The original plan for A Song of Ice and FIre

[@olivergiggins7931]

No wonder he's struggling with Winds of Winter. He's trying to fit one book's story in one book, a task which has traditionally taken him five books.

[@Cherokeechuck9]

A feast for crows and a dance with dragons were supposed to be 1 book. And it's not even finished, it ends right before two huge battles. He's never finishing that shit

[@eyalsi1070]

He's not even done with the first "book". If Dany lands in Westeros before the end of Winds, I'll be shocked.

[@hmhmoinsdk]

at this point i just hope he leaves enough notes and drafts so someone else like e.g. Sanderson can finish the series

[@chrisdekopoore8483]

He will never finish the lasttwo books he has no reason to bother now. he can just enjoys his millions and when he pops his clogs they will get a ghostwriterto finishit according to the tvseries scripts

[@warrioremperor6320]

@@hmhmoinsdk Listen you are a loser fan GRRM can do whatever he wants

[@freemantle85]

It's 2045, George R.R. Martin says he is still working on Winds of Winter despite being dead for 10 years

[@davidhopper6119]

@@freemantle85 11 years left? You're more optimistic than I am.

[@JamesPerkins]

In 2045 an AI modeled on GRRM is still trying to finish Winds of Winter

[@JohnnyRaven69]

AI George 😏👌

[@paulchristensen7]

George’s spirit in 2045 says that he made less progress than in 2044, but reminds us that “less” is not “nothing”.

[@evelynn4273]

He's been too busy voting.

[@foragingadventures]

I am a time traveller from 2035 and Mr Martin wrote 17 more filler books and then died before finishing the last two.

[@slMagnvox]

how was life in America under the Kanye administration?

[@dough7612]

Did the prequel "we wuz Kangz"ever finally come to fruition?

[@BennyColyn]

Did he leave enough notes for Sanderson to finish the series?

[@SnakesAndFunerals]

Who wins the next Superbowl? I need the money, man.

[@jebbush1547]

are any of the filler books worth reading?

[@jaqjynx]

I imagine the walls of his spare room is just red string now, so much of it he’s unable to see the pictures and pieces of paper beneath.

[@GGJiaJia]

Oh nooooo 😂

[@maleboy3165]

And the pictures and paper beneath are the real story he meant to tell long forgotten underneath countless distractions

[@PumpkinHoard]

His original plan was to finish his story. Unfortunately, he changed that plan.

[@archibaldfencepost7696]

Ha! George yuh burnt!

[@joshuadiaz2614]

😂

[@a.munroe]

😭

[@ianhorne2884]

Beat me to it

[@ItsFreeVRealEstate]

Probably more accurate to say that the story changed as he was writing it, and he doesn't know how to write a satisfactory ending.

[@awesomehpt8938]

I’m sure the original plan is as half remembered as the long night or the origin of the Blackwood-Bracken feud.

[@lucasortiz8101]

Have we all accepted that we will never get a Dream of Spring?

[@nickim6571]

Many, many years ago.

[@sasukehyuuga755]

'Dream of Spring'!!????😮😊😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 You sweet summer child😢 We won't even see 'Winds of Winter'

[@GM_Lemmy]

At this point, I doubt we'll even see Winds of Winter, TBH... I lost any and all confidence in GRRM... And my respect for him is at an all-time low too. But that's alright... I don't really have any more enthusiasm or investment in the story anymore. The only entertainment it offers are the videos about the setting.

[@chadnorris8257]

We might, if a Ghostwriter picks it up. We got the Silmarillion via Tolkien's son, if I recall. George won't be the one to write it, though. Not unless he cranks it out within a year or two of finishing Winds, which would be a damn miracle.

[@DD-qo1tw]

We will likely get Winds of Winter and if we're lucky enough for George to live another 15 years he'll at some point during that finally admit he needs another book before Spring called "a time for wolves" or something. Depending on oour and George's luck we'll eventually get some percentage of that work released when he passes. At some point there will be published "Dreams of Spring" a collection that includes various outlines, summaries, or letters to his editors which give us some ideas if how he may have wrapped it up. It will also include some chapters he wrote for the series earlier but removed like Tyrion meeting the drowned god.

[@D2attemp]

George identifies with Samwell Tarly, but he truly embodies Doran Martell. A bunch of half baked plans and missed opportunities.

[@justatinyhalfling]

That is a pretty severe burn, made more painful by its accuracy.😅

[@nont18411]

And also Tywin Lannister. A guy always b*tch and moan about legacy but chooses not to do one thing that will secure it. Funny that Martin embodies two characters who are both miserable grumpy old men, isn’t it?

[@JooDawg]

Damn roasted his ass 😂

[@Tom-mk7nd]

The entitlement of some fans is baffling. Even if he doesn't get to finish the series. Can you not just be thankful for the amazing things he already wrote?

