The Nameless Things of Middle-earth: Exploring What Gandalf Feared! | Lord of the Rings Lore

[@TheBrokenSword]

Do you like that things like the Nameless Things are kept a mystery? Or would you prefer we knew it all?!

[@Joe-h4i1939]

Both in one part of me want to know more about them like what they look like and what they are but the other part of me thinks it’s a good thing that there’s not a lot knowledge about them and it leaves it up to each person imagining what they are

[@lhadzyan7300]

officially they´ll be ALWAYS an unfinished mystery, however it shouldn´t stop guessing and building theories and sharing about them. They might never get into canon itself but they´re could be builded into something more interesting and better builded on their own over time. The issue is avoid both confrontation with close-stick-to-canon conservative fan-followers and neither impose the alternatives into others too if not interested, though the allowance to think freely about it OUGHT to be defended too! Maybe Tolkien got overtime too much close-narrow-minded on his work and personal views but... the fandom didn´t needed to became dogmatic either way specially for loose ends as the Nameless Things discussion.

[@Joe-h4i1939]

@@lhadzyan7300 wonder what would happen if the nameless things came out of Moria into the world on mass.what would the other races make of them

[@lhadzyan7300]

@@Joe-h4i1939 likely the end of the world or Dagor Dagorath starting on

[@kaidorade1317]

The mistake I see a lot of writers today (young and old) make is that everything needs to be explained lore wise. That takes away the mystery!

[@Dankfz1]

I love that Tolkien didn't explain everything. For me, it's a huge part of what makes the world feel so alive. Also, it makes for great speculation.

[@lhadzyan7300]

yeah but also gets a lot of annoyance on some type of Tolkien´s fans very close-stick to their canon writting´s reference, with the people that are creative-minded into theories either way! There is so much bitter strife on both sides and specially the conservative views on these speculation on loose-ends on Tolkien´s lore.

[@MarleyFett]

Yet it is an itch that cannot be scratched...only speculated.😮

[@FRAKKKA]

It's all explained in the acolyte

[@warrengouldthorpe5091]

And there are a lot of stories that are incompetent that resembles real life history where there's only a little bit of information on certain events

[@furanduron4926]

He barely explained anything. Should have given us more.

[@crazybrotherfilms9165]

1:54 If those things make even the Balrog flee I ain't going anywhere near the caves of middle earth without someone as powerfull as Thor as a bodyguard

[@sirguy6678]

Excellent video! You can tell if Lovecraft had written about these “indescribable things” he would have spent 4 pages describing them

[@GoldBawls]

They’ll pop up in the amazon series, with happy trad family lives. They’re not nameless horrors, they’re just misunderstood.

[@lhadzyan7300]

The Nameless Things indeed seems to be hinted on the Norse mythology about the OTHER "worms" that also GNAWED the Yggdrassil roots alongside Niddhog and which are even fouler and more ancient than him and very unknown!! They kinda don´t get the same power as Niddhog yet neverthless they´re there also doing a big deal of havoc on their own and seems to be rivals of him than co-workers though having the same goal!! Niddhog is pretty well acknowledged overall on Norse mythology but the Other Lesser but more Ancient and Evil Worms are pretty much darker and eerie than himself and very oftenly OVERLOOKED on revisions of the mythology!!

[@MRDLT00]

I didn’t know there were other Worms besides Niddhog who were also gnawing on Yggdrassil’s roots. :o

[@Ragazar]

"The Watcher has immense strength, nearly pulling Frodo into the water" okay calm down buddy, he's a hobbit, not an oliphant 😂😂😂

[@clfoster82]

6:34 ehh...maybe he didn't consciously create them while physically present in Arda, but his discord in the song that created Arda is highly likely what brought them into existence.

[@lhadzyan7300]

that´s the usual idea about its origin and Ungoliant and so on, but anyways they weren´t either on Eru´s own ideas either way! The third chaotic accord on the clash of creation between Eru´s theme and Melkor´s own discordance is oftenly overlooked as well it happened lesserly besides the other two main ones.

[@olliestephens558]

Peak level lore observation

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

but this concept raises other questions. if they are of Melkor doing how come they have will for themselves after the dark lord banishment? we know from dwarves of Aule that the maker must focus on his creation in order for that creation to act. the second Aule's attention was elsewhere the dwarves were motionless, lifeless.

