The Minivan Segment is Dying; U.S. Faces Another Chip Shortage - Autoline Daily 3906

[@henrymiecz8566]

The minivan segment is so dead there is only a 20 month waiting list for Toyota Siennas. Pacifica sales are tanking because of the MASSIVE price increases.

[@tren133]

Why isn't Toyota making more then? Toyota sold around 150,000 Siennas per year in the 2000s, down to 100,000 per year in the 2010s, and now it is more like 60,000 per year in the 2020s. Ultimately there appears to be a demand issue due to American consumer tastes insisting on buying big on the outside but small on the inside 3 row crossovers instead.

[@anydaynow01]

Agreed, the Odyssey and Sienna pretty much just took over the market.

[@DeadAir21]

Pacifica’s have always been propped up by the car rental industry. Take those sales away they’d probably sell half of what they do now.

[@henrymiecz8566]

@@DeadAir21 Oh so there are no SUV's on rental lots??? WTF RU talking about?

[@DeadAir21]

@@henrymiecz8566 all I’m said is the reason why the Pacifica is 40% of the minivan market is because they sell most of them to rental fleets. This is more me talking about how it’s not as popular as the numbers show.

[@nvn2005]

7:30 the escalation in price is to blame for minivan sale drop

[@frankcoffey]

And all other cars including Jeep but it would appear minivan customers are more price aware and if the price gets too high they are in the SUV price range with better resale value.

[@mrjim1973]

The Pacifica is the volume leader, racking up 120,544 sales and enjoying a 22 percent increase, but the Kia Carnival (up 122 percent) and Honda Odyssey (up 57 percent) achieved even bigger jumps.Jan 4, 2024

[@kennedyracing7527]

The problem is Jeep and Ram want to much money for their cars

[@bobwallace9753]

Stellaris took a 'everyman's' brand and tried to turn it into a luxury brand. El screwup.

[@dougsheldon5560]

So they'll probably give Carlos a raise.

[@2Mortal]

Definitely a golden handshake.

[@ethanwelner1230]

He and the board got their payouts, i'm sure plenty of them sold their stock at the peak. Companies like this aren't run to be successful in the long term and Stellantis is the Boeing of the auto industry right now. Money men have just looted it and are now jumping ship as it sinks.

[@mikafiltenborg7572]

😆

[@DouglasLippi]

7:42 too bad. Minivans are such great utility vehicles. More cargo space than SUVs.

[@_PatrickO]

Minivans are not dying, manufacturers have been gouging on minivans making them unaffordable for the families that need them. Tons of families need them but cannot afford them. The CEOs will kill any product that doesn't support their unlimited growth. As soon as they tank a product's sales by trying to gouge, they will cancel the "failed" product and try to gouge somewhere else. All the nonsense started when execs paid themselves tons of stock they could take loans against. That means stock price must go up at all cost, causing all the gouging and anti-consumer behavior. The biggest scam of our lifetime was the 1 dollar salary in lieu of stock. These people pay themselves so much free stock they secure board seats and then ignore the company's health, shareholders who actually paid for their stock, and employees.

[@henrymiecz8566]

The price increases at Stellantis has tanked their sales.

[@tren133]

Are you saying people are secretly wanting to buy minivans but are forced to buy Tahoes and Pilots and Tellurides instead, because those cars are so much cheaper? No, American soccer moms simply don't want to be seen in minivans anymore, but are perfectly willing to overpay for less useful but more macho looking 3 row SUVs. The result is lower minivan sales, and only those who truly want minivans will buy, and Chrysler/Toyota/Honda/Kia are more than happy to make those folks pay a slight premium now that they no longer can sell minivans in large volumes like they could 25 years ago. The 3 row SUV is simply killing minivans in the same way minivans once killed the full size wagons which came before them. Think Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser from That 70s Show.

[@_PatrickO]

@@henrymiecz8566 That is what I said. They are constantly trying to milk more profits from their products just to support executive enrichment (this funds fun stuff like diddy parties). If a product doesn't have extremely high margins, its a failure to these vultures because all that matters is their lifestyle of being rich and doing no work. They would rather go bankrupt looking for a niche where gouging works, than to just make good products for sustainable margins. They'll be forced to sell their personal stock by the bank if they cannot maintain unlimited growth to cover the interest so they only want that happening in bankruptcy. The sickest part is the golden parachute. This is what allows them to milk a company until it goes bankrupt. When a company fails due to this ridiculously bad management, ceos get paid huge bonuses in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. The bank takes the losses on the now worthless mortgaged stock, so it is no big deal there to these rich people.

