The Orphic Mysteries and Ancient Astrology

Discussing the ancient Greek mystical tradition known as Orphism, and how it influenced ancient astrology, with historian of ancient astrology and magic Kristin Mathis, and astrologers Drew Levanti and Chris Brennan.
Orphism is an ancient Greek mystery cult founded by a legendary figure named Orpheus, who is said to have been a poet, musician, and mystical figure.
It is a mystery religion because members of the Orphic cult had to be initiated, and were sworn to secrecy with oaths.
The Orphics believed the soul was immortal and subject to reincarnation, and part of the goal of becoming initiated into the mysteries was to help ensure a better life in the future.
There was an emphasis on remembering one’s divine origin, and the use of poetry and music as ways of accessing the divine.
The study of this topic is important in terms of ancient astrology because Orpheus is listed as one of the legendary founders of Hellenistic astrology by Firmicus Maternus, and there are traces of Orphic influence in astrological texts by figures like Valens and Critodemus.
Kristin and Drew's work focuses in particular on the Orphic Hymns, and during the course of the episode we read some excerpts from some of Kristin's translations of the hymns for the planets and the stars, which invoke the deities associated with those celestial bodies.
Join us for a captivating exploration of Orphism and its enduring influence on the rich tapestry of ancient astrology.
Kristin and Drew's Websites
www.kristinmathis.com
archeastrology.com
This is episode 443 of The Astrology Podcast:
theastrologypodcast.com/2024/...
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#TheAstrologyPodcast #Orphism
Timestamps
00:00:00 Intro
00:00:47 What is Orphism?
00:02:25 Kristin's background
00:05:40 Drew's background
00:08:38 Orphic Hymns overview
00:10:25 Who is Orpheus?
00:20:34 Parallels between Hermes and Orpheus
00:27:14 The cosmos is alive
00:33:13 Macrocosm and microcosm
00:37:31 Other mystery cults
00:46:00 Astral temple traditions
00:48:49 Purpose of Hermeticism
00:49:25 The unspeakable
00:54:27 Ecstatic states
00:59:13 Orphic mysteries vs. other mysteries
01:10:41 The Sun and the soul
01:19:38 Plato's Myth of Er and reincarnation
01:24:21 Milky Way gates
01:32:41 Pythagoras
01:34:07 Hymn of the Stars
01:58:26 Time frame of Orpheus Hymns
02:10:33 Hymn to Ares-Mars
02:29:15 The hymns influenced astrology
02:34:56 Music, numbers, and ratio
02:37:26 The magic of the hymns for today
02:40:54 Astrology as a language
02:42:16 Early astrology texts were written in verse
02:49:43 Orphic hymns enliven astrology
02:52:10 Kristin and Drew's websites, Substack, and class
02:54:47 Kristin's future book on Orpheus Hymns
02:57:34 Closing credits

[@ClaimedParadise]

Love seeing an iconic graduate from the Haus of Coppock love both of these occult icons

[@ClaimedParadise]

WE NEED AN UPDATED MAGIC POD

[@lyndaweston]

Possibly my all time favourite confab. I would just like to bring up one possibility for the seven layers pre-spheres of planets. In several Indigenous cultures including Australian aboriginals the seven spheres first appear as the seven colours of a rainbow. All distinct but of the same. And obviously of a time period far, far away in time from the period you're exploring. Through the same 'trick' of light refraction the same colours can be seen in water and snake skins, inside shells etc. connecting sky and earth in the all.

[@cristicion3333]

This was such a lovely conversation. I feel like I’m living in the Golden Age listening to you all. Thank you!

