The Most Overrated Form in Dragon Ball

I think Super Saiyan 3 is the most overrated form in Dragon Ball and it's not close.
BECOME A MEMBER TODAY: / carthusdojo
Super Saiyan 3 is a bad transformation. Put down the pitchforks and just hear me out. First thing I have to make clear is if you think Super Saiyan 3 looks cool - I agree - in the anime at least. The manga was hit and miss for me. Speaking of the manga, I want to be clear my focus is really on Dragon Ball’s manga and by extension the manga accurate portions of Dragon Ball Z so the non-canon Dragon Ball Z movies? Those are fine with me - if anything Super Saiyan 3 is cooler in the two Dragon Ball Z movies it’s in than any other time in the series. So if those are your reasons for liking Super Saiyan 3, great! I love that for you but in terms of the story of Dragon Ball it’s a really big miss for me and I think I can explain why in three points. And more importantly, I want to end with how I think Super Saiyan 3 could’ve been better used - I don’t want this to be all negative.
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#DragonBall #dragonballz #dragonballsuper

[@CarthusDojo]

the video isn't even out yet and the comments are making up what i'm gonna say. oh yeah, this is gonna be a good one

[@robertpalomera6409]

@@CarthusDojo definitely, absolutely 😂

[@youreuberdriverishere8840]

Fr

[@ProofofAlvinProblems]

We all know a form that’s mid💀💀💀💀

[@gtothem1850]

What did you expect? Dragon Ball fans don't even watch the show to make their arguments, and you expect them to wait and watch the video so to counter argument??

[@VivPlayzX777]

Bruh Ssj 3 isn't the fault it could have defeated Fat Buu but Goku did stupidity

[@kevinchan1429]

This video was sponsored by Vegeta

[@Clusterking47]

THE PRINCE OF ALL SAYANS

[@dybu1406]

Xd

[@aloneking1995]

With Bulma's money xD

[@abdullahabbasi1588]

😂😂😂😂

[@ayushdutta1688]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@Micerog]

“Eventually they would get betrayed and trapped in the time chamber” Heh… I understood that reference.

[@dankerbell]

carthu's a db tuber, he's probably felt the temptation of making one of those videos before

[@Thesemonkeys]

@@dankerbellthose videos are dumb anyways, they’re all just unoriginal

[@Micerog]

@@dankerbell I mean he did…

[@diamonshade7484]

​@@Micerogwhere

[@Micerog]

@@diamonshade7484 on his channel, he uploaded it on June 18th 2022

[@jeremiahgreen5632]

It's really irritating that no one uses ssj3 right. It's supposed to be used to finish a fight quickly, not to draw it out until stamina issues kick in. Either this, or no one wants to spend the time needed to master it.

[@iceyspicey4802]

You're talking like you can go ssj3

[@jacksonjack7838]

So its never ever been used right, even by its creator in its debut.

[@rod_sunrise8907]

​​@@iceyspicey4802 They can dude. Goten and trunks fused specifically to use their KZbin account.

[@Rem694u2]

@@jacksonjack7838 Nope, he completely missed the logic of the form's pro's and con's and attached energy limit to stay in the land of the living in it's debut. lol

[@Entei9000]

Gotenks may have fooled around against Super Buu but I don't think he was strong enough to finish him off with it anyway. As for Goku vs Kid Buu he was trying to end it fast but just couldn't because Buu was regenerating too fast.

[@thelightseeker94]

Goku's choice to prevent Gohan from saving Videl when she was getting stomped by Spopavich was his worst character moment in the series.

[@Lifelight_]

@@InabaPrism Which matters much more than that girl's life!

[@Mecha-Gamer-w3y]

@@Lifelight_ Ehh they have dragon balls,and second Goku would have saved Videl if they weren't in the tournament

[@thelightseeker94]

@@Lifelight_ They joke about it in abridged but in canon goku was trying to keep everybody from using power because their ki was being used to revive majin buu. But Goku could kill spopavich in 1 hit so why not do it? That's why it's so bad.

[@Chorongy-]

The meme tho

[@RedMoonLoop]

​@@thelightseeker94 they needed to follow spopovich to find babidi

[@nOT_sURE08]

I always felt like Ss3 (and the buu arc as a whole) was toriyama having a laugh. Like he was parodying his own work.

[@thelightseeker94]

@@nOT_sURE08 Toriyama wanted to end the story after Namek. But the series was so succesful. He was forced to do the Cell Saga. The fact he tried to kill Goku for good there was proof he was done. But again money made it go further into Buu and the poor writing was Toriyama being tired of his own work.

[@AzaanPlayzTV]

@@thelightseeker94 fr tori was just done with dragon ball Z

[@BassLiberators]

@@thelightseeker94 That's not true, Toriyama never wanted to end the manga until the end of the Buu saga. I believe this channel even covers it

[@ashuraomega1000]

Ssj3 could've worked from a story perspective if it was built up. Like there's never a point in the Buu arc where Vegeta or any of the other characters think Goku is lying about his true power, there's never a point where the audience is led to believe that Goku is hiding something up his sleeve, there's not even a point where Goku alludes to using something he didn't want anyone else to know about. Having Goku be forced to reveal ssj3 to everyone when Buu attacks would have helped the form's significance.

[@Ripperr_]

imagine if piccolo just had some small doubt that goku is telling the truth. it couldve fixed so many problems

[@Lynxic]

Goten and Trunks think Goku is lying and is weak at this point in the story since they're upset that he didn't beat Boo right away and save Gohan and Vegeta. It feels more like the point of the form was to be a plot device to show the boys that Goku actually is the strongest rather than to be as story significant as SSJ1 and SSJ2.

[@sethrod13]

​@Lynxic that and they never knew goku before that day so they were underestimating him

[@giangargo669]

in the anime vegeta tells goku he has felt a greater power from him when defeating yakon by increasing his ki, i think that could be forshadowing a little

[@diamonshade7484]

​@@Ripperr_or vegeta 😂

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

Missed opportunity for goten and trunks not to perfect it and use it as their main form in super. Missed opportunity 😞

[@NotJohnBoyzZ]

Toriyama disliked drawing all that hair. So he made it to where it “uses up too much energy” and SSG + above power creeps it (less hair to draw too)

[@MountainMemelord]

Goten should get Super Saiyan Blue Full Power, (which would look similarly to Super Saiyan Rose Full Power from Heroes, but maybe swapping the tail for eyebrows) and Trunks should get Blue Evolution 3.

