The Mystery of the Harkonnen Human-Spider Pet | Dune Lore

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

I think that it’s a creature from the Bene Tlelax’s tanks. The reason that the revernd mother sends it away is because she didn’t want it eavesdropping on their conversation. Piter tries to pass it off as just a pet that doesn’t understand but Hellen saw right through it and saw it for what it was: a recording device.

[@TheChuckfuc]

That's an interesting theory and a very subtle one too.

[@CulturedThugPoster]

If it isn't in the book then it isn't cannon or lore.

[@CulturedThugPoster]

@Aden Diaz MY point is that because the author didn't choose to create a Harkonen human spider the inclusion by Vilneueve of it is an insult. It could just as easily been replaced with some other symboliccharacter like Lynch did using the heart plugs and the surgeon.

[@dafiltafish]

My thoughts exactly.

[@seanthompson9163]

My thoughts exactly. Living recording device hidden as a grotesque pet/amusement device from the dirty Bene Tlielax.

[@seraphik]

the reverend mother's dry "it understands" was my favorite thing about the whole movie. Charlotte Rampling was on screen for probably a total of 3 minutes but she stole every second.

[@LAZER904]

She was fearless and even in Baron's home called the shots lol

[@alvakaren1]

I love Charlotte Rampling. I just saw a TV series called DNA. There she acted like a veteran French policewoman. She was amazing.

[@ibnsabeel9466]

I thought she was really good in Dexter.

[@MORONIKABLASTER]

Nobody will remember theses actors

[@ChipBadLuck13]

Strange take

[@alanmckinnon6791]

I think it is simply nothing more than an effective device to show in 5 seconds how deplorable the Harkonnens are. In the book, Herbert reinforces this over and over again by describing their actions and giving insights into the Baron's thoughts, up to demanding on a whim that Feyd slaughter all 100 female slaves in his favourite brothel. Denis did not have that many screen seconds to build revulsion in the viewer, this does it in 5 seconds. If you want to go deeper, it might be to show Baron's disdain for the Reverend Mother. She has influence and clout, but he has the Emperor's participation in the plan to remove Atreides, and that gives back to the Baron Arrakis and the spice. He could easily consider the Bene Gesserit to now be a neutralized threat and can now flaunt his true nature.

[@dbell1016]

I agree that the spider was a devise that served the purpose you said, but you're wrong when you suggest the baron ordered Feyd to kill the slaves in his harem on a whim. It was a carefully considered punishment after Feyd's attempt on the baron's life. The baron, after surviving the attempt, deduced its entire nature and ordered the harem master killed, then ordered Feyd to kill every slave in his harem with his own hands (Its tough to be a slave) since he couldn't be sure which other slaves had also been modified. The baron was shrewd, intelligent, and evil and this scene shows all of that at work. Also, it was Feyd's own harem not a brothel, and I never got the impression that all of Feyd's sex slaves were female. The baron was into young boys and Feyd may have taken after his uncle to a lesser degree.

[@DutyOutpostAtGarbage]

It's a definite show of power to the Reverend Mother.

[@alanmckinnon6791]

@@dbell1016 you are quite correct about the harem, I had forgotten the details

[@cloverazar5315]

I agree with this analysis; it’s a wonderful method of visual shorthand to convey a really ugly idea. If movies are about showing us… that was an exceptionally creepy and uncomfortable way to do it, even to an audience member who might have no idea of the lore. However, we also know that the Reverend Mother and the Baron *loathe* each other, and have a long and ugly history. If this is a power play by the Baron - which it might well be, given that the Baron has just been given Imperial permission to annihilate one of the Landsraad’s Great Houses, whom the Bene Gesserit have spent the past ten millennia husbanding - this makes perfect sense. He’s showing her abominations, and perpetrating abominations, and she can’t do a thing about it. Given his sadistic nature and their history together, I can see that as entirely within his character. But of course this is all conjecture and it could just be Rule of Cool - and cool it was. That thing’s creepy af

[@mark261166]

I agree, it's there to show how vile the Harkonnens are.

[@mta110]

When I saw the creature on film, it seemed almost like the Harkonenns were taunting Mohaim with it, basically saying "we know our position is so strong that we can get away with blasphemy and we don't even need to hide it anymore."

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

If the Bene Gesserit would even care, that is.

[@mta110]

@@heiniknallkopp9688 Mohaim's totally unfazed response in that scene was almost equally chilling.

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

@@mta110 Because she already knows for Years what kind of Person Vladimir is.

[@BronzeRivet]

100%.

[@AnnaBellaChannel]

@@heiniknallkopp9688 She has the personal experience of what he is like.

[@polsigerson1037]

It is a person, most likely a prisoner who has been made in an Axolotl tank as an abomination. It is aware of itself, it has all the memories of who it was, almost certain to remember its death or deaths and everything that the Baron has done to it through its many trials and deaths. The reason I think it is intelligent is that the Voice only works on humans. If it worked on animals, the Bene Gesserit would run Arrakis simply by commanding the Worms to leave the Spice harvesters alone. And so making spice production a 24 hour a day undertaking, and not the hit and run enterprise it currently is. Oh and allowing in the room With RMGHM is a calculated insult, she is in collusion with the Hrakonens, so can not speak about the Blasphemy she sees when she is conspiring. She is complicit, and the abomination shows the contempt the Harkonnens have for her and all Bene Gesserit.

[@enriquedelayeurrea3451]

I'm gonna come upfront and say this creature was my single favorite detour the movie took from the book. While it would be outrageous to show this creature to Mother Helen Mohiam in the novels. In the context of the film it serves so many purposes in just a few seconds: - It shows the depravity of the Harkonnen (in a pg-13 friendly way) - It shows the true power of Mohiam and the voice - It foreshadows the Tleilaxu, so that you can accept it at the start of Messiah - In this context (which I beg, needs to be a bit simpler than the novels) it works as a power move from the Baron to the Reverend Mother and a direct mind game. - It tells viewers that this is a darker sci-fi story to what we are used to - It gives the Baron a threatening atmosphere - And if it's Yueh's wife, it makes the movie even more nightmareish.

