The Moment Sonic Comics Went Dark

[@ComicDrake]

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[@shroomer8294]

Which lore is deeper? Sonic or Bionicle?

[@ComicDrake]

@@shroomer8294 Oh Bionicle for sure.

[@theshenpartei]

@@ComicDrakepersonally I think you should do a video on anti sonic/scourge.

[@ScourgeGhost13]

The modern Eggman being an alternate universe Robotnik downloading his mind into another body was metal as fuck

[@Exceed492]

I remember being so confused when that happened, but also totally for it because it was cool as hell.

[@reallyfreakingoodvideogame468]

Hey, hey guys, guess what... Literally.

[@matti.8465]

It's honestly sad how despite being such a long running and beloved series, the legacy of Archie Sonic is mostly centered around Penders.

[@SpiderandMosquito]

I've been feeling that for a while, personally. I personally blame it on recency bias of non-comic and even former comic fans who have more a reference to post-Adventure era Sonic games. Archie began when accuracy to the games was less expected, technically starting off based on the two DiC cartoons, and I feel like people just can't appreciate that. Yes, some of the writing is just plain dated, but I feel like it's more a matter of people distracted by what they now expect, which results in a lot of inoffensive, or outright good stories getting dismissed by modern audiences who are more likely to go, "dang, this got weeeird" as opposed to judging it on it's own terms. As for Penders, well, it was a lot unknown behind the scenes drama that just came to light so publicly and seemingly suddenly that puts the burden of hindsight onto the series that will inevitably affect the perspective of those who seek to learn what happened.

[@TheMrSonicFan99]

Not necessarily true If you are a fan of Archie sonic and you don't give a damn about penders Then you will Most likely Remember the good parts

[@ShockwaveFPSStudios]

Blame the fans who only talks about the games. I don’t really care about any of this stuff anymore, because 1. Comics are weird, 2. We’re talking about a spiny blue hedgehog who stops a big egg who wants to build a theme park, it’s not that deep. And 3. I’m not a Sonic Fan anymore so why does it even matter.

[@bearerofbadnews1375]

I will never forget that crossover Sonic had with Megaman and bringing Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher, Amaterasu from Okami in worlds united. Although it did not feature Dante from the Devil may cry series.

[@daithirian]

That is the weirdest thing about Penders. He’s not free from controversy but damn if he didn’t give us some of the best Sonic stories too. But god he devolved into utter insanity after hitting issue 100

[@Impbrush]

We need more love for scourge, the fact he was turned from an evil clone character into an existential crisis of a character burdened with the desire to distinguish himself from the original but always be doomed to be a derivative lesser of the original.

[@alexpryor2398]

While that's true, I love both him and Serge.

[@commonviewer2488]

​@@alexpryor2398Surge was made to match Sonic to kill him, but never to _be_ him.

[@alexpryor2398]

@@commonviewer2488 fair but I can't help but think scourge was an inspiration for surge. That and Androids 17 and 18 from dbz.

[@X2011racer]

Scourage does live on in The Lara Su Chronicles, which is a bad thing because now Penders changed him into a ruthless bounty hunter that doesn't care if his bounties are dead or alive, who now works with Fiona, who is a treasure hunter with no respect for those that she steals from, including the destruction of planets caused by theft of relics critical to the survival of those planets. I painfully read the chapters where they appear, and they were ruthlessly killed off 3 chapters later.

[@LoliconSamalik]

@@X2011racer Which is funny because Penders doesn't own the copyright. He is violating on Archie/Ian Flynn's copyright now.

[@sapphieverosa]

"For the first time in his life Sonic truly understands war" and " of course you realize this means war" have a weirdly similar vibe

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

I didn't notice that

[@metalbudsgaming8371]

"When Sonic is locked up and put in transit to a secret gulag"

[@AeonKnigh432]

This happened in Sonic Forces I'm pretty sure /j

[@costelinha1867]

Everything is possible when it comes to sonic, everything... for better, or for worse.... often for worse...

[@mrpingasman3079]

Shout outs to people like Steven Butler, Mike Ghallager, and Ian Flynn for making and expanding on the Sonic universe and end up producing a genuinely enjoyable read.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

I agree

[@HybridAngelZero]

It's still absolutely wild that the original Robotnik from the Archieverse actually just dies for real. I have a lot of gripes with the series writing, but I absolutely respect that they held steadfast to that. Also, ridiculous as it is, Sonic throwing dirt and running across it in midair is just freaking cool

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Agreed

[@Limit02]

I’m so glad you mentioned the whole “modern Eggman is technically a different character from classic Robotnik” it’s so crazy In terms of insane plot points to make the series closer to the games, I’m also a big fan of when Sonic, Tails, and Shadow all send the chaos emeralds (which there are hundreds of each color in the Archie verse) to a pocket dimension, where a panda who was in there became omnipotent and turned all the chaos emeralds into the Seven the games always had