[@VanillaFudge-r8y]

@@MountainMemelord blue Evolution 3 is made-up art. Personally i would Love it goten would get some spot light besides trunks. From time to time.

[@undisclosedidentity9893]

Half Saiyans have higher potential than Full Blodded Saiyans So Goten mastering SSJ3 shouldn’t be much if an issue. He could even learn SSJB in a day

[@MonkeBrain07]

Toyotarou would HATE drawing this form

[@chefinabottle]

With all the bullshit they like to pull, I honestly wouldn't have minded too much if he somehow managed to stableizde the form in BoG/Super. The form is undeniably trash in terms of usability, but there is something about it that does get me hyped up when he screams and the hair starts growing. Especially with how rarely he uses it. "Oh shit, he decided to pull this out?"

[@spiritualMir]

Bro the video not even out yet 😭😭

[@jabradococonutfrosting9513]

​@@spiritualMirPower of Membership!

[@Xzilesenju]

I really like that take bro🤔

[@dankerbell]

he did which is why he's chilling in the form when he gets ready to fight beerus but during the tournament he has no energy after eating his own spirit bomb and jiren beating his butt so he can't maintain it

[@Sonicionx]

@@dankerbellmakes sense

[@danieldorvil7683]

Been waiting for this since the tease you did with TSO. I always to love to see my favorite KZbinrs collab

[@DeonBatchelor1754]

Fr

[@RysGameZ]

Even though Super Saiyan 3 is my favorite transformation (Unless Kaioken was considered a transformation then that would be my fav.). I really like all your points here. I completely understand why you don't like Super Saiyan 3 and it doesn't really seem to be out of hate or anything. It’s more or less you wanting it to be better than what it was before.

[@dankerbell]

i see kaio-ken as a technique, so blue kaio-ken is also not a separate form (mui is a form goku's body created to use the technique more effectively so that's different)

[@bigbabado8296]

A DB fan with a good explanation for his points, great video

[@luckytia9076]

To me SSJ3 always seemed like a super saiyan "glitch", a transformation which, unlike the 2 (technically 5) previous ones has a flaw that cannot be fixed in any way, that be the enormous energy drain (read a comment once that said how the transformation was like a punctured balloon where no matter how much air you blow into it it can't stay inflated and i think it sums it up perfectly). It seems as if Goku trained SO MUCH in the afterlife that the genetic code of the Saiyans forced the transformation, which should not and could not exist if Goku stayed alive while he developed it, this would justify both the huge flaws of the form and the sole exclusivity of the aforementioned to Goku (I don't count Gotenks because being a fusion it cannot be examined with the same criteria in my opinion) Still remains a dope ass looking form

[@ScrabusZ]

What if he tried to contain the amount of Ki that was flowing out of his body (Like putting tape on the balloon) then when he wants to release all that energy, he releases the ki in the form of a powerful attack that will defeat the opponent (taking the tape off the balloon)?

[@haydenbrown2076]

I find this theory very interesting and cool my take is more that ssj3 is the ssj2 user drawing out all the oozaru potential which super charges the form but it can(but still hasn’t) be mastered to control the energy like ssj4 hence why originally the form had a tail and shorter crazier hair based off its origin in ssj2 and oozaru to me ssj3 isn’t a glitch it’s more of a next evolution of ssj and oozaru

[@ScrabusZ]

@@haydenbrown2076 It makes sense

[@gokentopower4481]

This theory is further proved by the fact Goku could only maintain the form while dead, being alive just straight up didn't work as he had working organs and needed ki, needed stamina and everything else, a form he achieved while DEAD had much worse drawbacks than he expected Which also makes sense why Gotenks is the only other user of SSJ3, Gotenks is a fusion of two Saiyans, he can maintain the pressure because it's literally double

[@diamonshade7484]

Ssb had the same issue

[@treesnip5667]

I think one of the bigger issues with Super Saiyan 3 is that it seems really hard to draw. Out of all of the forms in Dragon Ball SSJ3 is the form I've seen drawn poorly the most.

[@dankerbell]

this is the real reason

[@CSwizzleDizzle]

Super Saiyan 3 is an animator's worst nightmare, especially when working on a weekly tv series with bad management and crunch time.

[@wifine1951]

Same reason why cell has never been mentioned

[@aeronjohntolosa1517]

This is the main reason the form only showed up once in the Tournament of Power

[@spiderverse7361]

It made me sad that Vegeta never had Super Saiyan 3 in canon and Goku not using it against Jiren.

[@Atrain204]

Aaaaaaaannnd subscribed. Great video! As much as I love the design, I imagine it was a nightmare for the animators and Toriyama so that led to SS3s limited appearances. The movies made it look amazing. The form being a Gotenks exclusive is brilliant. However, I wonder how that would have changed the final battle with Kid Boo

[@Meedgarza]

0:25 i agree.

[@Meedgarza]

I like it by that

[@AhmedHussain-ju6xd]

It might be mid, but the sheer hype I felt when goku whipped it out vs buu with falconers score was just *chefs kiss*

[@luhhburg]

gang what 😭

[@9xFalse]

you have the same last name as me

[@SuperDeleto]

​@@luhhburg"When Goku whipped it out" bro was NOT watching the right dragon ball Z.

[@luhhburg]

@@SuperDeleto fr lmao 😭

[@alejandroo.2358]

"when goku whipped it out" pause

[@UnwantedGhost1-anz25]

There's absolutely no way that this would be perceived as kicking the hornet's nest and provoke a mob after the premiere.

[@vicentegeonix]

Gotta make people angry to get daamn views brother.

[@TH3C001]

Premiere?

[@bizarrion]

Raiyuden gonna be so mad at you for this video lol

[@andrewbirch585]

fr 😂

[@arrownoir]

01:19 His eyes even changed.

