to have known and planned it so.

[@Wolf-mv9sq]

Great summing up, plenty of other evidence supporting your opinion to. Of course the Emperor and Malcador knew.

[@jaanikaapa6925]

Hydra has three heads. One is missing.

[@Duppyman695]

Could this be The Legion itself?

[@jaanikaapa6925]

@@Duppyman695 Maybe. Or the two together meshed together.

[@steve43ful]

Hydra typically have way more heads than just three.

[@jaanikaapa6925]

@@steve43ful When one head is cut off two more grow. That's the problem here with the twins. Hydra moniker isn't really fitting.

[@licensed_beheader]

The first head is Alpharius the first primarch then omegon the second twin primarch and the third is Alpharius i.e the legion itself.

[@BanditUshanka]

Emperor walking down the hallway thinking to himself 🤔 weren't there three of the hydra blokes in that tube. Hmm.

[@jonharrison9222]

It’s hinted that Lorgar knew about the twins.

[@garrhetsampson]

Well of course. Big E would know who Alpharius is… since he’s now goes by CYPHER.

[@andrewbaer2820]

How did they get split and raised on different planets, alpharius on terra and omegon wherever if they were gestated in the same pod

[@yellowdancer7055]

Alpharius (or whatever one was on Terra) is essentially a transporter accident Ala Star Trek... Alpharius is essentially Tom Riker. Also it is stated several times that the gestation pod of the 20th was designed for one

[@greypilgrim228]

But during the "First Heretic" novel, Argel Tal is looking at the gestation capsules, and notices within the mist of the capsule designated XX, that there are far too many limbs for just one child.

[@thatotherguy8138]

I would PREFER that the Emperor was unaware of the presence of Omegon. The Emperor being, essentially, Omniscient, takes a significant amount away from the Emperor. And a flawed character is more easy to root for than an almost flawless character. Him being unaware of Omegon would fulfil that for me. However, given the nature of the setting, it's inconceivable that the Emperor would NOT know about Omegon. (Regardless of how much I would prefer that, him not knowing about Omegon makes about as much sense as Lois Lane not being able to tell Superman and Clark Kent apart because Clark wears glasses and acts nerdy.) The question becomes WHEN did the Emperor find out about Omegon? Personally, I would expect that he found out the moment he found Alpharius. He did not create Twins, he created a single being - "Alpharius". That he found Alpharius was "damaged", and was unable to determine what exactly was wrong. Both of them knew it was the truth, neither of them knew why it was true, nor even what the damage was. He was just "damaged". Incomplete. Something was missing. It would be nice if this was why the Emperor hit Alpharius from the Imperium, raising him in secret - he had to find out what was wrong. His nature and reason for creation made this easier; I'm not sure ANY other Primarch could possibly have stayed in the shadows the way Alpharius did, posing as an Astartes. And once Omegon was finally found, the Emperor could put the pieces together (and ironically split the pieces apart on the game board), allowing both of the Twins to take their place out in the open, sharing the role of "Alpharius". The one thing I would really, REALLY dislike is if the Emperor created twins, then lied to everyone about it.

[@ericmumper6821]

My question is: why only two? The hydra has 3 heads on the chapter symbol and two heads seems a bit underwhelming.

[@endymionmikel4022]

What makes you think the hydra only had two heads? Id say that line and the emperor being noted as a cheater by malcador the possibility is there that theres a third brother, triplets not twins

[@greypilgrim228]

It could also be the legion as the third head, or may refer only to the legion as a whole for all 3 heads, since they're all "Alpharius".

[@meateaw]

Its more likely a reference to killing one, being replaced by 2 or more. When they killed Alpharius, he was replaced by 2 or more (his legion). The death of alpharius led to the hydra sprouting more heads. (The whole legion!)

[@thatguy7072]

Alpharius's job was to watch the others. Omegon's job was to watch Alpharius

[@christophermcbride4230]

It would be wild if the Yellow King is actually Alpharius. Talk about plot twist.

[@iamcaesar6741]

I have an ampliphied theory to the Warp Theory of Omegon and Alpharius also why they are called the Hydra. If the Warp can duplicate, then why can't it not continue to duplicate? Why are there 2 Primarchs of Alpharius, why can't the Warp continue to keep making more Alpharius during the last 10,000 years. There could be hundreds of secret Apharius's clones/copies not created by science/technology but by the warp/chaos hence the concept of the 'Hydra' there could be Sigma, Beta, or Delta .... lol but could be a cool addition to the Lore. Which the Lore is always growing and evolving.

[@davyjones1335]

People tell me Omegon is most likely Cypher but seems to easy would a writer do something that easy? be more fun if cypher was a thunder warrior or something

[@greypilgrim228]

Cypher is most likely Zahariel from the "Descent of Angels" and "Fallen Angels" Horus Heresy novels. If I recall (at the end of the books, or in a short story set after them) as Luther turns on the chapters returning to Caliban to induct more recruits to take back to the legion, Zahariel shoots the old cypher in the confusion and takes his place.

