The Oedipus Complex - Film & TV’s Freudian Obsession

[@shanayekh9345]

Would love to see a follow-up on "Daddy Issues" and how this concept is used to portray the behavior of women in modern media.

[@AxxLAfriku]

HOLY HOLY!!! I can proudly say that I have the two HOTTEST women on this planet as MY GIRLFRIENDS! I am the unprettiest KZbinr ever, but they love me for what's inside! Thanks for listening sha

[@Kerry.moynihan.intellectual]

Media execs are pimps for sex object Media Girls.

[@nawarb.4226]

tbh within the internet nowadays i see the term "daddy issues" used more often to refer to male characters, but irl it has traditionally been used as an attack against "sl**ty" women

[@shanayekh9345]

@@nawarb.4226 Yea I had in mind the use of it as a derogatory term against women. It's often used as a plot device to explain a woman's sexual liberation or exploration instead of giving her the agency to make her own decisions. I would love to hear more about where this concept started and how it's used in media...

[@whathell6t]

@@nawarb.4226 Daddy issues or professionally known as an Electra Complex.

[@lilil9752]

Has anyone noticed that a lot of times, a mother loving her son too much is a sign of unhealthy behaviour, but a father loving his daugther so much is applauded? Ex: Stranger things´s Joyce was labeled as too intense and even annoying by some fans , yet the parents on media like 24 and Taken , are mostly taken as role models

[@stephennootens916]

You have a point there while the father who is protective of his daughter is often played of as Dads being silly dads. While mothers are seen as having something wrong and will damage their son if they don't let their son go.

[@mewesquirrel6720]

I've seen the opposite 🤷

[@taliamason7986]

Cartman's Mom in South Park is a great example of it.

[@bayleaf7588]

Probably because dad's know how to back off once their daughter settles down with a good man. Whereas mother's who are in an emotionally attached to their sons are unable to back off.. they view their sons partners as competition, rather than an extension of her new family. If the son doesn't learn to assert boundaries, he ends up in a love triangle, torn between his mother and wife/girlfriend.

[@sg_1541]

@@bayleaf7588 so damn accurate

[@inescastellano7960]

This video was so good. I’d love you to do a video about how therapists and psychologist are perceived in tv and cinema.

[@samanthagupta]

I’m in school to become a therapist, so I would love this!

[@dayshawnalexander5654]

Good ldea

[@pixiebells]

Always seems to be "let's try some role play!!" like that's the only thing that exists in psychology or like you don't start by talking about what your problem is, that's not as entertaining, apparently. (The only exception that makes this a good bit is on 30 Rock, it's hysterical!)

[@jgfelix]

I also think therapists tend to be used as a way to explain characters' psyche to the audience (i.e. Rick and Morty's "Pickle Rick" ep). I think this treatment of therapists as just vehicles for exposition results in a tedious fleshing out of a character (and may even create impressions of therapists as people who have the answers to your life).

[@yourlittleinsomniac5369]

Cinema Therapy does one focusing on Good Will Hunting but they spend a little bit talking about movie therapists in general

[@witchplease9695]

Would like to see a Single Parent trope video and how they are portrayed in media, including the differences between how single fathers and mothers are perceived

[@millsgurl8358]

Agree. To me, it see single dads are praised more than single mom

[@Justaguythatcameby]

@@millsgurl8358 you do? I see people saying single dads cant do anything because dad are useless

[@Siures]

@@Justaguythatcameby But they are praised for trying. Like it is a heroic decision for them to be a single dad. As a man who, of course, CANNOT be able to care for a child. Single moms are often just normal moms without the „father child“ and a financial problem.

[@evilgladiator3671]

Good rec

[@paulogaspar8295]

@@millsgurl8358 ??? you must live in a different universe. Just research online about single moms and single dads, and see how many institutions are helping single moms compared to singles dads. No one cares about single dads, or think they are weirdos.

[@Moon_Moon91]

I really don’t see Voldemort as a father figure to Harry; in my opinion, he is some sort of evil twin, what Harry could become too if he made certain choices instead of others, or in dumbledore’s words, "what is easy" and not what is good. When Harry fights Voldemort, he asserts himself as ultimately good, and thus ultimately different from Voldemort by making different choices than those made by Tom riddle. It’s really more about how our choices define who we are. On a side note though, I agree that Harry has mommy/daddy issues which is understandable coming from an orphan (I mean, Ginny/Lily are somewhat similar and Harry however does not behave like his father, which could be seen as a way of "killing the father"). In the end, though Harry does have quite a number of father/mother figures (Sirius, Dumbledore, Molly Weasley, Hagrid, Lupin etc), I don’t think Voldemort has ever been one of them…

[@stareyedwitch]

I agree. They're misreading Harry and Voldemort's relationship, and overly relying on what Voldemort did to explain Harry's personality. Also, I don't think Harry not behaving like his father is a way of "killing the father", the way we grow up shapes our personalities, and Harry and James had vastly different childhoods.

[@Kurooganeko]

But Harry has SO many paternal figures.... Hagrid, Dumbledore, Lupin, Sirius, Arthur Weasley, Snape at some point. Like...

[@Kurooganeko]

@@souvik43209 I would not know... :/

[@witchplease9695]

@@souvik43209 She has a strained relationship with both her parents according to a biography I read about her once

[@matheussanthiago9685]

@@witchplease9695 honestly, I can't bring myself to blame the parents

[@larissasaraiva.8375]

But like it's said in the video, Voldemort was the one who "created" Harry. When he gave him the mark and the abilities, he changed the course of Harry's life forever.

