The Most CONTROVERSIAL Art Advice (& Why People Hate It) || SPEEDPAINT + COMMENTARY

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

"Learn the rules before you break them" has several unspoken caveats that actually _do_ need to be said out loud sometimes. Rules like _"you may accidentally break the rules and find a way to do it better for you"_ and _"there's a lot fundamentals and you're not going to have to learn all of them in one go before you have fun with it"_ and _"you're allowed to reverse engineer the process if you like to work that way."_

[@Rj-27]

Learn the rules before you break them but as you learn all the rules it feels like it never ends... 😭

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

@@Rj-27 That's learning in a nut shell. You learn basic biology, only to find out there's intermediate, advanced, advanced plus, expert, and legendary biology after that. You learn basic arithmetic, only to then be told there's about 47 other branching mathematic paths from there. You get your conversational native language down, to then have to get through everything about writing, there's more words you didn't realize where available, and get bombarded with the good ol' fact that somehow learning a completely different language will boost your understanding of the one you're already speaking. It's all never ending, and that just means we shouldn't get bored of it any time soon.

[@Rj-27]

@YourWaywardDestiny I actually started learning Japanese and didn't practice English (native language) because I thought it didn't need to since I can already speak fine enough to be understood. And then somehow learning Japanese made me forget English words. It's probably just a me thing and while it did boost my memory in general I also somehow started forgetting my language and speaking in Japanese pronunciations when trying to read words I'd never seen before. In other words I completely agree with your point. It's just good to have a healthy balance of practicing what you do know so you don't forget. Don't end up like me. 😭🙏

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@YourWaywardDestiny this. I wish I could like it more times.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Rj-27 "And then somehow learning Japanese made me forget English words. It's probably just a me thing " - as a person who speaks three languages I can tell you - it's not a you thing, it's a human thing. 🙂Brain compartmentalises everything we learn but tend to remember and recall things that are used more often (neuropaths strengthening), hence while you may remember that the word for novel in Japanese is shousetsu, but you will forget it in English, since you probably are not actively recalling this word as often as in Japanese. As for the native language - you should hear me talking to my friend: uh, what was that word in Polish again? Only English equivalents are in my head now. I use English way more often on a daily basis than I use my native language and yes - I do forget words in my native Polish. Don't worry - just learn and also from time to time repeat the words you forgot in English and you'd be fine. Our brains are lazy and they will grab the first word the remember best, regardless of the language🤣I sometimes have to go through Japanese, German, English and French in my head before I recall word in my native Polish, but that's the fun of it that I love. 😄

[@istealpopularnamesforlikes3340]

This is a very similar case in programming as well. Learning the standardized basics is important, but I’ve also found that some of the most interesting innovations come from people who didn’t learn the traditional way. But of course, big caveat to entirely self-learning programming is that your documentation & readability is going to be sloppy.

[@RipePineapples]

The only time I ever hear "Learn the rules before you break them" is when some realism purist tells me that learning stylization is something that can only be achieved after I've mastered realism, which is just purely illogical. Though regardless it's just a correctness over enjoyment approach that I wholeheartedly disagree with. Draw what you like drawing, and only study if and when you feel like studying.

[@dan_mnght]

I never have learned realism or made any drawing using realism and still think learning basis of drawing rules is still a more efficient way of getting better. This advice have nothing to do with learning how to draw realism.

[@RipePineapples]

@@dan_mnght I said that the context in which I usually hear the phrase it is from realism purists, not that the phrase itself was related to realism. Not everyone wants to 'get better' at drawing, a lot of people only want to draw what they like drawing.

[@dan_mnght]

@@RipePineapples yeah, thats why people have free agency to ignore advices, or just don't ask for them

[@RipePineapples]

@@dan_mnght Ok?

[@avivastudios2311]

Yes, true. Stylization can be done without learning how to make realistic art. If someone wants to make realistic art they can study anatomy and all the tough things but that doesn't get you closer to stylization.

[@TheLimeCrimes]

"Learn the rules as you break them" seems to be the compromise that works best for me.

[@potato_frog-i2e]

I am an intermediate artist. I have minimal knowledge of anatomy and I love my art so much. I always have room for improvement (hands), but I do that at my own pace. Basically, F around, and find out. Do what you want and if you like what you're doing, and you want to improve, then do it at your own pace. If you don't want to learn and you want to do what you love, then do that. Drawing should be fun; don't let some art advice ruin how you feel about your art. Keep drawing, keep improving, and have fun

[@yourmourningstar]

I think having a solid grasp of realism and why things look the way they are should be a goal for any artist who wants to improve eventually. But that shouldn’t bar you from ever making things that are just for you. What bugs me about this advice is when people say to learn the rules, but then don’t explain how, where to start, what rules to learn first, and when it’s acceptable to start stylization because you’ve met some invisible quota. It’s like the “just practice” advice. When advice is simple enough to make sense at a glance, it’s also too simple and not specific enough to be usable without further explanation.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

"Just practice" is totally sh!te. How to practice, when and what is crucial to improvement. For me there are two key elements: construction and deconstruction. Construction is when you draw a shape and then turn it into more organic form. Deconstruction is taking your reference and deconstruct it into those simple forms to make it easier to draw the thing in proportion. Then, there is manipulation, i.e. taking your basic form (solids) and squish it, squash it, split, cut out etc. The things above are the core in my experience and helped me immensely. "and when it’s acceptable to start stylization" - when you understand the mechanics of drawing, meaning you can take any subject and render it according to perspective, because object in perspective is the essence of the art, in my personal opinion. Unfortunately, most artists here on YT will give you some half and even quarter truths about drawing, so they can sell their full programme which might or might not include those fundamentals. :/ My advice is: use multiple resources. Some books, courses, films will explain one aspect brilliantly and the other not so much, but other will. Fidning good resources is as important as learning itself. That is if you are truly dedicated and don't want to draw "for the sake of expression". :/ Every single thing requires huge amount of effort and learning if it is to be done well. And years of practice.

