The New Armor Changes To Tank Are Bigger Than You Think In Overwatch 2

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[@FlatsTwo]

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZpWx7n0Zr7ga67A8BX14mBlSybYl8h3Cw4ObUzGqrkA/edit?usp=sharing Here's the spreadsheet if any of ya'll are interested in exploring for yourselves all credits to Cactuspuppy

[@smellssmell2488]

Nothing against Cactuspuppy, or your decoding, these numbers don't seem right to me. Maybe they are, but I REALLY hope they aren't... Maybe the Workshop is bugging for random characters. It almost looks to me like some people are just negating the armor after the changes that were made. I really wouldn't know, but I have heard workshop can be really buggy...

[@TrulySomeone]

⁠@@smellssmell2488 The new armor is overall a lot worse, but is now better against low-damage-pellets (Tracer Pistols, Ramattra Void Accelerator, LW Thorn Volley, etc.) The only abilities that negate the armor change are beams, of which there’s very few so idk what you really mean.

[@thedofflin]

Look at all the sources of damage which deal up to 42% extra body shot damage! Especially DoTs. Only a few sources of damage deal less headshot damage, mainly tanks like DVa, Doomfist, Mauga, Roadhog, Wrecking Ball. Nearly all other sources deal the same headshot damage. I really think they should've just nerfed Reaper and Bastion and called it a day.

[@SaMi3Nyayer]

shouldnt they have done this the otherway nerfing burst dmg in some way and allowing multi pellets to pass through since bastion reaper etc. were desgined to be tank killers and the big issue is just the amount of burst dmg we been getting from other sources as well

[@MS-DOSH]

I'm fucking terrified about Winston. No longer hard countered by Reaper/Bastion and Torb, tankier by default, and his gun ignores armor. Winston might be super busted.

[@klaytonshell5654]

Finally Winston gets to have fun I'm tired of the entire team counter swapping against me Try playing Winton into Hoad rog Bastion Reaper Ana Brig Winton deserves this and you know it

[@Ayusshhh27]

You should be terrified of monke

[@thedude0000]

welcome to overwatch....they'll over power tanks to point you can't kill them.

[@thebabycow]

Also he doesn't headshot anyway, so less headshot damage on the enemy tank doesn't matter

[@klaytonshell5654]

@@thedude0000 get with the times old man

[@AetherMoose]

Kinda big brain for them to balance out the 25% crit damage by reverting the armour. I’ve seen some say they shouldnt punish skill with the 25% crit reduction, but tanks are inherently easier to headshot anyway, so it makes sense they should get less reward.

[@alphaluc1008]

also its not punishing skill, like ur still headshoting, its still more damage than a body shot. It was never a good argument to begin with

[@haku4841]

It’s like everyone gets a 1.5 headshot multiplier I feel like it should probably be 20% as characters like illari when they headshot now do like only 8 more dmg now 😜 which is crazy id recommend anyone that plays illari after these changes go live, just go for body shots Or they should nerf her bodyshot to 70 and give her 1.75/2x headshot multiplier If it’s too strong I’d nerf her projectile size very slightly as it’s 1.3 metres rn which is pretty forgiving tbh if it were 1.1

[@Natsu7900]

“Punishing skill” by doing less damage to arguably the biggest sized characters in the game is stupid. Ain’t no skill in shooting at a brick wall but 2 specific bricks in the wall.

[@ChrisCarlos64]

You still are rewarded, even more now, for headshotting the opponent. Nothing changes here, but players who lay body shots will definitely feel it. The difference isn't whether you headshot or not, it's about the consistent damage in the end and the ability to finish off.

[@jacklesser6902]

@@alphaluc1008I disagree. It is punishing skill, not saying it is good for the game or not. But saying you do 25% damage than you should for a headshot means someone who headshots 100% of the time vs a noob who only hits body shots. The good player hitting headshots isn’t being rewarded as they should

[@CactusPuppy]

I did not think this was going to become a video. If anyone has suggestions or questions for the armor change, ask below and I’ll try to address it!

[@ExTeeBee]

Is there somewhere we can ger a link to this doc?

[@CactusPuppy]

@@ExTeeBee I'd love to share a link if I can, but I'm pretty sure that KZbin's (lovely) automated moderation would bop me for posting a link. I'll try and see if I can get Flats to post a pinned comment with the spreadsheet link!

[@vihtas]

​@@CactusPuppyhey are these coming changes, or were they implemented last patch?

[@bsgsmusic3451]

Isn't the armor rule applied last, after any damage modifiers? So wouldn't that mean Tracer's headshot damage would be 4.5 instead of 5.25? Since 12 * 0.75 = 9 for the tank's headshot passive, and then a further 50% for armor, resulting in 4.5, rather than 12 - 5 = 7, then * 0.75 = 5.25?

