The Modern Practice of Greek Polytheism | Exclusive Interview with George Lizos

Join us on a profound journey into the heart of modern Greek polytheism with George Lizos, author of "Secrets of Greek Mysticism". In this exclusive interview, we delve into the practices, challenges, and spiritual insights of contemporary Hellenic polytheism. Discover how ancient traditions are being revitalized and adapted to the modern era, offering a unique perspective on spirituality that connects deeply with nature and the ancient gods. Whether you are a follower of Greek polytheism or just curious about alternative spiritual paths, this discussion sheds light on the fascinating revival of one of the world's oldest religions. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and support our journey on Patreon to explore more hidden wisdom from the past!
George Lizos book: "Secrets of Greek Mysticism"
greekmysticism.com/
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Team:
📝 Presenter: Michalis Michailidis
🎬 Director and Editor: Adam Petritsis
#AncientGreeceRevisited #AncientGreece #Documentary #ancientreligion #olympiangods #georgelizos #secrets_of_greek_mysticism #theology #mythology

[@seanbaumgardner5641]

Fantastic video and conversation. I have been a Hellenic Polytheist for over a decade, and this was concise, clear and enjoyable. In addition to the part on Dionysus, I remember reading an epithet or hymn that said "He who unties from anxiety and fear." This has always stuck with me and I think is applicable to this day and age.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much for watching, and I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I'm really happy you enjoyed the conversation. :)

[@Reikidreams911]

I am soo grateful for this. I am a Druid from the UK who has found my way back to the gods of my childhood. Nice to see others keeping the old gods alive. I don’t think it matters if we change it up. After all the gods have to fit the changing ideas of man and as they reflect I expect they have changed too.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

I've had some insightful experiences at Druid festivals in Glastonbury a few years ago. I'm really happy you enjoyed the conversation, and thank you for taking the time to watch and comment.

[@Reikidreams911]

@@GeorgeLizosTV I shall be watching again as I’m off to Delphi soon to play my lyre to the gods

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

@@Reikidreams911 You’re going to love Delphi. I’ve had some of my deepest spiritual experiences there. How amazing you play the lyre; what a gorgeous gift to offer the gods while there. Enjoy your trip, and keep me posted on your insights. 🏛️🌈🧡

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much for having me, Michael. I loved our conversation. :)

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

It was our pleasure George, thank you! 🙏

[@maria369]

Checked your channel. Eisai pragmati kragmeni

[@paulrudiger2552]

​@@maria369Εσένα πιο είναι το πρόβλημα σου; Σε προσβάλει μήπως η παρουσία του;

[@maria369]

@@paulrudiger2552 Εσένα πιο είναι το πρόβλημα σου με το σχόλιο μου?

[@paulrudiger2552]

@@maria369 Όταν βρίζεις κάποιον, πιστεύεις πως δεν υπάρχει πρόβλημα;

[@mariahschnee5159]

Fantastic interview! Don't let the haters dim your light!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you, Mariah. I appreciate you taking the time to watch it.

[@CatharinaBroermann]

Thank you for being you, George! Thank you for being a wonderful teacher and thank you for encouraging me on my journey. Sending you love!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for showing up and doing the work, Catharina. I appreciate your kind words. 🌈🧡

[@VY15904]

Great discussion between the two participants. It’s inspiring seeing a modern take on old ways and seeing Greek Polytheism ushered into the new era. Keep up the good work.

[@Venus_Mystika]

George is so knowledgeable, I love his perspectives and deep wisdom of an old soul

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much, lovely! I appreciate your support. 🧡🌈

[@TreeofHelll]

Polytheist here. Answering the first question about line of lineage. There is only the relation of a God and man which is the basis of my polytheism, not being initiated by anyone.

[@SargisZ]

I really enjoyed the conversation between George and Michael, bringing more to light the visions and wisdom of the Ancients. Job well done!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you, Sargis. 🧡

[@maddysinclair5232]

Really enjoyed this discussion! Great questions and George's responses were really interesting! I loved the passion and authenticity of both these guys. I'd love to hear them do another one!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for watching, Maddy! I’m really happy you found the conversation valuable. 🧡

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Thank you very much!

[@PaulaNicol]

Interesting video & conversation. Love George's passion about this subject and look forwards to reading his new book. Thank you!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much, Paula! I hope you enjoy reading the book. 🥰🧡

[@NatashaTyrimos]

What a fantastic interview! Thank you for being you George, you are positively glowing ☺️ Some people just can’t handle how fabulous you are. That says a lot more about them than it says about you. Keep shining 🌟⭐️✨

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Aww! Thank you so much for the kind words, Natasha! 🥰🧡

[@amystearn]

More great insight by George. Just finished Secrets of Greek Mysticism, and I appreciated the new insights and spiritual information to help me along my journey. I’m half Greek and have been looking for exactly this knowledge to gain perspective on what my ancestors knew. So thankful for your work and don’t let anyone tell you anything other than YOU’RE AMAZING! Thanks for being you ;)

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Aww!! Thank you so much for reading the book, and I’m so happy it helped you connect more with your roots, Amy. 🌈🏛️

[@keenanarthur8381]

The human-human line may have been cut, but the human-divine line is trickier to sever. One of my mentors (specifically mentoring in Northern Tradition shamanism - Norse/Anglo-Saxon spirit work) co-authored a book called "Talking to the Spirits: Personal Gnosis in Pagan Religion" outlining a balanced approach between direct experience of the Gods and rational skepticism

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

The problem is that direct experience (speaking from experience) comes to us formless. It’s not Greek or Norse, it’s direct. The vessel is Greek, or Norse. And the vessel is broken, leading to the question of whether it can be restored.