[@lhadzyan7300]

@@alexiachimciuc3199 henceforth they weren´t some Melkor or any Ainur involvement about it and Illuvatar or something alike him but outside of his will got involved into their existence by just accepting them much like as Illuvatar accepted Aüle´s creation of Dwarves though it seemed not part of his original plan but including to improve it much as how he also accepted Melkor´s own disruptions to make better sense and value of his own ideas. So the Nameless Things and Ungoliant might have had the same validation either by Eru Illuvatar once again or/and by something else he couldn´t even make a stand on his own will either way.

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

@@lhadzyan7300 more than a decade has been since I read Silmarilion. I remember vaguely that Ungoliant came to Arda from the void attracted by light.

[@RJMacReady1]

Big ass spiders. Its big ass spiders.

[@NorthernHarker]

It's always some big ass spiders.

[@CartoonHero1986]

If you look at the era and pop culture for when Tolkien was writing up most of his concepts for The Lord of the Rings things like the concept of this dark and mysterious ancient Egyptian, Greek/Roman, Nordic/Germanic/Celtic Aracan-esc myths were very popular in general. I think the Nameless Things are kind of that sort of insert of that influence plus the Occultism that was big after WW1 on Tolkien's generation. These were part of what made those myths so alluring to people (even if they aren't based on actual historic and archaeological study and where mostly the results of rich Europeans making up stories behind artifacts they dug up) so he likely wanted to include some of that in his own works to give it a more realistic ancient and mythological feel to the readers

[@StarsAndDreamz]

I like the idea that Gandalf, as an Istari, wasn't given access to that info but in his Maiar form would know all about them.

[@plocky4275]

Doubtful about that, considering not even Melkor was fully aware of the consequences of his disturbances to the Music. The Ainur are immensely powerful, but each one represents only a tiny fraction of Eru's mind, and we know they struggle to understand each other by their own. Remember when Eru interrupts Melkor for the third and final time and says: _"And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."_ The Nameless Things are most likely one of the many ripples Melkor caused messing up the Music; dark monstrosities he did not envision but that nonetheless serve a purpose in the grand scheme of things. The Nameless Things creeped the Balrog out so much that it fled toward the Endless Stair, allowing Gandalf to follow and ultimately escape. Their existence plays a crucial role allowing Gandalf to climb all the way up to Zirakzigil, where he eventually became the White Wizard Further proof can be found in Morgoth's Ring, Book 10 of The History of Middle-earth, in the section "Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion": _"Out of the discords of the Music - sc. not directly out of either of the themes, Eru's or Melkor's, but of their dissonance with regard one to another - evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor: they were not 'his children'; and therefore, since all evil hates, hated him too. The progeniture of things was corrupted."_

[@StarsAndDreamz]

@plocky4275 melkor couldn't create, so whatever the nameless things were, they weren't created my him. Possibly something twisted by his music, but then the Ainur would know that.

[@plocky4275]

@@StarsAndDreamz Tolkien explicitly stated that the Ainur were slow to understand one another, as described in the very first lines of The Silmarillion: _"But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly."_ Even after Eru revealed to them the results of their Music, the Ainur still did not possess complete knowledge of their own creation! _"And many other things Ilúvatar spoke to the Ainur at that time, and because of their memory of his words, and the knowledge that each has of the Music that he himself made, the Ainur know much of what was, and is, and is to come, and few things are unseen by them. Yet some things there are that they cannot see, neither alone nor taking counsel together; for to none but himself has Ilúvatar revealed all that he has in store."_

[@StarsAndDreamz]

@plocky4275 oh snap I forgot that passage!! Thank you for the reminder!! 😊🤘

[@DadoPanda]

We wouldn't be even half as intrigued as we are now had Tolkien explained the Nameless Things. I love to think about all the manner of things that dwell deep underground.

[@sgauden02]

I think that Watcher In The Water WAS one of the Nameless Things.

