The One Thing Halo Should NEVER Do Again

[@AscendHyperion]

Only upon strong foundation can a large house be built! Let me know what you think about this video on Discord! discord.com/invite/2fDjeYs

[@HazopGaze]

String foundation, eh? =p

[@durpydilo2982]

@@HazopGaze I think he means that there’s not many so it’s a weak foundation of a discord community. If not then idk

[@mikethemess2627]

I never that load out shouldn't be in halo. (I didn't play halo multi-player that much.) For you question, no.

[@robertlaidlaw4592]

i'd argue that and also killstreaks, I actually think killstreaks are the most damaging feature in cod but that's sth else, in halo they provide an unnessasery advantage and mean you don't even have to try to control the map to get a reward completely disturbing the momentum of the gameplay loop.

[@geminitrash1]

I don't really agree with this point against loadouts completely just because I like loadouts better in things like Firefight. Halo 5's firefight equivalent isn't really as fun because you have to work up to using basic weapons like the DMR. If your saying for PvP it's bad, then I would suggest disabling loadouts for ranked playlists only. Then just let everyone else have fun however they want to

[@HaloCanon]

Custom classes are definitely not a great thing for the core game. I'd be fine to have them there as a Custom Games option, though (and same with just about any feature that's been remotely controversial over the years).

[@Chrisspru]

preset loadouts should be an option for custom games, offshoot gametypes and maybe campaign mission. having custom loadouts for custom gametypes could be possible, but is a lot of effort for a purely custom games feature

[@sentientmilkshake6059]

you are an evil man as you support micro transactions in halo infinite

[@eyedine]

@SneakySivaGamer123 how did custom classes ruin COD lmao? COD isn't an arena shooter, Halo is. I played cod 2 multiplayer a lot back in the day, cod4 and up is absolutely superior to its old style.

[@LavenderSystem69]

Well... miss me with that req pack bullshit, but otherwise I can agree. A lot of the things that were added which may or may not have truly belonged definitely did some cool shit to expand upon what you could do with customs

[@ThatGuyKazz]

@@sentientmilkshake6059 Micro Transactions are fine as long as 1. they are purely cosmetics and 2. they are not based on random chance loot crate style mechanics and you know EXACTLY what cosmetic items you're getting for that transaction.

[@nikitasavtchenko4418]

I definitely think that loadouts should be available as a custom game option. They opened up opportunities for custom game modes.

[@yeehawj248]

I agree with this.

[@ammod4827]

infected that could see through walls with promethean vision. that was so fun

[@clydemarshall8095]

I don’t care if they’re in custom games as long as they’re kept out of matchmaking

[@theminazhericast7663]

Agreed thank you for being open minded! May the Cosmic Spirits Bless your gaming career.Nikita I officially think you are one of the coolest halo players! I could not have said it better. :)

[@NutsorSomethingBerserk]

Agreed. Many things such as loadouts or even toggle sprint and such should be custom game options. In standard MP they should enforce the Golden triangle rule but in custom games, let the players run wild with whatever options and setups they wanna do.

[@cyanimation1605]

Being able to choose between a BR and DMR in swat, or whether to start with a sword or hammer in Grifball is pleasant.

[@Arbyfig]

Well to have both weapon and just be able to swap among them would solve the problem, like how in halo 3 you could control what everyone spawns with

[@starboss5515]

@@Arbyfig problem is, both SWAT and grifball require fast thinking, I'd prefer to spawn with what I want so I dont have to spend the half second or so switching.

[@Brock_CO]

BR all day But yes having the freedom of choice is nice

[@codystegemueller9428]

Obama

[@acozybunny]

@@starboss5515 Fast thinking in swat and grifball!? They're amongst the easiest game modes out there, outside of infection. It was a running meme in the original H3 that a level 50 in swat, was like a 40 in any of the other playlists. It's not respectable to be good at swat. All you need is good ping and the ability to flick your shots.

[@shadowmilk3742]

"The one thing halo should never do again" Loadouts Microtransactions:am I a joke to you

[@predalien902100]

You’re comment is so much more truthful, and deserves more likes.

[@lonewolfex]

I feel like that one is something we collectively pushed from memory.

[@Tyijl]

Yeah, micro transactions are making me worried about halo infinite. Especially since the multiplayer is free to play

[@predalien902100]

@@Tyijl But multiplayer has always been free to play in every Halo game. Or are you referring to that Infinite’s multiplayer won’t require Xbox Live?

[@tostie3110]

@@predalien902100 Halo infinite's multiplayer doesn't require you to buy the game, but the campaign does. You still need Xbox Live

[@TheBlackBrickStudios]

Let me put it this way; in all my years of playing Halo 4, I think I’ve picked up map weapons a handful of times. It gave me the ability to spawn with my favorite weapons. I’ve never been a power weapons guy, I suck with snipers, shotguns, and close range weapons, and ever since Halo 2, the Battle Rifle/DMR has been my go-to weapons. And the fact that you are allowed to spawn with not only my favorite weapon, but favorite sidearm in either scattershot or plasma pistol, but ALSO my favorite grenade, armor ability, and a special bonus at the beginning of combat, I not only never ran out of ammo in my guns, but I never had any incentive to pick up anything on the maps besides grenades. It broke the whole point of map weapons for the vast majority of players because not only were the loadouts broken, but every map in Halo 4 was almost expressly designed with the DMR/light rifle in mind.

[@gino14]

I personally had something of the opposite experience going from Halo Reach to 4; fights in H4 to me felt like they had variety in Tier 1 because you never could be sure what the other person chose as starting loadout items, but in Reach, *every* engagement devolved into a DMR showdown and it was infuriating. On the other hand, it seemed like Halo 4 players spent so much time dancing around Tier 1 because of the Loadout System's robustness that nobody actually felt the need to hunt for vehicles or weapons.

[@chef4025]

You spent years playing halo 4? That's cringe

[@lecone2220]

How i see it Custom classes should stay out of matchmaking. But stay in custom games

[@alqaadi9858]

Halo was never a competitive game to me. So as long it’s fun it’s perfect. Unlike apex legends; if they make a single imbalance, I’m always the first to scream.

[@acozybunny]

@@alqaadi9858 It may not have been competitive to you, but before they ruined it with loadouts and spartan abilities, it was single handedly carrying the mlg competitive scene on it's back for like 6+ years straight. As soon as Halo died, mlg died as well and now it's just a meme. All arena style shooters are competitive by design.

[@S1erra107]

The beauty of Ascend Hyperion? A lot of the time, I kinda already knew these principles. But you articulate them in a way that’s in more depth and fundamental than I could, and I appreciate that

[@ClassyEnding]

facts. I love how analytical he is about providing his arguments. Great creator indeed

[@sanemountain2129]

Yeet

[@cyanimation1605]

except the "ODST is just a $60 microtransaction for Recon" video. Nope. But hey. I'm still subscribed

[@IDoABitOfTrollin]

The only time ill accept loadouts is Halo Reach style. Where its balanced to the game mode (invasion being an example) and it evolves over the gameplay. Thats it. Reach style or nothing

[@just_ugu]

I can't imagine someone saying "Man, I wish this Halo game had loadouts"

[@Sebastian-zt4dq]

Tbh if it was only for 1 gamemode. Then i wouldn't mind

[@juantsu2000]

It can be fun for a PvE game mode like Firefight. In PvP yes, it should never, ever return

[@Tesseradical17]

Man, I wish this Halo game had Reach-style loadouts. They were a lot of fun in Invasion and Infection.