[@antonioporras3029]

​@Tom-mk7nd to be honest if Martin just came outright and said I'm done with the story I don't wanna write it anymore and I don't really want people after me to write it either. more people would just respect his honesty and move on it's not the fact that the stories aren't finished it that Martin keeps saying he's almost done or making progress hut then never pulls through and delivers and people do deserve to be upset by being constantly told it's almost done then delayed for years on end with side projects taking front and center.

[@judosailor610]

His style of writing (letting the story unveil itself to him as he writes) can make for some great stories. But it has an inherent flaw that we are now experiencing, which is that sometimes it can lead you down paths that are hard to recover from. And sometimes you're not sure where to go next.

[@utaannalinnemann8578]

Exactly. In literature terms, this kind of author is a "Pantser", opposit to the "Plotter" 😊. I can feel with him 😌!

[@johnvogt5847]

A good gardener plans before planting

[@jeffandjoannbauer9567]

And also prunes & weeds the garden. He doesn’t just let it run amok.

[@petercofrancesco9812]

The biggest surprise George could make would be if he actually finished the story before he died. Now that would truly be a shocker.

[@hariman7727]

It's cynical, but my expectation is that George Martin will release the books after he dies, or have somebody else hired to finish them after he dies because he doesn't want to finish the main book series. I think the ending of the television show was actually supposed to be the ending of the books, but the reaction to that showed him that he needs to either rewrite the ending or never release it so that he can keep milking the franchise.

[@petercofrancesco9812]

@@hariman7727 I actually have first hand experience with the process. I've been helping my mom write a book. The book was finished but needed an introduction, the book stalled for many years until recent when a friend was able to convince her the intro wasn't necessary. But the more time that went on the harder it is do something where there is an emotional or mental block. I don't know what block is in Martin's case whether the story has gotten so big the expectation of millions of fans so high, he's afraid he can't meet them. Or he maybe tired of the story feels it's a burden and wants to enjoy his remaining years. Martin strikes me someone who love building a world, creating new story lines and characters but doesn't enjoy the work of tying up lose ends and concluding a story. What ever the reason it's likely it will never be completed and I've made my peace with that. After all it's his world who am I to make a demand, but gosh darn it finish it!

[@Robert399]

@@hariman7727 I think the broad strokes of the endings will be the same but how George intends to get there is completely different. The show removed or changed a lot of plot points, which is fine but removed a lot of necessary pieces for George's intended ending. Also, I doubt George is just sitting on a finished manuscript BUT I do think his focus has shifted repeatedly to other projects (the history books and House of the Dragon for starters). I think he's hit a snag with how to reconcile the plan with how the series has exploded in size and hasn't committed to a solution yet. Idk if he ever will.

[@MycatTwinkie]

I would like to think GRRM saw how much fun we have theorising so he chose to just never end the story so we can theorise forever

[@CK-gt3yo]

@@MycatTwinkie bro they are unironically writing essays about renlys peach. Nobody is having fun, we are starving to death. The discourse around the books has grown as stale as a decade old bag of croutons.

[@inoshikachokonoyarobakayar2493]

​@@CK-gt3yo lol, not a bag of peaches?

[@Alter_Ion]

If only George had had an absolutely ruthless editor at the begining then he may have ended up with a story he could actually finish

[@hariman7727]

He has had 15 years. There are people who have built careers in writing in that time, and all he has done is milk the franchise by writing prequels and side books and television shows and work on a video game where I honestly can't tell where his influence is because from software always made games with a broken world.

[@SiqueScarface]

@@hariman7727 And this is a problem exactly how?

[@hariman7727]

@@SiqueScarface it's an issue because people who defend George Martin claim that elden ring is only great because of him forever and always because he's perfect and can do no wrong. But the evidence I see shows that any good writer could fill in the backstory of Elden ring and do just as well, because it follows the souls formula of a dark and broken world with people who are struggling to survive.

[@SiqueScarface]

@@hariman7727 No, my question was why it is a problem for you of G.R.R.Martin milking the franchise. It's his franchise. He can milk it as much as he desires.

[@hariman7727]

@@SiqueScarface It's a combination of the lack of integrity to not finish the main series, and the fact that the audience George Martin and Patrick rothfuss brought into epic Fantasy don't want to read new epic Fantasy series unless they are already completed. So we've had about a generation of epic Fantasy writers who literally need to write a full series before they can get published or any traction, unless they already have an audience from something else or they come into epic Fantasy from a different genre. It's not simply George martin, but the effect he's had on the market.

[@theguyfromsaturn]

"Can he fit what remains in just two more books". Ah, you sweet summer child. You still have faith that any of those will be published before we die. I have made my peace with the notion that I will be put to rest without having known how RR Martin meant his story to end.

[@carastone3473]

😢

[@CK-gt3yo]

thats what you get for being a nerd and reading

[@ThommyofThenn]

How old are u?

[@Prodigi50]

Shouldn’t you be worried about him dying first?