[@dantemckoy8156]

Love this channel from Thailand

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Thank you :)

[@Louise-wd9kh]

I love reading your posts George and listening to your interviews and this is no exception. Keep shining your light and being you. Thank you for all that you give.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for watching and for your kind words, Louise. 🧡

[@hedgiecc]

Great discussion, many thanks. I'll check out George's book. I found your comments on the disenchantment of modern life particularly interesting.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much for watching, and I hope you enjoy the book. :)

[@traceywahl9490]

A little late in watching and responding. This was so interesting to watch George thank you and looking forward to reading your new book ' Secrets of Greek Mysticism'. You have always been so informative with information. Carry on shining your light because your a beautiful soul 🥰

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Tracey, thank you for your lovely words. I’m excited for you to read the book. :)

[@MrSydvirus]

What an information packed video. I ws brought to this chnnel by following George Lizos and I am so thankful to the Deathless Gods for doing so. I absolutely loved hearing this information and hearing the changes in holding antiquity theology in an adaptive modern take and the reconstructionist perspective. Definitely going to learn more about the Hellenistic group George talked about and much much more. Thank you! Great talking points.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

I’m really happy you enjoyed it and thank you so much for taking the time to watch the video! :)

[@MrSydvirus]

@@GeorgeLizosTV it was time well spent! I learned a lot, so thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. 😸

[@larrren22595]

George is the best! A beautiful soul, and I have learned quite a lot from his book and teachings

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Aww! Thank you, Lauren. I appreciate you kind words. 🥰🧡

[@Jeni-qs3bx]

Fantastic and engaging interview! Thank you for taking the time to create this video. 💜🙏

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much for watching! :)) 🌈🧡

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Thank you very much!

[@patfrancis03]

Great conversation! It was so insightful, and I loved these new perspectives! I really enjoyed this interview!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for watching, Pat! I’m really happy you enjoyed it. 🥰🧡

[@EmmaMumford]

Great conversation really enjoyed this interview!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you, Emma. 🌈🧡

[@carrieanna6684]

Thank you so much for doing this interview George! I love all the knowledge you share! Much love, Carrie

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment, Carrie!

[@jamesgrosrenaudjr812]

How do I learn more about Greek theology of the Gods

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

One of our favorite resources has always been W. F. Otto’s Homeric Gods

[@strikhaful]

Great information I had no idea about so much you shared ❤ love it!

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Aww! Thank you so much, Sneha. I’m really happy you enjoyed it. 🧡🌈

[@strikhaful]

@@GeorgeLizosTV

[@adt3030]

this is great. thanks

[@johnsdoings]

Great to see you still doing your thing. Not sure I understand it all but looking good :)

[@gabrieldifiore6620]

great stuff

[@lmmarkov]

Nice guest, loved the balance you are trying to make out here, however that impossible seems in modern world. 2 questions: Do you plan a talk with Κέων Λοκρός Εσπέριος? Also curious to know if his organisation ΟΦΙΩΝ is a part of YSEE? Thanks in advance. Every new episode is my festival!

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

I know Κέων personally. I don’t think that his organization is part of the one discussed here.

[@cosmomusa]

No its not part of YSEE

[@michellem7290]

Skimming the comments and I see you’re stirring up controversy as usual! Great interview as always. l will add his book to my list.😉

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

More than I thought to be honest. I think there is a lot of fanaticism surrounding this topic.

[@agnetassergejevas889]

Really enjoyed watching this. Very informative and interesting. Not sure about all the negative comments though. Why all the internet trolls judging how the person looks or dresses. Please have a look at yourself before judging others. If you have nothing nice to say then keep your comments to yourself. If you still struggle put your fingers in the car doors and slam it close. Peace.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much for watching, and for the kind words. 🧡

[@tompaul3097]

This was a great interview! Really liked what he said at the end about all religions being maps to the same source. The more I learn about religions and belief systems the more I’m starting to feel that way too.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for watching, and I'm really happy you enjoyed our conversation.

[@OrphicPolytheist]

Hi and thank you for this video. I'm a polytheist too, and I found that I have some different views from dear Keon. As he seems to have a more late Stoic understanding on theology and metaphysics and being on the reformist side, and I on the other hand am more of a reconstructionist / traditionalist, and I lean to the Pythagorean / Neoplatonist worldview of people like Empedocles, Heraclitos, Iamblichus and Proclus. Anyway, it was a refreshing interview, be well.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

I have found that nearly all the pagans that I’ve had the pleasure of talking to in Greece are of this “late Hellenistic” bent. The original - or inceptual as Heidegger would have said - is relatively unknown and waiting to be “revisited.”

[@OrphicPolytheist]

​@@AncientGreeceRevisited There's a lot of known elements like reincarnation, Pampsychism (the idea that everything, including animals, trees, rivers, have a spirit), good and evil spirits (Agathodaimons and Cacodaimons), exorcisms, the concept of miasma which is some sort of negative dark energy that attracts evil spirits, chronic worship done at nights with the use of sacrificial pits (Eschara), methods of divination... Quite a lot of stuff actually. It's a huge "rabbit hole" as they say in English.

