The Nature of Clichés - Honest Thoughts

[@FROchinima]

Cliché are like the bones of a story, however if you can see your bones poking out through your skin, just like an obvious cliché, it might be bad.

[@SomeFreakingCactus]

Great analogy!

[@DetectiveNyx]

It's fiiiiine, my femur bone is supposed to be poking out of my arm because that's where my magical Mary Sue powers come from!

[@Klarpimier]

@@DetectiveNyxMa'am I believe you need to go to the hospital

[@iamchristiancraig]

Really good way to put it.

[@agent_ocelot9390]

This is a fantastic quote.

[@raultoichoa1574]

"Cliches are not good, cliches are not bad, cliches simply are" well you certainly know how to be meta.

[@scottmantooth8785]

could you not fall into the trap of writing or developing your own personal cliches?

[@abluecircle7753]

cliches are good depending in which way u use deadpool acting is the perfect (the man know how cliche the momment is and killing the momment fast)

[@hirandompeopled4968]

sr invisivel ...

[@eliasa2318]

Meta stands for how make someone politely fuck off by confusing them?

[@hboogy101]

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TropesAreTools

[@Shins_Jim]

Street Urchin: "Sorry sir! I'll be more careful next time." *Kid walks away* Companion: "That kid looked suspicious. Check your coin purse." *Antihero character checks belongings* Companion: "Well?" Antihero: "He didn't take my coins, but I'm missing my bag of fingers..." Companion: "BAG OF WHAT?!" *Distant screams of terror echoes throughout the streets*

[@ironmilutin]

i dunno... did you mention the bag of fingers in act 1?

[@charlx8979]

See thats a good trope subversion

[@kingmonster]

That actually sounds like how a "Cyanide and Happiness" clip would play out.

[@faithcole607]

Can someone write a book with that happening. I would read it.

[@pandabear7042]

Balthazar best comment of the year

[@tigerbend1964]

Pickpocket skyrim style: Kid bumps into me. Oof still have my coins Gaurd:"sir, why are you naked?"

[@yeetnats8972]

this was like Penny from Adventure Time

[@gkgk6439]

tiger bend Good one sir 😂

[@quinnmcgee7323]

@@yeetnats8972 Adventure Time might be the king of subverting cliches.

[@yeetnats8972]

@@quinnmcgee7323 i love adventure time while i was growing up

[@quinnmcgee7323]

@@yeetnats8972 Honestly, I stil do.

[@jankansi5679]

How good are you at dodging all the grey blobs with your computer mouse? BEGIN

[@Jake-sw3ss]

it's hard

[@contentcreator8750]

jan Kansi underrated comment

[@dominicemerald387]

a brawl is surely brewing

[@Xenwarrior5]

I'm stuck on mobile...

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

My skills at Danmaku will shine today!

[@leratoslittlecorner]

"Step 1: don't panic" It's too late for that

[@nualacassidy]

Same

[@bootnell]

In large friendly letters on the cover.

[@ronniemirano7120]

You're a potato don't worry the alien over lords won't suspect you and you'll be able to hide among the many and find your way to your stories token love triangle.

[@germanvisitor2]

Ok, panic a little.

[@bard5865]

Lilly The Potato Reminded me of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[@TheMilitantHorse]

As was once famously said about the film Casablanca, "Two cliches makes a bad film, one hundred makes a classic."

[@TarigonTetradactyl]

TheMilitantHorse a classic joke

[@nasserfirelordarts6574]

Well... Could, I mean... Yeah... Actually, this makes sense... The GodFather

[@alfredtunes5893]

@@nasserfirelordarts6574 I dont think that aplies to the Godfather, since another thing about judging a story's clichés is the story's antiquity, some stories become so rooted to the popular culture that instead of they containing many clichés, many clichés are originated by the story instead. I think that was what the phrase of the first comment refers to

[@nasserfirelordarts6574]

@@alfredtunes5893 well said

[@mslightbulb]

Top secret is pretty much an exaggeration of all the cliches that happened in spy films, but it exaggerates them to such a point that they become so utterly nonsensical and bizarre that you can’t help but be amazed and surprised at how broken this universe is.

[@lordofsandvich3630]

“Are clichés bad?” Let’s ask Princess Bride, a movie made entirely out of clichés that is a well-known and beloved classic

[@Laura-be8nl]

Yeah! And the novel is so great and funny too!

[@malcolmlloydandrileyproduc6451]

Never heard of it

[@minchai2943]

Because it was new at the time

[@twmd4now]

Woow .. i thought it was a saracastic movie .. so that i enjoyed it .. i laughed my ass there . Until i discovered the harshfull truth ... and then i hate it .

[@Somespideronline]

@@twmd4now truth???

[@OxyWorgon]

In the anime Kill La Kill the hero is eating an orange. Later a kid bumps into and pick pockets the MC as the child runs past. “Oldest trick in the book.” *kid pulls out orange* “WHAT, I WAS SURE I GRABBED HER WALLET!” The MC then appears behind the child and taunts them while grabbing her food back. Not only is this funny, but it also shows that the MC is wise to this sort of thing; so much infact, that she some how even tricked the thief into taking the wrong item. I really like this interaction.

[@OxyWorgon]

I wasn't sure if it was or not. Took the 50-50 and lost. Also, your comment fits your name XD

[@toastycafe]

Now I need to watch Kill La Kill because not only that interaction, but because the main character casually eats a *lemon* like its no big deal. Lemons are sour. I learned that in fourth grade the hard way.

[@Awesomeasumpta13]

One of the many reasons I love Ryuko.

[@sebastianchavez1225]

@@toastycafe So, how was it?

[@SurBallen]

How was it?

[@DrShaym]

Complaining about clichés is a cliché.

[@jennifercorbett8640]

Logical as usual, Shaym.

[@Tracequaza]

haha you have no shaym amirite

[@verytired2399]

*Makes sense*

[@njb1126]

Then avoid them like the plague

[@somestranger4287]

Talking about how complaining about cliches is cliche is a cliche

[@jaiyapapaya]

Remember guys, you can use a cliche and make it work just don't rely on it. Spice it up and add your own flair!

[@ironmilutin]

you can't tell me what to do to my love triangle between a Mary Sue, a hot vampire boy and a hot warewolf boy

[@sosig6445]

Iron M you should make sure that their love is unexplained and no sane person could understand what do they see in each other...

[@vincentmuyo]

The thief is actually a giant robot! ... Now my protagonist is a fine red paste. I may need to adjust this a bit.

[@CaptainZangoose]

Wow, it's like you watched the same video as all of us!

[@jaiyapapaya]

Captain Zangoose but little do you know, I DID

[@GuytFromWayBack]

Clichés are not good Clichés are not bad either Clichés are neutral A little haiku for you all to enjoy.

[@INFERNO95]

Boyt McCue Over used cliches are bad.

[@broski9938]

Haha Funny

[@blinkachu05]

Wow. That fits like knights in a fanasty story

[@kayhaych05]

Boyt McCue Apollo is that you?

[@blinkachu05]

@@kayhaych05 What?

[@TheReadingWerewolf]

I really like the idea of playing with clichés rather than avoiding them all together.

[@malks2500]

TheReadingWerewolf yeah, I think a real key is just to be aware of them. I wrote a story where characters were after a very obvious mcguffin but because the story was more character based and story was secondary to me, it turned out pretty well.

[@whosaidthat84]

I wrote a short story about a Saturday morning cartoon superhero team fighting s guy named Lord Villacus. It's certainly not what one would expect.

[@Hot18Shot]

You guys should post some of your stories here, they sound a bit interesting.