[@drill_3001]

Could you split the new armor column into two for the headshot ones? One with “new armor,” one with “new armor plus tank passive”?

[@xveluna7681]

This spreadsheet is not an amazing representation of what the armor changes will do. What matters more is how dmg and healing combine against a tank in armor. It becomes literally an arms race over who can keep the higher HPS or DPS into a tank to remove the armor. Healing heals armor without any mitigation. It means healing armor is more valuable than healing white hp. Dva has 375 armor. A reaper doing only bodyshots into Dva does ~151 DPS into armor today. With Mercy healing only doing 44hps after the dps passive, Reaper can chunk through say Dva armor AND mercy healing in ~3.5sec. WIth the armor revert, he'll be doing 108 DPS. Which with 44hps from Mercy means it'll take Reaper ~5.8 sec to burn through Armor and Mercy healing. That takes 67% longer to remove Dva from armor. This is a bit of an extreme case as its not factoring in headshots into Dva, double heal pocket, and the time to reload. However, it does show many tanks having 50% dmg reduction will make many of them feel like an Orisa in fortify when under the effects of healing.

[@sr_aron]

But that’s only for pellet hero’s, burst hero’s like Mcree, widow and soj do more damage now

[@joereed8872]

​@sr_aron yes and no. For the most part, headshots deal equivalent damage to current patch. The difference is that the damage reduction will apply to white health too. So to get the full Damage reduction on old armor you needed an equivalent amount of armor health. So heroes with less than 100 armor are taking less damage from sojourn and widow while heroes with 200+ armor are taking similar damage. For bodyshots/things that can't crit, it is a full damage increase. But dieing to body shots is really difficult on tank right now and is why metal rank tanks can feel unkillable. Tldr: they flattened the tdk between bodyshots and headshots to eliminate the extremes.

[@Akuseru94]

Good honestly, if a D.Va is being pocketed, there's very obviously a better target nearby.

[@DxXNA]

Yeah it's a poorly built spreadsheet. I was going to make my own until I saw this guy was making it, but he's been incredibly slow and showing it in weird context. So kind of wish I did make it... just was expecting him to make it faster then this. DVA - 350HP, 375 ARMOR ORISA - 275 HP, 350 ARMOR REIN - 400 HP, 300 ARMOR WINSTON - 375 HP, 250 ARMOR MAUGA - 525 HP, 200 ARMOR BALL - 600 HP, 150 ARMOR RAM - 425 HP, 100 ARMOR HOG - 800 HP SIGMA - 625 HP ZARYA - 550 HP DOOM - 525HP JQ - 525 HP So DVA, Orisa, Rein, Winston will be less effective against hero's like Hanzo, Cassidy, Torb Primary, Mei Icicle, Pharah Rocket, etc.. who might chunk their hp, but stronger vs any shotgun hero's like JQ, Hog, Reaper and low damage hero's like Sojurn, Reaper, Tracer, Sombra, DVA, Mauga etc.. HOG, Sigma, Zarya, Doom, JQ will not be effected at all by these changes, but will benefit from the 25% headshot situation. Overall these changes feel fairly well balanced more then I had expected. My only situation I think might be a bit busted is Cassidy's Fan Hammer into Tanks like Winston, Rein, Orisa will likely be very strong or even Mauga. Torb is just as effective, but... a lot harder to do the same. Also Soldier who is typically also a "Tank Shooter" will see a slightly buff to initial armor, not by much but instead of 30% reduction to damage it's like 27% reduction. Headshot would be 24.75 damage instead of former 25.2 so a slight nerf to headshot damage but a slight buff to body damage. Also Torb does have "some" armor so he will be a bit stronger vs dive hero's like Sombra/Tracer for instance or even reaper a little. Which torb was already good for all of these hero's to begin with. Mixed with JQ/Ball nerfs I still feel Dive will be strongly meta w/ JQ+Torb/Cassidy likely being popular choices and more then like Hanzo/Echo will make some headway of the buffs are good.

[@bambampewpew32]

"It means healing armor is more valuable than healing white hp." It's always been like that though lol, not a problem imo

[@marz7102]

I love how half of these comments are bashing Flat’s comprehension, and the others are bashing the changes itself

[@rudycruz1461]

Cry more

[@d-uz9vr]

@@rudycruz1461 haha how old are you ? not past the age of 14 huh

[@ryanager8029]

It also needs to be noted that the Armor change only applies while the target has Armor health. The headshot passive is gonna be the entire healthpool, so a hero like Queen is just flat buffed, while Orisa is more of a mixed bag, and all tanks are stronger when they run out of Armor.