[@machinech183]

Given the Tleilaxu, it's still entirely possible it's not only Yueh's wife, but that she isn't technically dead. More like repurposed, as was their specialty and pleasure. Either way it was worth every effort given the amount of imagination it sparked. I don't mind departures from the books like this so long as they don't run wild with them to the point of detracting from the story or throwing long establish lore into modern day silliness for the sake of shock value (a too common trend that's ruined a fair number of works).

[@thecrimsonfuckeralucardlor5087]

It was a spy or something which is why he pretended it didn't understand but she seen through it and order it to leave and he reacted like he knew he was caught.

[@srbrant5391]

A genius way of showing, not telling.

[@johnq.publik9005]

Well said. I believe that perfectly covers it.

[@rolandmeyer3729]

10/10 🏆

[@jamesoloughlin]

I cared way too much about this. Thanks for diving in.

[@RVS789]

Yesssss, haha

[@dantan1249]

Me too. Lol

[@imgeorge81n]

For real

[@traveler263]

I still think it's a Chair Dog. I think I read that in book 5 or 6 and it confused the hell out of me

[@jon1819]

She won’t accept the spider but references Brian Herbert lmao

[@GodlordBazi]

This scene is easy to explain. When the Reverend Mother says that "the thing must leave", she is assured by Piter that their pet doesn't understand their language, but when the Mother tells this creature to leave, it does as she commands. The Mother then says, "It understands." and Piter makes this kind of embarrassed face, since their pet's obedience was proof for the fact that it had been a Bene Tleilax spy all along. This is no surprise actually, since the Tleilaxu are known for spying on pretty much everyone in the known galaxy, it was just a shameful display for the arguably most powerful house in the empire to be tricked so easily by them, while the Mother figured out what's the deal with this creature within the first two seconds of entering the room. The explaination that showing off that Tleilaxu creature as a kind of powerplay is somewhat faulty. It is a common thing for the rich in the Dune universe to buy "living goods" from the Bene Tleilax to show off their wealth, just like people do it in the real world with rare animal breeds. In this case, there's actually absolutely no need for showing the Reverend Mother the Harkonnen's wealth. Everyone in the whole empire knows that the control of the entire spice trade has made the Harkonnen filthy rich.

[@graphite2786]

Great explanation. Also the "Spider is Wanna" theory is pretty laughable. As a Bene Gesseritt, Wanna could control her immune system to such an extent, she could literally dissolve her DNA and nervous system with it. It was why the Bene Tleilax could never clone or make a ghola out of the Sisterhood. They could literally self destruct.

[@GodlordBazi]

@@graphite2786 Yeah, exactly. When I saw another video of this scene right here and scrolled down to the comments, about 80% of all the people down there were convinced that this thing would be Wanna. My brain got instantly flooded with about 10.000 reasons why this is the dumbest theory about the Dune movie I've ever heard of.

[@graphite2786]

@@GodlordBazi .People are always looking for plot twists. Because it's an overused trope in virtually every anime, young adult film and blockbuster franchise, people expect them. I do like it's inclusion tho and i like your theory. The question is, why that particular design? If you look at the original Dune Encyclopaedia's cover (1984) to the right of the Fremen priest, you'll see an odd creature which the Spiderman resembles. ( Google it!) The other thing it could be is a tongue in cheek pun on the MCU....( See the above sentence)

[@fallinginthed33p]

Maybe we'll see chairdogs in later Dune movies.

[@lXlElevatorlXl]

Looks like s Bug not Spider

[@MRptwrench]

No, the impression I got when I first viewed the Pet was "omg. It has a butt."

[@Ilfrinco]

a challenging wank

[@basedsketch4133]

How else do people have babies

[@TRSmith-xb9dg]

The fact that the Reverend Mother uses the word "thing" to refer to the pet makes me think it was made by the dirty Tleilaxu.

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

Most likely, since they are the go to when it comes to Gholas and other stuff involving genetics.

[@earlware4322]

In the few seconds this "thing" was onscreen I knew it was something made just for the film as there was nothing like it in the books. (At least the books that I read.) My second thought on seeing this was that it was, at least partly, human. Or was once human at some point. I could only assume that it was a Tleilaxian creation, a twisted plaything for the Baron. As such, it made no sense to show it off to the Reverend Mother. The Baron is too smart and devious to risk a possible confrontation with the Bene Gessuit. Remember, "there are plans within plans", despite having the Emperor's support in attacking House Atreides the Baron could not afford to risk the ire of the Sisterhood. He may despise Mohaim and look down on her privately, but to her face he would have been nothing if not civil. At least for the sake of appearences.

[@Rosie-yt8nd]

the creature feels wrong, like an abomination. it shows the Harkonens have no ethical boundaries. The Reverent Mother sending it away shows her superiority. The Baron thinking it can't understand them shows that 1) he thinks he knows everything but thats not true. he is actually no the smartest player on the board. still to be feared to. 2) he underestimates the Reverent Mother. the creature is just the device to do it. about yue's wife: i think torture can be worse than death. its merciful to just let her die instead of enduring whatever depravity the harkonnens think of. even if her heart is still beating, she is dead in any way that is meaningful because this is not a life or sth she'll recover from

[@littleblizzard7591]

Agree and agree

[@haitaelpastor976]

The Baron would never miss such a detail. What's depicted in this movie is not Baron Harkonnen, just a plain villain used as a token.

[@nadiamond]

Definitely a creation of the Tleilaxu, this is right up their ally, genetically engineering things, they created it, but its probably something thought up by the Baron himself, and put to the Tleilaxu to make.

[@renatawilliams09]

Agreed

[@thaynmoore4997]

It reminded me of the chairdogs, which some bene gesserit used and others rejected as unnatural.