[@abnormal_gamer3]

IMO Carthu’s dojo, Salad saiyan & Smugstick is top 3 greatest DB youtubers.

[@TramaneCardellEchols]

If cell couldn’t regenerate, he was toast when Goku used that instant transmission Kamehameha!!

[@digitaladventurer2142]

Yeah Vegeta actually would have won it with his Final Flash. Even though Cell survived missing half his upper body really would have sealed his loss

[@zetset8098]

If goku couldn't kamehameha, he was toast by everyone.... If Tien would be Angel he would beat Beerus. 🤡

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@digitaladventurer2142he would have lost to 16 and the others if he couldn't regenerate his tail

[@diamonshade7484]

​@@digitaladventurer2142Piccolo also ripped out his tail so cell could have been jumped

[@diamonshade7484]

​@@ojpickle5923he would have received a jjk jumping especially since he 3rd partied the fight

[@Jvz-t5e]

I feel like this is more of a “Why Goku doesn’t make sense in the buu saga” rather than “why ssj3 kinda sucks”

[@najadamu2724]

SS3 is a big part of that, though.

[@brendansoucy2220]

@@najadamu2724 as Carthu himself says, a lot of the weirdness of SSJ3 is Goku Weirdness, because its presence acts as major character assassination, tho it does also apply the other way around

[@Luh_katkat]

Ssj 3 just sucks lol

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@najadamu2724 doesn’t change that Goku is the main issue, and should be addressed as such.

[@nezu-4007]

@@Luh_katkat🤓

[@InfiniteDimensions-gy7gv]

Another intresting way to look at ssj3 is via mark’s Buu saga review. He basically says that Akira’s writing style of extreme shock and surprise to drive the plot forward came back to bite him in the Buu saga, making it feel less clever and interesting, and a bit more contrived. Basically, ssj3 is an example of that, and any other problem related to it could just be him trying to explain the problems that would arise with its introduction, which end of making it look worse. It’s less character assassination and more Toriyama getting too ahead of himself and writing himself into a brick wall.

[@najadamu2724]

I'd say it's still character assassination, but as a side-effect of its existence. Because it's a retcon that just unnecessarily makes Goku look more cocky, selfish, and dishonest than he was intended to be.

[@InfiniteDimensions-gy7gv]

Pretty much.

[@richborn6700]

Mark is a pretentious hack

[@yumin_pluto558]

@@najadamu2724 to refute both of you at the same time: Goku at the point where he could have shown off SSJ3 before was trying to assuage Vegeta’s pride, and lead him back to them, showing off SSJ3 may have just exacerbated that issue. After that he’s trying to train Goten and Trunks, he doesn’t need to transform to train them. While he could have immediately faced Buu, his personal arc in the Buu arc was that he was tired of saving Earth, he wanted a successor. He wanted the same with the Cell arc. The end of that is that Satan in the end saves the planet and he gains a successor in Uub.

[@kosh974]

​@@yumin_pluto558goku doesn't want Uub as a successor. He just wants to fight another strong guy. Vegeta says as much in the last chapter.

[@haydes1285]

I think it could potentially be redeemed in the future, like whis using it as a basis to help goku control his UI forms, that learning to control the drain of 3 first could be translated into learning to better control the same from UI, but as it is, it really has no place now as anything other than fan service (I’m far from up to date on manga, so sorry if these are already non-issues)

[@RyomenSukuna259]

Don't let Raiyuden see this💀💀

[@ZephyrusBlack]

I was just about to say that

[@coltchan7380]

Goku only used SSj3 four times in Super.

[@Glaceon-I4C7E1]

Is that counting the time he used it on Merus in the Morro arc?

[@coltchan7380]

@@Glaceon-I4C7E1 no

[@taecampus]

In the anime: Against Beerus, against future Trunks, that time when he and Krillin went to go train in that forest against past villains, and against Caulifla and Kale I believe. If we add the manga: Against Toppo, against 17, and against Merus I think 🤔

[@SlickJarl.]

And vs Moro goons, he dropped into it accidentally

[@taecampus]

@@SlickJarl. I think I remember that! Good eye 👍

[@taecampus]

8:59 "Betrayed and trapped in the time chamber," huh? Nice one 😅😂

[@SuperDeleto]

Good points as always, Carthu. Also SSJ3 being a "Gotenks exclusive form" is actually not a bad idea...too bad Gotenks as a character is almost just as underutilized as SSJ3 in general...

[@Gensolink]

fusion in general feels pretty useless overall as far as canon material goes. Like i'm pretty sure the only canon fusion W was against freaking Super Broly

[@ninjanate5018]

@@Gensolinkdon’t forget Vegito against Super Buu

[@SuperDeleto]

@@ninjanate5018 I'd consider something like that an "unfinished match" or something like that. (The vegito fan in me want to be bias so badly...but I won't listen).

[@SuperDeleto]

@@Gensolink Yeah. It's like all they know how to is "have the fusion show up, talk shit, do something cool, and lose" over and over again. Even in some non-canon material, it happens over and over again (especially with my boi Vegito. 😭 Though I've noticed not even Gogeta can escape this treatment sometimes).

[@Gaiou0331]

YEAH! I have also felt annoyed at the way they kept making the fusions show up just to not let them finish what they were called for even though THEY COULD HAVE. Like do something else, damn.

[@ThePlushLeauge]

can you make a vid were you rewrite dragon ball keeping all core stuff in the show but fixing anything you thought weird or fixing plot holes

[@huklo6331]

Nah he would f it up

[@bobzillagorilla]

I disagree. Ssj3 narratively portrays super Saiyan in general has reached its limit, Goku didn't use it against Vegeta because he knew it would make his time on earth run dry quicker and only pulled it out against buu to stall. Goku didn't want to just beat Buu he wanted to find the successor to himself (because he's dead and can't be relied on to save the earth). Goku only finds out about the stamina drain effects of it after he becomes alive again because being dead he had unlimited stamina so it wasn't an issue. The conclusion of the arc basically teaches the audience and Goku that the hardest battles need to be fought together and can't be won alone via the spirit bomb and vegita and Hercule helping. Ssj3 specifically makes the arc work imo.