[@Kurooganeko]

@@larissasaraiva.8375 But can that be considered paternal figure? Isnt that psycological process a result of how the one experiencing it feels about said paternal figure? I can see Voldemort having Harry as an undesired son, but for Harry he is just the killer of his parents. Even with the situation of leaving a part of him in Harry almost like a transmition of "DNA". But to me is more like having a man killing someones parents and for some reason leaving the weapon in the crime scene and then the child regenves their parents with the very same wepon. You know? I still can see in a very metaphorical way thisbrelation, but like what about the other paternal figures, how do they fot in this scenario of Edipo complex?

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

Can you do Mommas Boys and Daddys Girls next?Next? Also how weight gain and loss are presented in the media. With how Diane Nguyen's weight gain subverts how our culture perceives a woman's weight loss as self-improvement?

[@Username456-b4p]

I would love that video

[@couchpotatoe91]

It's hilarious how Oedipus who gauged out his eyes for what he did now gets used as name for men that have a thing for their mother. Also on an unrelated note, the shift towards individuality is a Western idea and doesn't apply to other parts of the world where family comes first and individuality is seen as egoism and debauchery like you see in so many billionaires they'll point you at. Jonathan Haidt, a renowned psychologist and bestselling author, has some interesting things to say about this if anyone's curious.

[@mewesquirrel6720]

It's just white people being white

[@bellamckinnon8655]

Regarding your first note, I find that so frustrating also. The poor guy didn’t know and then as soon as he did know, was absolutely mortified. Then he goes down in history as being a mother-lover. Sucks bro. If only people would take 3 minutes to read the Wikipedia article or something.

[@user-insight]

I am south east asian and I am seeing this individuality present in south-east asian gen z. The new gen is more homogenous than the previous ones regardless of country due to the accessibility of social media and the internet.

[@couchpotatoe91]

@@user-insight Well, as you hint at yourself, the internet is probably the main reason for that. It allows a mixture of culture and access to information about life styles and philosophies that has never been there before in the history of humanity. People around the world might be more homogeneous in the future than they were in the past, but there will always remain traditions, be that Asian, African, European or something else.

[@couchpotatoe91]

@CEO of Secularism You can make a good argument that it is, yes. Though it's a bit more complex than that. In the Islam e.g. interest charges are forbidden in general as far as I'm aware. When you look at how money lending and investing works, be it stocks or something else, you see how not being able to invest large sums would hinder a society into growing and developing as rapidly as those not stifled by religious rules. This to me seems intertwined with their family values, so it's hard to point to "one reason". Not to speak of the influence the West had on many of those states since the beginning of the twentieth century in terms of power. There are reasons why so many of the middle-Eastern countries hate "the West" and why Islamic extremist have an easy time making their message heard.

[@moonlily1]

I think people's relationship with their parents influences their adult relationships, but it has nothing to do with being sexually attracted to their parent. It's because our parents gave us our first model of romantic relationship dynamic, and because our relationship with our parents is our first and fundamental personal relationship. A straight woman might behave with an intimate male partner as her mother did with her father, that's her modeling behavior she learned from her mother, NOT an expression of subconscious sexual desire for her dad. Freud's observation of that dynamic misinterpreted it as being centered upon sexual feelings because Freud assumed that because he was obsessed with sex, everyone else is too. He was projecting.

[@ladyredl3210]

I agree with this, absolutely

[@arabela5092]

as a psychology major, i wholeheartedly agree

[@tam9856]

I remember the storyline in Shameless when Lip is begging outside Heline’s house, the older professor he was having a sexual relationship, and he damn near looked like a little boy. I think that highlighted Lip’s Mommy issues, having Monica, his mom, abandon him and his siblings. Then he’s drawn to this older, more mature woman who not only sleeps with him, but mentors him in a sort of maternal way.

[@aidanabekenova2356]

It seems like there is no way to raise a child completely without any issues. Our parents definitely lacked insights on how to do that. It’s like “i’ll try my best to not screw you up, but no guarantees”, then years of therapy come

[@ADavid42]

Growing up in a xenophobic Patriarchy will do that.

[@matheussanthiago9685]

there's always the option of not having kids can't fail if you don't try

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

This is why I chose not to have children.

[@WEYffles]

I read that most of Freud’s patients were middle-aged women, so he had to base his whole Oedipus theory on a conversation he had with a little boy’s father on the PHONE. He never even met the boy and only heard the story through the father’s account. The father was calling him mainly because he was concerned about his son, that was afraid of horses. I wish Hollywood would move on from this.

[@iliasberrada5021]

Are you sure about this anecdote ? And are you sure that Freud based his entire theory on one single observation, and that psychoanalysts that came after didn't look more into this ? This seems simplifying, maybe too simplifying. As to Hollywood, this trope keeps emerging in movies and shows, sometimes without the writers being aware of the oedipus complex, and audiences tend to engage with these kind of stories, while not being educated on this complex either. Don't you think that says something about its veracity and existence ? I personally think it does.

[@innocuoushappenstance6259]

@@iliasberrada5021 we have plenty of racist stereotypes that appear over and over in very successful films yet are patently not true so, no, I don't think thar box office success or audience enjoyment determines the veracity of a behavior theory

[@iliasberrada5021]

@@innocuoushappenstance6259 by true, I mean that they exist, not "true" in the sense that they're good or correct. Racial stereotypes surely do exist, that's why they're in movies and tv shows, most of the time written unconsciously by the writers. I think the same could be said of the oedipus complex. It's true, not in a moral sense (good/bad, commendable or not), but in an ontological sense (that it exists).

