GUILLIMAN'S REACTION TO GABRIEL SETH! THE DOUBTS OF THE FLESH TEARER!

Hey everyone and a Merry Christmas! Today we're discussing Roboute Guilliman's reaction to Gabriel Seth of the Flesh Tearers! How he knows of his doubts about him...
General Spoiler Warning for today as we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe! As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself!
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[@HeroRyzeD]

Seth: “Ultramarines in red armour!” Me: ~checks 10th edition rules and army structures~ 🧐🧐🧐 HE’S OUT OF LINE BUT HE’S RIGHT!

[@terranbrah]

Gabriel Seth is a great example of a Blood Angel, he has the same drive for service to mankind as Dante, but he and the flesh tearers live closer to the edge, just a few steps away from the rage, just raw unrelenting power

[@BloodyArchangelus]

he is just rebirth of amit

[@fulrocker890]

@@BloodyArchangelusGabriel is literally nothing like Amit lmfao

[@christiandauz3742]

Aren't there only a few dozen Flesh Tearers left who aren't Primaris?

[@Ryuzakku]

@@christiandauz3742 Yes, since most of them died holding Baal Secundus, but were replenished thanks to Guilliman.

[@Cubert0331]

Lol sometimes when the FT show up it's game over for chaos and an imperial citizens. That black rage and the blood tithe.

[@chrisgarbutt1893]

Gulliman's reaction is the reason he's my favorite primarch. He feels the most human out of all of them, and despite the horror he deals with. In the end, he simply wanted all of his brothers and the Emperor to be one big family of equals.

[@andrewbyrne2173]

I’d argue that Vulkan was more human, but I understand where you’re coming from.

[@chrisward5043]

i do agree also and i love the images of the salamanders been nice to the people they come to help out of all the space marines you want to land on your planet , its vulkans faction @@andrewbyrne2173

[@oatlord]

I've said this as well. He is, ironically, the most relatable character in the whole IP. Haven't read a lot of Vulkan stuff though.

[@viridisxiv766]

Vulkan is too much the nice guy. Roboute has a more balanced, and therefore relatable personality.

[@greatamazinga]

💯 agree!!

[@SoulCrusherEx]

To see Guiliman respect and not question Seth's loyalty so much is probably also stemming from the War records of the Flesh Tearers

[@minhducnguyen9276]

Gulliman:"it's just a phase, he'll come around eventually"

[@DestronGaming1213]

“Ultramarines in red armor” made me laugh for some reason 😂😂😂

[@bloodofsanguinius4222]

Happy Sanguinalia, and Gabriel Seth needs a new model, he is a legend

[@cottermcg123]

If they make him a primaris I’ll have *”conniptions”*

[@jonharrison9222]

He’ll get one eventually, as will all the major SM characters. And Seth has come to accept the Primaris.

[@jeffreykuhnel5581]

I’d say it would be possible that if Seth gets a new model, *hopefully*, that he could still be firstborn. Maybe with a hybrid mk 7/10 artificer style.

[@cottermcg123]

@@jeffreykuhnel5581primaris really ruined 40K space marine lore and aesthetic, everything being in one mark of armor for the generic units is a let down. At leas the DA, black Templar, terminator and scouts are good. But even still they need to move past literally everything being mark X derivative. IE: terminators ands scouts

[@shaunlavalley1131]

I am pretty sure that Seth would still agree whole heartedly with Amit's appraisal of Guilliman. And I quote: "Roboute Guilliman. Guilliman the tactician. Guilliman the warrior. History will remember the Primarch of the Ultramarines by many titles. To us of the Blood he will have only one - Guilliman the butcher. With law and edict, Guilliman ripped the heart from the Legions. Even his own sons were not spared his treachery. Where Horus had sought to use a hammer blow, Guilliman used a duellist's blade. In the end, the result was the same. Brother became cousin. Cousin became exile. Guilliman's new chapter, his new beginning, was a sundering to all that had come before. Stripped of honour and tithe, of history and deed, we were all of us undone. Bastards of war and victory, we were Angels no more."

[@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it]

He ripped the heart out of the legions, realised he buggered up despite the chapters still kicking ass with their limits and so he brings in his heresy marines to undo it. I'm still mad about the primaris idea. At least some chapters just straight up gave him the finger and subverted his Codex.