[@arnaud7008]

@@malks2500 what's mcguffin?

[@jaydex8518]

@@arnaud7008 its what both the heroes and villains are after. its usually a gem or something

[@Mimi-dq5bv]

My art teacher taught me a very important "rule" that is true of any artistic medium- you must know the rules in order to successfully break them.

[@Yoxiv]

Clichés are like salt and pepper. Alone, they're just plain bad. But when sprinkled carefully within a narrative, they can be just as effective as any new and original idea. It's as you said, a clichéd plot device is not inherently bad, it's when the story follows nothing but cliché after cliché like someone who just salts up their meal until it's all they can taste and not the food they're eating. Yes, it's the dreaded food analogy. Sue me.

[@hsmacaraig]

Yoxiv I like raw salt. Don’t ask.

[@lguffee4930]

*Doug Doug would like to know your location*

[@akrinornoname2769]

Raw pepper is awesome!

[@CrashD6]

"Sue me" I won't, but Mary Sue... e.e

[@theteethburglar4716]

Me, chewing on my 8 ball of raw salt for the day: I’m sorry what?

[@theresastarmanwaitinginthe5149]

No love triangle?! Disliked, unsubscribed, flagged!

[@nejlaakyuz4025]

Reported to FBI

[@Riverfall_]

I came here expecting 10 mins long video about love triangles and this is what I get. Disliked, unsubscribed, flagged! :) NVM... still it's really strange to get a normal video out of this channel. It goes against the theme of the channel though.

[@carlclever7538]

There's a starman waiting in the sky ...the guards fall in love with the protagonist while the protagonist is longing for the thief, the love triangle is always there you just have to have faith and look within yourself

[@deadlypandaghost]

HES BEEN HACKED

[@Youmama187]

Disliked, unsubscribed, flagged? Thats now the love triangle

[@Aurichalcam]

So essentially take old, worn out ideas and either replace them, or tweak them to be used slightly differently? This is actually a highly useful video since there is so much pressure upon writers and other artists to be completely original. There's nothing wrong sticking to formula, as long as you give it some of your own originality.

[@TheFranchiseCA]

If a cliché does exactly what you want, sometimes it can be fine to leave as is, too. At its core, this advice is to be aware of the narrative baggage of common tropes, so what is experienced by the reader resembles what was intended.

[@Nionivek]

People forget that the reason why clichés exist is because they work, or at least worked.

[@nerdherd1819]

The only story I have written anything substantial of and actually asked a friend to take a look and say what she thinks (she actually liked it) it was about basically using tropes as a means to create the worst story ever told but in such a way that it was a great story. That explains exactly Jack diddly squat but that's my best explanation.

[@Rainbowthewindsage]

The idea that writers need to be completely orginal 100% is weird, especially because a lot of those same people will tell you to read the classics and a lot of the classics used ideas from other works. For example, the ending to Romeo and Juliet was ripped out of one of Ovid's Metamorphosies (I wish I could remember the name but it's basically an explanation of why mulberry trees are red) and I say ripped because Shakespeare pretty much copied it with a few alterations.

[@megelizabeth9492]

Yeah, there’s nothing new under the sun (including that quote), and it’s not a bad thing. TV Tropes even has a page called the Tropeless Tale, to demonstrate the sheer impossibility of writing just that. Tropes are tools, and what matters is how you use them.

[@ExplosiveBrohoof]

"The reason that cliches become cliches is that they are the hammers and screwdrivers in the toolbox of communication." -Terry Pratchett.

[@horserage]

He just, uses that quote though?

[@Papada00]

The thing is... an original story may not be good either. For example, human centipede.

[@Rainbowthewindsage]

To this day I don't understand how people made that movie. Or its sequels.

[@Kayla-by7kr]

We shall not talk about that movie😖😟

[@Papada00]

@@kain7513 you missed the original part... which is stiching people's mouth on another person's anus to form a long chain of human centipede.

[@Papada00]

@@kain7513 sure. Whatever you say.

[@forkrolls]

But it's good wdym?

[@WoobooRidesAgain]

Hey, here's an idea for a subversion of that whole "thief kid runs into wealthy noble" thing you mentioned that I thought up. The kid bumps into the nobleman, whose knowledge of the poor and where they live stems primarily from...trashy adventure novels! So when the kid bumps into the nobleman, the nobleman immediately assumes that the kid is a thief, grabs him, and starts yelling at him to give him back whatever he stole. The kid, genuinely not knowing what the nobleman is talking about, begins crying as the nobleman continues to insist that he must have stolen something, basing his assumption entirely on the stereotype. At this point, either the nobleman realizes what an utter heel he's being and lets the kid go, or he attracts the attention of _actual_ criminals, or alternatively, gets confronted by bunch of angry citizenry who only see a bigoted noble accosting a child. Either way, the noble comes to realize his own naivete about the area he's in, and finds himself questioning his own presumptions about people based on where they live, how they look and etc. Hey, I think I can do this : D

[@scratchy996]

Sounds like me, when I got to the city for the first time, and I almost stabbed a guy. Because I have seen enough movies to know that big cities are just filled with thieves and robbers.

[@Sea-zu4bj]

Pretty trash story ngl

[@ponponpatapon9670]

@@Sea-zu4bj "wow guys if i say a story IN A KZbin COMMENT is bad people will think i'm cool!!"

[@Sea-zu4bj]

PON PON PATA PON WOW GUYS IF I COMPLIMENT A STORY IN THE COMMENT SECTION IM SMART

[@qrstasdf6473]

You beat me to the idea

[@GlitchyShadow13]

"terrible writing advice" uploads a video with good writing advice the universe is falling in on itself

[@ironmilutin]

There wasn't even a love triangle... THE HORROR

[@qwertyzxcvbn6929]

Yeah, the lack of love triangles made me unsub.

[@cresentcube5898]

The biggest problems? The act of avoidng a cliche also became a cliche.

[@ironmilutin]

Ummm.... no. There's only one "starting" cliche but there are countless ways of reskinning it and playing with your readers expectations

[@condorboss3339]

+cresentcube That is a danger. I have seen a lot of stories that try to avoid cliches but wind up getting themselves entangled in a complex mess.

[@imbreadth11r5]

now that's meta

[@erickmartinez5631]

you can't avoid clichés, you need to transform them

[@warlordera5409]

Same with avoiding tropes. The act of subverting it or whatever is a trope. There's no avoiding it. But it's how you use it that matters.

[@HappiestSadGuy]

Are you a teacher? You would be a good teacher.

[@HebaruSan]

You should have said "You would be an awful teacher" to subvert the cliche of praiseful comments

[@trunkulent]

HebaruSan You should have said something entirely irrelevant to subvert the love triangles are the best cliché.

[@ComradeDragon1957]

HappiestSadGuy I loved my creative writing teacher in HS,but i would have loved it if JP replaced him when he broke his leg,two months of JP teaching us terrible writing advice!

[@Titanic_Tuna]

He is a teacher, I mean he's teaching you!

[@animatrix1490]

I feel like cliches (at least as defined in this video) are like bacteria. You don't want all the bacteria in your body dead--some of them are super good and help you digest and stuff. Other bacteria will KILL you if you leave them alone. It's just a matter of knowing which one is which and taking steps to appropriate treatment.

[@orie9912]

Even good bacteria can be lethal if they get to the bloodstream, the same cliches can be good or bad depends on how you use them.

[@HailSatanLLC]

Isn't avoiding cliches cliche in itself?

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

Yes.

[@miguelpadeiro762]

Isn't death penalty for murder murder in itself?