[@bobzillagorilla]

Ssj3 is my favorite transformation for the same reasons I like pre timeskip Luffy's gears, they're powerful but come with a drawback or a side effect (why I like kaioken aswell). It would be dumb if all the sudden Goku got past the drawbacks of the form and could use it effortlessly it would just make it the same as the other 2 but just looks different. Imo ssj blue Is wayyy more boring and overrated. Stylistically its just a hair color change and doesn't do anything narratively other than just show that oh they trained and are stronger than regular ssj God but in doing that just makes ssj god completely irrelevant. I liked in battle of the gods that after the god ritual ran out Goku didn't notice and was still fighting at a higher strength despite only being ssj1 but that was completely thrown out as a concept in favor of oh his hair is blue now and he's stronger. Idk it's lame and ssj3 the goat

[@Anonymice]

i really don't think it's overrated. it gets shat on all the time after its first appearance in canon with ridiculous "stamina limits" and never even defeated anybody. plus, like you said, it makes goku seem worse than he is. ss3 is emblematic of toriyama's resentment of goku's heroics. reminder: this is the goku that when told by piccolo that gohan hates fighting and just wants goku to save him, forsakes the idea of a fair fight and tries to heal up so they can gang up on cell and finish the fight permanently. goku legitimately thought gohan would want this and that achieving this victory on his own would be good for gohan.

[@dankerbell]

he meant overrated by fans which is absolutely true, people love posting shots of it in the movies then taking out of context shots from the early episodes of super and going "we used to be a real society what happened" and people will always come to its defence like you're doing right now whenever someone brings up it being useless and ugly

[@romart03]

@@dankerbell people liking it despite its flaws doesnt make it overrated, also it may be useless but definitely not ugly, its one of the most majestic forms in dragon ball

[@rift3487]

@@romart03idk man it always looked goofy to me. The long hair just felt way too over the top and I know it’s dragonball but like even then it just felt a bit too much for me

[@EndoScorpion]

@@rift3487 Thats the exact word I used in my comment. "Goofy". It's one of the ugliest forms in all DB. I get everyone had different tastes but this is just... it just looks to dumb and silly and an R word I'm probably not allowed to say.

[@vicentegeonix]

​@@EndoScorpionwell you have bad taste but the good thing Is that is only your opinion.

[@StardustBlazer]

Oh boy.. This is definitely going to cause a dilemma. Why do I feel like the finger is going to be pointed at SS3 when that form gets almost as much slander as Blue? I'm surprised SS4 isn't on there with how butthurt fans easily get when it comes to any criticism to the form. 🤔

[@therealguyfr]

Fr. I called ss4 overrated in a poll, in my opinion it is, and I got raided by a bunch of nostalgia meat riders acting like 9 year olds.

[@StardustBlazer]

@@therealguyfr You'd be surprised at the other 2 or 3.

[@ProjektTaku]

@@therealguyfr they just like it because it was pretty much the only new form in GT and looked kinda unique and cool.

[@nerdy_boy2785]

@@therealguyfrThe problem is people associate something being overrated as bad which is not the case. Something can be overrated and good, people just look for any reason to argue. But you are right ss4 is overrated.

[@Wizofmincraft]

@@nerdy_boy2785 fr people hear overrated and think it means something is bad… some ppl need a dictionary on hand

[@RetroMagnus761]

I've always seen Goku not beating Buu with ssj3 as an enforcement of the fact that Buu couldn't be beaten with pure power and that it took teamwork in order to finish him off. It makes sense when you think about it.

[@riqopowpow]

@@RetroMagnus761 it makes sense when you think, something this guy doesn't do often.

[@GabrielMartins-wr5pk]

makes sense but they didnt make any effort to tell that,makes me believe they didnt have that in mind

[@dreemurrprince]

Except its made clear by goku not once but twice that SSJ3 goku COULD have beaten fat buu, which just makes it “man goku’s stupid.”

[@UninterestingPerson-to3jo]

​@@dreemurrprinceand then they slap this idea in the face as Goku couldn't beat Kid Buu,now imagine trying to beat a dumber super Buu (fat Buu initially) Goku would get bodied.

[@dreemurrprince]

@@UninterestingPerson-to3jo well thats sort of different. Dead Goku could beat fat buu, and maybe even kid buu (heavy debatable but possible) but alive goku can’t. This is explained as SS3 being easier to use with a dead body. unless im misunderstanding your reply in which case im being a dumbass so correct me

[@RealYoHanns]

Raiyuden is coming after you 💀💀💀

[@crimson_1234]

carthu you should do “what is goku landed on brolys planet?” i think it would be pretty interesting

[@CarthusDojo]

he'd die to the monsters on vampa or be killed by paragus. i made a short about it awhile back

[@crimson_1234]

@@CarthusDojo oh well at least you replied

[@matti.8465]

I don't understand the decision of introducing a new transformation, hyping it up, then making it useless in-universe. You could say the same about the Super Saiyan grades, but those were always supposed to suck. SJJ3 is supposed to be cool yet it isn't.

[@nerdy_boy2785]

Yeah dragon ball is notorious for doing that lol 😂

[@MustacheDLuffy]

I think it was cool. Dragon ball super just made it lame

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@MustacheDLuffy it was always lame. It’s basically the Kaioken of Ssj forms: Pointless in the grand scheme of things.

[@ANotSoPopularMan]

This thumbnail is making me start to wild out bro. Ssj and Ssjg thumb downing is so odd.

[@Micerog]

They’re the best saiyan transformations

[@SuperDeleto]

​@@MicerogGod is a good form, but It's not even top 3.

[@Micerog]

@@SuperDeleto it’s literally n.2 saiyan form after normal super saiyan, it has a huge story behind it, it is a gate to a whole new world of power, and most of all it’s the form that revived dragon ball, and to many fans, it’s the first form they actually watched being obtained. And if you are about to say ssj4… just don’t… other than a kinda cool design it has nothing.

