The Most Powerful Theme in Commander

[@williamdrum9899]

Biggest problem with land destruction is it's either destroy all of them for 4 mana or destroy one land for 4 mana. We need more cards like Keldon Firebombers and Wildfire.

[@destroyergod_9205]

I think cards like wildfire actually benefit lands decks, losing 4 lands hurts more if you have 6 than if you have 14

[@F4xP4s]

Sinkhole rate is good

[@ВасяПупкин-ш3ф4у]

​@@destroyergod_9205yeah you are right, i play wildfire like cards in my landfall deck and it is often wincon

[@27777BigRedBarn]

I run Shivan Harvest in a few decks. The look on some players faces when I turn 3 blow up the forest they grabbed with natures lore is great. Then we go round and round about how green can remove my rocks with ease but I’m not allowed to remove the forest they ramp into. I call BS. Fair is fair. And Magic… is decidedly not fair. This doesn’t always work though and I only do this when I know I’m playing a heavy ramp deck that my ability to interact with is limited.

[@rocker1296]

Land destruction isn't a good answer to land decks, imo. For Mass Land Destruction it's like challenging Usain Bolt to a 100M dash and being able to reset the race. You're not winning that race unless you go through the long and tedious process of wearing him down, by constantly resetting. Targeted land destruction doesn't work because you need to have a critical mass of cards, at which point you aren't even really playing your deck, you're just running a hate deck to something that isn't even 100% guaranteed to be at the table.

[@relariis_the_paradox]

As an aggro player, I just wanna note that the reason we "spread the love" is usually not out of incompetence, it's because we are usually playing *casual* commander, so we want to make sure our friends still get a chance to play the game lol. (Also sometimes to avoid becoming the archenemy until we pop off)

[@villageflippinidiot]

I feel this heavily. I want to turn my dinos sideways and get attack triggers or just hit for big numbers. I don't necessarily want to end someone's game immediately who I just met at a casual commander night table

[@woopertrainer]

This!

[@vurtruvious5280]

also prevents the whole "oh man why is this guy just bullying me". Most commander aggro players really do have the ability to just thanos snap someone out of existence. We just choose not to do this because well..whats the point of shuffling up if youre just gonna curb stomp someone into dust before it gets fun

[@woopertrainer]

@@vurtruvious5280 I’m torn between this because I want to show people what my deck can do but also want to have fun with it lol

[@iicontagion5864]

I will say, I dont agree here because you are playing your strat wrong. If you refuse to be agro with an aggro deck you took time to build, dont play aggro. Its counter to the deck, the strat and how you win. Each archtype is what it is. And to build aggro and play grouphug is basically saying, Hey guys i wanna hit yall but im not really here to win. Might as well be a none player or worse a kingmaker. Anyways, thats my personal opinion from decades of experience.

[@TheInvadernick]

One thing your should also consider against landfall is tutor hate. if they can't search for their lands, they become a lot less powerful. In general, I feel that EDH NEEDS more tutor hate that's available early and playable in every color.

[@cameronlodor6985]

I really struggle with threat assessment, I’d love if you made a video on what each deck types weakness is, generally speaking.

[@BuckShotTherapy]

This is not always something that a video will help with but more so through experience playing your meta. What I've learned through countless games no matter what pod I'm in is that card draw wins games. If you see something giving a player a considerable amount of card advantage you should probably get rid of it i.e. rhystic study lol or something like beast whisperer that will accrue value over time in a creature deck but not necessarily cards that say it only triggers once on that person's turn or once each turn like most white card draw for example Welcoming Vampire. Those aren't as bad. Card draw spells you want to counter are like Peer Into The Abyss or an X spell that draws and that they've sinked a considerable amount of mana into.

[@soulkens]

Just read cards as many as you can that are the “most played” it’s different for every deck so say a dockside extortionist in a casual game when not in cEDH there might be 2 artifacts out on the battlefield so you save the counterspell…now what if a guy who’s running a flicker deck is casting it? You need to make sure it never enters the battlefield with that counterspell or risk that player bouncing it over and over maybe even going infinite with it. Threats assessment depends on your opponents commanders, what their deck is trying to do, and even play styles.

[@Blu_Moon_Owl]

I actually love it when someone else has Confounding Conundrum because it essentially ensures I’ll have a land in hand in case I don’t already have one or a ramp spell to get more. A secret traitor card that benefits me

[@williamdrum9899]

@@Blu_Moon_Owl At one mana it would have broken every "fetchland format," but they costed it at 2 mana therefore it's useless

[@Blu_Moon_Owl]

@@williamdrum9899 really?

[@williamdrum9899]

@@Blu_Moon_Owl Yep. Imagine if it just cost a single blue mana. You go first and drop it. Your opponent's hand is 3 polluted delta and 4 nonland. Your opponent just lost the game

[@Skankster]

Before watching this I was like "it has to be lands," so I obviously agree. Balance in casual Commander is interesting though and ultimately makes rule zero that much more important for people looking for a specific game experience. Which is awkward and/or time consuming with random people at an LGS, but you get what you put into it.