[@daunzy4740]

*Cries as Doomfist*

[@ryanager8029]

@@daunzy4740 ?? Doomfist is getting a flat buff my being tankier against headshots, and a small nerf in the damage his left click does against Armor. (Aka brig Bastion tanks and Torb). His cd damage should go up against Armor. Doom benefits from this.

[@daunzy4740]

@ryanager8029 It's a net nerf to him because the hand cannon shots you mentioned and the 25% damage reduction against headshots make it to where it takes longer to empower his punch during block if he gets headshotted

[@sino_diogenes]

@@daunzy4740 taking less damage overall helps that. He's nerfed when shooting other tanks, but as Doom you don't want to do that anyway. In scenarios where he is attacking squishies, the armor changes shouldn't effect him and the headshot passive will increase his survivability.

[@lukasg4807]

​@sino_diogenes well it's impossible to punch a tank off a cliff now, and overall he gained the least in tankiness out of any of the tanks.

[@RLplusabunchofdumbnumbers]

I love how Cactus Puppy gave every streamer 20 minutes of "Wait, so...Okay, that means...no - wait...Okay, got it, so this is the breakpoint...I think" content.

[@dirusj4006]

It was mentioned by Aaron that most tanks have ways of dealing with those big chunks of damage. Its easy to flash a shield/bubble/Matrix at a rocket or try and mind game catch a railgun shot. You can't do that vs Tracer or Bastion because its just a constant stream of damage.

[@sakitoshi]

against bastion i go dva and pray my team takes him down before matrix runs out.

[@lucasrodney7886]

Yeah I think that’s the big thing people aren’t considering as much. Tanks can usually counterplay a big damage ability or shot but what’s the counterplay against bastion turret, like you literally just hide in a corner for 8 seconds and prey he doesn’t find you. There isn’t really a way to block his damage in the same way as a rail or arrow.

[@thomas4489]

That reduction change column is kinda misleading. It compares the absolute percentage points in reduction. For example for Tracer the original reduction for bodyshots on armor was 30%, now its 50%. To deal 420 damage on armor the Tracer only had to hit 100 bullets, on the new patch she has to shoot 140 bullets. Which implies an increase of damage reduction of 40% unlike the 20% shown in the table which only shows the absolute difference in Percentage points between both reduction rates (50%-30% = 20%)

[@Caiofoca]

Yup, the actual important value would be the percentage increase/decrease of what damage does at the moment to what it will do after the change, comparing it to the value pre-armor is just useless data.

[@thomas4489]

Just finished the video, so the same goes for the graph. I personally see no point in comparing the absolute reduction change percentage points because it doesnt paint a clear picture on what that would translate to in a real match. A 20% reduction increase makes it sound like you have to do 20% more damage compared to prepatch which is wrong.

[@CactusPuppy]

@@thomas4489 Thanks for the feedback! The intention was to paint a picture of how armor is changing relative to normal health, since I assumed everyone was familiar with the idea that armor decreases incoming damage by 30% flat no matter the damage instance, so the delta change in the rightmost column was moreso just to show how attacks were changing relative to each other. However, that being said, your reasoning about being more concerned about how much more or less damage is being done against armor pre- and post-patch makes a ton of sense, so I'll be editing the spreadsheet to look at those statistics first and foremost. Let me know if you think there's anything else that I should change!

[@thomas4489]

⁠@@CactusPuppyOh no problem, i should thank you for taking out the time of your day to even make such an elaborate spreadsheet. Im glad you didnt take my constructive critisism personally. Changing that particular column to relative percentual change to prepatch damage is probably the only thing id change. And maybe move the B column next to the F column and C,D,E each one to the left so all damages are next to eachother. So thanks again for doing that work for the community. I hope you have a wonderful day/evening.

[@CactusPuppy]

@@thomas4489 Great suggestions! I've implemented them in the spreadsheet. Have a lovely aftermornin'noondaynight yourself o7

[@johnnyhitman8532]

Overall I think with this we are looking at TWO forms of burst damage and the devs are answering, at least in my opinion, the better of the two. We have - High Single Instance Burst (Widow, Ash, Pharah, etc) - Burst of Small Damage in rapid succession (Tacer, Bastion, Mauga, etc) I think overall the latter is the bigger problem, A healer can take a moment to save you after getting domed by a widow once, your abilities can help stave it as well as your awareness/positioning and that is the former. If a Tacer is laying into you then your answers are hide or the Healer has to put almost everything into keeping you alive. On paper I feel like OW2 armor is better yes, but in practice I feel OW1 armor will be better for tanking.

