The narcissist's victim-bully complex

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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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[@delicate.mascara]

What's even worse is when only you see the bully part, and all that everyone else sees is the victim part. Then the narcissist gets all the sympathy and support while you look like the jerk.

[@missbrowniejay]

Exactly!

[@Ailieorz]

This. Everyone else sees the big-eyed precious princess who is apparently so kind and helpful, but you see the overbearing, selfish bully who always wants their way or no way.

[@maxp7302]

And this is how flying monkeys are recruited..... 🙄 Spot on!

[@Ysmfotografie]

Yes so right

[@ushere5791]

YESSSSS!!!!! i was in my 30s when my mother referred to my older sister as her "sweet" little baby...and i thought "my sister?? sweet??!??" >X( but that's what my mother saw. my sister would torture me, and if i reacted, i got hit and yelled at. my sister bulled tf outta me, but all my mother saw my sister as was a poor little victim.

[@iriswontbequiet]

Seems like whenever I stand up for myself, I'm suddenly "disrespectful". Whereas the narcissist was what? Disrespecting my boundaries.

[@OneLifeOneDifference]

🙏🏼💜🙌🏼🫂I see you! #BIGPK #Evidence

[@TinaLouise73]

Secretly video it discreetly trust me its collateral/insurance u know just incase of if they really do a 180 n dnt switch bck to fake nicey towards u! Think of YOU NOT them! Uck em! They are not inna position to outsmart u trust me! X

[@Mewkew3]

When I stand up for myself, they cry crocodile tears and say, "YOU hurt ME!" and play the victim when they were just bullying me only moments before. I don't buy into it and if they nurse it for days or weeks, I'm like, "When you respect my feelings, I'll respect yours more too."

[@beeswax888]

Totally my life right now, I get fined. Or threatens with having my money taken. This is 100% correct. Any time he hears anything like the facts of abuse, I’ve then got an attitude. It’s living hell

[@moodymanda6225]

You took the works right out of my mouth

[@titaniumcranium3755]

They waste your energy by berating you and they waste it by forcing you to parent them. You are an ADULT, leave me alone

[@suni8891]

They don’t believe in being held accountable for anything

[@Moonmaedyn]

Honstly, I don't think narcissists have ever matured beyond "the terrible twos."

[@cara0405]

Totally!😄

[@dyoung2739]

Definitely ! They’re toddlers in a grown up body.

[@esh3333]

I believe that’s a true factual statement to some degree: give or take some years. I’ve seen a narcissist cry, and it’s heartbreakingly manipulative. Hard to know if it’s 100% genuine in the moment, but it’s certainly shocking because it’s exactly the way a child cry’s out of frustration and a last resort.

[@Jannatulfirdoas]

Well said

[@sabrinamohammed9778]

Well said !! #kidadults

[@bluecolumbine]

They have 3 roles; 1 the “hero” (in their own mind) 2 the bully 3 the victim

[@kingsagenda]

💯

[@Handles1468]

💯 there is never a story they did the wrong thing. These people are emotional terrorists to an empathic normal person.

[@kawaiimagicalex5170]

100

[@kimp.dr.n2652]

Very right

[@trusailietazperlinski4717]

You know when a person is all 3, but in a healthy way around a narcissist you will never get what you need. You will loose determination and dedication to all your dreams, and they will then make you out to be a monster of a person that loves chaos as they do. It completely changes you...!

[@juliagarrison-odwyer5234]

You end up saying sorry for THEIR BEHAVIOR!!

[@dancingpixie6120]

I refused to even listen to what I NEEDED TO STOP DOING, IN ORDER TO BE ALLOWED TO STAY & TAKE CARE OF HER!! Sooo…. She threw me out and I triumphantly left!! I’ve sent Mother’s Day cards & gifts that remind her only she can change her anger & bitterness! BEST 18 months of my life!! No guilt either because she only spited herself. I am at peace and I love the feeling!! Wish I had found it sooner.

[@canadiansoviet]

"The narcissist is just 1, well-oiled, manipulation machine." Just keep this in mind and suddenly its so clear. Thank you

[@rebeccaf8915]

I can’t count the number of times I apologized for reacting to bullying and abuse. It makes me a little sick to my stomach.

[@amberc3728]

❤

[@LiveHappy76]

I feel you. I can't believe how much others, such as flying monkeys, either condemn me as the bad one and bully or don't permit themselves to be too close to me, to support and help me (isolation and control) because the narcissist has them so uncertain of what is the truth of who is good and bad, true bully and victim, because of how completely and successfully the narcissist hides or justifies their bad behavior and manipulates and reverses others' view and thoughts of me.

[@theresacane8784]

Same. Same❤️

[@michellefarris3961]

I'm ashamed of that, and stroking egos until I can get out of the situation. I should grey rock more and just ignore everything more.

[@williamthecaterpillar5091]

I’m so sad to say that I’ve apologised for him abusing and gaslighting me too. Feel pathetic, like I’m breaking my reason.

[@darklybright]

Playing the victim is also the narcissist's way of punishing people for calling them out. If they see it doesn't work, they use silent treatment.

[@Hookweaver]

My daughter is that girl that has been a difficult person my whole life /her whole life, she can turn on the tears make me feel like a real ass. And then the next minute it’s all my fault! she has stopped talking to me because I called her out oh I don’t know how to handle it her birthday is in two days and she won’t talk to me wont respond to anything.

[@digilyd]

The poor poor narcissist who got incorrect service because what said person actually wanted first was said after delivery of the first specified, there ain't nothing like editing the past so as to be able to blame someone else for ones own unclarity, ain't there?

[@ScarletBrimstone]

I got the bullying from my mom and the guilt tripping from my dad. It was a trapped feeling (damned if you do, damned if you don't). And then you add in my 5 older siblings who would join in with the targeting and criticism. I often find myself thinking, "how did I survive?"

[@adacathy3018]

I had a coworker give another coworker the silent treatment once, and the “victim” just shrugged it off because it was a result of a rumor that was going around

[@midnascape805]

The silent treatment doesn't work on me because it find it amusing. Here you are, putting all this energy into ignoring me and exuding this air of anger towards me, to the point where it's palpable. That's cool, you do you. I'm not going to waste my energy trying to get you to talk to me. If I need to communicate with you, I will, and it's up to you whether or not you wish to listen. It's amusing to watch someone put so much energy into something meant to punish you only to watch it roll of your back. The silent treatment is a blessing, and about as effective as slamming a revolving door.

[@michelesummers2437]

And then they'll throw in your face later and say, "Remenber that time you yelled at me when I was trying to help you."

[@ForeverDrunkckoi]

Tried ro help you..then your mind would be like well what are you doing right now is this helping?

[@MDM-wb3in]

Tell them they were asking for it

[@dorenandsara]

My narcissistic mother and my narcissistic brother pulled a "joke" and I was the object of the "joke". When I told her the next day that the joke was humiliating she dismissed my words. Then she immediately became the victim. I received a text from brother saying that mother has been crying for 3 days and what an awful person I am. So I blocked them on my phone, blocked them from getting through the guard gate at my residence, and will never have anything to do with them for the remainder of my life. That was 4 months ago and I have never been happier knowing that this poisonous duo is unable to reach me.

[@glowindark64]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. That must have been hard to go through.

[@lisaosbourne-eden4576]

Stay strong

[@lizisler9415]

Good for you. BUT. Don’t go back like I did because then it starts all over again. Remember - you will never heal unless you cut all contact - for good. I’m finally free. She died.

[@panhatzi5501]

Good on you ❤

[@jkcliff2956]

Please stick with your resolve. You'll be glad you did.

[@cheeriozombie]

The “I’m just joking line” is such a sick play. You either laugh at your own humiliation to stay “fun” Or you call them out and your “bitter, no fun, too sensitive” You don’t win.

[@FlyingcupNsourcer]

The no-win scenario is like their bread and butter and yes, it is the most frustrating thing.

[@LiveHappy76]

Jojo, thank you for posting this! You really identified the true, underlying motive, dynamic and advantage of this tactic! Like you just dissected it and now I can see where and which muscles attach to which bones via the tendons and where!! Understanding now in crystal clear, ultra-high definition!! Thank you so much! 🙏🙂❤️

[@forwardthinker9966]

When I ask for the joke to be explained to me, the reply is always "forget it."

[@Chuleta_9]

I’ve been too ashamed to admit this.

[@camerong5513]

or it's oh-so subtle degrading , imperceptible to some

[@tracydanneo]

Ever notice how they can’t be consoled once they go into victim mode? What a waste of time and energy it is to try to soothe them.

[@markocroft8539]

Yep, reasonable solutions that don't involve you being manipulated and controlled just drive them even more enraged.

[@tracydanneo]

@@markocroft8539 it’s nuts.

[@falconbritt5461]

They get so much attention from it, that's what I think it is. Guilt makes a great lever to manipulate people with, so they'll yank on that guilt to evoke more comforting and apologies for as long as it works.

[@tracydanneo]

@@falconbritt5461 yes, exactly right. Just another exhausting manipulation.

[@nancyshiver9165]

That’s because all they want is attention! I used to fall for it and keep trying to make him feel better, now I say “I’m sorry you feel that way” and then ignore him. It bothers him that I don’t keep trying, but he stops playing the victim when he no longer gets a reaction!! They are like toddlers the want all eyes on them no matter how they get it!