[@SpiderandMosquito]

that was a very inventive way to do it, and lucky that they had some established canon that allowed them to do it so naturally

[@Future_Vantas]

I always liked how the comics adapted Adventure 1. Rather than just rebooting the comic or making a standalone adaptation they reworked stuff so Adventure could happen in the Archie Sonic world. Using Robo-Robotnik to get the Adventure Eggman, using Ring magic to get Modern Sonic and Modern Amy, reworking Station Square as a hidden city, all good stuff. I remember reading a letters column about how they wanted to do something new to bring in Station Square, so instead of making it a Zone they went with the hidden city route. The way Tails and Shadow united the emeralds was such a cool way to bring in the Special Stages from the games, all of them too as Feist (the panda) could manipulate that world to his liking so he could create different challenges for folks wanting an emerald. Plus it was a good use of the Pender's era prophecy of Tails being The Chosen One.

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@Future_Vantas also, feist was a random godlike entity introduced years ago incidentally as part of a storyline focusing on ixis naugus and then he jsut never showed up again until they brought him back for the chaos emerald stuff, which was great

[@GoldenJLR]

I know that it’s probably common knowledge nowadays but since the video did not say it, here is an explanation of why Robotnik’s name changed to Eggman: Sonic is a Japanese franchise but early on the team behind the games did not have control over the license stuff or what SEGA of America was doing. They changed the name of the Villian from Eggman to Robotnik, Sonic became furry Bart Simpson in the US and during the production of Sonic 2 they wanted the name of the new character to be Tails while the team wanted Miles Prower (which ended up as Miles “Tails” Power in the final game). Sega of America and other companies like Archie did a lot of stuff without creative input of the game developers. In 1996 Sega created the game studio Sonic team that would not only make games but also deal with Sonic as a brand giving the original developers the full control of the franchise. In 1998 Sonic Team made Sonic Adventure, Sonic's first 3D platformer. They used this new dimension to redesign the characters and also introduce their take on the series worldwide. So, “Robotnik” was just the last name of Dr Eggman and Sonic was a cool guy that loves to stay on the beach and a free spirit that goes where he is needed. Characters from license stuff not approved by Sonic team, like Sally and the freedom fighter, would never be used again. From that point Sonic team oversaw everything, so Sonic's next animation, Sonic X, was way closer to the games than Sonic SatAM. Archie comics were the exception because it was running for a long time, but Sonic Team did ask them to add some characters and adapt some games. After Ken Penders’ Lawsuit, SEGA demanded to make the comic’s world and character closer to the games and after IDW got the licenses and rebooted the comics, Sonic team's creative team oversee the new series that are now canon to the games.

[@ninjoshday]

It's a similar story for Mario. When localizing Super Mario Bros., Princess Peach became Princess Toadstool and King Koopa (or Kuppa) became Bowser. However, starting with Super Mario 64, Nintendo gave Princess Toadstool her original name of Peach. Oddly enough, however, they kept Bowser, and Bowser has become something like a second name for the character even in Japan

[@robertlupa8273]

It's worth mentioning that Sega didn't bother providing any information about the games Archie Comics was told to adapt, so you had situations like the writers having to rely on Patrick Spaziante's Japanese copy of Sonic Adventure to get the adaptation done on time AND THEN they also had to change some parts of the script when the English version came out. _(source: Sonic Grams from Archie Sonic issue 80)_

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@ninjoshday Honestly, that Bowser bit in Japan doesn't surprise me. English is practically Japan's second language, it even being taught in school and what not, and from what I understand Japanese message boards are very similar to American ones, just y'know Japanese, so those factors + America and Europe being a dominating cultural force globally (for better and a lot of worse, colonialism and all that.), there's a lot of English and American cultural overlap in Japan. I found out the other day apparently Smiling Friends has a decently sized fanbase in Japan, and from what I heard there's not even a Japanese dub for it.

[@ScatterbrainPete]

Correction: SatAM and AoStH were in fact NOT on the same network (not originally anyway, they were kinda shown together in reruns and some international airings). In 1993 SatAM aired on ABC, while AoStH was syndicated. And while SatAM was cancelled after 2 seasons and 26 episodes, AoStH was a single 65-episode season which was a standard for syndication as 65 was usually the minimum amount of episodes required (though sometimes it's 40). Once that was met, it was decided to end that show's production and focus on SatAM's second season. Also, SatAM ended in 1994, while the Endgame arc came out in 1997.

