In my opinion ground freeze can just be replaced with a strong iceball. I think. That is me honestly in my heart. I think Iceball is such a fun and core part of sub, it is like scorpion spear.

He wouldn't even need Deadly Vapors to combo anymore if NRS gives him his Ice Ball back. That move could be turned into a tracking pop-up move that doesn't launch high enough for a combo unless meter is spent.

Precisely my point!! These characters seem to be the standard to which the rest of the cast needs to be raised up to.

I will never stop playing Sub-Zero, even if he's relatively trash. But it's only the squeaky hinges that get the oil that they need; the silent ones get nothing.

@mrAPchem but if everyone stops playing Sub zero then they'll see that nobody uses him and then buff him

Amen hallelujah!!!

Thank you for the kind words. Yes indeed Sub needs help with his fundamental issues.

Baraka is in a great space from a competitive standpoint, but I can certainly see why he could use a refresh.

Well, I'll say this - the same thing appeared to be true for Havik until Khaos Reigns dropped. That character was languishing in low-tier hell until now; if NRS can fix him, along with Shang Tsung, Scorpion, Nitara, Rain, Reptile and Li Mei, then they can certainly do it for Sub-Zero also. I just need to keep making videos like these for people to share with NRS to hopefully provide the impetus for them to make those changes.

I need to put that on a shirt lol!!!!!!

@@mrAPchem yessir!!

Thank you for the kind words!!!!!

yooo same lmfaooooooooo

I busted out laughing

Man, I wasn't ready for that number to be so high!!!!!!!

@@mrAPchem got me almost breaking my neck to see wtf happened cuz DAMN i never heard you yell 😂

Thank you! And I fully agree with that sentiment - Sub-Zero is too out-classed by the rest of the cast for them to let him remain poor.

@@mrAPchem truth! I hate to cast a potential negative possible outcome here...I think that if by kp3 and still nothing, well I guess that's it!

@@IICassiel This is true. But, I will say this - Shao Kahn mains in MK11 had begged for F34 to be special-cancellable since the beginning of that game's life. It took NRS years to add that to the game, but they did - only because Shao Kahn players never stopped asking for it.

@@mrAPchem agreed! Persistence is key don't back down! 😤😤

Happy Birthday to you!!!!!!!

You clearly don't play MK or even fighting games at all.

It’s not even just ice ball bro. Give him different frame data for other shit such as his slide. Maybe a decent projectile that doesn’t combo like ICE AXE. Like please, you can disrespect sub so much bro. And run away the whole entire match

@@adamlannerd1408 I main shang, and I learned sub so that I can morph into him and beat other subs :p Interestingly, ppl rage quit against my sub more than my shang and I find it hilarious 🤣

@@edd4131 so the projectile in question would be his clone punch thing. It's actually really good. Doesn't combo. Breaks projectiles. And is generally just really fun to troll with. I also think his frame data is okay. Not great by any means. What I think would really help Sub is a new string. Give him the Lei treatment. Maybe a really good advancing mid with no lows or overheads involved. Also, side note, let him shoot dive kicking clones the same way that noob can? I was thinking about the idea earlier. I want him to get a new string and a new special move. But goodness, let's not act like sub is atrocious when he has some of the best mix in the game. Better mix than shang thats for sure Plus his corner pressure game is actually probably the best in the game - apart from Cyrax or kitana. Unblockable, possibly unarmorable setups with ice clone and grabs. 3 way mix

Exactly al people do is cry sub was op in the beta they over use him so they nerf him , my thing is sub is not trash he is just decent

That's low-key pay to win

@@a1000island Eh, I understand what you are saying. But I don't believe it is as concerted or designed as that. NRS does not have an internal process of design where they have some idea of what the power level of the game is. For instance, when the game first when into beta, Sub had fast capture moves that connected with his target combos. They seemed to believe this was too powerful and gave him more startup frames on his ice ball and reduced the power of his floor freeze move (sorry, I can never remember the actual names they give moves). But now, as the power level has crept with DLC and patches, they release a Cyrax with exactly those properties; a fast capturing fireball (the grenades) and floor interact-ables that juggle. This doesn't mean that Cyrax is overpowered for the game, though that could be the case. But it does mean that what was taken from Sub is totally acceptable within their design philosophy. Another case comes with Kung Lao. He was designed to have less good buttons and legitimate mix because of his extremely powerful armor move. Later they realized that some armor moves were too strong and that they wanted to give mobility as a defensive tool instead (i.e. Takeda, Erma's teleport, Sektor's teleport and jetpacks, Homelander's air movement, Omni-Man's air movement and teleport, Noob's teleport etc.). So this patch they took away Lao's strong armor (as well as Tanya's) and replaced it with a mobility tool. However, Kung Lao still lacks buttons and strings equivalent to these other characters (though they did add air hat). It is just inconsistent and reactive development and design. If they had a better idea of what would be successful in the first place, there wouldn't be the need to catch up to better designed DLC.