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@Prodigi50 eh all those remarks have been said a million times now and grew stale long ago it has to be said

[@tokyo_taxi7835]

George needs to start adding trellises and irrigation to his garden if he wants to be finished. Some structure and planning is important when you have a story to tell, especially as one as massive as this.

[@seanpinkey2188]

Game of Thrones: " Winter is Coming" George: " And so is my book"

[@danieln.2590]

highly doubtful :(

[@TurquoiseStar17]

I've heard about this original outline from a few videos now. Yours is by far the best for laying it all out. Excellent work with the visuals.

[@Scientist_Salarian]

No one is upset he changed his original plans- that happens almost always in writing. People are upset that he doesn’t seem to be making an effort to finish the series. For the last 13 years, his blog has demonstrated that he will take any and all excuses, no matter how minor, to avoid writing Ice and Fire.

[@petercofrancesco9812]

Reminds me a bit of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who famously killed off Sherlock so the public would stop pestering him to write more books. Clearly he has lost the desire to finish writing it. Too bad he couldn't be up front about his decision. I get the feeling he altered his plan years ago when he allowed HBO to finish the story for him. The problem with his gardening approach is the difficulty to tying it all tie it all back together.

[@wyattcole5452]

The fact is he wrote too big of a story for him to complete and write the way he writes. There’s too much, he’s struggling. He’s not giving up, most likely, that’s not usually how writer’s block works.

[@notforwantoftrying1]

He recently blamed fascism for not finishing TWOW

[@MrBell-iq3sm]

@@petercofrancesco9812 To be fair to Doyle, during his times, communicating with the public was not as simple as it is today and regardless of how many Sherlock stories he wrote, and he wrote plenty, he was pressured to do another. His stories also allowed for a sudden stop without compromising the entire series. What did A Song of Ice and Fire ultimately amount to if the series suddenly stops? All these set-ups and plots with no pay off.

[@petercofrancesco9812]

​@@MrBell-iq3sm He's 75 years old and lacks the desire and energy to finish the series. He started GOT almost 35 years ago and he's no longer wants to write. He's not the Doyle but they both share something grew to this giant cultural phenomena.

[@Dizom123]

Thanks!

[@bingobongo5455]

They call it a “dream of spring” cuz you have to be asleep to believe it’s coming.

[@londomolari5715]

Here's a horror story-GRRM hires Brian HErbert and Kevin J. Anderson to finish the story after he dies.

[@SeanCMonahan]

GRRM hires D and D who ran the TV show once it ran ahead of the books. They print the screenplays for the final few seasons as the final two books. GRRM ends the story by killing off the book series.

[@holliegould3463]

​@SeanCMonahan i hope both sides of your pillow are warm, that you will always find a melted ice-cube when wearing socks, and that your belt loops get caught on every possible door handle

[@tomwantshelp]

David Benioff wrote a genuinely fantastic novel, City of Thieves. It’s very different to ASOIAF, but it’s clear he’s a talented novelist.

[@SeanCMonahan]

@@holliegould3463The future is dark and full of terrible writings 😅

[@pwelsh6501]

I believe he said it’s never to be finished by another else

[@Chad-xh8zs]

“Gardeners” usually pull weeds and trim overgrowth

[@42crazyguy]

I guess George just isnt a very good gardener, forgot to water the characters, let them die, and is trying to distract us while we look for them.

[@Robert399]

Hmm yeah idk how this is gonna fit into 2 books. Surely Dany must come to Westeros in the next book (which she isn't ready to do yet), and the Others must invade based on title alone (you can't have them sit out "The Winds of Winter" and invade in "A Dream of Spring"-although of course he could rename it). But that's a lot to fit in 1 book, especially with multiple viewpoint characters: Daenerys can only have so many chapters. At the very least Dany's invasion can't be a resolved threat before the Others attack. This is unlikely but possibly Dany could stay in Essos during the Long Night (good chance he'd want a PoV character there) and her return to Westeros is the renewal. But idk, that feels too "chosen hero" for GRRM.

[@chrisfraser5088]

I have hope we’ll get Winds of Winter. But there is absolutely no chance we ever get Dream of Spring. George has clearly lost his desire to finish his story. He’s literally published 2 books in 24 years. Even if he lives for another 24 years, we’ll never see Winter melt away into Spring 😢

[@Dianbler]

Yep, we will probably end in a eternal winter ending.

[@Lilitha11]

Yeah he didn't plan it out and it got away from him. It a nightmare book.

[@mancerayder8010]

Someone will pick it up and butcher the ending when he dies. Don't worry.

[@BigMikeMcBastard]

@@mancerayder8010 We've all seen season 8 of the show. If Gurm doesn't finish the series, that'll pretty much be the canon ending.

[@Angie9177-k9l]

really getting the feeling GRRM is afraid to finish WoW and DoS 😢

[@michelmorio8026]

Except for Ned and the Prologue and Epilogue POV‘s, he doesn’t really kill any POV characters… or brings them back in a certain way later in the story 😂

[@TheCow798]

I can’t believe we missed out on that love triangle between Master Pycelle, Fat Belwas, and Arya (that little strumpet).