[@lhadzyan7300]

I kinda think that as Gandalf is a very wise man deeply concerned about the present and future well-being of Middle Earth and its innhabitants, eventhough when finishing his task against Sauron, he just couldn´t have overlooked the new found issue about the Nameless Things as something aside, but... that follows into speculation on what he went to talk on Tom Bombadill then. However it makes so perfect sense to have him set a proper match between a mystery of Middle Earth on good nature (Tom) against an evil one (the Nameless Things) for the future or have some hinting of calming reasurance from Tom to Gandalf to not bother much about it, so he could leave into the Grey Havens without any regret of leaving something unfinished there! (Tom is pretty powerfull himself considering how easily got rid undermining the One Ring power on his own, and well dealing with the ominous and dangerous Barrow-Wights on his own very easily - of course these weren´t a big deal of enemy as the Nameless Things could be, but if he undermined Sauron´s will on the Ring, and the Nazgul´s leader on the Wights, why he couldn´t then with the Nameless Things if needed too by chance in the future?)

[@jrpipik]

It's important to remember that the myth of The Ainulindalë and the stories of The Silmarillion have been handed down through many generations from the teachings of the Valar and the Elves to Humans in Middle Earth and Numenor, who Tolkien says blended them with their own traditions. They don't completely represent historical reality in the same way that LOTR does, which the authors witnessed firsthand (for the most part). So when Gandalf says the Nameless Things are older than Sauron, he may have an understanding that we don't have through the traditions of the accounts available to us.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

Yep that was his hedge when he decided that the “round world” version was what “really” happened but wasn’t able to go back and rewrite the whole thing

[@jrpipik]

@@BattlestarZenobia The funny thing to me is that he needed a "round world" version to agree with advances in the science of astronomy over the eras of "primitive" mythology, but he was willing to ignore advances in all the other sciences that deal with the development of the planet, the species, and particularly humanity. If he'd fully accepted the mythological approach in the late 50s instead of pursuing the impossible task of reconciling his early myths with current science, he'd have finished and published The Silmarillion in a few more years.

[@firstsurugi5250]

Pretty sure the "Nameless Things" and/or Watcher in the Water were created before Tolkien decided that Sauron was a timeless entity from before the beginning of the universe. There's simply no other way any of them could be older. Gandalf also called Fangorn the oldest of all living things, when he himself had to be several thousand years older. The wizards and Sauron were simply powerful sorcerers who had somehow transcended mortality, before Tolkien and/or his son decided they were more than that.

[@hylianchriss]

Gandalf isn't older than the world - Olorin is. Gandalf is the name and the persona he took/was given as he came to Middle Earth, with his entire angelic primordial being getting severely depowered. Sure, some thing are probably a retcon by Tolkien (like the Ring of Power itself). But Sauron as the dark lord we know him as isn't timeless, nor is he omnipotent (many beings in Middle Earth did not respect nor recognize him, as they had served his much more powerful master). It is quite possible Sauron and Gandalf aren't aware of the primordial creatures of Middle Earth, seeing as they weren't there when they were created. Gandalf himself is very roughly 4000 years old (arriving at the end of the Second Age if I'm not mistaken, and remaining there until the beginning of the Fourth Age), while some things in Middle Earth (like Tom Bombadill, Treebeard and even the Balrog in Moria) being much older than him. Because Gandalf is an almost mortal personification of Olorin, who is more or less timeless. but exclusively existed outside of Middle Earth.

[@firstsurugi5250]

@@hylianchriss splitting hairs here, I gotta say. In any event I prefer the meta explanation for the inconsistencies rather than try to torture an explanation out of the story.

[@jrpipik]

The origins of the gods under the one God lie back in The Book of Lost Tales of the 1920s and were firmly established through successive drafts of The Silmarillion through the late 1930s along with the identification of Sauron as one of them well before LOTR was written. He even identifies the Necromancer of The Hobbit with Sauron in a letter to his publisher before LOTR was begun. Be assured, before he wrote LOTR Tolkien knew that Sauron was an angelic being who preexisted the universe who became Melkor's chief lieutenant who had survived his master's downfall.

[@jrpipik]

@@firstsurugi5250 Gandalf identifies himself as Olorin in LOTR, not as some latter day manifestation or whatever. And the description of Olorin in the Valaquenta suits Gandalf perfectly (naturally, since Tolkien wrote it after LOTR).

[@Sasuke81a]

I was thinking of the Nameless things and the fact they're older than Sauron who is a Maiar of all beings indicates they may had existed before the events of the Silmarillion. This made me think about Dagor Dagorath which will happen in the far future and afterwards a new Creation Song just like in the beginning of the Silmarillion. This reminds me of the Hindu cycle of the Universe which is Creation, Preservation and Destruction which indicates before the Song of Creation in the beginning of the Silmarillion, there was an earlier Dagor Dagorath which may had been a battle between the Valar and the Nameless things. The earlier Arda which no longer exists is may where Tom Bombadil and Goldberry and even the Nameless things may had originated from.