[@erikchumbley3014]

To be fair, it's also about being able to assess the other players at the table. I always give newer players more leeway that the players who know what they are doing. I find it's less important to figure out "what" is being played than it is to figure out "who" is playing. I like to talk shit about Simic players but it's all bark. The truth is that I'm long past the point of caring about whether or not I actually win in any given game.

[@Skankster]

@@erikchumbley3014 That's true, it's up to the more experienced players to gauge the "power levels" of the pod's decks, especially against people new to the game. If someone is just starting out, I'd rather they get to do something cool and have fun, than have myself play an oppressive deck that'll win.

[@soldancer]

"I find it's less important to figure out 'what' is being played than it is to figure out 'who' is playing." I LOVE THIS.

[@_Johnny_GG]

Meanwhile my pod has one dude (Evan) who runs mass land destruction in all of his decks

[@thetrinketmage]

Shout out to Evan

[@ryanarntz5098]

You're the man Evan

[@GridRivers]

This is exactly my dude Andrei running four or so mass land destruction in every deck. lol. love the Evans

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

Nobody likes you Evan

[@blaze556922]

Then you shouldn't allow Evan to play. Respecting other people, their time, and their enjoyment is paramount in any game. Evan sounds like a bad friend and bad person

[@sebastianahrens2385]

As an avid Aesi player, I can speak from experience that you DO NOT want, under any circumstances, to go into topdeck mode. As soon as your group knows what your deck is capable of, they'll target the one heel the deck has: Its reliance/dependence on having the commander on the battlefield at all times. Aesi will eat continuous removal, and you need to be ready to defend it. Otherwise, you'll end up with a 10+ Aesi in the command zone, an empty hand, and a board full of nothing but lands, which do shockingly little by themselves :D

[@equivocat]

I’ve been looking for other ways to punish these filthy rampers. Opposition Agent, Aven Mindcensor, Price of Progress, Rest in Peace, Planar Void are auto includes in the decks that support the colors. Ankh of Mishra and Tunnel Ignus are being tested now! If these infants will claim foul for interacting with their lands, we’ll just have to be more creative about it.

[@Ent229]

Run Glacial Chasm or Field of the Dead in a deck or two. It helps people understand that some lands (like Gaia's Cradle or Cabal Coffers) are scary and valid targets for single use single target removal. (Just avoid MLD because ramp decks win that game) On the other hand if all they are doing is playing basics, then you might be better off racing them (artifact ramp is faster than land ramp) or racing them (video talks about aggro, but group slug with Ankh of Mishra is scary too) or racing them (a control deck sets up a stronger endgame sooner than a ramp deck does).

[@blaze556922]

Or just don't be a prick. Sounds like you've missed the point of even playing...

[@nateking1210]

I'd recommend confounding conundrum as a pretty decent pick to stop ramping. Getting all those lands searched up is a lot less good when your opponents can't even put them into play, and they go to hand instead. It also shuts off fetchlands almost entirely, at least if they crank them the same turn they play them. It's also an uneven effect, not affecting how you can ramp using lands.

[@Ent229]

Be extremely careful with confounding conundrum. It is good against land ramp but bad against land fall. The former cares about mana volume from lands. The latter cares about land ETB triggers. I have played both. The only time I saw confounding conundrum was against my sultai landfall deck. My opponent's confounding conundrum made my landfall deck win 1 turn earlier than it would have because I didn't run out of land to put into play. (Honestly if it were a symmetric effect, I would be runningconfounding conundrum in my Landfall deck) If a Lotus Cobra or Azusa is in play, don't play confounding conundrum. If the opponent is getting ready to play boundless realms, play confounding conundrum.

[@leifdering3600]

Ramp is ALWAYS an act of aggression. Nobody is "just ramping"

[@Grudi28]

Spellslinger/storm decks are really strong in casual commander too, if you go with something like vadrik and people run so little removal and even less counterspells, you can abuse the stack to win easily

[@tyrone3185]

I must say as well I do appreciate that you actually use ur platform to speak your mind dispite being a bit counter culture.

[@thetrinketmage]

You can be 100% sure that all my vids are my opinions!

[@andrewb378]

I'm not sure how counter culture "Lands decks are super strong" really is. They're pretty objectively insanely powerful simply because commander tends to just be a race to 8 mana and nothing gets to 8 mana faster than a lands deck.

[@messymessr]

@@andrewb378 The solution being to break a taboo makes it counter culture by definition, doesn't it?

[@travislebaube7646]

I absolutely agree with all of this. My son is fairly new and not well versed in deck building. He threw together a deck with Six as the commander and just random greens that i had in a box. That deck is one of my most powerful out of about 12. I played at my LGS last weekend. The dude had a commander that retrieved land from the graveyard then got six out and he was almost unstoppable. He gained so much advantage in just the two or three rounds he had both of them out. This video definitely helps me see the situation more clearly and how to counter it. Thank you.

[@justinmorsch3208]

Def needs to be a “each player sacrifices lands until all players have the same amount of lands as the player with the lowest number of lands”

[@thetrinketmage]

Land equilibrium kinda does that and also restore balance since normal balance is banned

[@oxpolitik]

Natural Balance is close, but is in green.