[@Excellsion]

Fun fact: From around the start of the Genesis era till around when Adventure came out, there was ALSO "Sonic the Comic" over in Europe and it was also brutal. In it, Super Sonic is a MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATHIC SEPERATE PERSONALITY. At one point Tails was offered the chance to JFK the mad warlord despot Robotnik. A dope robotic general of Robitnik's called Commander Brutus that looks a bit like Deaths' Head tries to seize power from Robotnik and was in the middle of thrashing Sonic and Co. Only for them to be bailed out by the psychopathic Super Sonic, who iirc then proceeds to attack everybody else in the vicinty.

[@robertlupa8273]

The "tails being told to shoot Robotnik, JFK style" was a test of personality, a sort of illusion. Tails passed it by _not_ killing Robotnik.

[@Excellsion]

@@robertlupa8273 Yes, emphasis on "offered." In the interests of an intriguing pitch about how wild it is, it's not as fun if you reveal that "hero did hero thing" in that circumstance.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

Okay but making Super Sonic a power up Macguffin with the losing your personality/humanity (they're hedgehogs, but you catch my meaning) kind of goes hard as a concept tbh. Although in the games I suppose it's not needed since needing all 7 Chaos Emeralds to activate SS is already a fair enough nerf against just yanking it out whenever it's convenient.

[@scottishdrunkard1845]

Funny you mention the two concurrently running Sonic Cartoons, because there was also a concurrently running Sonic Comic, where America had Archie’s Sonic the Hedgehog, the United Kingdom had its own Sonic the Comic by Fleetway Publications. It’s honestly worth a look, there’s some kickass tales in it, and original characters. Also a story where Tails JFKs Doctor Robotnik.

[@PeterEBI]

The sentence “Tails JFK’S Dr Robotnik”. Made me laugh so hard

[@flaviamartinez3292]

I like how you say things like "because sonic or "crisis on infinite sonics"😊

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Me too 😊

[@ReallyRASYT]

i'm really glad that since it's death the legacy of Archie Sonic has become people going "wow this is weird and therefore sucks" to "wow this is weird but wait hang on this comic is kinda awesome"

[@robertlupa8273]

For me it's "wow this is weird and often dumb and that's why it's awesome"

[@illford]

To me it's just "this shit sounds so stupid but very well written"

[@bearerofbadnews1375]

I was weirded out with the idea of giving Nicole Sally’s Ai a Lynx form, strange but cool.

[@PEHfinale]

The new IDW Sonic comic feels so bland by comparison IMO. I like my Sonic comics to be weird.

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

@@PEHfinaleThe problem is… these comics were made back when the Sonic franchise didn’t have a clear direction in mind. Writers were basically allowed to make whatever they wanted because there was no real solid foundation. Nowadays, the franchise has found an established identity, and SEGA clearly wants to maintain that brand image in most of their tie-in materials. Especially after the Penders fiasco.

[@gameyfirebro9645]

Fun Fact. Modern Eggman has reached pretty close to the SatAM one in terms of threatening presence, at least in the IDW comics. I mean take how he mercilessly chewed out his at the time second in command mere moments before the character's death by literally beating him to a pulp with his BARE HANDS before leaving him in the crumbling remains of one of the base, literally stepping on him on the way out. We need some IDW love too.

[@grizzakaful]

Yeah, he's definitely a menace. Though, in all honesty, archie eggman was worse. The dude had no problem having those who wanted to betray him on his team. To him, it was all part of the game. Guy would promise one thing, give it, then just destroy people anyway. Idw Eggman is ruthless, but he at least is honest about it to a degree. If he says he'll help, he will up until it's no longer needed, then betray you face to face. It's quite an interesting take for the guy.

[@alcatrazvongola]

IDW Eggman even used a GUN to occasionally try to shoot Surge and even pointed a gun at Tangle's head. It was such a surreal moment considering how Sega is allergic to Sonic and guns after the Shadow game.

[@Subpar1O1]

Eggman just fucking Starline's shit up with just his bare hands was genuinely so cool. I remember thinking as a kid that someone with his build had to be strong with how much taller he was; IDW Eggman throws hands and has guns on standby. He's rad

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@Subpar1O1 there is a retired British Sonic Comic, named sonic the comic, which clearly has spawned a popular British fan made online magazine site, named Sonic the Comic Online. Though the former was initially goofy like AOSTH, both are somehow more mature than the Archie Comics and are also spiritual predecessors of the IDW comic.

[@1ce867]

Wait satAM sonic in the comic isn’t Archie? And is Archie the same sonic as the idw comic?

[@EranMadeMonsters]

5:27 Well thats something new I've never seen "the sponge named Bob who wears square pants" say before. Never knew this comic existed.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

I love it when licensed art is just under the radar enough to where the main corporation protecting the brand image isn't paying attention and artists and writers get to go wild or poke a wee bit of fun with the material they're writing for.

[@professorescanor7310]

I'd love a retrospective of Scourge or just a deep dive into whatever the heck Ken was doing with the Echidnas .

