The New Puritans: How the religion of social justice captured the western world

In this excellent discussion, filmed by WORLDwrite volunteers at the Battle of Ideas festival in October 2022, Andrew Doyle introduces us to his insightful new book and discusses it with Professor Frank Furedi.
The Puritans of the seventeenth century sought to refashion society in accordance with their own beliefs, but they were deep thinkers who were aware of their own fallibility. In The New Puritans: how the religion of social justice captured the Western world, Andrew Doyle examines the underlying belief-systems of this ideology. How has it risen so rapidly to dominate all major political, cultural and corporate institutions? Do we need a better understanding of where these new puritans came from and what they hope to achieve? Can we - as Doyle urges - develop a spirit of optimism in making the case for the reinstatement of liberal values?
Speakers:
Andrew Doyle -presenter, Free Speech Nation, GB News; writer and comedian; author, The New Puritans: how the religion of social justice captured the Western world and Free Speech and Why It Matters
Professor Frank Furedi - sociologist and social commentator; author, The Road to Ukraine: how the West lost its way and 100 Years of Identity Crisis: culture war over socialisation
Help the charity WORLDwrite film further vital debates by hitting the THANKS button on KZbin or donate to the charity's latest project via our JustGiving page at www.justgiving.com/campaign/s.... Thank you.

[@lirands2730]

ANDREW DOYLE is one of the most important voices of clarity to reach most people. He should be shared all the time.

[@sistermary]

Couldn't agree more

[@browndoc]

Agreed. Sitting here in Ireland waiting for someone to pipe up. The silent majority in fear and a media giving no-one of an opinion that contradicts that of their hijacked corporations a platform. Plus we need someone here who's able to speak clearly and effectively about it. Someone that people feel confident enough to get behind. It's creeping in fast with no resistance, into every aspect of our society. But I something's got to give eventually and there will be that backlash (as I type into the void of optimistic despair)

[@rjohndonahue8262]

1000%

[@sandpiper9288]

The fact that there are things are happening with the establishment in 2023 that are comparable to the Salem Witch Trials of 1692 is just testament to how pathetic mankind is and the public are guilty of everything. It was their duty to guide these things and force the government's hand when necessary. The public have failed miserably because they are stupid selfish moronic peasant scum. The vast majority of people only care about celebrities and dancing and getting drunk. And they breed like rats. Mankind wants nothing but mindless cubicle workers, so that's what they reproduce. And each generation ruins the genetics further and further, making unnatural humans, like deformed dog breeds that can't even breath, we are now a species that can't even function and is incapable of thinking its way out of any problems.

[@CrystalShadow]

💯💯💯

[@beamanact]

This is the most cogent and persuasive I've seen Mr. Doyle in a public forum and this is in large part because of the insights added to the conversation from Professor Furedi: a brilliant pairing, getting to the heart of this twisted movement we're grappling with. Having grown up one town over from Salem, MA, I think Doyle's Witch Hysteria comparison is apt. I often refer to a Twilight Zone episode called "It's a Good Life" in which a 5 year old boy with supernatural powers holds his family and community in terror. Everyone is terrified of doing something or saying something that will anger this tot-- smiling and sweating and stepping around him. If he's "triggered" by whatever he perceives as BAD, he points at the malfeasant and screams, "You're bad! You're very bad!" at which point he transforms the object of his ire into something grotesque and then sends them "to the cornfield" never to be seen again. I refer to cancel culture as "the cornfield." The only way this destructive, shrill, anti-intellectual nonsense will end is if a critical mass of people say NO MORE. Reasonable people, most of whom are against this stuff but are afraid to speak out, are THE MAJORITY. We need to remember that.

[@batkinssmart4273]

Andrew Doyle is indeed cogent and persuasive, a joy to listen to. But I've checked out several of the specific examples he quotes, and he does seem prone to exaggeration, which is a shame. The American School in London did go astray with its niche after-school clubs and slanted curriculum, but the school inspectors got it back on track pretty quickly. The current Ofsted report says it has now righted itself almost completely. The New Zealand proposals to teach traditional Maori knowledge were NOT to teach it as part of science classes. The "segregated parents' meetings in different classrooms" in Brentwood school, LA, were in fact Zoom meetings, where an over-zealous person made staff and parents into groups by race - and these were abandoned almost immediately. He would be more persuasive if he didn't distort the actual facts every time.