[@jonharrison9222]

The last 10k years have pretty much proved Guilliman right, so…

[@CitizenPoe]

Don’t tell them that it will break their Chaos loving minds.

[@biggusdickus9734]

Tell that to the poor sods who got obliterated by their supposed allies.

[@mikhielthorsson6033]

Guilliman is and always has been a traitor. Read my comment, and you'll see why I believe that. They will always be the ultrasmurfs, full of hubris. Guilliman should have been the primarch for the 2nd or t 11th legion. The setting would be better off without daddy smurf in it. But one of the creators screwed the pooch by making the ultrasmurfs the poster boys of mediocrity.

[@jimatulkerriganus4316]

Hearing Guilliman saying that and other qoutes it make me believe that he - after his rebirth - is no longer the primarch of order and organisation, but rather the primarch of "balance". Maybe even "harmony" because he knows what kind of galaxy he's in and searching for balance and harmony within the imperium is the most important thing for him in order to not recreate mistakes of old.

[@AngryBootneck]

I like the Fleshtearers it’s good to have wildly different chapters.

[@AbadonXXX]

Mental image: guilliman having a “hear me out” moment, but to discuss the case of gabriel with mephiston

[@Mahbu]

He understands Gabriel Seth is venting frustrations but will ultimately do his duty and he has. . dare I say. . faith things will work out.

[@mouseketeery]

I'm not really surprised by Guilliman in this matter. After the Heresy, at the intended breaking of the Legions, Nasir Amit went to Guilliman to argue with him. There was a lot of shouting. So much, in fact, that Guilliman punched Amit in the stomach to make him shut up. Amit, of course, just started shouting again! Nevertheless, Guilliman still insisted that Amit found one of the new Chapters and had relic armour reforged for him. Twin chainfists and Storm Bolters because he knew Amit would enjoy them. The Fleshtearers are probably not to Guilliman's taste, but he still values and trusts them.

[@Ha1cy0n]

Seth probably get his face knocked in like when Garro told Dorn that Horus betrayed the Big E.

[@Epsilvonic]

Seth: “We are nothing without the struggle against it; he would make us Ultramarines in red armor” 30k Blood Angels: Am I a joke to you?

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

What does this comment even mean?

[@MalfunctioningAndroid]

@@c0ldsh0w3rprobably thinks that pre-heresy BA didn't have problems with blood consumption.

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

@@MalfunctioningAndroid low effort reddit level memes are the worst thing about warhammer.

[@benjcommons78]

The 9th legion were brutal beasts and were looked down by the other legions. They were sent to fight alone in the most savage conflicts....then they found Sanguinus .

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

@@benjcommons78 that doesn't really explain the comment up top

[@timothylyons5686]

A better question would be what does the Lion think of Gabriel Seth.

[@randomdude8202]

I like this

[@cmdrblaster]

I feel like Sanguinius would be disappointed in Seth, since he would understand in using the power of their curses. But it doesn't mean he approves or like it. And if Sanguinius was alive again and Seth knew about his disappointment... Seth would have such EMOTIONUHL DAHMUGHE! That he and his fellow chapter brethren will never recover from.

[@Victard]

Sanguinius would definitely be disappointed. Would be fun to see Seths reaction to Sanguinius' disappointment, most of the angels sons have forgotten his view on his legions flaws.

[@ravanpee1325]

Seth is just a modern Amit and way more progessive than him

[@Motard.Actual]

I don’t know, I don’t think it would be disappointed. Sure Seth uses the rage, but so did the OG flesh Tearers from the crusade days.

[@saltedllama2759]

Very similar to Ferrus and the Iron Hands. He viewed the flesh as weak, but meant only that he believed they could use their flaws, rise above them, etc., to become better. He HATED the idea of replacing body parts with metal and would be severely disappointed in how they have since interpreted (and perverted) his words.

[@saltedllama2759]

@@ravanpee1325 Regressive, not progressive.

[@jasonparrish8670]

I think it's also worthwhile to acknowledge that the Astartes' are really the second iteration of the Emperor's vision, with the originals being the Thunder Warriors. The Big E's fiat to Corax, following Isstvan, for producing an improved Astartes show that Guilliman wasn't committing heresy by ordering Cawl to proceed, but following the long-term strategic objectives of his father.

