Hellenistic Philosophy of Astrology - Conversation w/ Chris Brennan on Fate in the Ancient World

I was happy to be joined by ‪@TheAstrologyPodcast‬ 's Chris Brennan to discuss philosophical issues in Hellenistic philosophy especially the role of fate, free-will and the various theories of astrological causation in the ancient Hellenistic world.
Make sure to check out his podcast - theastrologypodcast.com/
Grab a copy of his book - www.amazon.com/Hellenistic-As...
Make Sure to Subscribe & Consider supporting Esoterica by
becoming a monthly Patron - / esotericachannel
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[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Make Sure to Subscribe & Consider supporting Esoterica by becoming a monthly Patron - www.patreon.com/esotericachannel or a one time donation - www.paypal.me/esotericachannel Make sure to check out Chris Brennan's podcast - theastrologypodcast.com/ Grab a copy of his book - Hellenistic Astrology: The Study of Fate and Fortune - www.amazon.com/Hellenistic-Astrology-Study-Fate-Fortune/dp/0998588903

[@catoelder4696]

Thanks for everything, man. Kinda busy right now, but I will expand on that later. You've been really helpful.

[@radarlove232323]

Chris Brennan AND Dr. Sledge at the same time?! YES! This is the kind of serious, scholarly content I seek on the internet!

[@josie_posie808]

Such a gift to have these titans collaborate

[@michellegates7083]

What you are saying about fate reminds me of genetics how genes are inherited but their expression is effected by our environment. Thanks for this discussion! 🤗

[@grantolson8949]

like GENESIS , the book of GENES

[@samajammy]

Hey KZbin algorithm, promote this channel!

[@kylesty6728]

The insight about Christianity offering a way out of fate (literally salvation from the spiritual dominions as Paul liked to say) is so lucid and penetrating. Wonderful.

[@sirjohnfalstaff]

L

[@lemonadeutube]

Yes, it those passages are fuller in my mind now. Wow so cool!

[@seynsverlassenheit3296]

Same with early Islam; the bismillah as a protection against the 19 henchmen of hell (12 zodiac signs plus 7 planets). For more see Henry Corbin, Temple and Contemplation

[@johnnewton8017]

@@seynsverlassenheit3296 Thank you very much for the recommendation!

[@Cat-tastrophee]

Something clicked for me when I heard that

[@unsane7188]

I really enjoyed this one. It’s good to hear an intellectual conversation like this after sifting through the catacombs of KZbin insanity. Great job to both of you guys for real. Im so glad I found this channel

[@1ACL]

It would be wonderful to include an Indian Vedic astrologer in a conversation like this. It would be interesting to hear their views about karma and how, if it does, dovetail with the topics you are discussing.

[@oscardiaz3311]

loving these cross-overs between both channels!

[@ewadsworth]

This is so exciting, I can't believe we get a second!!!🙏🏾👏🏽🙏🏾👏🏽🙏🏾 🤟🏾🤘🏿🤟🏾

[@jennyd_1111]

Two of my favorite people

[@catoelder4696]

OMG I'm so happy you finaly released another video together.

[@AmburBanner]

One of the dopest conversations ever recorded! 🙌🏽👏🏽🤓

[@jacobfschaffer]

Epic! That first conversation was amazing. But wait… there’s more!

[@melissamoore521]

Knowing in advance, when you are going to be slapped by Fate, will allow one to change from the block to a cylinder; making the smack a bit less painful, and the roll down the hill a bit more educational? Bravo to you both!

[@dirkdiamondify]

This is just SO fantastic. Lucid, dazzlingly well-informed, and utterly compelling. Thank you so much!!!

[@user-uw2dp5zq9s]

The quote "why the fuck are they blowing trumpets?" Is the best thing ever thank you so much

[@theforensicbadass]

Absolutely brilliant conversation. Thank you.

[@user-if4nx2jn8r]

The way destiny and fate were viewed in the ancient world is really interesting, I think we often have an overly simplistic view of what those concepts meant or mean.

