The Origin of Standard Yiddish Pronunciation

[@dasGagaTier]

It seems, the Yiddish spoken today in formal settings is very "German", whereas the Yiddish spoken in Williamsburg and other places where it is still the vernacular is quite different. I am a German native speaker and I understand almost every word he says in the video, whereas when I recently watched the movie "Menashe", I was totally lost.

[@garlandstrife]

Naturally, this is Standard Yiddish. Its standardization process "Germanized" it to some extent.

[@elkhananeli]

I guess it depends also on how much German is in the Yiddish of any one speaker, and how much Hebrew, Slavonic, Lithuanian etc. Its not just register, but also regional dialect. Yiddish from Central Europe would likely have a lot more German in it...as ther dialects go Eastwards the variety of linguistic input rises dramstically, from Lithuania in the Baltic, to Polish, Russian, maybe even Hungarian and Romanian words creepimng in. All mixed with Hebrew and even Aramaic... Its a fascinating study...!

[@dasGagaTier]

@@elkhananeli Yes, but it is also endlessly saddening that most of this linguistic diversity is a thing of the past now. Yiddish used to be spoken by 12 million people between Vilnius and Odessa, and not just by ultra-orthodox Khassids but by everybody. I recently visited Cracow, which before the war was one third Jewish, and most of them spoke Yiddish most of the time. Actually, as a German speaker, I would have had a relatively easy time communicating while travelling between the Baltic and the Black sea, with all the Jewish and ethnic German communities peppered over this vast territory, each of whom had their own dialect. Admittedly, it would have taken time to understand the dialects. The East European ethnic German dialects were often as distant from standard German as Yiddish is, there is a fascinating article by Uriel Weinreich comparing Yiddish and German dialect spoken in Eastern Europe.

[@dasGagaTier]

@TheWorldInMyHead Thanks. Although those examples look just like different pronounciation. Anyway, in Williamsburg I was completely lost, while I understand almost every word effortlessly in this video (I have to admit, I have a background in Slavic studies, therefore the Polish words in Yiddish also aren't really foreign to me)

[@fredrikrugby]

I can't help but have a weird German or even Swiss German accent when I speak with the YIVO pronunciation. But that's the kind of Yiddish taught in classes now

[@keetrandling4530]

and, how can people in the US complain about language having different registers? Do you talk to your mother the same way you talk with your friends on the street? or, Do you speak in a public venue the same as at home? Of course not.

[@aljazp.934]

Love the sound of the language, I think it's very fascinating.

[@renedupont1953]

Our classic writers Sholem Aleykhem, Mendele Meykher-Sforim and Y. L. Perets had nothing to do with any kind of artificial "standard" Yiddish pronunciation. They each spoke and wrote in their respective regional Yiddish variants. At that time there were millions of authentic Yiddish-speakers in Eastern Europe. All three regional variants were widely spoken: Lithuanian-Belorussian Yiddish, Ukrainian Yiddish and Polish Yiddish. Each variant had its characteristic sentence melodies. These variants were authentic in every sense of the word and had been so for centuries. There is no reason to call them dialects. Thus we see that Yiddish already had three standard pronunciations. Volynian Yiddish (from the northern Ukraine) was widely used in the Yiddish theater. In the same way, American English has its regional variants: Eastern-seabord, Mid-Western, Southern English. Before and after the Holocaust, the above-mentioned authentic regional Yiddish variants were used in a natural way wherever Yiddish was spoken. The so-called "standard Yiddish" pronunciation is artificially contrived and is based solely on spelling; it has no characteristic intonation patterns. It is closest to the Lithuanian-Belorussian variety, but there are many differences. In no way is it a natural language. It is used mainly by students who have learned it by taking a Yiddish course. Yiddish is not a natural language for them and their command of the language is minimal. Just because certain individuals, who are far removed from the Yiddish folk language, say that they have concocted a "standard" does not mean that it has any validity. It is only the natural Yiddish regional variants which can survive and which are, indeed, surviving. This can be observed among the Lubavitcher hassidim (Lithuanian-Belorussian Yiddish), among the Bobever, Gerer and Satmarer hassidim (Polish or Central Yiddish). The gentleman in this video is not a native speaker, his speech is certainly not natural and there's a carry-over from English. It's strictly for "show and tell". In other words, he's "putting it on"; it's nothing more than an affectation. The age-old intonations and the special Yiddish flavor are absent. So what good is it? AZ ME VIL ZEKH OISLERNEN A GUTN, A GISHMAKN, A ZAFTIKN IDESH, MUZ MEN "GEYN IN FOLK" UN ZIKH AINHERN IN DI UMGIFELSHTE REYD FUN UNDZERE AMKHO-IDN, UNDZERE FOLKSMENTSHN. DO GEYEN NIT ON KIN KUNTSN UN KIN DREYDLAKH. The Yiddish language is in grave danger and is struggling to survive. This is no time to play around with nonsense. Don't fall for the hogwash that is presented above. [This comment has been written by a professional Yiddish linguist for whom Yiddish is a mother tongue.]