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+Mr. Karl McYoda Yes.

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

I kinda like some cliches.

[@miguelpadeiro762]

@Apathetic Apparition Murder is killing and killing is murder...synonyms...

[@calvinbarboza]

Great parody man. I can't wait until you get back into serious advice though, I'm currently thinking about my great post apocalyptic school novel with a chosen one stuck in a perilous love triangle. I haven't written it yet but it's got a great idea I can't tell you about our else it will be stolen.

[@ironmilutin]

Sounds like a shit idea, doesn't even have an alien invasion or leather wearing bikers gangs

[@calvinbarboza]

Iron M then you'll love the twist.

[@guardian9394]

Easily the best comment here.

[@jcmg5356]

Calvin Barboza Don't forget about the evil empire and the antihero.

[@jbdbibbaerman8071]

Environmentalist message?

[@bremcurt9514]

A honest writing advice? Sounds pretty neat and I would like to see more, but don't replace it with honest only please. Keep up the great work, You are the chosen one!

[@rafliavriza3651]

Brem Curt Agree with you, Sir!

[@bremcurt9514]

Rafli Avriza Thank you sir, let's drink a cup of tea now on our new chosen one!

[@3fromchina]

Brem Curt | Same!

[@yaelriffkin5]

There are so many honest writing advice channels, what makes this channel unique is its ability to give good advice in a sarcastic and entertaining way.

[@kiyasuihito]

For real!

[@dizzysaliche3529]

Some cliches are actually good, such as that wonderful love dodecahedron

[@miles6283]

That's a REQUIREMENT in young adult fiction

[@ariksanderstuckwisch1604]

I've started writing a story where I'm purposefully using ideas I think are bad, just see if I can still make the work. There is a love icosadekahedron (I think that's what it was) as in there are 25 love interests.

[@willowbarrelmaker8269]

Ariksander Stuckwisch please share that because it sounds like it could be fucking hilarious.

[@ariksanderstuckwisch1604]

Chay Cortright I'll share a link once I get a bit more done.

[@epherium8177]

Leaving a comment here just so I get notified

[@MsLilly200]

Urchin: *Bumps into Hero* Sorry! Woman: BILLY!!! WHAT HAVE I TOLD YOU ABOUT DOING THIS!? Hero: ??? Woman: I am so sorry about my son. Here's your coin purse back. Urchin: But mooom....! Woman: *Grabs Urchin by the ear* No Billy! We do not rob lost nobles that obviously, we don't want the guards getting all fired up. Hero: ???

[@ladydovaky8491]

@Viacheslav Krilov i mean it could still serve a purpose if the woman and/or the urchin appear later in the story though no?

[@NeverbitFG]

​@Viacheslav Krilov it still may become something more valuable if the "rob lost nobles that obviously" part is then played with. For example, the hero is indeed tricked by the family, following with a funny sarcastic remark from the hero about "not being obvious", since the said hero now knows both the culprits' faces. Or the hero being already pickpocketed, so the moment he takes back the purse, he realises it has much less money that was initially there - the punchline would be on hero not realising the obvious and being incidentally brightened by a random, *even more obvious* theft which the hero still didn't pick up on.

[@mrtalos]

Urchin bumps into hero, steals coin pouch. Friend of hero points out theft, only for hero to point out that they didn't have any money, just a bag of gravel. Then they pull out a coin pouch and say, "Well, at least until that urchin bumped into me. Better still, this should be the correct currency for this district" Hero opens bag revealing gravel. "dammit, must have been same kid as last time I came here"

[@milesgoering3755]

The sheer number of cliché subversions tied together here is amazing.

[@an2qzavok]

A thief steals some money from a noble, but being young and inexpirienced, and not knowing how to deal with such an immence wealth, he attracts attention of some other criminals in the market and gets himself killed. Said criminals attempts at dividing the spoils start a chain of backstabbing, betrayal and revenge, and soon what began as a small local conflict over a few coins, grows into a full out gang war. Meanwhile the noble and his group of secret police officers are trying to locate and get back important family relic that was in the stolen purse.

[@JulienBrightside]

That sounds like the movie Snatch.

[@mr.cup6yearsago211]

Boom, butterfly effect.

[@kayhaych05]

Love it

[@azarishere6442]

failing@commenting sounds intresting

[@IamEscBoy]

i'm gonna use this

[@sarthakverma1030]

Plot twist: This episode is sarcastically sarcastic, so it's all fine. It's just a high tier episode.

[@Vgamer311]

Sarthak Verma when you're being so sarcastic you come full circle and end up back where you started

[@agiar2000]

When you accidentally employ Poe's Law against yourself.

[@kindoflame]

He has achieved Strider level of irony. We are in the presence of greatness.

[@KajsaBernhardina]

I love how Legolas just randomly hanging out in the creepy marketplace

[@coralcrowglow]

I find it funny to think that there was a time when all modern clichés were fantastic original ideas.

[@psy-fi64]

I'd imagine the first clichés originated from before formalized writing even began

[@idiotgoddess2114]

Unpopular opinion: *I don't mind having silly videos, but I feel we need some more videos about honest opinions. They are just very underrated in my own honest opinion*

[@matityaloran9157]

He used to link his honest thoughts in the description

[@BeerByTheNumbers]

First... wait that's a comment cliche! Damn I'm so bad at writing!

[@80ki68]

*Insert cliche comment here.*

[@AvianNana]

*insert x here* is also a cliche

[@80ki68]

That was my point lol.

[@Healermain15]

But pointing out the cliche-ness of First comments is also a meta-cliche.

[@londonbrigid3617]

It's the circle of clichés.

[@manosvarto7205]

1 minute in and no love triangle , UNWATCHABLEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[@nejlaakyuz4025]

Disliked unsubscribed flagged reported to FBI

[@silviarossi2690]

i read that in lemongrab's voice... it was intentional, right? :P

[@manosvarto7205]

yes it was

[@MH_Zard]

george gamer Shit taste xp Does no one appreciate the complexity and charm of love dodecahedrons anymore?

[@manosvarto7205]

too complex and hard to pull off

[@sirtacovi3262]

I like how the anti-hero is hiding in that alleyway to... I dunno, offer the hero protection or something?

[@justbny9278]

Sir Taco VI maybe someone who admires the hero,and sees how brave he is to be in a place where he might be robbed,maybe have people bump into to the hero to show how mean the people in that place are,may have people go to the hero in hope he saves them from potential thiefs....

[@Underworlder5]

probably a "i will join you if you can beat me in a fight" scenario

[@a.morphous66]

“Hey kid, wanna buy some terrible writing advice?”

[@scratchy996]

He's just doing is so he can show he doesn't give a damn, not like he cares if other people see him not give a damn, he just likes do it in public for some reason...

[@elroyscout]

Honest writing advice? [Immediately panics]

[@markengamer5649]

actually *_GOOD_* writing advice?!?!?!?! BLASPHEMY

[@cynaxis4002]

The game Morrowind dealt with the chosen one prophecy in an interesting way. A prophecy says Morrowind will be saved by a stranger born on a specific day from unknown parents. Of course it's your case. But as you progress in the story you learn that there is more to it, and you don't match with the rest. Then you encounter spirits of dead people born the same day from unknow parents, and there you learn that you have to work to fulfill the prophecy, and they are the people that tried and failed. So of course in the end the prophecy talked about you, but you had to work your way to be the one about it, you are not from the start, and you were not even the only one to try to fulfill it. It was a twist on this cliché that I liked a lot. But I suppose it's not the only time a prophecy was used that way, it's just the one I'm aware of.