[@JohnAmidon-c6r]

Another one of those unexplained mysteries! 😮

[@hotarusama5826]

My favorite theory regarding the nameless things is that they are the embodiment of Melkor's dissonant and clashing tune during the process of creation, thus why they are gnawing away at the roots of the world. It also explains how they existed before the Ainur (including Sauron) entered the world.

[@TarMody]

If the Nameless Things are not Ainu, then technically it is not possible for them to be older than Sauron. I think that this expression is used in this passage because their history is older than Sauron in terms of their existence on Arda. They probably existed simultaneously with Arda as a result of the disharmony created by Melkor's distortion of the Music of the Ainur and the vision of Arda realized by Eru with the Secret Fire. Since Sauron and even the Valar had not yet descended to Arda after Arda was created, they were older than Sauron when he descended to Arda.

[@lauries1896]

As a nurse/detective and detective daughter, I love mysteries and find them beautiful.

[@superslayerguy]

Wouldn’t be able to call them “the nameless things” if we knew everything about them 😜

[@darrengladden4681]

Yes, that's my take 😊

[@FRAKKKA]

It's all explained in the acolyte

[@keironharvey]

Tolkien was a genius for keeping his History a Mystery...

[@Gleipnir31]

Theory, they have no name. So they can't be part of the great music. At least they shouldn't. They can therefore come from what was there before. Or be an errors. This could explain why Gandalf doesn't seem to know much about them, there is no info in the great music about them .

[@renevalice3056]

the philosophy is wonderful- our world can be seen the same way, with cosmic and natural awe all around us. whether or not it can be all understood, the harmony is real and grand.

[@SaggyBeanBags]

A cool dark souls like game could be Gandalfs journey fighting the nameless things while chasing the balrog.

[@maximedaunis8292]

@@SaggyBeanBags Oh enough with dark souls

[@lhadzyan7300]

The Nameless Things are pretty AMAZING!! And could be A LOT of things actually freely for imagination even against Tolkien´s own core-foundations itself by chance - henceforth that was another reason he didn´t might have wanted to develop furtherly because it´s a loose end on both a mystery but also a connection with even a higher reality beyond even Tolkien´s own envisioning his world. (Pretty much as when the Quantum Hypotesis on Radiant Energy by Max Planck on 1900 would start a huge revolution on Physics Science and henceforth the classical view on Reality got utterly torn-down on the previous narrow and predictable universal laws of classical Mechanics by Newton and alike. Tolkiens´s view on his world based on the Catholic Church theology got his own whole of matrix-breakup loose-end at the Nameless Things and alike issues!)

[@faedraemberhart5500]

In a world so rich in lore I honestly dont mind that theres a few things left mysterious and undiscovered. Sometimes your imagination can create things worse than what can be described in a book. So yeah, clearly I dont mind at all!

[@zander12]

The paralles between Tolkien's Nameless Things and the work of H.P. Lovecraft is very interesting. Intentional or not, it's just interesting to see this. These unknowable beings are fascinating concepts to me.

[@warhound87]

What’s the name of that background music?

[@LemonChickenSlurp]

Lukas

[@Joe-h4i1939]

Would the dwarf known about the nameless thing under Moria plus how many times did the watcher eat on the orcs and goblins in that area

[@lmr4403]

Likely the dwarves didn't know about the nameless things as Gandalf says that they are deeper than the dwarves have dug. (and the dwarves that dug deepest, all perished by Durin's bane)

[@Joe-h4i1939]

@@lmr4403 they could found them after the death of Durin’s bane and I wonder what they would make of them and if the orcs knew of them

[@lmr4403]

​@@Joe-h4i1939 Orcs likely knew a bit that fearful creatures were deep below, given that Durin's bane actually chased the Watcher from deep below into the lake. And I think since Gandalf shared the info with Gimli, it would eventually be known as idea by the other dwarves.