[@tyriaxepheles7996]

@@iliasberrada5021 I have a psychology degree and most of Freud's "theories" have been disproven by modern psychological science. The problem with Freud's psychology is that it wasn't science, it was philosophy. He would see a behavior, then make up some theory about why this behavior occured and use the existence of that behavior as evidence that his theory is correct. Of course, this isn't scientific at all. It's circular reasoning where the premise is the same as the conclusion. In worse scenarios, his (and other sexologists') "theories" caused severe damage to Western society that is still existent today and spreading to Eastern cultures through globalization. For example, his (and other sexologists') "theories" on "the homosexual neurosis" has led to widespread vehement homophobia which led to the societal dogmatization of extreme masculinity and femininity that we're just now slowly deconstructing. This essentially led to splitting human psychology into masculine and feminine realms. Emotion goes to women, rationality goes to men etc. which leads to actual neurosis on a widespread societal level because you can't be human without having both but society punishes one or the other if exhibited by the "wrong" gender. If you look at pre-Freudian military photos, you see soldiers laying piled together cuddling up on each other because pre-Freud the masculine ideal was fraternal love. This was subsumed due to the "homosexual neurosis theories" that gay men "are raping women and murdering and cutting little boys into pieces because of their suppressed sexual desire for their mothers." Modern psychologists know this is utter bullshit. Gay men don't rape women or their mothers and they certainly don't chop little boys into pieces. The patients that Freud and Stekel and whoever had diagnosed with homosexual neurosis were probably sociopaths who just happened to have sex with men once or twice. Their mental illness wasn't being gay. Their mental illness was something entirely different but due to Freud's and Stekel's "theories" society started to view gay people as psychopathic murderers and rapists, which in turn led to the dogmatization of femininity and masculinity, due to the fear of "becoming homosexual" if a man acts too feminine or a woman acts too masculine.

[@iliasberrada5021]

​@@tyriaxepheles7996 I agree with you that some of his theories were incorrect and harmful. But you're using at least 2 logical fallacies. First, an argument by authority, by saying "hear me out, I have a degree", which doesn't guarantee that what you say is true. Second, and most important, you're basically saying "Freud said some wrong and harmful things, therefore everything he ever did is wrong and harmful." It's better we talk about the one theory we're debating here (Oedipus Complex), without bringing in his entire body of work, however incorrect it may be. The Oedipus complex is a a studied phenomenon that keeps popping up time and time again, in media and in real life, but it does not fit the modern (american) psychological studies, where everything is about neurotransmitters, chemicals, material phenomena that can be studied under a microscope or an MRI. I don't take away one bit of the validity of this scientific approach, but with regards to human behavior and human unconscious, an MRI, CAT Scan, and a microscope, aren't very much helpful.

[@melenatorr]

I need to challenge the idea that the attacking birds represent an explosion of maternal ego trying to prevent sexual relations: after the discovery of the attack at the neighbor's farm, while Lydia is in bed, she and Melanie have an intimate conversation, where they touch base and begin to comprehend each other. At the end of this, Lydia repeats her concern about her daughter Cathy at school. Melanie offers to go pick Cathy up there, and Lydia consents, thanking her at the end. The bird attacks continue, though, even after this conciliatory conversation. If there is something metaphorical going on in "The Birds", I don't believe that maternal rage and jealousy is its cause.

[@red_calla_lily]

Fun fact: "Vader" is Dutch for father. The clue was there all the time.

[@MortMe0430]

I think Freud was reading way too much into it (to say the least). At so young an age long before puberty and even having any concept of sex, it might be partially about keeping a parent's attention, but the whole "wanting to marry said parent," when it actually occurs for a brief period, can likely be chalked up to thinking of marriage as strictly a domestic partnership, a partner in crime if you will. And a kid who loves and trusts said parent could see them as the first choice for that, given the parent's experience with the adult (non-explicit) world. Or I could be pulling out total bull-crap conjecture, who knows lol

[@brh.1892]

That actually explains a lot!

[@ajdegemma4409]

This seems right, children until introduced to sex, they don't even know what it is.. For example, abused children, God bless their little souls, they didn't knew what's happening to them, because they were introduced to it as game, play... Freud on another hand, seems like impotent coked up idiot who really wanted to shock back then conservative Viennesse people. Jung had much brighter ideas that we still use to this day...

[@MrLarrySunshine]

Well said! I completely agree 😊

[@20dabarr58]

Completely agree. Kids have no concept (or at least, should have no concept) of what sexual/romantic relationships usually entail. To them, marriage is just being around someone you enjoy the company of forever. As a result, they might declare they want to marry their friends, family, etc because again, marriage is just a good friendship to them, nothing more or less.

[@trinaq]

While it's understandable why a family friendly studio like Disney would turn down "Back to the Future" due to the risqué subplot of Lorraine having the hots for her future son, the executives would HAVE to have been kicking themselves once it became an unexpected hit for Universal!

[@stephennootens916]

The weird think about her is she seems to have some sort of Nightingale fetish given how turned on she is after taken care of him but later she also seems to get a thrill when George hits Biff.

[@taliamason7986]

Disney made a whole sleuth of terrible decisions throughout the 80's. There is a reason they always ranked last at the Box Office for most of that decade.

[@alienboy1322]

Fun fact: With the rise of sex comedies at the time, studios wanted Back to the future to be made as a raunchy sex comedy.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@taliamason7986 I thought the 2000s was Disney's low point

[@GenerationNextNextNext]

@@kittykittybangbang9367 Probably, but it wasn't because all of the movies were bad. Atlantis The Lost Empire is a hidden gem, along with Brother Bear, Lilo and Stitch, and The Emperor's New Groove. Pixar helped with The Incredibles and Finding Nemo as well. I wouldn't say the 2000s were their lowest point, just didn't do as well as they did in the 1990s.