[@lemonadeutube]

Yeah we got the SparkNotes in School

[@davidnagy1046]

man, the syncronicities lately are mind-boggling... during the last week i've been thinking a lot about buying Chris Brennan's book - i guess this is a sign :D

[@spiritofmatter1881]

I was thinking to buy his book this week too! Maybe he magick spelled us 😈

[@writteninthesky]

only when the student is ready, The Master appears, never earlier 💫

[@mpitts87]

The book is absolutely amazing and beautifully done

[@randyjones3050]

Awakening to the realities of syncronicities (and presumably guidance from my higher self) has been one of the great shifts in my view of reality. For example, I'm privileged to have a job where I sort through old books to determine what can be sold what can be discarded. I have first pick of being able to buy books that I find. What I have discovered is that books on history, the occult, or esoteric matters that I need to read just show up in my book sorting piles when I'm ready for them.

[@davidnagy1046]

@@randyjones3050 haha same! sometimes it feels like i'm guided towards new research-topics and somehow end up learning about concepts that made no sense in one system, but i finally understood through the other system

[@robodachi3062]

What a gift to have these two collaborate. Had no idea you guys even did. Just got this on my recommendations

[@buciorjakub]

Probably one of my favorite videos on this channel so far

[@WendysOccultCompass]

This is like chocolate and peanut butter together. ❤️

[@zuzziekapas6733]

This was incredible!!! I'm so happy to see the two of you collaborating. The Astrology Podcast and Esoterica are both channels I frequent. Thank you for sharing your expertise, great dynamic! What a special time to be alive for such comprehensive information be so accessible. #neverbefore Grateful and hope to see future episodes!

[@therhetorician4683]

Does esoterica have a podcast? Link me to it please

[@astrogypsy]

Nice one fellas. Your all's knowledge base is crazy. Thx.

[@samuelshepard]

Y'alls*

[@TaraHisakata]

Those enormous Japanese puzzle boxes have got to be the nicest objects on your shelves. You have such a wonderful collection of objects there but those boxes are my favorite.

[@TheEsotericaChannel]

Ha! I love them and went through a phase collecting them. Just such lovely pieces of craftsmanship!

[@MoonsoulAlchemy]

Bravo x2. Such a great ovation return as well. Thank you. Just stellar. It’s great to see some younger minds also being interested. You just can’t get this meat from a standard brick and mortar.

[@MagnumInnominandum]

An ever opening flower of delight and profundity.

[@johnnyb357]

This was amazing. Two of the greatest minds in your fields on KZbin..Can’t wait for the next one.

[@moniquewells4068]

Yes and Yes! I didn't want it to end!

[@robertbright947]

I cannot express how much I enjoy your videos and presence here. So well considered and accomplished that I feel stirred just to listen and watch. Thank you!

[@phantomxof3269]

I’m thankful for your channel, wonderful content and very insightful!! Keep up the fantastic work Dr. Sledge!!🙏

[@mironalexandra4602]

thank you very much for this gem of a podcast!

[@rozrena3959]

Thank you so much!

[@SeidellNorbel]

Just found this channel. I haven't stopped diving into videos since. Thank you for the high quality and scholarship of everything. It's very encouraging. You touched on the raqia/dome in a separate video and I was wondering, after listening to this, I was wondering why or how ANE earth beliefs evolved to our current models and if there is, in your opinion, any esoteric reasoning for the more recent comeback of those beliefs.

[@justinbirkholz7814]

Awesome. This was fascinating. I had not contemplated the philosophy of astrology much before this but this has given me a lot to consider. Thank you

[@sstarjoyy]

I have enjoyed your channel and Chris' independently of the other, however, the amount of sheer cosmic download streaming from watching and listening to the two of you together truly brings me back in time. Cheers to the both of you, great voices of mercury.

[@perephoneia5836]

Such a great video! I hope you two do more together in the future.

[@middleburyastrology]

Just became a patreon. This is the best conversation on astrology I have ever heard. Great job...great work :) to you both.

[@Jason-ms8bv]

Thanks for posting this conversation, I did not know just how ingrained in the ancient's consciousness the concepts and following of astrology really was, to the extent that philosophy and religion had to have answers to it. This is literally the first I have heard of this, and as someone who is very interested in history and philosophy that's actually quite disturbing, as it would appear to have been a major motivating factor in the ideology and decision making of the people of antiquity, you guys have given me a lot to think over, thanks!

[@SummumBonum.]

The soldier of fate has a special significance to me as I have been listening to the neuroscientist Andrew Huberman. He talks about the science of dopamine regulation and the soldier of fate describes the precise mechanism for regulating dopamine.