[@redstoneplaysmc1639]

Balancing act can do the same thing, but for all permanents, so clean out all nonland permanents and keep your land count low to kill a bunch of lands

[@arondrnichols1003]

Blink out my lands and play this and watch the table weep

[@mdrlolcat]

The reason Golos is banned is not because he's busted, it's because lands are busted.

[@thetrinketmage]

Honestly he would probably be stronger now then when I made this video cause of the new lands

[@happybrain2674]

everything thats hard to interact is strong. imo landfall is up on powerfull themes, but i think of aristocrats, spellslinger, flicker as the stronger once (btw thats just those that came up on spot). - aristocrats strait up needs gravehate cause you cant get rid of it thanks to free instantspeed repedable sac outlets and loopholes to repeat something that does value over and over. - spellslingers mostly cares if you have blue in your colors if not you have to push the lifetotals to 0 somehow cause other ways to interact are too slow and weak. - flicker combines two of the hardest interactable effects: spells and etb. every removal means you need at least twice that much or its completely useless. but maybe im thinking of whats the most strongest way to play those themes and that way its out of casual commander^^.

[@soldancer]

Magic has a ton of permanents capable of repeatedly destroying every kind of permanent with the notable exception of lands (ok, and Planeswalkers if you don't count damage). There are barely over a dozen cards that have repeatable land-destruction effects, many of which require you to sacrifice your own lands to activate. I wonder what it would look like if we had more stuff like Dwarven Miner or Helldozer.

[@thetrinketmage]

I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately trying to find a good way to formulate these thoughts into a video

[@itskmillz]

just built my mothman deck with a landfall subtheme, it seems really strong.

[@michelefumagalli81]

That's interesting, can you share the decklist?

[@folmerbrem]

I recently made a land deck that also is packed with board wipes and indestructible creatues for wincons. That adds another nasty layer on top of an already powerful strategy.

[@godlyMike127]

As someone who inadvertently realized that their favorite color combo is abzan and their favorite strategy is an enchantment-heavy sacrifice deck, I absolutely agree with you lol. We need to be killed. There has been times where I could almost completely handle a 3v1 archenemy-style game and be mostly fine. I also overly tinker and optimize my decks and often have to scale them back so even I can have proper fun and am not just wiping out a table. But this is also factoring that my other friends also are good deck builders and pimp their decks out. I wasn’t just pub stomping, the decks can just snowball into becoming that strong that quickly. With Crucible of Worlds on the field and Riftstone Portal in the yard, there’s basically nothing anyone can do unless you have specific graveyard hate. It is a very powerful theme, and I would agree, at least tied for the strongest currently.

[@shayneweyker]

Natural Balance is a reasonable answer to land ramp. The only problem is that its green, which has all the good land ramp. If it was any other color I think it would have seen play in EDH. If you ever build a green or part green deck that doesn't use land ramp it's worth trying against ramp decks. Stopping/punishing tutoring, landfall, and card draw can all help too. Finally there's red creatures and spells that do damage based on number of lands opponents control.

[@MrCMaccc]

I'd honestly make the argument for Jund Reanimator being the strongest theme for similar reasons. You still have the ramp from green, plus a lot of sacrifice synergy that provides ramp via treasures, lots of non-creature draw and removal. Plus, a lot of the normal ways of actually dealing with something (ie, exile) doesn't work if in response you just sacrifice it yourself. Additionally, it's quite easy to build in ways of winning without combat, meaning things that are more common in casual games like building armies of tokens or big hard to break threats just don't stop you.

[@atalhlla]

I had plans for a jankier lands deck where one of the things I’d try to do is give someone my Confounding Conundrum, just so I could do exactly what you said: guarantee more land drops.

[@goseigentwitch3105]

"Now they're in topdeck mode" *shows hypothetical where opponent is on 6 cards in hand still*

[@leaflotus6726]

Armageddon is hated yet blasphemous is enjoyed.

[@Balileart]

Played in a lower power pod. I was in gruul and another in esper and I had a magebane lizard and they had an aven mindcensor. The other two players were land decks and it was so funny how much work those two cards did as the land players kept trying to play ramp only to be burned and fail to find lands in the top couple cards

[@bryankopkin6869]

I really appreciate your content. Keep up the great work! Hope you reach 10k soon!

[@thetrinketmage]

Thanks! And I’m hopeful I’ll get there!

[@Ox7moron]

Saw the new cactus and just thought "well Phylath got another friend yet again"

[@thetrinketmage]

Cactus 🌵 card seems powerful in a lot of decks

[@starrysunflower332]

“People don’t play graveyard hate” not me running Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, and Bojuka Bog.

[@brendans1983]

Cant deny it; i have built my 4c Omnath about 5 different ways, obviously all involving landfall to some degree, and each one has been able to constantly threaten the board. My current iteration has no landfall cards beside Omnath itself, and it still does its job 🥳

[@thetrinketmage]

To be fair Omnath is strong enough to carry almost any deck!