[@Mrnnki]

In order to learn the rules, you need the coordination to execute on them in the first place. Learning the rules when you lack the ability to control your tools will just lead to frustration. My number one tip basically just amounts to "fuck around and find out" because that's what you need to do to develop that basic coordination. The details can come later. My art improved greatly after getting a drawing tablet because I was more coordinated with a tablet than with a track pad. It was physically easier for me to draw.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

You don't know how to hold a pencil? This is all you need to learn fundamentals.

[@Mrnnki]

I think you missed the point of my comment. Drawing is a physical skill as much as it is a mental one. It requires coordination and strength like any other physical skill. Not everyone-especially the young or disabled or inexperienced-have developed their reflexes, grip strength, eyesight, etc to the level of an experienced artist. That was the point I was trying to make. Personally, my hand-eye and eye-to-eye coordination is terrible (to the point I had to do exercises as a kid and they didn't even help) so thinking "I need to draw a straight line here and a box here" is very different from actually being able to physically do that. I can watch a video on how to draw blood from the jugular vein of a horse or dog as much as I want, that doesn't make me an experienced vet tech. And if I can't pull back the plunger because my grip strength is too weak? Well, then I can't draw blood, can I? Someone can study all the fundamentals they want, but sometimes they need to just draw because their hands aren't steady enough yet, or their eyes don't work together quite right, like how a vet tech in training might need to play with a syringe before they can actually start giving medications or drawing blood (which is something I actually had to do, because my grip wasn't strong enough!). I feel that the physical portion of drawing is not emphasized enough. Sometimes "learn the fundamentals" doesn't help because the assumption is that the fundamentals don't include holding a pencil, when they really should.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Mrnnki I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood your previous comment - I totally agree - fundamentals do include holding a pencil and as a person affected by mild cerebral palsy - developing fine motor skills is not easy for some people. "Someone can study all the fundamentals they want, but sometimes they need to just draw." - nope, even when you are developing fine motor skill as a child you are given very specific exercises to do so. I remember preparations in kindergarten in what is called in my country: zero grade, which was spent on drawing simple, linear ornaments with simple shapes like squares or triangles or circles etc. They were very deliberate to prepare us to learn how to write, how to use wrist and do it in such a way that we don't extort ourselves and our hands. Many amateur or self-taught artists have wrist issue, because they don't know how to ergonomically use the pencil, when to hold it close to the tip and when to use the end of it. "Just drawing" is a terrible advice. I've been there - helps sh!te. For steady hand there are many exercises for artists and they are usually recommended for warm ups - how many amateur artists do you know who actually do warm-ups? As you mentioned, drawing is a physical skills and requires learning how to go about it. "I feel that the physical portion of drawing is not emphasized enough. Sometimes "learn the fundamentals" doesn't help because the assumption is that the fundamentals don't include holding a pencil, when they really should." - they actually do, it's just a matter of looking for them. Proko for example has video where he teaches how to hold a pencil, how to move it around and he has solid advice in his videos. Unfortunately, most KZbinrs will try to sell you your course, not teach you anything in their videos.

[@Mrnnki]

You've brought up some great points and exposed some blind spots in my personal knowledge! You're definitely correct that exercises are available for those sorts of things. I'll have to check Proko out when I have the time. I mostly learned through focused "fooling around," which was pretty much just self-guided experimentation (what happens if I draw without lineart? Can I draw this set of bones we talked about in anatomy class? What if I drew eyes this way? Etc). I'm the kind of stubborn person that wouldn't have done well in a typical art class because my interests are so laser focused that it would be a slog to draw anything else. So, that has definitely skewed my perception. 😅 Since you mentioned it- warmup sketches are actually something I struggle with. Do you know any resources that may be helpful?

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@Mrnnki for example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYO0aZKli9lspK8&ab_channel=JessKarp kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYbGiod3nqiEr7M&ab_channel=MarcBrunet kzbin.info/www/bejne/eajPmJ-ilM57ra8&ab_channel=RTIFEX I usually draw lines in all directions, draw circles of different sizes, waves and then simple shapes of different size - scaling them up and down. I.e. I am doing straight movement and complex movements to warm the muscles needed for every possible move I can do. I also change from tripod grip to candle grip, I change the strength with which I press the pencil - there are so many ways to do it. I sometimes even just write a couple of kanjis and hiragana or a couple of words in a foreign language, but scaled up to spice the things up. Then I do a simple drawing - anything, but focus on contours - no shading, nothing. If I can replicate it relatively easy and within max. 10 mins. - I'm good to go. :)

[@dan_mnght]

Artist 1: I wish my drawing didn't look stiff/flat/boring. Artist 2: Well, you could look onto the basis of anatomy/Lighting/Character Design. Artist 1: But I don't wanna study! Artist 2: ..... You can dislike your own art or don't want to study, but you can't do both.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

Aymen! Cheesus Crisp, someone has said it!

[@CloyMush]

As a hands on learner, with a chaotic attention span, yes. Preach.

[@Hatsune-Miku_Fan]

This is personal,but the worst advice i heard was "ink cleanly" and i wouldn't be able to finish artwork anymore because i was so stressing over the inking and how i didn't wanna make it clean at all ... Now im fine with inking cuz ive realized that quick and messy is what works for me and my art . So always take advice with a grain of salt 🧂

[@Faolain]

I've always been of the opinion that in order to even get to the point of "learning the rules", someone has to have already cultivated a love for art and creativity to begin with, and they do that by just being self indulgently bad at art. If I wasn't allowed to just draw self insert harry potter doodles as an 8 year old where the heads were the size of the rest of the body because it wasn't technically perfect I don't think I'd be doing professional art now.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

As an 8 years old you probably focused more on drawing HP than becoming a professional artist. In my country we have art high schools and kids as early as 14 have to bone up on their fundamentals to even be able to pass the exam to such a school. If they are not serious - drawing for themselves is still an option.

[@ArtofAmethystFable]

I was given that advice but in turn was told that I should focus solely on the fundamentals and once I got better I would be able to do what I want. It did suck out the fun which slowed me down greatly, until I started doing both at the same time growing while having fun. I am glad I could benefit from the way that worked best for me.