[@erikbjelke4411]

I can see the scene playing out sensibly, in the "plans within plans" theme of especially the first book. Baron Harkonnen knows that this thing is something objectionable to the Reverend Mother, so deliberately puts them in the same room to see how she reacts, and because his star is on the rise and he's in a secret alliance with the Emperor, but she is still the Emperor's representative, so depending on her reactions, he can gauge just how much the Emperor thinks he needs the Baron versus how prepared he is to dispose of the Baron once his usefulness is at an end (if memory serves, the Baron and the Emperor both knew that sooner or later one would come for the other, and were planning to both strike first and defend themselves in case one struck before the other). The Reverend Mother, for her part, probably knows this is exactly what the Baron intends, so has to decide exactly how much she wants to give away based on what the Emperor wants her to do and the Bene Gesserit's own interests in the whole situation. Basically, a big game of "I know you know I know, but do you know that I know that you know that I know?" All played out in about a minute.

[@michaelsnedker5446]

this makes the most sense. i believe you nailed it

[@doomguy9049]

Lawgic traps within lawgic traps

[@daleheller6803]

That is a beautiful analysis well written and well thought out

[@paulj8726]

Wonderfull analysis. Not only are the Harkonnens sick sobs, they know how to play very good political chess games.

[@fallinginthed33p]

Count Fenring also plays multi-D political chess. The book is an interesting look at court politics and how they're still applicable today.

[@danielk3832]

I think it's worth mentioning that Mohiam and the Baron are very familiar with eachother. Having a Tleilaxu thing in the room is exactly the kind of subtle middle finger Vladimir would do here.

[@bjockers]

The Spider was there so the Baron could make the Reverend Mother uncomfortable (and off-balance) and to demonstrate his power and that he could flaunt the laws of the Imperium. I don't consider BH and KJA cannon especially when they contradict FH, which they do with the Baron being blackmailed.

[@debbiethompson3123]

This creature scared me a lot!!! Even though it was only shown a short time, it really stuck in my mind! I did not realize it had human hands. So gruesome !!!

[@glennbond8266]

A total nightmare. You wouldn’t want that thing to be creeping into your bedroom at night!

[@micwclar]

Don't forget why the Reverend Mother was there, plotting against another Great House. How could the Reverend Mother talk about this travesty without also implicating her and the Emperor? The Baron was doing this to show his contempt towards the Reverend Mother specifically and the Emperor obliquely.

[@tigerpjm]

Couldn't agree more! Never thought of the spider being there for the express purpose of compromising the Recerend Mother, but it's an idea that I reckon has a lot of merit.

[@TC-be7kx]

yea and she can't tell the truth to the emperor, because that would indebt her in the lie of helping the Atreides bloodline, she is trapped. and the Baron knows this.

[@lewismassie]

I once read something about how horror writers have two kinds of creatures that look like something familiar to us, but they differ in that with one, it's the familiar features that stick out of the monstrosity that scare us, and the other that the monstrosity sticking out of the features that we recognise that scare us. This creature is very much the first, with the human hands being the only recognisable feature and that being the one that unsettles us

[@jolukegiles]

but also a kinda human woman behind area?

[@jolukegiles]

I've read all the books a while ago, as I remember it this is pretty tame in terms of horror

[@PedroRodrigues-fh1ku]

It's called umheillich (probably spelt wrong) it's a german term that is similar to uncanny. Something familiar but in a diferent context that makes you unconfortable, suspicious. Freud discussea that on his book with the same name. Jt's a concept used in horrr all the time, and also in visual arts

[@robertluna5737]

If you watch Denis villeneuve‘s film “Enemy”, he also uses spiders in his narrative. I think it’s more of a personal insert than anything. Perhaps he is fearful and repulsed by them and wanted to convey that for the Harkonnens.

[@RuiCBGLima]

The heptapods in Arrival also resemble this a bit. Not sure if he's fearful, but surely seams a bit of theme going on

[@justinklenk]

Very good points, all above. ✅👍 🤔...

[@simonjacksons]

@@RuiCBGLima I think for Denis the heptapods are for the same purpose as the worms in Dune it's more of a religious experience, something that might evoke a trembling wonder at first but I wouldn't exactly say fear.

[@snikrepak]

Spiders? Scary? Lol wtf

[@kptmaci4979]

@@snikrepak intimidating 6 year old logged on to show how he doesnt have arachnophobia and pretends to be suprised when others are, as he is superior due to his lack of fear of spiders. Lmao. Touch some grass kid

[@filmandpage1138]

I like the inclusion of it, and Denis Villeneuve always puts a spider in some way in all his films. It's like a trade mark. Also I hope they keep it a mystery, because it makes for a nice little discussion point.

[@mondsgesandter]

That makes me interested if he does it to cope with trauma or fear of spiders, the same way Tolkien is speculated to have done

[@marcussymons2172]

Where was the spider in 2049?

[@filmandpage1138]

@@marcussymons2172 Good question.

[@lab483]

I think showing the reverend mother the spider creature is more of a powerplay than carelessness. It informs her that we (Harkonens) know you are aware of our Bene Tilax connections, and it does not concern us. Indeed the reverend mother Mohiam played the role of supplicant requesting Paul and Jessica be spared so the Baron's powerplay goes to highlight his largess is acceding to her request. Also much of the Bene Gesserit's power is covert so the Baron perhaps should not be expected to understand he is playing with fire and such powerplays would be entirely transparent to a reverend mother.

[@tigerpjm]

Spot on. I think it's the Baron waving his disdain for the Bene Gesserit in Mohiam's face. He understands perfectly well how offensive she will find the creature, and it is there for that purpose.

[@justinklenk]

Yes, I second (okay, third) that - and how well put. Leveraging largess would make Machiavelli proud. ✅😂

[@cthulawha]

@@tigerpjm seeing as how the Baron raped Mohiam to father Jessica in the first place , anything he does in regards to her is motivated by his hatred of her, she infected him with the disease that causes his obesity in revenge for his rape of her during the act, as all Bene Gesserits harbor multiple diseases within themselves and can choose if and when to allow themselves to become infectious through their superior control of their bodies, Dr Yueh is the Suk who determined the nature and origin of the disease the Baron has before Yueh became bound to House Atreides

[@tigerpjm]

@@cthulawha That didn't happen... God it was like Brian never read his own father's books!

