Ευχαριστώ, αν και πικρόγλυκο το κομπλιμέντο. Στείλε μας πηγές, ευχαρίστως να τις κοιτάξουμε. Αλλά για να καταλάβω. Υποστηρίζεις ότι υπάρχει σήμερα κάποιος που να διδάχτηκε από κάποιον που διδάχτηκε από κάποιον που διδάχτηκε … βάλε 25 αιώνες … από κάποιον που διδάχτηκε από τον Πυθαγόρα;;;

⁠@@AncientGreeceRevisited Δεν υποστηρίζω (δημόσια) την άμεση και αδιάκοπη συνέχεια από τον Πυθαγόρα ως το σήμερα,όχι γιατί δεν το πιστεύω μέσα μου αλλά επειδή δεν μπορώ να το τεκμηριώσω ιστορικά,οπότε κρατάω την προσωπική μου άποψη για τον εαυτό μου. Αυτό που αποδεικνύεται μέσα από τις πηγές είναι η παράδοση των ελληνικών «νομιζομένων» από τον Πλωτίνο έως τον Πλήθωνα Γεμιστό και από το κίνημα των «Αδελφών εν Πλατώνι» έως το αναγεννησιακό κίνημα της Ιταλίας και το πρώτο Σύνταγμα των Επτανήσων.

What you say makes little sense

@@hedgiecc Thank you!

@@Marion10610 👍🙏💪

What an excellent comment. I think you are spot on. Yet, my own personal quest is not in the “knowing” but experiencing.

@ I think that is part of it. If we let the Divines "just be" without trying to put them in a box, then that opens the door to the experiencing because we have accepted the futility of knowing.

@ In fact what you are saying reminds me of a moment in Plato's Republic. When I re-read this work recently, I stopped on my tracks about 4/5 where Socrates says something in relation to the "being of knowledge" [Rep. Book IX 585c]. It's this fascinating idea that knowledge has a "being" which might be identical to the being of whatever is investigated. Knowing God and experiencing Him might be the same after all ..

Κοίταξε, ζούμε την εποχή της μεγαλύτερης μεταφοράς πλούτου από την μεσαία προς την υπερπλούσια ανώτερη τάξη. Αυτό δεν είναι άποψη, αλλά γεγονός, στατιστικά αποδείξιμο. Και αυτό συνέβη απότομα, τα τελευταία 4 - 5 χρόνια. Αυτή είναι και η βασική μεταβολή που κατά ένα τρόπο εξηγεί όλες τις άλλες. Ο Ελον Μασκ προφανώς και δεν ενδιαφέρεται γι αυτό, μιας και ζει από αυτό. Τώρα, αυτό που βλέπω - με έκπληξη πρέπει να πω - είναι ότι ο κόσμος δεν φαίνεται να το πολυσυζηταει. Θυμάμαι τη δεκαετία της οικονομικής κρίσης, που κάθε δεύτερη κουβέντα ήταν για το χρέος και την οικονομική δυσχέρεια. Κουραστικό και αυτό, σίγουρα, αλλά αντικατόπτριζε μια πραγματικότητα. Τώρα, δεν θυμάμαι πια ήταν η τελευταία φορά που κάποιος αναφέρθηκε στο χρέος, αλλά πάει καιρός. Η κατανάλωση είναι στα ύψη, ή τουλάχιστον έτσι φαίνεται από μια βόλτα στην Αθήνα, και οι Tesla έχουν γίνει όπως τα Fiat Punto της εποχής. Εν ολίγης, κάτι γίνεται που κι εγώ δεν το καταλαβαίνω καλά, οπότε και δεν έχω απάντηση στο σχόλιο σου.

Πολύ σωστά όλα και σ’ευχαριστώ! Η αλήθεια είναι ότι το παράδειγμα της Ιαπωνίας μου είχε διαφύγει τελείως. Παραδόξως ίσως. Βέβαια, η αντίληψη τους στο βαθμό που την καταλαβαίνω είναι περισσότερο «ανιμιστική» παρά πολυθεϊστική και δεν γνωρίζω αν παίζει τόσο σημαντικό ρόλο στη ζωή τους. Δηλαδή, στην Ινδία, παντρεύονται βάση κάστας, η οποία είναι άρρηκτα συνδεδεμένη με τη θρησκεία. Δεν ξέρω αν στην Ιαπωνία ισχύει κάτι παρόμοιο. Το τελευταίο είναι και αυτό σημαντικό αλλά ο Χριστιανισμός έβαλε το εργατικό ήθος που ο Διαφωτισμός μετά διοχέτευσε στην βιομηχανία.

I disagree. And before calling us superficial please watch our video on the “two religions” of Ancient Greece.

I will, but you didnt understand. I gave you an advise. I didnt call you superficial..

It was roughly during the 8th century BC that both Greek and Jewish cultures "crystalised." They became recognisably Greek (and Jewish respectively) and not merely "one more" Indo-European or "one more" Semitic.