[@Wizofmincraft]

@@SuperDeleto It’s most definitely top 3 😂

[@SuperDeleto]

@@Micerog The lore behind the form is great (though slightly confusing at times), and personally, I like it's design (especially the red, flame-like Aura). But the only reason I don't wanna put this form any higher than 4 is due to how poorly handled it was after BoG (mainly the anime. Manga SSG is actually pretty good). Another thing I don't like about the form is it's name. If it were called "saiyan god" instead, I think that'd make more sense considering the form still keeps Base Goku's hairstyle.

[@anormalguy8567]

Am i tweaking or was the thumbnail 2 gokus pointing at SS3 goku instead of vegeta and goku pointing at gotenks just 2 minutes ago??

[@dankerbell]

it still is in his community post, sometimes youtubers change thumbnails because it helps with the algorithm but i also heard there's a system to upload multiple thumbnails so different people get different ones to help with attracting viewers

[@deandrulias5812]

Super Sayin 3 is meaningful to me because its the first form that really captured Goku's Angelic personality he had throughout all of DB and DBZ into a Power Up form. He usually had his halo up alot of the time in SSj3. As a power up its an energy burner 1 shot K.O. form in IMO; w/o an other world body.

[@TheImmortalBloodwolf]

From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Goku didn't realize that super Saiyan 3 had those downsides at the time because they weren't present when he was both DEAD and IN OTHER WORD aka the after life... A dead Saiyan spirit in the realm where such Spirits are supposed to exist doesn't have any downsides to Super Saiyan 3, the downsides only started when Goku returned to earth, during which he had to comply with the laws of physics as they exist in the realm of the living... Goku had zero idea his super Saiyan 3 form even HAD downsides because he developed it in other world after he died. This showed that Goku had been keeping up his training after he died, he just forgot about a few things that he hadn't encountered in a while.... "Typical kakarot" completely in character for him to make such a mistake...

[@H4L0GUY117]

4:51 carthu i'm like 99% sure you've mentioned somewhere that super saiyan 3 has the stamina drain when goku used it because when he got the form in the afterlife he didn't know it was so draining because, well he was dead...

[@TheJstee]

Some people here don't know the difference between hating a form and overrating a form

[@rollsreus3978]

THATS IT!! IVE HEARD ENOUGH RELEASE THE RAIYUDEN

[@HamidSubahi]

Danm bro

[@creativename_]

Why do i feel like Carthu and TotallyNotMark are literally the only people who understand this franchise

[@bluntsummary1666]

Lol cause unlike Dragon-ball Z "fans" they actually read and watch the source material instead of fan theories and out of context shorts.

[@Dbz_4_Life]

That’s exactly how I felt. Tbh never was a fan of ssj3. I love the look but it hardly used and Gonu never mastered it. People say ssj3 was made irrelevant in super but it wasn’t really relevant in z either

[@FirstNameLastName-gq4tb]

Crazy how only Cumber has done the form justice by actually mastering it. And he isn’t even canon. The way goku’s ssj3 hair didn’t move one bit when he brought it out in the TOP, you can tell they wrote it to be shafted because they didn’t want to draw and animate the hair. Hopefully gotenks (or goten and trunks individually) can master it if the animators find a way to draw it more easily or if they just get over it lol. And ngl ssjg got shafted too

[@FirstNameLastName-gq4tb]

Also, they’re of course making it seem like caulifla will do ssj3 justice which would be nice. Although a big oversight is that ssj3 channels the oozaru’s power (which most people tend to forget) and universe 6 saiyans biologically don’t have anything to do with the great ape. But whatever

[@Wizofmincraft]

@@FirstNameLastName-gq4tb Are you sure it channels the oozaru’s power? Pretty sure it was just a visual spectacle more than anything just like how goku going mui was

[@FirstNameLastName-gq4tb]

@@Wizofmincraft yeah, goku’s and gotenks’ voices become rougher when in ssj3 and the loss of the eyebrows is to make them look more like the great ape. The original design of ssj3 even shows the tail grow back (which I wish happened), on top of the long hair and no eyebrows

[@dankerbell]

@@Wizofmincraft there's no confirmation of it in canon that's for sure, everything he's said sounds a little speculative

[@diamonshade7484]

​facts, all that scream and he didn't regrow his tail seems like a missed opportunity

[@Demonetizedat3am]

Bro dropping slander on my birthday 😭

[@ElPeloXD]

happy birthday!!

[@VanillaFudge-r8y]

🎉🎉🎉

[@Dragongamer143-x]

🎉🎉🎉

[@Lesongoku]

happy birthday (you will receive a carthu video as a present)

[@BrawlStarsAndDragonBall]

Happy birthday!

[@KayaEmpire]

0:03 "don't leave an angry comment or a death threat" 😂💀

[@lordgameboy1303]

“YET-“

[@MartinMcKeown-yt3qs]

Hey Carthu I’m guessing you know about Sparkling Zero and the what if goku went super saiyan in the saiyan saga what’s your thoughts on it since you did that already

[@Kirbysansandbootlegsansshow]

2:35 okay now i get what whis mean by "your weakness is your arrogance"

[@theemeraldninja5038]

Therapist: "Goku with a widow's peak isn't real. He can't hurt you." Goku with a widow's peak: 0:12

[@catlord2395]

Back after watching, I agree tbh. Ssj3 should have TOTALLY been a gotenks exclusive, as in its definitely accessible by other characters like goku and vegeta, they just don’t use it, seeing its major flaws and issues and deciding to not even waste their time on it, moving on to their more powerfull, and sometimes even more efficient, SSGod forms, while goten and trunks use ssj3 as a kind of crutch until they can get stronger on their own.

[@BrawlStarsAndDragonBall]

Super Saiyan 3 is not worst, it's the least best

[@dankerbell]

honestly good way of putting it because even if it's my least favourite form, i do love the transformation scenes a lot

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

So it’s the worst. Nice try tho.

[@noobsysys]

whats the worst in your opinion?? mine is ssb

[@noreenfatima6163]

​@@noobsysysBeast

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

It’s not the least best. That would imply it’s good. It’s not. However, yes, it’s not the worst. Super Saiyan blue is, but you’re coping with this word play tbh.