[@georgeprchal3924]

Sterling Archer: You know when I was little I used to pretend you weren't my mother. Malory Archer: Me too.

[@knight.99]

One of those Freudian theories that makes you question Freud's sanity . I mean boy wants to possess his mother exclusively for his sexual pleasure and get rid of his father to enable him to do so, plus fear of castration from his father... What the hell !

[@kassykreutzer6972]

Agreed hes a very creepy dude

[@kiriki4558]

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

[@knight.99]

@@kassykreutzer6972yes, he's and I am not qualified enough to question his psychoanalytic theories and concepts but seriously... plus Don't get me started on the psychosexual stages of development.

[@knight.99]

@@kiriki4558 I think you're mentioning the structural model of personality that's Id, ego and superego... Right ?

[@kassykreutzer6972]

@@knight.99 I know right it's like umm are you sure your not projecting your feelings on everyone eles because not all of us think,the way you think

[@XanderShiller]

*EVERYONE* knows that *Freud invented the 1st "yo mama" joke* to make light of his addiction to *Oedipussy.* *He was just blowing phallic smoke.*

[@passionforMed4]

I get ur joke

[@XanderShiller]

@@passionforMed4 and you're a better person for that. 😎

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

Vader never actually tried to kill Luke though; if anything, he's determined to get Luke to kill him in order to keep him alive. But Luke refuses to play into everyone's expectations of him, and refuses to kill his father. His father then returns the favor, killing Palpatine (his father-figure / abuser) to save his son, breaking the cycle... until Kylo Ran comes along and kills his father and falls in love with Rey, who looks like his mother.

[@matheussanthiago9685]

I love How it Should Have Ended's version of Vader, that is just comically obsessed with being a father

[@Bizarro69]

Welp!

[@dohavename6775]

Vader is really such a Father? This question is coming from someone who has never seen even solid 10 minutes of any SW movie.

[@bakuhatsubutsu]

Even though I know it's all nonsense, I adore psychoanalytic theory. It's so creative and abstract.

[@Charliebeth]

It is NOT Princess Amidala, she is first Queen Padme Amidala and then Senator Padme Amidala. When we first meet Padme, she is an elected queen and then when her term is over she becomes a senator. It was Leia who was the princess.

[@Legendofzellybelly]

Exactly!

[@Charliebeth]

@@Legendofzellybelly it irritates me while listening to videos like this when they get things like this wrong. It invalidates whatever point the author makes because an error like this proves that they don't know the the story they are commenting on.

[@brianarbenz7206]

I only know the name Amidala from a Pizza Hut commercial.

[@lucypreece7581]

Freud was a funny fish.

[@Bizarro69]

hehe!

[@TheLeah2344]

We also have to talk about how some mothers have internalized misogyny and end up raising misogynistic terrible men who treat women like conquests. There are mothers who will even encourage this behavior by saying “ boys will be boys “ and all men go through that stage where they sleep around until they find “the one”. A lot of these mothers more in particular SINGLE MOTHERS also treat their sons like their husbands and will compete with their sons girlfriend. If they have a daughter or daughters, they treat their daughters like garbage while coddling their sons. They will even throw their daughters out the house once they turn 18 and will compete with their own daughters. I can say this from experience from dealing with an abusive single mother who coddled my brother but treated me bad.

[@victoriadriver3567]

Exactly. I am a trans person. I have always been close to my mother as a young child. but when I transitioned it seems I started to become distant from by mother. Today I have a great relationship with my father(never used to be a huge friends with my father). I love them both but it seems people hate ugly truths.. they are the first to put their finger on, saying it is misogynist and blah blah.. but everything has two sides of story and we have to bear that in mind.

[@konraddygudaj257]

“The sexual wishes in regard to the mother become more intense and the father is perceived as an obstacle to the; this gives rise to the Oedipus complex.” Sigmund Freud, The Ego and the Id (1923)

[@trinaq]

Love this quote. I find psychology fascinating, since it explains the reasons behind our behaviour, and why we act the way that we do.

[@lilil9752]

He could have used a more acurate name, since it doesn't really applies to the play

[@sammyvictors2603]

I know Freud is considered overrated and questionably outdated, but damn did he influence society and pop culture.

[@mrchiefbs]

Freud was an insane coke head that shouldn't be taken seriously in Psychology. He's not regarded in my field.

[@kimifw58]

Um, yeah. She said that.

[@TheWchurchill4pm]

I wonder how much real-life Oedipal Complexes are self-fulfilling prophecies. Maybe Freud didn’t discover an inherent human tendency, so much as create a cultural myth that became an indelible part of collective human consciousness.

[@lilyluu]

As a psyche student, let me just emphasise that this is a theory. This Oedipus theory is actually not empirically supported. Meaning that Freud does not have any research supporting that this is a fact. A lot of examples here, do not exemplify causal relationships, i.e. the oediplus complex was the cause of these unhealthy relationships. Although it is fun to speculate using psychology terms, the Oedipus complex is highly outdated and no longer has relevance in the science of psychology. So please take this video with a grain of salt.

[@XanderVJ]

America's obsession with Freud outweighs any empirical research.

[@driftingdruid]

*hypothesis theories have supporting evidence, hypotheses don't and are educated guesses

[@kevinbarnard355]

The video isn't promoting the Oedipal Complex. It's critiquing it's overuse and oversimplicity in media. The authors describe numerous films that are overly incestuous just to fit the Freudian narrative. Why should a viewer take this video with a grain of salt?

