The New Sub-Zero Meta

[@TeddyPESO]

I watched it to the end !!!! Very knowledgeable of your thoughts and combos. It certainly helps me understand the new Sub-Zero tech !

[@SNELPACK]

I don’t even ply sub . I just love the dedication and love you have for this char😮

[@mrAPchem]

Thank you!! This is my main character all the way from the OG MK1 for arcades. And if an MK game exists and Sub-Zero is a character in that game, then that's who I will play.

[@SNELPACK]

@@mrAPchem I wish I found someone lik you that cover Shao like that

[@mrAPchem]

@@SNELPACK Have you been watching VideoGamezYo??? He's a tournament player that knows Shao in and out.

[@Occultic-t6s]

To this day the lin quei dive is my fav thing about sub. But seeing that corner clone setup is also safe is so cool. This character is sick XD

[@Random-n7b1x]

Sub zero mains should check out the team Subzero × Subzero. In my opinion its the best defense in the game, my recent video shows it in play. The subzero Kameo parry covers the time you dont have ice clone and it makes the opponent afraid to press a button. The parry beats armor everytime as long as its not a low or projectile armored wakeup. Makes sub even more of a nightmare if your stuck in the corner vs him. Should check it out and let me know what you think

[@mrAPchem]

It is an interesting team indeed I will say. However, I'm not crazy about how meter-intensive it is; you need bar to combo from Sub's best string, 21, which the vast majority of Kameos completely circumvent. Nonetheless, keep using that team against better players to see how well it holds up; perhaps you are onto something that the rest of us aren't quite aware of yet!

[@Random-n7b1x]

@@mrAPchem 🤛🏿

[@damionbaxter4912]

You can still combo off f12 with goro neutral kameo. You can either f12 clone goro or f12 goro clone. Either way done right the opponent gets frozen or your safe.

[@nikolaospierreas1251]

i just did the universal ice clone set up with one Sareena cameo bar, so it seems you can loop it only with Sareena though... but it's a start 🙂

[@AmaanSubzero]

21:53 it’s not about the damage or anything. If you catch them mashing on wake up f1 clone would either, armor break OR, ORRR freeze them. If they try to mash f1 clone would freeze combo, we cannot do f12 as a armor breaker that’s why it mattered so much

[@mrAPchem]

D1-Klone is a much better armor breaker than F1-Klone. It's a faster mid and low-profiles high wakeups. And the Lin Kuei Dive is an even more consistent armor-breaker than either of them.

[@AmaanSubzero]

@ yeah your right

[@c4ntstopdatrain618]

@@mrAPchem this is the issue. we were able to do f1 clone or f12 clone where A- if they mash they get comboed and B if they blocked it now they are in a setup. this no longer exists. thats where this issue lies. he is overall actually the same or worse. the best thing about him was corner game and setups and it no longer exists

[@mrAPchem]

@@c4ntstopdatrain618 One problem is that F1/F12-Klone did not and does not work against about half the cast on block as a setup. Characters like Rain and Ermac - as well as lots of others - can merely low block and break the Klone. That setup wasn't real, which is why I suggest for people to use B3-Klone instead, precisely because it works against every character on block or hit. Plus, B3 is faster than F1 and is a low. Also, if you hit-confirm the F12, you still do get a Klone freeze via the Deadly Vapors. Yes, the damage is lower, but we never did F12-Klone for high damage anyway. It was only exclusively used as a loopable setup into another Klone, which we are still able to do today.

[@c4ntstopdatrain618]

@@mrAPchem Okay so lets break this down ready. So yes correct all those things with f1/f2 not working in the corner anymore is a NERF it worked prepatch all those set ups it was always real i used it every game pre patch. now none of that exists. Secondly. b3 clone isnt good for two reasons. 1 cant hit confirm 2 it leaves them far away so if i go for b3 after it doesnt automatically knock them into clone like it used to. very bad setup. and thirdly, no, you cannot loop it anymore. They changed him for the WORSE. per usual.

[@Quan_G4]

U can also triple clone at the very lowest point of the BNB combo so u don't have to delay slide.

[@hitarezin]

Thats the best way to combo it for sure

[@nikolaospierreas1251]

Actually, you don't have to delay it. You have plenty of time. Dash frwd, jump 2,standing 3 or 4,slide (stamping version). If the BNB comes after an ice ball, do the switch slide immediately.