[@MikaelKKarlsson]

I wouldn't mind at least a short story of the life of old Nan. ☺️

[@jamessmithson-br7rm]

Don’t tempt GRRM, please don’t go giving him ideas until he finishes the main books

[@sargonixofur1234]

He would rather write about a kitchen boy in the Red Keep boiling an egg than finish the Asoiaf.

[@BradloRaul]

George has been writing for TV for as long as many of us have been alive. That demands stories that are delivered on time and that fit within a very specific time frame. He can be more disciplined, he just doesn’t wanna. Whether that’s ethically right or wrong..?

[@Ronfost89]

George is no gardener, a real gardener knows when you need to trim and pull weeds.

[@bfromm4936]

A garden is never actually finished, so...

[@Ronfost89]

@@bfromm4936 Except that's not true. You can finish making your garden by not expanding or adding things. What you are describing is tending to what you have, which is something GRRM also fails at.

[@BenersantheBread]

Wow I might have actually liked Daenerys if she was more like the original draft version. As is I have no idea why so many people are fans of this character who has had everything given to her on a silver platter. She lucked out on the pretty rocks she was given actually being dragon eggs (even though the book itself mentions that most dragon eggs are fakes) and everything since then has been her having the easiest bloody time of all the perspective characters since people bend the knee solely because she has dragons.

[@kineticstar]

I will be reincarnated and in a retirement home before GRR Martin completes The Game of Thrones books.

[@jovetj]

How about when the sun rises in the west?

[@pathutchison7688]

“Winds of Winter” may very well come out at some point. But “A Dream of Spring” will almost certainly never be written. At least, not by Martin, would would make in non-cannon in my mind.

[@Ripper069]

I really love this channel. Always interesting to hear your thoughts on my favorite stories!

[@FloridaManVal]

I firmly believe he was nearly done with winds of winter then he watched the fans reaction to the final season of GoT and realized he had to make some changes to distance from the series’ failure. At this rate his estate will be fighting over the rights before we ever read it.

[@Lilitha11]

From what I heard, he basically did finish it then rewrote the entire thing again. It is hard to say why though.

[@jovetj]

I really hope he doesn't let that affect how _he_ wants his story to go. The books are far richer and far better than the TV series. Fans of the show may feel short changed, but that does not mean the books will disappoint. No pressure, George.

[@luxintenebris1776]

We can only hope that Brandon Sanderson is willing to pick up the pieces and finish the story for us.

[@j-rey-]

I don't think so. People hated how the TV show ended because D&D wrote it terribly. The bullet points themselves were fine (also, D&D cut out most of the magic stuff, so the show watchers didn't even get to see 50% of the ending). One of Dany's dragons is stolen; another of her dragons dies, maybe 2 or all 3; Jon is resurrected and leaves the Night's Watch; Jon becomes a dragon rider; Jon is Rhaegar's son; Dany loses her mind and burns King's Landing; Jon kills her; Jojen dies for Bran, with Bran probably eating him; Bran messes up Hodor and sacrifices him; Bran beomes king; Shireen is sacrificed for a blood magic ritual; Sansa brings about Littlefinger's demise; Aegon didn't exist and thus he, and the upcoming Blackfyre rebellion, is likely a red herring and merely an obstacle for Dany in the books; Varys had less to do in the show given his main plan was cut; Barristan eventually dies fighting for Dany; Dany returns to Vaes Dothrak and unites all the Dothraki into her Kahlasar; Tyrion joins Dany as an advisor; Pod gets laid 🤣; Jaime fights in the Long Night and eventually dies with Cersei (though I argue he will kill her); Craster's sons are used as sacrifices to somehow benefit the Others; Ramsey kills Roose; Ramsey likely dies in the upcoming battles, possibly by a alliance of Stannis, Jon Snow, and the Manderlys; the entirety of the Frey house is either crippled or destroyed, maybe by Lady Stoneheart, the Brotherhood without Banners, and Arya; Cersei eventually takes out the Tyrells and High Sparrow; Theon sacrifices himself; etc. Aforementioned, that's not even including the magical elements, like the REAL resolution with the Others (no way Arya is just going to stab one and they all die); the Faceless Men and Arya; Euron's plans; Sam, Marwyn, Sarella, and the glass candle; Benerro, Moqorro, and the Red Priests; Melisandre; how Bran's powers actually affect the story; Quaithe; Lightbringer; maybe even Dawn, the ancestral sword of House Dayne. There is so much left out of the show that made its conclusion abysmal and incomplete.

[@FloridaManVal]

@@Lagirlanimalsandscenery I think so too. It would’ve likely mad much more sense over time as we watch Dany slowly devolve They should’ve done ten seasons and stuck to the lore like glue.