[@cthulawha]

@@tigerpjm dude it happened in the House Harkonnan book , and Brian Herbert had access to all his father's notes and wrote several books with him and even proof read the chapter house dune novel. Are you trying to say Brian had no working knowledge of his father's vision lol. For Alia's sweet sake a great portion of his son's Dune novels are directly from Frank's notes and finished the Dune saga the way Frank always intended with Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune which Frank was outlining and fleshing out when he died in 86

[@jamesmaples1255]

It reminded me of how the thinking machines in Brian's books experimented on humans, removing limbs from one person and placing them on someone else. It feels like something Brian would add, perhaps with the intent of revealing more of the sadistic nature of the Baron.

[@tigerpjm]

Brian's books are utter garbage that should be totally ignored

[@mich722]

@@tigerpjm I view them as an alternate timeline. Not part of the original story.

[@joer1402]

I can see the logic behind this creature being a questionable addition to the storyline. But it didn't impact me either way while watching the movie, and it did serve to rubber-stamp the Barons creepiness and create some mystery. Personally, I didn't make the connection between the creature and the Doctor Yueh's wife.

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

Same here, because Vladimir straight up shows what happened to her by killing Yueh. Edit: And this version of Pieter is way too... rational for my taste. The Baron twisted his Mind which doesnt show here.

[@constantine6464]

agreed

[@dmitrypiskarev4574]

I have no problem with reverend mother seeing the spider, because despite being outrageous by regular standards, she is way above regular. The whole scene where the spider appears focuses on baron and reverend mother discussing matters that are beyond common morality and principles, just like the spider is. Incest is a taboo, yet bene gesserit would not think twice if it would be required to save the Kwisatz Haderach bloodline. My theory is: from the book I had a feeling that Yue's betrayal was assisted by bene gesserit through Yue's wife - she had the power to make him love her beyond all reason, and tought him enough not to get cought, and then she was sacrificed to Harkonnens for the plan to be concluded. So reverend mother is probably aware of all of this, and there is no reason to hide anything from her. She is still disgusted by all this, but would not let it lead her astray from the greater plan.

[@italinboiistudios5246]

Your theory about yuehs wife is fucking genius.

[@judysmith-randle1558]

Genius..agree!

[@auto117666]

I saw the spider and thought, "Well, I will take this over milking a hairless cat..."

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

And its Ass doesnt even look that bad. x)

[@reyperry2605]

I believe the creature is intended to sidestep the biggest "modern" problem with the novel: in the book, the Baron's sexual depravity is homosexual in nature. The creature gives him a kink we can feel comfortable shaming

[@EloSportsTalk]

I mean, he's specifically a pedophile......i hope we can still disapprove of those people

[@reyperry2605]

He uses Alia to have sex with adult males, IIRC. And part and parcel of old school homophobia was that they were ALL pedophiles.

[@EloSportsTalk]

@@reyperry2605 But my point is he had a kink that we are very comfortable shaming and rightfully so, being a pedo. So to me making it a sidestepping of that because of discomfort in disapproving doesn't track. However, not having pedophilia keeps it from being R so perhaps that is why.

[@reyperry2605]

I see your point and perhaps need to do a better job making mine: in a film where so much has to be shorthanded, it's easier giving us a sex varmint than clarifying that his boy toys aren't old enough. Indeed, IF the only homosexuality depicted in the film IS pederasty, the message is perilously mixed. I hope that clarifies things.

[@technofilejr3401]

The Baron is also pederastic and incestous. His actions towards Feyd and his fantasies about Paul are shocking. Glad that they didn’t show it in the movie.

[@pac1fic055]

I think it was a vehicle to show the Baron’s depravity, and at the same time his total disdain for the Bene Gesserit in general and the Reverend Mother in particular.

[@generaljm7560]

I believe that showing the creature, even acknowledging what you said is true can be useful to The Baron despite the surface level implications. Remember, even the books acknowledge that telling the truth can mislead, misdirect or cover another lie. Remember, “plans within plans within plans”.

[@lsporter88]

There is indeed something very wrong with House Harkonnen. Great video.

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

They had some bro tier guys once, but that was at least one generation before Vladimir took over.

[@marinoseys2908]

Denis Villeneuve's vision on Dune keeps on giving! Frank Herbert would be very proud, so many details and gems from the book are so well balanced and refined woven into this movie. And I think, if indeed it is the case the spider is inspired by this imagery, Alejandro Jodorowsky must be honored too.

[@nickr7080]

I think it serves the directors intent to shock the audience in the extremes of harkonnens and the story line of showing the baron does not fear the empire

[@janette2422]

this is what I love about this channel. it takes what was maybe 20 seconds and rips it apart so cleanly and concisely of why it was a bad idea but ultimately understands what it was going for...you are an amazing person.

[@leo99990]

Maybe the spider was a kinky play thing for the Baron ? The "cone of silence" from the same scene gave me "Get Smart" flashbacks .

[@Damidas]

It did have a booty.. you never know

[@Buster_Piles]

Yeh. He's pumping it.

[@jamessellers6276]

Living fleshlight.

[@hogs0war]

As others have said, it is there to show how depraved and evil the Harkonnen's are. I personally thought it was there as a way for the Harkonnen's to test the Reverend Mother and her use of The Voice. I think it is being fielded against the Reverend Mother to see if it is a viable weapon against The Voice and seeing as it failed the field test it is back to the drawing board. Perhaps it would then be used against the slaves for the Harkonnen's amusement.

[@roboslug7582]

Nah, that spider thingy is just the evolved form of either a used car salesman, pharma executive or IRS agent. Those are the only living things in the universe that could have evolved into something so wretched and vile.

[@chrisarcher6972]

In the case of a pharma exec, it'd be a step UP the evolutionary ladder...

[@roboslug7582]

RussOlson-nk3wc Is that so? As long as we're making outrageously stretched assumptions based on cursory comments, I take it that you believe a country can just work without due process and personal property rights, correct? I take it that totalitarian dictatorship is your preferred government?