[@memoryhero]

let's assume straight away Andrew Doyle exaggerates. none of the things you mentioned are evidence of that. there may be evidence of it - again, none of what you mentioned would be it.@@batkinssmart4273

[@tspinnh]

Always great to hear Mr. Doyle speak. So articulate and to the point.

[@Mark-hc8ek]

If they can convince you to believe in absurdities they can convince you to commit atrocities.

[@KayE9]

Spot on! The invention of "trans kids" among other things, proves it

[@paulo1787]

Coerced more than convinced

[@jeffaddis5715]

very well said

[@garyweglarz]

What a strange world we've created in which to be - "woke" - essentially means to be so deeply asleep that one is literally disconnected from material reality itself.

[@darev6780]

It's amazing isn't it 😂😂

[@sandpiper9288]

It was by design. And the wokes are not guilty, they are society's dummies and should have been protected against extremism by a decently run society. But society is not decently run because the non-wokes failed so miserably. The majority of people are worthless, lazy, selfish pieces of shit. Incapable of anything good. Just glorified cubicle workers. So if a large percentage of society are dumb, and another large percentage are worthless scum, and another large percentage are evil and malicious and looking to make others suffer and help themselves at any cost.... then what percentage is left to actually fight its way out of this? One that's too small, that's what. Mankind has fucked its own destiny.

[@janmariolle]

I was pleased to see Andy Ngo share the violent reality of Antifa in the US. This was a fantastic panel and I appreciate you posting it for viewers around the world. The UK is leading the pushback against this ideology. KJK was here recently with Let Women Speak. She has lit a fire under our butts. What a proud legacy the UK has!

[@conrad152]

Amen sister !

[@lizzylass4805]

the uk is the leading pushback? i beg to differ!

[@jayjaydubful]

Where do you think leads the pushback? England has so far resisted gender self ID where a depressing number of countries have caved (although I think at the next general election all our work will be for naught)

[@Messier45_Pleiades]

The United Kingdom is indeed leading the fight against wokism. Thank God for the brave women fighting transgender madness.

[@fairislecat6413]

@@jayjaydubful this is where I think we need to step up and highlight the insane gender ideology capture of the opposition parties. I'm looking forward to KJK giving Starmer a run for his money. I think it's time to really campaign to get GI out of the NHS this year too.

[@dawnemile7499]

When I know more than "the experts" I recognize that our education system is in disarray.

[@MelissaKnoxwriter]

Common sense is so uncommon these days. Andrew Doyle provides bucketfuls of it, brilliantly. Thank you, Andrew Doyle.

[@natb9919]

Because the only "common senses" are the 5 senses. There is no universal knowing called "common sense". That's the mistake people make, that all people have a common "knowing" or "sense". They don't, some do, but it's not universal. Even in different cultures, what people commonly "know" or have a "common sense" about is different.

[@brandankelly4069]

Absolutely brilliant conversation. With public discussions such as these there is yet hope for common sense and reason to prevail. Many thanks.

[@saltburner2]

I live in hope of Dr. Andrew Doyle (MA, DPhil, Oxon) becoming Vice Chancellor of his Alma Mater.

[@pumpkinpaper]

If they can coerce you into saying words they've made up as if they were real and to say things that you know to not be true, as if they were...they win.

[@Microphunktv-jb3kj]

,,, and americans do believe... in soviet union people played along.. but noone were brainwashed in what nightmare they are living in (atleast not in estonia)

[@chrisbaxter3597]

Language is power - it’s about making people conform - if you don’t use the correct language then you will be cast out

[@marilynloftin9225]

Satan is a deceiver, and the author of lies. Reject God, and He will turn you over to Satan

[@KiRichardTaylor]

Academia has always had it's fair share of "out there" thinking. But back in the day only around 12% of the population were exposed to higher education. The circa 88% went straight in to the world of work and survival between ages 16-18 and dealt with the realities of life. The transition to 50% of folk now going in to higher education, and huge expansion of the university sector across the western world, seems to correlate with the explosion of bonkers initiatives and ideas.