[@xaropevic7918]

Which are your 5 ways? I did a 4c omnath lifegain deck and I love this dumb idea

[@brendans1983]

@@xaropevic7918 yeah mate, Omnath is so fun to try different things with, lifegain is one i havent ventured down yet but that rabbit hole would be a fun descent for sure. Angels in an Omnath build is my style 👍 Originally mine was just generic landfall, as I had never played with the archetype before. Too many triggers for me though. The most fun I had with that deck was cloning Omnath, playing and cracking a fetch and having 8 mana and +8 life, so i rebuilt around that mana ability; clone Omnath and/or copy its triggered effect and cast big Timmy spells. But then i realised i really liked hitting that 3rd land drop with many Omnaths. So i decided to remove all the Timmy cards and went to a more damage focused build. Focused hard on hitting exactly 3 land drops every turn, included damage doublers/triplers and man, that deck was fire 🔥 but when you put a 2-turn clock on everyone, you get smashed. So my latest iteration is trying to make that same Omnath a threat during the combat phase, both aggressively and defensively. Few different things I'm trialling, am thinking Voltron with less focus on the 3rd land drop. But keep all the clone, trigger copy effects and extra damage spells for the extra 8mana every turn and extra combat damage. Or maybe I remove the clones and go full aggro? 🤷‍♂️

[@reisenlaniakea7374]

Thanks for the hint to Bristly. I directly ordered one copy for my Token/Counter Deck. Interesting topic.

[@Alex-sb3dc]

i have an aesi deck that dominates pretty hard, so i only bring it out when i know theres a good challenge. i can confirm that the weakest moment for a deck like this is the turn i play my commander or the turn after. i usually have about 2 cards in hand and a couple turns of killing aesi or one well timed counterspell could let someone pull ahead of the deck

[@Raghetiel]

Who knew, that an answer to a strong value deck, is using your brain and playing interaction. I guess that explains, why land decks are so powerful

[@hoffedemann5370]

Urza's Sylex. Everyone gets to have 6 lands. Each other permanent is destroyed. Love it

[@vittoriosavian9964]

Land removal isnt the solution. Because 1 effects that lets me replay land from the bin and its over

[@hoffedemann5370]

@@vittoriosavian9964 the point is that either player (with 6 lands left) is at least ABLE to counter that splendid reclamation

[@AtlasAdvice254]

I think it would beneficial to have more stax pieces against ramp. Like, “players can’t put more than 1 land card onto the battlefield per turn” or “if a player were to put more than one land onto the battlefield in a turn, that player sacrifices a land”

[@greatbrandini3967]

If only Wizards were willing to reprint Land Equilibrium: if an opponent puts a land into play and they control more lands than you, they sac a land. Ward of Bones is also really good, but it's a 6 drop

[@evanragland4930]

In my experience value commanders are still the strongest in casual. Being able to cast large spells at a discounted price (Jodah, Elminster, etc.) Or just cascading/discovering (new Jodah or Dino commander) into free cards is extremely powerful and you dont even have to consistently do it the entire game to win. It usually only takes 1 or 2 turns where your board state is just that much better than any else you should be able to win from there.

[@colinlynch6491]

Patron of the moon is my favorite deck! Loved building the deck years ago and realizing all the other combos i put in over time

[@twistedtachyon5877]

It's been scratching at the back of my mind for months. I ought to just buckle down and figure out how I want to build the thing...

[@WarmasterSidious]

Love your channel!

[@jaysuede2627]

Worst strategy in the world is choosing your attack targets at random. Always pick the deck you can't beat after turn 7.

[@charlessandison5740]

So, basically, Player removal is the best removal

[@Jammonstrald]

My friend's omnath landfall deck is unstoppable under casual commander etiquette. It's THE reason I have an "in case of emergency, break glass" Winter Orb on hand.

[@CBSiegmeyer3]

Deck list??

[@Jammonstrald]

@@CBSiegmeyer3 for the omnath?

[@CBSiegmeyer3]

@@Jammonstraldyea if you’ve got it. Thanks!

[@Jammonstrald]

@@CBSiegmeyer3 no clue. it was Omnath Locus of Rage, and a bunch of lands and things that allow you to play extra lands.

[@CBSiegmeyer3]

@@Jammonstraldhey thanks anyway man appreciate it!

[@adnansweeney]

Love your content! Always high quality and well explained 😊

[@andrewpeli9019]

The deck that has a plan is the best deck in casual commander. Landfall just happens to be a very supported strategy that’s brain dead easy to build.

[@Dynme]

Something that came up in the most recent Command Zone: Basically nobody counterspells ramp in general, and I think that may be a mistake here. Obviously you want to counter Scapeshift or Shape the Earth, but I think even if you can disrupt the early Cultivate or Rampant Growth, you might be able to buy some time to work out a more permanent solution. I could be wrong, though...

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

There's no point in countering ramp

[@Dynme]

@@mr.wafflesrz1137 Okay, but why? If lands are their engine, why wouldn't you want to try to starve it of fuel?

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

@@Dynme Because the whole deck is ramp, you can counter one maybe 2 cards but not a whole deck

[@Dynme]

@@mr.wafflesrz1137 Granted you can't counter the entire deck. But, to pick on the two Simic "play lands and get free stuff" commanders you used as examples, if you counter an early Cultivate, you're delaying Tatyova or Aesi from hitting the field by a turn, right? And if you counter it late game, you're denying them a 3-mana ramp 2, draw 2, and gain 2 (for Tatyova). So early game, you're delaying their engine. And late game, you're keeping them from drawing more gas (as you said, their entire deck is gas). Those both seem like valuable plays to me, but I also don't usually play control, so I freely admit I may be missing perspective here. If you don't counter ramp, what do you counter? Colossus and Scute, then hope someone has an instant or board wipe for Avenger?