[@Rainears129]

I had a watercolor teacher that would tell us the rules of the medium, but encouraged us to experiment and break them. She also would tell us standard practices, but would always enjoy when we broke from them. An example is that she told us that foam board (like what you use for project presentations in elementary school) was commonly used for textured pieces, but was very pleased and liked when I did a series of seasonal flowers on foam boards. Also, I know how to do stuff more realistically, but when I'm just doodling, I really don't bother with the rules because that's my fun time. And if you don't understand them, then how can you properly break them?

[@nelsama0881]

She sounds like a patient teacher :) Happy for you!

[@realjustdjango]

My own two cents on this: I feel it's worth to mention that a valid style is to do what interests you, draw in a style you like, and then look at how things are usually done if you're strugglung to grasp the concept. Like, when I was learning guitar (didn't get far, but still), I did so because I love bands like AC/DC and Guns'n'Roses, but whenever I started or showed that I wanted to learn, I was just told "oh yea, learn the chords and all that", which were too difficult for me to do and didn't sound how I wanted to sound. So, I went to learning riffs instead, which helped me stay interested way more than chords, even if I don't play as much if at all. And as I played the riffs, I ended up futzing around and learning about some of the music theory in the process. And now, in art, even though I barely draw due to personal things, I still do it the same way: start a drawing in my animanga style, then toward the end or in the middle of the drawing find some tutorials on the thing and study said thing a bit, then use it in either the current piece or the next. It is worth mentioning, too, that I learn in a different way than most others might. Like, after struggling with how to draw hands due to lacking tutorials, I found one that made it click, and I basically got the gist of that method in like two hours. A TL;DR here, it's probably better to just jump in sometimes, go with the flow and mess up as much as you want, then examine what you find wrong/not likable and study the fundamentals behind it.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

Learning riffs before chords, chords progression, chords change... No wonder you didn't get far. It's like learning how to drive by entering the Nascar track first, but you do you, I guess.

[@realjustdjango]

@marikothecheetah9342 True, pressing down one to maybe two strings at a time is waaaaay harder than contorting my hand into uncomfortable positions and switching from one to another contortion fast for the sake of "not learning to drive by entering a Nascar track".

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@realjustdjango You have the icing without actual cake but poor your fingers. As if we didn't live in times where you can google absolutely everything and learn the ergonomic finger setting on the fretboard... You must be a superb guitarist...

[@realjustdjango]

@marikothecheetah9342 As if I didn't try that and still failed. We can keep this petty squabble on music going on someone else's video **about drawing** that I commented on to share my thoughts on and give another side of the **drawing**. I don't give a damn either way, free entertainment is free entertainment, even if it's someone like you who's trying to argue with me as if I'm any normal user, yet ends up resulting in being less productive than smashing your head against a brick wall. But you do you, I guess.

[@averysmith9943]

As someone who does want to learn the fundamentals, I’ve also found it very confusing as to where to even start. There are KZbin channels that have playlists claiming to teach you everything, but those have never been that good in my experience. I know you have said you don’t want to teach the fundamentals, but could there be a video where you just list what they are and how to learn them? Like for example, “here’s what composition is and I learned it by doing this.” I would find that REALLY helpful.

[@KwehShiro]

i went to school to know the fundamentals, before that i only drew by copying what i saw. both are correct way to learn but learning fundamentals helped me a shit ton. i cant imagine learning the fundamentals by yourself, sounds like a rough time. it's been so long since i went to school i wouldn't be able to help much myself... i never knew people hated that 'advice' personally, first time i see it. there is a part of truth in learning the fundamentals to break them. i think people imagine its strict and black and white path, it's not... you dont have to draw realism to know some basic things like color theory, lighting and anatomy, it's tools to helps you have a stronger understanding of what you want to do. for instance, choosing colors that dont go together because you wanted that to happen, to show dissonance or conflict, versus choosing them because they are cool colors. the latter isnt bad, but you can have a deeper understanding of why you choose to do what you do with knowing basics. an advice about hands i saw online, not the hand themselves, but making their placement make sense, draw the hand first before the arms. hands are the gesture so they should lead the arms, or something like that. to me it helped remove some pressure on the task.

[@whoahanant]

I mean you can type in "what are the art fundamentals" into a search engine or YT and probably find a list. From there you'd just have to search and learn each fundamental. Perspective Anatomy Composition Color and Color Theory Lines Values Forms and Shapes Textures Are all various parts I'd recommend. Note: Shapes is more about 2D shapes. Forms is talking about learning 3D shapes which is important if you're learning anatomy cause it helps you draw from different angles. Circle vs Sphere. Square vs Cube. These are important to learn cause that's how alot of people draw things like humans, animals and architecture/furniture ect. Kinda makes doing art really easy when you can sketch out a head or chest out of a square/cube or circle/sphere. You can do almost any style by learning shapes and forms and those help when you do stuff like anatomy and perspective later on. Shapes are Forms were so easy to learn and it's the reason I can bang out a toony or semi realism sketch in an hour or more.

[@LoveAndHunger]

Personally, I find I like to learn things by studying off of references that display them strongly. I did this for anatomy, perspective, lighting, so on so forth. So for example, if I were studying lighting, I’d use references that had very strong lighting. I’d redraw them in my own way, like with my own characters and such, but keep the fundamental aspects I was trying to learn. That way, after practiced enough times, it eventually started to click in my brain and I could execute things without relying on references as heavily. That may not work for everyone, but that’s what worked for me! :)

[@alexandertruesdale4211]

I would start with the elements and principles of Design. You might also try to see if you can take an art class at your local J.C.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

I know that Chat GPT and alike have a bad wrap but I would recommend using them. They will provide you with unbiased, coherent list and advice without trying to sell you their online course :D

[@MelodyMute]

Even the people who just "don't like hearing it" are doing so most likely because they don't realize yet that's not how they learn, and are purely frustrated without being able to express why. That and there are people who say the advice and do mean "learn realism/semi realism". Every tutorial I've seen growing up explaining how to draw parts of the body are usually in at least semi realistic styles, never more cartoony, and it makes it hard for me to learn from any of them cause I can't learn from those styles. If I have difficulty learning from real life photos, having real life but on paper doesn't suddenly make it make sense. I learn from seeing styled art cause that's what I'm trying to make. I'm thankful for more artist are making tutorials in their own style. Even if I don't want to draw in their style, styled art is a lot easier for me to take apart mentally to see what I want to learn from it.