[@roboslug7582]

@RussOlson-nk3wc Awesome, if your claim is so "grounded", by all means, show me the surveys/studies that demonstrate that Americans "commonly believe a country can just work without taxes". Incidentally, I'm not AnCap at all. Left-leaning moderate, somewhere around -2,-1.5 on PoliticalCompass. But that's neither here nor there. Your initial comment was a hyperbolic statement with no basis in reality, clearly in response to my sarcastic quip about IRS agents being vile creatures. No mainstream political faction is asserting that a country can run without taxes. Maybe a few fringe groups, but certainly not enough to qualify as "common". So I responded with an equally hyperbolic statement about totalitarian dictatorship, since that's about the best way to describe the nearly unrestrained power that the IRS has. They're one of the few agencies that can just accuse you and enforce penalties without any due process or burden of proof, and they have abused that numerous times. That's why I consider them vile. It has nothing to do with thinking the country can run without taxes, and everything to do with the belief that people have a right to due process before they should be subjected to property seizure or imprisonment. So, do you disagree with that?

[@garyhendrie4001]

Politician scum anyone

[@AgentExeider]

The fact that the Reverend Mother was there for ulterior motives means he felt he could probably do it, since she wasn't supposed to be there. In fact I would go so far as think he made sure the spider was there BECAUSE the Reverend Mother would be, just so he could see her reaction because he knew she wasn't in a position to object or threaten to tell anyone, since she would have to also reveal the circumstances on how she ran int it, and why she was on Geidi Prime in the first place, and the Baron knew this. The Baron likes to rub his obscenities into people's faces especially when he knows he can get away with it, to remind them they are not as good and innocent as they think they are, that everyone is just as bad, evil and obscene as he is, the difference is he doesn't try to hide it or pretend that he isn't these things. In a way the Baron is more truthful than anyone else in the story.

[@TheCritic-MMA]

Great point about Mohaim not recognizing Wanna, and the other big problem with the Wanna theory for the spider is that the Bene Tleilax have much more important uses for a Bene Gesserit as axlotl tanks which I understand is mentioned in the later books.

[@genmaicha.lapsang]

They would have LOVED to have a Bene Gesserit back in this era but they never did.

[@theturquoisedream9244]

Yayyy!!! Dune cookies for lunchtime! Fabulous!

[@darklessian]

Harkonen's machinations through Part One makes me think showing the spider to a reverend mother was deliberate. Maybe they are trying to use it to lure/capture a Bene Geserit for Tleilaxolotl-ing

[@london_james]

Explain how that works please

[@treydixon5399]

I also think it was deliberate, for different reason. I took the creature's presence to be an attempt by the Baron to shock and upset the Rev Mother, for whom he would have intense dislike. I think he would have enjoyed any reaction he could get out of her.

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

@@treydixon5399 That kind of sounds like the Baron and he has such a kink, but that is more about other people finding Vladimir himself disgusting. ...well okay, this would work in a non physical way, so the Rev seeing him as a sick fuck, but then again she does that already, since he raped her some time ago.

[@woodoven]

I hope there’s way more trippy insane like this stuff coming.

[@projectinlinesix]

I like to think of this situation as a dark 'power move' on the part of The Barron. He knew that the Reverend Mother would strongly suspect that the spider creature was created from Yue's wife, but she wouldn't be able to prove it because the creature was so heavily modified. Tacitly thumbing his nose at her, or maybe, a thinly veiled threat.

[@crypto1223]

I honestly didn’t put too much thought into that thing. I just assumed they had those things crawling around the planet. As either mutants or exported creatures from another planet.

[@ellyjett]

Oh I definitely wondered about it (so creepy to me) but that was my first thought as well, local wildlife turned pet. Or perhaps modified like designer dogs.

[@chriswolfe403]

At 9 minutes of supposition for a 5 second throw away scene, this movie is a cash cow for you. Requesting another 9 minutes of what the implications are to wearing your nasal moisture catch over your left ear rather than right ear.

[@robertsosna3557]

It would be an interesting way to introduce the Bene Tleilax. As they weren't mentioned openly by the characters in Part 1. I would like to see how it is used in Part 2. As a possible weapon against the Bene Gesserit. Particularly Reverend Mohaimin. She was one of the characters that weren't used much in either the book or the movie.

[@mattromero9797]

The idea of human experimentation makes this cinematic Dune trilogy all the more dark. And I don’t mind it :)

[@dirkmaes3786]

One short scene that tells us a lot about the Baron's shrewdness and on what level he's playing the game. He created this situation to probe for weaknesses: how she reacted in the situation gives away a lot about her as a leader. Also they might have hoped to learn some secrets about the voice - it could simply be test to see if would work on such an abomination - even if she looked slightly worried that it didn't would already give away something useful.

[@NickSwe]

To me it was made to show how powerful the voice of the Bene Gesserit was, the creature didn't even understood our language yet when a command was given to it with the voice, it did as it was told.

[@marknovak6498]

Deepens the darkness of the villain. It brings torture to a level unique to a dark sci-fi future.

[@jml4000]

When I first saw this scene, the spider struck me as a creature that wouldn't have looked out of place in any of the Alien movies. Then I learned that apparently Alejandro Jodorowsky's hired H.R Giger to develop some of the concept art for his unsuccessful yet legendary attempt to make a Dune movie in the 1970's. It seems to me like a little homage to both artists.

[@martinharris5017]

It was Jodorowsky who introduced Giger to Dan O Bannon, the writer of Alien. Giser was unknown outside of art circles at that time, and it was Salvador Dali who made him known to Jodorowsky. When Dune collapsed, O'Bannon dearly wanted Giger to design his monster for Alien. He introduced Giger's work to Ridley Scott and Scott was sold. Thus did Giger become a celebrity!

[@Jagonath]

I assumed this was Dr Yuei's wife. Gurney has already set up that the "Harkonnes are brutal! They aren't human!" Dr Yeui himself talks about how they kidnapped his wife and: "Took her apart... like a doll..." and when he completes his treachery he says to the Baron that he did it "To relieve her agony..." Also, the witch proves that "it" understands voices... therefore it's probably human. But maybe it's something else. For a movie at least, I think my theory seems more self-contained, to be honest :) Sure, it could be a hidden reference to a Crixa Kratel Space Loredette Oid-class sub-gamma Light Chaser... but who would actually care?