[@juantsu2000]

@@Tesseradical17 Nah, I don't like Reach loadouts either. MAYBE for some game modes it could work but fair starts is mandatory in core modes like Slayer, CTF, etc.

[@Sebastian-zt4dq]

@@juantsu2000 ye they should only be for one gamemode that's it

[@Thomas-SQM]

Id argue that removing Loadouts entirely was a severe detriment to custom games, as loadouts were extremely useful for both general customs and most especially Machinima in Halo Reach and Halo 4. Custom loadouts would have also benefitted Warzone so you can simply create a class with your specific REQ's and perks without having to manually go through the REQ screen every single time you respawn. Everything else in the video I agree with though.

[@ArtHollow]

I agree, custom loadouts did a lot of bad things but also had many really helpful uses. I personally think that custom loadouts should come back purely as an option to be utilised by the community in Custom Games. Honestly, many of the ideas that didn't work for Halo's core gameplay would be fine as customisable options for us to use of we want to. I a someone who does not enjoy what Armour Abilities do to Halo's gameplay, but I would also be very happy to see them come back as a tool to use for Custom Games.

[@tostie3110]

It might be an unpopular opinion, but I loved the req system with a gradual buildup in weapon power and vehicle power as the map expands. As well as the many weapon variants added (at least the ones from the basegame, though). The menu's were easy enough to navigate, and everything else that could actually give you an edge came at a big cost.

[@KingCookie_III]

Yes

[@LR_Bushido]

Halo 3 is a big enough example of high custom game potential without needing loadouts

[@tulio.guitar]

Custom loadouts, armor lock and bloom are the devil's triangle for halo lol

[@rookie4582]

Bloom still in Halo games.

[@blood3215]

@@rookie4582 sadly

[@rookie4582]

@@blood3215 ridiculous bullet magnetism is much worse than bloom.

[@jackcolson4745]

@@rookie4582 Bloom is random

[@chadwicktaylors7543]

​Bloom has been in every halo game

[@braveguide]

I'm split, I think the ability to choose is cool because it makes you a unique Spartan, but also i like it to be equal. I find that more fun because its just skill on how you maneuver to the weapon spawns.

[@cosmiclikesminecraft]

I honeslty just don’t like automatic weapons and simp for the H4 and H5 Promethean weapons is being able to have those was fantastic

[@solitare4602]

Nah man, H4 Loadouts were great for me. I'll admit that I never played War Games, or whatever the PvP was called. I only played Spartan Ops over and over. The ability to spawn in with usable weapons is key to Spartan Ops being fun. In campaign you get your used weapons and ammo back when you die, but Spartan Ops doesn't because it doesn't rewind time. Without Loadouts you would be stuck banging your head against a wall with an assault rifle on Legendary difficulty after you used up all the useful map weapons. Vehicles giving you trouble? Spawn with a plasma pistol. Stuck in a long range battle? Spawn with a DMR and BR/LR at once. Basically, Loadouts are great in PvE.

[@Keatosis_Quohotos]

holy crap I forgot how tight the halo 3 console fov was

[@arthureaterofworlds5176]

It gives me pain

[@rickygforce4217]

Halo Reach on console with the film grain and motion blur was pretty painful too, eugh

[@emilylefebvre5132]

It was tight even at the time, granted it wasn't as bad on the 360, since it was at a much lower internal res

[@xUseTheForks]

You can change the fov now

[@picassoflex1832]

Even with limited fov, it wasn’t and isn’t a problem because of the off center reticle. Idk why games don’t do that nowadays or at least have the option to

[@SneezeGravy]

For me it's like this: On halo games prior to 4, I tend to feel like I'm stuck with the BR / AR and the people who have been no life gooning Halo 3 since 2007 have the spawns and spawn timers of each power weapon memorized and hold them throughout the entire game. Whereas Halo 4 feels more balanced because, through ordnance drops, you're rewarded power weapons based on performance

[@nomaxx1176]

In my view, it wasn't that custom loadouts allowed for certain weapons to simply overpower the triangle, it was the combinations that were now possible. Dexterity, the BR, and the plasma pistol was ridiculous for what should be obvious reasons. Promethean vision was probably the worst culprit, however. You could use it to setup fast boltshot kills as people came around corners or line up excellent sticky grenade throws as you came around corners. Promethean vision was something that really should never have been a custom loadout option in general. It wasn't just the weapon, grenade, package, and ability combinations that were problematic, however, it was also combinations of loadouts themselves. One excellent strategy was to have different loadouts for different ranges and gameplay styles, and to adapt your playstyle to the map or situation by switching up which one you were using. You could always have the best rifle for the range you were at, and the best abilities for the situation. You could switch between a team-oriented loadout and a lone-wolf loadout in order to switch up your strategy to catch people off-guard. In a BTB game, you could have a loadout built for procuring drops and vehicles (by theft or otherwise), and then respawn with a completely different loadout if you suddenly needed to do something more-close quarters. I don't think that it was simply a matter of just having access to the best things, as the game could have been re-balanced by removing those from the options for loadout weapons or nerfing the worst offenders. Rather, the key issue was that allowing players to mix and match their loadouts allows them to find combinations of weapons and loadouts that fundamentally warp the triangle and the dance. I don't think the warping was primarily an issue with just letting people choose to have a weapon that warped the dance, I think that the issue was being able to come up with broken combinations, which is much harder to balance around.

[@markss367]

Even in mcc the boltshot prevents me from sleeping properly sometimes

[@danielc5647]

dude u want to pvp 1v1? my gt is : Naruto al max , please

[@markss367]

@@danielc5647 xbox or steam

[@mabes448]

I love using boltshot itself like a pistol amd shotgun made a baby in halo 4 they ruined my baby in halo 5

[@acozybunny]

@@mabes448 The boltshot was cancer and should have never been added to the game. Matter of fact, pretty much all of the promethean weapons were unbalanced.

[@mabes448]

@@acozybunny nah the surpressor the promethean dmr zoom shot the were horrible couldn't aim or took long to shoot the next round when zooming boltshot was a cool concept of a pistol and shotgun

[@Evan-or6ip]

Id go a step further to say that br starts has a similar issue since you start with a lot of power immediately just below actual power weapons, auto slayer showed me that halo when played that specific way is a ton of fun

[@aceskeletonne7446]

true but it is at least equal, plus in auto slayer when you pick up a br or carbine you gain such a massive advantage compared to players spawning in, like smg starts in halo 2 against an enemy with a br is an awful experience, so instead of having to scavenge the map just have a chance against a player that doesnt even have a power weapon br starts speeds up that process and allows you to get back into the fight quicker

[@pimper7000]

@@aceskeletonne7446 that's what the pistol is for, if balanced properly it gives a fighting chance against a BR. If you pick you shot and watch your aim the person with the BR won't be at such an unmanageable advantage.

[@aceskeletonne7446]

@@pimper7000 yeah IF balanced properly, or if you even spawn with one at all

[@ScaleTail1101]

@@aceskeletonne7446 However BR starts basically remove the SMG, Plasma Rifle, Magnum, Needler and Sentinel Beam from the Sandbox. Using a Shotgun or Carbine becomes much more risky. I'd say restricting the sandbox should never be done like this.

[@papipunk5233]

That's why I like AR slayer way more. You get to use more of the sandbox without constantly needing to compete with battle rifles

[@tekgeekster]

I agree, but I feel for the sake of custom games, some aspects should stay and perhaps be expanded upon.