[@SoulCrusherEx]

Devastation of Baal is by far one of my most favourite books like the Fall of Damnos. I as a Dark Angels fan gained lots of respect and love for the Blood Angels

[@belgerod]

Guilliman is one of the best things about the Imperium now. Seeing chapters push back against Guilliman and Primaris reinforcements is interesting, and a good way to quickly identify which chapters don't personally interest me.

[@ural8884]

How did Gabriel Seth react to primaris falling to black rage? Maybe a video idea of chapters reacting to primaris having their flaws/addons?

[@John-jc3ty]

seth in the foreground: well, i wil be damned

[@Makorze]

It made him accept them as true battle brothers because it was proof they were Blood Angels and not "Ultramarines in Red".

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

@@Makorzesort of, I remember form somewhere him saying to a primaris captain “what do you think will happen when the rage claims you?” Got the sense that he thought they would be the death of the imperium.

[@Makorze]

@@Prophetofthe8thLegion That was also Seth pointing out the difference between power and experience. He was referring to spiritual side of being a Blood Angel and what it actually means as Dante points out they have no knowledge of either flaw.

[@Raumance]

Black rage isn't an abhorration like red thirst.

[@werty4895]

@WolfLordRho mate just one correction, Amit was the Flesh Tearer, he founded the chapter on his name during the 2nd founding. Love your video, good to Roboute valuing a dissenting voice to keep him on the straight and narrow

[@Marcher1977]

When Primarchs and Space Marines get angry, it always comes off as a child having a temper tantrum, which would make sense since they're children that were never allowed to grow up naturally in giant bodies.

[@kharnthebetrayer1575]

You know , I can understand the fear that 1st Gen Marine felt . Look at Thunder Warriors and what happened to them . Good to see G man had built in updates for the older guys .

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

Well only the custodes know what happened to the thunder warriors and by custodes I mean just valdor cause the rest who were there are dead.

[@Uzzgub]

A Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm

[@chucknorrisbeard4091]

A contribution for the Contribution Commander

[@A_Laughing_Matter]

Comments for the Comment Throne!!!

[@theodoremccarthy4438]

If nothing else, the dogmatism of the current Imperium has likely forced Guilliman to reexamine his own doctrinaire impulses and to see the value of a more tolerant and flexible prospective.

[@worldman3218]

If only Seth knew that if Sanguinius knew that G-man could cure the rage, hawk boy would jump at the earliest opportunity.

[@TheOuroboros84]

the blood angels and its successors are probably some of the most appealing chapters because there is absolute proof that their Primarch is dead. And I really hope GW doesn't bring him back because that would serverly undermine what they represent right now.

[@DeathWatchChampion]

They'll all comeback soon enough. Seems like they're setting up for an end times for 40k just like they did for fantasy

[@DeathWatchChampion]

There's even dialogue in one of the Horace heresy novels about bringing ferrus manus back

[@bulwyf2572]

All of them can come back. Either through clone bodies that you then pull the soul out of the warp back into it OR with the galaxy torn open with the great rift you can easily have "Angel Primarchs" as well as Demon Primarchs. the mechanics of how both work are the exact same.

[@Cubert0331]

Sanguinius will come back eventually, the pieces of his soul are out there, it's just going to take a massive amount of power to bring them back together.

[@nukem8128]

​@DeathWatchChampion end times for 40k will never happen, it's far too popular.

[@glenntierney9578]

As a dark angels fan. I'm loving all these new models. For the lion!

[@andrewbyrne2173]

Loyalty is it’s own reward.

[@jonharrison9222]

Guilliman has always been the great pragmatist among the Primarchs.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

While the loss of cultural identities is regrettable, without Gulliman's policies there would be no place for the space marines if the imperium ever finally conquers the Galaxy and wins its peace. He's the best compromise they'll ever get.

[@Ragehaven]

So many folks don't seem to understand Guilliman. Neither his brothers nor his allies. He is a good man who just wants peace

[@worldman3218]

I love how so many characters in the setting just straight up chastise G-man for his "ambition" To expand his empire and be the "emperor" Like dude, G-man's retirement plan after the heresy was to fix the imperium's logistics and after achieving that, go to an isolated planet, start farming and live a simple life.

[@yomommashouse9594]

which is also kind of a retarded notion from them in the current time to chastise him when he could have literally just went full send on becoming a tyrant when he learned he was nothing more than a tool to the Emperor. Theyre lucky hes who he is if it was say Dorn they wouldnt live to see the sentence even finished.