[@haku4841]

I feel like widow and sojourn need nerfs anyway

[@tesla6938]

@@haku4841this is actually a buff for them

[@dylancrosby2451]

​@@tesla6938my brain isn't working yet, I just woke up. Can you explain how this is a buff for them? I'm still wrapping my head around the changes.

[@tesla6938]

@@dylancrosby2451 old armor was a flat 30% reduction now it’s minus 5 dmg per projectile up to fifty percent reduction, so high damage single projectiles will do quite a bit more damage while spread/ low dmg multi projectile attacks will be the same or less

[@dylancrosby2451]

@@tesla6938 ohhhh why is this now just finally clicking in my brain. Idk if it's the way you worded it but it finally makes sense 😂 thanks gotcha. I'll have to test it out because it seems like its both a nerf and a buff to ball (who i play), so it might change my positioning and target priority.

[@PlatonicDIVA]

That overwatch-ology is coming in handy

[@AdhvaithSane]

Pfft. Good one.

[@BenHC]

Interesting interaction occurs for characters like Bap whose close range damage is above the threshold such that it will now do more with the new armor, but his long range damage is below the threshold such that it will now do less... Or phrases more broadly, because armor does a flat damage reduction to a 50% cap, it has more relative effectiveness at range against all characters with damage drop off. Whether or not it crosses over though deoends on the close damage being over 17 and the far damage being under 17.

[@lesliejacoby9137]

My only concern is for soujourn railgun going to be hurting more but I guess the headshot reduction will compensate for tanks (at least I hope).

[@AVPancientPredator]

I wonder if this just swaps the tank-buster role from Reaper, Mei and Bastion, the characters that are up close and kind of in reach for most tanks, to Pharah & Junkrat, who are usually not in range for most tanks.

[@drafezard7315]

Add Venture as well and this is what I'm thinking too. Basically season 10 mid patch is the rise of the explosive hero's for countering armored tanks. Against non armored tanks the other will still be your best options. Also metal ranked snipers getting body shots will be potentially huge...

[@Whodadman]

Counter argument: You can actually play cover against Junk and Pharah. Reaper and Mei will just walk into you, and Bastion just destroys your shield and laughs. Regardless, it shakes up the meta, so I’m willing to try it.

[@haku4841]

Mei will be better against tanks with these changes

[@oneofthekindscarf8612]

​@@haku4841 Mei does less damage though, with left click at least

[@bigfudge2031]

Pharah was already a menace for most tanks anyway because most of them can't touch her.

[@Hous3ofpros]

the thing is, it’s just a net buff for snipers, because they are just going to be dealing more damage into the massive heads of tanks… which is the problem they were trying (?) to solve in the first place. we needed to either at least match the 30% DR we were losing from the normal armor and just have the headshot DR be 30% while then adding the ‘old’ armor for pellets, or make the headshot DR be 20% and then make armor give an additional 10% flat DR plus the ‘old’ armor DR that favors pellets, giving tanks w armor a more all-rounded defenses, while still giving all tanks a better shot than they had before against headshots regardless of whether they had armor or not.

[@sp_ce.]

Ramattra is cooked. His punches were already quite weak in comparison to melting most tanks with his staff and now his staff will deal only 50% damage against armor instead of 75%, and its headshots being even worse. As a Ram main I’m enjoying the game while it lasts, as he’s quite good now. And his most frustrating counter Mauga will deal even more damage to him.

[@hypadao235]

ram have armor too, and his punch will do more damage on armor than before, it is just his primary weapon that will be nerf against armor (and tank HS) but you can just target someone else (that you should alerady do since hitting the tank give less ult charge), target squishies for % punch the tank for the pressure and it is Win/Win

[@sp_ce.]

@@hypadao235 You're probably right, just have to adjust my playstyle. Typically what I do in this season is chip tanks resources with staff and then engage other enemies with nemesis form, because they can be more easily punished with it when they are out of position.

[@LFanimes333]

His punches got much better against armour wtf

[@Raiko01]

I think this is a fun way to change up the meta and fix some issues without directly affecting character's kits

[@johnrobertson1]

It feels like they’re trying a new method of separating the balance at high levels vs low ELO. I don’t know if it will work, but it’s a creative approach.

[@ATinyWaffle]

The two spreadsheet columns are not a good 1-1 representation of the armor changes for each character's damage. You need to directly compare old armor to new armor without including the tank headshot reduction. Then make two other columns that are old tank headshots with armor to new tank headshots with armor. It isn't comparing apples to apples.

[@Flarios55]

I always remembered Hog not having armor because a long time ago I tested the damage reduction and while Hog had a lot more base health, armor made Reinhardt take the same amount of shots to elim for some characters. This was back in OW1 that I tried I never checked in OW2.

[@gargano9104]

Btw the spreadsheet is wrong about a couple things. For example Roadhog’s headshot multiplier is 1.5x but the spreadsheet has it to be 2x.