[@nikolaospierreas1251]

Amazing content. Once again. I'm labbing to something about his vapors and i want your opinion. Well, after the slide switch, i instantly do the vapors and it seems that it gives you safety and time against almost everything. I used it most on Johnny's Ex Shadow kick and it's safe. It's a very useful tool when your cameo is off the game. I had some problems with timing execution against Raiden's armored move. But overall against most opponents i faced it works. Excellent tool for safety, distance and time control

[@mrAPchem]

I actually never tried that, but now that you say this, I will certainly lab it and see how if fares! That is exactly the kind of out-of-the box thinking that we need! I will be very happy to test this.

[@mrAPchem]

Now I have tested this, and I must say that it works quite well!!!! You do need to be careful using this against characters with fast-advancing specials like Cage, Liu, Sub and some others because Deadly Vapors is -20 on block. However, against everyone else, this is something I think you should use often. Very good find!!!

[@ctunick3701]

Good video bro

[@theskinnyzoot4178]

These clone changes are giving me grandmaster mkx vibes just not as busted lol as for losing f12 in the corner it’s not that deep because ex deadly vapours serves the same purpose (even If it does cost meter) but as a sub main from day one that’s what I’ve always done anyway so I don’t see it as a nerf

[@mrAPchem]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. F12-Klone was a nice buff, but it didn't solve any issues that he had and is worth losing for a Klone that allows us to trap loop without needing meter.

[@theskinnyzoot4178]

@@mrAPchem exactly bro we sub mains are no stranger to adapting especially in this mk so like you said we need to let this patch cook I understand where people are coming from saying it’s a nerf but that’s just not the case these changes to the ice clone are huge and definitely a step in the right direction imho lol

[@Quan_G4]

Been waiting on u big bruh!💪🏾

[@mrAPchem]

Oh, I have more from whence that came, particularly with Sonya. Stay tuned!

[@nikolaospierreas1251]

Well, I found a window for the universl clone setup... kind of. It's about your girl Sareena. Well... try this set up in training mode .... put your opponent in the corner. Do an normal ice clone. Then standing 21,kia's blades, standing 21, kia's blades, b2, b2, jump 112,ice clone ((universal ice clone setup).... this combo gives you the exact time to recharge the ice clone... you can change the combo between kia's blades but the safest way is the footsie string

[@mrAPchem]

That is good!!! The only issue with this is that you wouldn't be able to loop it, but it could certainly help close a round out.

[@ValeneRosasjr]

U should go watch combo heaven he came up with some nasty combos 🔥

[@codeytuoro6240]

Yeah bro his combo timing will help a lot of sub main crack 50 % easy

[@mrAPchem]

I saw it!!!!!! I was quite impressed with what I saw!

[@TheBadAcidTrip420]

I like that dark sub zero skin. Is that a mod or can you get that as a reward?

[@mrAPchem]

This is a PC mod from Nexus Mods.

[@surrealiser4597]

this is sick. hey do you mind exploring tech with the new frost kameo changes with the new sub changes.

[@mrAPchem]

I will indeed do this - there's a lot of sauce to be found there.

[@Eji1700]

Set that doesn't matter - Great execution Rank up on the line - Shits shakey Recording in training mode for a video - fuck it I give up. Joking aside I'm glad to see whats shaking out since I won't have time to lab until probably after thanksgiving. I'm not shocked that the small extra % from clone in combo is no longer worth the cd as opposed to the gross shit it lets you do. Finally puts subs focus back on jailing them in the corner. I still wish they'd at least give sub's iceball a little longer freeze duration, because it feels absurd that cyrax gets a full combo and sub has to risk it all on "hope my slide doesn't get blocked because of the trade", but really looks like we've got some of the legs he's needed for a long time One thing i've wanted to check though is if triple clone finally breaks armor on its own. I suspect better players can just watch and react to which one you did and punish accordingly (outisde of the safe setup), but if triple clone at least stops the autopilot ex shadow kick stuff that might be worth looking into. Not sure what the hell sub is going to threaten full screen vs a patient player, but at least it's a few seconds of them having to deal with your setups/bullshit.

[@mrAPchem]

I can tell you that triple Klone does indeed armor-break EX Shadow Kick, especially after you use it with Universal Klone Setup. It will do so for any forward-advancing armored move. But to your other points, I fully agree; this character has gotten some of his old MK9 identity back where he's strongest in the corner. We just have to pick our spots as to when/where we Klone.

[@blasian318]

Nice break down. That must be pc them graphics and sub skin 🔥

[@mrAPchem]

It most certainly is!!!! Thank you for watching!!!