[@jayjaydubful]

Wow yes, good point

[@tirisu3635]

A discussion that needed to happen and that, hopefully, will seriously spread in the western world. We all need to be courageous and, yes, humble to help it along. Thank you

[@ewajustka]

watching this gives me hope in humanity. the world needs more of you being outspoken please! especially within the arts.

[@garym6315]

I always say that this sort of thing started with reality TV. With the introduction of Big Brother on TV you were suddenly telling couch potatoes that their views matter and they could very literally vote away the person they hated most. They were judging people's level of niceness or nastiness based on seeing them on TV for a few hours. Then we got social media and that just enhanced that idea that everyone's opinion mattered and enhanced the notion of judging complete strangers based on superficial evidence. So now we have online platforms for a generation who think it's their moral duty to judge others and instead of voting them off a TV show they try to vote them off of life by cancelling them. We need to regress slightly by removing that online platform for people vent their opinions and judgements of others. Without an online presence, this minority would mean nothing.

[@DarkAngel2512]

Excellent observation. It was then compounded in social media with debate pages and the "like" feature and "laugh" reacts. People were wiring themselves to take positions on EVERYTHING. It makes people binary in thinking and polarised. It's why people cant hang out with their mates anymore for having a diff view on something. I sometimes think if they removed comments sections it might help but then we wouldnt be able to correct the misinformation the establishment pushes. I prob wouldnt have redpilled on certain things without comments sections. Maybe social media might be the thing that helps us out of this as woke culture may have been an inevitable outcome without social media but would have happened more gradually and we may have not noticed it creep up. With it sped up we can see the idiocy of it and attack it quickly, hopefully. Sadly with many casualties in the process.

[@steveb3881]

Extremely interesting. Andrew Doyle is always good. His latest book is superb.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Andrew is brilliant and lovely and funny.💕🙏🏽🐘

[@KayE9]

Agree! Very down to earth, he makes the subject interesting and accessible.

[@paulbadics3500]

Hearing questions of the young people gives me some hope..they will be the ones to save us

[@jonb4020]

A phenomenally cogent and very necessary discussion.

[@lemoncrash1814]

Fun fact: one theory on the Salem hysteria is a fungus called rye ergot, which turns hallucinogenic when baked into bread, might have caused the mass hysteria.

[@melissajones5985]

I loved the panel and host. Was also impressed by the audience questions, particularly the man who brought up the changing language in cricket.

[@user-yc4dc2fs5n]

Frank Furedi's comment about how "for the last 30 years" people have been speaking about/hoping for the end of this so-called "fad" made me realize with a shock that it's actually been 42 years since I was introduced to it as an English major at Cornell---a campus rife with Deconstructionists, where i was assigned to attend every lecture by visitors like Derrida and Foucault. Wow, time flies.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Should also be noted that the Salem Witch Trials ended because the Governor of Massachusetts of the time, Sir William Phips, explicitly cited the Bible and pointed out that the trials were breaking basic principles of Ancient Hebrew Law that they had adopted as followers of Christ in the theocratic Massachusetts colony. Things like, "Requiring two witnesses having collaborating testimonies to support any claim", "The accused having the right to confront the claims of his/her accusers", and so on.

[@roxee57]

The point about the indoctrination of kids was the most important I think. We can work as hard as necessary to persuade our current elites, especially our political elites, to stop being cowards & enforce the law, but if we do nothing about the indoctrination of kids it will be all for naught as successive tsunamis of the indoctrinated enter adulthood and sweep everything before it. We need to reform the rules of how we teach the teachers, urgently.

[@j.r.3981]

You want to indoctrinate kids. People like you usually have a sexual interest in children. Most pedophiles identify as conservative.

[@ac27934]

Agreed. It's the Red Guards of the Chinese Cultural Revolution waiting to happen all over again.

[@markusstewart9298]

Hot damn!! Well said, and we’ll presented!

[@marionreynolds7080]

Prof Dennis Hayes wrote a critique 15 years ago entitled The Rise and Rise of Therapeutic Education which described the current culture in academia which contained many references to ‘vulnerability’. It was clear that confident and curious children were regarded as outsiders who had no contributory role to offer in the class room.