[@_mortei_9496]

Another crucial thing to note: You don’t have to aim down sights when engaging enemies most of the time. This allowing you to use all three abilities in combos

[@ablosch2452]

It’s like Halo was trying to become like Call Of Duty or something in multiplayer style, when there’s actually good reason why it should not be like that and be it’s own thing.

[@wv1138]

The more Halo becomes like COD, the less I will play it.

[@ablosch2452]

@@wv1138 same here.

[@ENDfilms44]

In the video you mainly talk about H4's loadout system whith it's cod style perks and pocket power weapons. But at least in social I feel custom loadouts could work if limited to just picking between common starting weapons (br, dmr, ar, smg, magnum) as these can appeal to different playstyles but aren't worth going out of your way to pick them up on the map.

[@HiveQu33n]

I agree. I hope Halo Infinite has that choice at least for social/BTB modes.

[@dud5606]

BR isnt worth to go out and seek it out? TF are you smoking? Its a borderline power weapon lol

[@yuzzo92]

that's pretty much what Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer allows you to do and it feels more correctly placed as a system for a Halo game than Infinity Slayer does in Halo 4.

[@Tesseradical17]

1:22 I would not have lumped in Halo Reach with this video, players couldn't customize them in Reach and they were far more balanced in the gametypes that supported them. It's also important to remember that Reach's gametype-specific Loadouts work fine for asymmetrical modes like Invasion, Infection, Firefight Versus, etc. because they are by definition not meant to have equal starts. Reach's Loadouts were a lot of fun, especially in Custom Games where players were often divided up like enemy classes, and I do want to see them return.

[@jackcolson4745]

But in 4v4, btb, and FFA it must be all equal starts.

[@sneakykatanaman9018]

I like the custom classes in modes that supported it, there are a few modes that can be equal start only and stay in that competitive range. The custom classes I think created a new, strong foundation under the already present one, however in Halo 4 there are some weapons that were accessed from spawn that shouldn't be. I agree with the tier 2 pistol starts like he said, but one thing that is very over tuned is power play from vehicles and weapons. I think these low tier power weapon starts have cut down the ridiculous lengths of time a single player can control the battle field. Power weapons and vehicles are fun when you know the risk of using them as you are a high priority target rather than a juggernaut who can't be stopped.

[@caesoniasAquaria]

Please hear me out. I love custom loadout. The ability to choose from a small selection of weapons that define your place in a fight, is comforting and helps give your Spartan a sense of character. Halo 4's lack of playable elites really hurt me, but instead they allowed players to spawn with certain weapons of their own choosing, and allowed your loadout to reflect certain enemies style. My loadout has the Covenant Carbine, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Grenades, Active Camo, and the others I chose. This level of of customizing allows me too feel like my own spartan that still at least upholds Sangheili traditions, if I myself cant be a Sangheili. There is a sense of comfort knowing that I don't have to scour across maps to find the weapons that make me happy, but instead I am allowed to just use them. And 343 did a great job balancing it with making it to where, the really great weapons only spawn on the map, and the loadout choices are basic and not great unless your good with them. Custom loadouts are fun, unique, and allow me to feel as if I have some control over who I am as a Spartan, and I adore that. Few things make me happier than getting to see that Covenant Carbine in my hands as soon as I respawn. I think custom loadouts were amazing, and I understand the communities hatred of it, but everyone needs to understand that not everyone is the same and likes the same system, that's all I really had to say. I've been playing halo since I was a tiny child and to this day so far, Halo 4 has my favorite version of Halo PvP, because of the ability to have my favorite gun and feel like I'm my own Spartan. So lastly, no, I don't think loadouts are bad for Halo. As long as you don't start with power weapons, I think loadouts are good. (Also I haven't gotten to play Halo 5 yet but I really fuckin want too)

[@CutestDemon]

Hopefully you get to play it soon, and it lives up to your expectations :)

[@caesoniasAquaria]

@@CutestDemon thanks :3 inhopenit comes to mcc soon so I cant play it!!

[@MAC1072]

Personally, I like the custom loadouts. It allows me, a lower tier player, the ability to tilt the table to suit my own personal strengths as a gamer. I frankly suck at some forms of combat in Halo, and no amount of practice seems to change that. However, I am really good at scoring mid range headshots. Custom loadouts allow me to play in a way that gives me a better chance, rather than simply getting steamrolled.

[@toxic1698]

Yeah but they don't want that because it helps the casuals do better overall and we can't have that.

[@mrreaper1436]

Even though I too kinda suck at everything which is not DMR/BR fights, I still disagree with you. We have game modes for that, like the Precision Slayer or SWAT, that conserve a perfect balance for everyone. And even though I don't really like the "classic Halo MP experience", I still recognize the custom loadouts are terrible for those who do, while not giving us anything positive.

[@thelouster5815]

Reach’s loadout system was perfect for Halo. H4’s system was tacked on to attract the COD crowd.

[@dud5606]

It really wasnt good either. Im So very glad they got rid of it.

[@gietpudemee9155]

8:48 As a vehicle player (especially Wraith & Ghost), I'd say definitely yes! The pp being an optional starting weapon made both a lot less useful (that pretty much every other weapon does a lot of vehicle damage doesn't help as well).

[@KeeLoker]

I find it funny that the preview of this video when hovering over it is the section where it says "Equal Starts" Got me thinking that that was the one thing halo should never do again lol

[@scanman2416]

thats exactly what i thought when my youtube did that too lmfao

[@Your_Local_Milk_Man]

@ one word: NO

[@kingdomkey2262]

@ Wow I can tell you have never played an arena shooter in your life before

@@Your_Local_Milk_Man YES not NO

[@Your_Local_Milk_Man]

@ well I and most of the halo community seems to disagree so.............NO

[@iKiwed]

I wonder if 343 could add some H4 playlists without loadouts on MCC. I bet they could use spawn weapons like Bolts hot in a better way.

[@ENDfilms44]

Well there is the precision slayer playlist and to a lesser degree the 3 preset loadouts of squad battle.

[@jackcolson4745]

This might be a hot take for halo 4 fans, but I wish 343 put descope in h4.

[@walrus190]

Custom loadouts aren’t necessarily bad, but it’s probably best they’re kept out of core playlists. Besides, I don’t think we would have known exactly how detrimental they were if Halo 4 hadn’t tried them.

[@benjaminford8173]

I know (for most of the halo community) I speak heresy, but I like being able to use the DMR always. Its nice to have a plasma pistol to be able to disable/destroy vehicles, rather than having to find a pickup item do stop them.

[@Sandyval3124]

If loadouts stay, then I’d prefer the reach way of doing things, in that the loadouts are all standard. Across the two teams with only slight dev balanced and controlled loadouts.

[@ThunderbolttheFox]

I always hated the loadouts. I grew up with the classic trilogy and felt that map pickups was how weapons should be earned. I also hated how Halo 4 limited scavenging grenades required a perk to even work, whilst in the past killing a player guaranteed their entire gear set would drop for your scavenging

[@WerbleWerb]

nice job picking up the sniper rifle just to fall off the cliff right after

[@king.apocalypse4357]

Viewer question: personally I like custom classes because I enjoy having more power, which i get isnt what halo was founded under. But, I also think there should be a true legacy playlist that doesnt have them in infinite so people who do and dont enjoy that style of gameplay still get what they want.

[@tulio.guitar]

we already have that in custom games and other action sack gametypes like fiesta, so theres no point into adding them to the normal gametypes/playlists

[@Sebastian-zt4dq]

I agree having custom classes should be a separate gamemode. I also want infinite to have a halo 5 enhance mobility gamemode. Still I can play infinite without these features

[@king.apocalypse4357]

@@tulio.guitar, can you earn xp (at the normal rate if yes) and do challenges in customs?