[@daweimer71]

It simply proves that a returned R.G. is one of, if not the, wisest of his brothers. I also think Lion is going to be a lot more even tempered and wiser going forward compared to what he was in the past. Gabriel Seth is one of the best chapter commanders imo and the Flesh Tearer's chapter culture is more unique and appreciated.

[@Ultramar565]

You feel for Guilliman not only is he alone but is tasked with saving an Entire universe it can't be easy even for one as talented as Guilliman .

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

Guilliman and the Lion should form a corps from chapters or chapter strength detachments from each blood line. A combined arms corps if you will to be the multi tool, the special corps for each of their crusades. The Ultramarines, lead by Guillman lead a crusade of, a special corps, Ultramarines successors, Sister, Mechanicus, guard. The Dark Angels under the Lion leads another with the same composition with Dark Angel and their successors. This would free up all the other blood lines to work locally.

[@jonharrison9222]

He disbanded the greyshiejds because of political concerns about wielding a legion sized force, so…

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

@jonharrison9222 8 Chapters are not even close to a Legion scale force. 8000 Astartes at most.

[@SacredGumby]

12:15 its funny how everyone is so worried about what's happening in Guillimans house all while ignoring the corruption happening in their own back yard. Meanwhile Guilliman chooses to only see het best in everyone else.

[@jonharrison9222]

Yes that’s why he purged the High Lords and ruling class of Ultramar, isn’t it…?

[@andrewbyrne2173]

Appreciate the Christmas content.

[@RedComet666]

absolutely loved it

[@kentbagaipo3368]

Merry Christmas to you Wolf Brother!

[@Nibelheim1989]

Wholesome intro, wholesome activities and a good video. You spoiled us. 🎅🎄

[@Aethelwolf]

I have read The Devestation of Baal several times. One of my favorite novels.

[@yomommashouse9594]

15:19 ‘What I would not give for another loyal brother of mine,’ he mutters. ‘This is a heavy burden to bear alone.’ ‘Even Russ?’ Kai asks. The Lion thinks about it for a moment. ‘Even Russ.’ Hands down one of my favorite parts of that book and really emphasizes how much Guilleman feels alone if even the Lion did to the extent that he'd want Russ around lol. The returns have made me appreciate Gorillaman and the Lion more and more.

[@alexandercastillo2519]

Merry Christmas! I see you are a man of culture as well.

[@OniFeez]

Guilliman's 'acceptance' of Seth's comments is kinda naive in a sense, plenty of Blood Angels and their successors have fallen to Chaos (or at least, Renegade) in the past, frequently as part of the Red Thirst. But, I didn't interpret his comments like you did, I interpreted them more as a mark of respect to the beliefs of his brother. Remember that everyone supposedly liked Sanguinius. Roboute himself made him 'Emperor' of Secundus as well. Sort of like how he did basically the same thing with Dante millennia later with Nihilus.

[@jameskenny3024]

Merry Christmas!

[@aaronnelson4929]

Very very good book. This my go-to channel for 40k recommendations.

[@vladline1882]

He can tell that to Cawl. Cawl will ridicule him his comment of his work

[@warmaster-1]

Merry Christmas 🎄

[@richardkneller7887]

Guilliman has grown to fill the role of the new emperor.

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Gabriel Seth is my boy! Too bad he always gets coal in his stocking.

[@kilgoretrout7389]

Merry Christmas

[@Joseph-mw2rl]

Seth: Guilliman? More like Girlyman

[@VallornDeathblade]

Gabriel remains one of my favorite characters in all of 40k. Despite his flaws and the ravages of The Flaw he emobdies "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" in its totality. He refuses to let his chapter dwindle to nothing without a fight and seeks to embed them into history with all the violence the Flesh Tearers can muster so that in another 10,000 years the name "Flesh Tearers" will still be spoken of with honour.

[@cesarerinaldi6750]

🟢 I'm still confused as to which sounds better: the Alpharius Heresy (embracing Slaanesh, the six-headed serpentine Hydra) or the Abaddon Heresy (embracing Nurgle, the Lord of Locusts)? Alpharius because he is truly the first to be found and harbors deep resentment towards the Emperor just like Horus (with the Laer Blade that makes him descend into excess together with his Legion), Abaddon because he is the architect (with the Anathame Blade that makes him descend into corruption together with his followers). ⚫

[@ryanperez5457]

You need to do a video on the likelihood of Guilliman declaring himself emperor. I don't think he would but Id love to hear what others think.