[@henrymiecz8566]

@@tren133 Ya that's why there's a 20 month waiting list for the Toyota Sienna which is easily the longest waiting list of all Toyota vehicles. You want SUV's there are tons of them on every lot but no minivans and true of every manufacturer. Clearly you have been brainwashed by propaganda with SUV's.

[@tren133]

@@henrymiecz8566 I can assure you of no such brainwashing, as shown by the slightly dinged up Kia Sedona in my driveway which took my entire extended family to go see the eclipse some months back in quiet comfort. Good luck doing that in a clunky Chevy Tahoe. But facts are the facts. Even with a long waiting list, Toyota will not be building more Siennas any time soon simply because most people are not buying them now, and even fewer people will buy them in the years ahead. In markets where consumers (and businesses) are willing to buy more minivans, carmakers will make them. It's that simple. I can name like 10 brand new minivans that came onto the Chinese market off the top of my head, many of which are even fully electric, simply because the MPV segment is growing in China, so carmakers from all over, including even GM, will build those types of vehicles. The reason they are not doing so in the US ultimate is a result of Americans not willing to buy them in increasing numbers. Yes there will be a few diehard fans waiting in line to buy the Sienna or Ody, but Honda and Toyota will not be devoting more money, resources, or production capacity to minivans in the US market in the future, and that's just a fact, whether you like it or not.

[@kevtheobald]

Being a CEO seems like a scam. They are paid insane amounts and even if they destroy the company, they walk away with millions. All this hate for labor getting pay raises while top level management jobs are getting millions no matter how good or bad they do.

[@snookmeister55]

It's not a mystery why CEOs do so well. The board members are of the same ilk and they stuff each other's pockets.

[@bobwallace9753]

@@snookmeister55 There does seem to be a rich guy's club and they look out for each other.

[@snookmeister55]

@@bobwallace9753 I'm convinced that it works that way quite a bit, not saying 100%. I've watched it happen.

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "Being a CEO seems like a scam." well no "seeming" about it, it's been this way since the arrival of Robber Barrons like Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Gould, Fisk, etc and the famed Stock Market Crash of 1929. now repeat after me... "being a CEO is a scam FULL-STOP". you must get the courage to see reality and deal with reality.

[@maestrovso]

Karma for Stellantis price gouging during the supply constraint post pandemic.

[@stargazer3828]

I'm sure the Stellantis CEO will be just fine if the board fires him because he already locked in his $39.5 million dollar salary despite the company doing so poorly! Imagine if regular citizens could get fired from their job and yet somehow make more money as a result!

[@Cakebattered]

No outrage over CEO compensation, but tons ofonline outrage over East coast Longshoreman going on strike for better pay.

[@nguyep4]

Because that $39M gets those guys $100 more per year. And most of the time these are through stock compensation.

[@henrymiecz8566]

They do it's called severance.

[@bobwallace9753]

If a company does not set executive salaries on performance, they are screwing themselves. It needs to be both a short term and a long term performance goal.

[@stargazer3828]

@@henrymiecz8566 You cannot live off of severance pay indefinitely, but you can off of what CEO's get - BIG DIFFERENCE!

[@mikedx2706]

Carlos Tavares: from hero to zero in about one year.

[@2Mortal]

Carlos probably salivating at the prospects of a golden handshake.

[@davidmenasco5743]

The only reason any of these major company CEOs don't retire filthy rich after the first year or two, is because then they'd have less to talk about at the club.

[@Mike-Minion]

As i said a while back. Stellantis is circling the drain and now it's just positioned itself just a little lower in the drain.

[@tren133]

Well they own a nice chunk of Leapmotor, who just set like 4 monthly sales records in a row and makes some of the best value for money electric (and EREV) crossover in the world! Plus Stellantis has majority control of all international Leapmotor sales. A Leapmotor C16 is like getting 90% of a Kia EV9 at 40% of its price! It would sell like hotcakes in SUV crazy US market and save Stellantis' bacon! Oh wait I forgot about the 100% tariff...

[@faheemabbas3965]

That’s funny. Isn’t Mitsubishi bringing the DX concept (a PHEV off-road minivan) from the Tokyo Mobility Show into production AND bringing it to North America? That’s according to the Mitsubishi Momentum 2030 press image.