[@BaltimoresBerzerker]

Great conversation! I think it's important to add that it's also about lineage. The ancient Greeks believed we were essentially degenerate descendants of demi gods and gods. This belief was shared among many indo European peoples. So I would think ancestry and ancestor worship would be an important aspect of Greek or any polytheistic tradition.

[@BamBoJam]

Pagan religions are inherently not catholic (universal). The ethnic component is already built-in.

[@user-mishapagan]

I just wanted to add, that, in polytheism there is a choice of the gods and what they represent as universal law, while being part of the same religion. There are as many opinions as people, whereas in monotheism, there is theocracy and dogmatism, that was also responsible for the reason that some people suffered at the cost of satisfaction and spiritual extasy of others.

[@XNateXXDawgX]

What about the divine mystery initiations? Isn't that different from just kindling spiritual feelings about mythology?

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

It is! Very different. But - and to anticipate your objections - no-one is initiated in any mysteries of some Western tradition. I have met a few who claim to have been, but when asked directly about their supposed knowledge, they are as lost as the rest of us. So… I decided to interview anyone who’s on the path trying to make something happen.

[@axinianazari6365]

Loved the video, though seeing how much hate and spite people can harbor is disheartening, only hoping that they’ll see the value of these teachings instead of choosing to criticize and be hateful just because they are bored and uninformed 👏🏼

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much for watching. We appreciate the support. 🧡

[@Son_of_zeus]

thank you both for the video!

[@jiotis81]

Nice interview.. but I would like to hear more of the term “Ethnic Religion”.. We also have heard some inaccuracies like “Dionysos is a new God” 53:50 even if the name of God Dionysos along with references about his worship are first mentioned in Mycenaean Linear B tablets already from the 13th century B.C.E.. But we all have much to learn..

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

True, Dionysus is an old god, in fact, our understanding is that he was a part of Minoan religion, and broke off into his own separate deity.

[@AngeloNasios]

He is one of the oldest Gods. He appears in Linear B script. But he is portrayed as a new comer so to speak mythically in classical period.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

@@AngeloNasios He is indeed. But you have to b: just because be careful here: just because his name is mentioned, that does NOT mean that this god had the same "content" for the people who worshiped him in different times. The "Dionysus" of the Linear B scripts was most likely an incarnation of the Ever-Dying and Ever-Rising god, roughly as described in the first "Zeitgeist" film. Once his culture was destroyed (potentially from the invading Indo-Europeans), he became "mad" (which is how he is called in his first official "Greek" mention, in the Iliad (μαινώμενος). I imagine Dionysus as a "Moon" whose Earth (the Earth-Mother of Minoan Crete) was destroyed by the impact of a gigantic meteorite (the Indo-Europeans). Losing his center of orbit, which defined his waxing and waning, his living and dying, he became a wonderer, who "returns" (according to one of his main traits) to drive the people mad with his ecstatic mysteries.

[@Survivethejive]

Michael’s questions were pertinent. liszos had quite a good answer for the difficult question of lineage, but ultimately if you believe in the gods then the question is really not as significant a matter as some think. I do think Lizos put too much emphasis on nature and the Earth instead of on the gods

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you for watching, Tom. :) I appreciate your comment. I'm a big fan of your work and about to start watching your vlogs from Greece.

[@amymercree5482]

What a fantastic show. George is an incredible source of knowledge and light. I am proud to be part Greek and have his work sharing spiritual knowledge that is so near and dear to my heart.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you so much, Amy! 🥰🧡

[@Justin_Beaver564]

Hellenizism is the original national identity of the Greek kingdoms

[@BamBoJam]

I’m looking forward to listening to this. But before I do I would like to make a remark. I think it’s wonderful that Greeks are reconnecting with their ancient heritage and I understand the difficulty that this whole journey will likely entail because of various historical events that we are all aware of. Despite this, I think there’s an underlying psychological or even moral problem that I see few pagans consider. Christianity didn’t only conquer the Greek pantheon and change the cultural identity of Greeks and all Europeans alike; it also changed something more fundamental and that was Greek morality, ideals and worldview. I saw a post on twitter the other day of the Olympic Committee making an offering to Zeus and “hoping for peace and prosperity” or something in that spirit. A Christian in the comments said that there’s no greater testament to the totally domination of Christianity when people who claim Paganism as their religion make an offering wishing for Peace to the almighty god Zeus. This is where even Zeus in modern times has become an avatar of Jesus. I think this is worth pondering over. With that said I’m ready to listen to your podcast Michael 🙂

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

That is absolutely true, and something that we keep repeating on our show: that many “pagans” are but frustrated Christians.

[@AngeloNasios]

Treaties were sworn under Zeus. In this regard peace is relevant to Zeus but he does not just give you peace - we have to work for peace.

[@trench01]

@@AngeloNasios Non Greeks push the notion of pagan which you guys do not seem to understand the original context of the word which is just as bad. Divide the nation to conquer is what is going on. Greece's Article 13.Proselytism is prohibited.

[@WyrdAl]

Peace and charity has been a value to many cultures long before Christian morality. Many Christians just look at anything similar as a lesser copy regardless of the historical record.