[@jeffatwood9417]

Thanks again for the presentation. Always nice to hear. I’m in Acupuncture school, and I’m surprised by how much Pythagorean style of philosophy fits in. Considering TCM is a newer creation than the ancients, we must realize how much Western influence played in early Chinese philosophy. Astrology in China is very interesting, and essential to TCM analytic theory. I think Hermetic medical thought had much to do with Ayurvedic and Taoist TCM. My undergrad work was in ancient theology/mythology and new religious movements, looking at the social application of Religious philosophies. It brings me to define Religion as “the relationship you have to the story you tell yourself. “You,” here, is relative to identity, so personal or group identities. As mentioned here about changes in astrology effecting social application of religion, so we’re changes in mythological themes changing. We see, for example, with the lunar focus changing to solar focus correspond with writing systems being the medium for wisdom transference, as opposed to the oral poetic histories. We find that the gender of the sun/fire was female and lunar/water was male. Shakti/Shiva tantric image switched to Buddhist white male and dark female. Shiva as the empty and chaotic matter, thus being “fluid” without firm, and Shakti as fiery energy that dances from the presence of consciousness that entered matter with Prāna. Prāna means “forth breath,” referring to Shiva not inhaling but, rather, Something breathing INTO Shiva like God animating Adam. The mythical gender swap seems to have different variations. The Bagua in China has both models! Wind, the first movement of matter in Space, is the first daughter, and Thunder the first Son. She is Yin-Air as he is Yang-Air. She is a condensing inhalation, a Yin action that gathers matter into form. This pleased the God-Mind because his primordial self-ignorance validated self existence as Wind blessed God-Mind with Sensation. Thunder, however, is the Yang reaction to Yin inhalation. The pleasure of feeling entered the exhalation, making a roaring sound (AUM/Om) as God’s mouth opened and yawned. Before breaking the egg there was a humming “mmmmmm,” but after he stretched out of sleep and yawned “God/Brahmā” lifted Heaven while standing in the basin of the Ocean. This is Pangu in China, known to be influenced from India, but it is the Golden Embryo and egg of Greek…and is Buri in Norse myth. Buri is the microcosm of the unspoken/unnamed unity of the first 3 regions, together as the macrocosm of Niguna/Shunyata/Ayin. The closest name is “Gínnungagáp” (“Beginning/Yawning-Gap.”), which is Chaos, 100% potential and, therefore, “empty without form.” Fire then water arise from the gap. After wind moved, however, it smashed molecules together as condensation created the second son, Water. This first action of breathing, however, also carried the fire of subconsciousness into material existence to become self-knowledgeable (sensational perception). This fire is the second daughter, who is Tejas (Thought-Fire) in Hindu myth. In this myth we see Prajāpati-Brahmā as creator of Life (Progeny Father). She was first thought, the subconscious limitless light in limitless space in Dreamtime. The sound in the darkness, however, sparked analytical reflection since, like a child, God-Mind was afraid of the sound in the darkness (Thunder). The first conscious thought/plan was to see. Intention + Sound = Word…”Light.” The Heart is chieftain of speech in Egypt, Norse, and Chinese systems at least. The fire of thought condensed into the fire of Word (conscious creative plan), dropping into the heart from the Mind. She thought his praise, calling her “guru” (“remover of darkness”), was improper since He created Her. She cooled her skin and became the black cow of the earth…or truly Red inside as the root chakra is a red circle in a 4-petal of black square corners. She is Feoh, the first rune and Gold. It is gold because this is the fall of the spirit or manifestation of thought into a created thing. This pathway of thought is fascinating how the different traditions fulfills the blanks of each other to expose a larger human picture of thought. Thank you both for your discussion.

[@CB79751]

Fabulous conversation. Thanks.

[@bzeliotis]

That's a fascinating discussion on the philosophy of astrology, and yes, having read 'Hellenistic Astrology,' I agree, that it's a great book that opens one's mind to new ways of understanding and using astrology.

[@soulfreedom8447]

Incredible discussion! Thank you to you both! When are you two going to collaborate again?

[@brucemedia3747]

sick crossover episode

[@ewadsworth]

🤑🤑

[@ewadsworth]

@@jamieoliver4710 we already know though 😅😄😁🤘🏿🙏🏾

[@KeianhhnaieK]

Thank you both!

[@theorignaldragon5579]

sir will there be any lectures about the alchemical study of isaac newton and robert boyle , please make some I really want to hear from your about alchemical study of these men

[@Eternally-Oriented]

Esoterica is sadly a fraud, I would reccomend Robert Sepehr if you want an earnest devout and real occult researcher. He has two channels one is his name the other is Atlantean Gardens.