[@WildernessExcursions]

It'll be interesting to see how well it sells once it does come to NA. I think it'll do really well. We own an L400 Delica (JDM Import) here in Canada and absolutely love it.

[@kevinW826]

@@WildernessExcursionsI want one of those, but my wife says no.

[@WildernessExcursions]

@@kevinW826 Years ago, my girl felt the same way. But since we do a lot of mountaineering, canyoning, camping, etc., in the backcountry. She soon realized that it was the best vehicle for what we were looking for. Now that we've had it for 3 years, she's the biggest Delica fan. It's far more capable than we could have ever imagined.

[@camgere]

Chip shortage 2.0. Car dealerships prayers have been answered.

[@stevepailet8258]

What shortage? why do I just figure they are using this as an excuse to slow down production of over produced vehicles that are clogging the dealers rot lots?

[@remix-yy1hs]

Watch inside china business channel. Don't you think china has thought aboit that? All car chips are made in china not taiwan. China wont be short on nothing. Next time ask yourself ? What is china doing about it.

[@im4udevco]

What goes up as a result of greed will eventually crash. So long Stellantis.

[@maestrovso]

The top news in this segment is Yamaha partnership with Caterham.

[@edbern7387]

With declining sales chip demand is now lower so why the shortage....automakers need to upgrade the chips they are using to the modern chips used in all the other tech gear.

[@simson4t]

It sounds so smart, but if you listen the current problem is the shortage of the material to make the silicone, doesn't matter if it's old or new chip you can't make it without silicon.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@@simson4t My understanding is chip makers are not willing to go back to making many older chip designs using old process technology, they would rather use a more modern process with modern chips as they retire their older plants. During the auto market slowdown, these makers were basically abandoned by the legacies, so they diversified with other customers who want modern chips, now legacies are coming back to them but they already shifted their priorities and technologies away from providing those older designs.

[@davidmenasco5743]

I think it's called "just in time."

[@junehanzawa5165]

Stellantis/Chrysler's hesitation on electrification is finally coming back to bite them. Tesla's sales are down due to the upcoming Model Y Juniper. Everyone is waiting for it and holding off on buying any Tesla. I don't think Tesla will be able to keep up once it goes on sale.

[@mebran1193]

We love our Pacifica

[@drjekelmrhyde]

Sliding doors on mini vans make them worth it IMHO.

[@edwarddejong8025]

The caterham project is very exciting. A super light car, will be incredibly fun. I hope they put enough money in it to make it a higher volume (and less expensive) product. So sick of these under 1000 units/year vehicles that nobody ever gets to have outside collectors.

[@RB-pi3jl]

Those that can't see Tesla is THE growth stock, need new glasses. Elon Musk even said the majority of Tesla's future value won't be in autos, but rather in autonomous driving, artificial intelligence, energy storage, and robotics.

[@gmv0553]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@godofdun]

I think supply has a big part of the minivan decline. Toyota/Honda make too few of theirs so it's always a wait list and markups, Kia dealership experience is pretty bad with few exceptions, and Chrysler upped the price too much.

[@stevepailet8258]

Linimar likely has enough inventory to be able to ship for atleast a month

[@bobmcnulty3500]

I heard Stellantis has roughly one year supply of vehicles sitting on dealers lots so I doubt they would be effected by a chip shortage anytime soon. 😂

[@CedroCron]

Stellantis is way over priced for what you get and their Quality has gone downhill!

[@iahlee]

I call chip shortage bullsh!t. This move is to boost sales since nothing is selling

[@2cartalkers]

Minivans ain't so mini, they have turned into Bluto-mobiles.

[@drjekelmrhyde]

This so much. My girlfriend had to get a rental Pacifica, because her Hyundai Santa Fe had to fixed from a accident. That Pacifica barely fit into her garage, while the Santa Fe fits just fine even with the back hatch/door open.

[@judyArsh]

The Pacifica is listed for Lexus prices. Especially the higher trims. Every other minivan option is cheaper, more modern and better equipped. The financial party at Stellantis was due to last of their kind special editions of the 300, Charger and Challengers. With the tooling paid off long ago they were pure profit.