[@gregcourtney751]

It was knuckles is green Jesus and Locke did nothing wrong. Also it's okay to bang your distant cousin.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Me too Though you should check Lowart. He has done video essay on those topics.

[@Megapig9001]

I think the balance of Ken’s darker ideas with Mike’s comedy worked really well. The stretch between issues 19 and 50 are some of my favorite Sonic comics to read

[@kab6754]

I just finished reading the entire ARCHIE SONIC run (didn't read Knuckles solo series for obvious reasons), and everything tracks. It was bonkers. And as it went on it just got more weird and full of weird politics and drama. It wasn't until writer Ian Flynn took over that another significant wave of change occurred.

[@mcmistle9892]

While it is VERY appreciated that Mike Gallagher gets any kind of mention since he rarely gets talked about, I wish this video did a little more to keep Ken as less of a focus and just talked about his work a little more in depth. Also I think Karl Bollers and the In Your Face Special should have gotten a mention, since IYF really marks one of the earliest times we see Sally’s character get some serious development.

[@CosmicSponge2004]

A couple corrections. 1. The SpongeBob Comics ended back in 2018 2. The Penders Lawsuit didn't force Archie to give the license to IDW. Ken Penders' Lawsuits were in the Late 2000's and Early 2010's, Archie decided they didn't wanna pay what he was asking for, so in 2011 they had Mega Man Collab with Sonic to WHIPE THE UNIVERSE, bringing in a new era that happened to exclude Penders' Characters, Scourge, Every family member of Sonic's, and just overall being more accurate to the games. Due to not only Archie not wanting to deal with Penders but also the writer IAN FLYNN wanting a more game accurate comic with the freedom Fighters in it. This reboot lasted from 2011-2017. SEGA simply grew tried of Archie because they had strange and dumb ways of doing business and decided to give it to IDW. Likely also for new direction since SEGA decided that the new (at the time) IDW Comics would be canon to the games and locked down to what their lore team approves of (sometimes that team includes Ian Flynn, who also writes for IDW and the new games in the 2020's) 3. Penders' big break started in the Knuckles Spin-Off Comics before he became the main writer on the Sonic Series 4. Those "nameless bots" are called Swatbots. This is mentioned ALOT in SatAM and ocasionally in Archie 5. The Dragon's name is Dulcy. She's from SatAM 6. SatAM was cancelled in 1994 but due to how production and stuff worked in the 90's, many people didn't know until later and comic's take a while to make so everything ended up coming together with it's release in 1997. Also why Robo-Robotnik didn't take over as THE EGGMAN until 1999. Plus, Adventures ended with a 1996 Christmas Special Overall, Great Video!!! Almost makes me wanna read those First 50 Issues

[@INFERNO95]

7. The 90s were not the worst Era in comic. 2010s and 2020s are the worst Era in comic.

[@PencilFan-hj3lo]

Wow. There's a lot of misinformation in this video kinda disappointing

[@CosmicSponge2004]

@INFERNO95 Well that's more of an opinion. Sales-wise, every decade after the 80's is the worst for comics

[@Pend3m0nium]

@@PencilFan-hj3lodefinitely not intentional but yeah I wouldn't blame him for not knowing every nook and cranny of Sonic comic lore

[@PencilFan-hj3lo]

@@Pend3m0nium yeah but I'm talking about stuff such as the sponge bob comic they describes as carrying the torch having already ended years before this video released or to my knowledge was written it just feels a little unprofessional I guess, just a few small script changes could have taken this video from a 7 to a ten

[@darknessrising2453]

16:17 Friendly reminder to ALL Sally fans then this is how Kenders WANTED Sally's story to end, with her dying (PERMANENTLY might I add) believing that Sonic had betrayed and murdered her. And Ken admitted that he wanted to kill off Sally because he thought she "cramped Sonic's style". Think about THAT the next time anyone wants to claim that Ian "hates her".

[@EmperorDodd]

I love the Sonic comics, both Archie and IDW, and would love to see more future Comic Drake videos about whatever aspects of either continuity tickle Drake's fancy!

[@RaFaPilgrim]

Not gonna lie, running a sponsor for a cigarette alternative in a freaking Sonic video is insane as hell LOL almost as insane as the Sonic Archie comics.

[@Adamwinters]

I was there at the beginning, getting the 0 issue off the grocery store rack and got all issues up through 52. The development was fun to watch as the franchise grew up but I have a soft spot for those silly but fun early stories.