[@theflyingiguana8464]

YES IM WATCHING ALL 3 LOTR MOVIES EXTENDED ADDITION TOO

[@professorsponge1554]

"the first born marines are mostly extinct" This should mean the death of the imperium. Cawl's mutants should have gone the way of Bile's New Men. The Thunder Warriors were right. "He doesn't love you, space marine. He will cast you aside when he is through with you."

[@brettnyrehn261]

But that isn't quite true. He wants humanity to be safe and protected. If hed succeeded, maybe he wouldn't have needed them all. And would have eliminated them. But Horus, being an angry man child, didn't think about the species. He only thought of his own ego and such. Emps always did everything to try and restore peace and the golden age of humanity. He wanted a time when the idea of needing superhumans would fade. He was the one who wanted humans to be the lords of Terra. Not Primachs, not marines. He wanted humans. Because the marines were isolated and so far removed from what mortals think, feel, deal with. They had no right leading and dictating everything for those who arent like them.

[@giocrypt5148]

This sounds familiar, you know who thought the same way? the traitors.

[@rain89skarlet80]

my christmas tradition is watching brave heart

[@40kbrit47]

Ah a fine Christmas present from Wolf Lord Rho, Merry Christmas.

[@Dadecorban]

All these complaints about Guilliman amount to "This is the way we've always done it", and minimizing "this is the way we've done it because Guilliman decided it" and completely ignoring the arbitrary and changeable nature of all of this. None of it is higher principle.

[@ElJorro]

Merry Candlemas!

[@justinianthegreat1444]

If it was during the Horus Heresy, Seth would get slapped by Uncle Bobby G

[@fosphor8920]

"They were bigger, faster stronger..." - Rho "And more lame!" - Me

[@lavatun]

I'm curious how seth would react if he was told sanguinius wanted to expunge the thirst and rage?.. Coz if i remember correctly, sanguinius looked at both as curses and great flaws..

[@Ower8x]

Well just the Thirst .... as the Rage did not Exist before Sanguiniuses death but same principle

[@1dwkjr]

People associate Sanguinius almost exclusively with Dante, but Girlyman knows how seth represents him as well.

[@amitacharya8167]

What you talking about my legacy?!?!

[@KaosandRiot]

I always wonder if the BA and associated chapters could come clean about the curse and rage. Explaining it away as a religious vision or experience that only the elect are blessed with and framing it as a way of righteous vengeance Well it might work until they started the whole vampire thing on guardsman. Them and Dark Angels need some serious therapy

[@91ATLbraves]

I do all the DR. Who Christmas specials every Christmas.

[@WorldOfWeebcraft]

I also watch all the lotr extended trilogy at xmas!

[@buryitdeep]

Happy for new players to own the new models, however I wont be crossing the rubicon and keeping and using all my first born.

[@Frosty-kz4om]

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I realise I don't hate primaris. I just hate the MkX armour. If primaris just turned out to be an upscaled, updated MkVII, I'd have been happy.

[@Just_Pele]

It was nothing more than ignorance from Gabriel Seth. He didn't even realize that Sanguineous himself would have turned to Chaos, actually attempted to turn, just to save his sons from the flaws in their gene seed. The sheer amount of disgust and disappointment from his primarch, if he could have been present, would have disintegrated Seth where he stood.

[@benjaminrobertson2990]

I don't think so. Sanguinius certainly did want a cure for his legion's instabilities, was desperate for one, but that was him thinking as their father and acting out of compassion and empathy, qualities he had in much greater quantity than most of his brothers. Sanguinius was himself shaped by exactly the struggle Seth describes in the video's quoted dialogue. He had to grapple with his rage over and over again, from his earliest days on Baal right up to the very end. It was a personal moral and spiritual struggle that not many of his brothers ever attempted. Knowing that part of himself, and fighting it for control of his actions, was a huge part of what made Sanguinius so unique among the Primarchs. It gave him perspective, humility, and a degree of genuine sympathy with the struggles of common humanity that made him such a great leader, and probably the best potential successor to the Emperor of all the primarchs. I think if Sanguinius were able to hear Gabriel's words to Dante here that he'd be forced to recognize how true they are for himself. He would never wish his curse on his sons, because Sanguinius was an essentially just and kind man (by primarch standards), but I think he would be forced to recognize the role the thirst and rage played in making him who he was.