[@jenm762]

I love when the narcissist tryes to paint you ase the "victim bully" when you call out the bad behavior

[@brandondawson9049]

It feels sick and dirty .. like your mentally being violated over and over again until you have nothing left to offer the world

[@larissacats390]

Covert narcissist love doing it. They tell you rude things and then play the victim like you are wrong and hurt them. I actually think that narcissists don’t even understand what they are doing. They truly believe they are a victim of the “unfair world” around them.

[@nurble443]

Yes and no,sometimes They fully go thinking their normal,sometimes they are fully aware theyre not.sometimes we are most of the time unaware until in very random moments take a look back at everything and realize, what have i done? And why did i did this on the first place?

[@sablebrown4139]

Watch for the smirk. That will tell you everything. They want you submissive, and will play the victim until they are blue in the face to get you to take the bait so they can put their boot on you and grind you into the dirt. They love games, they love to throw you off. They love for you to be nice and caring enough to 'believe' their lies even when your gut says not to do so. When they are gaming you and they tell you a lie, and you feel it but don't want to be rude to them, so you don't push and go along with it, basically letting their lie stand as the truth - right then, watch and see if you don't detect a smirk on their face. They aren't victims, they are victimizers, and they will ruin you if you give them too much leeway.

[@jds0981]

I think they understand and its a power move.

[@javiervidal366]

@@sablebrown4139 exactly, they know what they're doing. If they didn't, they wouldn't know how to act differently around others. I don't think they know what true happiness and contentment means and the closes they get to joy is that smirk.

[@sablebrown4139]

@@javiervidal366 Yes, watch how they act around others - especially those they want to impress or have power over them, or men in general. They don't do anything to antagonize them. They are cowards, they only abuse those who they feel are weaker than they are. And they smirk. I hate that f-ing smirk, but it has clued me in that a lot of this behavior is intentional. It's a really good tell. Just wish I'd noticed it sooner.

[@Its_like_the_T-Rex]

My therapist drew a triangle 🔺️ of the narcissistic cycle. Bully > Savior > Victim. The three modes that they can only exist in.

[@realliving7340]

This is so true!

[@stealthwarrior5768]

So true. My therapist had no clue about the triangle and made things worse for me. Happy your therapist knows their stuff.

[@dallasfortworthfoundationr8215]

@@stealthwarrior5768 same , I knew more about npd than she did. Kept trying to say she might just be bi-polar. I was sitting there going you have no clue.

[@amberfuchs398]

The Karpman drama triangle: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle

[@camerong5513]

that is very insightful. Forewarned is forearmed

[@cherylg46]

I refuse to apologize for anything anymore unless I’m truly in the wrong!

[@denisedevoto2834]

Same!

[@tichiveon6715]

Same here

[@nicj5354]

Yes! I don't even say "sorry" in public when walking past someone, or reaching past them like I used to. Now I purposefully say "excuse me", or "thank you for waiting/being patient/whatever". I was too agreeable and quick to take blame for everything. Now I'm more careful about that.

[@chriscunningham8807]

They're great at making a mistake and blaming the victim. DARVO..deny abuse reverse victim and offender. They receive full support and sympathy after deceiving, bullying and abusing their latest target. Horrible people create pain and misery for those they target.

[@whereisyourhumanity7557]

I like that. I'm really specific in expressing sorrow anymore. Like "I'm really sorry that happened to you, and I will help you if I can" is so different from "I'm so sorry, that was my fault."

[@mehlover]

It's infuriating when you see them for what they are and yet enablers will comfort the narcissist while the victim will be talked behind their back

[@petekdemircioglu]

Just leave

[@mehlover]

@@petekdemircioglu even when you leave that group, if you're still in the same space as them (like same workplace or classes) it's hard when the narcissist and enablers keep gossiping about you. Leaving is easier said than done and depends heavily on the situation. Left a field because of the dang thing

[@user-eq7iq3do6v]

Yes it is infuriating to themax, but once u catch on u will deal with the bully your way.

[@pennygee667]

The Looney Tunes cartoon where Bugs encounters the Dead End Kid reminds me of this dynamic. Maddening to say the least.

[@Franky566]

yeaaaah. i prefer the idea of revenge. if you can expose the true narcasist beyond a shadow of a doubt... if you can show the world their true face, that is the ultimate nightmare of a narcasist.

[@florencia2771]

My narcissist mom does this. If someone confronts her, she will start crying and play the victim role. It doesn’t work with me anymore.

[@Bpdbryan]

Same here. or she’d say “how do you think I feel?” to manipulate me into feeling guilty.

[@princhipessa1969]

Same here. Every holiday!! Probably why I dislike holidays so much - she ruined all of them.

[@TheSunGoethDown]

My aunt was the same. She bullied her daughter horribly until my poor cousin couldn’t speak without stuttering. One day I snapped and told she was very mean and she started crying. But later, she was back to her normal M.O.

[@epluribusunum1460]

@@princhipessa1969 Ditto the dislike of holidays. I’m on my own and I like to go to a Chinese restaurant. I don’t usually eat that delicious, terrible food, so I make it special for myself by anticipating it beforehand. Those restaurants are open for people who have varied reasons for not being home with a family, and I’ve always found welcomes. When you dine alone, if you have an open, smiling face, many people will speak with you who wouldn’t approach if you had companions. So my Christmas is more like Chinese New Year. Don’t know if anyone else does this or if you can ditch your miserable family but it keeps the day enjoyable and not so hollow, when you don’t have to walk on eggshells. Best wishes, Just C.

[@Earl_E_Burd]

"After everything I've done for you" is the line that's in my journal a few hundred times.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

This is my mother. A martyr BEAST. If I stick up for myself, then that wounds her and she throws herself up on the cross and tells everybody how cruel I am. And they all believe it.

[@burtonrussell1561]

My mother in law to a T.

[@joywebster2678]

Yep my mother even perfected throwing the back of her hand to her forehead in martyrdom. That was our clue as kids to vacate the room if possible!

[@diannebrett4074]

My mother the same. To her children and grandchilden and daughter-in-law. But to everyone else she is sweet and kind. Everyone thinks we are the liars. It is maddening.

[@studiogru3649]

THAT. Every single time, after I'd grown up, that I'd call my mother out for her abusive behavior (past or present), she would start beating (yes, literally beating) her chest shouting "Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa!" over and over again. It finally got so old I started laughing the next time she did it. But of course that set off an absolute EXPLOSION of violent rage...

[@gingerreynolds2017]

I think I could have written your post and every response to it! Are narcissistic mothers the worst? They were supposed to protect us, love us, teach us how to be and yet they are the ones who turned around and screwed up our heads and lives.

[@ProsZCons]

The bad part is that once they’ve done the damage, that stays for a very very long time

[@JessicaDault-ov9gr]

Especially the animosity

[@direstraights]

So so true and they just go on asbif nothing happened as they're oblivious to their own actions. Release the supply energetically they are so insecure that they'll most likely either feel it or detect abandonment.

[@kathycaceres4220]

My husband plays the victim role first as his justification for being the bully! He feels so entitled and anything less enrages him. Everyone who needs to deal with him suffers due to this manipulative behavior. It’s infuriating….

[@michellegirau8136]

I feel like this is one of the reasons why people always blame the real victim because the narcissist is great at always portraying the victim people believe them over someone who really is a victim.

[@lovesakitas]

EXACTLY!

[@maxp7302]

Yes, absolutely! This is how flying monkeys are recruited

[@michellefarris3961]

Yes. We can't lose sight that there are genuine victims in this mess.

[@mylittlekittens]

Yes. Shaming the victim for falling into their trap.

[@Dee_101]

Yeah it's disgusting, my case even child services and the courts believe my narc ex over me and his young children that disclosed many times about their fathers inappropriate behavior being around him alone, CPS/ courts didn't care. I was in disbelief on how the authorities dismissed children over an adult. Sadly it was mostly over race( they were very prejudiced in that area Westmoreland County PA)which shouldn't matter. For the 1st time in my life I felt powerless over protecting my children all because the color of my skin.

[@robertjohnston8876]

To a narc they see themselves abused when they do not get the applause and worship they think they deserve They then seek revenge and retribution on their victims “I demand you worship me or else”

[@indiesindie1984]

You nailed it, Mr. Johnston! 💯%!

[@tracythomas8127]

My JAW has literally just hit the floor! Holy crap! This is spot on. SPOT FREAKING ON.

[@seenamoon5804]

Now imagine a fully grown narcissist, doing this to their own child.

[@JessicaDault-ov9gr]

that's my mom for ya

[@antzooma]

don't have to do too much imagining over here

[@eVaniwithaV]

THIS! THIS! THIS! It’s the duality that took me a while to recognize but this outlines it perfectly! When you’re in it, it really does feel like 2 people…

[@kynathomas4809]

I thought the one I knew had 2 personalities.

[@mystiquelareaux]

Very true!!! The more you learn about narcissist the more you realize how abusive they really are...stay strong and safe ladies and remember they are cowards at heart and more scared of you then you are of them especially when your unpredictable...i am speaking from experience... And i bet they won't won't have that same rage with another man🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@theresamark8220]

Ditto!!

[@yime6631]

Dr. Ramani hits the nail perfectly on the head and all the way down again. My ex of 37 years did this to the grab your barf bucket level! There's really nothing that a narc won't turn into an absolute mind screw.