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

@@Dynme Counter the big ramp spells instead like space shift. Anything that gets them 3+ lands

[@jamesoakley9333]

This is one of the reasons I run permanent removal as opposed to a specific type.

[@thetrinketmage]

Same I am very much on the generous gift plan instead of path to exile

[@jamesoakley9333]

@@thetrinketmage i run both usually.

[@davidbures854]

As an Landfall enjoyer, I'd offer a different perspective. If you and other players at the table feel that you have to gang up on a player in order to have a chance of winning, that is a Rule 0 conversation. I am a huge advocate for encouraging everyone to "do what the deck is designed for" while also holding up interaction to deal with threats. But if you are just holding interaction up for only one player from turn 1 or encouraging everyone to gang up on one player, you should honestly just talk about changing decks so that everyone is on a more even playing field, either faster or slower. It is the worst feels-bad when everyone targets you for having landfall while another player sets up their Voltron commander to start one-shotting everyone on turn 6.

[@paxtonfurr6670]

I just built Zask, skittering swarmlord. I'm surprised more people don't build it as a lands deck. It's a crucible of worlds on a stick.

[@joshprice4855]

As a control player I've started attacking ramp decks, well, ramp. I'll counter ramp spells, kill creatures like azusa, and hit their nonland ramp like sol ring. I've kinda realized that letting other people dictate what archetypes are "casual" leads to a lot of rocket tag and pushing back against it has created funner decks for me. Also the strongest archetype has got to be artifacts. I've seen decks made out of literal shoe box cards stomp out 3 more curated decks on artifact synergy alone.

[@okgut2033]

enchantment, artifact, or flicker decks are imo also on the same threat level. but more importantly, i would have said any deck with massrecursion or loops, esp if those are instantspeed based or sorceries are even worse. cause if counterspells are the only option to stop anything someone does in a "casual" table, that's far stronger than doing land loops. but is it still casual if it's nearly impossible to interact with a strategy or requires niche interaction?

[@ry7hym]

mass land destruction is probably less annoying than targeted land destruction, change my mind

[@ry7hym]

2:26 another fun one for blue is The Omenkeel

[@zacdredge3859]

SO the hidden weakness of the lands deck is the old gang up and hit their face a lot strat? I mean, sure, but that can be said for anything.

[@kingnido6606]

Hey mage I'm currently working on my first ever landfall commander (Thalia and the gitrog) and this video was really helpful I was wondering what the lofi song was that was playing in the background Again thanks for a really helpful and informative video and wish me luck with my first ever landfall deck 😂👊

[@philipweidig270]

Rolling a die to determine who to attack or arbitrarily attacking everyone to "share the love" are two easy ways to get on my shit list in casual games. If you really can't be bothered to make a decision, just attack the player who went first! Make decisions and own up to them, it's what makes the game fun to play! So yes, hard agree. Get feet on the ground and try to pressure the value deck however you can!

[@cinderheart2720]

Lavaball Trap might not be good, but man does it send a message.

[@pathkeepers]

One of the guys in my meta has a child of alara landfall deck, so we all run a bit of land removal, just for him 😅 our group Mantra is "card draw wins games." So we're all pretty allergic to draw engines as well. I would agree that landfall decks are generally the most powerful in casual commander.

[@aklepatzky]

100% agree. I have a cEDH Aesi deck in paper (it started as high-power) and my win rate in high power was like 50% which is insane, and mind my playgroup has strong high power decks, not your average timmy EDH experience. In simic we fold to aggro: we lack good boardwipes besides cyclonic. Gy hate is annoying as well. I see someone casting rest in peace I counter it on the spot

[@Blackstar-rf9yp]

Some of my favorite simic killers: Keldon Firebombers, Natural Balance, and Polluted Bonds. Tutor and nonbasic hate to taste.

[@thetrinketmage]

Polluted bonds is so good and cheap too after the reprint!

[@christianmacintyre5453]

Flicker is even better, i run a brago deck with cards like venser, shaper servant and agent of treachery etc and get more etbs with cards like panharmonicon, teleportation circle, etc. the whole deck just puts everything back into your hand including your lands faster than you can play them. The only issue is being an arch enemy

[@DragonmasterSK]

The excuse for mass land destruction is well justified. The problem is that it drags the entire game. Its not "punishing" the landfall player, it's punishing the entire table because of the landfall player. There's no win/win situation here.

[@mr.wafflesrz1137]

Finally someone who gets it

[@51gunner]

The lands/ramp player might have the means to recover from it faster, too. My Simic Greed Engine deck I'm working on has 46 lands + a couple MDFCs. If I'm not totally empty-handed I can probably claw back up from 0 lands; after all, I already built up from 0 lands to start the game, I have the tools to do it again. I can lose ten lands from my deck and probably have as many lands left in there as other players started the game with. This isn't even considering decks that plan to recur lands; Undergrowth Reconnaissance is 1GG for perpetual ramp if you've got fetches in the deck. Doesn't even have to be expensive fetches, the New Capenna ones like Brokers Hideout are fantastic. If land-wiped, fine; I'll be coming back from it faster than basically anyone else. Nor does it consider that Heroic Intervention is a pretty common include in green.