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

Wrath of the Lost by Chris Forester has been reviewed so badly I even saw alot of people questioning why the Flesh Tearers were a thing because the book was so bad and portrayed them so badly.

[@attilasmash]

Man oh man , I was so looking forward to reading Wrath of the Lost and boy let me tell you, the way Chris Wraight wrote it paints them in the most atrocious way. All this all stuff that gets described in the book should already have them pretty much declared excommunicatis tratoris by the inquisition or at very least a nonstop pennace crusade. How Gabriel Seth can be so against primaris marines when he barely has any regular marines to fill even a damn chapter monastery give me a break. I really hope GW gives them a chance for redemption because they need as much as they can get.

[@christophermcbride4230]

I think the legions should be reinstated. What better way to reconquer the galaxy drom Chaos than Legions 2.0? It'd be like discovering the Primarchs all over again. 9 loyal legions in a fresh crusade? Come on

[@gigglehurtz3167]

Love me some blood angels, dont love me the chapters who ya know, feast on us "mortals"

[@guyshafor1320]

I just found out Guilliman's first name is Rabootay.

[@theKaisersose101]

hah, good choice on the hobbit and lotr ED. my sisters watch all the harry potters over christmas. would much rather have tolkein works

[@ArtsiBurn]

The Hobbit gets talked down a lot but I never agreed I think those movies are awesome 🙏

[@Vaultkid21]

My girlfriend listens to rho or remembrancer every night because I can’t stop falling asleep to WH lore

[@sempthegreat]

It's sad that GW has decided to mostly drop the Primaris lore. Imho, Primaris made Space Marines interesting again, something they haven't really been outside of the Horus Heresy. GW overracted on the backlash of the minority unfortunately, and failed to listen to everyone who loved their introduction.

[@kphan4643]

Guilliman actually talked to the emporer, but space drama karens are all like "i know what the emporer wants"

[@vonkug]

Guilliman can't afford to censure even a single loyal asset. He needs every bolter he can get his big blueberry gauntlets on.

[@Ng-zg4dq]

Ave Christus Rex

[@joema48]

Why did girlyman think that every chapter is just going to let random marines serve in ther chapters?

[@johanstinson]

I'd be fine with the Flesh Tearers being wiped out completely. Such a boring and derivative Chapter.

[@brettnyrehn261]

I think he sometimes forgets emotions when it comes to decision making. But when reminded of it, he reacts to that appropriately. I think he also assumed that with how short handed the chapters are, they would all accept reinforcements. He also forgets how...dogmatic even the non religious chapters are when it comes to the Emperor. Especially since when he left it was only barely starting to really crop up.

[@ravanpee1325]

@@brettnyrehn261Dogmatic...mentioned by the smurfs who are ultra dogmatic about the Codex Astartes

[@vontheunknown7982]

Due to the fact a lot of space marine chapter number would running low or dying out, thanks to the great rift and many other dangerous things that happen. Also, some of those random are primaris marines, who soon later got the black rage.

[@andrehardy4721]

That whole book series is so dope, the Devastation of Bale a must read. But what the hell happened to the book Leviathan when did the ultra Marines become so stupid. All of a sudden they don't know what Gene Stealers are, like how many wars have you been in with the tyranates. That book is garbage

[@pinorska6316]

7:05 "rather then reinforcement" Did you really just use "then" incorrectly?

[@SacredGumby]

10:20 Ultramarines were what all spacemaries were supposed to be.