[@mateushenriquepinheiro3197]

I would really like more videos about Sonic comics be it Archie, Fleetway or IDW. There is so much to talk about it each one and how they used different elements of the franchise to make their stories that I can certainly see it becoming a stable of the channel if you're really interested in analysing them, because they kind of feel like a breath of fresh air when compared to other superhero comics or even tie in game comics

[@illford]

I just want him to talk about Fleetway because I'm British 😭

[@pockystyx4087]

As someone who grew up around the time the Archie comics were around; and really only started reading since the IDW series, it was always interesting to go back and read how. . . wild some of the ideas and stories were in the old comics. It's definitely an acquired taste; from the art style to the "interesting" takes on some of the characters. But you can tell that there's a lot from there that could/should have been saved. I am at least happy the IDW stuff has gotten the chance to make the crossover to official games, with characters like Tangle, Whisper, and Surge being in the mobile stuff. Its a far cry from characters like Sally being lost to the aether.

[@viviotheshadowmage5713]

Sure, I’d like to hear your opinions on Scourge! He’s great, and surprisingly holds high popularity even to this day, with Surge being the closest thing to Scourge we can get “in canon”.

[@Future_Vantas]

Even more so with how Sega brought in Surge to Sonic Forces Speed Battle. Really hoping more comics characters make the jump to the games.

[@illford]

​@@Future_Vantasnow that SEGA has way more input i wouldnt be surprised

[@warioskapelli3100]

Yes we absolutely need a video on Scourge. Probably the best use of the “Prime Earth” concept in comics and combining Sonic’s personal desire for absolute freedom with an existential crisis makes for one of the most fun evil doppelgängers ever. #AllHailTheKing

[@tfrye1227]

Would LOVE a retrospective on Scourge, and really everything on how Ian Flynn turned around the series. Fun Fact: E.V.E. returned in issue #128 when Sonic was flying through space and ran into her. Pretty fun issue on her development as an A.I.

[@theshenpartei]

Fun story I kind of met Ken penders at a comic convention of august last year. I saw him out of the corner of my eye when I was walking around the Convention and I did meet his second wife and bought a patch from his booth and got business card as well. When he was at the convention he was getting an autograph of William Shatner. He was selling his Archie comics for about 100 dollars which is a little out of my range I can buy less on eBay. It was surreal to see him.

[@robertlupa8273]

What do you mean "second wife"? ._. I thought he only had Bernie (yes he named Sonic's mom after his wife).

[@theshenpartei]

@@robertlupa8273there was a divorce with him and I know about that tid bit. Bernie was his second wife.

[@theshenpartei]

@@robertlupa8273yes I know about that tid bit and I say second wife since he went thorough a divorce.

[@theshenpartei]

@@robertlupa8273i figured as much and it wears quite obvious and as for the second wife thing yeah ken went though a divorce. Ken brought it up on his Twitter account.

[@theshenpartei]

@@robertlupa8273Ken went through a divorce and i knew about that tid bit about Sonic’s mom being named after his wife. It’s just cringe when he did that.

[@popculturehero]

Sonic was the first comic I followed regularly, so this was a fantastic hit of nostalgia. This video did its best to focus on the exceptional parts of archie Sonic, I certainly saw it as the continuation of the SatAm series. The early stories really were a blend of everything to that point, including the games. They built the world out. Its kind of beautiful that it outlasted the cartoons, and carried the torch from the 90s to the 2000s. Trying to integrate the Sonic adventure era as well.

[@Hapasan808]

I'm so glad you made this video. I really enjoyed the Ken Penders vid you made!

[@camerondodge2070]

I have to give Ken Penders credit, his work is what led the series to become what it did with later writers, and I do like some of the stories of his era. However, because of him we can no longer have Sally Acorn, and Nicole the Holo-Lynx. It's a complicated legacy.

[@zaynoonmoses]

That's wrong he doesn't own the freedom fighters the wolfpack or ixis naugus basically anyone the satam cartoon

[@camerondodge2070]

@@zaynoonmoses No, we still can't have them for some stupid reason. I don't recall exactly, it was something like Sega doesn't want to use them because they're too closely connected to this stuff, or they don't want anyone getting any ideas, or something like that.

[@MistaJonz]

Patrick Spaziante’s art on this series is still to this day some of my favorite Sonic art ever put to paper, especially during Mecha Madness! Great video!

[@comicscinemaothermedia9247]

The difference between Pender's Evil Sonic and Flynn's Scourge is really interesting and would make a great video

[@mbizzle4952]

as a sonic fan and as someone who has collected a good portion of the archie run, I'd like to see the archie sonic covered in its entirety.

[@camhess3635]

Dude! This reminds me of what happened with the old berserk anime!! The anime left on a cliffhanger and bc of it so many people were drawn to the manga bc they craved more! It makes a lot of sense to me now as to why the comic lived on. I wonder if those in charge of the cartoon planned this or of this was just pure luck for the comic

[@conradojavier7547]

You should talk about Other Big Bads like Ixis Naugus, or Mammoth Mogul.