[@mrjim1973]

Minivan segment is hardly dying, but if you say so... The Pacifica is the volume leader, racking up 120,544 sales and enjoying a 22 percent increase, but the Kia Carnival (up 122 percent) and Honda Odyssey (up 57 percent) achieved even bigger jumps.Jan 4, 2024

[@stickynorth]

Shit or get off the pot, as the old saying goes... Companies either need to lean into BEV's wholeheartedly and make them mass-market mainstays or close up shop. The option of milking ICE vehicles for profit while losing cash on niche half-hearted BEV attempts just isn't going to cut it in an industry dominated by the Chinese and rightly so. Quicker product launches, more competition, dynamic designs all while keeping the consumer #1 in their minds... The way the USA used to be...

[@chiliphil64]

I don’t understand a one-week strike that brings the whole industry to a screaming halt. That’s only a 2% change. The industry moves more than this in a month, so all the hype about the strike is rhetoric.

[@gmv0553]

You have no clue!

[@hellogoodbye.]

Stellantis needs to give the USA brand to a USA company

[@urbanstrencan]

Really don't know what is happening with Stelantis, here in Europe their brands like Opel, Citroen, Peugeot are doing quite well. And can't wait for Caterham to hit the road

[@shiftintohigh5564]

Carlos...another one....get the money and run.

[@baronvonjo1929]

You can only get one type of minivan. The large three row variants that are very expensive. There are so many CUVs for sale at various prices and sizes to choose from. Also people think they are ugly. You cant help that.

[@1hjehje]

I live in Alberta, Canada and I tried to purchase a new Honda Odyssey in 2023. I had placed an order and after more than 6 months of waiting, with no delivery date in sight, I cancelled the order. Early this year I was still unable to find a Honda Odyssey or Toyota Sienna on a dealers lot and the Toyota dealer would not accept a factory order. Vehicle availability was based on manufacturer allotment. I have no intererst in American or Korean products, so I was finally able to find a new Honda Pilot.

[@snookmeister55]

Just last year, Carlos bragged about profit margins.

[@wdefghjuefhdegtfthtgf1351]

Also with the air very few fraght air craft can handle cars as they are loaded from the side and fewer and fewer boeing 747s being used as it can be the perfect plane for this as its nose opens on many of the freighters

[@davidgold5961]

It’s an exaggeration to say that the minivan market is dying. It’s more accurate to say that it is shrinking quite a bit, but they will always find a buyer for that type of vehicle.

[@Gadfly2025]

Carlos greedy for USA $$$

[@bidon5037]

I was sure last year party would soon be over at Stellantis because the pile of cash was just non investment in the future.

[@MM-sf3rl]

Public transportation is looking better all the time.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

Very few Americans can use that however.

[@faheemabbas3965]

Depends on if the country changes enough that we won’t have to worry about our safety on busses and trains.

[@davidmenasco5743]

​@@faheemabbas3965No, it depends on whether the country changes enough that there are more than purely token amounts of busses and trains. And then, yeah, it will also depend on perceptions of safety, which is a completely different question from actual safety, and has completely different drivers.

[@MM-sf3rl]

@@davidmccarthy6061 Just a quick Google search. “Some 21% of urban residents use public transit on a regular basis, compared with 6% of suburban residents and just 3% of rural residents”. 21% isn’t “very few”.

[@wchen315]

Don't go there. Look at the California high speed rail!!!

[@mtumasz]

U guys need some fresh b-rolls. These are cars in ports are getting overused (and not currently on sale)

[@RAYDEEY17]

Few people are having kids. Having kids is expensive. The minivan segment will continue to dwindle

[@daves1646]

Sales / value: Maybe Stellantis is still tied at the hip to Mercedes ….

[@matthewrideout2677]

you do not want to piss off the Italian government

[@wchen315]

Open the market to Chinese makers, you will see what people really want, not what people could afford.

[@jimliu2560]

So why the chip shortage……just print more…

[@rp9674]

Cateram Miata with Bently taillights

[@Vikingj72]

This is how the rich keep getting richer. Carlos will quietly leave Stellantis along with his top staffers and fat wallets. The hell with the people left behind that count on the company to be successful.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

It's hilarious that Elon is still pretending his driverless taxi concept will be viable.

[@bobbbobb4663]

A week out and zero permits worldwide. You know its bad when all Permabull Adam Jonas has left to hype is supervised taxis and a new app (which exactly zero owners are asking for).

[@AlexWall-z5n]

then stfu about elon musk if your gonna type that

[@tren133]

It's not Elon's fault I tell you. It's those pesky regulators who have stymied his autonomous driving dreams for like the past 10 years in a row!!!