[@obelix703]

“Kids love Spider-Man, why not give him a cameo?” -Denis Villeneuve

[@Uulfinn]

I think it truly is just a pet, some animal that was brought to their planet. To me it shows that even the things Harkonnens might consider cute or endearing would look alien and horrifying to outsiders.

[@michaelthomas5433]

I like to think that that human-spider is the one thing that Baron Harkonen loved beside himself.

[@silvertemplar8061]

Maybe it’s to illustrate the power of the Harkonnens; this being a more insightfully complex cruelty of torturing someone into a bestial state. I heard the Mandalorian Crusaders in Star Wars tortured a lizard-like species called the Basilikskans so badly, that they degenerated into a primitive state, and never regained sentience.

[@AnnatarCarvour]

Didn't they ride the Basilisk war beasts ??

[@silvertemplar8061]

@@AnnatarCarvour Yes, and their war droids as well. They tortured the basiliskans so badly they devolved into a primal state, and never regained sentience.

[@AnnatarCarvour]

@@silvertemplar8061 speaking to my soul..two favorite sci fi franchises though I think I like Dune more there would be no Star Wars without Dune Lucas himself borrowed alot from it.. Love both can't wait for next couple Dune movies I believe there is going to be part 2 then Dune Messiah

[@greensoplenty6809]

im guessing the emperor would turn a blind eye to human experiments that might be able to create their own navigators at some point and break the guilds monopoly

[@12oshinko]

I really enjoy your analyses. I wonder if Mohiam would simply see through the attempt to unsettle her and use composure to sour the Baron's enjoyment. In Heretics, Lucilla seems to use composure in such a way towards Dama.

[@sagan1976]

Well... i kinda always thought of the human spider presence as a huge "fuck you" by the Harkonnen to the Bene Gesserit. And there's another hint at that, regarding the later books by Brian Herbert in that scene. When Vladimir says "We would never think of violating the sanctity of your Order".

[@Pentagon6519]

Or instead of genetic modification maybe a tortured prisoner which had been surgically modified with say their loved ones arms grafted on as extra torture

[@Daigham23]

I am with you on who it is, yet how it happened is incredibly interesting to ponder about. Lovely video, really top notch. Thank you so much as always!

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

Hi Elaine, Been a subscriber for over a year now and thoroughly enjoy your videos. I've been a fan of the Dune original movie and remake plus miniseries but never read the books until now. I haven't seen the new movie yet, but will as soon as I read all these Dune books. I started "God Emperor Dune" yesterday and thoroughly enjoying it like the previous three. Even though I liked the movie and miniseries, Dune was always a strange animal, but after reading the books, everything makes sense now that everything has the context from the books to explain what's going on in the story that's sadly missing in the movie and miniseries. I heard a long time ago about the similarity between Dune and Star Wars, but even after watching the first movie I felt both were completely different stories that simply shared a few common names and themes. I've been keeping a tally of all the similarities I've found and it's a rather long list and keeps growing, but I still think both stories are completely different. I've noticed a few similarities with "Foundation" also and don't have a problem with that since Asimov didn't have a problem with people being inspired by his work just like he was inspired by others also in his work. I don't know if you've made a video about the similarities, but I would be very interested in it if you do. The thing I like most about Dune is the consistency in the story and only a few books to tell that story which is something I can't say about other franchises with hundreds of books and almost as many authors putting their own twist on the story. I'm looking forward to reading Brian Herbert's novels also, and hopefully he stays with his father's vision. Great video as always and here's your big fat thumbs up and a tickle for the algorithm. 👍✨

[@bigbitehood1353]

I'm so glad you're covering this

[@wills.8662]

It was a secret cameo by Christian Bale who brought a new level to his physical transformations

[@OdintheGermanShepherd]

Definitely something strange going on there!!

[@billystaggsjr.3465]

Could be that The Reverend Mother did realize the nature of the pet. But it would tip her hand about seeing Paul and what she suspects. She keeps secrets from the Emperor.

[@falstoffe]

It's not Yueh's wife, because Feyd does not know who the traitor is. Feyd-Rautha : And who is this, traitor? Baron Harkonnen : I won't tell you who the traitor is, or when we'll attack. If Feyd does not know of Yueh, then he doesn't know of Yueh's wife.

[@trevorgraham4373]

I find your insight into Dune so enjoyable. With this interesting and exciting look into the different aspects of Dune its lore and intriguing concepts. I have found myself again a happy captive of the Dune books and films. As for the human spider could we look apon it in the way that a wicked child would flont a stolen toy in front of a parent. Knowing that it is so wrong to do so , but needs to feel the thrill of doing so no matter the consequences.

[@immortalsofar5314]

I can't speak for other writers (_any_ other writers) but in Frank Herbert's writing all high level interaction was about control and any meeting such as this would have been carefully choreographed. Retrofitting here but exposing the Reverend Mother to the creature might have been an effort to show the limits of her control - its existence, the fact that there was nothing she could do about it and that it was under Harkonen control and (they assumed) she had no power over it. Her dismissal in return demonstrated that they had underestimated the sisterhood. Then again, that demonstration also laid bare some more of the workings of the voice so that was a plus, albeit perhaps salvaged, for the Baron.

[@emilyanne9090]

I feel like this is a nod to the Lynch “Dune”, where the Harkonens cut people up without a second though. In the Lynch version, Baron Harkonen is very obviously a parody of the Roman emperor Caligula, and his personal Doctor is a Mengele-like obsessive who feels “blessed” to clean the Baron’s diseased skin.

[@hindentanicdisaster9874]

Amusingly, there is a scene in the History Channel's 2013 TV miniseries "The Bible" showing Roman client King Herod the Great which is very obviously a parody of David Lynch's Baron Harkonnen, complete with doctors treating his gluttinous body horror sores while he rants and raves about his cleanliness before killing the Birdmen. Only Sting and the heart plugs were missing. The series had other such obviously deliberately ironic or wacky references--Satan was portrayed by a lookalike of President Barack Obama, while the angels attacked by the Sodomites are Asian Kung-Fu Jedi.