[@HoggiestHay]

God yes I need more bizarre Sonic comic content pumped directly into my veins, I'm begging you.

[@buttered_n]

We absolutley need more archie sonic love in comic discussions overall its just so weird and unique, and thats saying something for comics but its also really entertaining and even at its worst has a lot to it that is just fun about it

[@LostHeadStudios]

Archie Sonic has near infinite potential for discussion, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on IDW Sonic as well. It doesn't quite reach the highest highs of Archie, but imo its far more consistent, and the Metal Virus arc is phenomenal.

[@hymiepolania]

While there are plenty of truly fantastic 90s comics I understand where you are getting that sentiment and it is refreshing that they were providing commentary on this. I remember collecting and loving these comics growing up and realizing how bizarre they had gotten and kept getting them for that same reason. The whole mecha madness arc was peak.

[@theshenpartei]

Side note there is a FanFiction story about a human from our world being dragged into the Archie sonic universe and the name of the story is called recursion error.

[@erdood3235]

why did you tell that?

[@theshenpartei]

@@erdood3235TBH I thought it was worth mentioning.

[@ibilesfighter3.16]

Aint that an actual issue tho? Where the kids get sukced into the game/book?

[@theshenpartei]

@@ibilesfighter3.16no it’s not that is sonic live. Recursion error is another beast in its entirety and it’s not terrible. Just google recursion error sonic fanfic and see what comes up. The story is surprising good for the most part.

[@robertlupa8273]

Alright, that's another thing to add to my long list of "things I would totally love to read if I wasn't so lazy/didn't have the attention span of a mosquito (it sucks)"... By the way, I read the author's note at the start and it's fairly interesting, enough that it's all I need to reccomend to at least check out the fanfic.

[@Future_Vantas]

Awesome video, always like folks giving the spotlight to Sonic comics. Will always admire how Pender's successor Ian Flynn took the stuff from the Penders era and just tweaked it. He could have rebooted the entire thing right away, comics do that all the time. But he was a fan of the old comics and saw the potential in that world and all its characters and brought it out.

[@xiomarasom]

I just watched your other Sonic video a week ago after always skipping over it and was sooo surprised at how much drama was involved... love that you made this new one bc now I'm invested 😂

[@OhNoBohNo]

drake i absolutely need you to go over the super genesis wave event that wiped out like, half of all archie sonic characters. has there ever been a 'crisis on infinite earths'-type event focused not as much on simplifying things so much as taking out an entire writer's characters???

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

The Ancestor Cell in the 90s Doctor Who books. They destroyed Gallifrey and made a whole new universe that happened after the future war with an unknown Enemy that said writer made. Then again, after just getting rid of all his stuff a few books prior, accidentally ended up hinging on Laurence Miles yet again and then, according to him, all the writers proceeded to ignore the three page explainer document he sent for the new complex antagonist/anti-hero/non-Doctor time traveller. Faction Paradox is a beloved spin-off to this day and has a funny tendency to be more historically accurate than the main show, despite being centered to the periphery of a magical voodoo death-cult during the War in Heaven, where the main powers tend to fight using abstract concepts. They then brought back the show, after a different and completely unrelated time war (This one had Daleks.), just to spite everyone or however people phrase it these days.

[@OhNoBohNo]

@@sacrificiallamb4568 Fascinating! Thank you!

[@BugsyFoga]

Sad to think we’d probably will never see wild shit like this from sonic again.

[@flurpprulf1824]

I would freakin LOVE you doing through all of the highs and lows of this series

[@Fluffypro]

I remember reading part 1 of Mecha madness. I had to see what happened, so bad that I mailed away for part 2. (It was in a special issue and not in the grocery stores) I waited for what felt like ages for part 2, but it was worth the wait. Definitely my favorite sonic story.

[@user-id6po7lw2o]

Even before clicking on the video I just read the tittle and my mind went: "Penders".

[@ReeseGhost]

Please do a retrospective on Scourge, he used to be my favorite lol. Anarchy Beryl alone is such a funny concept

[@fodv93]

17:23 Idc what anyone says. Having a buff eggman in any form of sonic media would've been awesome.

[@edixont3567]

You should continue the Archie Sonic Comics including the post-genesis wave Archie Sonic comics before its cancellation in 2017.

[@majinsole8554]

Did not know the original Robotnik died for good, that’s crazy! Also, I have heard about Scourge in an infamous kind of way, but I don’t really know much about him and wouldn’t mind hearing more of what he’s all about. ~_~

[@Joey64YT]

In terms of Archie content I would like to see from you in the future. Either the Mega Man Crossover, or just the mega man comics in general. Or the Iron Domion Saga is one of my favorite arcs, it runs from issue 198-212, plus some side stuff in Sonic Universe the spin off comic.