George R.R. Martin was furious that they leaked that stuff, too. He said he felt betrayed because what he wrote was not intended for public consumption. Most people don't think it's a big deal, but for a writer it is. Writers don't like for people to see their unpolished works/ideas. This is why so many writers don't let anyone read their writings until they're finished. Exceptions are made for editors, publishers, and the like only because they must be. When they allow for these exceptions, writers are placing their trust in these people, and they rightfully expect their wishes to be respected. So, I totally get where he's coming from.

[@MrNicoJac]

I get his frustration. But I also think he causes far more than he suffered himself. So in this case, I think it's fair. (and it's nice they bleeped a paragraph to not tip his hand - arguably a kindness he lost any right to)

[@Void7.4.14]

​@@MrNicoJac He doesn't owe us anything. They do owe him privacy.

[@johnpauldriskill8737]

Nah that’s dumb asl

[@ulvetid.01]

​@@Void7.4.14 Writers owe their audience a conclusion. Shut up with that reddit blather.

[@Beth-zs2jr]

@@ulvetid.01 writers owe absolutely nothing to anybody. the same as any kind of creative medium, people do what they do for the love of it. the number of books he's written in 30 years is actually pretty good for most authors, especially when you consider he got dragged into the makings of multiple TV shows, a game, many projects that have been left to die, and probably a dozen other things we've never been told about. If you want to read a series with an ending, go find one. Until you've gone through the career he's had, at his age, you have no right to decide what he owes to the world I've read plenty of series where the author stopped halfway, or died before they ended, and I'm not upset with them. They brought something beautiful into this world, and whether their stories were finished after they died or were left where they were, that's fine. I know of authors who've taken breaks from writing specifically because of people on the internet like those in this comment section, who see fit to bully an author for doing something other than finishing a series. Authors don't spend every minute of every day writing. They have lives, they take time off. The ones publishing every couple years are either paying people to do the writing, or true exceptions to the rule.

[@OdinAllfather123]

That original plan sounds awesome actually, three distinct subplots each with one book dedicated to them. Instead the War of the Five Kings got dragged out and filled with all kinds of unnecessary side plots, meaning Jon and Dany have to sit around doing side quests. It also left people with the (false) impression that the series is about whoever sits on the Iron Throne in the end.

[@peternakitch4167]

As a teenager I read his novel Fevre dream (published in the late ‘70’s or early ‘80s) and enjoyed it; as an adult I started reading Song of Fire and Ice and gave up - too much padding/filler and I found myself flipping through the books. There are parts I enjoyed and some good writing but most of it just rambled on and on. He really needed a ruthless editor. As for finishing it, I think he has moved on, is 75 years old, and I don’t think he is really that fussed. And perhaps, it having made him a ton of money and fame doesn’t need it anymore.

[@ghyslainabel]

To add to this, the story already has an ending in the TV show. I am guessing GRRM is not interested in writing a second ending that will be compared to the show.

[@wyattcole5452]

Have you seen him talk about it? It sounds like he racks his brain over it and still can’t get much more than a few pages in a week.

[@wyattcole5452]

@@ghyslainabelhe’s said his ending isn’t going to be changed because of the show

[@armintargaryen9216]

The worst thing Asoiaf could ever do is appeal to non-asoiaf fans. Just read something else, dude

[@andredornelles8014]

Asking what was the original plan for ASOIAF is like asking what was Arya Stark’s original plan for her life. Let’s just say that some things happened to change them

[@peterdixon7734]

She originally wanted to do a gender studies and ballet foundation course.

[@ClockMonsterLA]

I seriously doubt Martin will live long enough to complete the series.

[@Dumbledore6969x]

The good news is that AI will soon be able to analyze the books he has written and then complete it fairly nicely.

[@s4m1r_65]

​@@Dumbledore6969xit already does that.

[@Dumbledore6969x]

@@s4m1r_65 soon with more confidence

[@Lilitha11]

Everyone thinks that. And it isn't like people think he will die soon either. They all think he could live to 100 and still wouldn't finish it.

[@kennyjoseph1144]

@@Dumbledore6969x AI doesn’t have the mind of GRRM. An AI ASOIAF book wouldn’t even be half as good as George writing it. It would probably just be bad because AI probably can’t capture the meaning and symbolism that George conveys in his writing.

[@robertfitzjohn4755]

As a contrast, consider Stephen R Donaldson's approach when he decided to write The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. He set himself a schedule of three years per book, making a total of twelve years, and he stuck to it. He didn't involve himself in any TV shows (though I doubt he was asked anyway), nor did he write any other books (he even stopped his 'Gradual Interview' Q&A blog). To be honest, it's a pity he didn't allow time for an editor to read the books and slim them down, but he was worried he wouldn't get the series finished. He did leave notes for another author to complete the books if he couldn't. I look forward to reading the rest of A Song of Ice and FIre eventually ... assuming I live that long!

[@crowemagnum1337]

I think it's cute that you think the final two books will come out. It's not going to happen. No Doors of Stone either.