[@emilyanne9090]

@@hindentanicdisaster9874 thank you for that, I’m going to watch it, it sounds HILARIOUS. There’s got to be a drinking game in there somewhere…

[@Hopscotchlemonadespritz]

The scene implicitly introduces body horror in a movie bereft of shock, if not awe

[@BuxarooBanzai]

I thought that the part with Yeuh was a nod to Jodorowsky in his own screenplay where the Baron tore Leto's limbs one by one. And I think ofc the spider, as she mentioned in the first part of the video, is a nod to Jodorowsky as well, but also Bene Tleilax. Just my 2 cents. Love the video. Need Cookies is one of my favorite creators.

[@Jared_Wignall]

These Dune videos are very interesting. Keep up the great work Elaine!

[@dwightgaston6079]

Not Wanna but certainly a Teilaxu creation. This could be a feint within a feint that the Baron is fond of: a deliberate insult to Mohiam yet implying a message that the Baron is not dependent on the Bene Gesserit and indeed, has other weapons and allies in its arsenal.

[@TheTonyMcD]

I agree with basically everything you said. I love the creature, the design, the implied notion that it is in fact what became of Marcus' wife. It fits into the universe very well imo, and does a great job at visually showing the depravity and extreme opulence of the Harkonnens. But, as you said, they way they portrayed it with the Mother Superior of the Bene Gesserit does not fit with established lore.

[@TC-be7kx]

she is there on a secret mission, if she tells the emperor about the spider, then the baron will simply say, they were discussing saving he atreides. it's a stronghold lie, so she must not compromise herself, even though she knows.

[@matthewmckinney5387]

I feel the reverend mother knew exactly what the creature was. And by using the voice on it , showed Vladimir that she knew. I dont think that it being there and her knowing what it was would have had any impact other than Vladimir showing her that he doesn't care about the religion. I feel it was a good addition to the movie and have always assumed they had creatures like this in the dune universe especially from the harkonnen and the bene tlilax

[@ech0828]

This creature used to be Yuehs wife. You can feel it when it's first on screen. Changed and transformed into a product of misery and suffering. The mother's milk of all Harkonens.

[@watulooknat770]

Source: “I can just feel it lol”

[@scorpionregent648]

Having the creature present when the reverend mother entered was a act of thinly veiled contempt and also a display of Baron's arrogance and control. He knew what affect the creature would have on her and he had it there to provoke a response and to drive home the point it's his planet, his house, his rules and his pet. Of course the fact that he would even have such a obscene thing speaks volumes. The Reverend Mother instantly sabotaged the Baron's ploy buy commanding the creature away. It had no part to play in their discussion and being a possible instrument of surveillance, she had every reason for it to be gone. She made no display of emotion as it would only be construed as weakness. Piter states it doesn't understand and she proves it does. As a truth-sayer she could have known if Piter was lying to her and he was aware of that point. He believed the creature was oblivious. She exposed his failure. It must be a terrify thing for a mentat to be proven wrong. There is no sign that the Baron even noticed, so that would indicated there are subtle things that escape his notice. Reverend mother Giaus Helen Mohiam was the smartest person in the room.

[@bdso9593]

I think the creature was just placed there to show the fetish-like dark side of the Baron. Much like the A-sexual music player with rubber restricted fingers, or the rubber clad clean up crew that goes in after the poison tooth episode. All very bizarre.

[@bernbsy]

The notion that it's Wanda, Yueh;s wife, is so depraved....I Love it!

[@stephaneclerici9018]

First thanks for this very insightful video and depth analysis ! Denis villeneuve is very close to the book in his personal adaptation. and his own additions are all the more brilliant ! Like this dehumanized spider creature. immediately thought of one more benetleilax artifact, but the hypothesis raised in this video is even more chilling ! Destroying a human being, degrading her to the point of depriving her of all humanity, through torture and vivisection, make me tremble with disgust ! And if it turns out to be correct, what irony when the baron tells the doctor that he will soon be joining his beloved! the same fate surely awaits him ! Likewise the initiation ceremony of the Sardaukers warriors, with what looks like the worst human sacrifices practiced by the Mayans. It's cold, inhuman and extremely disturbing (a scene that does not appear in the original book, unless I'm mistaken). We even do not know if they are prisoners, recruits who have failed or ... volunteers ! After all, only the coldness of this moment matters ! And Denis villeneuve does knows how to create deeply disturbing and revolting scenes, like the one in Blade runner 2049, where Wallace witnesses the birth of one of his creatures in blade runner 2049 and guts her in a emotionless way; There is no more spirit, no more limits. Only matter, only energy, only resources... The universe of Dune (whether original or adapted) is but a sad and realistic painting of humanity's greed for possessions, contempt for life, and lust for power today. And the importance of ecology, as a subtopic, a watermark, and our contempt for what is most sacred in life, is even more highlighted. A true autopsy of the indifference of our societies today pushed to their climax ! I just hope Frank Herbert was more of a cassandra than a prophet ! we will see in 10000 years ! maybe sooner than expected...

[@oootkarsh]

I think we haven't given credit to the narrator lady of this channel for such good content. Thank you!

[@tuckernutter]

According to the books by Brian Herbert, the Baron had rapped the reverend mother. So I think she'd utterly despise him regardless but I don't consider them cannon

[@robintan502]

The creature is definitely the Bene Tlelax’s tanks, and an abomination nonetheless from human experiments disdained by the BG. The second Dune (2024) gave us two clues. The Baron called it a pet, and so did Feyd identified and called Paul's paramour Chani a "pet" to unnerve Paul. So it could very well be Master Yuen's wife. The second installment of Dune also revealed (through her conversation with Irulan) that the Reverend Mother had a hand in counselling Padishah Shaddam to plot with the Harkonnens to rid the Atreides, so the "pet" was the Baron's way of dissing the Bene Gesserit. In fact, in the scene the Reverend Mother was obviously disgusted with the pet, but can't do much about it as her mission was to negotiate safe passage for Paul and his mother

[@Floyd1138]

I think it adds even more fear to the Baron. If he could turn you in to that rubber spider and keep your mind in tact,.. that would be worse than death. It could be Deni's version of the heart plug : to show how depraved the Harkonnen are. Or a nod to the 'pain amplifier'. His way to world build with visuals.

