The NEW Zerg vs Protoss Meta!

[@ro031]

Hot take: this is way more entertaining to watch than the typical high lvl "Serral vs Maru having the exact same match and whoever makes a mistake first loses."

[@theorochocz6735]

absolutely. Specially when the game balance is so bad that comp variety is basically zero and when both races are played perfectly one almost always wins.

[@yarikyaryi]

Dude, there will always be some meta no matter how good is balance. There is no equality, some strat, unit etc will always be better than other no matter how you balance them. And when both opponents play perfectly it's obvious that they will play till some one makes mistake otherwise all matches would end up being draw. ​@@theorochocz6735

[@Mglunafh]

the exact same match you are talking about... is it "ZvT" and not for example "PvP"? If so then surely they seem too stuck with their main races, otherwise, the last 2 series i've seen between Serral and Maru in 2024, namely IEM Katowice in February and ESL SC2 Masters Spring, are nothing but the same. Just to be clear, IEM Katowice 2024 *Serral* vs *Maru* *G1 Hecate:* Serral performs early roach aggression, gets huge economical advantage simultaneously throwing back Maru at the stone age, eats 3/4 of the maps, proceeds to win *G2 Radhuset Station:* Absolutely nail-biting series with all the stages, infuriating infestors, ultra-low economy in the super-late game, every unit from the zerg side except maybe swarmhost *G3 Hard Lead:* Serral hits with ravager bust, Maru sees the first roach at 4:55, kinda holds the push BUT decides to save his engibays with +1/+1, gets deleted *G4 Alcyone:* Maru techs into cyclone-hellion, finishes blue flame at 7:50, Serral at 9:13 sends lings and a drone to chew a hole in mineral wall on Maru's third. Then -- just for the record, ofc there is an actual game with the pushes and counter-attacks -- Maru receives the following eco damage: 10:16 *16 scvs* blown up the banlings on the 3rd, 12:02 *15 scvs* eaten by the lings on the 4th, 13:02 another *13 scvs* eaten by the lings on the 4th, 15:05 the planetary on the 5th with the *15 scvs* is blown up, 16:00 another *20 scvs* chewed up by the zerglings on the 3rd and the 4th. In summary, i'd assess that's a lot of damage that could be potentially prevented by like 2 hellbats with the _infernal pre-igniters._ 16:02 Maru thinks _'welp you cant earn all the money, 70k aint too bad i guess'_ and taps out.

[@ingrudmessenger1193]

I will say yes, but i still want to see Serral play this strategy, or maybe Dark or Rogue.

[@user-nh2bf4to7g]

@@theorochocz6735 It's really not, though; balance at the highest levels seems to be incredibly player-dependent, rather than race-dependent. Serral, for example, can beat literally everyone except Clem; it's so lopsided that it's rare for any other player to even take a map off of Serral, let alone a series. Clem, in contrast, can reliably beat Serral, but loses to a lot of other players, and like Raynor dislikes mirror matches so much that he's now considering off-racing just to avoid it. Balance and the meta at the highest levels is in a very, very weird place right now.

[@andrewpan5014]

I find it really interesting how Elazer violates the conventional zerg principles but by doing so opens up new paths for strategies which are much more unorthodox

[@maxsta4088]

In high diamond every zergs skipps roaches and just rushes hydras

[@HitoryDensetsu]

No creeps, no Queens, mass worker to mass hydra) - Platinum league strat)

[@Pkmnrulz899]

Exactly. But casters get impressed because it is executed by professionals.

[@michaelramage4697]

This was my strategy over 10 years ago, I'm 40 and have played SC since day 1 😂

[@Pkmnrulz899]

@ I am 32 and have played since day 1 too 😂

[@ledrash6079]

I am 46, and still doing this build in diamond league since many many years back :D But, the nydus is good though! Only used that in ZvZ to hit at two places at once with my 1-1 roaches :D

[@Ostrigoth]

Such a nice video! It's really refreshing to see the three queen builds and all of their possibilities

[@lemon14141]

You ever wonder if overlords propel themselves with farts?