[@KameaMedia]

Dr. Glasser began teaching himself Yiddish at the age of five, so technically, he is not a native speaker. I recall a pleasant lunch I had with him and his parents in 1982 in NYC while I was studying at the Columbia-YIVO Summer Program. FYI.

[@Felsinae]

Philologists try to establish a standard as a way to strengthen a language that might otherwise dissolve into a plethora of dialects, each too small to stand on its own, and to define a literary language with a canon. You may disapprove of the standard chosen, or quarrel with the project for other reasons, but it’s not fair to take the attempt as an attack on Yiddish.

[@rennyskiathitis8178]

I feel like Yiddish taught in American classrooms should be the dialect spoken by native Yiddish Speakers. Hassidic Yiddish should be the Standard simply because they are the only Jews that teach the language as a Mame Loshn.

[@tylersmith3139]

I disagree. Having an international standard on teaching the language means it's easier to teach people Yiddish all over the world, people can then adjust their Yiddish to whatever local dialect of Yiddish is near them. Hasidic Yiddish/Southern/Galitzianer Yiddish in the US is a lot different from the Litvish still spoken amongst some in Jerusalem, especially because the dialects are no longer spoken in one continuous, but in different parts of the world. It's a lot easier to learn one standard language while teaching about the differences between dialects, than learning many different standards based on numerous dialects that splits up language learners and language communities. YIVO Yiddish makes this easier because it takes from many dialects and learners often fully adopt the dialect of other speakers they're around. Standard Irish Gaelic does the same thing. It blends features of the different dialects together and people who learn it will often go to a Gaelic majority speaking region in Ireland and fully adopt the regional dialect. The dialects are still preserved, nor are they seen as lesser. That standard just creates one medium that not only legitimizes the language, but also provides one source to learn from. With there being one written Yiddish language, dialects don't have to compete for learners as everyone learns one neutral variant of Yiddish and then they slowly transition to one dialect or the other.

[@renedupont1953]

Standard literary Yiddish originated and existed in written form only. The so-called "standard Yiddish pronunciation" is not a standard at all. It is merely a corruption of Lithuanian-Belorussian Yiddish and it reflects spelling only. It is usually accompanied by a foreign (mainly American-English) accent and has no natural intonation patterns. The Yiddish-speaking masses in Eastern Europe did not use this "standard pronunciation", (and certainly not in everyday life, in family life, in the religious Jewish schools, when children played together, in Yiddish movies, in the Yiddish theaters which used Volhynian [northern-Ukrainian] Yiddish). It didn't even exist then; it's a recent concoction which started to be used mainly in America by a small group of students whose mother tongue was English. It was never a natural language used by native Yiddish-speakers. It sounds flat and uninteresting to native Yiddish ears and is, in reality, a haven for incompetent users of the language, students and teachers alike. The well-known highly qualified Yiddish linguist Chaim Gininger used to say: "First they spoil it, then they teach it"--- a truer word was never said. In this way, unsuspecting and naive students are taken far away from authentic spoken Yiddish and they never acquire the language properly. Standard literary French, German, Russian and Swedish are used by thousands and thousands of native speakers. This has never been the case with Yiddish. [This comment has been written by a professional Yiddish linguist whose mother tongue is Yiddish; he has taught authentic unadulterated Yiddish to thousands of students.]

[@benhakadoshakagerhardyitzh8612]

Hobdiehre ! Reydn zi eyne lithvishe oder eyne galizianerishe mameloshn Herr meyvn fun di idishe sprakh ? ......zay gezunt....Sholem..

[@renedupont1953]

@ P C. You don't know what you're talking about. Look in any Yiddish dictionary and you'll discover the unique essence of Yiddish vocabulary. There's no sense comparing Yiddish with any German dialect; there is no comparison. Consult my comment in Mr. Madenford's site on Pennsylvania German and Yiddish. You will find twenty authentic Yiddish sentences taken from literature and the spoken language. No speaker of German or any German dialect can understand them. Spoken and written Yiddish has thousands of sentences like my examples. E. g. AF DER KHASENE HOBN DI KLEZMORIM ZEKH ONGIZHLYOKET MIT MASHKE. Or a simple sentence like: HULYE KAPTSN! There is much more to Yiddish than its Germanic component, which can be very different from any form of German. What about the thousands of Yiddish words whose components have different origins: FARMEYEKHT, OISGIMUTSHET, TSEBUSHEVET, TSUGIGANVET, IBERGIPLONTERT, DERKAZHEN, BAGAZLENEN, UNTERKOVEN, IBERSHEPTSHEN ZEKH, FARPRAVEN, FARMANYEN, BAZHALKEVEN, TSULATKHENEN, TSEBLISHTSHEN ZEKH, FARKHMARET, ONGIKHMURET, FARTSIREVEN, OISKEREVEN ZEKH, FARLYAPEN, IBERKHAZERN. Look these words up in a dictionary. You haven't even scratched the surface. P. S. Mr. Glasser's "performance" is not an example of authentic, unadulterated Yiddish and it has nothing to do with YIVO, which is mainly an English-speaking organization at the present time. [This comment has been written by a professional Yiddish (Slavic and French) linguist whose native language is Yiddish. He has taught authentic Yiddish to thousands of college students and was a Yiddish journalist for many years. ]