[@hobbyistcontrarian4389]

Prophecies are fun to play with. Shakespeare and Tolkien both put interesting new spins on the old "no man can kill me" line, and _The Matrix_ gave us genuine reasons to doubt whether the protagonist was actually the chosen one or not. I think the trick is doubt. If the reader knows for definite then all the tension is immediately drained from the story. I've been toying with a few high fantasy ideas in my own head recently, and I think a situation where a group of characters become the chosen ones who were never supposed to be creates an interesting dynamic. They have to shape up real quick and become heroes, because the mantle was thrust upon them even though they don't want it.

[@Doc51499]

Cynaxis as I recall at the end of morrowind the place was wiped out by a volcano soooooooooooooooo was it really saved or?

[@Doc51499]

Hobbyist Contrarian yeah and in Moby dick captain Shan thinks he's immortal because "only a rope can kill me" not realizing that it wasn't referring to the hangman's noose but rather the rope attached to the harpoon he threw at moby dick that then wrapped around his foot

[@jasonfenton8250]

Yeah Azura was basically just throwing bodies at the problem, if she did it enough times, one of the incarnates would prove himself as Nerevarine.

[@Bird_Dog00]

Horatio Nelson I'm not too familiar with Morrowind but that does fits quite well with the picture I got from the Daedra myself. Even - or especialy - the ones generaly percieved as the "good" (or at least "not so horrible") ones. Btw. Are the Aedra any better or do they only seem that way because we see less direct interactions with the inhabitants of mundus from them?

[@HumanisticJones]

Look at that dark brooding character in the alley way, certainly he must be important and possibly integral to a love triangle. Also, great real writing advice on ACTUALLY using a cliche in creative ways instead of just pulling the "we totally just did that cliche, wink, nudge, eh? eh?"

[@blondbraid7986]

Yes, and I'm pretty tired of seeing writers trying to justify bad dialog and stupid plot twists by pointing out that they know how bad and stupid it is. To me it just makes it worse, since it means that the creators knew their writing was terrible, but went ahead regardless.

[@Tavdogg11]

Foreshadow towared the anti heri video

[@Tavdogg11]

I mean hero

[@arrontheprotogen9276]

@@Tavdogg11 car

[@CrimsonDragon15]

What about when the thief pickpockets the hero, feels all smug, then turns around only to find the hero followed him? "Really kid, that's the oldest trick in the book!" Also, I liked this honest video. I hope we get to see more of them, together with your sarcastic videos.

[@alexlee4154]

Theif opens purse Piece of paper 'Nice try kid'

[@zachariaravenheart]

Man, you give the best advice with and without sarcasm

[@relytdragon5626]

In an RPG game I ran, I used the thief street urchin in the beginning of the story, but with the intent to see how the players reacted and treated the child. I did this because I was going to do some wibbly wobbly time stuff and have them run in to the child again, but this time grown up, and remembering and having changed due to the actions took, such as if they dealt harshly with the child he would have grown a resentment of them, and attacked them when seeing them again. or if simply turned in to the authorities they might get better, but still dislike the characters, but be civil enough. When treated kindly and helped out, the child went from thief to friend who, upon seeing them many years later welcomed them and thanked them.

[@Skrill99]

How did the players react?

[@terryhunsicker1615]

Serious Video!? WHAT SORCERY HAS THE CHOSEN LOVE TRIANGLE PUT UPON YOU!

[@masterrance]

He's in a love triangle with being serious and being sarcastic. There's truly no escape

[@themagicalnoodle8983]

Terry Hunsicker the evil vilan with the weid mustashe did it

[@terryhunsicker1615]

Send Mary Sue the Chosen One to defeat them!

[@merrittanimation7721]

magical noodle No it's that evil emperor guy

[@vnleao]

Internet: "I know what you are" TWA: "Say it. Out loud. Say it!" Internet: "Trope"

[@jordanhamann9123]

I like your definition of tropes, whenever I mention tvtropes.com no one ever even knows what a trope is and I struggle to explain it.

[@blondbraid7986]

Yes, too many people can't tell the difference between tropes and cliches. There is a huge difference between a writer that knows how to use common tropes and themes, and someone just regurgitates a bunch of half-remembered stuff they copied form better works. It's the difference between baking a cake and just chucking a bunch of fat and sugar onto a plate.

[@spacebarisntworking7530]

This is really good advice. Thanks mate. *Robs him*

[@ironmilutin]

WAIT!!! THIEF!!! *catches up to you* *punches you to the ground* *takes the money and runs away*

[@arandomqueerfanpeep7655]

Iron M *Chases **_you_* *Returns most of money*

[@CoffeeSnep]

What if when the street urchin bumps into the protagonist and apologizes, the protagonist pick pockets _him!_ Despite never pick pocketing anyone before in his life! They won't be expecting that now _will_ they? Cliche Averted!

[@squarcircle2254]

Ethan Metcalf I don’t think that’s a good way to avert such a cliche because it won’t make logical sense if you think about it. The MC picks the pocket of an experienced thief without having had any previous experience? That’s impossible in human context so it wouldn’t make sense and would be seen as contrived, trying too hard to avert a cliche or seem different.

[@Chan-qk9eh]

Change the mc to an experienced pickpocket. They pick up the young thief as an apprentice, coming into the market with the sole purpose of finding a new apprentice.

[@khatunamezvrishvili6211]

@@squarcircle2254 that's the joke. It doesn't make sense

[@muhammadsaduddin308]

Gintama in the nutshell...

[@mikitz]

One extremely common cliche in all literature: use of words to convey a message.

[@lilacdragon44]

Whoa. I think I’ve used that one before! How do I fix it? 😨😨😨

[@hirandompeopled4968]

Ugh I hate those. Like, every book has some and it’s so overused!

[@beansworth5694]

You might be surprised on how often this one gets subverted!

[@ayachi2414]

You forgot the love triangle.

[@HickoryDickory86]

Osama Ayachi Who, the main character, the antihero, and the plucky thief?! D:

[@dabomdiggitydemon2030]

Love triangles are the worst trope to ever exist

[@user-oj8uc6wb4w]

@@dabomdiggitydemon2030 /wooooosh

[@ThrottleKitty]

Oh god. Why did you have to tell me about TV Tropes......

[@Lugbzurg]

Looks like you've got some more reading to do!

[@magicalmelancholy970]

I already fell down the rabbit hole, welcome

[@Healermain15]

I have repeatedly fallen down the rabbit hole, climbed out, slipped at the doorstep, fallen down again, climbed out again only to eventually fail to resist it's mysterious allure and jump back in once more.

[@londonbrigid3617]

Throttle Kitty TV tropes has a trope for everything, even if it isn't a cliché. For example, they have 'Dark colors, dark character' for when only the villains have colors like black, and 'dark colors, good character' for when the heroes have dark colors too. It's completely contradictory, and they will never fail to find a trope in a story, so don't worry about whether or not your story has a lot of tropes from that website.

[@Trixareforkidsvegeta]

I've fallen in so much that now days i can actually resist it somewhat:).

[@warlordera5409]

Funnily enough, this isn't terrible writing advice.

[@the_katzy]

This so weird, with J.P. being relatively genuine and calm.

[@ivaldi13]

Did . . . Did someone say that your use of element-assigned characters is inspired by Avatar? Oh, geez . . . Look, I love Avatar: The Last Airbender as much as anyone, but please, no, the concept hasn't been original for thousands of years. It's an acceptable cliché. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. It's just that it's pretty silly to assume that an author decided to use it because of Avatar even if that assumption turns out to be true for some.