[@jackcolson4745]

@@Sebastian-zt4dq That would be an identity crisis for halo Infinite. The game in terms of core gameplay Should be uniform across every single mode. Campaign included. The only time core gameplay should be altered is in forge and customs.

[@Sebastian-zt4dq]

@@jackcolson4745 it's just one gamemode relax

[@alexanderherd2973]

Maybe have the loadouts only be useable in cirtain game modes. That would be fun. Because customisation is really really fun. But you are absolutely correct in how it breaks the overall halo gameplay.

[@isolox9796]

I think that should absolutely be an option in custom games for creators, but not in the core game and matchmaking

[@oliverdowning1543]

For the viewer question: I think custom loadouts have a place in Halo; custom games, asymmetric modes and just other non-traditional game types can definitely have these modifiers placed upon them and account for it building up an altogether different experience. A more tame example of this is Halo Reach's Invasion mode where due to the asymmetry in the gamemode it did not matter that the humans and elites had different armour abilities, guns and grenades because the maps and gamemode were balanced around it. By contrast, regular modes should not have this as Halo is an incredibly well balanced game such as to keep every part of the gameplay as relevant as possible and screwing with it will throw that balance off making the game feel boring and monotone where the decision was not made with purpose and intent therefore, it has a place but only in specific modes built around it and can NEVER be just dragged and dropped into experiences not built for it and have things expect to just work.

[@harrisonfang]

Reach loadouts werent even bad because everyone had the same choices each game. Halo 4 loadouts were though

[@yoyo21926]

yes, having set loadouts represented by visuals to identify eaach one is how to do it. aka overwatch. halo 4 is like a toddler playing chess while making up his own rules

[@ripHalo0002]

I liked the support packages, but everyone spawning with BR/DMR/Carbine was the worst

[@tyrannicswinen117]

The loadout system wasn’t completely ridiculous. The weapons you could pick were just default weapons and not power weapons, well aside from the Boltshot. The only downside to the loadout system was the special abilities like faster shield recharge, ejection from a destroyed vehicle, less kills to earn reqs which did upset the balance a little, but not a lot. If the special abilities weren’t a thing the loadout wasn’t really a bad idea since Reach already started that system.

[@drwaffles317]

I see the negatives but I'm torn because halo 4 and reach were easily my favorites and the ability to optimize your playstyle is very appealing to me.

[@krichardson113]

Proposal: a different-but-equal starts system with a spawn choice of AR/BR/DMR as your primary, and each choice has balanced pros/cons. Maybe armor ability choices (sprint as an inherent ability like 4) with starting options of something like of hologram/thruster pack/hardlight shield, and you have to find the good ones on the map. Nothing more than that though, follow the design philosophy of KISS (keep it simple, stupid). More moving parts in a machine just leads to more components that can break, or just be made poorly in the first place, and cripple the whole system around them.

[@sashanyanriku9650]

Honestly, custom loadouts, with how halo works, only have places in two places, one being pre-existing, and another being entirely conceptual; those being PVE Multiplayer activities, and a BR system. Now, I know a lot of people believe that BR has no place in Halo, to an extent I agree, with that said, whether you like it or not does not mean it won't happen. Firstly, PVE Multiplayer: This would allow for roles to be made, and would promote small team tactics as each player would be able to easily access their role within the squad, and for solo players, this allows them to edit and adapt to the people they are playing with, Firefight being a grand example. Secondly, BRs: Firstly, custom loadouts in BRs are an odd beast, but I do believe that Warzone has managed to create a good system for this, now while I prefer the "build your own gun with shit you find" style, I cannot deny the success of Warzones philosophy of completely removing that aspect of the game. That said, if halo was to have a BR, I think I'd much rather see a custom style built from the ground up to suit Halo best. Custom loadouts, as a whole, do not have a place in Halo PVP as it exists. The only way to rectify this is to make matches that have such a large number of individuals playing together at once with massive maps, that the focus shifts from 1v1 engagements. That begs to ask the question. Does such a mode have a place in Halo? I think it's possible, but I also think that the community would hate it very much till later down the line where Halo has evolved to the point where it needs something new in order to stay relevant to the evolving gaming sphere of influence. End of the day, Custom loadouts could have a place within Halo, granted they are done right, and the weapons are balanced properly, so that there is no dominating factors to be introduced, destabilizing the meta. I can see what 343 was trying to do, to grant individuals the ability to make custom kits that fit to their playstyle the best, and in Halos current sandbox, that simply does not work, but is, at the very same time, not impossible. Only time will tell if such a thing will actually be viable, and if it will help the franchise for the better.

[@Cheezmonka]

While I do agree with you overall, I must say there is also nothing about Halo 4's loadout system that wasn't *technically* equal for everyone. Everybody had all loadout options unlocked basically from the start, so there was nothing keeping all players from having access to an "equal start" regardless of customization. What custom loadouts *did* do was create a stale meta where there was never any reason to try out new stuff because everyone would just start with their perceived preferences or whatever the "meta" loadout was, and not spend enough time experimenting or shuffling around stuff from the sandbox. Great video though. FWIW, I'd be happy if there were certain game modes that included loadouts, assuming MUCH better weapon balancing and NOT having armor abilities that circumvented basic gameplay concepts like mobility (no more jetpack please), letting encounters naturally play out (no armor lock), and map knowledge/strategy (promethean vision has to go).

[@RJCain]

1:10 We were fully discussing and disapproving of loadouts back in 2012 before Halo 4 even launched. And we continued to do so years after it launched. That's one of the reason 343i removed them (among other things) and did equal starts for Halo 5 Arena. The issue is that many of the new mechanics under 343i have been inspired by other titles, and the people who enjoy these mechanics, enjoy them in other games, so expect them to be present in every game. So 343i spent so long shoehorning in other ideas that they never really get to experiment and expand the Halo gameplay itself. Doom 4 vs Doom (2016) is a great example of design lead by expected (modern) features, and design lead by the core of a game's identity.

[@soulcaliberlinkt1k832]

I like loadouts a lot and I like the halo 4 bolt shot! Loadouts aren’t bad because you can still get power weapons! They need to focus on weapon balancing automatic weapons have always been weak, while be dmr/ br always is the meta. Halo 4 assault rifle was powerful though and halo 5s they got autos right

[@hiragatatsumi5714]

I remember the time when Title Update(TU) launched for Halo Reach, where every TU game makes you spawn with a DMR, was hella broken on BTB maps having the ability to spawn with a weapon capable of poking vehicles long range made vehicle gameplay not rewarding as it was so easy to die using one. I much prefer when BTB matches only lets you spawn with an AR.

[@DestroyerApollyon]

The only way it can be tolerable is if power weapons, unique weapons, and plasma grenades are removed as options. I’d rather just not have loadouts in matchmaking at all, since they allow for meta loadouts that practically guarantee victory. In what world is a guaranteed win in a video game fun?

[@rodgeriangames]

The golden triangle is a perfect depiction of combat in Halo, i found myself talking to my wife lastnight who is also a huge halo fan and player, about how Reach is the best halo for multiplayer, simply because it emphasized on the fact that shooting, grenades and melee are all used in almost every engagement - Halo 3 is equally as good as Reach, because they both have additional combat advantages such as on Halo 3 you have Shield Bubbles, EMPS, shield regenerators and launch pads where as Reach has Sprint, jetpack, etc, but each one of these has a strength and a weakness that provides an even playing ground for combat.