[@pemanilnoob]

Learning slowly and just drawing for the fun of it has always been how I work, and if I actually try hard to study, I go overboard and I end up getting pain in my wrists for weeks I don’t wanna have constant pain in my wrists And I like how my art looks anyways, I don’t want to try and do realism

[@MetalGemstones]

I think part of the issue comes from the perspective of "Learn the rules and fundamentals before you break them" where people should feel encouraged to find their own path to art in a conductive and constructive way for them. I actually think this advice works, but the way people can go about recommending it often leads to frustration because they don't know the best ways to help or guide them, only saying to figure it out, leaving people stumped or spiteful. Often times people will say to focus on the fundamentals without giving any guidelines on what to focus on or follow. If I wanted to draw fauna and flora but am just told to learn the fundamentals, where do you get the fundamentals? While it is easier than ever thanks to the internet, finding the right places to find the fundamentals can be challenging. So one problem is simply giving/directing/helping for getting the fundamentals. Another problem stems from the mentality and methods of learning. For some learning then breaking works. Others break then learn. Some break while they learn or learn while they break. Some do realism first then stylize, some vice versa. It should also be noted of the ideas of learning from one specific source vs learning from multiple sources, people prioritizing/downplaying one style of art over another (people saying hyper/photo/realism is boring, stylization debates, issues with drawing in an "anime" artstyle when animanga is done in several artstyles, subject matter, etc) can also be some reasonings that could hurt the process of learning. The idea of "having fun" when drawing where people want to draw for fun but then still want to improve yet they choose not to use resources available (depends) can also be another issue, usually pertaining to their goals in art. Some people just want to draw to depict what they need or convey an idea. Some draw for leisure or relaxation. Some draw for fun. Some draw for work. Some draw for themselves. This can also go back to what you said about constructive criticism and commentary, whether it's warranted, wanted, or not. Not everyone wants to draw for seriousness or fame, they may want to draw for a skill to learn. Take for example: Chicken scratch. Rough lineart isn't the same as it simply has rougher lines incorporated in the drawing but still read legible for the overall piece, usually cleaned up from sketching. Sketching tends be quick or purposely unfinished drawings meant to put ideas down for any reason. They can look however the artist need them to be. Doodling/Scribbling are fairly simple drawings that have some meaning to them. Chicken scratch (which would be separate from abstract arts in general, asemic writing, or cases where people have harder times in coordination) tends to have excess lines to a degree where there is no confidence in the linework. The problem mainly comes from utilizing the lines and linework. There are ways to remedy this like being more confident in linework/making conscious decisions when drawing where each line has a purpose/accepting mistakes and missteps but finding its strengths and more, but it is not a monolith and in most cases is a problem if the artist thinks so. TL:DR - Leaning the rules and breaking them should be malleable/bendable/adjustable, not only one way of learning. Learn from the sources you need, do the art you want to do, and enjoy the journey. One way of drawing is not any better or worse.

[@miimiiandco]

When I first started drawing, I didn't know what the rules were. I just drew in the only way I knew how - copying Miis. I don't think it was until mid 2022 where I first began interested in truly learning what anatomy even is. It took me ages to start considering proportions! Even now, I'm still learning how things work, like what legs look like (I usually draw them as simple cylinders), or how hair works. You don't need to learn everything in one go. Just learn what you want to learn, one thing at a time.

[@Logayy]

If I would have followed the rules i definitely would have lost the fun in drawing. I drew because it was fun and not to look good and I chose myself that I wanted to learn the basics, so after years of drawing what i wanted i started learning. It helps to make the art look better yes, but sometimes people don’t want their art to be good to others. They just want to draw!

[@lisoak6504]

Exactly! I just want to draw my fantasy creatures,not squares,and circles.

[@echo_is_probably_sleeping]

Great video! I have similar opinions on this advice. My main gripe with it (when presented in a rigid and you-HAVE-to-do-this way) is simply that many people (including I) make art for the enjoyment of creating, and don't necessarily have a need to improve their skills (I do like improving of course, but it's not my main goal as I'm not pursuing art as a career). There's no rule that you HAVE to be focused on getting better at a hobby for it to be worthwhile; it's completely valid to just enjoy something without treating it like a school subject. (Just to clarify my tone, this is not aimed at anyone) But yes like you said, the advice is great for some people, but not everyone, and I think it should be presented as such (art advice, much like art itself, is quite subjective). Sorry for the long comment lol 😅

[@amandafrederickson3764]

I haven't gotten very far into the video yet, but had to jump in with this: the adage is inevitably going to cause raging frustration, because the "rules" themselves ARE broken. I can't tell you how many art books I devoured through middle school and high school and yet they did nothing to improve my art. They were all built from the same flaws. They would do things like explain how shadows work - but skip out on how LIGHT works, while putting the principles of light into practice in their examples. It's the same as the tutorials that get mocked all over the place for skipping all of the between steps - because that's how "the rules" are classically taught. There are important steps being skipped!Those who can pick up the unspoken steps do fine - but the rest of us are inevitably left behind. How could that NOT be a recipe for frustration and learned helplessness? You cannot tell someone "learn the rules first" and expect them to simply know what hasn't been taught, especially when the teaching is so deeply lacking. KZbin tutorials have been soooo much more helpful than any printed book or art classes (even the ones I took in college) because the "rules" are treated like guidelines rather than gospel, which turns technique into a tool instead of torture. Advice is only as good as the principles it's built on. "Learn the fundamentals" tells you nothing. "Learn how light and shadows interact" is specific, targeted, and gives a direction to move towards.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