[@frostou6653]

i think armor tanks will feel about the same, a slight nerf but more consistent against headshots since armor reduction would depend on how much armor you had left, but "new passive" is always active vs headshots, as for tanking bodyshots it will depend on matchup. Overall i think the biggest winners defensively speaking are non armor tanks who never had the extra reduction of armor and now suddenly will resist high damage headshots almost as well as tanks with armor thus increasing their survival.

[@jvidez]

These armor changes seem like a nightmare to balance. I always thought the initial changes to armor in Overwatch 2 was to make balancing easier because you would just change the percentage of a hero’s hp to armor if you wanted faster healing per second to balance out the damage per second received.

[@jerod256]

If I had to choose between small bits of chip damage flying in on a million projectiles and one big burst of damage, I'll choose the big burst of damage. You can identify where the big burst of damage is coming from, predict it, react to it, and it doesn't come in as often. I haven't played with the new armor change (going back to OW1 armor) but I suspect it will be better. Plus, as a Winston main, I'll have a better buffer of time vs Bastion. Maybe even be able to make a play out in the open while he's in turret form. Will this fix tank? I don't know, but I'm anxious to give it a try.

[@dirusj4006]

A lot of the heros that are gaining damage are also heros that have been having a hard time. Also Balls biggest issue when it comes to damage taken tends to be Tracer and Sombra. So big buff vs those two. Winston v DVa matchup is really changing with this change.

[@theprometheu5]

So the new tamkbusters are Junkrat and Hanzo instead of Reaper and Bastion? It sounds like an other version of hell 😂

[@mitchellmccroskey4568]

Higher skill heroes to hit shots with in my opinion. I know, I know, everyone THINKS Junkrat is a zero skill hero. However we are talking about purposely hitting shots here. That makes Junkrat a higher skill hero than reaper and bastion combined. Leading shots and judging the distance because of arc and time to get to target. This is a buff to tank basically because it’s much harder to play Hanzo and Junkrat reliably than it is to play reaper and bastion.

[@Shadowstar2001]

I have a big question. If I remember correctly some of Vantage damage is DOT does that mean that nerf isn't actually a nerf but an adjustment?

[@ImEcchi]

I just noticed the dude is updating as you read them. Wrecking Ball wasn’t there until like you read Bastion I think😂

[@eagleangel5568]

This is gonna be interesting if this is what it's gonna be there's actually gonna be different type of comps like the anti armor comp or the no armor comp or the mixed armor with anti armor support etc also how does life weaver and bap work as well and zen how does zen with dis work as well?

[@bigfudge2031]

won't really be a comp, more likely just couterswapping

[@bsgsmusic3451]

I'm not sure if this graph is correct. I thought the armor rule is always applied last, after any damage modifiers, including headshots. This would mean that the rule would be applied to the reduced headshot damage instead of the original damage. For example, Tracer's damage would be 4.5 instead of 5.25.

[@Goofygoober46]

Always a good day when flats uploads.

[@LFanimes333]

Ball basically got much better against DPS and Support but got turned into the single worst Tank brawler. I’m frankly kinda fine with it.

[@Thudd224]

This is gonna make the meta teir list interesting for sure

[@Legendalvin]

Zen will delete tanks in no time, 30% buff vs armor

[@swifttitan8126]

i just thought about it the tank boop change may buff venture because they'd get better burst combo potential

[@raedev]

What im worried about with this change is that it actively makes it much harder for characters who are designed around tank busting (such as bastion) to tank-bust, while making characters who are often not even close to that design (such as sojourn) WAY better at the job. We're in for a rough meta if these armor changes get in without any other stuff to balance things out. I really really do not like this change, even outside of the fact that I like to play bastion this feels like a very questionable change. Heres hoping they do other stuff too or we somehow completely misunderstood what this new armor is going to do. EDIT: it feels like theyre trying to balance the problem of heroes exploding but backwards. That kind of thing doesnt happen because of smooth non-burst damage: it happens because burst heals are chunky and smooth heals are not. So if you want big heals, you have to do so in instant chunks. As such smooth damage has an advantage. That imbalance right there is an issue. There is exactly one support hero that breaks this trend, and coincidentally that support hero is one of the most picked this season both because of poke damage with essentially free heals, and that kind of "big heals but smooth" that counters tank explosions fairly well already. And that's Illari. EDIT2: I feel like this change is also extremely bad for certain dps's that have to rely on armor for better survivability, such as once again bastion and torb. Feels like a change brought in by trying to balance tank, but that is also going to wreak pure havoc on the dps role in terms of both the different types of heroes as well as the playability of some of them.