[@RomanceRoach]

You should make a video about how surprisingly popular the Donald Duck comics are

[@tfrye1227]

yesss the love for Mecha Madness- truly one of the comic issues that made me fall in love with comics

[@DrCorndog1]

As I kid I just rolled with it when Robotnik died and Sonic beat E.V.E. by means of a philosophical debate (probably easier thanks to Spaz's art), but whenever I've looked back on that moment it's stood out as the inflection point for the comic and a stark, daring story in its own right. Well executed, too, I'd say (so it's more the shame Endgame turned out so badly).

[@Abominatrix650]

Could've called them "Echidnazis". Missed opportunity. Eve reminds me of the squid monster from Watchmen Another good video, Drake! Keep 'em coming! Especially since this is the only way I learn about Sonic lore!

[@ultimateluigi5208]

Dude I would LOVE a retrospective on scourge. considering there is very little videos on KZbin going in-depth on his character as well as his history it would be a fun watch for sure. Also scourge is just a funny as hell villain overall.

[@Saiyanprince1114]

Wait, this Penders guy is why the Archie Sonic and Mega Man comics were cancelled??? Adding him to my daily curses

[@zaynoonmoses]

I heard archie just discontinued megaman and Sonic Is unknown it was either or archie Sega

[@stevegoblin]

this is actually the best video on archie sonic like, ever, and im not kidding

[@ComicDrake]

That's not true at all, but I really appreciate the sentiment. 😅

[@sonicsaiyan07]

Something I wanna see discussed is Scourge vs. Surge from IDW. Not in a versus battle mind you but just a comparison between the two since they kinda fulfill similar roles or at least have similar IRL origins being based off the Ashura glitch.

[@SoranotRoxas]

Wasn't expecting Comic Drake to come back with some Sonic Archie lore again. 😊 A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

[@Karls_Clips]

Please now cover the fleetway british comics, i want to show the dynamic of the usa vs british comics.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

the funniest part of the cartoons is that AoSTH was supposed to be a prequel to SatAM... so yeah try to imagine the PINGAS Robotnik somehow becoming ruthless & competent

[@JudgementalGoat]

There's no way in hell I would ever read these comics, but I'll gladly watch every video you make about this topic man.😂

[@My_hands_are_sticky]

The Archie sonic revolution is here! I really liked this video, very accurate information, very good narration and the best of all you talked on a positive light about this comic, I swear if this video would've come out in 2016 or something it would've been ahead of it's time, everyone was talking shit about the comic even I ate that way of thinking but everything changed when I started reading it and found it that it gets way better with the mantle of Ian Flynn, so you gained a sub and I hope you make that scourge retrospective!

[@thepanelbiter9915]

I need more of these videos like Knuckles needs grapes.

[@makogrey7373]

i remember Endgame as a kid and thought it was the end, Local stores stopped selling it after that. Love to see more of these

[@mundane2macabre]

Penders seems like type of guy who legally not allowed to own a pet

[@TEHSMISH]

man, ive been looking for a new read after catching up with one piece, this was delivered to me as a reminder just in time.

[@FoolsGil]

My favorite thing about the Archie series is you can count all the retcons it's had one one hand. Imagine if Marvel or DC did that.

[@fancychicken7386]

Oh no not archie sonic, this'll be interesting

[@robertlupa8273]

6:03 To be more precise, the story went something like this: some time after Ken left Archie Comics, he started to file copyright for the characters he created for the comic. Archie caught wind of it and sued him for that. The court case was such a mess that it ended in a settlement (from what I understand, this means nobody really "won", though Penders insists he did). To avoid any further complications (and paying royalties to Ken every time they used one of his creations), Archie Comics rebooted the comic in-universe with the Super Genesis Wave. The eventual cancellation doesn't really have anything to do with the Penders controversy - it's a combination of low sales and Archie Comics wanting to move on from licensed comics, instead wanting to focus on their own properties.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

Ah, so big company hates paying royalties. Nothing ever changes, does it?

[@guardian962]

It would be awesome to see you talk about Scourge & his spiritual successor, Surge The Tenrec. They’re both fantastic & interesting characters.

[@AnAngryGranny]

Let's go! More Archie Sonic content can never be a bad thing

[@TailsFan92]

I grew up reading the Archie Sonic comics and was so sad to see the series abruptly end. This video was a joy to watch, and I’d definitely watch a Scourge retrospective, as well as any videos related to the Sonic comics. Great job on this one! 👍🏻

[@K1ng1995]

When you find out Sat AM Robotnik was voiced by Winnie The Pooh

[@AE_Thomas]

Sonic 48 was the first issue I ever got from the grocery store. Then, I got Sonic 50. Then, I never bought another Sonic comic again. It's so cool to finally know what the hell was happening in the books I originally bought for the art and destroyed by tracing and re-reading.