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@AlexWall-z5n Someone is salty that they have to work as a taxi driver to meet the $30k number Leon promised.

[@AlexWall-z5n]

@@bobbbobb4663 it was like a grain of salt doing that comment

[@blito3wot]

shhhh...i hear you can actually build a car not using chips....but keep that secret.

[@rogermartinez78]

Robo Taxi is a gimmick and won’t stop the bleeding at Tesla.

[@ethanwelner1230]

Crossovers literally are just minivans. That market section is alive and well, it just has pointless styling pretending to make it more masculine.

[@AbdulAli-ci7mz]

price gouging

[@bobwallace9753]

If you wanted to make some money selling Tesla short, you could predict a very unlikely high production expectation and grab money as disappointed people dumped their stock. What did Tesla predict? What argument did the analysts make to support their prediction that was higher than Tesla's? Smell a rat?

[@gmv0553]

The only rat I smell is Musk!

[@DericO-rz3be]

Tesla RoBLOW Taxi... more Elon spectrum shizzle

[@jeff-jo6fs]

i hope none of those poor stranded souls in NC have an EV

[@tren133]

Depends on what happened to their cars. A flooded EV likely gets totaled just like a flooded ICE car. But if your town did get cut off and lost power but your car did NOT get flooded, well many EVs have V2L functionality which means their owners can use them to at least keep some essential appliances going in their home for days on end. I believe there was a guy in NC who used his EV to keep a fridge going, which allowed his entire neighborhood have a place to store vital medications which need to be kept refrigerated.

[@davidmenasco5743]

In past emergencies, many EV drivers have reported that they helped a lot of neighbors get around after the gas stations all went down. And, maybe you missed it, but ICE drivers were definitely not having a party this week. I'd sure hate to be waiting in one of those long gas station lines when the shooting broke out.

[@baronvonjo1929]

I live in SC and owning a EV would have been terrible. Power was out for days.

[@davidmenasco5743]

@@jeff-jo6fs On second thought, the severity of damage to the grid in this case would make it much worse than the usual hurricane in Florida. But here's the catch 22. If you buy ICE, because you think it would be better in an extreme weather emergency, the result will be that your emissions will create more extreme weather. By that, I mean extreme weather events that are both more frequent, and even more extreme than this one. There is no doubt that the unusual extent of damage caused by Helene was the result of greenhouse gas emissions warming the waters of the Gulf. What we are seeing with these extreme storms is just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg. Getting off fossil fuels is absolutely necessary if we want to avoid the eventual economic collapse of the United States.

[@davidmenasco5743]

@@jeff-jo6fs Reports now are that the fuel shortages in the damaged areas is so bad that the entire surrounding region is impacted with fuel shortages. And very few gas stations in the affected area are even operational. So, ICE is no panacea. Those helping in the recovery efforts are saying that solar generators will be much more helpful than traditional generators during the recovery period, due to the fuel shortages, and logistical issues with fuel delivery.

[@bobbbobb4663]

Tesla 10/10 News: Permabull Jonas confirms supervised taxis well past 2030! Watch out Uber and Lyft -- here comes Gryft! BTC Minarchy, Davey Beppler, and Busto 911 are now taxi drivers for Leon! As expected, GED Alan needs a remedial driving course!

[@phillyphil1513]

re: " Watch out Uber and Lyft -- here comes Gryft!"

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@phillyphil1513 thx. Help spread the name!

[@zeusman123]

The segment is not dying. Better choices from Hyundai and Kia are taking the minivan market.

[@stevepailet8258]

not worried about tesla.. they are still growing and frankly if you look at berlin and austin plants neither one is finished ramping.. The reality its that there are still large areas that are not yet built out/ Look at how the 4680 lines are just coming online in Austin.. How much new equipment is still arriving every week.. Berlin at this point seems to be the secondary in getting ramped up.. no batteries being produced that I have seen yet. They are producing model y but are they even geared up to produce model 3 at this plant? or cyber trucks Or semi ??

[@gmv0553]

They can't sell the ones they build now! You cannot use your excuse when they are building more vehicles then they are selling! Look at the numbers!

[@stevepailet8258]

@@gmv0553 interesting comment as Tesla is selling within 4 weeks every thing that they make. They continue to grow quarterly even though they have not finished the two plants. They are well on target to produce 50000 cybertrucks and have once again taken over the sales leadership in the EU Suggest you check the 3rd quarter results.. other wise people might thing you are not bright enough to do so