[@michellem7290]

To be fair I would not credit Christianity with inventing the concept of non-violent resolution between nations. Our modern concepts of peace I think are at least as much if not more influenced by the philosophers of later history (the Enlightenment), who included some Christians but ranged from atheist to agnostic to pagan to non-denominational to pantheistic deist and all sorts of spiritual leanings in between…

[@damongeo840]

Ἡ Ἑλλὰς εἶχε πάρα πολλὲς θρησκεῖες πρὸ τῆς βιαίας ἐπικρατήσεως τῆς κοσμικῆς μορφῆς τῆς ἑβραϊκῆς θρησκείας.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Ναι αλλά ήταν όλες σε παρακμή. Αυτό ξεχνούν όσοι κατηγορούν τον Χριστιανισμό για το θάνατο της αρχαίας λατρείας.

[@damongeo840]

@@AncientGreeceRevisited, δὲν ἀντιλέγω.

[@Justin_Beaver564]

​@@AncientGreeceRevisited Wasn't it more of a national identity rather than what we would consider religion today?

[@tonysaborio1150]

Leary = skeptical, weary = tired.

[@somatattooathens]

Που τα βρήκατε αυτα τα φιντάνια;

[@alexanderren1097]

Milo Yiannopoulos sure made an interesting career change

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

That was actually funny :-)

[@merc-bt7il]

Neopaganism online: Gangs of tattooed pirates on motorbikes. rifles. Mad Max. Neopagans in real life: this guy^

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Well... there's all sorts I guess ;-)

[@wardafournello]

Greek polytheism was never a cause of war, on the contrary, war happened many times due to the fanaticism of monotheistic religions. In Greek polytheism, the Gods have flaws, are subject to criticism, leave free will to man. Their existence or not is a matter of human faith.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

True. Even when the Greeks faced total conquest in the hands of the Persians, they never imagined Zeus fighting Zoroaster. Each people had their gods, always to be respected, and who remained (according to the Greeks) somewhat indifferent to human hopes.

[@AngeloNasios]

Great conversation

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Thank you, Angelo.

[@trench01]

here is a better wording to sum it up properly= Unlikely Ancient Greeks’ vast contributions to arts, literature, & more, missed on religion. Various evidence suggests it’s likely Christianity is their creation, despite overlooked. History shows, others have taken it over for their own purposes. Mat.7:16-17 good tree=good fruit

[@marta9127]

Interesting and controversial. In many different religions to become a priest you have to have some inner qualities and there is a process of discernment you have to undergo. Vocation or calling is needed. They don't take just any random person who wants to attend. Here it seems there were no such basic requirements. Fill in the form online and you are on board for the course! That sounds kind of suspicious, doesn't it? ;) P.S. I can't believe that Ancient Greeks were that careless! The breaking of the lineage and of the tradition - that was an excellent intuition on your part!

[@trench01]

Greece's Article 3 of the Constitution "The prevailing religion in Greece is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ." Article 13 "All known religions shall be free and their rites of worship shall be performed unhindered...Proselytism is prohibited." LOL You breaking the law?

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

:-)

[@trench01]

To the so-called Greeks that worship the 12 Gods. "Let them all know that when they reject Jesus Christ, reject themselves as Greeks and at the same time attacking the Olympians themselves who confessed Triad God and never asked to be worshiped."(book Archives of lost knowledge words of fire) Ancient Greeks tries to show a example to help elevate the world since if everyone acted gay their would be no world which was not a moral example to lead and teach but was only left to the few as a horrible warning to others as a life lesson. A lot of these ideas are alien to Ancient Greeks and brought in by non Greeks to divide Greeks as usual. These kind of videos get praised by the people that are influenced by the times for demoraIization to divide as it clearly shows and then destabiIize for normalization which would not achieve the goal of what the video wants or what most Greeks follow at the benefit of another. Even Greek politicians admit they do not run Greece or the media others do which let and indirectly push these kind of views. Everyone wants to feel they are making a difference but mostly making things worse to P0is0n the well. Everyone makes mistakes but to not correct them is the bigger error.

[@archon6437]

That was an extremely woke view of Greek polytheism to be honest

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

It was. But it's the view that our guest espouses, and we respect it to the degree that it served no "agenda" but only represented his own ideas. I hope I hope that did not disappoint with my questions, trying to preempt what viewers would have asked him.

[@conorhenderson8537]

Or I think you mean modern day to future Hellenic Religionary. Hellenismos of Today.

[@trench01]

Prop 0 ganada. Seems ant E Greek to me. Less than 0.000375% vases were which was mostly for story purposes or imported. The info in the video was debunked by others but oddly still perpetuated.

[@PoiosAftos]

👍

[@BaltimoresBerzerker]

What is trying to be communicated here?

[@trench01]

Read Plevris books to understand since you seem to not know up to that level yet. At least he won in court to show what e cant is backed up in a court of law unlike others peoples pushing their opinion. Also Ancient Greek Creation: "Nationalism an active affirmation of the nation's idea." To believe & struggle for your nation. THAT helped liberate Greece. Stated by Law Prof. Vassilis Hatzopoulos, philosopher Ion Dragoumis, writer Pericles Giannopoulos, noble Demetrios Ypsilantis,etc Ancient Greece as a nation was NEVER rooted in multiculturalism. As stated by Ancient Greek historian Herodotus. Prime Minister Alexandros Papanastasiou: "Nationalism is the effort of a nation to secure itself" Multiculturalism is used to destroy nations. If you dont like it or he does you can go to former Greek lands like Gaza and see how you like it their. Do I say it well?