[@thehighlysensitivewookie]

I had to leave our home because the abuse started to manifest with some serious physical issues. My spouse then turned everything in to how hard it was for THEM. I moved to the opposite coast and had to leave almost *everything* behind, including our adult child, who still lives at home for now... my spouse's life only changed insofar as *I* was gone... but them not seeing me on my birthday was sooooo hard for *them*. The emotional abuse got so much worse I became suicidal, and THEY guilt tripped me at my lowest point. Boundaries were punishment, not me protecting myself, etc. Everything in this video is spot on. Thank you, Dr. Ramani. You helped me gain the strength and clarity I need to protect myself.

[@esh3333]

I’ve seen a narcissist cry, and it’s heartbreakingly manipulative. Hard to know if it’s 100% genuine in the moment, but it’s certainly shocking because it’s exactly the way a child cry’s out of frustration and a last resort.

[@colleengriffin9476]

Same

[@405OKCShiningOn]

Me too. Dont trust their tears.

[@405OKCShiningOn]

i love your comment. (I try to hold dichotomous beliefs about seeing a older man related to me hit himself. It could be a manipulation, or hes very sick, or its time for me to accept its 2017 2018 2019 Narcs fall away into rageful self harm, turn the cheek, nope, get away, go away, stay away and let them go. in my case i needed minds in unison and vortex success borderline session. the older man died from his injuries and kidney failure. in 1990 i met a good neighbor that saw my home life for what it was, she said here are several books, gauard against any of the home or caregiver antics which were known as mental health symompns neither parent sought help for but I sought meds for me at 18 against their little world of "perfect daughter". Iwas 11 secured my own bed, some food, some neighbors to help...the narcissist finds out I had help and took that help away. both gave me a radio and I love madonna, prince, the top 40 hits in pop meant alot to me. both parents liked and played music. both accused me of recording them talking. both were sober. both took turns hitting me. so what victim are they to beat a kid over them being wrong about their accusations. took food away, ruined educations, but yes, oh yes, they narc is a victim of the world crushing his soul and how he has two women living in the house yet the house is dirty. or the time the caregiver woman said no one is a woman until she has a baby. victim bully?? as they grew sick they got wrathful and mean. I withdrew my presence and saw there was nothing to see a family as. nothing to grieve over in the traditional sense of the stages of grieving. family dying feels freeing. im untetheredfrom their states in moving 1000+ to get away from their inner victim, outer bullying ways. and without some time at vortex success and time at medcircle hearing and exploring dr grace and her hypnotherapy I can survive those trauma bonds. ) (their apologies? if i heard what dad said before he died at 14, 25, 30, hed not had a caregiver like me. when he said what he said before he died I didnt have a funeral service to attend. I got stuck very stuck and went thru alot of shame, guilt, isolation, moods, its just impossible to play into or try to navigate their ever changing statuses. )

[@cheebmama]

Same, have you noticed how easily they can stop crying and switch to rage too?

[@esh3333]

Absolutely, and it’s terrifying. The reason they can flip a switchis because they’re not truly feeling the emotions. They are merely mimicking behaviors they’ve seen others express, but they don’t know when each is appropriate so they act them all out believing it will work. That’s only if they stand to lose something. Otherwise they’ll just usually walk away.

[@nursejackie4454]

I am living this rn. I am exhausted and it’s now affecting my health. I have apologized and pacified ad nauseam for things I did not do, for being bullied and devalued. I am honestly exhausted. After going through this yesterday I am now praying this morning he won’t reach out.

[@wolvie_b]

Oh man, this is one of the things I hate seeing the most. It's like you call a narcissistic mother out on her crap and then she's like "Oh, I guess I'm a bad mother :C" and everyone's instantly like "NOOOOO!!!! YOU"RE NOT!" ... hate how they fall for that every time.

[@emlevitanful]

I hear that all the time. “I guess I’m just a bad mother,” or “I am not the mother you wanted.” And I end up comforting her. It is demoralizing and exhausting. So grateful for these videos, which are bringing 65 years of this into focus at last.

[@honeyand_sunshine]

Thats when you say “yes actually, in this instance you are”. (No that doesn’t work, then they’ll switch to “oh so I’m on drugs?! I’m beating you?! I’m *insert really bad thing they’re not currently doing*”. Been there, tried that tactic 🥴)

[@andreag9425]

My ex husband was so good at this. But he didn’t use “it’s just a joke”, his favorite line if I tried to bring up the episodes of bullying was “I’m tired of you constantly bringing up the past” (Even though it was an hour ago 🤷🏼‍♀️) “I will not talk to you if you are being negative, you can only talk about positive things and us moving forward”. I can’t believe I lived with him so long, I had many health problems that have resolved since I moved out.

[@susieneville5612]

Yes...'moving forward' is an excuse not to own their stuff...

[@Siacourage]

They're always ready to "forget the past and move on" when it's about something they did to hurt you but definitely not the other way around. That's because they lack self reflection and don't want to acknowledge the pain they cause others. Glad you got out of there.

[@toriamari649]

I'm with someone who sounds similar and currently bed bound with kidney stones at the age of 25 after a month of discard and gaslighting. I booked a secret ticket to a different city to live with a friend. My body feels so awful I can barely sit up , I've had to take 7 days off work

[@nicj5354]

Mine was exactly the same

[@redclarinetist2913]

So happy for you 😊

[@bevyetc5307]

My mother demanded to know why 3 of 4 of her adult children do not speak to her, I told her that we grew up very fearful because of her intense anger and abuse. She blew up and got very angry. Then suddenly became very sad that nobody loves her and that her childhood was worse than ours. Also, any gift we ever accepted was just using her…from Bully to Victim in 60 seconds!!!

[@susieneville5612]

I think my mum had a really bad childhood....th she wd never own it, and that's what was so crazy...!!!

[@croissantlover1]

sums up my mothers self defense mechanism too. cant debate without it going off.

[@susieneville5612]

Her childhood may HV BN 'worse' than yours.......and, as I said 2my mother that means with our childhoods we shd be on the same side and working together...?..No....!!! She cdnt go there....xx

[@macysondheim]

Maybe you should be nicer to your mother, instead of making the excuse that since she has 3 other awful children who don’t speak to her, that’s it’s okay for you to be the 4th…

[@user-rj6fp6gt3f]

sounds like an autobiography except its my victim dad

[@pattyrooney1323]

The family "scapegoat' role is exhausting... physically, mentally+ emotionally.

[@heatherlaine3082]

Holy macaroni! Your impersonation of the narcissist was exactly what I just witnessed a few minutes ago.

[@sparkygump]

My father to a "T". He was such a baby bully whose mission was to turn every single family gathering into a tantrum opportunity.

[@komalmasood6927]

Exactly same with me and literally we as a family member becomes embarrass till date and also felt bad/guilty when we tried to stopped him and used to make weird faces after his reaction. In consequence he avoid going into gatherings and if he goes with us everyone hearts started poundering becoz no one knows what next word will come out.

[@sparkygump]

@@komalmasood6927 I hear you.

[@komalmasood6927]

@@sparkygump thanks for listening 😊

[@sparkygump]

@@komalmasood6927 no problem. It's always good to share your story with someone who knows your path. Best wishes.

[@stingylizard]

Yep,immediate victim stance,intentional incompetence,gaslighting, and then outright vindictiveness. That's usually just the warm up act...

[@pamelajeananderson80]

😂. Laughing because it’s too true

[@stingylizard]

@@pamelajeananderson80 Salute laughing! I don't know you,not safe to presume, but if you've been dealing with one or more of these NPD critters,then I KNOW you're owed a whole lotta laughter. Cheers and Good Luck😉👍

[@pamelajeananderson80]

@@stingylizard laughing is good medicine

[@user-bb4vv4ul7k]

Recognizing narcissistic behavior in someone close to me has been painful, but it is also a relief. I'm not crazy and I'm not a bad person, despite what they want me to think. I just can't believe I went so long without noticing.

[@nacarreira777]

You're definitely not alone there.

[@iamwendysnowsnow5834]

That’s me!! I’ve been married to one for 33 years!

[@user-eq7iq3do6v]

Ahhh, do not feel bad, i was fooled for a long time also, till i woke up and smelled the coffee

[@ct6852]

You definitely noticed. But you let it go. Probably thought you were just helping them through a bad day (a series of bad days, let's be real). You were trying to do a good thing. Don't be too hard on yourself.

[@tanujabrol3013]

Right ✅

[@kellishipes4747]

My ex is a vunerable narcissist. He is truly a master at this. He NEVER whines, he angrily denies and then accuses me of attacking him. He is definitely a bully.

[@soulsciencewithgia5915]

Yep had one of those... HAD

[@pppp67567]

I have a neighbour I can't get away from that has this magical ability to lie and play victim. He's truly amazing at it. I'm so good at not reacting to him but he makes lies up instead. What is the best way to deal with someone like this? Is leaving the only way? Grey rock doesn't seem to work.

[@Angie247Beers]

I'm married to him still... YET he calls me a narc

[@mypersonaltestgia2704]

Thats the worst mine does that I had to call domestic abuse and this asshole blamed me for breaking his trust! Wtf

[@lisarathmancrumley4668]

Im raging now at them...i will no longer put up with their evil. Drawing my sword...

[@susiesa8295]

never put up with these crazies! stand your ground!

[@innerworkshealing22]

Bully-Victim Cycle…every narcissist EVER!!! I love it bc it’s so sad, so pathetic, so so true. My narc ex was a master at both. He was so skilled at bullying gaslighting manipulating and abusing that he could physically assault in true bully mode and then instantly play victim, flip blame onto me, and mind f$&@ck me into taking all the responsibility and blame for the abuse I endured. The trauma bond blows and even after a year out of this toxicity I still struggle to break free.