[@lhadzyan7300]

it seems the Watcher and the lake had happened on a much later time a bit before Balin´s attempt to recolonize Moria being those events happening sometime between the end of The Hobbit but before The Lord of the Rings starts. However there was very little comunications with their group - eventhough the Peter Jackson movies seems to point otherwise - so they didn´t knew anything about the lake, the Watcher or what came to be of Balin´s expedition untill they came into Moria actually. However what I found quite odd and unusual is that a big while after the end of the Lord of the Rings story it´s quoted that the Dwarves actually retake Moria as the Balrog was no longer there, neither the remaining Orc could have some proper leadership on their own after Sauron´s demise. Still there are no hints of they getting trouble on both the Watcher still there, nor even a mention on the Nameless Things too eventhough Gandalf had already informed Gimli about them so he cold have shared it to other Dwarves. (Also there is no hint on they getting to rebuild Khazad-dum bridge then, although they kinda neeeded to do it, for getting proper connection into the inner city and much later then going into the other opening closed there and deal with the Watcher if still being there by chance.) A lot of omissions granted for good missing important details on Tolkien´s behalf, even for something so great as the reinstauration of Moria´s takeover by Dwarves!!

[@jrpipik]

@@lhadzyan7300 If Tolkien had decided to tell the tales of the resettlement of Moria by Durin VII, he would no doubt have provided all the necessary details. But he decided against it. Perhaps a good topic for fan fiction.

[@Emanon...]

Let me guess: Aule had a hand in this too?

[@KarlMySuitcase]

I like to think of them as side effects of the discord sowed in the music of Eru.

[@belmiris1371]

I always assumed they were things that existed before the creation of token's world.

[@christopherjustice6411]

Tolkien read Lovecraft it seems.

[@darrengladden4681]

I just think these are creatures that are unnamed as they are still to be discovered, just as in our own history.

[@Saphire_Throated_Carpenter_Ant]

Well here's the thing, I'm ok with the way the lore was left, but if ever had a chance to discus it with Tolkien himself to learn more I definitely would not pass up the opportunity.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

I wonder if Prof Tolkien read Lovecraft's works

[@Renzo-eq9bu]

I think he edited one Lovecraft's story which called "The Doom that came to Sarnath" which features the Great Old One "Borkrug" 🦎

[@lhadzyan7300]

he did but a big while after finishing the Lord of the Rings and henceforth very much latter on when doing the famous quotation on the Nameless Things then, at least that´s the official data: he seems to have been chosen to review a fantasy anthology and so read an earlier work of Lovecraft on the 60s: "The Doom that came into Sarnath" and wasn´t much impressed about his work and didn´t investigated furtherly on his work. However Tolkien did was impressed by two close-coworkers of Lovecraft´s circle: Robert E. Howard (creator of Conan the Barbarian too) and Clark Ashton Smith, however it seems that also only knew of Smith at the 60s too - after doing the Two Towers a big while ago - but on Howard it´s ambiguous and unknown if he got into Conan stories actually while still working on TLOTR or a bit later on, but he kinda already knew his work before doing the review on the fantasy anthology at the 60s. Anyways, Tolkien could have knew about the precursors of Lovecraftian lore that happened to be working on the 20 years time between 1895 to 1915, as were Ambrose Bierce, Algernon Blackwood, Arthur Machen, William H. Hogdson, Robert W. Chambers and Lord Dunnsany among others which indeed happened to incluse stuff that later became developed by Lovecraft and his group into the lore of cosmic horror fiction we know. So he didn´t needed to read or know about Lovecraftian lore to build something like that anyways!! Tolkien would have HATED deeply Lovecraftian lore furtherly if reading it more because it was so much against the core-foundations of his creation as it got a very monotheistic Catholic influence on itself, while Lovecraftian is pretty atheistic to polytheistic-type or simply chaotic and amoral in core-foundations, so it´s pretty much against the sense of morals in Tolkien´s lore!! Henceforth, the Nameless Things and alike as Ungoliant or the Watcher couldn´t be developed properly because it would might undermine the very foundations on his own world building for being a third party of chaos primordial against the both organized opposite visions of Good(Eru Illuvatar) vs Evil (Melkor/Morgoth and Sauron then and their kind) and well, it breaks up even Eru´s all mightyness itself eventhough not dammaging his own good unique nature itself, but... well that was horrifying to keep on trust on Tolkien´s own will I guess on his moral implications for allowing it!! Then as Tolkien aged even more and got even more into a grumpy conservative close-minded guy into orthodoxy views - even against on the Catholic Church inner reformations on the late 60s and early 70s at the Vatican II Council, henceforth nothing worthy of deeming other POVs could be acknowledged by him at that time!!