[@leeminchung9]

ivaldi13 Avatar has a cliche which is the chosen one cliche. However they actually mamaged to utilize the chosen one cliche in a good way. Instead of making the chosen one a super strong main character, Aang actually grows and develops as a character instead of the usual chosen ones who dont develop at all

[@ivaldi13]

Uh-huh. And?

[@leeminchung9]

Just pointing out how Avatar is well written

[@ivaldi13]

Okay, but I wasn't challenging Avatar's writing. I did say that its use of elemental chars is an "acceptable cliché," which is to say that I find it acceptable and not a mark against its predominantly stellar writing.

[@leeminchung9]

ivaldi13 that's why I said it's cliche done right. Despite using the chosen one cliche, they utilized it in a good way hence makes the story good

[@ag4162]

Forth option for the thief Cliché A kid bumps into the hero, the hero notice the bump and thinks he got robbed, punches the kid, and then realises he still got the money.

[@mauricioalonso2157]

5th option, the hero stabs the kid because he is a sadist.

[@londonbrigid3617]

Hyper Man Or the hero's companion knows about that cliché and stops the thief from taking it. It keeps it fresh, and teaches the hero a lesson about trust early on. Plus it highlights the street smarts of the companion character.

[@ag4162]

could be a nice thing to have in your story, but it loses the humor aspect

[@londonbrigid3617]

Hyper Man yea, but there are plenty more opportunities to be funny, especially considering how naïve the main character is to fall for the 'bump into someone and steal their money' trick.

[@thelazydeathgod]

Or maybe the hero recognizes the thief from somewhere else and lets himself get robbed so he can follow the thief and learn more about him. Or maybe the hero was a street rat as a kid and lets the thief get away with his coins because he knows how terrible it is to live like that, and he wants to be generous. Idk, the more you think about it the more options there are :P.

[@t850terminator]

What about the one where the thief bumps into the hero, and then the hero pickpockets the thief?

[@ctirons]

"Hero" in that case. XD

[@Thraim.]

Same Trope, alas -subverted- inverted.

[@saskuethedemon98]

Hero: How does it feel to have YOUR money stolen?! Thief: Golly gee mister I sure have seen the error of my ways could I join you and learn from you sir. I like the idea honestly I was just playing around potential dialogue.

[@HiddenDragon555]

What if they both steal each other's money? That could also establish an interesting character dynamic.

[@nidohime6233]

Maybe is a good way to show that the hero had a criminal past or is not that good as we thought.

[@itsaredvine]

Funny thing is: In my work, I've been using clichés in a twist manner. Nobody likes the Mary Sue. The chosen one rejects the prophecy and let's someone else fulfill it. And plucky teenagers with great potential but no experience fall flat on their face. Personally, I think clichés are good if you know how to work them.

[@OJorEm]

If nobody likes the Mary Sue, is she still a Mary Sue?

[@bipedleek241]

orange top ten questions science can’t solve

[@kamarulariffin3093]

Man I would love to read some of your work

[@Somespideronline]

Leon Trin I actually like this story

[@egrumblybus7792]

I kind of can’t help but imagine the concept of a character that’s treated by the others as a Mary Sue, but who is just using a magical ability to make people like them, and is actually quite manipulative and cruel Hold on that’s just Tomie from Tomie-

[@yuirick]

"Like how Avatar inspired the creation of four elements" I don't think Avatar was the first to do that. Hehe. :P

[@lifeontheledgerlines8394]

That was a joke

[@TheZeroNeonix]

Goku: "You're holding back your true power, aren't you?" Villain: "I don't know what you're talking about." Goku: "Heh. Come on, we've played around long enough. It's time to get serious." *Goku transforms into a Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Kaioken x10 Oozaru* *Villain runs away screaming*

[@crimsonnin2]

I just try not to bother worrying about clichés, it's more of a headache than its worth. I just tell the story I want to regardless of if it's been told before or not, it just has to make sense in the world I built. I think unoriginality doesn't come from clichés, a story that was good or bad will be that regardless of how many common tropes it uses. Unoriginality comes from people who can't be bothered to think of their own story. Clichés almost always work in their original context, but taking them out of that is what makes them nonsensical and therefore draws our attention to it.

[@Darek_B52]

I'm writing a story that is meant to take the piss out of tropes and great fantasy stories. I was thinking to call it "The Fellowship of the Spoofing"

[@Xjr555kid]

Darek Baird That might be a little on the nose

[@DrunkenCoward1]

Darek Baird *(Warning! Spoilers appear later in the comment, after the bold part later on!) Personally, I'm defensive when it comes to spoofs that are too on the nose. I don't know if you've read Abercrombie's First Law trilogy, but he does it really well in that one. To say what he does right without spoiling anything: He subverts fantasy clichees while still telling an original and interesting story. *HUGE SPOILER FOR THE ENTIRE TRILOGY AND THE ENDING AND CONCLUSION PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU'RE PLANNING TO READ THE BOOKS* ~He introduces a wisely wizard, who surrounds himself with apparently random misfits and goes on an epic journey to an old empire with them to find a magic MacGuffin.... that turns out to not be where he suspected it to be, rendering most of the journey useless and the party returning with seemingly nothing gained.~ ~Then it turns out that the wisely old wizard man is a maniac and the MacGuffin was a weapon of mass destruction hidden right under his nose and after using it he makes most of the characters he journeyed his unwilling subordinates and controls most of the political landscape.~

[@hi-i-am-atan]

+Darek Baird Some advice? That's a terrible title.

[@ReturnToSenderz]

crimsonnin2 I think it's good to be aware of the cliches but not be afraid of them--like you said, if it makes sense in the context of your story, a cliche can be fine. Just look at Star Wars: having a character who knows nothing about the Force get pulled into an unexpected intergalactic adventure while also discovering a strong affinity with the Force has become (an incredibly specific) cliche, but did I enjoy The Force Awakens even with that? You bet, because it makes sense in that universe, and the execution of the story was enjoyable enough to make me go along with it instead of rolling my eyes.

[@ancapftw9113]

I remember two times a writer used the percussive pickpocket in a cool way. 1) Legend of Korra when one ran into Mako, a former orphan. He just grabbed the kid's arm, grabbed his wallet back, and let the kid go. The other was a star wars book where someone tried it on a younger Han Solo, so he caught the kid, took the money back, then offered to pay him for info on where to sell drugs he'd stolen.

[@noahchmielewski1347]

And the second

[@fire-nrg7962]

Which book?

[@cbbblue8348]

Gintama:Where a poor child tried to rob the main character only to get an empty wallet, while main character is the one robbed the child. And then he goes into a spending spree and ascused the child for stealing his money,after that the child confessed why he stole money lol

[@6killersfear4]

@@fire-nrg7962 a bit late but I'd send you in direction of Ylesia trilogy

[@lilyphillips2867]

Everyone, please! If you value your life, don't go to TV Tropes! It's a trap! Also, your voice is incredibly soothing.

[@garyconstanza3120]

I'm curious, is there anything wrong withTVTropes? Seems like a harmless site to me.

[@lilyphillips2867]

Once you visit, it will draw you in and swallow you whole. Your friends and family will never see you again.... It's a great website, but I would advise you not to go there unless you've got plenty of time. It's so hard to put down.

[@mauricioalonso2157]

So true, you read a trope with 5 references to another tropes, and you want to know what they are and those 5 have 3-7 references more, and next thing you know you starved to death.