[@HazopGaze]

"I assert that Custom Classes* are OBJECTIVELY bad for Halo." < This is an absolute statement for the entirety of the game design that only applies to PvP or other competitive-type situations. (Like campaign leaderboard goals, for example). Custom games, however, had modes that benefited greatly from such options. In PvE modes as well, players could build strong team cohesion and (like in Spartan Ops) better feel that they were playing as THEIR Spartan. Fireteam Crimson was not unlike Noble Six was, a method of player projection, and being able to choose what their Spartans were geared with furthered that projection. Were they Marksmen? Did they like to pick off targets from the shadows, or charge in guns blazing? Some might have been Fireteam medics, too. Did they prefer standard issue UNSC gear? Were they mavericks who liked to branch into using Alien weaponry whenever they could? All this was best expressed under player-created loadouts. Honestly, this video was ALMOST perfect. I have two problems with it. My only major complaint is the absolute statements that cover the entire game, rather than where it's most relevant to. I'm a stickler for wording, because one omitted word or a usage of certain phrases can change the entire meaning of a sentence. Here's another one. "Let's hope this one thing doesn't make a return to Halo, ever." The simple fix here would be to have added "PvP" or "Multiplayer" to the end of those statements, and then I'd have no issues. Sadly, he failed in that regard, in my eyes. This is my other gripe, but it's ultimately minor. >*I hate that he's using that term, because it screams 'CoD Comparison' mentality to me. That sort of thing drives me batty. I don't give a damn WHERE a mechanic came from, what I care about is it's gameplay implications across all aspects of the game.

[@areYouStillUpAt12]

Hello there familiar person

[@HazopGaze]

@@areYouStillUpAt12 Hello other familiar person! =p

[@HazopGaze]

@@areYouStillUpAt12 Hello other familiar person! =p

[@jorgeruiz6855]

I actually liked loadouts on invasion, at first you just start with your average halo multiplayer starter pack but as the battle continues and the offensive team keeps pushing the stakes are higher and so are the weapon tiers you get, makes sense and I thought it was kind of fun but also annoying since there's almost no use on vehicles since everyone has power weapons and they get destroyed in no time so 8/10

[@eb3yr]

They're bad for halo as a whole with their implementation from halo 4, but they were brilliant in halo reach - mostly because everybody was on the same page in terms of weaponry, and there was always some parkour or a path you could use to get to spots where a jetpack would've just made it faster. Boy were loadouts in Halo 4 fun though. Absolutely loved them, and I like how they helped reduce the domination a team could have by having the banshee, mantis or scorpion, while still having those vehicles be equally as potent in terms of damage output.

[@Will_Forge]

You know what would be a great special gametype for Infinite? A gametype where you spawn in with whatever equipment you're currently holding in the campaign at start, then have to a round around for weapons after your initial death. There are minimal weapons on the map, but everyone's starting weapons never despawn, so you can go pick them up. It seems kinda niche, and it probably needs polishing, but as an initial thought it sounds fun to me.

[@JamesTDG]

That actually sounds pretty neat. Clean it up a bit and shove it on the main Halo forums, maybe 343 will accept the concept...

[@SNAKE.LOVER.69]

Late to the party, but here's my take anyway. (You may proceed to the last paragraph if you wish only to read the summary.) The "*Equal Starts*" ideology is far too stiff for normalizing fun. While Halo 4 (for this point referred to as H4 (etc. for the rest of the titles)) had gone a little overboard with the weapons they chose, it wasn't like they abandoned the principals of *Equal Starts* in it's entirety. There was a system of checks and balances that, although not fully realized, did put everyone on a even-ish start. If one wanted to carry two primary weapons into battle, they had to sacrifice one of their passive buff slots. If one wanted to make a wheelman build to counter the Plasma Pistol spam, he or she would have to give up both passive slots in order the *EFFECTIVELY* do so. Sure, this did leave a person the ability to use two passives to make a highly sustainable and long living class. It also meant having a way to circumvent these individuals as well. The biggest down-side to the customization in H4 was simply the limit (or lack there of) and the horribly unbalanced nature of some of the weapons. However, if this system for class customization was limited to say, H3's weapon sandbox, and limited again to two-to-three classes entirely, it would be drastically better. This is mostly do in part thanks to H3 having solid weapon balance as well as comparable weapon statistics. Need not look further than the Plasma Carbine and the Battle Rifle. While one is undoubtedly better at long range than the other, their similar (mathematically identical even) Time To Kill in a medium range encounter insures a rough ~50%-50% chance of either player being the victor. So being given the option to start with either one from the start would be a rather safe thing to do. It gets harder when comparing the Plasma Rifle and the Assault Rifle, but they are rather comparable more for skill and accuracy over straight TTK. I do believe H:R did this best with preassigned classes to chose from, despite some of their choices being lack-luster and assigning actual power weapons to some of them. In either case, it's still leagues above what they did with H5 and their 12vE and 12v12vE modes. Someone with the right amount of "Req's", specifically those coveted by the community, could simply make the experience unenjoyable. Even in the 12vE mode, this "Req" system isn't fun as it actively hinders other players from partaking in the Firefight. Weather that be killing the boss too quickly or managing to take all the kills from their teammates, especially when XP is given out based around participating in these killings. In essence, the *Equal Starts* ideology needs to be a little less ridged and more flexible to a changing market without bowing to it entirely. Allowing some player choice in starting weapons is a good start so long as balance is maintained. You must wait for your foundation to set before you can place your lumber.

[@civicrider5556]

finally you mentioned the only thing i had problem with in halo 4, these perks literally alter the main gameplay since every person may have had a different perk installed in them

[@redrenegade7724]

Can you really say all players have an equal chance of obtaining map weapons? What if they're new and don't know the map? Or if someone else makes it there first because of where they spawned?

[@natehaderlie]

This was a GREAT breakdown of the importance of the golden triangle WITHIN the triangle dance that makes Halo so special!

[@Gam3rSheep]

Except most players aren't going to agree with this opinion. His "golden triangle" does not accurately represent halo's gameplay.

[@Byeahman]

Never really looked at it this way until now. It really is a damaging feature. Hopefully Infinite doesn't have it. If it does, make it a separate game mode, or just part of custom games.

[@ignacioedwards8536]

Impopular opinion: I like them, I believe that not starting as Equal Spartans is not all bad, but it is just different: you start as your own Spartan, your loadouts represent your personal ways of facing the game, and at least in my case, I It makes me feel more like the Spartan I'm designing, I am, in fact, me, because it has something of my personality, even if it's just my tactics for the game. I don't think it's wrong, BUT I think both modes of experiences should be available: game modes where loadouts are supported, for “custom Spartans”, and others without loadouts, for “equal Spartans”.

[@mikethemess2627]

Your photos look cool when you go up and down. For me.

[@Joseph-qp1jx]

Armor abilities are not the worst thing in the world, and I think they were a decent addition to the series. They were easily countered, and honestly made the gameplay loop feel more rewarding once you figured out their nuances. I never knew why Halo 4's multiplayer felt so fundamentally different from the others, and I always said "If I wanted this gameplay I'd have just played Blops 2". Thank you for explaining the triangle.

[@ls200076]

Keep loadouts in custom games and "fun" gamemodes like griffball, infection, invasion etc.

[@PhillipOnTakos]

I love how in Halo 4 grenades from the enemy couldn't be picked up unless you had a perk. That's right you needed a perk to do a basic function of every other game way to give us options by removing core mechanics.