[@kbasusta]

Where does all the vespebe gas go 😂

[@Jcarroz]

I just assumed that’s how it worked

[@Probc-or9yu]

Or what if they can be turned into a flying bomb

[@claygerard-ys1hi]

They do, ask you're mother

[@tango4785]

Helium gas and telekinesis

[@b2spirit86]

This new build is gonna struggle hard against early oracle push or adept push since there are way fewer queens than regular builds

[@guibettio578]

Are Brenda´s days of glory coming to an end??? I liked this strategy: skip the early game, invest less in defense, and hammer down in the middle game. As we´ve seen, the best late-game strategy for Zerg is no late game at all. I hope Serral watches these games as well!

These new(?) build orders are so refreshing to watch!

[@justinspriggs2979]

Its nice seeing these other games. It does get tiring seeing the same pros play the same strats over and over

[@zairaner1489]

"It would even have a little bit better before this patch" Uh are you sure about this with shield battery overcharge? To me it feels like this entire build is based around the lack of that.

[@zzzergling1079]

tbh 3-4 queens is weird but somehow feels natural decision. I mean queen is a bit more expensive, but hatchery got discount. So in result queen+hatchery bundle still have the same cost, and you kinda can say that first 2-3 queens costs the same.

[@Jruee]

Mid diamond Zerg main. Not enough time or energy to care about learning strict build orders or any of that jazz, I just do what I feel is right. Been playing since SC1 literally came out. When I ladder I get SO MUCH HATE when I do some dumb shit that isn't the meta. If I don't even know what my plan is, how are you going to know lol.

[@redhyina5260]

Just pretend that you're following Dark's footsteps lol

[@zegreatpumpkinani9161]

Off Meta bull****** should be commended, literally the whole point of a strategy game is coming up with your own strategies. It baffles me people just look up the best build orders and refuse to play anything else, thats fine if you're just learning the game but doing that over and over just to win MMR?

[@hivetech4903]

@@zegreatpumpkinani9161 For you it might be coming up with your own strategies, other people might want to make it to Masters. Not sure why you would think that's baffling but there's nothing wrong with either play-style.

[@justinefryanto6031]

@@zegreatpumpkinani9161it’s a competitive game what do you expect. The game itself encourages individual skill and optimal strategies, of course people that tryhards are gonna use the exact same strategies over and over again because it’s just simply the best way to win. Tho it is kinda boring if the strategies aren’t changing much

[@lxTxl]

Feels so much better to watch. So dynamic. Really like the hydras.

[@Weste88]

21:29 three fiddy... damn you loch ness monster, tried to trick us again!

[@someskills785]

I think the main weakness with this strategy is that the zerg is leaving themselves open to early game rushes by making no queens and having limited vision without creep spread

[@aarongazzaniga1929]

Ah, reference to the infamous, "Is it IMBA, or do I suck?" With regards to Terran mech.

[@growlithe5173]

The further base is quite a layered strategy! He takes the expansions so early with full saturation so that the third base is a decoy for the enemy to destroy. He’s not entirely looking to hold that position but to keep the main and hydra and spire safe from enemy rushes. Then he commits an all in himself destroying them before they have a chance to destroy his. It’s a base race at a winning angle with a winning economy and he can defend with the rest of his economy while Protoss struggles without recall.

[@acqua_gaming]

I would love to see this become META. Calling this strat under his name. Would be very legendary "Elazer Opening" or some sort.

[@Mikivericks]

Thanks for the video, Lowko. Appreciate the HSC videos. Really good quality stuff here. ❤

[@Natasnoctem01]

No two minutes into the game and directly a flame against Harstem... love it xD

[@Laiquelleion]

I just wanted to send some appreciation for the content you bring us. Cought a fever and am mostly trying to survive. But this is fun to watch 😊

[@JG-ti7id]

dude, that last game ending was NOICE :D glhf fellow zer

[@cowmath77]

I’ve been bringing back ling, bane, muta with double spire upgrades and have been having a blast destroying non-zergs APM. 3 bases, full gas, then transition into ultra with the 4th and 5th base.