[@KiKi-te9yd]

I feel ya. Ditto and hugs. I'm struggling to forget it too. Really annoying!

[@alicewonderland8027]

Exact the same here!

[@annmarieknapp]

I despise such behavior. It is so destructive and cruel.

[@30jspecial]

I have a restraining order against me becuase I told the narcasist to give me my phone back now . That he took from me out of my hand when I said I was calling the police . Dude showed up to court with two crutches and his voice was soft and girly . And I lost in court . I was like how in the heck did this happen and what kind of justice system to we have ? He said he took the phone off the table . I even proved he lied on the restraining order and somehow I'm still the bad guy . He is my step father . I finally told him after years to leave me alone and stop lying and misrepresenting me to others with his jealous nonsense. The guy is a bully and and always talks about how much of a big man he is and how I'm not big enough to hurt him . But when I told him to gIve me my phone he got all tough and I was like GIVE ME MY PHONE NOOOOOWWWWW. I was angry he took my phone when I tried to call police . Unfortunately the only witness was my crazy sister who lied in court as well .

[@jkcliff2956]

My brother was the golden child and I was my mother's punching bag. One Christmas there were 20 presents under the tree for my brother and 2 for me. As I sat under the Xmas tree looking sad, (I was about 8), my mother started to cry and went upstairs and was sobbing how she loved us so much and can't believe she is being accused of this. My father came down and yelled at me to get upstairs and apologize for upsetting my mother.

[@char_lou]

Heartbreaking x

[@lisathomas8480]

I completely understand how you felt. My older sister and mother are both narcissists. When I was 12 my mom looked at the old red jacket my sister was wearing and told her she looked like an orphan in it so she took my sister and bought her a new coat. When I pointed out the fact that my coat was too small my mom handed me my sisters old red coat and said "it's new to you". I had to sew up the rips and I washed it, and that was my new coat to wear for the next year.

[@user-ys7bv6ug6k]

I hope they are no longer in your life

[@ibbis]

My god I’m sorry that’s happened

[@user-ej4sk8bc2l]

My brother and i had to stay over at people.There were no presents for us.I hope you go out now that you're older and spoil yourself BIGTIME!❤

[@esh3333]

I catered to the narcissist when they’d go from bully to victim because I was scared of the bully and hoped my efforts would be appreciated by them. It never worked out that way.

[@ardent9422]

I’ve experienced this is a slightly different way, the way that they use their words, they’re attack you with a harsh aggressive tone and yelling but their words are “woe is me, I have to deal with so much.” Like my grandmother, we confront her about something she’s doing wrong and she’ll say something like “I have to do so much here, I have to cook and clean and mop and change curtains and this is how you treat me!!!” All the things she’s mentioning have nothing to do with what we might be confronting her about and nobody makes her do any of those things, further more when we offer to help she says no. She plays the victim with her words while bullying you with her aggression and yelling.

[@user-ey4rc5tu4t]

They really are very talented. It’s too bad that talent must be framed in “oh, woe is me”.

[@greatgownsbeautifulgowns]

This describes my mother so perfectly! Nasty attitude, nasty towards me with so many snide remarks and put downs.... BUT THEN when I go to defend myself now I'M the devil. Then I get told all of this: "I do everything around here!" "How could you fight with me at a time like this?" "I'm not feeling well!...this is going to make my pressure go up!" So if you're so sick and you're worried about your blood pressure.... Then why would you even start a fight in the first place?🥴

[@violet18]

Cooking and cleaning are important but it's not rocket science. Anyone can do it. I bet if you started doing all the mopping, they would be upset because they can't hold it against you anymore. Personally, I enjoy cleaning a lot.

[@britta3733]

That was my mother....to a T

[@mrb4761]

They can even do that when it was YOU who did all the cooking and cleaning and mopping and changing curtains (and shopping and vacuuming and sweeping) ... nothing is ever good enough

[@DarrenRockwell]

Absolutely perfect description of my narc-mother... holy hell

[@thriftylady662]

The narc walks out, muttering, slamming the door and the whole team let’s out their collective breaths and goes..... “YAY!!! Ok let’s get on with things” - in a healthy crowd that is 😄

[@Zany_Zan]

This is so spot on! My ex bf always did the victim-bully dance every single time I started talking about how his behavior was affecting me. Back then I didn't know it was a form of manipulation that reinforced the trauma bond that lasted for years. No wonder I felt stuck in that relationship no matter how much I wanted to leave. All that drama and outbursts were so mentally draining and confusing. I wish I had known back then what I know now, I wouldn't have wasted so much of my time and energy on him. Thank you, Dr. Ramani for putting into words what I could not describe back then! I am gaining new insights from you every day.

[@lynettecaballero1660]

Im sorry you went through it went through it too. It is very draining on us.we show empathy and compassion as they manipulate with victim/ bullying to get their way,get attention and get us to not express our feelings about their poor and selfcentered treatment.

[@Zany_Zan]

@@lynettecaballero1660 I know right! Up to this day I am still baffled by how they can easily switch from outrage to the "woe is me" speech.

[@salonsavy6476]

So relatable 👏👏

[@someoneishere7548]

Exactly!! 👏🙌

[@sahdogwrangler5594]

I came here to say the same. Back before I knew my DH was a narcissist we'd have these huge blowouts that began with me calling out his behavior or something he did & they always culminated with him being woe is me & then me feeling sorry for him. Ugh Currently he hasn't spoken to me in 2 days because I lost my patience with him hovering over me, trying to "help" meaning watching my every move & telling me how he knows how to do that in a better way. It was a freaking light bulb!! Unfortunately, he does the modified version of the silent treatment, which just means no conversation but can allow questions or directions/demands. I love these kinds of videos that shed light on their behavior & show how we can deal with it. I'm not apologizing. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm done with that, thank you.

[@Betty-yh5ck]

My mom is a master at this! When I was 13 and my sister 16, I had finally snapped after listening to her rage at my sister for years( I was the golden child at that point) she went from so nasty to a puddle of tears, packing her luggage and saying you don’t want me here I’ll just leave! I remember my sister and I comforting her and begging her not to go all while the blood on my face hadn’t even dried yet. I lost my golden child status that day, but my sister and I started to repair our broken relationship.

[@croissantlover1]

When I learned about narcissism, through meeting a malignant one in a education place for 3 years, my mother slowly changed too, because I told how I had discovered narcissism etc. There were other things that happened too that made me suspicious of her but more and more she became another person. I've slowly adapted. She changed when she found out I knew how to spot them. Now I avoid triggers, which is basicly to not stand up for myself on smaller cases (like the "its only a joke") and I've emotionally cut myself off from her. This goes for debating with her too.

[@susieneville5612]

From nasty to puddle of years in a nano second....it makes my head spin to watch it and see how everyone rushes in to help this poor victim...ignoring the physical or emotional blood everywhere....!!! We all get pulled into their alternate reality which is skewed and scary cos their dots don't connect..... They hypnotise people ...

[@undertheradar001]

I would have told her to go anyway, and showed no emotion whatsoever. And also if children would go to social services to report emotional abuse and manipulation they might not have to endure any longer.

[@pattyrobinson948]

I would have helped her pack and shown her to the door.

[@loraineswanepoel287]

I have been through similar situation with my mum. She has done that many times with me where she packs her luggage saying that I don't want her and that she may as well not live etc. In the beginning I used to phone her but she would not answer and then I would text her begging her to come home etc She would reply after a while. But now if that happens I don't even text her anymore. I don't reply to her messages if she sends it to me. I do read them in case there is an emergency but if it is about our argument I will just ignore it. She does not do it as often now.

[@ShushBeQuietSilly]

This is exactly how and why I've wasted 5 years with the most ruthless, demeaning, scary, hurtful and hateful person I've ever known. Now finally, I'm out! It's only been a month, but I can finally breathe again. And your videos have definitely been a part of the help I needed to break free❤ thank you so much❤

[@mr.coffee6109]

BTW,Dr. R has been a life saver for me. She provides knowledge immediately so no waiting for an appt.

[@ammj6202]

I will never forget the moment I called the Narcissist out in a public space with a mutual friend nearby. His explosive rage was so uncalled for that I couldn't help but walk him through how unreasonable it was. Granted his excuse for his behavior was pretty pathetic... but what really captured me was when I turned to the mutual friend in disbelief as he spoke... and I kid you not, she looked like a terrified puppy, head down, peeing itself. Thats when I realized, that is the sort of person he wants in his company. He wants scared submissive types that bow their head down when he explodes. That was her natural reaction to what was happening... and will no doubt default to that when such a problem happens again. These are terrible situations for anyone to go through.

[@otherworlder1]

Your comment hits home for me. So many times this type of situation happened. In fact he is trying to Hoover me now. I am not responding.

[@luvyatubers]

Was the friends name Theresa, lol. I witnessed that too. Supposedly her husband who she adored was an awful jerk to her so she was just reacting normal. Not me man. I did this dance for three years until narc fired me in a crummy way. It was rough cuz pandemic had just started. Now I have different problems but I still watch these vids to keep my narc radar working good

[@sablebrown4139]

Submission is all they accept, anything else is an act, and they will make that clear to you as well when it suits them.

[@dianegardner2443]

@@sablebrown4139 they have to have control.