[@johndoe-vo8rn]

How much more Woke approach to polytheism😁😁😁

[@tonymontana6560]

There was nothing about Dionysus or His cult, so I found the book disappointing.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

Hey Tony! Thank you so much for reading the book. I appreciate it. :) Unfortunately, I could only include the 12 Olympians in the book, which is why I excluded Dionysus. I was in-between including Hestia or Dionysus, and I had to choose Hestia as she was such a central goddess, being the goddess of the hearth. I hope to focus more on Dionysus' cult in a future book.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

I would strongly recommend W. F. Otto’s “Dionysus”

[@jesuisravi]

I don't know about these ethnically based religious cults...

[@BaltimoresBerzerker]

If people are created in the image of their God and there are so many human phenotypes / distinct groups, why wouldn't each ancestral line have their own ancestral God? The jews are Yahwehs chosen people, the Greeks are Zueses people, the Germanic people are the folk of Freya and Odin, etc.

[@trench01]

let me try to sum up the issues. 1 Gods were more like how we have saints. if one knows what each letter of the Greek alphabet is they would have a better grasp the "TH" THEOS. Gods does not mean the same meaning as we have it now but meant to learn observe understand which is why we have the word theater. 2 Also they were considered ancestors which I don't see people dressing up for their dead grandparents to make a temple which people would consider them nuts. 3 the unknown "god temple" which means 1 God. 4 the 12 gods notion pushes by anti Greeks a long time ago and perpetuated by anti Greeks now which Greeks eat up anything old thinking they are original. Greeks had over 1000 gods. 5 Greeks got religion right which is Christianity is Hellenism but more focused like a beam than a lantern so an evolution. The issue is the misinformation from when it was made to now which most priest get wrong but a few say what is it which is restricted. Greeks predicted Christ as stated by Sibyl over 3000 years ago. But that is not needed since one can see the similarities which church father St. Justin said no difference from being a philosopher and a Christian. Which is why icons of Greek philosophers were in early churches but changed over times due to 6 A lot of things are hidden and and a lot of misinformation is out which no wonder people grasp to anything they think might help out of desperation. 7 its like people want to go back to the titans or primordial gods which goes backwards.

[@geogeo2299]

4:24 There's no such thing as "the official carrier organization" in modern Greek Polytheism.

[@cosmomusa]

the YSEE have recognition status from the state, if you want to officially register as polytheist individual you must have a connection is such religion organisation as proof for the state, another one organisation is ΑΕΘ with similar status.

[@geogeo2299]

@@cosmomusa Like you yourself attest, there are 2 'registered' polytheist 'churches' in Greece: YSEE as of 2017, and ELLHNAIS since 2006. As far as the graecophone bureaucracy (aka Greek state) is concerned, they're both 'recognized'. So there's no single "The Official Carrier", as Lizos claims in 4:28. However, for everything that has to do with the Greek religion, NONE of them is. First and foremost, because terms like 'official' and 'registered' make no sense in a religious context, and when speaking in terms of religiosity. The Greek religion is not concerned with bureaucracies, not even with churches, but with individual and collective ethics. And ethics-wise, there's a million good reasons for every Greek polytheist to keep well clear from both of those orgs.

[@cosmomusa]

@@geogeo2299 if you disturbed of my comment it's not my issue. The law in Greece is clear, if any person wants to identify themselve officially as polytheist then need to approve that belongs to they preferred organisation with religious certificate member who approved from the state. That status only YSEE have it from the Greek state officially from 2017 and some years after the AET.

[@geogeo2299]

@@cosmomusa You don't have any idea of what you're talking abt. A Greek citizen can identify him/herself as a polytheist without YSEE (or any other 'church') having any say on the matter. They just go to their local registry office and have their religion changed to Hellenic. That's as 'official' as it gets. One even might not want to identify himself as 'Ethnic', which is the 'patent' term that YSEE has registered for itself - matter of fact, this 'ethnic' thing IS stupid, so a polytheist would be better off without it anyways. Oh and please, go learn some proper english before you reply to me with another semi-legible post.

[@PFStats-kx9bj]

So I guess Greek Orthodox agree with you that polytheism is gay. Well you present it that way. Despite the Ancient Greeks were not which you ignored a lot o sources. The ones that were against Greeks pushed that view. A shame some believe it.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Greeks practices a form of what today would considered “institutional homosexuality.” That is a historical fact that is so well documented, it makes me wonder at how people deny it. In fact, the irony of it is that they, the people who consider such mentions as degrading to the Greek culture, do so because they have a “Christian” view of homosexuality, where homosexuality is sinful, dirty, low, degenerate. So… you now have people who consider themselves 100% true Greeks, upholders of the ancient ways, who are secretly Christians because they essentially share the same views …

[@aokiaoki4238]