@@michaelcarrig627 basically they don't know what they are doing, ridiculous for a company that has years of experience in this field

@@danielfodio3308 Ultimately, yes. With MKX they made a clear continuation of their design philosophy in MK9. They included elements of Injustice as well, but MKX used elements that they had been working on for years. With MK11 it seemed as if they wanted a more stable and easy to pick up game. But what they created was less fun to the fan base, so they ended up having to change the game drastically again. With MK1 they created characters that have a similar design philosophy to 11 (with the addition of air strings and more vertical gameplay), but with the addition of Kameos they added a new and untested system that disallowed them from relying on past lessons to stabilize the game. In my view, despite the inconsistency and reactive patching, they should build the next game with the Kameo system or something that supplements what are ultimately one button specials modified by directional inputs. They don’t need to be assists, they could be additional special moves. But rebuilding again could be disaster. As we have seen, every time they rebuild from the ground up they face the issues of many new fighting games. While I personally enjoy that Lui Kang, Johnny, Sub, and so on play a bit differently in every game; there is a point at which their redesign makes it impossible to balance games at a competitive level, create consistent long term and deep interest in mastery, and prevent online play from being homogenous. MK will always have a built in fan base, but they owe the same polish and consistency to those who have stayed with their game, despite many excellent alternatives.

@@michaelcarrig627 I understand your point of view but personally I no longer want to see the kameo system even in another form, that it is inspired by tekken, the characters certainly have their archetype but everyone is lucky for several reasons: logical balancing , enormous number of moves which allows for variety in the gameplay, the characters as I mentioned above have their own way of playing but they can all be aggressive defensively they all have a decent 50/50 game etc.

Bro just lost online to a sub when he made that comment

So is your spelling apparently!

Thank you!!!

Klone is annoying. So is Johnny's F3, Kenshi's Sento and a myriad of other things in this game. The problem is that people cry to NRS to nerf that which they find annoying, which they of course will conflate with being 'broken'. This is what got Sub nerfed in the first place. As to your other point, you're exactly right - Sub-Zero isn't terrible, but he isn't good either. His Klone might have started off as a defensive option, but given that it now combos from strings in the corner, as well as combos from air strings, the move can rightly be considered an offensive tool also. In any case, there's no reason for it to be -43, especially when Cyrax's bombs have a 29-frame recovery.

This is facts. Even KillaNinja stated that Sonic Fox has a lot of influence on the game and he absolutey should not. I get that he is the best but that doesn't mean he should run things. And yes Sub Zero is like this because he is the most hated chatacter in the game among casuals. They dont like being frozen...and thats it. Its something about not being able to play that game, even for five seconds, that pisses people off. It happened in Destiny 2 with stasis and Overwatch with Mei. Players do not like being taken out of the action. Im not advocating or justifying Sub-Zero's nerfs. I just wanted shed some light as to why and yes these are legit complaints from players. Im not making this up. They just hate being frozen. You wont believe the amount of Quitalities of gotten from the ice clone being used as an anti air. As soon as it freezes them...boom...they quit. People just cant stand it.

@@DrillSgtMason Totally. I myself dont like being frozen. And sub has clone which can even make you freeeze yourself. lol. A friend showed be sub sub and you can easily get frozen if you press at the wrong time. lol. Anway, either way, I prefer MK 11 subzero. I think if you dropped mk 11 sub zero in mk 1 he woulda been fantastic honestly. He was strong but never felt too dumb. Just make sure his slid isnt fking instant XD lol that thing was a teleport in mk 11

@@DrillSgtMason there is something more viable to fix this called, added powerful defensive mechanics, it's better than creating useless characters in my opinion

Great point

You can convert if you wave dash but people would rather cry then lab and get better

She can full screen teleport and punish bro it's messed up

Oh she does - I just want Sub's Ice Ball to be the exact same thing as her Foam.

@@mrAPchem yeah