"They were all built from the same flaws. They would do things like explain how shadows work - but skip out on how LIGHT works, while putting the principles of light into practice in their examples. It's the same as the tutorials that get mocked all over the place for skipping all of the between steps - because that's how "the rules" are classically taught." - no. It's not how rules are taught, it's just people, who don't know how to teach writing books and teaching. I did the same and trust me - as an avid learner of anything that interests me I do see the gaps in teaching - that doesn't mean rules themselves are wrong. No, they are just not well taught. "Advice is only as good as the principles it's built on. "Learn the fundamentals" tells you nothing. "Learn how light and shadows interact" is specific, targeted, and gives a direction to move towards." - agreed, although - when you say you learn a certain subject at school do you say e.g. well, I'm learning about protozoa and then fish and and mammals and birds and...? No, you say you are learning biology. But when you do that you split the knowledge into smaller pieces and this is no different with fundamentals. You have lines, basic shapes, basic shapes in perspective, basic shading, basic composition, basic composition with light and shadow etc. etc. Saying to beginner artists: learn lines, shapes, shapes in perspective, shading, composition, shape manipulation, colour theory takes just too much time for one breath. With Internet nowadays you can easily find out what art fundamentals are, I am a dinosaur and remember times when your only option was library. And people were still able to learn. Also - if you don't find the thing you need in one resource - look for another for that specific thing, and I'm sure you're gonna find it.

[@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012]

i've heard "don't turn stabilization 100% for line art". thing is i kinda have to. my hand is pretty shaky sometimes. i just want nice crisp curves without having to make a bunch of paths

[@wondaraptor]

I hate when people take "rules" too far without a nuance and therefore ruin said rule

[@ElvisRocking1]

I started drawing just for fun, I have been at it for 3 1/2 years. The first or two year was just fun and games. After that I decided I wanted to get serious and studied more. Now im way better and still have fun. Just a balance I guess.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

I guess you just approach drawing - whatever it might be - with a genuine interest and this is what makes a huge difference in your journey - your approach.

[@Shrimpozy]

I have diagnosed adhd, autism, depression and anxiety so that means learning the fundamentals (at least for me) is a lot more daunting and uncomfortable as well as not working very well at a learning standpoint because I personally learn differently . As a perfectionist I want to improve but I don’t want to have triggering thoughts every second because I need to learn ‘the right way’ to learn seeing as it doesn’t work for me. I feel much more comfortable and feel like I’m improving more by learning the rules as well as breaking them. This video helped me realize that I’m not alone learning this way and that some of the art community disagrees with ‘learn the rules before you break them’ standpoint . Great video!

[@Fairygoblet]

I have cerebral palsy. My art style is rather simple and blocky and I actually didn't draw for a long time because it took me so long to learn the skills that I wasn't drawing what I liked. I realized that even though my art is flawed there is a kind of life to it that just isn't there when I'm trying to learn traditionally. I'm now back to doing what I was doing when I was little, which is being more adventurous with my art and learning along the way instead of drilling myself. Why sacrifice what I love most about my art for learning in a way that doesn't work?

[@SonicVegeta]

2:09 And as we all know “Only a Sith deals in absolutes”

[@ghxst-girl6526]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for mentioning the groups of people who can't focus on studies if they're not engaging.

[@TheobaldLeonhart]

I, really don't like "learn the rules before you break them". And I kinda have an example, of how that held my art back Hands For years, I tried making my hands look like "normal" hands (long, and curved at the end). And my art sucked. It wasn't until I watched LavenderTowne's hand video, and saw her draw hands like squares, that I actually started liking drawing hands My hands still don't look great, but they look like hands

[@marikothecheetah9342]

I hate her art, tbh. Her advice though - is derived from the fundamental of drawing solids and then grouping them together to make more complex shapes. If you look at classical drawing books they often start with squares or triangles and avoid circles - that comes later on. But for that to know, you'd have to learn fundamentals.

[@AlkemyFrost-ju4hx]

there's also the point of educational barriers that can be a factor in different situations. It would mean that anyone who doesn't have the ability for whatever reason to access the right classes would be barred from being an artist. I remember i stopped following one artist who i think mostly painted flowers when she randomly went off one day about how artists shouldn't be prudes because every artist has to draw nudes to learn art. The idea for instance that to draw a landscape a person would have to draw male anatomy first even if seeing something like that could be a trigger for them is a huge nope from me.

[@pandapower3076]

The fact that even people who hate the "learn the fundamentals" advice admit it makes art easier just shows how good of advice it actually is. Literally someone in the comments said how awful the advice is then said "sure my art improved when I learned the basics but-" Honestly I think if it looks good it doesn't matter. Personally I've been learning my own way for 25 years and didn’t improve much until I started adding structure to my studies. Im just learning the fundamental and it's hard, stressful and not very fun. But I care more about what it can do for me in the future then how it makes me feel now. Its like playing a FromSoft game. It's miserable and nobody can actually tell you what's going on but when you have a major breakthrough it's worth it. I think the problem with this advice comes from how the advisor delivers it. They're usually condescending. The reason why I rejected the fundamentals in the first place was my high school art teacher. Instead of explaining to me like adult why I need to learn them he just pitched a fit about anime not being "real art". I remember how he had a wall size mural of Picasso's Guernica behind him thinking "that mess doesn't look like art to me". And to this day I still hate cubism and Jackson Pollock's glorified splatter paints. What Im trying say is all play and no work made me a lame Panda. I wish I could have learned just by drawing what I liked but I didn’t. I don't think you should abandon drawing for fun all together but I think structured is important.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

This. Nobody tells you (in general, not you personally) to not draw for fun, but if you really want to improve quickly fundamentals are unavoidable. Personally - I just learned to love drawing solids, then turning those solids in more organic forms, to just sit and draw organic shapes with cross contour - to love the process, not only the end result. You love the process - you WILL see results.

[@newbiegamelover4767]

When I saw the title of this, the first thing that popped into my head was "parody", where rules are sought out and intentionally broken.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

A good parodist understands rules inside out to know exactly how to skillfully breaks them.

[@barrysteakfriessimp_real]

i'm more of a subscriber to the "break the rules as you learn them" and "learn the rules as you break them" type of advice. learning the rules is important if that's what you want for your art, but it should also be fun and it should be a cool little experimentation and learning experience! i love learning to stylise the rules as i learn them and seeing what works and what doesn't for me. it's fun and i believe it's actually helpful for me! it's always been the way i prefer to study the fundamentals and put them into practise with the sort of stuff i like to draw. just my two cents.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

Do you find chores fun? Or something that must be done so you can LATER enjoy the clean house? It's no difference with art, just takes little longer.