[@margareth1504]

Such a good comment. One narc commented, declared really, that his mother was a REAL LADY! ...who knew her place and how to behave like a real lady. When her husband saw she was bad, he literally made like a charging bull, and ran, charging, head down toward her, growling horribly like a mad dog. Her eyes popped in deep fear and fright, then she bent, contorted, cowered and shrunk with guilt and shame squirming in her chair looking up at him like a frightened child. Then I realised her sin was not preventing her skirt from being caught up accidentally and exposing some underwear item, like a petticoat or something as she began to pull her skirt hem down. His mother behaved like a frightened child afraid of an adult. And that was the key to being treated like their version of a real lady in that family situation.

[@skylarthompson2683]

Dr. Ramani thank you for bringing all of this to light, you are hopefully changing the world with how many people you have reached 🙏🏻❤️

[@asrarobaid6737]

Yah thank you

[@christinahazzard8086]

Personal Message for you! Yes! Thank you for ALL of the support we get from understanding these harmful people. My hope for you is that you are doing OK. I have been grateful to you for your honesty and integrity! My wish for you is that things get better in your life. How to say: please do allow your "mind" to remain in a healthy place. If you are going through something, please take time for yourself to process. [Maybe those two degrees I have in Psych. kicked in here?]. Hope this is understood as intended.

[@songsandstories3332]

Dr. Ramani, I wrote a poem about my experience with a long term narcissistic relationship. By Lori C Death by a thousand paper cuts, The cruelest way to die, Not murdered by a shotgun, Veiled nerve gas, ever sly Incremental homicide, Death that leaves no clues, Even Sherlock’s left perplexed- A narcissistic ruse- Gaslighted without knowledge, Thrown tumbling off your game, A disingenuous rival, Defacement without shame, Second guessing always, “Did my lover intend harm?” Efforts to de-escalate, Are Futile to disarm. Death by a thousand paper cuts, Minute, (my-noot) but aching trauma, Object and shout and call it out, Ahhh there you go-“such drama”, Eggshells crunch beneath your feet, Attach your thousandth filter, Sift through the blame, “Let me explain....” A battle you’re not built for, Those cutting words, what did they mean? Deceptive eyes avert you , The mind ablaze, an endless maze, Of “I didn’t mean to “hurt” you, “You’re broken and can’t help yourself, If you act right….walk the line.. Perhaps we can move forward…” Their “forgiveness”, so sublime, And thus a surreptitious web, Spins binding cords entrapping, You’re in a war, but still unsure, If any of it’s happening… Death by a thousand paper cuts, The slowest way to die, Not murdered in blind passion, Nor understanding why, Murder in slow motion Don’t contemplate that gun, Some sage advice to you, my friend? What you must do… Is RUN.

[@loudmouthdreamwalker5087]

This is heartbreaking, beautiful, cathartic, and so so accurate.... This was the vicious cycle I experienced with my dad, you captured it perfectly. Thank you for posting this, I really needed to see it. If your creative voice is that strong after that experience, then you, my friend, are one freaking powerful person. Keep your colors and stay strong. ❤️

[@songsandstories3332]

@@loudmouthdreamwalker5087 I'm so sorry you experienced this too...and thank you so much for your kind words

[@loudmouthdreamwalker5087]

@@songsandstories3332 Thank you for your reply, you made my day! Blessings to you always 🙏

[@premeditatio]

This is excellent, in passion, in insight, in the strength of vulnerability, not to mention how carefully and beautifully crafted. Thank you for sharing.

[@claytongue]

Wow! ❤️💔

[@sweetpea17]

A really good video would be about getting over the shame of being fooled and believing a narcissist for however long. It can be very embarrassing

[@heathergibson2158]

I completely agree. Trying to explain any of it, imo, sounds like I'm being ridiculously petty, but the few people that have taken the time to try and understand it all, asked why I didn't do this or that. Most asked question is why I stayed so long and why it took me so long to figure out he was defective. I can't think of many things I've been personally embarrassed about, but the fact that someone like my stbxh was able to do this to me is embarrassing. Among family and friends, I've always been known as a pretty strong & intelligent person. Not to mention I've worked in mental health for 20+ years. It's been one of the hardest parts to deal with, second to coming to the realization he never loved me and all the precious years I wasted.

[@sweetpea17]

@@heathergibson2158 maybe we need to look for NPD survivor support groups. I worked with a woman who herself is severely abused by a sociopath but was my man's work bestie( in her own mind) She watched the whole thing same as she was going thru, but chose to tell me she was uncomfortable because my man was her work bestie. Had no idea how that sounded to me at all. I had to tell her after I left that job to stop talking to me at the store. She was inappropriate at work and still is. She's said she was trying to be nice. I don't see how. Makes me sick to see any of those gaslighters.

[@t.a.d.7892]

Yes. Need help with this myself

[@extrastout1741]

There's really nothing to be embarrassed about and be proud u saw through it 🤍💙💙

[@lukasribin4168]

I have never believed their bs but I have tried to have empathy if they ever do have any legitimate complaint..but it gets so hard to compartmentalize when you’re actually worse off than them and they’re still attacking you when you’re down while crying victim..it’s too much.

[@kryssysmith1486]

With the exception of about a year ago, my entire life has been nothing but victimizing bullying. When I had actually snapped back at my Narc's because of the way they were treating me, they went for the direct "oh you're nuts, or "you're crazy" and went directly for the silent treatment, NOT to mention this was MY ENTIRE family of origin.

[@macnchessplz]

And that’s exactly what they want: you to snap or fight back so they can pull the “you’re nuts or crazy card.” Especially watch out if they claim multiple ppl who have come and gone are “nuts.” Bc they’re usually the cause of it.

[@kryssysmith1486]

@@macnchessplz It's not usually they are the cause of it, it is they are the reason why. I'm just so glad that I don't have to deal with toddlers anymore. That's exactly what a narcissus is a toddle, and we all know that you can't get through to a toddler when they're throwing a tantrum. However, I actually can deal with adults now and that's what I have in my life. I'm never going back to another tollar (unless they are that actual age).

[@davidfariello3972]

Me too

[@camerong5513]

the gaslighting is calculated, immediate & with obvious motives: these trashy people sense when one is onto them, or even suspicious of what they are; they instantly try to undermine their target's self-confidence & sense of reality

[@Cai_saN]

The story about the guy giving expensive gifts, I can relate so much! When I broke up with a narcissist he accused me of using him. He also said to me "I spent 2000 kr (about $200) on us when you visited me, but never did I hear any thank you". I never asked him to spend money on me, and the money he spent was on eating out because there was no electricity in his appartment (I later realised it was because he didn't pay his bills) and I payed for a lot of the food too. And ofcourse I said thank you, I just didn't bow down to him like he was a god that had just granted me eternal life. I realise when I write this that if you don't know the situation and don't know me, it can sound like I'm a petty person. And that's one thing that is so frustrating with narcissistic abuse. The narcissist allways comes out on top and the victims are afraid to speak up because it will mostly just bite them in the ass.

[@nainasarkar183]

I can relate on this

[@gabyjuen]

No one could ever think you're a petty person ❤️ A simple "thanks" when someone gives you something must be always enough, especially if what they gave to you is something daily and mundane, like food (and not a vital organ 😅) They ALWAYS make you feel like you're so ungrateful, so mean, so selfish, and they are so generous, so abused, so silly... The empathic part of us try to understand their point of view and to see our "mistakes". But it's just a sick game that makes us believe that we are something we are not. Stay by your truth and trust in it...

[@DesertlizzyThe]

And think about this IF he's Your Husband! How dare HE tell others you're a User?!" No one told him to treat you royally & respectfully LIKE HE SHOULD!!! LIKE HE USED YOU! IN REALITY. What a 🤬

[@DesertlizzyThe]

Good for you!! I get all you said.

[@just_peachy6582]

That’s interesting you mention he didn’t pay his bills , that’s what mine does , he expects me to litterly fix things with nothing , like plumbing or the sink , furnace and so on , everything I do is like a obstacle, I have to do this and that before I can get to the thing I’m actually trying to do . It’s exhausting. Lived without hot water for a year , lived without the furnace now for two years almost , all with the promises. I can even get enough respect for him to do the bare minimum for me , but oh he bought that cheeseburger and he would come up with lies like I’ve spent 700$ on you this week .. like really because I haven’t left the house in a week , my insurance is about to be canceled and my car tags are expired… why even lie about stuff like that ? I’ve been trying to get out every sense I got Hoovered back , his work mean absolutely nothing

[@Returnofthemackburt]

It’s reaching a point where I justify their behavior by thinking maybe I am the problem

[@Misorganic1]

That's exactly what they expect you to do the best thing you can do is plan and escape get out and don't turn back get out... And don't return until you're healthy and strong

[@antzooma]

don't accept that you are the problem, it can affect you in future relationships

[@elliedaniels2245]

You're not the problem.

[@JFalcony]

You're not the problem!

[@breebybitz]

These people are selfish and they make everything about themselves. They have the emotional capacity of children. When you call them out, they can take it so they switch it around to make it about them being a victim. They can't be accountable for their actions.

[@nompilokhanyile8100]

OH MY GOSH I experienced this with some guy I was seeing last week. I was trying to let him know respectfully that I was no longer interested in him. He asked why and I mentioned all the things he did wrong. That man kept minimizing my issues. Saying he was joking. Then somehow switched it around and started calling me a monster for leading him on. He kept wanting me to admit that I felt guilty. I didn't. And he left once he realized I wasn't budging. I'm really proud of how I handled it though. Next time, I won't explain myself. Coz it's pointless anyway. I just wish they'd stop coming my way though. I don't understand why I keep attracting such guys. 😑

[@lovesakitas]

Yes! Good for you! You did a “no” test and then you were able to realize he was toxic and cross his name off your list!