[@SilverHairedFreak25]

If you're an aspiring writer of any kind or just want to look up articles on your favorite pieces of media, beware. It's one thing to get curious and see a wikipedia-serious article on what kind of tropes construct what you watch, read, and play. However, TVtropes isn't wikipedia-serious. It's got quite the sense of humor to it, as well as just captivating writing and hilarious titles for various tropes. It's hard to just read one page per session.

[@jonmeaders8633]

Gary Tomás Constanza Martinez there are a few ways to survive a visit if you are brave or foolish enough to attempt going to tvtropes.com: 1) use a mobile device to explore the site. This will prevent ETS (excessive tabs syndrome) or at least delay ETS so as to allow a few page visits without going to every link. 2) Have faith in the Rules of the Internet. If it exists, it is on the internet hence you do not need to go looking in the examples for your favorite book, movie, or show. Just have faith it is there, not quite as passionate as you would have written it, and avoid both ETS and TRS (Tangential Reading Syndrome) 3) Set Limitations. Give yourself only 3 chuckles before you leave the site. The best protection against TRS and ETS is prevention. After 3 chuckles and/or "thats true" moments...move on if you value your life. Further, if you try to tell someone about tvtropes or begin thinking in a critical manner its time to take a break. I suggest a 3-6 month hiatus from the site in which time you will learn effects are permanent.

[@briarpelt2333]

This is very helpful writing advice, and delivered well. Let me just say that I really appreciate this channel: even in your sarcastic videos, you aren't angry, condemning, or generalizing. In a world where it's all too common to hear "all cliches are bad" or, especially, "all Chosen One characters are bad", I am so glad to find someone who understands and freely talks about the nuances of tropes, characters, and good vs. bad writing. The first video of yours I watched was the one about Chosen Ones, and I was prepared for a sarcastic rant basically condemning all Chosen One characters as Mary Sues... but I was very pleasantly surprised to see that you mentioned ways of making those characters deep, interesting, and a little unique. I am so happy to see this, and to find that other people are also watching and appreciating these videos. Keep up the good work!

[@dbsommers1]

i do use cliches, but every now and then I try spinning them. Example: The warrior said, "The Prophecy stated that on The 5th of Calida, at 10:45, our queen would be replaced by a girl from another dimension whose name would be Naru Kinasta and she would personally lead us to victory over the forces of darkness, despite her initial contentions she couldn't possible do it." Naru said, "Wait, your prophets were that specific?" "Indeed, they knew what they were doing. So we've already got your armor, weapons, and gathered intelligence on the enemy for you to look over for whatever attack you devise. Whatever you need, we'll get it. We have been preparing for this for a while since we knew it was coming."

[@neddles33]

Harry Potter has prophecy, a chosen one and a quest. It's all in the delivery.

[@W0lfMan26]

LazyNed I don't think Harry potter will be hailed as a great literary work in 100 years either though. Just because a work was popular in its time doesn't make it lasting.

[@tired4211]

W0lfMan26 I think so too.

[@blondbraid7986]

W0lfMan26 I do think that JK Rowling succeeded in pulling off the tropes, since Harry is a likable protagonist, but still has human flaws. Despite his flaws and making mistakes, he's also kind and well meaning, and despite being "the chosen one" he's pretty humble about it and willing to do a lot of sacrifices. Compare that to all the terrible "chosen ones" who spends the first act whining about nobody understanding how special they are, then whining about how difficult it is to be special and they just want to be normal, and then wins trough some random magic power and gets everything they wished for without ever needing to sacrifice or learn anything.

[@Nionivek]

I think what helped Harry Potter is how it pulled you into Harry's headspace. The whole "I am the chosen one" in Harry Potter kind of sucked.

[@marsbolcan9311]

When you realise there were really 2 Chosen Ones.

[@Vgamer311]

Cliches are not good Cliches are not bad either It's snowing on Mt. Fuji

[@AriEugene]

Vgamer311 that's one syllable too many, mate

[@YannYann12345]

Vgamer311 Cliches are not good Cliches are not bad too It's snowing on mt. Fuji

[@cheesebatto]

A Eugene it's a Game Grumps reference

[@Vgamer311]

It's definitely 5/7/Mt. Fuji not 5/6/Mt. Fuji

[@everestcanyon5647]

ふじ山。

[@wimpyapple8093]

Guys, I'm a bit worried... It's been a long time since he's mentioned a love triangle. What if love triangles fade into obscurity???

[@ariksanderstuckwisch1604]

IMPOSSIBLE!

[@Carewolf]

Inconceivable.

[@Kugglelovesanime9]

UNPRECEDENTED

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

That is not logically possible. It is beyond the human mind to even try to imagine such a scenario.

[@ironmilutin]

comment section will never let that happen

[@Swatman170]

What about having the child bump into the hero, then having someone else nick the coins, then the hero thinks that the child did it (due to being genre savvy). Having the true thief run into the child and hero later, being recognized by the child or hero. I think that could be an interesting setup for having both a good-guy and bad-guy street urchin all at once.

[@scottmantooth8785]

you've just described a running theme within the book and musical Oliver Twist

[@daniel06977]

Writing a story about carbon based lifeforms is such a cliche

[@Rainbowthewindsage]

Or ones that think and feel. So over used.

[@juicebox9465]

I'm so sick of humanoid characters in general. Ugh so unoriginal.

[@supermaximusfagetti9836]

Writing a story? That's cliché

[@DiminutiveJerry]

Silicon based lifeforms rise up

[@galahad6300]

@@DiminutiveJerry “No Kill I”

[@justvibin1447]

Dude. You're my favorite writing channel. Your normal videos are hilarious and offer wonderful advice beneath the sarcasm, and this video was just wonderful. It's so refreshing to hear someone who doesn't automatically translate cliches into "good" or "bad", but instead as opportunities to make your writing better. So glad I subscribed! Keep it up man!

[@thesuccessfulone]

I, too, rolled a 1 on my finances.

[@tristanseaver9054]

Thank you for the honest and insightful video.

[@woodenwind9456]

Hey would it be cool if someone helped me with my cliché “Trust no one” “ then how can I trust you!?”

[@JPDevenX20]

Blue moon Wolf I'm not an expert writer, but you could possibly utilise their actions in the stead of words. Say that Character A states to trust no one, and through their actions, it clan clearly be read, interactions with Character B could be pushing Character B out of harm's way, and Character B turns in a negative response. However, if you want dialogue, use it sparingly for example: "As we were travelling towards the place, a beautiful woman caught my eyes as she elegantly walks towards us, her eyes locks onto mine and sweetly smiles, with a gentle voice, she invites for a feast. My guide steps between us and glares at this kind lady. I grip their arm and they gave me a pointed look. I grip them tighter and glared at them. They briskly shrug off my grip and with a grunt, looks back at the woman, "Leave us be." The woman gave me a sorrowful look, pleading me to help her change this guide's mind, I turn to them and tried to urge them to reconsider; but I can't, they were set. Defeated, the woman left our presence, and heat rises to my cheeks, my hands into fists, but now is not the time. We have to go on. We proceeded to walk towards our goal; but all I could think of was how this guide turned away a feast offered by a kind, elegant and beautiful lady, I can't bear to be near such an aggressive person to a woman offering food. I'll learn the way to the place and I'll leave his sour self to their own." I've gotten lazy to write the rest, but later on, the character succeeds in ditching the guide and then the character gets attacked by the same woman and then subsequently saved by the guide, proving that the guide can be trusted and at the same time, showing that the guide was right to distrust everyone until proven trustworthy. This is just my way of solving this problem but there are other ways. Sorry for the long comment.