[@hectorquinonez2215]

I like the idea of ssj3 being a gotenks exclusive form

[@maththrive]

I understand that the Goku SS3 fight with Buu at its introduction wasn’t supposed to be a real battle but man, I felt like the Cell Saga all the way up to the Buu saga just had some weak choreography. It’s just big move after big move. Feet to the face of android 19, absorbing Picollo’s arm, punching android 17 where you can see his back, Gohan doing a few punches on Cell, then a Ki struggle, and now a cool transformation by Goku only to Yo-yo the antagonist… Like what does SS3 Goku do other than hit harder and get tired quickly.

[@72SinSae]

LMAO. the betrayed and trapped in the time chamber really killed me XD

[@EdgyTheHedgy891]

That's why I really like manga version of super saiyan blue Hear me out Super saiyan blue in the dbs manga is super saiyan 3 done right They introduce this really powerful but very impractical form, that drains to much stamina and drops it's power to fast So Goku and Vegeta try to come up with a way around this weakness by using super saiyan god and switching blue on and off during attacks And then goku comes up with a better permanent solution by mastering super saiyan blue and releasing the form's full potential And only after that we were introduced to a step forward with blue kaioken and blue evolution

[@NoName......]

He never used ssbk in the manga did he?

[@EdgyTheHedgy891]

@@NoName...... Weeeeell he sorta did During the tournament of power he does use something like that He calls it kaioken blue (maybe I misremember the name, but there definitely was kaioken in it) but there is no red and blue aura like in the anime

[@farizr.batarai8271]

​@@NoName......he used a similar principal but yeah they should have just have him use ssbkk

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@EdgyTheHedgy891 he doesn’t use Kaioken blue in the manga. He just powers up and Krillin says it’s similar to the Kaioken, but it’s not the actual Kaioken. Also, SSB in the manga makes no sense. The form is supposed to be about perfect Ki control. Giving it a stamina problem is nonsensical. Idk why they even did that. Super Saiyan blue is just a poorly written and inconsistent transformation no matter which continuity.

[@MinhLe19303]

@@farizr.batarai8271 It is Kaioken Blue. The manga guide and official website confirmed this. The manga version portrayed Kaioken more of a common principle of increase strength and speed from the user's reserve at the cost of stamina and hurting the user's body, unlike the anime where it was more of a specific technique.

[@Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz1024]

It can't be overrated if it's overhated

[@ultrainstinctgokuhope7442]

No, idk about that, super saiyan blue overcome that of hated

[@dankerbell]

it's not overhated because people like you immediately jump to its defence when someone suggests that good transformation scenes don't make a good form, it should be hated but it isn't

[@ultrainstinctgokuhope7442]

@dankerbell Super saiyan blue, got hated because it overshadow super saiyan god, broke powerscale, lose so much, Super saiyan 3, lose once didn't beat main villain, have movie that have sick line and badass look and was loved and gt show how powerful it is

[@diogomartins9201]

Loved the video, and agree with everything! In Super, when Trunks and Goku spared and he used SSJ3, i expected Trunks to learn that form, to help the fight against Zamasu instead of SS Rage. With a few small changes to the story, we could have had more developement for SS3 instead of the dumb and unexplainable SS Rage.

[@tairenk.3996]

Hey, that Faulconer SSJ3 theme still slaps though.

[@janhamo8652]

Raiyuden crying watching this video.

[@Multiversal2010]

I personally like the form, for some reason, but it is so bad 💀 the fact that he couldn’t even beat any of the buu forms with it, (except for fat buu cause he didn’t want too.) makes it seem on par with Ssj 2. It was a very random idea, cause before he said he was going all out against Vegeta, but NOPE! He Has SSJ 3 Now! It would have been better if it didn’t exist, even though I like it.

[@gojirarex5138]

I mean there's an obvious reason why you like it. It looks cool.

[@nerdy_boy2785]

Like the guy said above me, you can like a form for how it looks and not how it performs.

[@SonicTheDutchHedgehog]

I absolutely agree with the Gotenks thing, if they were to unlock ssj3 instead of goku, it would just be a better fit and it doesn't ruin goku as a character, then again most of the buu saga was pretty messed up, but i still like it lol.

[@Atrakin-i7l]

Is it cool: yes Does it make sense narratively: no Will I still Iike ssj3: ABSOLUTELY

[@ImeanWhoElse]

I don't disagree with his criticisms, but I also walk away from this vid thinking Carthu believes the Buu saga and Goku, at this time, are 🗑️. That's the problem with A LOT of this type coverage. Some people don't care about the narrative flaws that were pointed out. Some people think the form looks dope. Some thought Goku shaking the planet and going from Ozaru to a baby was dope😂 Some thought the theme music slapped. Some thought Sean Schemmel screaming his lungs out for 10 minutes was hype 😂 For A LOT of DB fans, it jus ain't that deep. Sometimes Rule of Cool wins the day. RIP Toriyama. Even when he missed, he hit. SSJ3 was a prime example. That ridiculous form had us going crazy when it happened.

[@user-tg5yh4cq1z]

The anime was definitely firing on all cylinders when Goku went SSJ3. The Dragon Ball anime's production was at its peak during the Buu arc. Can't say the same for the manga.

[@StardustBlazer]

I called it. Now, I need one about SS4 all things considered with what you've explained. Cause it falls in a similar scenario.

[@chuviis3508]

It's crazy how Toei could come something incredible like SSJ4 and they FUMBLE it in the next arcs after the baby arc, it's ridiculous 💀

[@Randomergoesbrrrr]

i mean ss4 is more like blue if it had build up since it quickly becomes the form goku uses when the weakest ennemy appears, like blue

[@hbshadow8981]

@@Randomergoesbrrrrsaying its used against the weakest enemy is kinda a stretch considering GT scaling post baby arc where every villain is pretty much stronger that his base-ssj3 with a few exceptions like oceanus or haze shenron where he mainly fought in his base

[@dankerbell]

trueee, ssj4 gets just as glazed if not more so because of the way it looks and the fact that gt fans really hate super so whenever someone mentions it they have to mention how much better ssj4 is than every single form in all of super

[@Who4reU]

​@@dankerbell GT fans are the masters of whataboutism

[@ultramanraze3521]

Overrated more like Overhated😭

[@tinashejk]

fr

[@BurrtoDaApe]

For me SS3 came out of nowhere and was like:"I'm here. Now get used to it."