[@monstercarreno]

Thats the problem with Winter Orb and those Hard-Stax things. Most of them dont come out as a Wincon, it comes out early and drags the game infinitely until everyone collapses. My main problem with it is that everyone I know that plays EDH with me is an adult with a specific timeframe and limited time. If we're gonna spend an hour looking to the table and waiting for the draw, then its time wasted, precious time that might not be back anytime soon. Respect other people's time and commitment, if its not a tournament don't just stop the play entirely. If you make a Mass LD, END THE GAME after it. Fast. Do it while you're winning as a mean to secure the game, not slow me down.

[@soldancer]

Ditto for Cyclonic Rift. You best be winning the game after casting that shit and not just making everyone rebuild their board for 3+ turns.

[@monstercarreno]

@@soldancer Yeah, Cyclonic Rift is more of a Stax than a removal

[@Yomolink]

What do you think about Zimone & Dina as a landfall commander? I have been looking for a sultai deck but i dont know if they are good enough. Thanks for the video :) !

[@thetrinketmage]

Yes I do think that commander is great! Actually a friend of mine built a similar deck recently and it’s pretty strong! I say go for it

[@Yomolink]

@@thetrinketmage thanks a lot, I'll test It on moxfield :)

[@DadamWrites]

I play mono Black. I'm told I have access to great removal. And ... That's sorta true. Our creature removal is powerful and hard to avoid. Everything else - outside Feed the Swarm and Withering Tournament, we're leaning on janky or expensive spells or colorless board wipes. Artifacts are very hard to remove, and Enchantments aren't much better. At least our tutors are great, and we can life tax people haha

[@charliescheirmann2926]

I am a firm believer in cards that benefit you from other players doing things in a 4 player format. For instance Sire of Stagnation, Archaeomancer's Map, Deep Gnome Terramancer, Keeper of the Accord, Burgeoning, Claim Jumper, and Surveryor's Scope to name a few, can all serve as means to gain ramp yourself or even draw cards when opponents play/ramps lands. You can also go the route of punishing players for ramping with things like Cemetery Keeper, Polluted Bonds, or Zozu the Punisher. Lastly you can outright limit opponents from continuing to play lands by using hate pieces like Ward of Bones, though things like this may be kinda salt inducing.

[@grantpolley]

These days it feels like graveyard hate is printed onto every other card for free. I don't think you can count on dodging it on average.

[@BobJones-bg4ui]

I like these topics. The place I go runs “causal” tournaments where games are timed up to 45 minutes. Because it’s a tournament setting many people being high power decks meant to win turn 4, or 5. I personally don’t like magic that way as I spent 1 hour of my life just to establish a rule zero with a group. :/ I play Cedh, and power 7 - 8, but I have a few upgraded pre cons.

[@thetrinketmage]

I’ve been thinking a lot about taking on the topic of “casual tournaments” since I really don’t think they work well in practice

[@BobJones-bg4ui]

@@thetrinketmage I would like this topic as I’m brand new to causal tournament format. I tried my first one this month. I’m curious to hear what decks you would bring if your goal was to win. Btw, money is a huge factor since proxies aren’t allowed unless you can own the card. My non-proxy decks are too slow to win in that format. :0

[@andrewb378]

@@BobJones-bg4ui casual tournaments is just a super dumb idea for commander. There's too much variance and not enough clarity. What counts as casual? Just anything that isn't in the cEDH database? There are absolutely cEDH decks that aren't in that database. Slicer is super strong and was a cEDH commander for a bit but isn't currently on the list. There's a really nasty Malcolm, keen eyed navigator/ kediss, emberclaw familiar polymorph deck that's not currently on the list but has been in the past. The line between casual and competitive is so blurry there's almost no point.

[@BobJones-bg4ui]

@@andrewb378 Here are the rules my store follows. It’s 3 dollar entrance fee. I personally think it’s okayish as it’s a way for everyone to play and know each other. But, I’m am limited to what I can build. “1 ticket given out for matching the colour of the week, participating and each game won. Three 50-Minute games are played each week. Remaining tickets will be split with those who have the most wins. We follow the Regular MTG Commander Ban list without wish boards. If a Player Goes Infinite in the first 25-Minutes, they will represent it and then remove themselves. They still score a win but the remaining players will continue playing for a secondary winner. Commander Tie Breakers: When time is called finish the current turn rotation then compare breakers. 1. Highest Life Total 2. Most Permanents Controlled 3. Highest amount payed to cast a commander (including Commander Tax) 4. Most Commander Damage dealt during the game. (with a single commander not a pair) 5. Most Damage or Life Loss dealt by a single player to an oponent's Life Total in a single turn.”

[@thetrinketmage]

@@BobJones-bg4ui so I don’t participate in casual tournaments on principle. I really don’t like tournaments that just add weird rules. In my opinion just play cEDH if you want to run a tournament! But if I had to go to a “casual” tournament I would bring a landfall deck

[@peters.9463]

In our gaming club the landfall decks mostly win the games. I don't have one, but I already updated my commander decks to counter such landfall decks a bit, mostly with graveyard hate cards. However I am not a very experienced magic player, I played a lot in the 90s and started again since last year. Oh boy, there were so many things happening since then in Magic! :P

[@cv4126]

I entirely agree that landfall is the most powerful casual deck archetype.