[@amberford6892]

I want Kristin and Drew to read me to sleep every night lol

[@TaurusVenus]

As someone who recites Orphic hymns daily, and who is studying ancient astrology AND ancient Greek (with a focus on the hymns with my Greek tutor), I couldn't be more excited for this conversation! 🙏🌟

[@katiekatsaropoulos620]

q😊qqqqqqqqqqqq

[@katiekatsaropoulos620]

😊

[@katiekatsaropoulos620]

😊qqq

[@katiekatsaropoulos620]

qqqq

[@juliaanadam7762]

What a beautiful episode

[@alabaster2163]

The gods are energetic signatures to envoke to achieve ones goals... highest good of all of course. 😘 Thank you for doing this... its just fantastic that this is coming into more modern main stream conversations.

[@leviashanken2506]

Thank you, Kristen, Drew, and Chris - very awesome!

[@user-ul9is6nn1v]

I love the planetary Orphic hymns which are adressed to the Theoi. Later in time Suhrawardi wrote hymns to the planets though his hymns tend to be more monotheistic.

[@adamthomasadamthomas]

Very excited for Kristin’s full translation and commentary! And looking forward to the forthcoming publication. So much great insight in this episode. Looking forward to deep dive into defining orphism!

[@user-bz8kz9tt8s]

I am a big fan of their ability to make such an abstract concept understood over a long explanation. The sides of a dye’s relation to the hymns was great.

[@CatepillarChrysalisButterfly]

This interview is pure gold. 🙏

[@healersspeak3362]

Oh Chris, i really appreciate your work and your guests work. But i am telling you that i would love to read the Orphic hymns. I am a Greek astrologer and i was wondering when ine would do an episode like this. I do believe as s Native is worth looking at my suggestion. The Spirit and intonation “would be happy “. Euxaristo!

[@katecherne3113]

Wonderful episode. Thanks Kristin and Drew for your work.

[@leviashanken2506]

@1:06 Valens' Orphic quotes. @1:34 Orphic hymn to the stars

[@judemcdougall9504]

Thanks Chris, Kristen & Drew

[@JSBallard]

This is fantastic. More of this please.

[@OKEAHKPACA-pd1gl]

I LOVE listening to this channel. Thanks!

[@asdfghjklbb]

i love the dice metaphor tysm

[@SueB.-ky9gr]

Wisdom lineage ,thankyou everyone this was pure brilliance 🙏

[@lynnmcmvt1815]

Excellent!! So glad you covered this topic.

[@aurissolaris]

What an extraordinary episode!

[@Grace-lw4hd]

This was an amazing episode! I’ve listened to it twice - 💕💕💕💕💕💕fantastic ! I can’t wait to dig deeper! Thank you so much Chris and to both of your extremely knowledgeable guests! 💕💕💕👍💕💕

[@ghellag]

Another exciting episode, thank you, Chris for the devoted work as usual. Hi from the lands of Thracia, hi from Bulgaria. There are seeds already here, especially from your work, Chris, that we are trying to plant neatly and grow again for Hellenistic astrology. As well as in Greece, in Bulgaria are some of the very special places and artifacts that are interesting to be seen.

[@marcion6049]

Amazing! So deep and clear vision of ancient understanding of cosmos and soul.

[@princessedelarue1989]

I loved this episode so much! Learned a lot, will be re-listening for sure.

[@beendip1977]

I love Kristin, yay!

[@kimsastro-healing108]

This is Amrita Nectar from the Gods! 😋 🙏 ❤ 🌟

[@ElizaEtoile]

The cool glass of water my soul needed today..truly profound and inspirational 🥹🤍💙🤍 thank you all so much for this episode!

[@healersspeak3362]

Congratulations! Finally to the beginning. Thank you 🙏🏽

[@wanderingsoulenterprises5564]

So interesting- thank you!

[@reginabaldwin7543]

Maybe the seven belts referred to the orbits of the 7 planets.

[@alisonbarrett163]

This is one of my all time favorite episodes. Thank you all so much!

[@user-hr7il1cu3j]

Awesome episode! Thank you guys for sharing your knowledge

[@cynthiacornell1718]

It's fun to revisit topics of study from 30 years ago - so delighted!