@@AncientGreeceRevisited "After he had created people, Zeus immediately implanted in them all the possible human character traits, but he forgot about Aiskhyne (Aeschyne, Shame). Since he didn't know how to get Aiskhyne (Shame) inside the human body, he ordered her to go in from behind. At first Aiskhyne protested, considering Zeus's request to be beneath her dignity. When Zeus kept insisting, she said, ‘All right, I will go in there, on the condition that if anything--or Eros (Carnal Love)--comes in there after me, I will leave immediately.’ As a result, people who engage in sodomy have no sense of shame." Aesop, Fables 528 (from Chambry 118) (trans. Gibbs) (Greek fable C6th B.C.) : "Affectionate regard for boys of good character was permissible, but embracing them was held to be disgraceful, on the ground that the affection was for the body and not for the mind. Any man against whom complaint was made of any disgraceful embracing was deprived of all civic rights for life.1" 1 Ibid. chap. xviii. (51 d); Xenophon, Constitution of Sparta, 2. 12-14; Aelian, Varia Historia, iii. 10 and 12. "when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery to pleasure." Plat. Laws 1.63 "Spartan love was not obscene. If a young man dare to tolerate lewdness against him or if a young lover tried hubris to someone else, it wasn't in the interests of none to ashamed Sparta so in such a case they were both forced to leave Sparta or loose their lives" «Σπαρτιάτης δε έρως αισχρόν ουκ είδεν είτε γαρ μειράκιον ετόλμησεν ύβριν υπομείναι είτε εραστής υβρίσαι, αλλ΄ ουδερέροις ελυσιτέλησε την Σπάρτην εγκαταμείναι ή γαρ της πατρίδος απηλλάγησαν ή και το έτι θερμόμετρον και του βίου αυτού.» Aelians various history § 3.12 "A Spartan admire a young man but only like we admire a beautiful statue and one many others and one the many, because sexual pleasure is a hubris unacceptable between them. " «Ερά Σπαρτιάτης ανήρ μειρακίου λακωνικού , αλλ’ερά μόνο ως αγάλματος καλού και ενός πολλοί , και εις πολλών. Η μεν γαρ εξ ύβρεως ηδονή ακοινώνητος προς αλλήλους». Maximus Tyrius, Dialexeis 20.8de "If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he approved, and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other." Xenophon, Constitution of the Lacedaimonians. 2.13 “Or the man who has failed to perform all the military service demanded of him, or who has thrown away his shield.” And he is right. Why? Man, if you fail to take up arms in behalf of the state, or if you are such a coward that you are unable to defend her, you must not claim the right to advise her, either. Whom does he specify in the third place? “Or the man,” he says, “who has debauched or prostituted himself.” For the man who has made traffic of the shame of his own body, he thought would be ready to sell the common interests of the city also. But whom does he specify in the fourth place?" Aeschines, Against Timarchus 1 29 [841d] we might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations,-either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy,-or else we should entirely abolish love for males, and in regard to that for women, if we enact a law that any man who has intercourse with any women save those who have been brought to his house " Plato, Laws Laws [The teachers of the boys shall open the school-rooms not earlier than sunrise, and they shall close them before sunset. No person who is older than the boys shall be permitted to enter the room while they are there, unless he be a son of the teacher, a brother, or a daughter's husband. If any one enter in violation of this prohibition, he shall be punished with death. The superintendents of the gymnasia shall under no conditions allow any one who has reached the age of manhood to enter the contests of Hermes together with the boys. A gymnasiarch who does permit this and fails to keep such a person out of the gymnasium, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed for the seduction of free-born youth. Every choregus who is appointed by the people shall be more than forty years of age.]” Aeschines, Against Timarchus 1 12 [840d] but have fallen into a strait because of the cowardice of the many, I maintain that our regulation on this head must go forward and proclaim that our citizens must not be worse than fowls and many other animals which are produced in large broods, and which live chaste and celibate lives without sexual intercourse until they arrive at the age for breeding; and when they reach this age they pair off, as instinct moves them, male with female and female with male; and thereafter [841d] we might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations,-either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy,-or else we should entirely abolish love for males, and in regard to that for women, if we enact a law that any man who has intercourse with any women save those who have been brought to his house " Plato laws "Well, when he found that Critias loved Euthydemus4 and wanted to lead him astray, he tried to restrain him by saying that it was mean and unbecoming in a gentleman to sue like a beggar to the object of his affection, whose good opinion he coveted, stooping to ask a favour that it was wrong to grant. [30] As Critias paid no heed whatever to this protest, Socrates, it is said, exclaimed in the presence of Euthydemus and many others, “Critias seems to have the feelings of a pig: he can no more keep away from Euthydemus than pigs can help rubbing themselves against stones.” [31] Now Critias bore a grudge against Socrates for this Xenophon, Memorabilia 1.2 "Such, then, was the judgment of your fathers concerning things shameful and things honorable; and shall their sons let Timarchus go free, a man chargeable with the most shameful practices, a creature with the body of a man defiled with the sins of a woman? In that case, who of you will punish a woman if he finds her in wrong doing? Or what man will not be regarded as lacking intelligence who is angry with her who errs by an impulse of nature,while he treats as adviser1 the man who in despite of nature has sinned against his own body? " Aeschines, Against Timarchus 1 185 If therefore Misgolas is willing to come forward here and testify to the truth, he will be doing what is right; but if he prefers to refuse the summons rather than testify to the truth, the whole business will be made clear to you. For if the man who did the thing is going to be ashamed of it and choose to pay a thousand drachmas into the treasury rather than show his face before you,1 while the man to whom it has been done is to be a speaker in your assembly, then wise indeed was the lawgiver who excluded such disgusting creatures from the platform. Aeschines, Against Timarchus 1 46 “Thus, then, as it seems, you will lay down the law in the city that we are founding, that the lover may kiss and pass the time with and touch the beloved as a father would a son” Plato, Republic 3.403b "Ariaeus was a barbarian as he pleasured with young beautiful boys " "Αριαίω δε βαρβάρω όντι, οτι μειρακίοις καλοίς ήδετο " Xenophon Anabasis 2.6 "Law [If any Athenian shall outrage a free-born child, the parent or guardian of the child shall demand a specific penalty. If the court condemn the accused to death, he shall be delivered to the constables and be put to death the same day. If he be condemned to pay a fine, and be unable to pay the fine immediately, he must pay within eleven days after the trial, and he shall remain in prison until payment is made. The same action shall hold against those who abuse the persons of slaves.]” Aeschines, Against Timarchus 1 16 "But when Philoxenus, the governor of the coast-lands of Asia Minor, wrote to Alexander that there was in Ionia a youth, the like of whom for bloom and beauty did not exist, and inquired in his letter whether he should send the boy on to him. Alexander wrote bitterly in reply, ‘Vilest of men, what deed of this sort have you ever been privy to in my past that now you would flatter me with the offer of such pleasures?’ Plutarch: On the Fortune or the Virtue of Alexander 1 12 Etc