[@kevinbarnard355]

@@driftingdruid Freud had supporting evidence in observational data. He and contemporaries of his work believed that their analysis of patients confirmed the theory. Psychology has since distanced itself from the notion of Oedipal desires, as there is no evidence of universality. It only applied in Freud's thinking to opposite sex familial relationships. It hasn't even really been disproven, more so there is no empirical way to measure and verify the idea.

[@driftingdruid]

@@kevinbarnard355 exactly, theories need evidence from multiple people over time, not from one person alone, so there was no confirmation, just a fad of an idea

[@thisisdk7859]

I don't get why Back to the Future gets dragged into the Oedipus discussion. Was the scenario about him almost sleeping with her or him constantly avoiding her advances? He wasn't remotely attracted to her, if anything it's a reverse scenario. She was obliviously and subconsciously pursuing him

[@beccangavin]

What timing! I was just whining yesterday about how many creative old white men gave too much credence to Freud even when the psychology community today don't take his ideas as seriously. I was specifically whining about Freud being an influence on science fiction writers and how it impacts the female characters they create. I love science fiction but every once in a while when I'm reading, I get pulled out of the story by being reminded that I"m not the target audience.

[@innocuoushappenstance6259]

Yeah!! There's so much focus on the male perspective, with the mother figure taking little to no actual actions herself but is instead an othered object to be desired and fought over, and there's zero consideration of a potential 'daughter's' perspective. The young woman pov character here just doesn't exist. Very frustrating

[@innocuoushappenstance6259]

And that's not even mentioning non binary people's perspective as the offspring roles or as parents. Ugh I'm v frustrated w this framework as well

[@beccangavin]

@@innocuoushappenstance6259 Heinlein was the most egregious example I could think of. He had a female character go from being a doctor to being a mother figure for the main character, shaping the main character into someone more manly (by telling him to be less pretty so he doesn't attract gays) then she joined a free love sex cult led by the main character. So 1) the mother figure joined a sex cult. Ew. 2) He had her do a strip tease then was given the ability view herself from the perspective of the men watching her and she preferred looking at herself from the perspective of the men ogling her. He literally had his main female lead measure her own value through the male gaze, completely stripped of her achievements as a professional. He probably patted himself on the back for his progressivism while he was writing that, too. There are more, but Stranger in a Strange Land is just the most illustrative of the point.

[@ShawnRavenfire]

I think another reason why writers rely so much on parental influences and relationships is because it's an easy way to establish character motive. So-and-so acts like this because of being raised a certain way.

[@HunterC3512]

This is EXCELLENT. The connections between Oedipus to Psycho and Vader and Marty McFly are SUPERB.

[@despinasgarden.4100]

My man Eodipus doesn't deserve to have this conplex named after him, i didn't even knew Jocasta was his biological mother when he married her and when he found out he was so digusted that he exiled himself out of his kingdom. This complex should be Uranos complex.

[@martinenyx-filmstuff305]

Note: Freud always said that the Oedipus Complex applied to BOTH males and females, and when Jung came up with the term "Electra Complex" he disputed it by saying that his definition of the Oedipus Complex ALREADY took into consideration young girls' attraction to their father and animosity toward their mother.

[@20dabarr58]

He can say that but it doesn't make it true lmao, he's been criticized for overlooking women despite his obsession with hysteria

[@martinenyx-filmstuff305]

@@20dabarr58 Have you read his works?

[@XanderShiller]

Tony's 1st panic attack was triggered by the meat they were about to eat and that it came from his father cutting off the butchers pinky. Not bc "he witnessed his parents being sensual" but the context.

[@thatonepersonyouwontremember]

My siblings and I were having a competition as to who shared their birthday with the best celebrity, and when it got to me, I found out Freud and I shared the same birthday. I lost that competition immediately.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

Marty doesn't have an Oedipus complex because he has a girlfriend, Jennifer. Not to mention that his mom was the one who initiated the kiss, which was non consensual by the way, and he was shocked by the look on his face. He even tried to back away from her, but she kept getting closer to him when he didn't want her to both for time travel, family and already being a relationship reasons.

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@souvik43209 Yes, I know that. I've seen the movie trilogy multiple times. I'm saying they're making it sound like he has an Oedipus complex when he doesn't.

[@nathfairy]

Hm i don't think the video implies that marty has oedipus complex as much as it's saying that the narrative itself makes it a theme

[@pinkkrystalz7610]

@@nathfairy What?

[@RyoKasai25]

Marty is horrified at the notion, the poor guy doesn't deserve this, haha.

[@nathfairy]

@@pinkkrystalz7610 i mean, the narrative makes his mom "fall in love" with him so the oedipus theme appears even if it's subverted by him not corresponding and helping his dad to become someone he can look up to instead of "killing" him. Subverted tropes are still tropes, that's what i meant.

[@homedepot.]

I’m not saying my friend has an Oedipus complex but I’m not not saying he doesn’t. I’ve known him since 6th grade and I’m now a sophomore. He was really nice and we just became friends. Anyways one day he asked me to come over cuz he wanted to play cod and I said sure. I went over (mind you we were in SIXTH grade) and his mom was looking at me really weird and I thought something was wrong with me and I asked him and he was like “that’s how she is with all girls” and I kinda brushed it off and sat in the couch waiting for us to start playing. While I was sitting there his mom came over and started asking me very weird questions and asking what I was trying to do with her son and stuff (side note I am a LESBIAN and came out in 6th grade) and was just generally being weird. When we were playing I said that it was really weird that she would ask me questions like that and then he got really defensive and saying I shouldn’t disrespect his mom and that she does everything for him, and I can understand that but it was still really weird. When I got him I told my mom about everything she said and she was weirded out too. My mom ended up calling his mom and asked why she was asking an 11 year old questions like that but she kept saying that I was lying and that she didn’t have any problems with me. The next day at school he was pissed and tried to argue with me the whole day and I just ignored him and asked my mom to pick me up instead of me taking the bus so I could avoid him. I ignored him for about 2 weeks and he finally came to his senses and apologised to me. I said I accepted it and that I respected his kom and if he suggested otherwise I would mot continue our friendship. He’s still pretty weird if anybody brings up his mom though. I’m still kinda close to him because when I came out he was one of the few people who didn’t shun me.