[@paulsimon007]

My theory is, Omegon and his legion is one of the missing legions

[@Irishman1861]

Listening to the book Hell Winters Gate Right now i think a good topic to cover would be the relationship between chapters in the Death Watch if you have read it you will know what i am talking about.

[@davidthomas2870]

I think its plausible for Alpharius and Omegon to beleive the emporer and malcador to believe there was only one, even though the emporer surely knew. But the question really is this: did the twins KNOW that the emporer knew? Did they try to keep that hidden from even Him?

[@horuslupercalaurelian1569]

So there were 2 lost primarchs. One of those Primarchs had its Legion inducted into the 13th Legion because of his insolence and negligence of the Emperors laws, and the primarch had three choices; to be imprisoned, executed, or to be subservient to another primarch, without revealing himself.

[@joshuaashkar6644]

Apharius and omegon are 1 in two bodies and now with one dead possibly whole again. The primarch novel clearly outlines that they can feel each other across the galaxy, but can't pinpoint the location

[@V.B.Squire]

It's possible Big E didn't know because he can only sense 1 soul and thought it was on terra the whole time

[@lorddidger]

Alfarius fell into the well of eternity.

[@mitchellnelson6862]

@wolflordrho I think if you look at the beginning of tha Alpharius book. One could argue that when The Emperor looked him over after finding him on terra. He took a little extra time, examining him. I think maybe he either knew they had been split in the warp and thus he was missing some of his soul. Or the second idea of which he got confused about his newborn twins and didn't know which he got. I mean evening oh big E would get twins confused thats how it works. Just for a second. It's a parenting thing. 😂😅

[@Fordo007]

Didn't the book say Alpharius looked at the Emperor there and felt he was looking at him as though he was looking at an incomplete tool or something?

[@Galith20]

Wouldn't it be a kicker if there was a hidden third brother? XD One that only Big E and Uncle Mal knew about?

[@TheSpicyLeg]

The Emperor created the Primarchs so… obviously he knew.

[@oldlyswansea]

What book is this from ?

[@killerzillavolt2655]

I kind of hope that both are still alive

[@nicholasperfitt5803]

If the emperor and his best friend were playing Manopley what peace would he be tho?

[@Ally.Cat.252]

So why do they always say that there were 20 primarchs and not 21?

[@justarandomname420]

The Hydra has three heads...

[@jamessimpson9798]

Thank you Sir 🫖🍁👍🏾

[@vinolivieri1515]

Left your caps lock key on there.

[@TK199999]

There is an old, though now discredited theory, that states that the EoM purposely cloned/spilt Alpharus. This was under the idea that the EoM had back up plan should Chaos end up killing the Primarchs rather than scattering them. This theory also suggested the cloning couldn't have happen after the scattering. But either way the intend was for the EoM to have at least one surviving Primarch with him and under his influence. Though its not stated why the EoM would chose Alpharus for this rather any of the others. Ultimately as I said before this theory is no longer valid, though it does bring up some interesting idea's. With all that said, of course the EoM knew of the twins, it was just another plan within a plan within a plan for the EoM. Hence why some traitor space marines have called the EoM, the Emperor of Lies.

[@Jaszunai]

What do you think of the theory there were 3 alpha legion Primarchs to represent the 3 heads of the hydra?

[@przemysek2511]

For me Malcador as the closest friend (and only) im sure as hell he knew. But if were talking about the 20 i could be lying or telling the truth.

[@MetalRhino42]

Honestly i think the truth is staring us in the face. Omegon -is- alpharius. The alpharius that would be. The alpharius from some future sent back knowing everything hed say to himself just to make it right. Alpharius is his beginning and omegon is his end. One looks forward on the board and one looks back in the game the emperor and malcador play. Ordo chonus is knocking on my door with a gag order from gw, G2g!

[@Modernarcher119]

Wait I’m gonna be totally honest I did not know this was in dispute.

[@ariels3372]

and by the way i dont thin k thay will this is just such a good part of the story and i do think the most loyel is him the sword in the dark he would go aginst him self for his father now i hope its cypher but also like do you think he has dorn or is him and dorn hiding like a sword in the dark or is he in a cell he did no that his father must have trusted dorn now i wonder what kind of secert meatings did him and big e have l;ike did he tell him what he relly think of evry primarch

[@Leifthrasir]

I am pretty sure the Emperor knew and probably purposely designed the XX Primarch to be twins.

[@MrFallenone]

Well duh. Unless the warp created the twin on the way in the pod after it failed to snatch the original and only got half of the soul or whatever. The Emperor was not blind and could see the twins he created.

[@RedxGate]

Exactly what I was thinking 😂😂😂

[@perisdim]

Could Omegon be one of the two Lost Primarchs?