[@peacemaker6662]

Some years ago I decribed this woke stuff as a 'dictionary war'. Needless to say it didn't gain much traction then but it encourages me to hear Andrew basically describe it as such.

[@craighart9278]

Andrew Doyle brought me here - subscribed.

[@tupacalypse88]

new puritans that's a fascinating comparison

[@iiiiiiiiiiii90000000]

I preordered this book and so excited to receive it

[@alexiamunizb]

Always love what Doyle has to share and his openness towards true discussion. Would suggest organizers to request questions from the audience as opposed to long opinions.

[@dawnemile7499]

Fighting back seems to have lost favour with the people who should have the courage to do so.

[@frenchenstein]

Awesome video👍🏽

[@tartuttest]

Long time fan of Andrew, new fan of Ferudi as a result of listening to this intellectual discussion. Former resident of Andover, great books have been written with modern theories about how the mania spread and held throughout the Puritan colony. Legal system infiltration is the frightening thing today as it was then--e.g. Andrew at 36-38 min in.

[@ianmatlock1]

What a wonderful and insightful hour

[@TheWhitehiker]

Andrew on the beam--with flips and graceful turns! Frank's perceptions defeat the wokerites.

[@charlycole7850]

We better do all the legal cases quickly now.

[@user-ll8mt4so4l]

Excellent discussion. Mansize tissues come to mind

[@ed7519]

Share these important videos with your friends and families!

[@mikegray8776]

Excellent presentations, as you would expect from Andrew and Frank - BUT why have a Q & A session with no A’s ?? Giving the microphone to an endless stream of opinionated self-regarding attention seekers (often at very tedious length) without addressing any points made, seems a fairly pointless exercise. Comments -if short and concise - are perfectly valid - but why then form every point as a question …. to then ignore it.

[@sebastianforbes1]

an excellent, most rational, debate...

[@jayjaydubful]

Why are we not getting the responses to the questions?

[@normanshadow1]

Excellent discussion.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

This is indeed a Religion. What is Religion? Encyclopedia Britannica defines Religion as: "The relationship between human beings and that which they consider sacred, holy, or the absolute turth...Often encompassing beliefs regarding the origin of humanity and the universe, the purpose of both's existence, and the ultimate fate of both humanity and the universe." "Social Justice" holds "The "holy" victimized proletariat" (it is fundamentally Marxist in origin) as its deity. It's not a traditional humanist religion like Christianity, because it explicitly divides humans into sacred and demonic factions, excluding a portion of humanity it deems irredeemably evil, not to mention it puts its environmentalist beliefs (that put the value of the planet above the lives of individual human beings) up there too.

[@friedchicken4735]

The dictionary will just change the definition again

[@matthewscott4629]

Just like feminism

[@jenna2431]

We're starting to see the tide turn, thank goodness. More just need to stand down the "specters" and the cult will die.

[@leyeopejin6660]

All Liberal arts students (if those still exist today😢) must watch/write a paper on this

[@davidr9876]

Ty

[@allyourbase888]

Andy!! 🙌🏾

[@that1chickinFL]

I wish moderators would do a better job of emphasizing that audience members should have *questions* not statements if they want to be at the mic.

[@DarkAngel2512]

I am glad he said "the last 12 years" because that's when I pinpointed this all stemming from

[@johnflavin1602]

Around the same time the smart phone was invented, no coincidence.

[@DarkAngel2512]

@@johnflavin1602 that too along with social media bringing in Timeline and the ability to see all your friends effed up views and getting drawn into controversial threads they're on.

[@Happyheretic2308]

Great discussion, but wanted to say what a beautiful voice the “chap with all the hair” has.

[@dawnemile7499]

The problem is that tolerance has become permissiveness.

[@mikewilcox5284]

Andrew might I suggust you draw a connection between mew puritanism and neoliberalism,. Fredrick von Hayek (arguabky the founder of neoliberalism) called the concepts of equity and social justice suoerstitions and myths or as he said 'like believing in witches'. Are these cultural developments then a reaction to a neoliberal economice sydtem which at its core does not rely on equity and social justice?