[@directiontonarnia]

Omg I can't believe you'd do a video on one of my most favourite topics !! We are doing this in college, and it's so so so nuanced and this video is 🔥

[@sabrinagrant8003]

I think Freud was just as crazy as his patients. That’s why he recognize the behavior.

[@angelicaocon1461]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[@fortune_roses]

*B O U N D A R I E S* are poked & prodded through this theme. Unsettling! These dynamics exist in real life

[@XanderVJ]

0:40 Correction. Freud's theories are not "disputed". They have long been discredited altogether. Now Freud is only taught in psychology for historical knowledge of the field and, at best, as a stepping stone for other theories. But nobody takes it a serious science anymore. However, since America has an uncanny obsession with his ideas that you rarely find... well, anywhere else (and when you do, it's usually due to American influence), it has endure as pseudo-science.

[@esma.ga5]

So freud come up with the term subconscious is it also discredited?

[@sammyvictors2603]

For the story book I'm working on, it deals with the Heroine confronting both her Oedipal and Electra complexes, in the form of a villainous Mother-Son duo, who vaguely resemble her Hollywood glamorous but shallow and irresponsible birth parents (with a 15 year age gap between them, they even stared in the play of Oedipus Rex, as Oedipus and Jocasta).

[@leftpawedpolarbear]

There should be at least one clip of Žižek explaining pop culture in every subsequent video essay on The Take-not because it would always be helpful (though given the sheer amount of work he's produced there would probably be SOMETHING relevant for most topics), but just as like a personal treat. for me.

[@katherinemorelle7115]

Pyuuur ideeology!

[@aa-to6ws]

"You have daddy issues, you literally killed a father!" *"Yeah but it was not mine, dummy!"* -Jeff; Community.

[@sanjomaz]

I think the cartoon “avatar the last airbender” explores the Oedipal complex with Aang and Katara. Aang is an orphan child, yes, but immediately falls smitten for Katara, not paying any mind to how much she coddles him thru the show llike a babysitter/mom. And even tho Zuko and Katara are never officially together, they get portrayed as “lovers” in a theater play and it makes Aang jealous, upset, and worried that Katara might not see him past that son/little bro/friend role.

[@SuperLoves4]

but Katara babysits everyone, it's about how war shaped her growing not an oedipal complex

[@sanjomaz]

@@SuperLoves4 Katara didn't babysit Haru, Jet or Zuko (ppl she arguably had crushes on and saw as older, mature teens). In the bigger aspect, Aang didn't seem to grow out of that childish behavior by the end of the show. He would get angry, run away from things he didn't enjoy hearing, and she would always try and sooth his needs without understanding that he needed to learn to face the tough stuff regardless of her help.

[@SuperLoves4]

@@sanjomaz but she would babysit Sokka and Toph, she didn’t spend as much time with Haru and spent a long time thinking of Zuko as an enemy, Aang personality is set as avoidistic because he wants to be a child, not because he wants to be babied, it’s all about the effects of war on childhood and mommying is Katara’s 🤔

[@SuperLoves4]

@@sanjomaz (didn’t spend much time with Jet either) and Aang does learn by the end when he, alone, learns how to solve the thing that made him escape the monks (the war) in a way that doesn’t compromise his beliefs and childhood

[@sanjomaz]

@@SuperLoves4 She becomes a mom to Sokka bc of them losing their own mother, and Toph even tells Katara that she doesn't have to act like a mom, and yet she still does bc war did that to her. The Oedipal complex comes from Aang being "born" in the iceberg and imprinting on Katara, the first girl he sees when he's most desperate to find someone to love after feeling unloved/unsupported in the SATemple. And regarding the Finale... Aang resorting to non-violent means was a writing plot hole bc Aang was definitely willing to do some violent stuff to Ozai during the Invasion (when Ozai wouldn't have his bending), if it meant he could end the war. Conveniently, Aang never finds Ozai. Suddenly in the Finale, he gets conflicted about that bc the writers wanted Aang to remain an innocent child, and Katara continues to coddle him without having him face issues head-on.

[@waynelai5384]

This Take is really good, like the one my mom would give

[@pixiebells]

It's the subtlety for me 😂 brilliant! 😊

[@VeeLondon1449]

Succession is such a phenomenal show. “ very well, I accept your blackmail..” - Tom. If you haven’t seen the show yet, I highly recommend it x

[@janicemoriarty2578]

Waiting eagerly for season 3!!!

[@grapeshot]

Sigmund Freud cocaine fiend although it was legal back then. I believe a lot of his research has been debunked.

[@stephennootens916]

That doesn't stop it being in used to write stories. Think of Madonna or Whore complex it is used in more than few monster and slasher movies as well as noir mysteries.

[@mewesquirrel6720]

Thank God, can't stand that guy

[@grapeshot]

@@stephennootens916 Of course

[@matheussanthiago9685]

it's not that it has been debunked it's just plain unverifiable psychiatry moved away from his ideas, just as astronomy moved from astrology it just doesn't possess enough to science with

[@SlayerNinaFriki]

Billy Hargrove with his parents and Karen Wheeler. There was soooo much to unpack there. Well, Stranger Things parents need their own video, there was so much to unpack on so many levels...