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

@@aokiaoki4238 Wow! Thank you for all those sources. But you have to understand the following... that many aspects of a culture hold a "dual" aspect in regards to how people inside of that culture view them. If for example, following perhaps some major disaster akin to a nuclear holocaust, survivors from the future were to rediscover our current civilization, do you think they'll find our philosophers, poets, and statesmen celebrating prostitution? Or the recreational use of drugs? Or maybe the fact that corruption in politics was not a exception but a system (consistent within its own laws)? Of course not! Yet those things do not merely exist but are "institutions" in their own right, meaning, they are not sporadic events, anomalies to an otherwise good society, but they come packed with unwritten rules of behaviour, their own economies, as real as their legal counterparts, and many... many references in popular culture. What I said in the video was exactly that, that based on the evidence that we have, we encounter among the Greeks a "dual" aspect for homosexuality. On the one hand, it definitely existed on the same "institutional" base that all those "bad" things that I just mentioned above. On the other, we do not find vivid descriptions of homoerotic acts pretty much anywhere but comedy, and indirectly at that. This, of course, is very strange for a people who excelled in poetic descriptions like no other. It's this "dual" character that we must hold in mind rather than arguing whether the phenomenon existed or not. Since you quoted Xenophon and various others who wrote about the Spartans and their ways, I want to leave you with a thought, one that comes from Leo Strauss in the link below: www.jstor.org/stable/40981694 In his very important essay, Strauss reminds us that ancient authors had enough "shame" - as you pointed out - NOT to discuss certain things in public, but only to insinuate them. This idea is, by the way, a pillar of "Straussian" thinking. When Xenophon wrote the "Spartan Constitution," Strauss believed that he not just insinuates towards homosexuality, but towards pedophilia, including relationships between fathers and sons! To either agree or disagree with this view in an informed way, I would advise you - and anyone reading this - to go and read Xenophon's work again (it's an evenings work), and follow it up with Strauss' essay. You may find that this philosopher may have had a point ... Thank you for your extensive commenting.

[@geogeo2299]

@@AncientGreeceRevisited Dude from all the Greek polytheists you have just interviewed the one who's homosexual (and who's regurgiating the old YSEE talking points and style), so I guess you have an agenda after all. So the question is, what are you trying to achieve? Now the user above has just destroyed your allegations, that being against LGBT propaganda equals 'acting christian', by using original sources and BTW, he still failed to bring up Solon's law.... To all of which you replied with.... Leo Strauss 😁 Idk what exactly are you trying to be, or purposed to do, but from what I've seen thus far you're not as good as u think u r

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

@@geogeo2299 Dude, mentioning or accepting homosexuaity does NOT mean engaging in some kind of propaganda! Homosexuality has been an established behaviour in many. many cultures, but has only recently been weaponised by the system. That also means that homosexuality was NOT weapons by itself, but became one in the hands of certain elites. As an example, feminism was also weaponised by the same elites, while it had many legitimate points in its beginning. I don't think that you are approaching this the right way at all. Also, the fact that certain texts call it shameful falls under the description that I gave above (if you bothered to read it), about a "dual" aspect of certain aspects of our culture. We must separate the behaviour from its weaponisation and stop calling the giving of space to a homosexual man "propaganda."

[@GerasimosBalatsinosIII]

Πως γίνεται να χάλασες σε ένα επεισόδιο;

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Χαχαχαχα... please explain ;-)

[@IIVVBlues]

With discoveries in the sciences, including archeology and paleontology, how can one believe in any gods other than in a metaphorical, symbolic way? Apollo and Dionysus can symbolize aspects of human nature, but existing as actual deities? Are we not just inventing fantasies to explain the, as yet, unknown? I am bewildered by the blindness of believers.