[@ribeirojorge5064]

I seriously believe that these people are afraid of Someone who has Compromising Information that could completely ruin their reputation and that are using them as puppets.

[@DieFlabbergast]

What -- all of them!? What planet do you live on? This is the sort of conspiracy theory that would be too far out even for Alex Jones.

[@ribeirojorge5064]

@@DieFlabbergast the Biden laptop is just an clear example... You would also say that sexual abuse in parishes and religious teaching institutions is just a conspiracy... until you realize that they are much more institutional practices than we imagine... I could be generalizing... yes... but the guilt and the shame have always been and are excellent occult weapons of domination and subjugation... and calling conspiracy theories... is inverting reality... conspiring is as old as the Human Being. From the Unconscious Hell ❤️ To the Conscious Hell 💚 Until the Paradise of Consciousness 💜

[@ribeirojorge5064]

@@DieFlabbergastand if I'm completely wrong... the other possibility always remains... that is very stupid, sick and malevolent people... hahahahahaha

[@judeross3875]

Thanks for the share. Am always reminded of the story of the sun and the wind fighting to remove the coat of a non specified human being!!

[@excellentcomment]

Date of this panel:. Oct 15 or 16, 2022

[@micksc1]

This is probably racist but i treat people as individuals

[@KayE9]

How dare you Mick. Disgusting behaviour 🤣🤣

[@jeffaddis5715]

@@KayE9 Heretic! 😜

[@KayE9]

@@jeffaddis5715 🤣🤣

[@gillhughes6644]

mischaracterising this as between the left and right - you are so correct Andrew. And I hate it when people say it is the feminists who argue that gender can be equated with sex and silly arguments like that. It is not the feminist movement per se. And they talk about feminists versus conservatives (in America anyway) and the conservatives are the only ones who see sense. Well, I am a feminist socialist, and I damn well know the difference between sex and gender and i know that second wave feminists fought against gender stereotyping then - so it is hardly feminists who now assert that gender trumps sex.

[@mikegray8776]

Too much talk these days about the term ’gender’ which has always meant precisely the same thing as ‘sex’, until louche French sociologists, 3rd wave feminists, and airhead American faux-academics got hold of it, and mangled it beyond reasonable recognition. There is Sex/Gender and there is Sexuality/Personality. That’s it. One is strictly biological and binary, the other describes a state of mind which is complex, but wholly irrelevant to anyone other than the person arriving at that subjective self-determination.

[@isabelrice4494]

So informative. Thank you.

[@zulkiflijamil4033]

this is an excellent dialogue and discussion. I am not an informed and naive person, but is there such a phrase like vegan phobia? Thank you in advance.

[@AmanitaWoodrose]

people stick the word 'phobia' onto any word they fancy these days, why not!

[@DieFlabbergast]

People who use "XX-phobia" terms don't mean it in the clinical medical sense, i.e. fear of XX. They use it to mean "hatred of XX." Thus, a "homophobe" is someone who hates gays. There ARE people who hate vegans, but they must be VERY small in number.

[@wl4131]

I agree 100% with the woman that asked if we should ban sociology

[@CynthiaMoon23]

For me, I see this in the context of the culture that was created in the 60s dying, and something replacing it. It's not a question of IF this goes away, but how much damage it does before it does. It's a cycle that all cultures go through. What will replace it is another question.

[@matthewscott4629]

When will people learn that ANYTHING backed by media and big money is NOT for the peoples best interest.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Should be noted that "The Crucible" was written by a Social Justice Marxist Communist-Apologist type himself, Arthur Miller, who wrote the play explicitly trying to compare the hunting of witches to the Joseph McCarthy Senate Hearings seeking for communist infiltrators into the US government and military in the 1950s. As Elias Kazan's wife Molly Thacher (the two of them being former fellow travelers with American communists and their political parties) said, so perfectly torpedoeing Arthur Miller's pathetic attempt at comparison, "Those witches did not exist. COMMUNISTS DO. Here, and everywhere in the world. It’s a false parallel. Witch hunt! The phrase would indicate that there are no Communists in the government, none in the big trade unions, none in the press, none in the arts, none sending money from Hollywood to Twelfth Street. No one who was in the Party and left uses that phrase. They know better."