[@hereforit2]

Casual mentioning of Zizek is always appreciated 👌

[@j.albuquerque9274]

I haven't watch the video yet but I recently finished S02 of "Bordwalk Empire", I really hope Jimmy and Gillian are mentioned.

[@kaitlnwhite6809]

I hope Evangelion is mentioned.

[@j.albuquerque9274]

@@kaitlnwhite6809 Seems more like the opposite: Gendo sees Shinji as his rival for his wife's affection.

[@indrinita]

Cue 22 is amazing, been binge watching her work!

[@starshinestudiosofficial]

What if you have issues with both parents?

[@Nat-ls1uo]

Yea, mommy and daddy issues are all over the place in the different types of media that are popular

[@XshopahollicsX]

thank u for talking about succession!!! It's the best show the world has seen in a while and no one is talking about it!!! I'm so happy u brought it up! please if u read this comment, WATCH THE SHOW!

[@Dashingdiva73]

I had several praise breaks during the watching of this video! By far the best one I have seen yet. English teachers should use this in classes. It was such a great explanation of the Oedipal complex that she should teach a class. She did a good job of writing this episode. Can you please link the movie of the gentleman describing all of the Oedipal ideas in Psycho and the Birds? I would really like to watch that video as well thank you again for this it's top-notch work.

[@chrissiem3958]

Ahhhhh, The Take..... always a pleasure 😊 **salutes**

[@bruja_cat]

The problem with Freud’s Oedipal complex is that in the original ancient myth, Oedipus doesn’t realize it’s his parents, so it’s part of the drama and Greek sense of fate & tragedy. Most of Freud is based misunderstanding Oedipus.

[@krisynthiagomez5883]

So glad you guys discussed the relationship between Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort as a father son dynamic because I feel like not a lot of people see that. Also if you think about it that Oedipal Complex in Back to the Future was actually fulfilled in the third movie when Marty goes back hundreds of years and meets his ancestors who look like him and his mother.

[@PureSparkles22]

I hate my dad. Always have, always will

[@CarnageTrooperx]

It’s been a while since y’all had a good video like this. Well done

[@SoniaSephia]

R/thestraightsokay? Sigmund Freud:. Boys want Mommy! Carl Jung:. Girls want Daddy! FBI: *Crashes Through Door*

[@lilliangraham9850]

some girls don't want daddies

[@esma.ga5]

@@lilliangraham9850 alot of girls refuse to think they used to want daddy

[@sassyblondewriter8239]

Finally! Someone else agrees with my hot take on the sopranos and ending toxic family cycles

[@classicat87]

This was *chef's kiss* spectacular! I can see that there was no space in this video to address my next point. There was already so much to unpack. It's worth noting that there are the 'mommy's issues' of the Oedipal trope are can be used to undermine our sympathy for a character or to make them 'mockable', and thus we see such tropes overlayed on minority groups. "Overbearing" mothers are a common prejudiced trope used against, Jews and People of Colour. Just more food for thought.

[@TIGER-xk4gk]

This is my favorite story thread in all of fiction

[@radztransdoggo]

So excited as always to watch this new take

[@IOANNA333]

Who else loved Bates Motel?✋🏻

[@ashleightompkins3200]

While I agree with most of this, I have to disagree with your use of Voldemort. He's more of a brother figure to Harry Potter while Snape is a fatherly figure

[@DGenerationX1311]

Bates Motel is the most frustrating show I have ever seen in regards to the fact that Norman and Norma did not seek/receive any mental help which is the point of the show I guess. The side plot of the town and it's weed history was just v uninteresting to me though.

[@helia_sunofsnek]

Well... the Voldemort/Harry thing doesn't work, because Harry has so many positive fatherly rolemodels in his life? Like Lupin, Sirius, Hagrid & foremost Arthur? Like the only fatherly betray we have would be Dumbledore, but Harry still thinks of him highly after all that abusive.

[@angelicaocon1461]

Psychology is unpredictable..when your mama give you too much love, it's not good..when it's not enough, it's not good.. so we can't win on this..

[@LeeLe412]

Another example is "It". Eddie Kaspbrak is in a controlling relationship with his mother and in the movie he still lives with her as an adult and in the books he marries a controlling woman who is just like her.

[@loiracitr]

If I remember it correctly, Eddie's wife also looks like his mum

[@Logitah]

Yup! I felt so bad for the poor kid!

[@a.s.2112]

I was surprised to not see Jax, Gemma and Clay mentioned in this video because whoo, that triangle was something else!

[@TheNopeDude]

I remember seeing that painting by Goya on a trip with my history class. Such a knockout! Apparently, it was painted, along with many other strange secret images, on the walls of his apartment.

[@hl.4615]

I love the inclusion of the D’Aulaires illustrations!

[@markmaurer6370]

I offer this tribute to the algorithm! The power be upon this really awesome essay!

[@adrianghandtchi1562]

I wonder for these parents that emotionally attach themselves to their children so obsessively, do they have a sexual attraction and (R*pe) their own? Because that’s what scares me the most for anyone’s safety that ultimate boundary that’s shattered way more than it being mixed? Maybe I’m confusing that with Jocasta.

[@nargeshemadi3278]

As a middle eastern girl who doesn't have access to proper therapy and got educated on mental health through movies and TV shows i loved this video

[@JulietteKernDiamond]

Nu mindframe *

[@MontSe1001]

I feel like people always miss that the oedipus complex is symbolical and subconscious, not literal. Yes, you never thought about your mother sexually or wanted to kill your father, but that's because its not something that happens consciously, at least in theory. That, and that when Freud talks about sexual drive he doesn't just mean PiV intercourse but a general "drive to feel good". As babies that's feeding, as young kids is bowel movements (in theory!) and its not after puberty that it becomes genital and transforms into adult sexuality.