[@Eternally-Oriented]

@@theorignaldragon5579 He has stated on twitter directly to Robert that he claimed robert stole a topic for a video and plagiarized many of the findings which is not true at all. In addition he has straight up said He doesn't believe in God or even in consciousness!. Thats not very magical...

[@thomasanderson9621]

@@Eternally-Oriented You are aware that Sepher (of blue-eyed white Cro-Magnon fame, lol!) is a low-key supremacist? (which I have no problem with, there being a difference between that and a racist, although honestly, Sepher tries to be subtle, but still skirts the line.) This tendency has tainted and skewed his research, to the point where some things he pushes are just blatently not true. Actually look in to, and read some of his "research" instead of just watching youtube videos.

[@quixoticplebeian]

Someone PLEASE give Chris an honorary Doctorate in History of Philosophy.

[@melissamoore521]

I most emphatically second this motion... all in favor say 'Aye!"

[@BREEP.]

YAY!!!!

[@jennyd_1111]

I love this discussion and am looking forward to many more collaborations between the two of you.

[@caseywhiteastr0cosm]

This discussion is so good! So happy to have stumbled upon you and your work through the astrology podcast! 👏🤤

[@ohissnunu]

I’m dying to see yours guys’ synastry charts.

[@naomiseraphina9718]

It's a great pleasure to listen to two such scholarly and knowledgeable people discuss subjects such as this one. You are both delightful people to listen to, and I have learned a tremendous amount from you. Thank you so much for your contributions to world knowledge! I especially liked the observation you made, (Dr. Sledge) about the bizarre phobia that straight white men in particular seem to have toward astrology. You're absolutely right- there's some sort of interesting clue there about underlying social norms and assumptions in the mainstream mentality of our times. Possibly worth further investigation? Blessings and best wishes! --N

[@francheskahenderson]

Fabulous show by two of my favorite people to listen too. I appreciate your channel . I have Chris’s book and have studied astrology on and off for years as well as the history of it. So interesting! When you see it being accurate in your own life it really can make one question free will vs fate. I sometimes wonder if it really is just different for each person though based on what you believe about it, like coding we can believe , give our consent to , so it plays out. I wonder this because after learning tropical , Vedic , and true sidereal ( the only one actually based on the true sky above us) I have seen all three be accurate depending on which system the astrologer prefers / believes in. I see it like how there are different ways to read different tarot decks and they all can work effectively depending on the faith of the people using the system and the card readers skills which are physical and intuitive. The 3 systems of astrology seem like different operating systems or software on a computer in a way and it just depends on which set of codes you like and use. Are we giving that coding consent to be our personal frequency coding when we cast and interpret a predictive chart? Are we the ones who by in doing so make it happen as the chart says by expecting the things we see in it to happen? If we ignore astrology completely and focus on creating our own future as we want it do we really take back our power , withdraw consent for coding playing out in our life , or are we fools just to think we can change a predetermined script ? It seems to be it’s the language the book of our life is written in that’s in the akashic records library. These are all the kind questions running through my mind for years now.

[@rosieeilon1882]

Fabulous duo❤️‍🩹

[@thoth_amon]

ideas like the planets and stars having effects on earth is probably how we discovered the effects of the moon on our earth, it's weird how the study of this stuff is just discarded instead of it being studied, since it basically shows the evolution of our perspective of everything, like an evolution of scientific thought, and how perspectives color the thought processes, and the planets do have effects on the earth and humans, their celestial influence=gravity

[@helenbostock2350]

Great to hear from you thanks

[@theludraman]

Very nice discussion

[@82krazykitten]

Amazing questions, amazing answers ❤️, the planets must of aligned in your favour 😁. Thank you so much for this 🙏

[@unnunn12]

thank you mr esoterica :)

[@ludgerbonn7878]

Few months ago i had the idea to start a hermetic astrological beased magic System and it works better than thought. Did not know how far similar ideas reach back. Fun fact ... stoicism makes more sense to. Me because i feel fate as something living .... hard to explain. Thanks for your insights

[@canisronis2753]

Bravo! Very useful conversation. There is a Netflix documentary series called Murder Among the Mormons that reveals what an evil genius would look like and also throws into question the accuracy of historical artifacts.

[@fredwiggins4610]

Thank you

[@simibignall5688]

"Even the gods don't fight against Ananke" - Simonides. Ananke being the personification of the force of inevitability, compulsion and necessity. Khaire Ananke!