[@lowlygrinder2977]

My problem with it, is that real Space Marines kept humanity as a whole safe for ten thousand years, while Guilliman slept from his wound he got for his hubris, which he didn't learn from with his encounter with Mortarian later. But when Guilliman comes back from his break, he just looks at the first born and says, not good enough I'm replacing you, hell he was replacing them even before he had his nap. That is no way to treat those who held back the tide for ten thousand years, if anything it was Guilliman who failed, he underestimated Fulgrim, underestimated Mortarian and had to be saved by a young girl, a priest and a Cannoness who knew better then him, overestimated himself, wrote a codex he then undid, devided the legions which he rejoined in all but name, replaced Lords of Terra and put himself at their head, despite Primarch not being allowed to rule Terra after Horus, had those same Lords betray him, and spends all his time whining and moping because he has daddy issues. I loved Guilliman before he came back, I was an apologist for him, but his lore now sucks, plus I don't trust him, too much heretek and Eldar in his return, same goes for Sigmar in Age of Sigmar, where he ran away leaving his people to suffer and die, locked the doors and then returns thousands of years later and expects everyone to cheer for him as the returning hero.

[@JK-1975]

The idea that BA are somehow lessened if they don't have to fight against the rage, IS blasphemy, it's spitting in the face of the BA's who served directly with Sanguinius before his death, for those angels did not suffer the thirst or the black rage, they had to control their inner anger sure, but they were not infected like the BA of 40k.

[@sevlow4048]

You say they are our saviour, but they are our replacement. They may be physically better but they are still worse

[@TruculentSheep]

A high handed, micromanaging pedant is going to have more blind spots and follies than you can shake a bottle of blue paint at.

[@Aaron-uj6iy]

Honestly the only reason Seth was wrong was because gw backsteped on the whole the primaris have no flaws otherwise he would have been right seeing as if I recall right (can't remember were I read it or what chapter was involved for the reference sorry) but one chapter did remark that the primaris delivered by Guilliman acted like ultra marines while wearing different colors and saying they were from a different legion, and while I'm glad GW took a step back from them being flawless I still don't really like them and will probably stop playing space marines if all first born are fased out one thing I think gw should do so that they can keep their extra special super soldiers and first born is just reveal that the primaris are more susceptible to chaos then you'd have your "better" fighting force without having to get rid of the first born plus it would help with adding more tragedy back in with the space marines instead of having chapters that were on the brink of destruction with really cool stories just getting fully reinforced no problem and now there is an excess of them with new chapters everywhere no problems (although at least it somewhat seems like gw is trying to put some more stakes in after if felt like they ripped out most of it withe Guilliman, the primaris, and that tech heretic)

[@iatebambismom]

Well, Guilliman didn't deny Seth's accusation, and Ultramar has always been almost a breakaway Republic.... When it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[@Vampireknight99]

Frist born all the way

[@fin1493]

It's so bad that the first born have been made as such.

[@viridisxiv766]

The red thirst is a feature, not a flaw. The legion was originally called the flesh eaters ffs. As such the flesh tearers are closer to the emperors original vision.

[@HappyBirthday0707]

No hate but the Blood Angels were originally called “The Revenant Legion” before they were reunited with Sanguinius, not the “Flesh Eaters”. You might be thinking of their moniker of “Eaters of the Dead” which was more of a describer than the actual name of their legion - and indeed they were well known for eating the flesh of their enemies. But I don’t think this was the actual NAME of their legion. Just to be clear I fundamentally agree with your point and think that the idea that they were originally meant to be there berserker legion is the correct one.

[@viridisxiv766]

@@HappyBirthday0707 thankyou.

[@sarethuskami5082]

It's a feature for the PLAYERS. A way to make chapters distinct. In Universe? It's a big damn flaw and Sangy himself wanted it gone.

[@viridisxiv766]

@@sarethuskami5082 if thats true then why are the gene flaws of other chapters not shown in the rules? why do only some chapters have flaws? if what you say is true then all barring maybe one would have a gene flaw and they would all be represented in the rules. theyre not. i accept that some chapters are under supported but that doesnt explain it.

[@warpjediAK]

I have to say, the whole primaris are just better thing grates on me. for the simple fact of their relative inexperience. A new recruit to a chapter will surely pale in comparison to a guy with 500plus years experience, irrespective of his physical traits? You see the importance of the experience in the heresy lore with the massive levels of attrition in the inductii who on paper are the equal of the existing legionaries, but in practice mostly were cannon fodder.

[@bryanmcmahon8593]

The inclusion of the Primarus all those years ago cause me to give up the hobby entirely. I dont regret it. They are a heresy, and there is not other interpretation that isnt a complete retcon of the setting.

[@sejannus877]

The primaris project was a mistake on GWs behalf.

[@garvielloken10th]

I love Seth, but he acted like an ungrateful child.