[@ScorpioneOrzion]

What abuot a landfall deck that plays like the tools to deal with other landfall decks or so? Sort of a semi aggro-landfall deck.

[@thetrinketmage]

sounds interesting, what colors or commanders are you thinking?

[@ScorpioneOrzion]

@@thetrinketmage idk I think most colors can do this

[@themonsoon117]

I've played landfall against mass land destruction based decks to solid sucess. Any landfall deck has tons of land recursion, letting you get back into the game rapidly, and a landfall's boardstate is usually insanely powerful for cheap. Real counters are insanely fast combo decks(Thassa's Oracle types) or a combination of land destruction, graveyard hate, and mass boardwipes.

[@blu6295]

I often play Commander with just one of my friends, and my Eriette deck honestly kinda slaps. I may be able to mimic America, with the amount of weapons I deal, but I can also mimic German beaurocracy by slowing everything down to snails pace. At least in 1v1s. I sadly couldn't test the deck that much with 3-4 players.

[@sethrose9534]

Land shenanigans is my go to strategy. Aside was my first commander before I moved her to the 99 in favor of tatyova. Now I've got necrobloom, Nine-Fingers and hazezon to hang and lord windgrace is in the works 😊

[@Uri6060]

Urborg + Spreading Algae is the way of the future!

[@calebbrown1068]

Landfall decks never sat well with me. I figured just having way more mana than everybody else was enough of an upside already.

[@vlmoua]

Constant Mist in any landfall back is game over in most cases

[@casuallydone468]

I think the trick against Lands is Group Slug cards not aggro. Group Slug decks have card directly punishing players for not tapping out, and doing a ton of game actions in one turn. Price of Progress can flat out kill most land decks by turn 8-9, Manabarbs is a huge limiter on how much they can do, Descent into Avernus turns the game into a race, Citadel of Pain and co drowns out most of the deck's removal spells, ZoZu and Ankh of Mishra directly hit lands players. Group Slug just incidentally happens to really care about how many spells people play and how many lands people have, and incidentally give the entire board cards and fast mana negating the main upsides of playing a lands deck.

[@RaiyZa_]

I once built Atraxa, Praetor's Voice Land Awakening for edh

[@Rob-jj2xm]

Most favorite deck I had was Mogis, God of Slaughter. Not strong at all and was group slug. Ran Ahnk of Misrha, Zozu, Manabarbs. Absolutely shut down the landfall deck at the table. Best feeling ever.

[@MTGDuelist8870]

Aggro decks have a natural disadvantage in casual commander, and it's not just because of the hate towards targeting one person all game long and bullying them out of the game. Aggro as a strat falls flat on it's face most of the time unless your playing commander's like Gishath because yea you can thanos snap one person out of the game, but you still have 80 more life to chip through between two opponents who are drawing 2 cards divided between them vs your one card a turn. not to mention your opponents can do a similar thing to you that you did to the lands deck. wait for you to enter top deck mode after killing the control player by dumping your hand, boardwipe to remove all your kill power (cause most of them are creatures in Aggro decks) and now they've killed 2 birds with 1 stone. sure you dealt with the control player, but your dead too in most cases (note i say most cases: it's not impossible for you to win at that point but it's a LOT harder), so you've effectively thanos snapped both you and the other guy out of existence and made the game a 1v1 commander fight for the last 2 who didn't get touched which nobody wants when they play in a 4 player pod.

[@rulamagic]

I'm surprised you didn't mention tutor hate like Aven Mindcensor

[@thetrinketmage]

Those are also good! Just few and far between and a lot of people have an aversion to light stax for some reason

[@papawoods]

Shoutout to evolution sage for being the best landfall commander

[@BingbongRecto]

Running all 10 fetches is more sweaty than casual

[@blaze556922]

Lands don't make a deck sweaty... they just give you ability to cast spells. The spells you include, are up to you. Someone can play mana crypt on turn one and not be a problem. Not everyone is looking for combos, stax, etc.

[@BingbongRecto]

@@blaze556922 150 USD on mana fixing is definitely sweaty

[@BingbongRecto]

@@blaze556922 that's what a sweaty person would say

[@blaze556922]

@@BingbongRecto Lol ok You think the person advocating against stax and combos is the sweaty? You have a lot to learn my friend.

[@vittoriosavian9964]

​@@blaze556922i mean, combo, win cards and stax dont make you sweaty... its how you relate to others that makes you sweaty

[@ScubaSteve-se6oe]

As an aggro player I can say for certain that people get really butt hurt when I kill them first if they are a late game focused deck

[@kozad86]

I used to play against a Kruphix deck often, and the only way to beat it was a monoblue mill deck or an artifact combo deck such as Breya or Memnarch, and only if you could ramp out faster. I despise Simic.

[@kevinkozlowski3958]

Kinda just sounds like any well built well rounded deck can beat it.