[@lovesakitas]

Have you ever tried to leave a narcissist and had them tell you “no”. Makes no sense.

[@nompilokhanyile8100]

@@lovesakitas OMG GIRRRRRLLLL!!!!! One of my exes did that. Unfortunately I stayed then. But I managed to leave a few weeks after. He's still trying to hoover me back in 2 years later.

[@michellefarris3961]

Narcs are often networked and prey on previously abused, traumatized women. They see them as weak and dumb, who will probably fall for it again. You might be targeted by such a group.

[@AdrenalineJackie]

@@michellefarris3961 Yeah, I think I attracted mine by sharing stories of a mentally abusive ex and how I stayed. He started throwing it in my face that I dealt with more for longer.. he couldn't accept the fact that I left after 5 weeks when the other guy got 7 months.

[@carmennorth8482]

I absolutely bawled my eyes out when you explained this dynamic, because it happened to me, literally today. My narcissist switches from the bully to the victim, and back, sometimes 5 times in one minute. I am just dying to get away from this person. I'm being mentally tortured day in and day out. I really take comfort in your videos, Ramani, and I just hope I can find the strength to get through this

[@mnikaluza4]

You have more strength than you might think… keep watching and educating yourself and the strength comes

[@moonrise7781]

Just try to remember one thing. You have to take a risk in life sometimes it’s pays off and sometimes it doesn’t. But if you don’t make that change 10 years from now you will be doing the same thing. I know because I wasted 10 years on a narcissist. Good luck

[@KCGray]

Hope you’ve found your strength. The difference in life experience is worth it in the end, IMHO.

[@SabrinaMishMassey]

I am currently struggling with a narcissist gaslighter. I lost my shit on this person and the narcissist did exactly what you said!!! Like....WT-actual-F??

[@martytrout6252]

GET OUT.

[@maureenmackey4879]

Cuz it absolutely what they do.

[@Augie-zn4gv]

My ex-wife was constantly playing the victim about EVERYTHING! She isolated me from my own friends and then blamed me for it (gaslighting me). After the dissolution, she's still playing the victim. Come to find out, my friends ghosted us BECAUSE OF HER. She blatantly lied to me and told they stopped hanging out with us because of me. After the dissolution me and my friends have been hanging out again. THIS IS ABUSE! ABUSE HAPPENS TO MEN TOO!

[@JFalcony]

Exact same thing happened to me. I see it. It happens. I have seen many broken men from this too.

[@georgiavela5276]

You're so right, I have observed too many examples of women bullying men to disagree.

[@PhantasmicEther]

Oh my lord, this completely describes the certain narcs I deal with in only two words! They are the biggest bullies and then they turn around and use their victim hood to excuse their behavior. It’s truly sickening.

[@MJ-qb5ph]

I hear you totally. Mother Theresa to the world hitler to us

[@timmywitty1432]

@@MJ-qb5ph just an FYI, Mother Theresa was a psychopath. Known for making the sick patients suffer. This creature was a man pretending to be a woman, he worked for the Vatican and was a major human trafficker.

[@sindiswamoolman5505]

My sister does that all the time. She’s so self centred and entitled. When things don’t go her way, she pulls out a victim hood stunt until one of us comforts hers.

[@MrMasterDebate]

My grandmother did this all the time. I made the mistake of moving in after someone died. She was a nonstop bullying when you couldn’t do everything for her. She would turn on the victim the second she needed to manipulate others to act for her. I was losing my mind and I was anxious all the time.. I was always wrong for no reason.

[@katarinawright1228]

@@MrMasterDebate Counselors were adamant for me not to move 'home' temporarily and I finally went ahead thinking "I can handle it". It's insane and I'm going to escape somehow. It's worse than the movie "Misery".

[@BabyMonkeyDefender]

I'm an empath and I have my limits. It took me years and years to learn to not respond and fall for the poor me manipulation. Narcs all around in so many areas of my life. Work, friend circles, even churches! My heart used to be so soft I couldn't stand a person to cry. My soul would crack. However, after finding myself feeling too many emotions that weren't even my own, I began to think I didn't want to live anymore. I had enough finally when I felt I was broken, but didn't want to be destroyed. I started finding ways to help myself overcome that extreme compassion and buffer myself against the manipulators that only wanted to play with my kind nature. I've gotten so good at it I can spot a game player from the beginning. After honing my radar so I could be there for anyone who truly needed me, I felt like a dark cloud parted and a feeling of contentment started creeping back in. I stopped feeling so drained that I needed a couple of weeks before I could be around others. I started feeling more energetic, and would feel invigorated after a friend in pain would seek me out for comfort and understanding. Eventually, without wasting my energy on a vortex of negativity and soul draining liar, I discovered I had tons of energy left for others. Being there for good people you'll find you come out of that with even more energy. There is nothing more energizing than helping a deeply hurting soul, and do it unconditionally. There is nothing more soul draining than a narc only sucking your true goodness for their own needs. I hate them, they are despicable. That is why it is a piece of cake to just walk away and give them zero attention or one second of my time. They are irrelevant. Turn away from them. You don't need their darkness. Other people worthy of your deep soul of compassion need that space the unworthy fill up with angst and negativity. Get rid of the poison.

[@cuspcat1566]

How did you do it? I am an empath as well and you told my story except i just opened my eyes about 1 year ago and I'm 35 😬. The hardest was realizing the biggest and first Narc i encountered was my own mom. I attract them because i can not stand to see another suffer. Takes me weeks to recover from being around people. They suck me dry. How did you learn to spot them? Any videos, teachers, resources if you'd like to share i would be grateful. Thanks 💛

[@arty5818]

@@cuspcat1566 recommend that you need to study about you. After I've suffered for all my life with many narcissistic people, I found some patterns. I also see my personality attracted to narcissists. The codependent behavior and empathy turned to a people pleaser. It takes very long time get over from a codependent and now I am free!!! I don't really care people bully me or not. I also not care so much that people like me or not. I accept who I am as I am and I love myself unconditionally. Learn to separate myself with others. I'm I am. They are who they are. I got zero responsible to help people who want me to help them. I simply ignore them. I only care my broken heart to heal and find peace and love in me.

[@kemaberry3538]

Amen!

[@katarinakopajova2174]

What a prolific text, thank you 💙

[@NikkiGRocks4Ever]

@DJ. Your comment is the truth.

[@CG-wl3cq]

He was always the victim. I cried after his hurtful words and he told me I was making him out to be "scummy" when he "knew" what he did wasn't that bad. My tears of pain were designed to manipulate, in his mind. He told me at almost the beginning of the relationship that he found emotion and crying to be disgusting and pathetic.

[@redefinedliving5974]

this only means that he cries to manipulate lol or maybe his parents did lol

[@kevthepoet]

How were you attracted to someone that finds emotion disgusting? I'm not judging, I'm asking myself how I was attracted to a covert narcissist but it's because they were covert about it.

[@CG-wl3cq]

@kevthepoet I didn't really think he was serious. I thought it was just a really strong way of saying he hated when he cried. Later, I realized he meant it about other people and he really felt that way.

[@brendablake584]

This went on for years between me and my Mother. The rest of my siblings didn't see this side of her until one Christmas she was visiting and made my 16 yr old son cry from the hurtful, mean things she said. I immediately took her to my brother's house and refused to come to Christmas dinner- I told everyone that was the last straw and I didn't want her back at my house. During the rest of the visit, she played victim- but when I refused to back down, she raged about me to the other family members and they FINALLY saw how she treated me and my kids. Still, when she was dying, it was one of my daughters and I that took care of her in her home with hospice care until she died. She was awful to deal with, but I know I did what the right thing and have no guilt, or regrets concerning her.

[@gingerreynolds2017]

My siblings still deny it. To the point my brother told me I was the only one who had a problem with her so, I must be the problem.

[@MrsPaulaTorres]

You don’t really miss her right? I feel like I won’t really miss my mother, I’ve been her black sheep so far in my life and I first time left her house at 12, walking to grandmas, sometimes I wonder 💭 will I have that grief over “my mommy in hell” as I see others posting on Mother’s Day about their deceased mothers but somehow I just see a hole 🕳 to remain after she exits this plane. She’s never taken care of me physically so I wouldn’t take care of her anyway, I am turning 32 tomorrow and I am accepting how things are, it’s a strange world

[@gabyjuen]

I'm so glad you stood up for your son 👏🏼

[@donnathedead7554]

@@MrsPaulaTorres No one can tell you how you will feel but, I can tell you I have felt nothing but relief about the narcissists that have died, including my own father. I also look forward to the other narcissist dying. Even though I have distanced from them, I still feel for those being made to tolerate their abuse. I was happy for my siblings and stepmother when he died. It was weird, none of us could say anything, but no one was crying about it either. Even in death they cause drama, with strange wills and things, but they still need other narcissists to do it. Just walk away and refuse any part of it.

[@1234nfd]

Wow - What a powerful and courageous story. Thank you for sharing

[@melissahoffman9433]

Mom is a pro at this. She’s so passive aggressive and triangulating and when I disagree with her and no longer buy into her bs I’m the bully. Her son is just like her and lives with her. I’ve gone NC. It’s for the best.

[@lovesakitas]

I did this with my mom, too (NC). At that point, it made all the difference in my mental health.