[@plekkchand]

This is a valuable observation.

[@saje239]

“It’s not a gotcha question just ‘cause it got… cha.” -Jon Stewart on Sarah Palin Now it’s applicable to half the politicians in the west 😩

[@micksc1]

This is not Q and A this is simply statements

[@excellentcomment]

Very true. I was a bit indignant at first, but then I enjoyed the thoughts of those who commented. So I've gone to the other polar extreme, and I think every seminar needs time for audience insight. When you least expect it, a slice of pure pro-humanity.

[@presstodelete1165]

We have mysoginie laws to look forward to soon, put them over the backdrop of the self ID laws and it's not hard to imagine the endless witch trials to come.

[@likklej8]

I call it revisionism. Maybe like Kurt Vonnegut’s Handicapper General if some one is very beautiful they have to wear a brown paper bag so if you aren’t in the so beautiful person group you don’t feel bad.

[@mjm5081]

I fear that the ship has sailed and those who have charted its course consider Logic, Reason, and Common Sense nonessential cargo.

[@robertbaltha3371]

Everyone should read 'Die Welle' the wave, a German book and movie too.

[@sophy4055]

So refreshing and reassuring.

[@tagus100]

Who is the host here?

[@presstodelete1165]

There is an argument that this is a new way of instilling fear into society. If the public are affraid you can increase your power over them just wrap it in suggar coating. The insidious part is that both sides of the devide are now frightened.

[@Happyheretic2308]

NBphobia - fear of having things pointed out (NB = nota bene)

[@KayE9]

Underrated comment!!!

[@purpshiso]

the lighting choice is funny and makes them look like they have dyed green hair 😅🤣

[@mark4asp]

Frank says : the first use of "the personal is political" was from a 1971 book.

[@hanichay1163]

Dr. Os Guinness described our times as another Civil War with no Lincoln.

[@bath_neon_classical]

i have been trying to get an answer to the question "when did society construct gender?" for weeks but no one will engage with me. I'm interested from the perspective of evolutionary biology. also, im a big homer fan and it seems men and women had similar "performative" roles three thousand years ago. thanks

[@ribeirojorge5064]

Love Truth above All Things ❤️ Accept and Thank the Suffering 💚 (from the Knowledge of Truth) Confront and Illuminate Malevolence 💜 From the Unconscious Hell ❤️ To the Conscious Hell 💚 Until the Paradise of Consciousness 💜 Thaaannnk Yooouuu ❤️ 💚 💜

[@judytaquino6412]

The grain fungus Ergot caused various odd symptoms that the superstitious blamed on witchcraft.

[@saltburner2]

'Taking the Knee' has become a bit like genuflecting before the Blessed Sacrament in Catholic (and High Anglican) churches, done even by those with no knowledge of (or belief in) the dogma of Trans-substantiation.

[@CheapGodiva]

In Salem as now, the error remains the same, listening to women.

[@MrLibtard]

This ☝️

[@Hiraghm]

Check your premise: the very people making the accusations of "transphobia" are the same ones who say that transphobia is a bad thing. IMO, it's a natural and healthy thing.

[@sarahblaquiere3121]

It's one thing to question and challenge our human conceptualisation of particular situations - it's quite another level to say that material realities don't exist unless humans apply language to them. Of course the phenomenon of same-sex attraction has existed for as long as humans have (longer, since it exists amongst other mammals and also birds) - that humans in different times and places have understood this phenomenon in different ways doesn't change its underlying reality. That's got to be where the line is drawn. Human concepts don't invent the material realities they describe.

[@bonniehamilton2147]

I like the idea that your sexuality should not define you ....words to live by.

[@evilchaperone]

Salem Witch Trials needs to come back to root these people out!!!

[@savedfaves]

As ugliness rises the good will come up to meet it. It’s always been this way and always will be. The timeline is the difficult bit to nail down. That is uncertain. Inevitable, but unpredictable

[@biry0501]

Step one in fighting this: Stop calling it “social justice.” They don’t own social justice; you’re not going to get people to say they are against “social justice.” Social justice is an ancient struggle that is at least as old as the Old Testament. This is postmodern identitarianism.