[@sebastianholden4759]

Which plan? The Fat Man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? -ADWD The Lost Lord Grrm breaking the 4th Wall

[@ak-skeleton-7195]

Could you imagine how awkward the love triangle between Jon Arya and Tyrion would be if adapted into a show or even in the books

[@jovetj]

You _know_ some "adult actors" are going to play that out in at least one way...

[@emperorpalpatine4681]

To finish it

[@Higfoot]

“How far from that has he drifted?” To not finishing it

[@ZeusMcCormick]

That ain’t happening

[@devschlong]

LMAO

[@brandonmunsen6035]

Jk

[@wyattcole5452]

@@ZeusMcCormickby him

[@pandawarriah]

we MIGHT MAYBE IF WE ARE LUCKY get winds of winter. but there wont be any spring.

[@steveywonder1990]

We will forever live in the land of always winter. ❄️☃️

[@wyattcole5452]

By him

[@jmace2424]

GRRM: I’m a gardener not an outliner. How’s that working out for you, George?

[@MrBell-iq3sm]

He is a gardener, who refused to cut the plants growing in his garden and now has trouble navigating through it.

[@Schattenmaler]

I think its been working great for him.

[@svsv1191]

He's been rich for ages he's done with writing

[@KnightOwl1881]

Has Robert ever spoken about why he doesn’t cover Brandon Sanderson ? Seems like the Cosmere would be right up his alley for channel content

[@MakingSpiritualityReal]

“I want the reader to feel like no one is ever completely safe” well even the TV show succeeded in that

[@gottenm9106]

I think the problem is feast for Crows. The whole book (except Euron arc) feels so unnecessary and unrelated to the plot. Instead of continue with the story, he created a dozen more plotlines in this book which the vast majority of them are not important and honestly not interesting too. Jamie's arc on the riverlands, Brienne's arc (which I skipped completely) and also Danny's story in Mereen in DwD - he should have neglected those, and went straight to the main plot with Danny's invasion

[@kullen2042]

I love the idea of a relationship between Arya and Tyrion. Their characters (at least as we know them) are both one of my favorites. I am not sure how theyd work together, but I'd be absolutely there for this pairing.

[@Shocked-Face]

I am impressed I managed to guess 4/5, with not enough time to guess Arya, though she would have been my next guess.

[@MONROE711]

When I read the first one as a kid, my paperback copy had the next 2 books in the then intended trilogy (and supposedly whole series) listed on the back cover. I also remember him doing an interview saying he wouldn't be one of those authors that dragged series out for decades, I assumed he was taking a jab at Robert Jordan. I do not mean this in a cruel way, but I now do not expect him to finish the series before he dies, which is hopefully many many years from now. He has so many projects he's working on and he's 75 now. Realistically winds of winter is not coming out any time soon, and there'll be at least one more book after that.

[@lyannatargaryen3223]

In some of the early chapters of GOT, characters have certain characteristics/stories that are abandoned. Tyrion is an acrobat. In Dany's first chapter, her brother and Illyrio keep talking about how she looks like a princess. They say it several times as if she's not really a princess, but later she hatched dragons and she has the Targaryen features. Was there a possible pseudo-dany plot similar to Faegon? I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. Thanks.

[@PrincessToyNerd]

This man just lives in the river of all our tears 😢

[@whatsername123]

Turns out, our tears are the magic that fuels the storm of the Night King. Without our tears he doesn't exist and George can't finish the story. It's a snake eating its own tail

[@Wolfeson28]

Unfortunately, I think there's another wrinkle/wrench that's been thrown into GRRM's (non-)plans at a much later stage. I've speculated that GRRM's ending (to whatever degree it had coalesced) was much closer to what we saw on the show than he's willing to admit. So when the show's ending got so much backlash, I think GRRM felt compelled to change his book ending to move further away from what the show did, which I believe accounts for a lot of the last five years' worth of delays for TWoW (holy shit, has it really been five years?). With as interconnected as his events and plotlines are, any one change he wants to make probably requires at least 5-6 other changes to other plotlines that are impacted by it.

[@Shinooobi211]

The problem with that is that in reality what made S8 so bad was the execution of all of those plots. If Bran becomes king in the books, if Dany goes mad and burns KL, then it would be well earned and ACTUALLY make sense in the books in one way or the other. If he is now changing that just because of the show, then he made the wrong decision. People hated S8 mostly because the pace was horrible and none of the events had their time to grow etc.

[@crabbit101]

I think we can safely say that he will never finish ASOIAF, and he knows it.

[@jovetj]

I can't blame him. So much pressure, so much to keep track of, so much detail in the story... it must be positively overwhelming.

[@crabbit101]

@@jovetj True, but he’s taking the piss now and this problem is entirely of his own making. He shouldn’t allow himself to keep getting sidetracked by other projects. I doubt he’ll want his legacy to be that of a man who couldn’t (wouldn’t?) complete his own story.