[@Silvertestrun]

Thank you!

[@fredwiggins4610]

Thank you

[@ambermaypine5458]

Excellent fascinating video thank you

[@Animamundi139]

This episode is SO dense ❤ it’s going to take me a week to complete because I keep rewinding and re-listening!! I’m at 54 min but I’ve been listening 3 hrs lol 😂 thank you !! Such a great talk and great guests as always !! ❤ 💫

[@KathleenLarsonStargazer]

So beautiful and love love love the love balm or love bomb reference. It absolutely spoke to my heart on top of all the other beautifully meaningful references to the ancient ways of invoking the Divine in connection with the Orphic hymns and the art of astrology. That said, love you and your work, all of you, so many thanks.

[@koskost2857]

Πολύ καλή απαγγελία του ύμνου. Εύγε!!

[@KathleenLarsonStargazer]

Had to use Google translate :)

[@bloglivethehighve]

Liked in the first minute ✨👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Lisa-dy1fr]

Cool coincidence, the Orphism visual art movement was named by poet Guillaume Apollinaire..Apollo was Orpheus' father.

[@bethanyanne5657]

other absolute banger!

[@leviashanken2506]

I read that Sufism comes from Orphism, such as the whirling and chanting to achieve alternate states.

[@heidimariebee]

Please release the Pythagorean episode!

[@m2the]

The waters of memory and forgetting sound very red pill, blue pill. Also most grounding example I like for how the part contains the all: how could I exist without the oxygen from trees and plants, the water from streams and lakes, the bacteria in my stomach that digest food, etc. Take all those away and I die. Those things live on inside me and I live on only because they exist.

[@mariakatariina8751]

10:27 Väinämöinen and Aino of the Suomi national epos Kalevala.

[@arwyn-artistries]

I had a dream about you last night Chris . I dreamt that you were spending some time with me and a few of my friends and some strangers near a subway station, and I said to you that you are really intelligent and that “ you’ve been reading books on astrology for a long time haven’t you” because you explain everything so eloquently and in a way that people like me can understand, which shows that not only are you smart academically but as well as emotionally intelligent. Anyways for a while I was falling asleep to your podcast because you have a nice voice, and so it’s no surprise that your creeping your way into my subconscious haha. Thank you for providing a comforting space to listen to your knowledge and also lull me to sleep (and definitely not because it’s boring) also, later on in the dream you laid down next to me and I was gently rubbing your head, and you said something like “thank you, cancer risings have sensitive heads” which I was confused about because I didn’t think you were a cancer rising. Looked up your chart and you have moon in the ascendant, now I wonder if that’s what you meant. Anywho. It was just a dream but it was nice and I wanted to share. Have a good day 🩵

[@melissamoore521]

People who have profound and positive influence on our mundane lives, as well as the supernatural life of our unconscious, should be most complimented. =) There are a bunch of us who appreciate and trust Chris. Lots of virtual head rubs...😂

[@GoldenSunFlower8]

❤

[@ProvocateuAstrology2]

It will be nice to see Nick Campion again. I haven't seen him since 1992 when we went out to a Mexican restaurant after a conference.

[@8248angelina]

Is it just my apple podcasts app or has the podcast not been uploaded for the last few episodes?

[@TheAstrologyPodcast]

It is showing up for me on iTunes, so not sure

[@8248angelina]

Weird. The last episode it shows was March 25 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@JesseKeegan]

Orph-acinating/Orph-antastic/Orph-resh perspectives, making the book & researches of y'all to be kept an eye out for. Here's to the molders of fate!