@ it’s possible I misunderstand… but.. what do you mean by “one more” when it already exists for 1000 years? Is it something I miss here? I don’t think that is a good description. It confuses more with some kind of simplification. Losing nuance. I personally would say 1000 years in human history isn’t even nuance… but rather a radical difference. Homer sang verse that was at least 4-500 years old. And scholars talk about some of the mythical roots of the oral tradition referring to some of these myths …stretching likely as far way back as to Minoan and Mycenaean singers. That said cultural changes in artists style, written language and poetry changed around 8th century bc. Especially because we Europeans got our first good writing language in the Greek alphabet.

@ What I mean is that Greek culture is often seen under the umbrella of "Indo-Europeanism." It's seen like "one more instance" of Indo-European cultures. Zeus being another name for Odin or Thor, or even Indra god of thunder. I had an interview with an expert in that domain who kept using the word "cognate" (co-natare, i.e. "born together") when talking about the Greek gods in combination with Hindu gods. Ex. Zeus, the "cognate" of Indra etc. That's what I mean by "one more" Indo-European culture. It's the view that what is essential in ancient Greece is a function of what's essential in Indo-European cultures What I'm saying on the other hand is that there was something unique in Greek culture, and which "crystalised" during the 8th century, and for which the Indo-European culture was but One of the two elements.

@@AncientGreeceRevisited Ok, but to me the whole question and answer came out as if the polytheistic and monotheistic worshiping came about the same time. I will ague that is pretty essential to differ and clarify it is evidence of the opposite. (Odin and Thor was much later, I belive like 12-1300 years later, after Christianity had converted the Roman Empire btw.) ...wasn't this at the time of the Urnfield culture and such? ...and I don't think we know much about their religion other than they cremating the deceased and probably worshiped several gods.) I will agree that it was polytheistic culture in Indo-European societies, likely with at least some similar myths. Just as it's believed Zeus (di-we or di-wo in Mycenaean Linear B tablets 13th BC. As Oliver Dickinson mentions in The Aegean Bronze Age, 1994)

They are referring to what is often called The Axial Revolution where in a relatively a short amount of time (8th to 3rd century BC) we see major philosophic changes throughout the world, including the lives of Zoroaster, the Buddha, Confucius, and Socrates. During this time, Judaism shifted from being henotheistic to monotheistic and setting doctrine in the form of the Torah and early Old Testament.

Thanks

Back at you! 🙏

Thank you for saying that! Yes, I believe that phenomenology is the invaluable tool that can point the mind away from the prison of scientism. Have you watched our episode on Heraclitus and Heidegger?

@@AncientGreeceRevisited Not yet. But I will! Glory to the Gods!

Going Deep on Heidegger, Heraclitus, and the Philosophy of Nature kzbin.info/www/bejne/apOyi4Wlh7aHiMk

Interesting observation, yet, there is a problem ... In the Homeric epics there is no mention of reading or writing whatsoever. The Greek heroes of Troy were essentially ... illiterate. This of course does not have to apply to Homer the man. Yet, even during his days - when writing must have been reasonably accessible - the art form of epic poetry was an "oral" one. Homer must have memorised all of his poems using mnemonic devices. For more on this you could read about the work of Milman Parry and his theories en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral-formulaic_composition

@@AncientGreeceRevisited Thank you for responding. Let me clarify my point. During the archaic/dark age, the homeric epics were exclusively oral. Once they were documented, they "froze" in time. Had writing not come around in the 8th century, but maybe the 1st century BC, perhaps the prevalent poetry may have about the Persian wars or the Peloponnesian conflict or Alexander's exploits and Homer's epics may have faded from memory. Had Hebrew script been invented in the 1st century AD, perhaps the Jewish torah would center around apocalyptic messiah cults or the Maccabees and Yahweh destroying the world in a flood would be all but forgotten. Writing freezes history. Whatever is currently spiritually important and documented becomes the "big thing", never forgotten and only added to. What I am saying is the spiritual awakening is whenever the lights are turned on and we can never forget. There is always something spiritually important, there is no spiritual big bang event just when it is documented and fetishized. Then that fetish becomes the "spiritual explosion" through writing, propagation and institutionalization.