[@Randomergoesbrrrr]

not really, SS3 is the kid that almost never comes to class SS blue is like what you said

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​@@Randomergoesbrrrr fair enough

[@MajinUltraEgo]

​@@RandomergoesbrrrrSS3 is still exactly what he said, don't be biased just because you are mad at SSB 🤣

[@Riyokintyu]

The biggest reason that it didn’t become a more used form is that it is harder to draw and animate.

[@thunderhog45]

I love the SSJ3 transformation so much visually and even his voice. Him turning SS3 was iconic. I agree with your points and wish the form had any sort of use

[@Bengt2509]

challenge for other commenters name one good thing about ssj3 outside of the z movies and its first ever appearance

[@theringmaster6434]

I could name a few things: 1. Awesome design 2. Gave us an awesome fight against Kid Buu 3. Gave us a great fight between Gotenks and Super Buu (and would’ve beaten Buu if it weren’t for Gotenks cockiness) 4. Was able to open a portal between realities (which was groundbreaking at the time) 5. The whole “issue” of Draining stamina has basically been fixed so technically Goku could use it and should use it more often when playing around with a weaker enemy (but doesn’t for some reason ‘cause they pretty much forget about it) 6. Don’t forget those gorgeous long locks And those are just a few things, I could mention more, but I think I’ve proven my point.

[@yan_dj]

The fact that you're even commenting this further shows that SSJ3 is UNDERRATED not overrated

[@Bobby-lo3kj]

​@theringmaster6434 so it's just cool? Cool

[@Bobby-lo3kj]

​@yan_dj this is the top 3 forms for most ppl who watch db based of pure coolness and movie feats it's definitely overrated

[@dasherdude101]

If ss3 didn't drag things out and ended it then there is no Vegito

[@TheMonkeKing777]

Dam Now SS3 Gotenks Is In The Thumbnail Instead of SS3 Goku

[@fatatatatau364]

carthu took that opinion a little too personal

[@King_Sussy]

The title is wrong because Super Saiyan 3 is a form in Dragon Ball Z, not Dragon Ball

[@CarthusDojo]

Dragon Ball is the franchise name but also "Dragon Ball Z" is an anime thing. The original manga is just called Dragon Ball from Goku meeting Bulma to Goku leaving with Uub. Some localizations of the manga split the two but it's not like that originally.

[@King_Sussy]

@@CarthusDojo I keep forgetting the manga is "Dragon Ball" and not "Dragon Ball Z", my bad Also, Super Saiyan 3 is still my favourite form no matter what, it's the coolest looking form that isn't Super Saiyan 4

[@BeyBattleXx5925]

0:13 rocking that McDonalds hairline

[@hamzatahir2610]

0:33 pause and look

[@Dazencustomer]

What am I looking at?

[@omarkazzaz1540]

​@@Dazencustomerhis butt

[@Therealbronzegamer]

😂

[@Mist]

SSJ3 being a form only Gotenks can achieve also makes sense considering how much stronger fusion should be than Goku but also it being the strongest Super saiyan form canonically can also be a reason as of why it's unstable

[@EndoScorpion]

Agree with everything in the video, except one thing: SSJ3 is UGLY AF! It's one of the worst looking forms in all Dragon Ball, alongside the goofy and bland-looking Beast Gohan. I dont' get why the hair grows so long, never before in a SSJ transformation has hair grow, just stood up more. Beast shares this growth issue and it just looks silly. Like a really bad cosplay. And wtf is with the lack of eyebrows? It doesn't make him look more "beastly" or "raw", it just makes him look dumb. The fact it doesn't achieve anything either, and has glaringly obvious drawbacks akin to the bulky grade-3 Trunks tried to use against Cell.... I just really don't understand (nor care to, before people try to explain it) why people think it's good in any way. The Cell saga had some mirroring between timelines (like Gohan losing the use of his left arm, Goku dying, Cell killing Trunks - all happening across timelines). Even the Buu saga had similar "nods" to previous events like the fights on Babidii's ship (the whole x10 gravity thing and Vegeta winning being a nod to the Saiyan saga; Goku using SSJ to defeat his opponent was the only way he was able to win against Frieza; and Gohan's inexperience leading to the fights between Cell and Dabura dragging on long than needed, leading to Vegeta getting involved and making things worse). So... it would make sense for this timeline's Trunks to use the SSJ3 form as a nod to Future Trunks trying, and failing, to use Grade 3.

[@eclipseslayer98]

One more thing that would improve your SSJ3 use idea, is that if SSJ simpy required far more training to use than the other forms. That would make Gotenk's SSJ3 kinda like a sunk cost fallacy where nobody else wants to use it since it requires so much training, but Gotenks doesn't want to stop training and improving it because he's already so invested in it to the point where it does become good. It would keep it as a form mostly for him, while also making it useful.

[@tykofgin]

Goku at the start of the arc: being equally strong as majin vegeta ssj2 End of the arc: fighting pure majin buu in ssj2 and being in a whole different league

[@epicDiggs]

I'm not gonna lie, I was gonna leave a big comment about how the form was perfect for Gotenks

[@DarienGyan]

Ssj3 is soo perfect for Gotenks

[@TheWaffle64]

"This thing isn't actually that cool" *Literally the coolest thing ever*

[@MichaelAChristian1]

WHAT IS GOKU DOING!!!!

[@draconicanimations2381]

what about ssj2

[@VanillaFudge-r8y]

True

[@GoldenScouter]

Other than movies 12 and 13, SS3 doesn't really accomplish much. Its just cool looking, like the user is a part of a badass metal/rock band. I enjoyed this vid, great job.