[@theslenderfox]

This might be one of the rare fun patches

[@nite5432]

Link to spreadsheet?

[@sirius1320]

One side affect you didn't talk about is the following: Think about which dps are getting affected by that the most. That's right, Tracer and Sombra. Who has been dominating lately? Exactly, Tracer and Sombra. Why? Because they can shoot you across the map for one damage and apply the dps passive. I think, this is their answer to those characters being op because they can shoot tanks for 1 dmg across the map. Maybe they can still apply the dps passive, but now, they do a lot worse against armoured targets

[@kaiuniverse876]

No i love this idea, you need to do big bursts of damage to break armor. That's smart

[@mitchellmccroskey4568]

I’m pumped for the junkrat buff on top of these changes. It’s massively needed.

[@Wo00064]

Does anybody know how this will affect genji or was I supposed to be able to grasp what that was from watching the video?

[@user-je7sp4ye2f]

How much health would brig have after a pulse bomb while rally now?!

[@funwalkthroughs1285]

This a big one! Pulse bomb does 350, brig had 350 health, armor reduces to 345.

[@T0B1.]

Dva now does the same damage on body shots vs hs on Winston after the new armour and crit change. I can kinda guess who's going to be hard meta mid season.

[@Weightsss]

But you have to remember, as Dva, your main targets aren’t anyone with armor. Usually Dva is chasing squishies. So it’s about the play style.

[@T0B1.]

​@@WeightsssI'm high diamond on tank and I tend to spend half of my time diving backline and the other half peeling/dming dps. If they have a dive tank/dive centric comp then I'm spending a lot more time peeling. Dva is usually played as the counter to monkey, so if monkey doesn't have to worry about her (and reaper + bastion given the recent armour buffs), he's def going to be hard meta.

[@ironman1458]

@@T0B1. "Dva is usually played as the counter to monkey, so if monkey doesn't have to worry about her (and reaper + bastion given the recent armour buffs), he's def going to be hard meta." As a winston player, cap, D.va is not "the counter" she's one of like 20 different counters. If winston becomes meta people will just play brig, mauga, hog, heroes he's literally useless against. People really overestimate how impactful these changes will be tank is just gonna be the same counter swap rock paper scissors it always was.

[@ironman1458]

@@T0B1. Also flexing your rank on tank is just sad when the role is so dead. I literally got diamond from placements my first time playing comp in season 3 cause of how few tank players exist and now I'm in master with like 15 comp games played over the entirety of ow2. The rank system in this game is so cap especially for tank which is just beyond a dead role

[@tigerfalco]

Traditionally in most games burst damage is weak against tanks but sustain damage is better. The OW2 armor is good against burst, but OW1 armor is good against sustain, which will weaken the tank busters like Bastion and Reaper. Burst damage is also easier to heal against, though because Overwatch is more an FPS than a Moba its not a direct 1-1 because damage is dealt by guns more so than abilities so we'll have to see but i understand where theyre going with this.

[@xBermellonx]

so you are saying that the counter pick is going to be super intense on this update

[@tau-5794]

Basically: DOT status effects and beam weapons do the same damage against armor as against normal hitpoints (buff) Individual pellets or attacks that do 10 damage or less are going to be reduced by 50% (nerf) Individual pellets or attacks that do more than 16.5 damage are going to do more damage than before (buff) Any weapon that can headshot and does 100 or more damage on headshot with a single projectile will do more damage than before against tanks with armor (buff)

[@azseal2669]

Just pointing this out before next week's patch goes live; Tanks aren't the only heroes with armour. Torb, Brig and Bastion will also all benefit/lose out from these changes. Just bear that in mind going into next season. Lol.

[@endershel8163]

This is very interesting to watch. But one question how does cactus puppy know about the damage?

[@bennettnez4711]

You can turn numbers on in custom modes and stuff. These guys literally sit in those modes and test every match up with visual numbers to get content. And I appreciate it haha

[@ThePhysicalReaction]

I can’t even get my teammates to look forward while walking

[@bossman4856]

I feel like after this patch, bastion is gonna need 50 of his health transformed into armor to compensate. Or he's just gonna be falling over like legos.

[@bennettnez4711]

Unfortunately people are generally ok with bastion being bad. It's pretty unfun when he is op

[@bossman4856]

@bennettnez4711 All I ask from the devs is that they make the ultimate better because it's not fun having the worst ult in the game.

[@bennettnez4711]

@@bossman4856 did you try mirrorwatch? The ult wasn't significantly better by any means but I thought it was at least more fun! Maybe they could do something like that. Feels like it should be changed more than just number tuned

[@bossman4856]

@bennettnez4711 I feel like it needs two more shots, Or just give back the OW1 ult and it would be fixed.