[@Chef740]

The only way I can see custom classes working is if Infinite has its own form of Spartan ops where we can do missions with our custom spartans. In my opinion Spartan ops was the only place the loadouts worked because they added to the idea that your Spartan was prepping their gear for a actual mission similar to have you see Linda and Kelly have a sniper and a shotgun at the start of a mission because it was to their preference. I think there is a lot of value in the fantasy of our custom spartans prepping for and going on missions in universe and I hope they manage to bring it back in a way that works.

[@JamesTDG]

I have to agree, being able to have access to the most powerful weapons almost instantly sucks. It is kinda like Halo 5's warzone mode, if you have enough money, you could buy tons of expensive req packs in order to gain an advantage.

[@alienatedpoet1766]

Rant time! Honestly, no. I still like custom loadout because I feel the sandbox was screwed up to begin with because its built around 1 weapon. So every other weapon was either objectively worse or objectively better. But because the base weapon is so good, that only power weapons did better. Halo CE: Magnum Halo 2: BR Halo 3: BR Halo Reach: DMR Halo 4: BR/DMR (At least they had two as option) Halo 5: Magnum Granted, it made everyone "even", but threw the skill ceiling high up. Which is fine, but now anything that isn't a power weapon is automatically made worse. The campaign implies that covenant/energy weapons deal with shields, and human/ballistic weapons shred health, or headshot. So ideally you would have one of both. But again, those base precision weapons are always better even in campaign up until late-heroic at most. I cannot remember the last time anyone used the plasma rifle or spiker or carbine and got more kills than the guy that held onto the BR. Making the loadouts helped bring the skill ceiling lower, then the balancing changes made otherwise useless guns a valid option. The AR in Halo 4 was actually decent for once. For example: In Quake Champions you can start with a nailgun, shotgun, or machine gun. The three work differently, but can fit everyone's playstyle. Then every other weapon found is better, there are not any objectively worse guns than what you start with. If you're good at leading: rocket launcher is for you, you're not and like an instant shot: railgun, you like to get up close: Lightning gun. It is still skill based, but you can still play how you want. But in Halo you're either good with precision, or you're screwed until you survive long enough to find a power weapon or vehicle. Halo 4 and the attachments in Halo 5 helped this problem. Honestly, I love Ruby's Rebalanced mod because it actually promoted that kind of gameplay. Everything had a purpose and was good enough to keep through the mission. I didn't just keep the BR on me until I could get a power weapon or I got stuck and forced myself to try different guns laying around until I finally broke through. Theoretically, where a player is placed on the Golden triangle would shift depending on what they have. Base start in the middle, Rockets and stuff toward grenades, energy sword shotgun hammer toward melee, hitscan up toward the guns. But then you look at the spiker, plasma rifle, concussion rifle, carbine, etc. And you're just thrown off the triangle altogether because those don't fit on the triangle and don't work outside the campaign on Normal or lower. It makes them literal wasted disk space! Bungie made some really cool and fun guns, but if they aren't good enough to practically use, then there is no point for them to be on the map. No one wants to use them because they become a liability. Dual Wielding could have made some of these weaker guns better, but they nerfed it in Halo 3 because it was too strong in Halo 2, and straight up got rid of them later. TL;DR: Halo 4 actually promoted playstyles when they rebalanced the human and promethean weapons for the sandbox. But Halo 3 and Reach kept my beloved Spiker worse than everyone's DMR. :(

[@Jormyyy]

Although I understand they are a detriment to the core gameplay, I still like them. I think they work best in BTB or Dominion mode, really captures that Conquest from Battlefield vibe that I like. The custom loadouts finally let me cater Halo to more my playstyle. I can take the gunner perk, the assault rifle and suppressor, plus the auto turret ability, and finally be a walking bulletstorm that I enjoy so much.

[@AscendHyperion]

I mean, I never tell people they can or can't like something. You can like something with negative effects and in vice versa. It matters not to me. But our likes/dislikes should never prevent us from being able to recognize and evaluate positive/negative results. And often people aren't willing to cross those wires.

[@pubcle]

I'd put a bit more emphasis on Reach personally - see how vehicles were made so easily destroyed, or how sprint and jetpack completely destroyed the flow of combat, the sprint double melee, the lack of bleed through ensuring that the melee has greater combat than others and sprint allowing an easy escape, later thrust allows for strafing breaks as well. Halo Reach first broke the foundation and it took a decade for Halo to recover, but thankfully now it seems to have finally. I couldn't vocalize _why_ I didn't like Halo Reach nearly as much as 3 and 2 for so many years, but I knew I didn't. Now that I'm older and looking at game design myself it's very clear that the entire design structure is broken in that game. Loadouts have their place - custom games - and in other shooters they work fine when asked, but in Halo the equal starts and golden triangle, as you said, are absolutely vital to the gameplay.

[@korloq8968]

Custom loadouts for custom games is good, but custom loadouts have NO place in regular preset multiplayer modes. (Unless it's an action sack type of thing)

[@jaytonhawkins2872]

I think a good video would be discussing how Halo 5 preserved the classic Halo gameplay philosophy in Arena, but allowed a less competitive, more chaotic experience in Warzone. You could choose what kind of experience you wanted, but they stayed completely separate. I think that was a great design choice.

[@dustinarmstrong9516]

I have been playing Halo since CE. It's the reason I bought an Xbox almost 20 years ago. After CoD multi-player became a thing 'equal starts' has always been my psotion for why Halo has a better formula than any other FPS.

[@icarusgaming6269]

I could see this working for only one dedicated game mode. There has been some talk of a beefed up version of invasion this would be perfect for, while leaving the traditional modes unaltered

[@lockevalentine997]

I agree with basically everything so long as this is under the condition, "in a competitive setting" because I loved messing around with custom loadouts in Halo with my friends, I have so many fond memories of that, and while Halo 4 matchmaking was made a mess. I also think that loadouts which only slightly alter are fine. An example would be BR or DMR starts, or armor ability selection (although some need to be less game breaking, looking at you armor lock).

[@wolfdragox5563]

I like the idea of loadout as a ALTERNATIVE game mode, not as the main one, I like H4, but I will never say it was a good idea to have loadouts in the main game mode, if loadouts ever return in HI, I pray they keep it as a custom game or somekind of special game mode, never as the main one...never again.

[@c00lhand208]

They're okay in particular social PvP settings, probably most any PvE mode, and in custom matches. Ideally, if brought to PvP matchmaking they find a way to curb them in such a way to still feature a form of "Even Starts". Think in similar fashion to how Halo 5's Warzone mode attempted to deal with it, but without the need for progressively unlocking a personal collection of loadout weapon options (via REQ Packs) to eventually equip during an active match based on your current REQ Point (RP) level in-game. In other words, give everyone access to the same full sandbox of optional loadout weapons (aka again no more REQ Packs to build a personal collection of loadout type weapons to access), but keep some sort of point meter within these matches as a means to enforce a form of "Even Starts" at match start and to curb player options throughout the match. Thus, allowing in-game team & personal performance paired with a timed drip feed (of point level) to dictate what loadout options become progressively available to players throughout the match. Honestly, I thought the base level concept of what Warzone was attempting to do to bring a form of "Even Starts" to such an expansive social mode was fairly clever and I think it could be expanded on a bit in Infinite if they really wanted to.