[@waleedabdullahkhan5706]

Betrayed and trapped in the time chamber 😂😂😂 classic

[@user-fj7mi8fj1y]

No matter what super Saiyan 3 will always be my fav transformation, all real dragon ball fans love all the forms and transformation

[@callummccarthy7058]

You don’t need to be a “real dragon ball fan” to understand the obvious flaws with the story and thus certain forms.

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​​@@callummccarthy7058 fr, he sounds like a dumb mouth breather

[@tomato5049]

Except the Blue form which sucks ass in the anime

[@stealcool]

Overrated??? I think next video should be titled “Learning the English Dictionary”

[@RenatoRevisadas]

Mind to elaborate?

[@stealcool]

@@RenatoRevisadas he misused the word overrated. Ssj3 is anything but overrated and is one of the most hated transformations.

[@farizr.batarai8271]

Really all i see people is liking ssj3?

[@interloper9589]

​@@stealcool I've seen plenty of comments saying how SSJ3 was amazing because it looks cool, conveniently ignoring the writing part of it... Also in some of the "best form in db?" polls I get in my feed SSJ3 gets voted higher than UI at times

[@keybladegames_real]

This is a joke right? When was super saiyan 3 overrated? The form that is TRULY overrated is super saiyan 4. That form isnt that special yet GT fans treat it like its the best thing ever. All it is is saiyans in a furry outfit.

[@beegdawg]

They only treat it as the best thing because of the Budokai/Budokai Tenkaichi games.. lmao But symbolically, it sure is a better form!

[@keybladegames_real]

@@beegdawg it's not even that great. I even question the color choices. How do you go from a golden oozaru to a black and red Saiyan? I've seen a Xenoverse 2 mod that he was gold and it looked SO damn good. He actually looked like a real super Saiyan. But the only thing the ssj4 form has in relation to the golden oozaru was the red around the eyes. If you ask me it's just more GT being edgy and focused on looking cool

[@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman]

​@@keybladegames_realnothing wrong with the color

[@keybladegames_real]

@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman only a GT fan would think that. Ill repeat myself. How do you go from a golden great ape to black hair and red fur? It should of been gold but we gotta go with being cool and edgy to get the kids to watch and like GT. Cause who needs logic when you got ridiculous plots, unexplained plot holes and edginess

[@ben-right-here]

​@@keybladegames_real I can see your point, but I think it's more of an aesthetical thing than a super edgy and dark thing. Even in the concept arts, the idea was that the red fur would be silver which looks cool too (even if it is still not related to the golden of super saiyan in any way). And those words you're reading come from a guy that adores the look of super saiyan 1 and blue more than 4 (in most cases)

[@DeathguardCleric]

8:59 NOT THE BETRAYED AND TRAPPED IN A TIMECHAMBER SHADE 😭

[@MarioSonicBee]

SSJ3 contradicts what Goku figured out in the time chamber, I love mastered SSJ as someone who does martial arts and spars I love how they applied real logic to the forms. Getting stronger doesn’t mean you automatically win but SSJ3 ruins all that set up and what Goku learned in favor of a cool form. At least that’s what I think

[@dankerbell]

as an average super saiyan 3 hater this video gives me life, i do like the transformation scenes in the show and fusion reborn but beyond the surface level "wow sean can scream, cool" there's nothing else i like, including the look

[@Sinsanities]

Hahaha a fine addition to my collection (put this video together with masakox super saiyan 3 video from 7 years ago)

[@mythical5958]

super saiyan = cool super saiyan 2 = same as the first but not bad super saiyan 3 = WHERE ARE HIS EYEBROWS super saiyan god = its aight super saiyan blue = i like it

[@CaptainFalcon-exboyfriend]

Honestly I was skeptical about your video at first but when you contended that SSJ3 should have been a Gotenks exclusive form I started to agree with you. What would hype it up even more is if they gave us scenes where Goku tried to achieve it, barely missed the mark, and then tries to get the kids to do it. This would have given context for the form to even exist, create serious character development for Goku and the kids, as well as removing a useless form.

[@yashtiwari__]

Carthu's hate for Vegeta is so real and obvious (Vegeta has an exclusive form too). It's unfortunate to see such a huge series fan be biased

[@Grumpsterdumpster]

What is vegeta's exclusive form in the buu saga? If your talking about Majin vegeta, that's not a form it's a power boost.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

More like your biased fanboyism for Vegeta is so real and obvious.

[@brendansoucy2220]

i'd actually argue the other way and say that SSJ3 absolutely should have been a goku exclusive form, just with better writing to avoid the character assassination. SSJ3's energy drawbacks are explicitly stated to not be an issue in Otherworld due to the weird physiology of "undead" bodies and energy consumption, which is why Goku didn't realize it was so draining for someone in the living world. i think the best route would actually be to have it foreshadowed by him using it in bursts during the majin vegeta fight, too quickly to be seen, only in tandem with heavy attacks (even if it's not a lot foreshadowing), so that goku doesn't notice the energy drain. maybe write it so majin vegeta's actually just more powerful than goku at that point (in SSJ2), so that goku still loses and wakes up later. he goes to fight Buu, only then realizing his mistake with relying on a form he hadn't properly tested prior. or, yknow, just dont use it at all lmao

[@pyranitar]

I don't think ssj3 being energy taxing is as much as a regression of his battle IQ as people say it is, remember, he learned this form while in the afterlife while not having a living body. The stamina issue wasn't as prominent as it was with Goku in a living body.

[@arkkon2740]

Goku's died twice, and only for a few years at a time, it really shouldn't have been that hard to differentiate the power drain of a dead man, and the power drain from someone who's alive. I wanna remind you that he was considered dead up until he swapped with old kai, thats most of the way through the arc, so this wasnt even a problem before. Theres absolutely no way that he couldn't have used ss3 for like 15 seconds to beat Vegeta, but he just used it to flex on buu and then ran off without actually doing much

[@The_Ultimate_Fusion_Vegito]

Why did Carthu change the thumbnail?

[@gabrielvieira4177]

I thought ssj3 was a universally hated form? What happened to that

[@MichaelAChristian1]

Is TO GO FURTHER BEYOND!!

[@josetomascamposrobledano4618]

ITS ONLY ICONIC BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN! The form does NOTHING!