[@shdkabdksb]

@@marikothecheetah9342 you are acting like there arent ways to make chores fun, like listening to music and dancing while cleaning the house, gamification, body doubling, using tools that facilitate and shorten the process (like using a vacuum instead of a broom, a expensive mop instead of a squeegee with a wet towel) art is nothing like this, art is created from feelings and personal experiences, you arent forced to do it, not even obligated to get better at it, and even the "getting better" is subjective, is doesnt follow a linear path unlike cleaning

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@shdkabdksb "art is nothing like this, art is created from feelings and personal experiences, you aren't forced to do it, not even obligated to get better at it" - oh mah god, the feelings the "ahtist" had, drawing a busty bimbo, because it sells! Oh, the emotions of drawing a fanart to draw attention on social media! Oh! Ah! Truly Young Werther's Pain! Of course you can suck at it as much as you want, but then people should not whine when their art doesn't get attention on social media. And I agree - if it's too much hustle - then don't do it, but don't go on shitting on fundamentals being boring.

[@shdkabdksb]

@@marikothecheetah9342 so you are just trolling around and didnt even watched the video nor read any of the comments you replied to, where on the comments talk about money or social media attention? you seriously think "how good someones art skill is" is measured by money or social media engagement?

[@barrysteakfriessimp_real]

get a load of this guy

[@toohopeful160]

What I found most effective for me in improving my art is passive learning and "learning as I go". I learn a lot of techniques and fundamentals from posts and videos I see every day, and while I don't always actively apply them, they become something I can keep in the back of my mind when I do decide to draw. And whenever I do draw, and the thing I'm drawing doesn't look how I want it to, I look up references and do a mini study to apply it well into the current drawing. It makes each art piece more time-consuming, but doesn't force me to just learn fundamentals for the sake of learning fundamentals. I learned how to draw braids with the goal of drawing my oc that has one, just as a small example, but another example is studying references of similar poses so I can do that pose in the piece I'm drawing. So in the conversation of this video, it would be "learn the rules that you need in that moment"

[@lunamoon2092]

So… how do I learn the basics?… like HOW HOWWWWWWWW

[@marikothecheetah9342]

Look for resources online, look through them, decide on which ones you understand and find engaging and practice it. Sometimes you will have to mix resources because rarely one resource will explain to you every single thing in a detailed and coherent way. Mix and match and see what suits you best.

[@leafy_5]

Trying to be a 3D artist and I tried really hard to jump straight to stylization making big elaborate scenes that no one liked but now I’m making “realistic” but very simple marble animations and getting way more likes 😂 but still!!!! 🫣🫣🫣😁😁😁 wonderfully explained video as always! 👏

[@marikothecheetah9342]

You can drop the plain drawing (2D) but you will benefit from learning about perspective, construction and deconstruction of an object immensely.

[@GloomyFish]

it's a rule I both love and hate for a bunch of reasons

[@pixlethevtuber]

I'd rather die than "leaen the rules before you break them". I **hate** realism art. Not just bc I'm not good at it, but bc it's **boring**

[@BleachedRevenant]

I'm also not a fan of realism but I haven't seen any other way to learn art besides mastering realism

[@irohanijiue3417]

​@@BleachedRevenantthen if you don't want to draw realism or It's not helping, then just don't. You're art study are your notes. They are made to help you understand the fundamentals. Why wouldn't you just use your own style. As long as you understand it, the style shouldn't matter. Would you write your math notes in a language you are learning or in the language you are used to? It's kinda like that. If the point of the study to help you get better at art, then you should use your style to study. Not doing so kinda removes the point unless realism makes the study easier for you to understand. Unless it helps you understand what you are studying, don't use a style you don't want to use.

[@BleachedRevenant]

@@irohanijiue3417 your advice is wasted on me I don't even know how to study nor I have an art style

[@irohanijiue3417]

@@BleachedRevenant well, look for something to draw and look at your favorite artists and see what you like about them. I love a lot of artists and it's hard for me to know what I want my art style to be like but I know my favorite artists can mostly be umbrella as anime art style for me. Experiment! Try things out until you find something that clicks and have fun. It's a good starting point to finding your art style or art styles. See what you tend to be attracted to and try to think what makes you like it.

[@devoniika]

in my opinion, learning the rules does not necessarily mean drawing realism - it just means understanding it. you don't have to follow the law to understand what the law is, y'know? understanding why something looks the way it does (or why something looks wrong in an art piece) helps with improvement, in stylised or realistic art, and i don't think you have to draw realistic art to get that understanding of the fundamentals, just use and study references. we can just kindly ignore the 'before you break them' part. besides, if you focus solely on realism, you're gonna be awful at stylising art - they're two different skills.

[@wezciemnie9847]

I really regret I never listened to it when I was younger, I never studied fundamentals until recently and after I did my studies I immediately saw SO MUCH improvement

[@lisoak6504]

For a long time a was drawing only for fun, with minimal improvement. Only recently I started actively learning anatomy and use references photos.

[@lisoak6504]

But of course some people are making nasty comments, because my art looks like it is made by 13 years old. Excuse me not everyone started learning fundamentals when they turned 11, and honestly the worst technically looking drawings gives the most fun drawing it

[@amnesiaenjoyer]

love the speedpaint in this one

[@JoelTheParrot]

3:07 This is how I learned you have a partner lol. and of course that partner's name is squarespace-

[@dreamingpichu2334]

I personally value happiness over skill or quality. My art isn't meant for other people, it's meant for ME. The only opinion that matters is MY opinion, because it's MY art made by ME for MYSELF. Therefore, I only ever draw what makes me feel good to draw. Sometimes that's more realistic, sometimes it's super stylized, sometimes it's surreal, sometimes it's horrifying. I think more artists should have a 'me day' where they just draw things that make them happy, instead of trying to meet the demands of teachers, critics, and bullies. Hobbies are meant to be fun...so let's have fun, whatever that might be for you.