[@Bad_Juju24]

My sub can do 60% now before he was able to do 57%. I like that 3% difference

[@Gamerintriguingupdates.007]

Which cameo?

[@Bad_Juju24]

Cyrax I think sub got a little damage buff

[@stickyy_fingaas]

Why is your sub oiled up

[@VENGEFULHEXX]

That's the Diddy skin

[@mrAPchem]

It's a PC mod before the official UMK3 skin was released. I prefer the saturation of colors on this mod to the one that NRS gave us.

[@BenTower17]

Unless they change Zeros hit advantage so his not always minus then its not a buff. Its just for pretty looks.

[@mrAPchem]

What are you talking about? I literally showed a setup that is +43 on hit, giving us enough time to set a Klone up and then block a wakeup.

[@BenTower17]

@@mrAPchem his stit on a looser in that area against the rest of the cast. I think they shouda bin kinder to him in that area.

[@mrAPchem]

@@BenTower17 Now I'm even more confused about what you're saying...

[@gw7911]

Doesn’t he still need a recovery buff in his clone since a lot of characters like Tanya can just do stand 3 and punish him for it?

[@mrAPchem]

Yes, all the characters that could punish Klone before still can punish him for using it. But, given how much longer each Klone lasts, now that weakness is more effectively offset by its strength. Also, we can use the 1-bar Triple Klone to potentially escape opponents that punish the normal Klone.

[@ReneHamilton]

Skin omg???? How?

[@mrAPchem]

PC mod from Nexus Mods.

[@j_squad3005]

Frost tech 3.0 ?

[@mrAPchem]

It's on its way!

[@j_squad3005]

@@mrAPchem ❄️❄️❄️🥶☃️ Cool

[@Gamerprice40]

I’m interested to know why you’d want Ice Clone cooldown to be short on hit? Personally, I think Ice Clone having a short cooldown on hit could potentially cause balancing issues, I’m thinking that the cooldown should be shorter when it breaks on its own or when the opponent destroys it via projectiles. From a balancing standpoint, I think Ice Clone cooldown should be shorter when it doesn’t come into play. Either way, I’ll keep advocating for a slightly faster Ice Ball on Sub Zero because like you said, every other character with an “Ice Ball” has a significantly faster one that doesn’t even scale as bad as Sub Zero does lol. Ice Ball doesn’t even necessarily need to be a fast projectile, but it needs to be *fast enough* to be able to come into play instead of getting cancelled or blocked 99.9% of the time because of the start up.

[@mrAPchem]

The reason I want it to be shorter on hit is because I'd like for Sub players to be able to use Klone in their combos and then once the combo is done, set a Klone up right in the opponent's face. Same thing happens if the opponent happens to block a Klone; it comes back in 3 seconds rather than 6. Then, if the opponent doesn't get frozen by it or make any kind of contact with it, it goes away for its current cooldown time.

[@Gamerprice40]

@ Hmm I get what you mean, if that change were ever implemented I can already hear all the people crying about how OP Sub Zero is lol. Getting put right into another Ice Clone setup after landing a full kombo would definitely bring out the cry babies lmao

[@Gamerintriguingupdates.007]

@@Gamerprice40it’s better the crybabies cry than we sub main cry…. We want what’s best for us not for them.. if other characters are overly and endlessly buffed then why can’t subzero have what he is meant to have? Subzero is the face of MK as well as scorpion.. that said, I think the faces of MK should come first in everything in the game… I play MK cos of sub and scorpion otherwise I wouldn’t be here saying this shit… the buffed Nitara.. ask yourself WTF is Nitara compared to subzero? How many people know Nitara? Not much compared to the number of people who know subzero? Then why nerf subzero who made a lot of people know and love MK? Why buff homelander whom by MK lore isn’t in MK ? Why give ghost face mixups and not give scorpion mixups and made him reliant on cameos? Edboon and his goons are stupid…

[@TheNikolaYo]

​@@Gamerintriguingupdates.007Exactly that brother.

[@mrAPchem]

@@Gamerprice40 Oh yes, they will indeed certainly cry, but they'd be doing so no matter what Sub has been given. He was in a mediocre state up until now and we still had mfs crying about how he didn't need any buffs, so you know they'll cry now. But yeah, I want Sub to be predicated around using his Klone wisely and this past patch put him closer to that. I just want to be able to use our improved Klone in combos and then be able to put one in the opponent's face once the combo is done.