[@NITE_SHIFTING]

That was an awesome...'Take'.

[@sirichandanaakarapu378]

oh Freud.... the one psychologist that my profs always feel uncomfortable discussing abt. and this is coming from profs who are quite open when it comes to the topic of sex

[@darkwarriormaster9644]

I really do not consider Voldemort to be a pseudo-father figure to Harry in anyway. The thought literally never crossed my mind and I have no doubt that a lot of people would agree with me. Although, it is worth mentioning that the last book revealed that both of them are descended from two of the three Peverell brothers.

[@IvyWolk]

you guys quoting zizek in a video about freudian psychology in film is making me h*rny... my red scare slay

[@HaughtyHedonist]

Beautiful Thought-Provoking Video

[@thedolhaze]

Psychoanalyst here: in Freudian tradition, both boys and girls go through Oedipus complex, with the girls having to go through an extra step in their OC.

[@esma.ga5]

I was telling my girlfriend about the theory in a very simple way and she said to stop explaning because "I am afraid of hearing these things". It's the second time she does that. So why?

[@thedolhaze]

@@esma.ga5 I would need to know you girlfriend in order to be able to answer that.

[@esma.ga5]

@@thedolhaze thank you marina. I really appreciate it. It was strange for me how she reacts to the idea. She told me that she used to be obsessed with thesr thoughts when she was young.

[@messinalyle4030]

It would be quite hard to do a Freudian reading of a story that was compatible with feminism. Especially if, to paraphrase this video, a Freudian interpretation of family dynamics that were influenced by even a *tiny* bit of misogyny from the father, was that "the son's hatred of his father was influenced by his *misunderstanding* of his parent's relationship due to him being too young to know at the time that that was what (heterosexual) sexual relationships were like." That idea only pathologizes the gut-level intuition that children have regarding justice, and comes from the very same patriarchy that flourishes in part due to men being taught from a young age that women being treated unjustly or in ways that don't honor their autonomy in romantic relationships and otherwise is "right." Not to mention that the stereotype that gay men are close to their mothers alludes to the Oedipus complex even if the mother-son relationship is close in a healthy way, and by extension perpetuates the stigma against homosexuality.

[@isa-morena]

I've always thought that the Oedipus complex was yet another patriarchal myth meant to stunt men's relationships with women starting with their own mothers.

[@paulinaenck5797]

Speaking of Xavier Dolan’s work, J’ai Tué Ma Mère has two really complicated relationships between single moms and their gay sons. Hubert has a distant and tense dynamic with his mom but idolizes his absent father. Antonin and his mother are very close, having a playful and very open relationship, with Hubert and Antonin even having sex both in her house and at her office, and she Half nakedly introduced him to a man with whom she was having sex

[@Hallows4]

What about Seymour Skinner and his mother? Definitely some Oedipal motifs there, and as perverse as it sounds, I think the closest thing to a father-figure in his life is superintendent Chalmers.

[@alexanderguerrero347]

But that’s not his mother. It’s just some woman

[@valc6366]

can you look at more foreign films and explore their themes and difference to American/British media and entertainment

[@Legendofzellybelly]

She was not Princess Amidala, she was Queen Amidala. No one ever called her a Princess, weird reference choice

[@jamesmarshall6619]

I never wanted to fight my dad, I can fight but that dude is crazy and also a great fighter so wasn't interested in getting my butt kicked.

[@sailormonet19941]

I kept waiting for a Tyrion/Tywin Lannister take, too. Although Tyrion didn’t have a relationship with his mother, in fact his birth killed her, he does go looking for that sort of unconditional and, in the case of Shay, almost motherly love in all the wrong places i.e. every whore house in Westeros he can get into. In the end Tyrion kills his father after finding out he slept with his lover and that sort of puts a kind of spin on the Oedipus complex explained here. In my opinion anyway

[@saramecoolsuper]

Was thinking about this just now... Your videos always come out at the right moment, am I being watched?

[@maximussaktish]

This is the first time i heard about this complex, kind of disgusted

[@xbjrrtc]

Love the channel, but the audio quality on this video seems off. Like the voice-over mic is blaring or something. Great video, though!

[@hectorrivera4053]

Harry Potter and his fader lord Voldemort ? Wtf, it’s his mortal enemy. A father figure could be professor Dumbledor or Sirius, not voldy

[@bellaknightR597]

@Holly Wouldint yeah a fragment of his soul inside Harry that created an accidental Horcrux that helped him stay alive, not his blood, if anything he's closer to being a parasite that clings to a host for survival than a father figure

[@bellaknightR597]

@Holly Wouldint who hurt you?

[@bellaknightR597]

@Holly Wouldint ok wow

[@Ellerbeetimes100]

Using the most important book in my life, D'Aulaire's Book of Greek Myths. :-D

[@emen_98]

Also, the titanomachy is also fitting with this theme because Zeus and if I’m correct, hades who helped him make the final blow to take down their dad. Both later married women who were said to be like their mother rhea

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Though the psycho film franchise is definitely a values dissonant continuity snarl in itself, there is something that links all of the instalments together; Norman Bates’ mum was screwed over by many men, mostly after her husband died. Thus, her ghost became the villain in Norman’s callously sociopathic brain.

[@anu.]

I am so so so jealous of Marty now.

[@monjishbhattacharyya3795]

Who’s gonna bring up…the one site where these stories really flourish. If you know, you know.