[@Shrimpozy]

THIS 👆👆 IS PEAK AF

[@Cute_Clord]

The issue is that often when such advice is presented it comes with implication it's the only correct way to go through learning process, no deviations. I have learned to draw, including anatomy by going not traditional route and I only have gotten so far because I have made the process of learning enjoyable to me. If I tried to stick to learning in a way it's generally advised, it wouldn't matter to me. Could I have learned faster by focusing of studying anatomy instead of going through learning that stuff by my own way? No, because it doesn't help as an advice if I had quit due it.

[@Mousewith]

This is gonna be interesting

[@kuroichigoinc.415]

I’m definitely one of those artists that got held back by the “Learn the rules before you break them” advice. It feels like gatekeeping someone from drawing the things they enjoy until they reach a certain level of art. Plus, I don’t like drawing realism mainly because of how restrictive it can be and it can inflate my perfectionism trying to capture every detail. For the fundamentals, I think they should be treated as soft guidelines instead of hard rules since there are technically no rules in art. Yes, my art wouldn’t have improved without understanding the basics, but drawing the things I genuinely enjoy is truly what made me want to keep drawing.

[@booleah6357]

I agree it's the best advice for artists but it comes with a previous step before you can learn the rules and that's define them. For example the skills an animator will learn are going to be different from an illustrator. Though there is lots of overlap it's different mediums that call for different things. As for the fundamentals it's no different. Abstract or modern artists play by different rules as will other medium formats like video, or music, or drawing which often get forgotten as art forms because drawing and painting is the most common mediums when art fundamentals are discussed.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

"For example the skills an animator will learn are going to be different from an illustrator." - that is bs. If anything illustrator will stop at certain point, animator will ADD skills on top of those they already have. "Abstract or modern artists play by different rules as will other medium formats like video, or music" - it doesn't mean there are no specific rules. Try to make music without basic understanding of rhythm and melody. If you know notation and music theory your music will automatically be better, no doubt about it. And guess how the piece of music is called in the industry - composition. Rings a bell? Even abstract art deals with rules of composition. Let's take Malevich's "Black Square" - it deals with basic shape, it is centered and it also has light and shadow and colour theory all at once: black contrasts white and they are the extremes of shading. A simple painting but does follow the basic rules of composition, and color theory. And it's abstract. Film also follows composition and the golden rule, whether you like it, or not. Composition especially is developed in film as it is crucial in this medium, but light/shadow and colour also plays a huge role. Note how Matrix has mostly black colour, character's skin is bluish pale (except for black characters, but even they have the bluish shadows) to mimic the light of the machines. The very "static" colour palette contrasted with dynamic of the scenes. Note, how Hitchcock played with light and shadow in Psycho. I can assure you - paintings will have the same rules applied. Every visual medium draws from drawing basics and develops further those, that are needed the most. In animation - it is depiction of motion, in music - it is composition and how elements of it work together. In abstract art - it's also composition and what will draw viewer's attention the most - be it colours or lack of those, for the sake of emphasising shape or composition itself. The better you understand fundamentals the better you will be at extrapolating from them. People forget that Disney animators drew from life and Disney himself kept a small zoo for animators to practice drawing animals. None of the animals in Disney animations are realistic but they follow realistic rules that are exaggerated.

[@booleah6357]

@marikothecheetah9342 What you say is true but the modes of those fundamentals and how the operate does change with mediums. That is undeniable. Composition is important but it means different things to a musician or a sculptor. I don't deny that learning the rules matters but the rules are different. Light, shadow, and composition work differently in film and animation because it keeps movement in mind. In illustration the images tend to be more static. They can depict motion but they aren't typically multiple images and thus the motion is generally more contained. In songs rhythm and composition matters but it doesn't involve light or shadow to write one usually. There are some exceptions of course that strictly adhere to the rules but most forms of art do have their own rulesets when it comes to fundamentals.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@booleah6357 I respectfully disagree with everything you said. As I mentioned - some fundamentals are developed further to suit the medium but they are there - and I will stand by it.

[@booleah6357]

@marikothecheetah9342 That's fine we just agree to disagree then.

[@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012]

sonic's soap shoes are so burned into my brain that my imagination is the reference most times. i draw them too much

[@vedhagalaxy]

I super late but this is fun to watch nd really helpful

[@lovi9258]

I also want to mention the painstaking transition from realism to cartoon. When people say "learn the rules before you break them" they're usually talking about learning realism before drawing anime (atleast from where I'm from). And from the way people advertise this linear way of drawing brings up the misconception that because you draw realistically you can draw cartoons immediately and easily which is far from the truth. You then have to learn how to styilize which is a whole other can of worms when you're so used to such a rigid set of rules that come with realism. The reason I said this is because I heard quite a few artists who learned realism and only realism- say how hard it is to draw anime and cartoon. One of my closest friends who is a god at realism still struggles with the anime art style to this day even though she's been practicing and using her realism knowledge to help her but it's so hard for her So seriously, if you wanna draw cartoon/anime just do it. The "realism"/ fundamentals will come with time and motivation

[@ktostam35]

"Noo you can't draw stylized art you need to learn realism first!!!" If I learned realism first many of my favourite artstyles wouldn't exist. Also art is about creativity and realism is actually least creative if you ask me. No hate to realism, it's wonderful, but insisting you need to master realism to draw in any style (even tho some don't even need shading or anatomy) is just stupid 12:32 I see it like learning anything really. Some people rather learn from books, pthers from notes, and others from the internet, while some prefer learning through practice or observation. Some people listen to music or draw while studying, and even though many people would say "you can't do that, it distracts you!"for many, it works

[@B.O.Xproject]

Honestly its really advice that i personally dont follow because of how long ive been doing art I occasionally may try to figure out how to draw things but i never dive deep into the fundamentals because that put a strain on how often i would draw Ive been drawing since i could have memory and over time ive just naturally learned to look when i need to learn other wise im fine Stressing over learning everything i need to learn to improve ruins the art for me And when i do go to learn how to draw something its usually for a specific piece Like i have a animal charter i need to draw let me figure out what that animal looks like to i can do it right I may draw it normally first then go back to my original peice But not a whole art study worth of time

[@FrootDeMoN]

13:33 truer words have not been said

[@Alexandr_the_great]

Honestly I just learn anatomy by drawing with references. I have never sat down and was working on a study. I just drew for fun and studied at the same time.