[@mattd5857]

Reach's loadout system was fine and in most game modes was used to merely allow the use of different armor abilities, and generally was a great tool for custom games. 4's loadout system had issues as described here but the real offender of Halo 4 in my eyes was the Ordnance system. The plasma grenades and plasma pistol in loadouts was damaging to vehicle gameplay but it was practically a necessary evil because the Ordnance system removed map control and the ability to seek out power weapons to combat vehicles. Without the option of spawning with these anti-vehicle tools BTB matches would entirely determined by what team was able to control vehicle spawns instead of the team that could control both vehicle AND power weapon spawns, a much harder feat. The lack of reliable power weapon spawns was equally damaging on smaller non BTB maps as well, no longer was control of weapon spawns a real concern. Ordnance also upset power weapon balance on a map by granting custom ordnance drops that could allow nonsense like 4+ of one type of power weapon to be in play at once. As a result of custom ordnance static ordnance points were anemic at best on H4 maps and most of those were randomized meaning it was often not worth the effort to fight to control them when you could play more cautiously and just build up your own curated ordnance drop. Halo 4's custom loadout system might have been horribly destructive in any other Halo game but with 4's ordnance and map design it was about the only thing that made the game playable imo.

[@siubijeni7986]

Halo 4 was my favorite multiplayer, and I have to disagree with a lot of the points here. As a particular example, everyone having the option to spawn with a plasma pistol does not automatically invalidate vehicle gameplay... one of my best games was mostly in a vehicle and I had a KDR of over 26 (don't remember the exact decimal). You can play around plasma pistols and more importantly... not everyone picks a plasma pistol. You aren't forced to pick a plasma pistol any more than you are a boltshot.

[@epyon542]

I hated custom loadouts back in the day for this exact reason but never really understood the extent that it really effected the game. I just knew something felt off with them.

[@noel-qf7vt]

I disagree loadouts simply need to be balanced. There was never such a thing as an equal start. Whoever spawned the closest to the power weapons on their side of the map and knew where they were got them. If you weren't the person who spawned closest to it then you had to either get lucky or use the starting gun. You're playing as a Spartan have only unsc weapons as loadouts there's not very many so balancing isn't difficult. Everything else will be on the map like it used to be. Or compromise have classic "equal start" and loadouts enabled as two different playlists kind of like core/hardcore in cod but with the option to also rotate between the 2 kinda like in mcc you rotate through the different games and modes you pick.

[@iNFAMOUSxHAVOC]

This is a great discussion to be had, I believe custom classes are just part of the issue when it comes to Halo 4. There are still bigger issues that reside within both this and Halo 5’s multiplayer design than this topic though, and it became prevalent in Reach as well. Armor Abilities and various features the Spartans have at the ready break your triangles as well because there are fundamental firefights that happen in 1, 2, and 3 that just don’t happen the same way enough or at all because they threw in ground stomp, sprint, or mantling to make a jump, aim down sight on every weapon, armor lock and Promethean vision, etc etc. Yes we can all choose from them or are given those spartan features, but they change up the experience drastically enough that the “Halo” experience barely feels relevant in the games after Reach and instead they feel like a copy cat of other franchises. I.e.: Titanfall, Call of Duty, and other shooters that don’t have Halo’s same uniqueness.

[@dieterhorvat5176]

I feel vindicated for being so pissed at 13 about Load-outs in Halo 4. You should've mentioned how all of the "main" weapons were homogenised into "machine gun variant" or "DMR variant" as a compromise for load outs. there was no reason to pick one over another.

[@KillerSmile559]

Honestly Halo 4 should've had two distinct multiplayer modes. Same starts and custom starts. Some online game modes were custom starts only like my favorite Halo 4 game mode Dominion. If the option for players to play every game mode with either option, I think Halo 4's multiplayer base would have stayed with the game longer. Custom loadouts have their place in some aspects of Halo. Like custom games, forge, firefight, and Spartan Ops. It was nice to have game modes like SWAT and Griffball to have loadouts. For SWAT you could choose the BR or DMR since they have similar roles. One thing I would have improved in Halo 4's SWAT was having the Carbine and the Light Rifle as weapon pick ups on the map. For Griffball, having the option to have the Sword or Hammer out first was nice.

[@GoatingStuff]

I feel like loadouts were ok in reach because at least everyone had the same options to choose from. I also think dual weilding should never come back either (as cool as it was) or at least not in the same way as it was done in 2 and 3

[@SASJinno]

The only major problem with loadouts in Reach was that they would provide a minor means to counterplay someone on a killing spree that the spreeing player would be unable to control for or adapt to. It also, in general, invalidated the ability to have a reasonable knowledge of what any given player was capable when you encountered them, because they had a choice that you could not control for. Would they armor lock, sprint away, fly away, kill your radar, etc. It introduces a lot of variables that paralyze decision making within the dance.

[@GoatingStuff]

@@SASJinno which I think is ok in a casual/ custom games, but then I’m competitive it can be equal starts like classic. I think reach did the half way point with that and sprint very well

[@SASJinno]

@@GoatingStuff - I'm generally of the opinion that anything goes in Casuals. Feel free to expand with dozens of options for wacky things in customs. Just make the default experience be the true core Halo experience.

[@GoatingStuff]

@@SASJinno that’s how I feel too, I think reach did that the best, and being able to set them the same for everyone is something I hope they’d bring back

[@serosona2322]

I disagree and think that loadouts were a garbage system in reach and let me explain why. Sprint and armour lock were the only viable load outs, with sprint probably being the more useful of the two. I would’ve much rather had sprint as something every player had, and armour abilities be pick ups off the ground. This has a benefit as well, if armour abilities were ground pickups, they could be more useful, powerful, and worthwhile. Imagine fighting over a buffed jet pack or armour lock. This is why 3’s equipment works and reach’s abilities don’t

[@FrogTroj]

I don't think we'll get custom loadouts in Infinite, but I think we will get loadouts closer to what we had in reach. The whole bulldog controversy and response lead me to believe this, the way that they phrased its role. "The Bulldog is an exciting new shotgun weapon that is fast-firing and fast-loading. We have felt that the shotgun playstyle has been underrepresented in previous Halo titles, particularly in Multiplayer. We’ve found that there are a lot of players that want to be that “in-your-face CQC front-liner” but have never had a more readily available, less powerful, but still effective, shotgun that allowed them to play that role frequently across the multiplayer experience." This, specifically the last sentence about more "frequent" use, screams loadout weapon. I'd prefer AR/sidekick starts, but I'm personally open to the idea of loadouts. I think if they're *just* starting primary weapons, and not secondary and grenades, it can be balanced properly - just no equipment or perks, please!

[@jackcolson4745]

Maybe for custom games, but never for matchmaking

[@FrogTroj]

@@jackcolson4745 I always thought that would be great, having loadouts be an optional/secondary feature, only accessible in specific game modes and custom games. Maybe we will see it implimented in certain modes, not neseccarily in exclusively custom games, but possibly in modes like the rumored BTB 2.0. I ultimately think loadouts have a massive negative impact on smaller "Arena" style maps/modes specifically, but could work well for larger game modes in particular.

[@jackcolson4745]

@@FrogTroj It would conflict with the game's identity. Halo Infinite will be confused on what wants to be if it has dedicated game modes that appease only certain groups of the halo fanbase. It will only further divide the community.

[@harveykaiba]

If 343 were to only have had AAs and primary weapon selection (completely ditch the secondary weapon selection so we don't get a PP or boltshot issue), and cut out the perks, H4's loadout system would be really good in my opinion. I personally loved spawning with an abundance of ammo in Spartan Ops though since 343 decided that every weapon should have a hilariously low amount of reserves for some forsaken reason. I will say though that the ability to spawn with either a DMR or BR in BTB was very nice.