[@censoredbybigbrother1175]

He did... but you do not need to read them to have a fascination with the dread of unknown horrors. Just watch the olympics opening in Paris... eldrich horrors everywhere disguised as "modern art".

[@lhadzyan7300]

@@censoredbybigbrother1175 that´s another issue anyways! Even if by chance Tolkien did read Lovecraft he didn´t acknowledged the actual creative tunes he might have liked to use from him, as everything else on his lore was total opposite for his own beliefs which were the core-foundations of his mythological creation, i.e Lovecraft was mainly atheist-nihilist to agnostic-pantheist in a dark view of things with no trust on morals, whereas Tolkien is so much into moral dualism coming rightforward his Catholic Christianity beliefs which got furtherlymore ortodox-dogmatic-closed-conservative over time, so he wasn´t gonna acknowledge some reference or anything positive in all on someone so much against himself no matter if there was some creative ideas he might have used. However to make this assumptions always makes some part of dogmatic and old fans of Tolkien very enraged when his work is pinpointed on niptucking-opportunistic and doing nasty issues on disrespect on the people he wasn´t in tune on, eventhough he might do use hypocritically some stuff from them in his own context, henceforth why... it´s mostly addressed the idea of him getting into the Lovecraftian-like lore stuff on a parallel way on his own without ever reading Lovecraft in time before talking of the Nameless Things and alike. I meant makes sense Tolkien not acknowledging Lovecraft influence on himself, but on safety issues for not going against the usual canonical views on Tolkien experts which might enrage on this alternative ideas it´s safer to think he got into that on his own without ever knowing of Lovecraft himself.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

@@censoredbybigbrother1175 The gates of Chaos and Hell are open. These are the times Prof Tolkien warned us, but also our times to become heroes. We perhaps meet each other in Halls of Mandos.

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

If anyone else had written this, I would assign it as Lovecraftian. But that is impossible. Perhaps it's the common Dunsany influence. I have read both Tolkien and Lovecraft but have yet to look deeply into Dunsany.

[@NyancatOpalEichelmann]

The nameless things, The Watcher and Ungoliant are creatures unintentionally created by Melkor in the first and second Ainulindale. Thats my opinion.

[@jarlwilliam9932]

We even get Ungoliant as possibly being a Maia who fell and joined Melkor, though her origin is never explained beyond like two suggestions.

[@NyancatOpalEichelmann]

@@jarlwilliam9932 Sure, i know this theory. You know the meme "Every mistery creature is a maiar" ?

[@jarlwilliam9932]

@@NyancatOpalEichelmann I mean it’s not a meme or theory, it’s literally laid out in the Silmarillion. We’re told two explanations, or well three by Tolkien himself, maia, void spirit that came about because of Melkor’s corruption, and then in a letter outside the text Tolkien said that Eru could’ve created other worlds and Ungoliant could’ve been something from one of those other worlds.

[@redomer91]

Sauron is as old as the Valar and Gandalf as all of them are Ainur, essentially angels of Illuvitar, who participated in the song of creation. The nameless things being older would mean they predate not only creation but the birth of the Ainur. This makes things from outside creation just like Ungoliant.

[@mattsamoto4451]

Well he did metnion things in the dark places of the earth and what was there. So yeah i believe there were things unseen far scarryer than the Balrog

[@MacLooken9019]

In my humble opinion, there are a lot of things in our own world that we do not know or understand; therefore, I think its possible that Tolkien applied the same concept to his literature.

[@garin4364]

Holy shit I am so excited.

[@Loreweavver]

There's an unnameable, indescribable, unimaginable thing in my basement

[@BattlestarZenobia]

And I want it punted

[@hylianchriss]

I agree with Tolkien's philosophy that some mysteries should remain. But my personal opinion is that he should never have introduced/talked about Eru Illuvitar, and the creation of everything. To me, that takes away way too much of the mystery and the appeal and stakes of the stories. Middle Earth suddenly felt so small for me.

[@j-mc5201]

The nameless things in Amazon storage facility

[@censoredbybigbrother1175]

Even the nameless things dare not go to places this horrid.

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

MANWE: We were products of your thoughts. So how did you forgot about the nameless ones? ERU: I lost their birth certificates

[@lizard5236]

If they are older and more horrifying why didnt they interfere with the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog. I would imagine they would at least try to kill Gandalf if not both of them for intruding into their domain? Maybe they just didnt care though. I was always curious about this.