[@malks2500]

You could have the character A say trust no one and be genuine about it. It doesn't have to be a teaching moment, in can be a sad one that comes from experience. Character B can still look at them with the hope of trust but be surprised when Character A says not to trust them either. I always find it's best to make characters mean what they say, if they're lying don't make it too obvious. Think of the reasons behind their words and focus on those. Hopefully this helps!

[@typhoonzebra]

Another revision: Main hero just bought a very expensive and rather heavy item he plans to sell elsewhere for a good price. The poor kid bumps into him and on instinct the hero swivels and grabs the kids arm. In the kid's hand, he sees his coin pouch. The hero knows that since he had just made a pretty big purchase there wasn't much left and what he intends to sell would be worth far more than the coin pouch even if it were full. The hero lets go of the kid and lets him leave with the money. This shows the hero knows exactly what kind of place this is and is so familiar with it he acts on instinct and forgiving and generous enough to let the kid keep stolen goods. It could be spinned a different way, to emphasize the value of whatever the hero bought rather than generosity but still works either way.

[@justbny9278]

TyphoonZebra you could also have the hero give the valuable item as something that would benefit much more the thief than some coins, aware that as a hero he could make way more money than someone could steal at a place know to be full of criminals.

[@AnythingMachine]

If there's a Terry Pratchett quote involved then it must be good advice

[@MrTohawk]

He was the master of good clichés. RIP Sir Terry Pratchet

[@Darek_B52]

Hey man between you and trope talks from "Overly Sarcastic Productions" I think I've gotten more advice on how to write than my entire time in highschool and college combined. I just wanted to say thanks for making these great videos and I will always heed the lessons I learned from this channel and others. PS I'm writing a story that is meant to take the piss out of tropes and great fantasy stories. I was thinking to call it "The Fellowship of the Spoofing" or "Game of Tropes" or even "The Magical Taking of the Piss"

[@londonbrigid3617]

Darek Baird I like Game of Tropes the best.

[@ironmilutin]

I'm just imagining you getting a writing award and being asked how did you learn to write like that? you :"Terrible writing advice" reporter: "... okay? And who was your inspiration?" you :"Terrible writing advice" reporter: "... I'm not getting paid enough for this"

[@TheKersey475]

They should do a crossover!

[@aidenh.2782]

Ngl I enjoy this style of straightforward advice more than advice filtered through sarcasm and jokes

[@mackenziedrake]

I've been enjoying the bad writing advice immensely. I've seen myself a few times in a way that was painless, and I've had some good laughs recognizing others' painful writing. This video has also been fun and inspiring. I look forward to watching more honesty and terrible advice as you make them.

[@Egghead012]

Here's another thing to do with cliches: Metahumor, use satire to make fun of the cliche.

[@scottmantooth8785]

i do that one a lot... but even then you have to be careful not go too far down that tangent as reading it can become tedious or wearisome

[@FailoReachForge]

Cliché =/= Negative. It literally just means that it's been done quite a lot before and has an element of predictability about it. You can make the cliché so engaging that it doesn't matter that it's predictable, or you can add a twist that either changes/subverts the ending for a surprise. It could be a minor part of your story so that it's not elemental to the enjoyment of the book. Or you could essentially construct the narrative and character themes purely around to deconstruct the cliché itself. Simply put, there's nothing wrong with a cliché as long as your aware of it and it serves a good narrative purpose and isn't just a short cut for a lack of ideas surrounding the plot point or character.

[@Underworlder5]

reminds me of the trope concerning "showy invincible hero". basically, the question is not if the hero wins, but how

[@PaleGhost69]

Dude, have you seen Star Trek: Discovery yet? I think the writers watch your videos and take them seriously. Ha, just realized this is the serious video. I had forgotten this was coming. Everyone tweet it at them!

[@redviper324]

PaleGhost69 Is it better than the bs movies?

[@paulwillox8778]

If you're referring to the kelvin timeline movies I would personally say that Star Trek: Discovery is, at least, worse than Star Trek 2009 and Star Trek Beyond and is vying with Into darkness as being the worst of all new Trek. That being said I actually quite enjoyed the most recent film Star Trek Beyond (and this is coming from a life long star trek fan, I've seen every series). Star Trek: Discovery is unfortunately in my opinion, a hot mess, with technology and alien redesigns that are ugly, over-designed and cluttered, a cast of unlikable characters lead by one of the most emotionally unstable, irresponsible and incompetent lead characters I've ever seen, a script that constantly tells us, through dialogue that she is "the finest starfleet officer I've ever worked with" (while we're never shown why! seriously the writers seem to have no understanding of show don't tell), and a story that succeeds at being both contrived and at times nonsensical.

[@redviper324]

Paul Willox Lol, I think I'll watch the first eps just to tell everyone how it sucks then :( Yes I know I'm pathetic

[@CommandLineVulpine]

The first two episodes are awful. EPisode 3 it does get better (not great, but at least acceptable) to be honest I'd suggest skipping the first two even.

[@paulwillox8778]

Lance Elliott Agreed the 3rd episode is something of a step up, although I still find all the characters unlikable, but it is very early in the series so I will give it a bit more of a chance. My two biggest problems so far with the show are 1) the main character for reasons I listed above and 2) the redesign of the Klingons (their ships are now ugly and also lack personality, but what really bugged me was the new facial prosthetic). Some people seem to think that the only reason Star Trek kept most of it's alien designs simple was just down to it being cheap and easy, but that was only part of it. The designs were also kept simple because it's easier to empathise with characters that are more human in appearance but also rather more importantly to make it easier for the actors to display all nuances of emotion without being overly hampered by prosthetics. STD, however went so overboard with their prosthetics (which to me look like melted rubber) that, not only are they seemingly unable to express any emotion (other than emotional constipation!), but given the actors had to speak in Klingon, they end up all sounding like they're chewing on marshmallows! Not the best first impression of what is looking to be one of the shows primary antagonists.

[@manegirl93416]

In case anyone is curious about how I'm doing the "thief bumping into hero" thing- The thief has actually been staking out this area and waiting for someone potentially wealthy looking yet weak looking enough to come along. Since it's by the local Adventurer's Guild, he knows that he's gotta be careful else he'll be squished like a bug. He skips over my character Marcus for this exact reason (granted, Marcus is a nice guy, but Gale doesn't know that yet), and goes for Rico instead. That's a mistake, because while Rico is scrawnier than Marcus, he's no less observant, and Gale is an AWFUL pickpocket, so Rico can tell right away that he's a thief. Rico quickly grabs Gale by the wrist, hard, and with a snarl in his voice, "Come with me!" And Gale can't get away as Rico drags him along... past the guardhouse and jail, to which his fear turns to confusion as they're now going down to the river and by the waterfall, and after knocking on a rock which opens, Rico forcefully picks Gale up and throws him into the room. "Get in there, whelp! They'll teach you how to do it right." And slams the door shut. Gale looks around, and realizes that he's in the city's local Thieves Guild, making him sigh in disappointment, as he's not fond of them from a moral perspective. Nevertheless, Rico calms down (he'd been having a really rough week and a thief picking his pocket didn't help) and takes him under his wing, as he's a fellow thief as well.

[@hakuyowane4505]

"Don't Panic" Was that a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference or am I just a massive nerd

[@hannibustoogfyrre6074]

Ivypool of ThunderClan Both.

[@zeronova1484]

Ivypool of ThunderClan, I think most people subscribed to this channel are massive nerds.

[@GUV85]

42

[@scottmantooth8785]

no, it was definitely intentional and in all probability you were already a massive nerd before you ever watched the video as are most (if not all) of the the other subscribers to this channel

[@heretic_engineer391]

No you mong it's a Dad's Army reference!