[@aLightShines]

❤️

[@Eliana_2911]

I could have written this comment. Mother is a narc, brother lives with her. He's very toxic & abusive too. Gone NC with the both of them. Ever since life has become more peaceful. I miss them but then I remember how nasty they are, especially when they are in the same room together.

[@melissahoffman9433]

@@Eliana_2911 I'm sorry you know how it is too. I'm so much happier now but yes I miss who I thought she was supposed to be. Her oldest that lives with her has always been a POS and now they just keep recycling their negativity... I grateful to be the black sheep.

[@traceyalex1722]

When you said "Oh, poor sad narcissist" I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I did a bit of both, the recognition was so strong.

[@lukasribin4168]

My father actually says “poor [his name, poor old little [his name]” out loud. It’s unbelievable. And who does he make the sole audience of this? The person who he bullies, the person who had a much worse nonexistent life..me. I can’t take it anymore. My reactions are now to walk away and ignore him or to tell him to cut the shit. If anyone walked in, they would probably think I was the mean, nasty one..but they would have no earthly idea just how much madness and destruction of my mental wherewithal occurred by his hands for YEARS before I finally snapped and had enough.

[@rokoroo]

Whenever my ex used to turn into the victim or do something especially nice for me, I started reminding myself "it's a package deal. You don't get 1 without the other."

[@gertrudewest4535]

Happens at work all the time and everyone falls for it. Reminds me of Brian Landrie when he was pulled over by the cops. In the end, he was given the hotel room to protect him from his victim that he murdered a few days later. It’s tragic how these people are running the world and all aspects of working class lives.

[@maravilloso002]

they definitely know the loopholes to camouflage their devious nature, and what laws protect them in case they get into situations where ppl catch them in the act being weird. It's amazing how well they can garner attention/sympathy from almost everyone b/c of their mental and physical states, while they get away Scott-free from oppressing others.

[@beelzebootthecanadiandevil9600]

If she had been arrested for domestic violence like she should have been and like he would have been, then she'd still be alive today. Ironyyyy

[@ericp.9497]

“I was just trying to help!” My spouse’s favorite explanation for her invalidating and marginalizing behavior.

[@Franky566]

"invalidation" "marginalization." judging by the buzzwords, you are apart of the problem.

[@emmanuelking9988]

At the end..."remember, narcissists aren't two people...they are just one, well oiled manipulation machine." 💥 And this (plus so many other reasons) is why Dr. Ramani is the leading narcissistic expert 🙏

[@crazedmaniacalkitty9554]

I had two people in my family who always focused on the dark cloud every time I tried to point out the silver lining. It was so exhausting trying to console them. I tried to help them come up with real solutions to their problems, but all they wanted was to be catered to. They did not care one bit about actually growing as individuals. These people are such an emotional drain.

[@ariellepoetry8299]

Yup. I've seen them bring up their childhood abuse... that is hard for any caring person because you know there's possible truth to it, but there is no excuse or free pass for inflicting and passing their trauma along. You can have compassion for the child they once were but make sure it's from a distance. Focus on who they are in the present when they do that.

[@BBcaskin]

Gosh yes, I had an ex-friend do this all the time. Immediately pull out their childhood sob story and accuse me of behaving like a bully just like their parents and how they're so upset and traumatized by this. Took me way too long to realize that it was all manipulation to try and deflect from them taking any accountability for their behavior.

[@reneerosie]

Been there!

[@whattwowhat]

yes! And when I pointed out that hyperfocusing on the past wasn't helping their present (everything they did was 'excused' by what happened 20+ years ago, and anything less than 100% blind compassion and servitude was "victim blaming"), they said *I* was the one obsessed with the past.

[@bigchicken5243]

thats what makes it so hard to deal with people qith a victim mentality.. my brother in law has this and i know how bad his school life was but he is not in the right to treat people bad because of this

[@ambergerbuns]

I’m about done with that line. Ever since I learned about this (thank god I learned about him and how to handle him simultaneously), and he could sense my quiet withdrawal, he has said, “you must not have been listening when I told you what I’ve been through.” And other iterations… No, idiot. YOU weren’t listening. I’ve dealt with narcissistic abuse since birth. Mom, mom married three spectacular specimens in a row, I married two - and now I’m pondering every single relationship I’ve ever had and seeing a pattern. At least a pattern of cheating, and my subservient behavior. I have been a pawn in many a narcissistic power struggle. But this guy takes the cake. I almost ended my own life from a sense of DUTY!!!!! And he’s mad that I didn’t!!!!!!! Freak.

[@huldagud]

The insulting/hurtful comments that you then react to and point out that were hurtful and demeaning he responds with "I was just joking!". Happened ALL the time in my relationship with my soon to be ex husband of 20+ years. And then of course I was accused of overreacting and being to sensitive!!! Great video Dr Ramani! You are a master at explaining this very complicated dynamic.

[@lovesakitas]

Always the same, these narcissists and their playbooks

[@just_peachy6582]

I get accused of everything, he would call me every name under the Sun and then accuse me , when I call out his projection then he will agree with me that I’m projecting.. it’s so exhausting and I’m over it . He has to make up lies because he has nothing on me to throw in my face , he is a terrible person and you know if he’s doing it then everyone else has to be too

[@wezinkwazi8179]

You’re not alone ❤️

[@deeempath220]

Same here.. 25 years! I just hope il get the freedom at the end of 2022🙏

[@lavanyabithu]

I deal with my narcissistic mother doing this every day in front of my family. I always know what she is trying to do so i can't help calling her out for it , and whenever i do i end up being the villain in any given situation. My father and sister sees it like I'm going a teenage phase and that just adds up to all the abuse.

[@kamilialambho8619]

People "forget" about the bullying sequences because they don't want to believe that narcissists are actually aware of their behavior even if they do whatever to get away with it. A bully-victim narcissist has no shame, they DO believe that their nasty schemes are superior intelligence, and that people who empathise and try to understand them are dummies. I no longer tire myself with the victim episodes' act of a narcissist once I called them out for it. I just let them be in their pathetic act and keep myself at bay...

[@alina2681]

Yessss!!!! "The victim-bully sequence confuses people, but once you as a strategy or a tactic by the narcissistic person it makes more sense than seeing it as the narcissist being two different people." I can soooooooooooo relate to that!!

[@arielm1112]

Wow.This is so accurate. Especially how a narcissistic person will victimize themselves by claiming how "misunderstood" they are by the very people who know them best. They gaslight and deflect instead of self-reflecting and doing the deep work with humility.

[@barbarahawkins7864]

Oooh... Great line: “they are not 2 people...” THAT is what kept me stuck for a good while... I kept trying to get “back to how if used to be!” 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@kellygaitten1551]

A year and a half after my divorce from the narcissist I still pop in. You have helped me so much. I'm glad to be done with the drama but need to remind myself to NEVER allow him back into my world!

[@allisonyates7209]

So happy for you. I can’t wait to get relief.

[@jane2303]

You GO girl!

[@jane2303]

@@allisonyates7209 Keep going, you can make it HAPPEN!

[@kirajw4247]

When I would say that he hurt me with his behavior, he used to say “If you only loved me more or understood me better, you wouldn’t feel bad about the way I treat you”. He would then cry and/or leave for a long time and I wouldn’t know when he would return.

[@samaralaliaabzu2837]

Recipe: once they are called out, IMMEDIATELY someone needs to say, "OK, now this is where you drop into 'victim mode'. Show everyone how well you can do that! " Then everyone can sit back and watch either the transformation or confirming rage! NEVER do this in private. That is when you should just walk away.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

I tried that with my mother, now she walks past me on the street.

[@epluribusunum1460]

@@SusanaXpeace2u every time she walks past you, you have escaped a devaluing moment, and that seems like victory to me. This community is with you here, Susan.

[@user-ey4rc5tu4t]

@@SusanaXpeace2u lucky you! Must have been a long overdue lesson.

[@epluribusunum1460]

This is brilliant and very satisfying to me as a scenario of justice, which almost never comes for the narcissist. But in my life it will remain a fantasy, and I need to live less in my fantasies, of being valued by the narcissist, especially. It is challenging when you have discovered that your perceived reality was never what was happening at all. This recovery has peaks and valleys and I keep learning about new aspects, but the scary part is seeing some of my own patterns and also seeing my own responsibility. This is not for sissies.

[@artifundio1]

I did that to my mom the last time we had a fight, more than 3 years ago. We were alone, but still. When she started crying I stood straight, took a big breath and with the most big eyes I had ever open I called her out. Crocodile tear drops. I was perplexed and proud of myself for being able to pull that off. I think she was shocked too and that was the main reason she took so long to start hoovering me (almost 1 year). She came back with her victim mode in november and managed to convince the genitor to let her into my building. Then she brought a letter in december, but I haven't read it. I am not made of steel. I still cried. But now I am educated and awared thanks to this community, in a big way.

[@victoriaroberts4186]

My dad is a narcissist and the other day I asked him to be accountable for giving me a sneering backhanded compliment. It was just like the scenario you talked about in this video except instead of "It was a joke" he was screaming at me while driving (I was in the passenger's seat) "IT WAS A COMPLIMENT! YOU ONLY INTERPRETED IT THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU WANT TO INSTIGATE CONFLICT. YOU DON'T THANK ME ENOUGH!" Then he just started scream at me that I need to respect him and that he would no longer help me move back to college for the school year. There is just no winning in this scenario. I asked him to pull over and left the vehicle and said I would not tolerate yelling.