[@FilmCram]

George really laid out his 3 book plan then got hit with Zeno's Dichotomy paradox as he tried to write it! XD

[@ryanboggs5919]

Glad I clicked just to see that Robert Frost poem. That was good

[@miguelsandoval7558]

It’s time to start harvesting the garden George. If Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring ever come out. I hope it’s just a clash of stories coming together 100mph. But probably not.

[@basementsnaxx]

Might just get a one pager for the last two books, "Jon woke up, and it was all a dream".

[@JoseCinnamon]

If it is ever released it will be like a dark joke. Having a 15 year gap from the last book is surreal.

[@jamesfallahi]

Homie there’s two books left 😭

[@JoseCinnamon]

​@@jamesfallahi We've been two books away from finishing the series since book 1

[@jamesfallahi]

@@JoseCinnamonyeaaah I realize now that I misread your comment. Thought you meant the next book is the last. 😅 My b

[@JoseCinnamon]

@@jamesfallahi my English sure hasn't helped

[@beatrixwickson8477]

Maybe he should write his autobiography instead and call it A Dream of A Dream of Spring.

[@Progger11]

I'm sick of people who hated the way the series ended claiming that the "real" ending in the books is going to be so much better because GRRM "knows what he's doing" and isn't a hack like the series writers. As if he's given them any good reason to suspect that he's even close to writing his "superior" version of the ending.

[@Kaxcer]

Grrm told HBO the key plotlines anyway, it would be a similar ending.

[@Paulovlyra]

The TV Show ending is exactly what he planned for the end of the series, I believe

[@tizza963]

Your voice is so rich. I don’t even care about ASOIAF but I could listen to this for hours 😂

[@MrBell-iq3sm]

2:52 No he hasn't. There is exactly one POV character, which died in the books, without coming back. This is one of Martin's biggest problems, because he keeps adding new characters, without removing the old, which lead to a story too big to handle comfortably.

[@unrealsimon93]

I'm guessing book 6 and 7 would kill off a bunch of them.

[@MrBell-iq3sm]

@@unrealsimon93 Only that we will not see book 6 and 7, at least not by Martin, because they are too much work, thanks to all the plots and sub-plots he set up.

[@eyalsi1070]

TLDR: Ain't no way He finishes the story with Just two books.

[@gregcampwriter]

What to expect from the last two books: We might get the sixth book, finished by Brandon Sanderson--or Stephen King, since King and Martin seem to like each other. Book Seven will likely require someone willing to write the book from Martin's notes.

[@camotophat]

The ending was totally what they had in the TV show. He saw how everyone hated it, and now he's trying to rewrite it before he eats himself to death.

[@wyattcole5452]

He said that’s not what happened but aight

[@camotophat]

@@wyattcole5452 Dude, I've seen the vid where he flat out says, "Yeah, what they made is pretty much what I had planned." ai isn't that good yet. I promise its real.

[@wyattcole5452]

@@camotophat dude I’ve literally seen the vid where he says he won’t be changing the ending based on the reaction to the show 🤭😘

[@MrBell-iq3sm]

Blaming the TV show is a cheap excuse, which not only ignores how the book series went, but also how bad the show was as a whole. Such a behavior suggests, that everything was fine until the ending, which isn't true.

[@camotophat]

@@MrBell-iq3sm Given that George's primary income through the 80's and 90's was being a tv show writer, how exactly is that a cheap excuse? Most film and tv writers have the beginning and the end of their story in mind from the start, and just fill in the middle as they go along.

[@emangination]

We will get Mad Queen, Bran the Broken and Night King stabbed by Arya in the books. And GRRM will reveal that he is indeed the Great Other. The End.

[@EdwardNewgate58]

Mad Queen, and Bran the Broken will definitely be canon. Apparently there's a rumor that some of the things we see in the later seasons, will eventually be in the books, because George already gave the info to D&D. So may also get Shireen's sacrifice, Jon's resurrection, and a few of the other controversial moments as well. But, at least there will be better build up, and better wrting to lead up to those moments rather than things just happening for the sake of plot. Assuming, we ever get those books, of course.

[@lakrids-pibe]

May he live to be 145 years old

[@xninja83x67]

Then he'd nearly be done with the winds of winter

[@richardhollis3783]

There are a few... relics in the first books as well. Jamie is cold and gets his minions to cripple Ed Stark. The direwolves seem to hate Tyrion when he visits Winterfell (presumably a holdover from when the plan was that Tyrion would capture and burn Winterfell). There are also a couple of inconsistencies from when there was a plan to put in a five year gaps between books 3 and 4 which got scrapped eventually.

[@Godzilla00X]

Sansa going all in betraying the starks for the lannisters is interesting idea

[@froschkenig]

It's interesting to see how he changed his mind on things.