[@17Watman]

The Theory I believe is either “The Nameless Things are creatures that were experimented on by Morgoth during the oldest days of Arda.” Or “They were created from the result’s of Melkor’s theme clashing with Eru’s theme and thus already in Arda before the Ainur descended to it.” I believe that the Theory of The Nameless Things coming from the Darkness beyond Arda is wrong. My reason is that it would mean they weren’t created by Eru. Given that there was nothing before Eru, how could these things already exist before him when he created everything. This is just my stance on this theory.

[@tommiegunn2043]

like😱 DUDE ... WHAT THE 😱

[@unclefester1991]

Margoth brought the oldest of these creatures from the void and down into Arda. He had the opportunity to find them in the Void when he was searching for the Flame Imperishable.

[@isaiahwimberly]

More information about them

[@nozrep]

Tolkien’s Cthulue😅 i cannot be the only one to have said it

[@joshuaparrott2458]

I imagine it like blackreach in skyrim.

[@devinklassen9769]

Gotta nitpick, something that other channels do too. It should be clarified hat these "namelessthings" might predate Sauron's time in Arda... but they don't predate Sauron. As a Maiar they aren't "older" than him.

[@palantir135]

Morgoth couldn’t create things, only Eru could.

[@ZephyrOptional]

That always led me to think they might have been primordial forces of nature, left in the deep because their frighting powers were only us useful during the earliest time while the world was being physically formed. But yes, you’re right, morgoth might have corrupted some but they were all originally conceived by Eru with a purpose. I think Tom B would say these creatures should be better left undisturbed and not specifically or inherently evil. I like the parallel to ungoliant. Always thought of her as a natural and necessary Black Hole type figure meant to be hidden away to stabilize the universe after its creation but was manipulated and lured out with promises of Devine Light to consume. But even Morgoth has a Devine purpose and the evil he does simply lays the ground for an even more miraculous good as designed by Eru. Good stuff huh?

[@anadmirer8789]

'Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.’ In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.

[@jb2257]

It makes no sense Gandalf said he was terrified or doesn’t want to speak of them yet he lived after facing them and came back stronger?? Why was he scared he won

[@SiiriCressey]

0:18 Why does Sauron say tharmy instead of army? That's long bugged me.

[@FNigslol]

@@SiiriCressey he doesn't

[@PodicepsITF]

@@FNigslol he does, stop it

[@SiiriCressey]

@@FNigslol It's what it has sounded like every single time to me. "Build me a tharmy worthy of Mordor."

[@Runner-Boy]

@@SiiriCressey i think this guy cuts it

[@SiiriCressey]

@@Runner-Boy What does that mean?

[@luispablogonzalezv4522]

Trying to explain everything is what's destroying star wars

[@caseynash9729]

And wokeness

[@PtolemyJones]

Why did Eru Ilúvatar even make these things?

[@stevenstehling]

Because he brought form to the things in song from Melkor and his followers. Even their discord will serve his plan in the end.

[@PtolemyJones]

@@stevenstehling But he also created Melkor knowing full well he was ecil, makes Eru seem like he wants and even likes all the evil and hardship of the world.

[@stevenstehling]

@@PtolemyJones Melkor like all of the Ainur are imbued with a portion of the personality and power of Eru. Melkor has the drive to create and provide order, but not mercy. He is not innately evil. He had the free will to choose how to express his desires. He chose to rebel, but he could never overpower the will of Eru. Suffering and evil are not a necessity but are a result of the free will that Eru gave to the Ainur. The song of the Ainur gave shape to the world and greatly impacted the what the children of Eru would experience in Middle Earth. Those children will then participate in the next song, using their free will to perhaps make a world without suffering.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

So we talking Cthulhu here?

[@christmasham4312]

The nameless king

[@mehmetcengiz3583]

gandalf is a pssy he has so much power why is he scared of some insects

[@morgoth173]

Video 313

[@dogstar5927]

The nameless things were DEI and ESG ! 🙄🤦🏽‍♂️

[@chivacetana]

Gandalf must of found democrats down there.

[@Ltmoore88079]

I want prequels going back that started it all start with what happened with morgoth and why and how he came to be and how he found Sauron and all that good stuff.

[@DaDaDo661]

No, that's how you get the god awful Amazon series