[@Jinjoledoggo]

How is your agro deck agressive enough if you had removals and graveyard effects in it? Btw. I do agree with everything you said about the casual meta.

[@FlawlessP401]

Well panharmommycon says hello

[@MisterWebb]

I love my Phylath deck

[@DemonOfMyMind]

ETB I'd say is the strongest in casual. The number of combos that are in ETB you don't even need to be built around ETB to win with it. And because there's so little hate for it its so easy for it to accrue value. I think Landfall is strong, but it requires more set up. You need to have a landfall card to trigger off of the lands you pull. Although Landfall is Technically ETB, I'm more referring to ETB artifacts or creatures. Primarily creatures. If I asked you to name 10 really strong creatures with ETB triggers you could probably name me 20 without struggling. Heck, You could probably name me 10 ETB combos without needing to look them up they're so common. I only have 1 deck now since I sold my old cards. But when I had them of my 10 decks I had 8 of them had ETB win cons. Edit: No sorry, 9 had them. My storm deck's commander was an ETB win con.

[@Lornext]

Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists... Like 95% of all casual commander decks lose to these two cards and no one even really realizes their power as they can go for the whole game just doing their own thing and suddenly unable to hit you for a couple of relevant turns and then dying.

[@kazuallykunfuzed]

I'm at the point where when I'm sitting down at the table with new people, I'm rule 0 saying no Omnath. Period. I hate Omnath so much.

[@themoonlitduelist7395]

this wont work in my group...lol, Filled full of monsters and they do get rid of things

[@sacdesable7971]

To my experience A good super friend deck with interaction and wrath is so brutal to unprepared decks At my play groupe they even want me to take my prismatic bridge super friend because it's a basic auto loose because of the absurd quantity of interaction and exponential value the deck can propose But when i play it I see that then don't have removal for the bridge and they attack enough my pw So maybe it's not the best archetype But against inexperienced player it's crushing

[@etlou5921]

well put togheter video, good job

[@wirdoasymmetry]

time to modify mi sultai deck into an enchantress-landfall-reanimator deck (?

[@rogergarcia9994]

I have something to ask, the last saturday I played a commander Casual game against other three oponents. I was playing a Fynn, The Fangbearer's budget deck (25€) while one of the other players was using a dragon deck with the Ur dragon as his commander. He said that he have just used this deck (280€) on a Competitive Commander budget tournament. He started bad with low mana so I started attacking him in turn two with Fynn on the battlefield (he get two poison counters), then he (starting turn 3) just throw a enchantment that let his creatures have haste, so in my turn I destroyed that and attacked him with one creature and another player with another. He got angry and said that he will focus me so in turn 4 I finished him. With that he yelled and me and stormed out of the table. The match was really fast, we finished in turn 6 (I finished another player at turn 5 and the last one finished me at 6). Was it a bad move for my part to focus him? Is it ok to play that type of decks (Fynn) on Commander Casual?

[@messymessr]

Sounds like he was a dick, talking himself up and getting mad for losing. Based on your story, he's the one with bad manners. If you're playing with a regular group, I'd have a conversation with them about the perceived power levels of everyone's decks. Otherwise, just be aware that your budget aggro deck turned out pretty strong or at least accelerates the pace of the game, and remember that if people aren't threatening you, you don' have to focus them. Aggro decks can make people pretty salty, but they should learn to deal with aggro instead of getting mad about it. The only thing that won't make people mad is letting them win, but not too easily. That's not a reasonable burden to bear.

[@TheMaskedNinja_]

I dont think people dislike land destruction in general but rather people just who add it with bo synergies and slow the game down

[@andrewpark78]

If you build combo right I feel like you can usually just go under the lands decks. They’re more annoying with time per action than strong imo.

[@Prolevel92]

how is the aesi example any good how are they in topdeck mode when aesi draws off the land you play on the turn it comes in

[@thetrinketmage]

What do you mean? Sorry the vid was made a while ago so I might not remember the exact part. But was I not saying that Aesi is very good in a top deck situation because anything is action since the lands also draw cards. Which is why it’s good late game

[@Prolevel92]

@@thetrinketmage no it was just about the sequence at 6:28 where you said that they were suddenly in top-deck mode, assuming Aesi is the commander they would have their 6th land drop on turn 4 off cultivates draw with 6 cards remaining in hand, i just did not understand how they suddenly got into top-deck mode. I don't disagree with your point about it being good and drawing cards.

[@victormai5182]

All you gotta do is team up on them

[@haikuheroism6495]

I think my friend who made an Aesi deck and then bitched about me "unfairly targetting him" in the early game with my goblins needs to understand that's the only way for me to win against that deck. Like if I don't swing at him early he'll do some crazy pop off on turn seven and get 200+ life and then sit there gloating as he grinds all of us down into nothing. Games where he plays Aesi either end fast with someone bursting him down in the early turns and then the game continues normally, end with him having some crazy pop off and instakilling everyone, or they grind on for an hour and a half as his deck runs out of steam but whoever's left doesn't have the damage to take out his hundreds of health. TITUS EVERYONE GIVES YOU SHIT AND KILLS YOU EARLY BECAUSE YOUR DECKS ARE INSUFFERABLE AND YOU'RE A TARPIT TO PLAY AGAINST LATEGAME.