[@voidflame3544]

Custom classes allowed for more variety and made for more viable play styles than the equal starts system. Especially when the equal start includes an assault rifle, which is almost always an absolutely worthless peashooter. I’d rather have the opportunity to make a class that suits my needs and encounter other players that have done the same than play a game mode where everyone is using a pistol 95% of the time and a random power weapon the other 5% of the time. Further, having custom classes can actually make a game more balanced than not. Consider the rifle options for Halo 4; DMR, Covenant Carbine, Light Rifle, and the Battle Rifle (excluding assault rifle because it is a joke). All of these weapons were made to be balanced with one another, having strengths and weaknesses that made them relatively balanced with one another. Compare this to Halo 5, where every standard nonhuman weapon is considerably better than most standard human weapons. Weapons like the Covenant Carbine and Light Rifle are now much stronger than human weaponry for the sole reason of because you can’t spawn with them. So if you get into a fight with someone that has a nonhuman weapon in Halo 5 while you have a standard human weapon, you basically just lose because the nonhuman weapon is balanced to be considerably more powerful. Combine this with the unbelievably restrictive inability to regenerate shields while sprinting, and you basically have no chance for survival when encountering an equally proficient opponent that has a nonhuman weapon. Your weapon is worse and you can’t run. And that is not even to mention that absurdities of some super power weapons, as I call them, in Halo 5, like The Answer. Halo 4’s multiplayer was far more enjoyable to me than Halo 5’s. Halo 5 is more restrictive in every way compared to Halo 4, which made the game far less enjoyable. From mobility, where your shields don’t regenerate while running and you can be forced out of sprinting if you get shot at the right time, to the lack of armor abilities which augmented play style and opened up interesting and novel strategies that spiced up the gameplay. In Halo 4 you could do what you wanted. In Halo 5 every match is the same, just with different players. For a game that has as many different weapons as Halo 5, it is a travesty that you spend 95% of the game using the same 3 guns and 1 grenade: the BR, Assault Rifle, Pistol, and Frags.

[@savaget2058]

I think with the right controls and balancing in place that custom loadouts could work in Halo. However, now that the DMR and Carbine/Needle Rifle are gone from the sandbox I don't think it will ever happen again.

[@SoupRoutine]

I liked the way the loadouts worked in Reach. Some gametypes can really benefit from it; Invasion for example. Halo 4 did make it a bit easier to play, but I still felt like the loadouts were still somewhat balanced (with the exception of the boltshot). Since yeah, you could take some pretty powerful tactical packages, but your enemies could easily have counters to them. Overall, I didn't hate them. But I can see how their inclusion damaged the golden triangle in some respects. Also it was a blatant attempt to copy CoD

[@XSniper74184]

Okay I'm okay with loadouts themselves as a concept but not how they were executed in any Halo. From the first appearance, the biggest issue with Reach's armour abilities was that they weren't available on the map and didn't drop on death. I would be fine with them being rechargeable, but letting the players get them on the map, even having power-abilities, would make it much better. The fact that abilities are chosen on spawn, and unless on a custom map with them added, can't be changed or fought over made them not especially good. For Halo 4, I have far more issues with the loadouts. Just strip off everything that wasn't weapons and abilities (having abilities work like I mentioned above would make them okay) and dramatically change the weapon selection. If Plasma grenades are stronger than frags like they always have been, only give frags, no other option. Do NOT allow an all-purpose and strong weapon to be chosen at loadout. No BR type weapons, no boltshot, nothing except useful but weak weapons. This would probably mean adding weapons into the game specifically to be weak. Something like a pistol being a weaker version of the magnum, just for primary weapons. Perhaps have the SMG as a loadout weapon and the AR be the on-map version. Basically, don't have players spawn with meta defining weapons. This of course would need some balancing so that the loadout weapons are all relatively equal to eachother, weaker than their on map counterparts, but not completely useless. The ideal of this is the player should always want to drop their starting weapon, but never that it is useless. As a side effect of players spawning with weaker weapons, increase the number of weapons on map with the additions being the standard versions of the starting weapons. Players should be able to start with a weapon of a style they want (precision, automatic, close range/long range) and relatively quickly find a standard weapon that will be better than what they have, but not necessarily of the type they want. Or just use equal starts because they are so much easier to have balanced.

[@halocraft314]

I thin that custom loadouts were good in Spartan Ops, but not in multiplayer. I liked how in Halo 5 Warzone (the true Warzone) you got access to your different loadout weapons as the game went on, instead of having all of them from the start.

[@lonewolfex]

I enjoyed the versatility Loadouts allowed in H4, but can understand why it clashes with the Halo formula in negative ways. If I had to rework it, I probably would make a small number of different starting loadouts that aren't customizable. That way there's more variety in the gameplay than Assault Rifle/Magnum to start, but you don't have the ability to optimize in ways that invalidate other playstyles. Make that the start set for online/competitive play, but allow customization in custom games.

[@JaimeNyx15]

Been watching a lot of these videos lately. Has no one ever pointed out that the “ITS” in “ITS ALL RIGHT HERE” should have an apostrophe, since it’s taking the place of “it is”?

[@macaron3141592653]

As much as I agree, I would like one game mode where you can have custom class and loadouts, like in Halo 5 warzone, but keep it away from Arena.

[@kirbyspog2406]

So I know this might sound crazy but I absolutely loved the load out mechanic In halo 4! I do agree having plasma Grenades as a base option was not the best move and also how the armor upgrades weren’t flushed out or balanced enough, but the plasma pistol was a great option to having in the game especially when there’s people that will try and stay in a mantis an entire game. The bolt shot is not broken and it is quite hard to be killed by it unless someone is really and I mean really close to you plus there’s a whole charge up. I’m not trying to come out you when I say this but you are wrong when you say it’s unbalanced reason being everybody has access from the start to make those custom load outs. It also makes it more lore friendly I’m not saying multiplayer should even be lore friendly but I mean hey it’s kinda cool. And before any of y’all come at me saying I probably started on halo 4 nah I started playing when I was 4 and halo ce was 1 year old.

[@caleg2256]

I pretty much agree with everything you said here. I just want to point out that loadouts worked really well in BTB modes. Also glad you mentioned the Boltshot. People act like it’s a power weapon but it requires skill as you have to start charging at just the right time and it’s very close range. Overall though they should have removed the Boltshot, plasma grenades, and Promethean Vision from loadouts.

[@kingdomkey2262]

The boltshot and dmr were horrifically overpowered in the launch months of the game so that is not entirely true

[@caleg2256]

@@kingdomkey2262 well it’s a good thing they updated Halo 4 then. If we judge games by their launch conditions then TMCC would be considered trash and yet it’s my favorite in the series. I actually hated Halo 3 when I first played TMCC and now it’s my most played Halo.

[@bluespartan-6628]

Plasma pistol at spawn also allows any player to get a noob combo on others without the need to pick it up in the field

[@reyzephlyn105]

H4 Loadouts always made me doubt myself. I've made a habit of basically adding an extra shot/burst on players. Especially with stuff like eject

[@EvilParagon4]

Don't forget how the plasma pistol validates noob comboing in matchmaking as a regular tactic. I'd argue the plasma pistol is more viable than the bolt shot just because of the prevalence of precision weapons as loadout options.

[@tl4836]

I agree with all of this. Id also like to point out that alot of perk options were just gameplay elements, like picking up grenades or ammo.

[@iaxacs3801]

As an extension of this let's talk about Warzone and it's ability to spawn in basically indestructible vehicles and overwhelming power weapons and you had to have a redeemable card to bring them in