[@bossman4856]

@bennettnez4711 Or just reduce its cost, Because the way it works right now it's like a tracer pulse bomb. It's meant to kill one person.

[@persianman-sz7ir]

Dva vs winton matches will be so fun

[@braydonsowell]

I still don’t understand how Zarya isn’t affected. They are reverting armor so her damage no longer should be 133 of 190. It would make sense it would be 185 of 190 I guess, but they didn’t cover Moira’s suck or Sym’s beam in this chart. Winston is an exception because of his buff. So will Zarya be doing 190 and ignoring armor?

[@johnathantaylor4862]

Dva and winton prolly gon pop off. I’m ngl I wish they give jq 100 armor like they did ram some seasons ago

[@jodyb1095]

I know this is something totally off topic and most people probably don't care, but I really wish Flats's editors would put the music they use in the video's description.

[@seecretshy5026]

this kinda feels unintentional guess we will see in a few weeks

[@supermegaultraawsome]

Excited to get to play monke and queen!

[@chocolatepotato5469]

Wasn't ventures damage changed to all be dot? So venture ignores armor with all attacks??

[@ghostriposte2977]

Everyone’s talking about how some tanks will be finally playable like Winton, but no one is talking about how Mauga (and hog) ALSO get this change and now will basically never die

[@wabblewabblegugacjibblebut9375]

Mauga will do less critical damage, less fire damage and less normal damage, meaning he is also healing less and gaining less overhealth while also being bursted down by Sojourn or Widow quicker. Mauga is getting giganerfed by this patch.

[@MutatedAmerican]

So if I'm getting this right: Anyone doing less than 17 per pellet will notice a difference as they will be doing less damage to armored heroes. And if anyone is doing less than 50 per pellet will notice a difference as they will be doing less damage to armored heroes SPECIFCALLY ON HEADSHOT! Here is my math equation for reference: For body: x - 0.3x = x - 5 For headshot: x-0.30x = (x-5)-0.25x If this is all done correctly, then heroes like Tracer will lose on both ends, Zen/Baptiste will win in body shots/lose to headshots, Cassidy will win on both ends

[@bigfudge2031]

But Zen opens a new can of worms because he is always going to discord the tank making them take 25% more damage.

[@GS-el8ll]

need to know JQ shotgun interaction

[@manuelgeraldino2235]

Im concerned over how does this solve counter picking for tanks

[@accuratememin]

While tanks may be weaker to projectile heroes, they're also stronger against tank busters such as Winston, Reaper, and Mauga, which is HUGE.

[@jackalfire6797]

I really like this update because it's actually really interesting. Instead of just buffing armer so everyone is shit thay changed it that it both "buffs and nerfs" some characters in context so this with definition shake up the meta and I think that's a good thing

[@Younghoon15]

The real winner is the tank headshot and knockback passive. Tanks with armor will just have a better time with the shotgun and pellet gun heroes, since armor will make it so their health won't be chunked equally from every source. The armor change may make poke and heroes with high instances of damage to be more meta.

[@MrUnshield]

Is there a link to this spreadsheet?

[@bigfudge2031]

literally in the description.

[@MrUnshield]

@@bigfudge2031 Nowhere to be found in the description but Flats posted the link 13h ago, all good Thanks for the comment, I came back to check it!

[@29780636Y]

I'm not understanding, what's the new formula for armor, how can it recieve more damage?

[@kevinwilson471]

What about maugas fire dot?

[@haku4841]

Illari players in particular don’t go for headshots on tanks you only do 8/9 more Dmg and it’s more like you miss if they got crazy strafe, just aim centre mass Hopefully they slightly nerf it to 20% and if tanks need strength just buff them individually cause 25% is crazy for non armoured tanks aswell and it’s actually pretty difficult to consistently headshot doom and junkerqueen even ball for example especially if you’re playing projectile characters

[@ikhalid1418]

good. from the start of overwatch armor was supposed to be better against rapid smaller caliber bullets and shotguns. 30% universal dmg resistance was a bad change.

[@skojdotcom5379]

They should add armor to the tanks skins (which breaks when you have no armor left) so you can tell when they are out of armor.

[@DarkRaBBiT42]

While I agree that this would look nice and communicate more intuatively when the armor is broken, in a game where you get healed into armor-health, have it broken, healed back into armor-health etc., it would add a lot of visual clutter. For now, we can just look at their health bars to see if they have orange in it or not :)

[@kylepackard7499]

Do we just play ana-zen/ ana kiri dive or bap zen/bap illari poke now? Lucio and brig will have trouble peeling for their other support if a tank jumps them so it might be best to just out damage the dive instead of try to cc...