[@winstonwordsmith1161]

I very much appreciate the comments by Doyle and responders, but Fuledi is off-base here with the original meaning of "the personal is political." This is PRECISELY AN EXAMPLE OF EQUIVOCAL MEANINGS OF LANGUAGE THAT DOYLE HAS WRITTEN ABOUT. If Fuledi claims he supports the first five principles of the feminist movement (wherever they are--I write as a radical feminist who's pretty well read on these issues), but they're entirely "personal." Rape and battering weren't prosecuted in a marriage but laughed off, because it was "personal." Whatever that was deemed "personal" was free of any regulation by law enforcement and jurisprudence, and all things female were deemed inherently "personal." Being asked out at work by the boss (happened frequently) or professors (happened frequently) or grabbed on the behind (I punched a guy in the nose at an ACC championship party) (which happened frequently) was laughed away--it was "personal." You've got to comprehend that this "personal" was deconstructed, ad infinitum. And frankly, it HASN'T been worked out carefully. But what we DO know is that this initial understanding that "personal" vs "public" was used as a way to silence women; and that now, the "personal" is being used, particularly through transgender activism, as ANOTHER way to silence women. Doyle, I hope you see this and write me--I'm a professsional writer who'd love to sketch out some arguments for you here (gratis) as a co-author while you take the lead. Someone's got to analyze this fundamental concept, and I've been asked to by a prominent feminist online journal and simply need a partner to do so, because it's a doozy. But it needs to be clarified. TLDR: The personal is political as a slogan cannot be easily dismissed as the origin of the totalitarian, misogynistic, racist, homophobic social justice movement--like "equity" and "tolerance," it's another word or phrase that's been twisted through Foucauldian and po-mo thought into another means to shut women up.

[@scythermantis]

OR... maybe... YOUR 'lived experience' is the filter and veil that you can't get out from behind, and so potentially the whole goal is NOT 'shutting women up' but DESTROYING the SYNTHESIS upon which the family is built (just read the Communist Manifesto) which IRONICALLY also happened through Capitalism (although not so ironic if you see them as a Materialist Dialectic) as corporations wanted to have women in the workplace and pay the workers half as much and I write this as a (former) Marxist! In other words, I sympathise with your experience, and those of women in general obviously (ESPECIALLY those who are discriminated against because of course companies KNOW that SOME women still want to have kids and have a family and so DON'T HIRE them if they can get away with it; they just find another person for the job who their algorithm doesn't tell them is likely to have kids in the next couple years)... BUT aren't lonely, often virgin men, toiling away at jobs like construction, welding, technicians, janitors, garbage collection, line workers, etc. ... isolated and invisible... isn't there ALSO an institutional oppression against them? Stalking and Harassment are the other side of the coin to Isolation and Neglect... (Yeah I know I said something provocative at that last line, but what's the point of writing if you don't have something to anchor yourself against, and try and upset the system a bit; I style myself as a writer as well, after all, and we ought to be friends)... That's just a low-rent sage's attempt at touching their bit of the elephant, after all...

[@winstonwordsmith1161]

@@scythermantis "Stalking and Harassment are the other side of the coin to Isolation and Neglect... " "Isolation and Neglect" are not the opposite of "Stalking and Harrassment." Your concluding that is part of the issue. "Isolation" is an internal state of mind, and adults are not entitled to the attention of any other adult, unless they're under medical care. You appear to believe that males are entitled to something from females, instead of responsible for their own emotions and their own social state. There are plenty of females--especially older, or conventionally unattractive in some way--who also feel isolated, and would appreciate the attention of others, whether romantic or platonic. In addition to those feelings, they can also face harassment, stalking, ridicule, invisibility (like having their ideas repeated by men to great praise in a meeting--this is a common experience), and physical violence by men they know or don't know. 97% of sexual violence against women is committed by men; 90% of all violence is committed by men. So how is that when some men have difficult emotional lives, women are responsible for that? No one owes you sex. You are especially aren't owed sex by females who look like the adolescents objectified in pornography. I find it ironic that many 'incel" type men refuse to consider dating women who aren't conventionally attractive in some way, even though they themselves aren't. Bottom line: Give to get. Give love to get love. Work on yourself and reach out to others and relationships of all kinds will come to you. Expecting women to manage your emotions breeds resentment, mental illness, and a kind of spiritual death. Look to your Higher Power as your source, and you will radiate love and stability to others effortlessly. God bless.