[@michaelbart7014]

Man that defense by elazer in the 2nd game against Jumy was amazing. I think if Jumy had been slightly more conservative with his voidray and oracles he would have been in a better position to deal with Elazer but, considering that much of a committed push shouldnt have been easy for Elazer to deal with its forgivable lol.

[@boliveto]

2 great things: harstem being beaten by the comp he laughed at lowko for having, and lowko seeing how the nerf he most whine about made the game better ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@Captainkebbles1392]

Which nerf

[@arvinjancruz5175]

great games! great series!

[@resuu455]

I really like this early midgame approach. I wonder if this also works against early aggression in the highest level of TvZ, PvZ because your defense in the early game is different.

[@SalvaBarbus]

This was a joy to watch!

[@theanti-hypemonitor9079]

mh makes sense this is coming from him. he was always a midgame focused, big t2 army kinda player

[@terraerin4035]

this was a pleasure to watch

[@andrunouchi]

1 queen per base is how I've been playing this whole time (D1)

[@yeeyang7740]

If Corrupters could attack downwards, even for just 5 damage per second, it would be pretty devastating.

[@ninjaman0003]

it's kind of funny to watch zerg change over the years from economy heavy swarm style to macro swarm style, and now elazer is bringing back economy swarm style

[@AlRachim]

Finally! new video from Lowko 🎉🎉

[@tommyk1417]

yeah, our german internet may be slow, but it is the most expensive in the world! :D I love how SC still finds new meta!

[@ObliviousNaga]

This is almost like watching Uthermal and his goofy antics but refined

[@dredhounds6832]

0:53 This being Harstem, the biggest sh*t talker I've seen in SC, get an intro like this is the comedic justice. glad to see a cast on the captain!

[@rodrigoc3345]

Jesus the hydra maneuvering before their speed upgrade is cringe to watch, they should have that speed as default, I mean the stalkers out walk them AND can blink

[@00x0xx]

Hydras have much higher DPS however.

[@zegreatpumpkinani9161]

​@@00x0xx and astronomically worse survivability

[@justinefryanto6031]

@@zegreatpumpkinani9161much cheaper tho

[@AaronNiemetz]

Lowko is so surprised that a Zerg is doing something new and different

[@ImUpsetThatYouStoleMyUsername]

yep seems about exactly my direction as well with both protoss and with zerg. def pushing tempest or single stargate builds vs zerg now and also going fast 3 base and faster tech with zerg... and of course yeah you cant just mass queen it adds up at least until mid to late game then who cares... but at that point better things to use pop for

[@jvario2788]

Yo, Zerg might not be winning as much at the highest level but damn, LET THEM COOK! First that that mass observer/changeling build, now this. I’m here for it. 🙌🏾

[@ryanfahey1281]

Strandbeest are Dutch Ultralisks, prove me wrong.

[@Nick-hi9gx]

It has always bothered me that the mama is an entire floating city able to hold thousands and thousands of protoss...but also can't hold any protoss. Imagine how cool a warp mama would be. Or mama prism. Even if it took an extra upgrade for like 150/100, or if it could load up a warp prism.

[@justinkasica721]

As a zerg only player I agree about the creep being over rated if it affects your macro or micro don't even think about it. When I over focus on spread and miss and inject or 2 it's not worth it

[@benduman5595]

My wife said that's good advice "make the beam thick"

[@daikatarokamegawa542]

Ok, how did Hamster open Voidray, and still manages to have a slow Overlord just casually wander into his tech and give the heads up on everything?

[@alexkuhn3266]

A new strat is always cool. Still sad that it's a fifth minute's push.

[@ledrash6079]

Imagine a strange idea like letting LAN be possible. :) So the lag issues would disappear 100% :D

[@marus3953]

Zerg: It's early game or nothing 😂

[@Falorik]

I also enjoy those games more. But the question is if this style is viable on the top end of the ladder

[@phongminh2588]

So, basically this is Meomaika with a spire

[@LaCroix05]

It's really nice to see General Hamster consistently losing in the early game, which could be avoided with batcharge. In the first game, Tempest could have been saved with batcharge, preventing such a heavy loss. Don't get me wrong, I really like a massive change in Protoss strategies (as usually only Terran have that kind of changes). However, I really don't like his attitude of always claiming that removing batcharge is net positive change for Protoss. Meanwhile, every other streamer is saying that Protoss early game will be at a massive risk because the compensation is not sufficient for the early game. I am only saying that as pro match viewer of point. Ladder point of view would need different approach.