[@missperfectfeet]

There are studies in medicine about cyrcadian rhythms that correlate diseases with the month of birth and establish some tendencies or significnce in statistics. And this would help with coping with the pathology, knowledge cannot be harmful is the philosophy behind all science.

[@DarkMoonDroid]

Y'know, it occurs to me... ...that Stoicism is trending at the moment. I'm not sure how much of the current consumption of it includes fatalism, tho. It seems to be a response to the dissatisfaction that came out of the 90's. I could be wrong. But that's what I see. So, I think people are looking for philosophical systems that support the "Clean your room" and "Suck it up" thinking made popular by certain pundits. But I'm not sure they would be equally ready to embrace the degree of fatalism that the OG Stoics promoted. Western Civilization is still pretty individualistic and self-determinative. I wonder how they justify cherry-picking thru this substantial philosophy like that.... 🤔

[@kinesisfilms9147]

Excellent

[@ne0nprince]

Re: 1:06 - I'll save you time, Dr. Sledge. Most neopagans totally reject the concept of being bound by fate.

[@BrunofanofK]

I love the humanistic aproach to humans' religious instincts. People have been asking these questions since we discovered we could so it is nice to show respect and think "what kind of people were they to come up with tihs?".

[@IpsissimusPrime]

Finally got back to this after re-watching you on Chris’ podcast (outstanding btw). I am certified by Chris and that Hellenistic course helped me to dive into other systems (Sidereal and Vedic - which are not the same despite using the same zodiac). It’s not so much “fate” as “destiny” IMO - once again perspective determines how we define things. I favor a “Partial Determinism & Signs” based philosophical position, but this is based on my own experience not as a result of some purely discursive philosophical argument. Practice ALWAYS supersedes theory. The most important thing is to be grounded in the principles so that you can see, for yourself or a client, what their overall gestalt is. The most important thing is to first understand is planetary symbolism (and yet this will vary depending on mythological scheme used) and then look at the planetary pattern in the chart. Planetary patterns and cycles are a fascinating area to study and beyond the basic cycles, you get to some amazing harmonic patterns in various cycles strongly suggesting that there is a mathematical aspect to all this, so “God” is fundamentally a geometer. The issue of fate/destiny is clearer once the astrologer has a clear understanding of these cycles and harmonics. It’s not always straightforward however. This is where astrological software is very helpful to identify aspects, aspect patterns, and harmonics. If the general pattern is well visualized then the astrologer is best able to determine who the client is (and here is one of the most positive things about the art, i.e. helping the client develop better insight). After that, whether the client is able to break or modify their habitual responses to life, determines whether they are fated to their pattern, or learn to work within those confines to achieve better things. For those interested in learning Hellenistic Astrology, I would recommend Chris’ book first and then Demetria George’s 2 volumes of Hellenistic Astrology (this is the best structured workbook/technique series available right now).

[@VOCATUS123]

Amor fati. Wonderful video both of you. So maybe quantum theory is a sort of profane validation for astrological influence?

[@flexingfate4070]

Educational Excellence.

[@Ark_bleu]

I am pretty surprised to that the history of astrology/fate has done more to persuade me of free will’s shaky roots than any of the philosophical arguments I’ve heard to date. I’m still convinced free will exists but his point about the stark contrast between Christianity and paganism at the turn of the millennia was excellent.

[@ewadsworth]

Woop woop. 🙇🏽‍♀️

[@thomasanderson9621]

I think a big part that was missing in regards to Astrology in the ancient world, is the science of statistics. I think that, in the aggregate people will tend to conform to the various astrological signs, but this doesn't eliminate free will. As an individual, you have free will and are not fated to heimarmene. Say you were a Leo, you could purposely say and do things that are the absolute opposite of the Leo energy. I think you would have a hard time of it, like riding a bike up a hill vs downhill, but via free will you can make those choices if you want to. But again, in the aggregate, I think that people who are Leo's will statistically trend towards and display characteristics of, a Leo. This may be why initially, the focus of Astrology was the so-called "Mundane" horoscope, or the horoscope of a nation, or in other words an aggregated horoscope. Thinking about this notion of escaping or breaking free of fate, or heimarmene, one should look in to the Sola Busca Tarot Deck, wherein it seams that the creator of the deck was making some kind of magical compact with A Demiurgic type character, specifically Ammon/Saturn and eventually coalescing into Baal-Hammon, that would allow them to somehow "cheat" or escape fate, as well as gain some kind of continuity between lifetimes. It's almost like a cosmic trust account, containing money/magic/knowledge/pedigree(bloodline) that one could somehow access through the astrology, their birthchart or sign acting in some way like an account number, so to speak. Interestingly, a great deal of medieval heraldry and coats of arms, are in fact visual representations of a persons birthchart or sign. @ESOTERICA you should definitely consider doing an episode on "The Game of Saturn" by Peter Mark Adams, a magisterial study of The Sola Busca Tarot deck. Mr. Adams has done yeomans work in the researching of that deck, taking him down all kinds of interesting rabbit holes. Check it out, if you are not already aware of it.