​@ I see what you are saying. It appears obvious to me now, yet, it had not occurred to me before you mentioned it! It's very plausible, but I am tempted to offer an alternative explanation, one that is less "materialist" (philosophically) and more "idealist." You see, we are following the works of Cornelius Castoriadis, for whom we made a documentary that I believe is worth watching kzbin.info/www/bejne/paK5l2qblJl6qMksi=NBUP8jDGhMtDDFva What he believed, and I am for one convinced, is that cultures do not really develop, they are born, a little bit like the universe did out of a "big bang." That means that .. we don't really have evidence of the Greeks believing in 6 gods, then 8, then 10, and finally 12. No! The first time that we get evidence of a culture that is distinctly Greek, like in the epics of Homer's, we have all 12 gods + Dionysus fully formed, with all their attributes and all their relationships. With a concept of geography (Iliad 2nd rhapsody) that documents all the city-states that would dominate the Greek mainland, language and customs that would change very little for the next millennia! It is tempting to say that the invention of writing "froze" this culture at a specific moment in time, but even if that is true to a certain extent, think of how little time it took those early Greeks to go from semi-nomadic Indo-European culture in the 10th century, to a distinctly Greek culture with a sense of the Tragic, that for Cornelius (and us) forms the backbone of Greek culture. Something happened for these ideas to "crystallize" and in fact, this sudden appearance seems to me the norm rather than the exception in history. Christianity seems to have formed as suddenly. If Jesus died in the year 33 AD having convinced 12 people of his Divinity, by the time that Nero burned Rome in the 60s AD there was a discrete group of Romans called "Christians" which must have numbered in the 10s of thousands, if they were to reach Rome from Judea in waves of migration and preaching, with fully formed ideas about the afterlife and the Resurrection and the end-of-days. Things - by the way - that are scarcely found in Jesus' teachings. It's as if whoever He was, He acted as a catalyst for ideas that were already there. There is something mysterious in Ideas, something worth investigating.

First of all, I want to thank you for everything you put into your project. It is great fun and infinitely interesting. There are indeed iterations of Greek spirituality that we have indirect evidence of. The IE wave brought in nature, gods like Zeus, and crashed into the indigenous Greek agricultural gods like Demeter. So there were iterations of the Olympic pantheon prior to the establishment of the 12. In fact, we have a documented iteration of when the God Dionysis assumed his place and displaced one of the gods. So Greece was always rich and spiritual awareness of many different varieties until the alphabet was developed and this version was documented. I love that you pointed out the differences in Christ of the New Testament and Christ of the Christian Church. Christianity is entirely a Greek invention. It is Neoplatonism through a Hebrew lens. In fact, during the first three centuries of Christianity, there was a competing theology that declared that the god of the old Testament was the devil, and the god of Jesus was the true God and they were completely different. There is a reason why the cathedral of Constantinople was called Agia Sophia. I recommend the excellent work done by doctor sledge in his KZbin series called the Demiurge on his esoterica channel. Φίλε σ’ ευχαριστώ πάλι και τώρα θα πάω να δω το KZbin video. Θέλω να σε καταλάβω καλύτερα Πριν γράψω τίποτα άλλο. Χαιρετίσματα από την Αμερική!

Well, the collapse happened around 4 centuries before that. But as the roaming bands moved around the Greek mainland, they formed - and lived - the stories later retold by the bards, where Homer was the unique genious of that genre.

Here is the thing: we don’t really know what “erastes” truly meant back in Ancient Greece, and to insist on one version of we the other is pointless. We just don’t know. The question then becomes, what can we guess? Well, my view is to look at history and assume that Greeks were not aliens from another planet :-) and that therefore, what applies to others must have applied to them. So, do we have examples of warrior-like communities who also engage in homosexuality and even pedophilia. Yes, plenty! In Afganistán, American soldiers witnesses boys being regularly accompanied by their elder “lovers.” And that is telling, because Afganistán is simply a Muslim society that does not hide its habits like for instance Dubai. Turkish officials in the Ottoman Empire did the same, and in Britain’s elite schools, were the traditions of a ruling aristocracy hold sway, homosexuality is rife. So, my question would then be, why not the Spartans?

We know .. it was a bad audio mix! Apologies ,.,.

Σε άλλο χωροχρόνο είμαι εγώ . Συγγνώμη σε λάθος σύμπαν με έφερε το 906 . Καλό σας βράδυ !

That’s what we figured! Much to our surprise

🤩

Haha... ah! Reminded me of my youth!

​@@AncientGreeceRevisitedGreat video, great shot with majestic background and honest conversation. Speaking as a female - male strength will never disappear, and although I don't romanticize war myself, there is beauty in it, just as some lucky ones of us can die 'beautifully'. (The hoplite formation also stands pretty emotionally for itself.) P.S. The conversation (opposite sexual forces within us) reminded me of Jung's Anima and Animus concept. P.S. 2 Slayer seems (just like the love of Greek culture) able to bind people together wherever they live. ;)

We take no sides in this debate since it's something we know little about. But from reading your message it sounds like you know what you are talking about. I am going to leave this debate to those who are knowledgable about it.

@AncientGreeceRevisited not trying to agitate or start a debate. Not trying to distract from the point of the video or the work you do. Like I said I'm a supporter. But as a side point, I think it had to be mentioned. Good luck to the Greeks who want to revive their original and authentic ancient customs and traditions.

@ We are glad that you mentioned it. Thank you for the support!!

Plato calls them an "army of lovers" and his definition of "lover" was more than spiritual.

"Ελλαδέμπορα με 600 δις" ; Ποιός είναι αυτός;

@@AncientGreeceRevisited ceydoarxaiologos

I really love what you said there: Jesus exists in a different plane than the Greek gods! Somehow you sparked an interest there. Care to elaborate?

Hahahahah... well said my friend!