[@blipboigilgamesh7865]

I don't know, first game had harstem lose specificly because Elazer had a fancy counterstrategy, he had a read of what harstem was gonna do and shut him down before he'd manage to do anything about it. A conventional zerg player would take much longer to go up the tech tree and could very well take some 10 more minutes to beat him

[@LaCroix05]

​@@blipboigilgamesh7865 Elazer scouted the very early Beacon, which is why he made corruptors so quickly. Other zerg pros will also scout like that, as the stargate opener is very common now. That's why Hamster made a voidray to kill any scouting overlord, but he failed. Protoss units are more expensive. Any failed plan is worse for protoss compared to zerg and terran. That's why batcharge is important, not mainly for simple defense, but as a backup plan in case something goes wrong. Encharge that Hamster always praise never have that capability.

[@jesusbarrera6916]

​@@LaCroix05brother, you literally just explained how the battery charge would be a "free mistake" card Hamster messed up and Elazar hard countered him

[@LaCroix05]

​@@jesusbarrera6916 You didn't play the game, did you? Terran and Zerg also have a 'free mistake card' in the early game, Terran with mass repair and Zerg with transfuse. Yet somehow, Protoss, with the most expensive units in the early game, isn't allowed to have that card? 1 mistake, and it's impossible to defense because everything is expensive.

[@KishorTwist]

Love heavy the nydus spam!

[@abramsantana]

Does loko cast any of his matches live?

[@shyshy1984]

i mean, you can get away with less creep spread... but saying it's overrated and only using 1-3 tumors at a time is wild to me. lol

[@abrafkalif]

Awesome games. I realy enjoyed the games, maybe even more, than the 'perfect' 0,1% games.

[@tobiaszurcher8066]

Trying to tell us that energy overcharge is weaker than the new ability but all toss dying to early pushes 😂

[@miza6]

It’s actually weird seeing hydras

[@Pkmnrulz899]

This is what we call, "Low Elo gameplay executed by professionals". Only 3 Queens, and super early Spire is something you see in lower brackets in ladder. I know because I am Platinum and execute such things.

[@billl.2441]

I think harstem is one of the more fun sc2 players. He may not be top tier winner, but his streams are entertaining

[@mattcat83]

If you want more strategy, reduce starting worker count to a random number between 8 to 10, same for both sides.

[@THeDoMeTB]

19:59 german internet didnt work? i doubt it (just kidding, i am happy i can write this comment now xD)

[@djudju8047]

I want to know the build now. Skytoss has been annoying me.

[@Donpovich]

skytoss easy to beat. which race r u and what rank do u usually play in? could possibly play with u n help u with that

[@hivetech4903]

Are you talking about the build in the video? If so you have the build then - just watch the Zerg's supply and production tab.

[@kagebunshinnn]

very cool

[@Raziel1984]

today i learned that protoss are laying eggs :D

[@Zdenko1991]

Started the video. Going to sleep. Pressed the like button. All you guys who do the same press the like button. He deserves it. I only played sc2 singleplayer, now i know all the metas in sc2😂. Ty lowko😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉

[@reeddragon5250]

3 Queen is the new meta Me who always play with 3 Queens bcause lack of braincell :O

[@enriquegarciacota3914]

Creep is great. But I can’t do it :D

[@paulzagieboylo7315]

Personally I think creep spread is both overrated and overpowered: it is legitimately very very good, but... not quite as critical as Scarlett made it look at IEM Pyeongchang, and I think the game as a whole would be better if the presence or absence of creep weren't such a huge swing for Zerg, so that they would have to be balanced to be moderately playable off creep.