[@TheWTFMatt]

wow you're a strong person!

[@doodleberry1164]

My step-daughter was the QUEEN at this. She was all-out bully, liar and constantly gaslighted me, then was always the victim to my husband. Her real mom was an alcoholic and my late husband had so much guilt for knocking up a drunkard while in his college bar-hopping years that my step-daughter was never wrong---even when she WAS, she wasn't. She figured this out early and PLAYED ON THIS for 20+ years. At my therapist's suggestion, in effort to keep my marriage in-tact, I started keeping a daily detailed journal to be able to catch her in her blatant lies about ME. It DID help. It didn't stop her completely, but it sure slowed down her mind games when she constantly had to back her lies with facts and couldn't! The ONE good thing that came from my husband's passing was allowing her to leave my life for good. If this helps just ONE person out there---then it was worth the time I took to type it all! :)

[@yea0000]

wow.. i hope guilt eats her alive now that her father she treated so poorly isn’t there. but who knows she sounds so evil maybe she’s mad she can’t keep doing that. i’m sry for ur loss & that u had to deal wit that. shame on her

[@angelawade1445]

I know exactly where you are coming from. Because we are step mothers we are always blamed. Some stepmothers are good decent people. I had to finally cut my stepdaughter out of my life completely after 20 years of abuse. I just feel bad now because I have to watch her treat my poor husband badly. I am so thankful for Dr Carter. My husband loves her and although he knows she is stubborn and loves drama (his words), he doesn't think she knows how she hurts him. So very sad. She hurts him to hurt me so in the end she still gets to me. His ex encourages her which only makes it worse. I am now just doing what is best for me. That is all I can do. I know it would be hard for anyone to go no contact with their child.

[@mavahlatur1]

The narcissists in my life were always presenting themselves as the best ones, yet nothing was ever their fault. Took me years to realize this. Thank you Ramani for always finding the right words.

[@nikkicrystal6922]

I am watching these as my bedtime routine. Thank. You... your impacting so many people. This is my only support by living in exactly what your talking of every aspect. Your so appreciated for your content.

[@epluribusunum1460]

My only support, too, and I’m grateful like you.

[@nicj5354]

I grew up with a covert narcissist. She set me up to marry a malignant narcissist. Now I'm divorced and living with the covert narcissist again (temporarily while I get back on my feet). The difference is now I can't be manipulated. It's so much better from up here!

[@PhantomWanderer]

This is my husband and it’s how he got me. He played the victimized father trying to do good by his kids but he keeps picking the wrong women. I tried to help him by getting him to therapy and being a “good wife and step mom”. But over time I started seeing his behaviors and tactics and would turn around and play victim. When he left he tried to say that I was the toxic one. And that he took his kids from one toxic person to another, he has such a hard time picking women. He thought I would be different 🙄. Family therapist didn’t buy it.

[@joseehill5994]

❤️ The gifts…I hate gifts now! They really just make me feel guilty. Like now I owe them something or else I’m “using” them.

[@lynettecaballero1660]

Agree,they will use that and say we used them to play victim and build up their ego to get more appreciation,attention,admiration...thank goodness we don't need that external validation for our self esteem and self worth. There will never be enough external things,people money,gifts etc... validation for them. They don't realize the best gifts are free,internal...kindness,respect Understanding,care,empathy...cuz they hate themselves,have guilt,shame,perfection standards....and are into ego,false god not the real God. Full of false beliefs,Evil choices, they keep choosing to please their selfcentered,self entitled ego,flesh. An endless cycle that hurts them most and others too. ..til we leave.

[@nefarioussagittarius8906]

Yep, yep, yep and yep. I warned my mother that if she continued to be passive aggressive and verbally abusive I'd pay my month of the expenses and then leave. When I followed through she threw a tantrum. I don't mean the expression. An actual tantrum. Tears, raging, telling me I was a rotten person who didn't treat HER like a human being, somehow it was also my Dad's fault and everyone under the sun's fault except hers. Though it was her behavior that drove me off and her behavior that lost her the second income I brought. Even though she spent months nitpicking everything I did and interrogating me every time I went out when I was an adult with a job and deserved respect in my own right. Not that a teenager deserves the verbal and emotional mind fuckery I went through either. I wasn't going to live in a place where I had to walk on eggshells and be afraid all the time. I am not going to live in a place where I get the silent treatment for two weeks, because I left a pair of socks in the bathroom. No one should. Let them scream about how you used them or abused them, but they can live in their victim delusion alone. They will lie to you, themselves and everyone who will listen about how you betrayed them. No. They do it to themselves. Let them learn that cause has effect and the shitty crap they pull has consequences. Even so, they aren't going to change, but at least you're out of there.

[@isabelkelly7717]

Yep, that ol "you treat me less than human".

[@susieneville5612]

Verbal and emotional mind fuckery.....my childhood experience!!

[@jemmac5433]

oof. felt your frustration in my soul. Happy that you're away from them tho♥♡

[@englishlady9797]

Yup my mother is like this, only less tantrums (although she does have them). I had to have a 2 hour long row with her just to be allowed to use my own money to buy a car. I was an adult, in my 30s and she was determined I was not going to be allowed to have my own transport, because I guess it equalled freedom. She was *unspeakably* controlling and the micromanaging was incesssant. Of course, she'd play the victim if I objected: her favourite one when micromanaging me was "I'm just trying to help!". Which must be one every victim of a narcissist has heard. When I was at home, she was sometimes asking me what I was doing 15-20 times per day, demanding I recount every conversation I had with every single person when I had been out. Or she'd come out with weirdly specific questions about things I had done days, even weeks before. She once made a huge deal because my grandma gave us a lasanga to eat for dinner when she was away on holiday, because we didn't make what she had told us to that day or something. She'd deliberately picks fights over anything, big or small for her narcissistic fuel.

[@yea0000]

sum people can’t help themselves bc they never got the help they needed for themselves. so their need to control controls them, lmao. so stupid how they don’t see that. anyways, she couldn’t help but control you even after you stated a boundary. & it cost her relationship wit you. walking away was a good decision, nobody should have to live on eggshells. I’m sry u experienced that & wish u all the best moving forward wit ur life. it’s always good to have friends who can be ur support system, when ur family maybe can’t. my friends have helped me even if it’s jus hanging out, so I hope you have sum ppl in ur corner. it’s difficult sumtimes even when ur not in the toxic situation anymore. I hope anyone who treats their family that poorly has an epiphany & acts right before it’s too late. sum things i’ll never forget, & no one should have to relive their bad memories. sum times it’s jus not worth our peace to try & repair a relationship. happy for you that you were able to leave the situation.

[@jake90009]

They buy you expensive gives so you feel you owe them

[@Dr.LittleMissBrains-lg3pn]

Since the day I called her out, I was constantly blaming myself and second doubting all of my actions and decisions. She made me feel so bad for telling her that she treated me and my family badly. Made me feel that her intentions were never wrong, it was me who didn’t perceive it in the right spirit. Even questioned that my state of mind isn’t well. This video has helped me to understand this situation better. Thank you so much Dr.Ramani. I am an aspiring psychiatrist. Looking forward to learn more from you 💛

[@noemy7134]

Finally... I really needed this. All of it represent my whole Family dinamic, and me, as the most sensitive one, took all the guilt and shame... took me painful years to finally get out of that mess

[@MJ-qb5ph]

You too huh? Me two years no contact with the lot of them. Bless

[@crescendo2441]

The 'I'm the victim' bully is my mum, and the 'I'm just joking' bully is my ex. I wish I could've come across this information decades ago. It would've saved me years of stress, pain and trauma at the hands of those two.

[@rebeccaglaze3707]

So self-centered and says “I’ve bent over backwards for everyone so now I’m going to put me first…”

[@michelepascoe6068]

I noticed that my covert mother played the victim more subtly with people who were less involved, but she could really ham it up with the flying monkeys who believed anything she said or did.

[@shangabeads]

OMG! They seem to be everywhere! All day, every day, I'm buried in a pit of narcissists! I can obviously see the bully whenever it's being presented. Who amongst us cannot? I can perceive the victim, too! The crestfallen face, the altered breathing, the flush response in the face, the defensive posture; I can and do note it all! I'm so good at recognizing the narcissists around me - out of necessity - that I hadn't taken the time to recognize the more safe folks around. Quite frankly, I'm holding on by my last fingernail to the hope that there are enough good, caring, safe people somewhere out there that it's worth the work to learn their "signs"! I rue the fact that I spent all my past and even my present learning every nuance about these folks and leaving myself completely clueless about how to spot a good, kind person with any surety. I just realized, I'm a pro when it comes to narcissists. How do I learn to recognize the safe?

[@rayarena879]

Yes! They're everywhere. It's pretty disheartening. [sigh]

[@SrnDpT-ti1xs]

I'm in there with you.

[@salonsavy6476]

I’m the same way !,,, I have Narc Radar !

[@artifundio1]

I hear you! I think that some of us have the "luck" to get stucked in clusters of narcissists. I have noticed they have magnetism towards each other. They can make big groups of "friends" who talk and drink together, upload photos smiling and all, but they never listen to eachother. They can barely remember what the next person's last name or real name is (if they use a nickname). They have what appears like normal lifes, but so shallow. Believe in you. And believe in Dr Ramani when she talks about charisma being a "pay attention warning".

[@epluribusunum1460]

@@salonsavy6476 I call it my Nadar.