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

“Leaves like a zombie” somehow translated into “slinked away like a bad spider who got caught with their hands in the bug-cookie jar”

[@aperson539]

I thought that it was implied that the creature was Dr. Yueh's wife who had been "taken apart like a doll" and been put back together by Piter or something

[@london_james]

Hmmm

[@mikenapier3598]

I agree with your assessment.

[@Efoure4]

yes she had 8 arms and hands...

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

Piter is a Mentat Assassin, and the Baron mindfucked him pretty hard, but this stuff does surely not appear in _his_ Job description.

[@Lunacounty]

I thought the same

[@thomasjtheobald]

It wasn't a "mistake" - it was a calculated message. Harkonnen was saying, by allowing its presence, "You are powerless to move against me, and I make the rules now."

[@michaelevans1578]

This is the first time I ever considered the spider thing could be Yeuh's wife. I know it is not, but that would have been pretty tragic if it were. Kinda wish it went that way now.

[@Concreteowl]

How can you say you know it isn’t when it’s telegraphed in the dialogue?

[@afterburner94]

We all were left asking about this spider thing. Thank you for providing answers to us ;)

[@josh198599]

Reminds me of the time Vladmir Putin bought his pet doggo to a meeting with Angela Merkle, knowing full well she was scared of big dogs. Bit of an attempted boss power move.

[@mattmanw54301]

I think that it was once human, but a random person, not Yuehs wife. It's just thrown in to show the casual cruelty of the Harkonnens. If they did that to a random person, just because they could, imagine what yuehs wife went through.

[@cyril-rr2jk]

The Baron wasn't careless, he was expressing his contempt for Mohaim ( which was considerable, given their history ) and his confidence that her order, the Guild, and House Corrino wouldn't dare cause him trouble because of his crucial role in their conspiracy against House Atreides. Any attempt to sanction him publicly to reduce or eliminate Harkonnen power risks him retaliating by exposing not only the Emperor's role in the plot, but also the eventual revelation of the Guild's terms ( killing Paul ) for enabling the plot and the Bene Gesserit's interests being affected. He knew that his co-conspirators feared the consequences if the Lansraad found out that a popular duke with a reputation like Leto's was killed and his House eradicated without cause by such an alliance. The Imperium would fall into civil war, houses who wouldn't want to be next on the hit list of an insecure, backstabbing emperor fighting to replace him with someone better. The Bene Gesserit would be even more distrusted ( maybe even disbanded and replaced with an order lacking their agendas ), and even the Guild could face restrictions from a new order that could limit access to spice in a way that might make transportation more costly but in the interest of political stability made the Guild's addiction an angle for control to keep them from meddling again. In the face of such potential consequences, even the emperor's truthsayer wouldn't dare make trouble over the spider, even if one of her sisters was a "donor", until she had a chance to make preparations.

[@Jdshald]

This scene also reveals Denis' in depth understanding of the dune books.

[@christieratcliff1894]

What an interesting video. You brought up some incredibly relevant points!

[@alanbrito5239]

can u plz do a video about the influence of Dune in the major sci-fi franchises?

[@williamharbuck7084]

Influence or direct copy? Lol but for real, it’s incredible how so many people think Star Wars is an original story:

[@heiniknallkopp9688]

@@williamharbuck7084 Warhammer 40k aswell drew heaily from Dune.

[@alanbrito5239]

@@williamharbuck7084 kek both

[@TheMuph]

The moment I saw it I was like "A custom made Tleilaxu Creation." The answer doesn't need to be more complex.

[@champisthebunny6003]

I have to agree completely here. Having such GMO in the room with any BG, let alone the highest ranking Bene Gesserit there is, seems completely out of character, and like NC says, foolish in the extreme. I agree the creature, w/e its nature, could only be a Bene Tilluax creation. While the BT homeworld itself might feature such creatures(?), no one in the imperium would dare flaunt such a being openly, much less in front of the Reverend Mother herself! As for it being, at least in part, Yeuh's wife? Somehow, I doubt it, but, DV made a number of errors in his film which mischaracterize a number of key aspects of the Dune universe. If the 'plan' is to reveal it does consist of his wife in some way in part 2, that wouldn't serve any real purpose to the narrative. We already know the baron and his family are ruthless in the extreme. Yueh is already dead and so is his wife. More to the point tho, the film doesnt really build up the Doctor much, and his wife, even in the novels, is only mentioned as having been killed. IoW, shes not even minor character, and the film barely introduces us to Yueh himself, before he is also killed.

[@oak8891]

Why did the give the spider-person all that cake tho!?

[@glennlaroche1524]

I think the "pet" exists primarily to show just how depraved the Baron and his House have become, and also to indicate his almost misogynist disregard/contempt for the Reverend Mother and the Bene Gesserit.

[@Joseph-ff4sz]

great video!! love your line of speculation!

[@matthewriffel188]

As I recall from reading the books (long ago, mind you), the Tleilaxu made all sorts of disgusting things. The ‘chairdog’ comes to mind; in later books, ‘chairdogs’ are ubiquitous but they aren’t really described that much. Come to find out, it is a horribly mutated, living, literal giant dog with plastic bones that people sit on and it is unable to move or do anything BUT be sat on. There is a scene where some sort of attack has occurred and chairdogshave been torn to pieces, some injured and moaning, with gore everywhere. Reverend Mother Belinda even makes one groan because she is fat and heavy. All sorts of Bene Gesserit are sitting on these cruel, sentient monstrosities in multiple books. So is it surprising that the Baron has a disgusting, sentient pet in front of Mohiam? I don’t think so myself. Piter is also a ‘disfigured soul’ in her presence. He may also have seen some value in disgusting her prior to their meeting.

[@matthewriffel188]

I also don’t think the theory that the spider in Reverend Mother Wanna holds much merit. That takes a bit too much fanciful overthinking. The Bene Gesserit use disgusting ‘chairdogs’ and ‘axlotl tanks’ at will, without much doublethink. So I don’t think this spider creature is much of a problem and does well in illustrating the grossness and craven nature of the Harkonnen family.