[@Louis-qo9dm]

It seems that you don't understand how to play neither brig nor Lucio. Winston, ana and brig will be meta

[@ironman1458]

well just guessing of course but to me I think brig looks like one of the people to benefit a lot from this. a lot of the tanks that benefit from these changes and people are saying will be op, brig denies their entire existence by just standing there

[@natsuki9465]

So how does this graph work with Discord orb, or is that simply a multiplier put on after all that calculation

[@bigfudge2031]

The damage threshold to do more damage against armour is 17, so if any character that does 14 damage will go over the threshold with a Zen or Mercy.

[@TheCakeChan1]

I wonder if echo duplicates she will gain armor or shield health

[@realms4219]

Headsets and crits should generally be the same mechanic, design-wise. If they are different, is that intended? the tank passive says headshots...

[@bennettnez4711]

Could have to do with the fact that maugas crits take no skill unlike every other character on the roster. I admit it is strange though

[@Tropical3k]

THE NUMBERS MASON!!!!!!!! WHAT DO THEY MEAN!!!!!!

[@petermartinez6363]

Sojourn is gonna be crazy

[@lucamancini2376]

i like how hanzo after the nerfs is so bad that doesn't eaven get mentioned while tecnically being the second sniper in the game

[@TheFlipperFins]

good thing bastion turret mode doesn’t crit. Gonna be crazy the gap in dps now 😭

[@Akary999]

So as mauga an you set someone on fire and have auto crits... does it still checks where the bullets land cause wont your damage be a little less if a few of your shots hit the dead in you barrage...

[@zer0Ideas24]

Finally Junker Queen Meta again, our time has come to terrorize once again, you mean I can now full charge a team without getting pushed back, unable to take massive headshots, more damage on carnage and Knife(Gracie

[@xwarockx3959]

Why is a 50% damage reduction of tracers bullets marked as 20%?

[@aairosatherys3636]

OH THE WIDOW CHANGE DAMN lesgooooooo

[@dtabor85]

As a pharah main. Yessss. Yesssssssssssss!!!

[@Foggen]

I was today years old when I realized the pun inherent to "Ana Biotic"

[@kippbleu8289]

This change makes sense for role queues. However, these passives for open queue sounds op for a team of mainly tanks. 😬 I can foresee people playing tank busters like Reaper and bastion in open queue. It also might not change anything because most players are hitting body shots with these heroes. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@okami1272]

Open queue is basically an arcade mode anyway. I wouldn’t take it into account for balance.

[@kippbleu8289]

@@okami1272 lol true. Open queue feels like old Overwatch. You either love it or hate it. 😄 As a casual player, I think the fast queue time feels convenient.

[@okami1272]

@@kippbleu8289 It’s not even about loving or hating it, I just treat it as a goofy mode meant to provide crazy shenanigans.

[@chrislabedzski9076]

Exactly I only aim the body on tanks anyway I never aim for the head (except for windowmaker) because it's easier to hit and most of them time players just outnumber the tank

[@superbnns]

%:47 I never understood Blizzard's insistence with using small numbers for damage values. Adding two, even one decimal point to the numbers in the game gives so much more leeway with balancing.

[@devonmerrifield9134]

feels like a skill parity move players that arent hitting headshots are gonna start getting a performance buff

[@yesryanispog]

i dont get it how does the new armour give some people more dmage when it went to 50%?

[@DEML91]

So for the overall player base this change is a tank nerf because most people can't headshot with most characters specially against tanks since they have a bigger body hit box and on top of that they made it so tank busters are worst overall.

[@Bigmaan111]

How much damage does soldier do? I think he might be in a sweet spot.

[@musicxxa6678]

Ramattra is so screwed. Cass will do 2x fth and you are dead. Ana will clown you. Winston will be insane because his weakness headshots and pellets. He counters high damage per bullet heroes anyway.

[@FizzTheFox]

dps ana about to go crazy

[@ggolden]

i guess its cass season... unless big hanzo buffs? :eyes:

[@234zuscoutjango9]

Isn't this a massive buff to zen? His damage with discord orb on a tank will be insane

[@ironencepersonal9634]

2:10 So, as Mauga, if you shoot the head while they are on fire, you do _less_ damage?

[@lizardship5321]

I think you'd do the same damage because your other chaingun will be doing 1.5X damage as it doesnt headshot on fire enemies. so from 1X + 2X to 1.5X + 1.5X

[@bennettnez4711]

Either way, it's funny to think about. Curious to see how he turns out

[@nullnull629]

Ball is dead in the water, can’t even attempt to peel for team against tanks now

[@LionXAnima]

GOD I don’t want to deal with another Sym meta

[@masonvanwagner8461]

Maugas life steal won’t be nearly as affective either, sounds like