[@Cmrntylr]

This is all over Rosicrucianism where its core it the mysteries of Golgatha which is the same myth. The specific difference as why it exists is that journey to the underworld gave humanity the “I” that gives us free will. This is actually defined, as it’s a myth of the logos, that the astrology chart is fate, or will. The cosmos represented by the dodecahedron or zodiac (in this case).. free will is more “mental”. You treat the causal with stoicism, then active in studying the cosmos which is 7 moods or approaches to 12 different disciplines. Like, sun is empiricism and the moon is occult by its reflection of light of the sun. The sun illuminates, the moon reflects the illumination which is occult is defined. The suggestion is to study each planet in each sign through Virgo as Virgo is the sign associated with studying the mysteries, Venus is the mysteries itself as mysticism. Pretty much every philosophical topic brought up on astro podcast episodes are in the core of Rosicrucianism while including historic alterations as dealing with a specific new topic. The gospel of Saint John is was their initiation text. (1st 14 versus). They’re of 7 stages, the mystic death sounds amazing. This is recognition of the senses and maya. Good times. The last thing I ever wanted to do was revise “Christian astrology” but here we are, right on the cusp of developing it. 😂 I’m actually more interested as the “mental zodiac” is a system used (also) to defuse the illusion of duality. Aka: it can identify biases and be used to navigate, say, the internet. Controversial! Which was kind of touched on. Rosicrucians say ancient astrologers knew the sun was the center but was hidden in the mystery schools so an initiated person couldn’t perform any of these types of rituals described in the episode.

[@mariakatariina8751]

22:13 Apollo - a/paljon - not/plenty, much, abundance

[@lyndacalder5083]

yay, 1st to view Again,

[@samspade2657]

Orphicism is thought to have strong Vedic influences.

[@samspade2657]

@@lisasmith3657 see Alsobrook. “The Beginning of Time: Vedic and Orphic Theogonies and Poetics.” (2015).

[@samspade2657]

@@lisasmith3657 And Timothy J. Lomperis wrote in his book, Hindu Influence on Greek Philosophy: The Odyssey of the Soul from the Upanishads to Plato, that: "Consequently, it is the central thesis of this study that Plato, through the Pythagoreans and also the Orphics, was subjected to the influence of Hindu thought, but that he may not have been aware of it as coming from India."

[@reginabaldwin7543]

This episode gave me the chills. Over the ages, the ancients have been denigrated as polytheists. But as this discussion shows, the ancients had a much more sophisticated understanding of the universe and its divinity (the part equals the whole; not the other way around). Theirs was more a sophisticated understanding. Many modern "monotheistic" religions claim to be about one God but are actually devotional to man. One major exception is Judaism, whose core tenet is that "G*d" has no name and is unknowable and ineffable comes the closest to these ancient beliefs. Mind blown!

[@heidimariebee]

You missed the point completely

[@mariangrimsdell1112]

I guess the saying there is nothing new under the Sun comes to my mind, the Gaia principle was obviously well understood right from the beginning of Time on earth. The human Ego has a constant need to redefine itself over the ages, it will recycle ancient themes into something supposedly “modern” as it feels the need to have its own identity or experience.

[@briannatayla]

orpheus is giving hermes as a water sign

[@erindambrosio5410]

🫀🙏

[@mariakatariina8751]

Hermes - kertomus - story, history 21:12

[@hrissti8367]

One correction though, Orpheus was not a Greek. He was included in the Greek mythology but He was actually a Thracian poet and singer. And Thrace was never considered a part of Greece. Another story is how Greek mythology has "consumed" multiple mediterranean myths and included them in their cosmology. It is important to check and use this knowledge accurately.

[@elizakarmasalo111]

Orpheus comes from the Rhodope mountain. That is in Bulgaria. So no. It is not "Greek". Greko-Roman parasites took over ancient Thracia and Thracians were many tribes to whom Orpheus gave the "language" and the language is not Greek. Greeks are mixture of Helenestic Thracians and mainly african pirates... so let's not give Orhpeus the name Greek, please.

[@heidimariebee]

Interesting, can you suggest sources for further reading on this? Wouldn’t Hekate and Dionysus also be Thracian?