[@sofaking1627]

We've all collectively begun to bargain. "Just give us WoW even if we never get A dream of spring" Bargaining is the stage of grief we're one 🤣

[@claire2088]

I really wish that he was able to finish his stories, I don't mind if I don't get a conclusion for a series that is just following a character, but when the series is building up to something it's very frustrating to never get the final conclusion. I don't restrict myself to finished series (because that's rough on authors, and I want to reach bookhalla iykyk) but once an author's done something like this I generally don't trust them to finish a series so I wouldn't start a series until it's complete. (I'd understand not finishing a series if it's not performing well enough/health or life issues show up etc, but if an author gives up on a series where the whole thing is building towards something I'm avoiding everything else like the plague)

[@slMagnvox]

An interesting case study is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. After sprawling his story a bit after book 7 or 8, he passed away before it could be finished. He did however leave extensive notes and his widow Harriet & estate hired Brandon Sanderson to complete it. And with a decent result to my mind

[@claire2088]

@@slMagnvox Yeah I read that! It was so kind of him to finish it for us even if he couldn't complete it personally 😭 I'd have totally understood if he'd said to fans 'sorry it's not happening', but that we got a finished series means so much

[@slMagnvox]

@@claire2088 yeah, all things considered it was a very satisfying conclusion ;P

[@N0madic71]

Unfortuantely, at this point, I think this living thing, The Winds of Winter, will out live the author before publication

[@JD-qq8fz]

It would be so funny if he finally releases the last books and they are simply a strict novelization of the end of the HBO series, womp woooomp

[@arttheclown1163]

I remember this guy but I've forgotten his works.

[@barbarabenoit3667]

I find it interesting, that the outline had no mention of religion in westeros. The worship in front of the weirwoods, the beliefs of the northernes, the drowned god, the followers of Rollor, the worship of the many faced god, the fanaticism of the sparrows and the decadence of the sevens official representatives, the belief in logic of the masters of the citadel and their fight against magic. - Beliefs and spiritual practises and experiences influence the characters and change the story a lot.

[@Fishster]

11:00 not 3 decades of writing, a couple of decades writing and over a decade not writing.

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

At this point feeding everything existing and major upcoming planned plot points into a Large-Language Model should at least produce something significantly better than season 8 of GoT.

[@jimkendall7633]

Love your videos! Were you planning on still doing Rings of Power episode recaps? I really enjoyed those last season

[@itaya8]

Robert, I began reading ASOIAF because I was so intrigued by your Jojen's paste video. I recently finished the series and was hoping to see all the old videos re-uploaded so I can watch them really knowing what's up. Thank you for all of the amazing work throughout the years!

[@QurttoRco]

Changes to Jaime are well placed

[@freemantle85]

I love the channel. Would you ever consider doing a video on The Night Long, whether in Westeros or further away like in Yi Ti? Have you listened to the fan audio dramas Game of Thrones Season 8 Redux or Robert's Rebellion and if so what did you thing? Finally, what other fantasy franchise would you make videos about? I personally enjoy His Dark Materials and Harry Potter, but I understands that its about what franchises can gain the most traffic.

[@NeurosenkavalierEmilSinclair]

Honestly - I think WoW is already finished 95% and could be published with some minor editing if he died suddenly. But I don't believe in a dream of spring. It's just sad. And honestly, there are people out there who could help him connect 80-90% of the plots for a somewhat plausible ending; but to do that he has to stop watching his plants grow but put the work in to harvest like a gardener would.

[@TimelordPrime]

If George R.R. Martin started to do Cocaine (like Stephen King used to do) we would have the next 2 books in a few months.

[@Brighton24601]

9:25 huh, is that what Robert Frost looked like? I always imagined he looked more like Hemingway.

[@OO-mk1xf]

Home before Christmas boys...

[@JakeSezz]

11:16 Let’s face it, Robert: you coulda just stopped at “he’s not finishing the story” 😬😂

[@Jebbtube]

I wonder if we can get any hints as to the plot ahead in SoIaF from what he gave us in Elden Ring.

[@Zadrigo]

To think how surprised we were with the stupidity of later seasons of Game of Thrones series. This sounds far, far worse. No wonder George R.R. has problems with books because obviously he thought the ending of the series is exactly what he wanted and he thought it was genius, but now he saw reaction of the fans and struggles how to change the trajectory of events.

[@michaeljw3602]

Absolutely cannot see him finishing the series

[@Archius9]

Would be awesome if someone capable could write these 3 books for us to enjoy as an AU to ASOIAF

[@ians7184]

A Song of Ice and Fire is the best book series without a beginning or an ending

[@mandowarrior123]

It's meant to be inspired by historical fiction and the war of the roses, it certainly was the intent to not really have a beginning or end. However he's had a lot of pressure on him to make one, and nobody liked his first attempt.

[@g_rec_attempt6782]

I couldn't imagine myself accepting the legacy, that I was the guy who never finished the most 2nd most successful fantasy series. Despite the fact, that I had plenty of time to do so.b

[@marksheen4873]

Finishing it

[@aiman1562]

Is there a naration of released chapter of Winds of Winter?