[@scythermantis]

@@winstonwordsmith1161 First of all, you misinterpret and ignore the meaning in what I said. But that is only to be expected. To be honest, someone like you is clearly not my target audience. Devoid of revolutionary impulse or consciousness, you are not useful to the praxis which must occur in order to will change which will inevitably be resisted by the system. Being confronted by status quo shills is to be seen as a badge of honour! For the record, I completely reject your interpretation of such paradigms. THE THREAT IS STRONGER THAN THE EXECUTION. Furthermore, WE SHALL SEE who in society is actually 'important' while my groups have been attempting and continuing the process of gaining control of the various 'chokepoints' in society. How many of these people you seem to have so much sympathy more are ACTUALLY rejected? We both know that there is a systemic imbalance, and I know this from not only my own experience, but those of many others. I was even sent a message by someone, the last I ever received, basically mocking me as an "80-year old monk who died, never having seen a woman in his life, even his mother, who was taken from him at birth." Well... anyways... the line workers, technicians, mechanics, plumbers, truck drivers, janitors, non-destructive technicians, etc. ... THEY are the true neglected class here. If colleges are 60% women now, shouldn't they be willing to be with a guy who doesn't have a college degree? Who gave them all that power? To see it as 'settling'? They EXIST on our BACKS! And by the way, I also completely reject both your statistics, and your interpretation of them. The statistics that I've seen indicate that ACTUALLY something around 75% of domestic violence is INITIATED by women, which makes sense, because culturally there is no inhibition against hitting a man like there is in hitting a women. Men are the eternal punching bags. If you don't understand the systemic bias in reporting that also for example would cause a man to never report such things because it is 'unmanly', then you're almost not worth talking to. But I also never accepted 'statistics' as a proper monarchical version of reality anyways. I am typing this out primarily for all those who would read it, and be inspired... as Marx tells us, the point of history is not to STUDY history, but to MAKE history! SOW THE WIND, and REAP THE WHIRLWIND.

[@dawnemile7499]

Correction. They come to believe that their initial doubts were wrong.

[@ladylove3636]

Oh gosh this bit reminds me of a conversation 10 years back, big beat was called something else before it was called big beat, and someone was insisting it couldn't exist till it was called big beat. But I knew the scene before big beat, same scene it had to exist for it to be named. Postmodernists are proper annoying x

[@ladylove3636]

43m x

[@matt4887]

They won a few battles but definitely not the war

[@billthompson7072]

Nietzsche's #125 😊

[@lirands2730]

Ps, Why do people continue to call some people "Elite". I think this is a big part of the problem. Name whomever on the name.

[@paulbadics3500]

Young people on the right to fight back with humour & mimes & big tech just cancelled them from the public square

[@billjordan2291]

Terrific discussion. Doyle's presentation about his book is superb and right on the money. I speak as a US Unitarian Universalist who has seen church overtaken by this pathology. Freedom is truly at risk. But his colleague went off the rails in criticizing Kaepernick's taking a knee. That was a legitimate protest of the state of black America, which is the result of hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow. A comparison is instructive. At Salem, there weren't actually any witches. But in the US there has been and continues to be suppression and harm to racial minorities. They also went off the rails in discussing gender and sex. Indeed, there are more than two sexes. One of our congregant was born with vestiges of both sets of equipment. Intersex. This is not something to ridicule. Also, there are certainly more that two genders and have been in many societies over the years. An otherwise excellent discussion was undermined by disrespectful statements on these issues.

[@benfurbank]

@AndrewDoyle I think the new Puritans should be called "Purityrants"

[@andrewhay2241]

Are they the new puritans, or the new pre reformation catholics?

[@suegittins3579]

Andrew Doyle good value.disagree that feminist slogan”the personal is political” somehow links to “a man can be a woman”.the first was apt and timely,the second ......bunkum

[@Moochie007]

I like to know if a writer is gay because I've often found their books immensely enjoyable, in a way that other writers often are not. So there.