[@supernova9088]

I guess he affords more apm by not spreading creep and injecting 8 queens.

[@chainsawfreak]

in PvT energy overcharge is very bad vs two base pushes from terran

[@SkagulTV]

You memed about it when last you did the campaign, but this is what Kerrigan said to Zagara, vision. And (James) Raynor aswell comended the zerg for being adaptable and this is what he ment! Again why Starcraft 2 is an awesome game, there is so much depth and possibilities!

[@Nick-hi9gx]

Energy overcharge is only good for people who are good with energy. And most of us are not good with spellcasters. Let's be real, oracles and HTs especially take a lot of skill to use effectively and not just go squish. Mine...go squish.

[@LordMarkan]

Hey Lowko, are you planning on casting more Stormgate any time soon? I really enjoyed watching the couple games you casted before?

[@frederik666]

1 step ahead pretty sure its 3 STEPS AHEAD

[@MonkeyDRen-f5y]

at 6 30 for a spider he not seen my zerg build (plat) that is slow for me XD

[@AaronNiemetz]

Actually forcing Zerg to come up with new strategies?? Did this patch save StarCraft?

[@Spartsou]

huh....interesting strats

[@thomasmartin2248]

you're lagging too? yeah nice

[@marcinluter1195]

u know ladder = 1 queen per hatch = 3 xd

[@Justakid1150]

New Zerg vs Deez Nutz

[@lanceholt1223]

33:29 that's no longer possible with spore dmg buffed from 15 to 20, b4 th patch you could get 4-8 drone kills now you'd be lucky to get 2-4. So thats incorrect lowko. And what timing is elzaer exploiting here the midgame where bat overcharge would help hold. I think toss needs both overcharge and energy overcharge reduce the energy requirements.

[@patrickmuller3248]

Amy G. Dala? I think I know her...

[@Raithen88]

"the german internet" - sad IT noises.

[@EeeKz]

Why are you not subscribed yet?

[@jamesbelcher896]

25 minerals is nothing It's not that much delay one drone a few seconds its ridiculous to act like 25 minerals is breaking the most powerful race or that oracles are suddenly game ending.

[@EatBuildRideRepair]

wOW, NICE ANOTHER YEAR WHERE PROTOSS HAS NO CHANCE TO WIN ANYTHING.

[@callslightning]

You mentioned that nothing changed for Zerg to be able to make these kinds of timing attacks more effective. But don't you think that removing battery overcharge for Protoss does make timing attacks against them more likely to succeed?

[@theorochocz6735]

Please bring more of those "not the highest level" starcraft 2. The clem, serral, olivera, maru, shin, maxpax games are just too repetitive and with this balance patch are straigh up boring.

[@RBRMV1]

Whatever happened to Spanishiwa

[@bluetoad12]

Yay Zerg games - DAY 3 OF NO ‘hello everyone my name is ‘ intro PLEASE IM LOSING HAIR

[@Moeron86]

😅😅😅its comical hearing lowko try to defend sc2 as a strategy game and not a twitch clicker 😅. If strategy takes a back seat to speed, it's not a strategy game 😅😅😅😅😅

[@sashasemennikov157]

It be looks like Protoss are a little bit greedy and rushing to the late game a little bit too fast Maybe playing slower and adding more defenses is the way to go (see Raynor Protoss game)

[@HankFuller333]

Lowko DOES NOT want toss to be even decent lmfao.

[@andrewr681]

Why are you telling us what Harstem is going for before we have even watched it, chill dude. Let us watch no spoilers. EDIT : Yeah 3 mins in I can't watch anymore, no point if your telling us the game play.

[@acqua_gaming]

He said it in the intro that he already watched this game and will be commenting on the highlights. Then there's Elazer vs Jumy, where he didn't watched the game, and doing commenting live.

[@jessearmstrong6583]

i hate mutas.

[@Caipi2070]

what? strategy in my starcraft games? get outa here!

[@JavierMartinez-oe3qk]

😶‍🌫

[@shanghigh20]

Honestly, I'm starting to get sick and tired of them. Nerfing the zerg , every f****** patch and making every other race better and better and better