[@MatrixQ]

I understand the "learn the rules before you break them" very differently, it seems. For one, you can only break rules if you know them. If you don't know the rules, you might not adhere to the rules, but breaking means a willful act of working against them, which you can only do when you know them. And that's kind of where I see this rule applied mostly. I've come across a lot of people with an "I'll revolutionize art by breaking all the rules" attitude, without having the first clue what those "rules" even were supposed to be other than "what everyone else does, maybe?". So while you absolutely don't need to do everything how everyone else does it, that's not the same as breaking rules. Even then, pretty much all rules in art are "over a long time of trying things, this seems to be what works best" kinds of rules, and if you can make something else work, awesome. But again, that's not necessarily breaking the rules. There's also a type of new artist (or any creative, really) that goes in with this "how hard can it be" attitude, and then gets frustrated when things really are hard to get things looking good, but since they are now a Creative (tm), rules aren't something for them, so they shove all advise along the lines of "try getting this basic thing right first, before you try the next thing" sort of way, because that's too rulesy. Now of course there's also enough people who will preach rules as laws and how dare you do anything else, and yeah, that's annoying and just wrong. But that doesn't mean "learn the rules before you break them" is always bad advise.

[@showdowncraft1659]

I'm tackling art like I did Video Games. Just diving straight in with know next to nothing about what I should do. Am I an idiot for that yes I am but I still feel motivated to do so then I would be if I too time to learn fundamentals

[@monikasalt]

Literally how I’m improving, for a whole year I drew just for fun, I made some progress, but not a lot, after that I started learning fundies, but not all of them and even to this day I still haven’t learned all of them but I’m still enjoying art and have made so much progress even if I just learned very basic anatomy and some color theory, I’m progressing slow but I learned it’s important to have a balance between practicing and drawing for fun, if I just force myself to practice I won’t enjoy art, if I just draw for fun I won’t improve so it’s important to have that balance

[@witchtale3159]

2:32 Hehe head go brrr

[@IceRiver1020]

This advice also gets used a lot in the writing community, which is funny, because it's pretty hard to say that writing has any actual rules. Guidelines, sure, but rules? These people either won't actually have a list of rules to give you, or the rules they give you are easily written off as not being actual rules, because they're really just tips, or preferences, and they don't work for everything or everyone. "Outline your story before you write it" is something that gets treated like a rule, and it actually harms people's ability to write, because outlining doesn't work for everyone. It's more applicable when talking about grammar and punctuation, but not story crafting.

[@TwinkleMaddie]

[Nevermind]

[@IceRiver1020]

@TwinkleMaddie Different people outline a little different, but basically it's just writing out a plan for everything that will happen in your story. I always have a rough idea in my head of how the story will go overall, but I never outline, I have a much easier time making plot and character decisions as they come up in the story.

[@TwinkleMaddie]

I never actually knew what it meant, I'm more used to hearing "outline" in digital art, not writing (I'm not familiar with terms related to writing).

[@IceRiver1020]

@@TwinkleMaddie You're all good, I often have to explain terms used in the writing industry to others, I don't mind it.

[@BleachedRevenant]

To me it just seems like there's no way to learn these rules at all but without them I can't draw what I want to so I guess I just suck

[@uanime1]

The reason we have "one size fits all" is because for the vast majority it's the best way to learn.

[@barbi111]

The easiest way to approach this to give it a try and ask ourselves if it improved my art? If so, it is true, if not then not.

[@LucifersLittleDemon666]

question: what's a "nepo baby"? (if I am spelling this right..)

[@sqwirry_5655]

I hope the answer is still relevant, I believe this word stems from 'nepotism' (it. 'nepote' = nephew) which is a historical and social term for the phenomenon in the groups where power is given to the relatives of those who are already in power. So, basically, in this context it's a golden child who doesn't need to work for success cause it'll be given to them one day!

[@LucifersLittleDemon666]

@sqwirry_5655 Thanks for the explanation! ^^ I never really heard of that word before so I wasn't really sure what it was.

[@marikothecheetah9342]

@@LucifersLittleDemon666 Think of all the cases you've heard that mother father and their kids or other members of family work in the same company or industry (Hollywood is flooded with these cases).

[@defaulted9485]

Teaching drawing, I seen firsthand that "rules first" is the fastest way to silently kick amazing students. Not everyone draws the same, or have the same mind mapping. I always try to chart how my students learn, but only impose rules when they are stuck or unable to improve their works themselves. This way rules becomes more digestible but also less authoritative. The default setting for people learning drawing is breaking rules. If they are stuck, only then apply rules like a splint to a broken bone. Drawing is different from music where rules are imposed first because the tool requires a degree of precision to be used without disturbing others.

[@alexandertruesdale4211]

I'm I the only person with an Art degree that has never even heard this advice? yeah I learned but I was never discouraged from stylizing.

[@t.r2603]

Learn the rules, don't learn the rules. My art looks terrible either way.😅

[@therobotjesterz]

First! >:3

[@rachelsmith9282]

u suck

[@ravencrow1011]

Unfortunately, i did the opposite, lol

[@marikothecheetah9342]

People can do whatever the hell they want. But I will definitely pass on an art piece that clearly lacks fundamentals, no matter how good the idea is.

[@shawncollins5127]

I've noticed I'm a mix on how I apply this rule. Things I'm relatively comfortable with(humans and anatomy) I tend to do just fine mostly doing the art I want while studying the rules and realism just fir fun and improvement. Go to backgrounds and perspective, yeah opposite. I don't improve to well doing just stylized stuff. I have to really study hard the rules and practice somewhat realistic versions(maybe more marvel/sc stylized versions) and I improve way better. Rendering and painting, yeah that's one of those weird things where I have to learn and practice both stylized and realism. I've noticed by doing both I improve way faster than doing only 1 of them. So I just learn and practice and study each thing a bit differently. But I've also noticed as I do improve each thing I have had to subtly change how I study that. For anatomy for example I did practice realism. And it helped but only if I also practice stylized anatomy. But now I improve my anatomy more by doing realism, but I can express it better by studying stylized anatomy.