[@brandonmyers1400]

For the emperor

[@alecryan5962]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but it doesn't make too much sense that the Emperor would make 21 primarchs, or that he would destroy two of his most valuable weapons pre-heresey. Sure, he may have ordered their legions destroyed, but why kill the primarchs of the lost legions? I'm pretty sure I remember a lore snippet from a custodes book or codex that suggests one of the lost primarchs is being held in the dark cells. What if the other was "rescued" by the Alpha legion, physically/genetically modified to resemble Alpharius, and became Omegon? That would bring the number of primarch back down to and even 20, and give the Alpha legion more secrets/backstory.

[@greypilgrim228]

Doesn't work when they're described as one soul in two bodies, two distinct Primarchs with distinct genetic templates would would be poles apart, not just in personality but in height, no matter how changed you make their appearance, and the twins were identical in every way. They were also much shorter than any of the other Primarchs, and deliberately selected their legion's aspirants on height so each legionary would be taller than any other legion allowing the twins to swap places with their captains and each other freely.

[@michaelhowell2326]

And it is very heavily hinted that it's probably the 2nd or 11th primarch.

[@tedybomber1713]

SCOTTY DIDN’T KNOW!

[@peterga3658]

i dont think its an opinion about who was first... i think the story says Alpha was right ?

[@paul-antonywhatshisface3954]

Nah omegon. First line is I'm alpharius, but that's a lie. Then when he meets his bro, his bro introduces himself as alpharius.

[@Alf_Hairy-arse]

​@@paul-antonywhatshisface3954actually at the start it says "THIS is a lie" and at the end "THAT was a lie" the intent is we, as the reader, do not know if the "this" and "that" refers to the sentences of "I am Alpharius" or refers to the contents of the entire book. It's the whole point of the book (and really clever).

[@paul-antonywhatshisface3954]

@@Alf_Hairy-arse your being too broad in your interpretation, the last line of the book is ambiguous but the first is not and through the fact that unless we are going to dismiss the whole thing as nonsense we know that the twin on the planet directly introduces himself as alpharius. My interpretation is that the point of the book is that the identity of alpharius as a whole is a useful construct and this goes further into the fact that the legion itself is the same. A legion in name, only when it suits them, same with Alpharius/Omegon.

[@Alf_Hairy-arse]

@@paul-antonywhatshisface3954 I don't remember him introduce himself as Alpharius, guess I'll have to check it out again. I definitely agree with you about the use of the name and that it was a major point of Alpharius' story (within the setting). The change of "this" and "that", and their change of placement before and after the "I am Alpharius" is definitely intentional by the author to cast doubt on everything (in real life). After all you can't really believe anything the Alpha Legion say and GW want to keep the mystery alive and not put too many definitive truths. Back to your point, it's kind of ironic really that we spend this time debating if it was Alpharius or Omegon because even Alpharius would say it's irrelevant. Everyone is Alpharius, and no one is Alpharius. Hydra dominatus.

[@paul-antonywhatshisface3954]

@@Alf_Hairy-arse hydra dominatus brother

[@Alpharius87]

I approve this video

[@Fireguy716]

Omegon is the primarch of the 11th legion. :)

[@markrtoffeeman]

Of course He knew The Emperor works in mysterious ways to us mere mortals Are we sure that their were only two? That three headed hydra Legion geneseed has some odd properties. Very odd indeed

[@markrtoffeeman]

Quote "Before we go, let me say this: I understand the conflict in your hearts, how one may beat for duty while the other bleeds for your Legion brothers who will be sacrificed. But this is civil war. It is a time of confusion, and realigned loyalty. We have many heads but we act as one - one Legion with a single will. We are a union of the alike and the like-minded. We will not tolerate treachery. We will not allow our compact to fracture. We will not suffer the short-sightedness of our brother Legions, nor the averted gaze of the wider Imperium. We are Alpha Legion and we take the long view."

[@ragingmoderate6791]

I believe every other primarch knew and they just played along.

[@toomaskotkas4467]

I think... Hydra Dominatus

[@timothylyons5686]

Games Workshop can retcon the lore whenever it wants.

[@waynegoddard4065]

Hydras have three heads.

[@firebat2k3]

I know I am in the minority, but I believe Alpharius is alive. Dorn killed an Alpha Legionnaire that was closely bonded, but Alpharius is deep undercover

[@peterolofsson9871]

Considering the emperor created the primarchs I highly doubt he wouldn't know about omegon. Maybe he was black out drunk? And forget about omegon and created alpharius? Who knows.

[@Tropicoboy]

This alpharius art makes it look like he is a Wearing a fleshmask under his eyes it looks like saggy flesh

[@michaelgautreaux3168]

Alpha. 40k's Jekyll & Hyde.

[@lincolnosiris3665]

Why not...he created them after all. Why shouldn´t he know?