[@Godzilla-mq5zv]

You can't not have a single cliche in your work.It's just impossible.If you living right now has thought of something,chances someone in the loooooooong history of humanity has already turned that idea into a work of entertainment. However,you can be either cliche in a good way or a bad way.That's just my opinion though.

[@shmoopy3507]

"You can not not." 10/10

[@fulanodetal3614]

Godzilla 123 A cliché is NOT an idea that someone thought up before you. A cliché is specifically an *overused* idea, phrase, etc. There really aren't that many cliches when compared to all scenarios possible to be thought up or have been thought up before. They're just incredibly useful in terms of sharing information, so they tend to get used more often than more unfamiliar, "new" ideas. Everything may have already been discovered in terms of scenario, but that doesn't mean all scenarios are cliches. It just means you aren't OG. Fair enough, in my opinion.

[@Godzilla-mq5zv]

Shmoopy Thank you,thank you,I farted that onto the screen myself.

[@Godzilla-mq5zv]

Enid Redden K

[@DrewLSsix]

Godzilla 123. That's not the definition of a cliche.

[@galloe8933]

Keep the stolen undies part, call a guard over to explain the whole stolen undies situation, make the guard curious at to why the thief would steal such a thing, make the undies a golden thong and BAM! Unexpected love triangle.

[@rigistroni]

I genuinely think this is one of the best videos on KZbin. It's so insightful Every writer should see this

[@lightsideofsin8969]

Now I want a book that's stuffed to busting with cliches and tropes. I want the most Mary Sue of protagonists to be the chosen one to defeat the big evil thing and have the cheesiest love-dodecahedron ever 😂

[@ryeonspeed]

Then read My Immortal

[@spiceyblueroyalhoney1225]

@@ryeonspeed what's that?

[@ryeonspeed]

@@spiceyblueroyalhoney1225 cringe personified as a story

[@lifeontheledgerlines8394]

@@ryeonspeed This reply made my day omg

[@tompatterson1548]

@@spiceyblueroyalhoney1225 the secret of the philosopher’s stone

[@mezz09smezzanine]

This has actually REALLY helped me. I have been internally battling over removing an entire plotline from my story because of a cliche at the core of it, but perhaps in exploring the cliche I can put it to good use

[@firstprimehunter]

This sort of thing happened in kill la kill. Ryuko bumps into a thief and when the kid check what he stole he finds she replaced the money with a lemon.

[@CoffeeSnep]

twinfyre I can't watch kill la kill for the simple reason that their is an autistic girl at my school who watches it constantly and rubs it in everyone's face. She screams. A lot. If I tried to watch it, that's all I would think about.

[@charleslathrop9743]

I will constantly obsess over every piece of advice and correction I receive from writers I perceive to be more experienced or skilled than myself. That way I can better make my work fit my unique vision... wait.

[@agiar2000]

I wrote a story that played on the "Chekov's Gun" convention. Briefly, "Chekov's Gun" says that, if a gun is shown in the first act, it must be fired by the third. The idea of setting up an important artifact or device, establishing its existence even without establishing its ultimate importance or role, and eventually using it to resolve something in the story. I created a villain and set up an artifact that, without being overly explicit about it, could be surmised to serve as the villain's ultimate weakness. Nearing the climactic confrontation toward the end of the story, the main protagonist, too, figures out that that artifact could be used against the villain. However, the attempt to use the artifact ultimately fails, and the main protagonist is actually killed off! However, the _main_ protagonist was not the _only_ protagonist. Though he was the main focus at the beginning, as the story progressed, deeper character flaws were revealed, and another supporting character introduced fairly early on became more and more developed. This supporting character was the one who stepped in at the end to save the day with help from what the original protagonist had done previously, despite being too late to actually save that original protagonist. I like taking tropes and then tweaking them somewhat.

[@kamilee4123]

That actually sounds like a really cool story my dude.

[@agiar2000]

+Kami Lee Thanks! :)

[@TheFranchiseCA]

I don't know how good the rest of the story is, but your outline shows the potential strength of using tropes well. Especially if the audience relates to, admires, or otherwise feels strongly about the deuteragonist.

[@trunkulent]

Matthew Swenson Hey! Don't make comments just to self-aggrandize that you know the word "deuteragonist"! (Is joke)

[@clowntown5426]

I'd really love to see more of these "Honest Thoughts" videos from you, man. as hilarious are the sarcastic tone of TWA vids can be, I appreciate this type of more crash course writing tool deconstruction that goes more in depth of their respective natures and how to implement them to the fullest in different ways. Also your regular tone voice is so soothing and endearing to hear.

[@ocelatingocelots]

Going through today and re-listening to your Terrible Writing Advice as I paint rooms in my house I knew they'd make me smile and reinforce ideas I'd watched before. I had forgotten about this video and, while I don't have the particular fear of my tropes, I cannot express my appreciation of the tone shift and honest conversation. Thanks JP

[@Pfhorrest]

I wonder how unusual I am as a reader/viewer. As long as I can remember I've pretty much always been able to see the pieces that a story of built out of and almost always see where it's going to end (some times to the point of being bothered when it ends in a way I judge to be worse writing than the ending that was obviously available to them). But this has never diminished my appreciation of storytelling. I can see the ending coming, but I don't feel "spoiled". Actually I don't generally mind spoilers at all. To me it's kind of like going on a rollercoaster I've been on before: the dramatic drops and twists are still exciting even though I know they're coming, and I judge the quality of the work on how it composes those drops and twists and such together into a bigger more cohesive picture. I almost feel like if a story only seems high quality because you personally haven't seen one like it before, then it's not really of lasting quality. Great works can remain great works even long after all of their innovations have become commonplace.

[@owos100]

Pfhorrest Well said, I agree. :) And because I can't resist: *cough* Lord of the Rings *cough*

[@DjapeKostic]

You aren't unusual at all.

[@Oceaniz]

There is a place for people like you. /r/iamverysmart

[@shinwook5145]

I like what is done (the story, themes treated, parts with the focus, etc), and HOW is done. Reading a good story after spoilers is like watching a MacGregor's fight, you know it's going to end with a fade into a straigh left counter, but how will he set it up? Any story can be interesting, depending onhow you do it. Maybe you focus on the development of character's psique, or how different social problems are view from the different perspectives of different characters... is not just what but how : )

[@lanceknightmare]

Pfhorrest The first part of what you said. Just means you are actively instead of passively thinking about the story. It shows an interest in writing.

[@666melodeath666]

This reminds me of a scene of Gintama where the kid thief bumps into the hero but the hero is broke has barely anything in his wallet and when the kid checks for his own wallet he realizes the hero took it from him making the encounter hilarious. The hero here also used to be a street rat knew exactly what the kid was doing and actually gets the kid thief to start working and change his life not to mention the kid thiefs goals become the driving force to the story arc.

[@danagray9709]

This is great! It'd be great if you do more like this. I love your normal content, but this is extremely helpful!

[@sebbychou]

Keeping separate honest talk and sarcastic mirroring is a pretty good idea. This way you dilute neither and the viewer's expectations are set accordingly from the get go. The kind of advice offered here is pretty solid; it's the kind of thing veterans tells to newcomers during personal conversation or in forums/social media but never often enough as a public statement like this. Excellent work!

[@hockeycrafter6086]

I absolutely LOVE this tone of video and would love to see this as it’s own series

[@dr1742]

Thank you for this episode. I see that you didn't get much "useful" returns, but this was some pretty good writing advice. And from a real writer.