[@Ech0_0]

I still have these comics lol. Spaz's art was incredible

[@commonviewer2488]

A lot of "what" and "why" questions about Sonic can be answered with: "Ken Penders"

[@gregcourtney751]

Not really? He wasn't the only person working on it. Theres dozens of artists and writers oth before and after penders. Some stuff blamed on penders, he had nothing to do with. If anything Archie had a problem of too many cooks and everyone has their own meal plan. Penders is just the one chef who hates his job (his personal ideas on art were you don't use others ideas and hated massive worlds like dc and marvel with shared writers) whose ego made him the perfect scape goat.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

What amount of Sonics does it take to change a banana into a lightbulb?

[@EmperorDodd]

Nitpicky technicality: It's not _quite_ true that Dr. Robotnik was never resurrected after Endgame. There was one issue where Robo-Robotnik did manage to bring him back to life--but the method he used turned out to only work temporarily, and the original Robotnik was dead again by the end of that same issue. So, yeah, doesn't really count. For all intents and purposes, Dr. Robotnik really was never resurrected

[@drbowser166]

A video on Scourge? Heck yeah let's see that!

[@notaducc]

Was not expecting more Archie Sonic content from here but now I need more of this man losing his mind trying to explain all this

[@duckmurai]

These TLDR video are helpful like reader's digest. Please make more!

[@YeetoTheYeetafic]

ken penders' stories don't seem that bad, but comics rely on looking good most of the time and good writing but ken pender just draws horrifying sonic characters by making them even more anthropomorphic so i gues the good writing is all his comic run relied on

[@EmoCowboy.]

these comics, those shows and video games were my entire childhood man. seeing folks like you dig into them and talk about em to the public takes me back

[@keelanbarron928]

Bit off topic, but it's kind of funny that you keep changing the thumbnail. At this point, I'm just expecting one of them to be kenny or yuji naka with Sonic looking on in horror.

[@simonmittelstadt6680]

It's kind of interesting that comics are often used as a punchline these days, and of course the creative person who made them is, too, every now and then I have to agree. But it was still extremely successful and I think there was something in the soup that also appealed to people. I compare it a bit like with the superhero comics from the Golden Age and Silver Age, which actually have a target group of eight to ten year olds. and it's not like these comics had interesting concepts that were actually quite adult, it's just that superheroes became more and more adult. Especially as a child, I was more attracted to things that seemed forbidden or dark, especially when you had the feeling that you wouldn't be talked down to.

[@TheGreenSkelet0n]

You know what's funny? Despite Ken Penders making Sonic stories more grim and dark and gritty... He actually barely touched Shadow the Hedgehog, the character from the Sonic franchise who is known for being grim and dark and gritty

[@MelodicQuest]

I grew up loving Sonic, and still do (despite the lows of the franchise). I play every game and watch every show, but the comics have always exuded me. It's an interesting world that manages to blend wacky characters with real stakes.

[@SSJ22Terris]

I'm always down to hear someone talk more about Archie Sonic

[@saiyantwan]

Unless it was a local thing the first 2 Sonic shows weren't on the same network. SatAM was on ABC and Adventures was on the USA network.

[@wdcain1]

I know Ken Penders is largely regarded as a joke now, but deep down I can't help respect him for how wild his run got.

[@theshenpartei]

Same here but that is overshadowed with the tweet about sally and that skunk.

[@matti.8465]

It's good to have a writer with influences beyond Sonic, the problem is that Penders had no knowledge or interest in the source material

[@ashesGeek]

​@matti.8465 to be fair, it's not always a bad thing. A lot of writers don't have any knowledge or even care whatsoever about the source material yet they can put great ideas and can deliver some of the best stories. "The fan=great work" is overrated, to be honest

[@wdcain1]

@@matti.8465 It's not like Sonic had all this grand lore. At the time there were only three console games and all of them had the same plot: Robotnik is making animals into killer robots so Sonic has to stop him.

[@ashesGeek]

@@wdcain1 plus, as it was shown in the video Penders said himself the only rule they were given from Sega is that Sonic must be cool guy so they had to make something bold to make the comics more interesting. If anything, Penders along Bollers held Archie Sonic series together and if that wasn't for their involvement Flynn would never make to the crew and carry on the series(until they screwed up, got lazy, had to do inferior reboot and then Sega got lazy and decided to cancel the series)

[@gamefreak5590]

Definitely want that other hedgehog story. Scrouge is so cool!

[@8hant0m]

These Sonic Comic videos are awesome. They feel strangely nostalgic and I feel like my insane knowledge on the series is validated by watching these! Keep them coming man!

[@niclaircasseus3673]

Those two different sonic cartoons airing at the same time totally confused the hell put of kid me. I kinda always waited for scratch and Grounder to appear in satam 🤣