[@abbasalchemist]

You are looking at it the wrong way around. The human bias is to imagine that we are the source of attributes. You can think of the deities as manifestations of energy that are not exclusively "owned" by humans. Such energies predate the human. In that sense the gods seem to possess human qualities as if we assigned that to them, when in actuality we sense divinity within ourselves and see the source as emerging from both within and outside ourselves and understand that they are powers well beyond our temporal existence.

[@carmichaelree]

Belief. That’s it. If we have just as much evidence as there is lack thereof then belief or faith is all we have. The Bifröst bridge in the Norse tradition has allegorical references to the power of faith.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Well, you "hit the problem on the head!" Given the scientific-materialist worldview, there can be no gods,. In fact, there can be no God in the Christian sense either. But is that worldview correct? That is the question. If you examine it with un-biased and slightly philosophical eyes, you may discover some strong inconsistencies at the roots. It's part of our work to bring those inconsistencies to the light.

[@AngeloNasios]

There’s the philosophical way. Ever heard of Platonism?

[@maria369]

He is not a polytheist He is just gay

[@anaconda470]

I'm gay. He's queer. I can't take these people seriously.

[@adampao]

Because spirituality obviously checks your dating profile first.

[@maria369]

@@adampao Sure does buddy. It determines the kinds of spirits you will attract. The more delusional you are the lower the vibrations of the spiritual world you'll immerse yourself into.

[@adampao]

@@maria369 Lower vibrations? That explains why you're out of tune with this channel.

[@bethanygoldsworthy9573]

Being close minded is a disease

[@enacausmembrane]

All Jews Christians and Muslims together said in unison "ASTAGFIRULLAH" while watching this video.

[@Kalokagathon0]

I used to watch your videos with enthusiasm, especially ones featuring the Athenian Stranger, Millerman and Priou, but also shorter ones like the Pericles, Lycourgos or Aristotle’s Insight videos. The "How come you screwed up in an episode?" comment is quite appropriate (though it has of course started slightly earlier), and it is hard not to be reminded of Thomas Cole’s "Course of an empire", this, seeming like the beginning of the destruction. Whether you truly believe what you put forward here (as well as in at least two of your previous videos in the past few months) I do not know. But if you do, it’s just ridiculous (if not, pathetic). It’s a damn shame - something which, ironically, is lacking here. Listening to that f*g was cringeworthy enough to unfollow instantly.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

Strangely enough I appreciate your comment. But I personally find the whole issue that people make out of homosexuality quite ridiculous to be honest. The only "issue" is how gender and sexuality, as well as all kinds of sexual deviances have been weaponised by invisible elites. Homosexuality itself, as long as I am concerned, has been an aspect of all societies, while in Greece it took on a unique spiritual meaning that is definitely lacking today. This does not mean that it was universally accepted, but to claim that it was a marginal and shameful thing during the heights of ancient Greece is - to me - unhistorical and fanatical. I don't think that any of this "cancels" our previous work.

[@justperson7551]

@@AncientGreeceRevisited Surviving with jive once wrote about practices like this: “The past is a foreign country, and you may not like everything you see there.” I think his words describe the situation perfectly and how people sometimes try to understand the past times

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

@@justperson7551 That is very well said of him!

[@MudHut67]

yeah I don't trust anyone on such matters who looks and talks like that, cya

[@carmichaelree]

I can understand. But at least he’s being honest in saying Ancient Greece didn’t have homosexual marriages. He doesn’t seem to me so much like the woke type. But again, I know where you’re coming from.

[@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96]

Yeah, he glows so much.

[@geogeo2299]

@@carmichaelree Yet he choses to excibit the usual mannerisms. It's still a matter of choice, isn't it.

[@GeorgeLizosTV]

@@Jordi_Llopis_i_Torregrosa96 I'll take that! 🌟Thank you.

[@PFStats-kx9bj]

This video insults Zeus. You guys are obviously not Greek or in the mentality. It feels like Greece keeps falling. KZbin "Η αλήθεια που σου κρύβουν Νο 8" as a military personal pokes holes at the argument. As she says to go read homer for example to know better whats going on. Put her on your show since she has more subscribers than you.

[@AncientGreeceRevisited]

We have received a lot of criticism for this video (together with praise, of course). But you have to remember this: right now, we are all in the dark. There is only a “move” towards the gods. We in Ancient Greece Revisited are interested in whomever is part of this move. I have personally met a lot of “initiates” in my time who know nothing more than regurgite Proclus idea of the Great Intellect without understanding a word. Everyone who comes to us with honesty about being in a process of discovery is welcome.

[@PFStats-kx9bj]

​@@AncientGreeceRevisited part of what "move". did you see the video I stated? I assume you didnt know about it since you didnt bring it up they are not the 1st person. Many can agree with you but more agreed with her. I notice a lot of lgbt people pushing for 12 gods since they are trying to find a way to fit their lifestyle and be head of it to try and change the even original laws of Greece and views which most that was stated got debunked. Its like people are desires to feed their desires (which is anti Greek in it itself) that makes things worse which. Obviously you will get praise since like calls others to like as well and people that dont will not call others and say watch out which I told others and they refuse to see it knowing what little info they got which they find mind boggling wrong and wont bother. People like to cluster in groups no matter what side if right with right and wrong with wrong. I would like you to delve into the womens video more since even theologians and historians also side with her since she didnt make it up since its not the 1st time.