[@lemonadeutube]

I am going to look into this. At first glance, seems like the common idea of making a pact with the devil?

[@PatriceBoivin]

I never understood a) what Gurdjieff meant when he said the Moon is like the weight at the end of a grandfather clock's pendulum, forcing things to move into time like it forces the gears of the clock to move another notch ahead in time to move the needles and b) Annie Besant's complex writings (random ramblings?) about what she called "esoteric astrology." G. de Purucker's and Ouspensky's descriptions of the planets and the sun almost make it seem as if those larger bodies live in more dimensions than we do. Planets at one level, the Sun higher w more dimensions. I tried to visualize that but it gave me a headache. Probably because I am not wise enough, not intelligent enough. :-P Maybe I am like a sheep or alpaca who suddenly realizes he's standing in a middle of a flock in a field and wonders why he's there, what's going on, what is everyone else doing. No answers, no one else cares or notices, they're just munching on grass.

[@sanjinv]

A look into Astro-Theology might be helpful, particularly Robert T. Taylors sermons collected in "The Devil's Pulpit" and contemporary writings by M.Tsarion. For the ancients and the preserved esoteric science, the planets are beings who are complex, "multi-dimensional" and multi-faceted, as we humans are. All of the created beings energeticaly exist simultaneously on the level of body, psyche, spirit, soul... For example, it is in this sense that from the human perspective the Sun might be regarded as the mightiest being in creation, and therefore "the Son of God". From the same anhropocentric view the Moon and the perceivable planets are other mighty and "godlike" creatures, the stars are beings who live in constellations - "families, tribes, cities", with specific attributes and relation to other beings, humans in particular.

[@danindeed]

Can we get a Joseph P Farrell/ Randall Carlson/ Esoterica mashup? O_O Amazing content, btw. Top tier.

[@Ark_bleu]

One aspect that really wasn’t touched on, that is most popular today, yet distinct from the branches mentioned-“typology”. It would be really interesting to see where in the timeline these emerged; have t seen a good video on that yet

[@ALWA07]

Not to undermine the research by any means, but I find a lot of historical figures who exceled in various divinations to essentially be the ancient therapist in a lot of ways. Both have to tackle the past, present, & future with the metaphorical cards or the general universe in the way the client perceives those object(s) or entity(s). There is then either tools or discourse given or spoken in order for the client to not only receive those events or behaviors properly, & also work either against or with them in a proper manner. The charts & obviously the philosophy involved is drastically different, but the mentality and the end goal is strikingly similar through my lenses.

[@stephanie11011]

dr.sledge im so curious , when is you birthday i couldnt find it online anywhere :(

[@LexiePersonForever]

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THIS EPISODE EXISTED?!

[@AdiMaco]

Another excellent interview! I would love to know, which is the oldest astrologycal system.

[@Eternally-Oriented]

The Chaldean and Vedic Hindu Systems...

[@nevisysbryd7450]

As far as we know, Mesopotamian-Sumer, Akkad, Babylon, etc.

[@Eternally-Oriented]

@@nevisysbryd7450 As stated above, the Chaldean is by far the oldest predating those regions you mentioned as their ancestor. The chaldean priest king astrologers were masters of the Heavens.

[@nevisysbryd7450]

@@Eternally-Oriented Chaldean astrology is also/more properly known as Babylonian astrology, and Chaldea is part of Mesopotamia.

[@Eternally-Oriented]

@@nevisysbryd7450 Indeed. Just making sure we both understand 👌

[@mjr_schneider]

I've noticed there's been a recent explosion of popular interest in astrology among young people (on Tiktok and Instagram for example). I wonder if this is in part a reaction to the anxiety caused by the pandemic and whether that might be evidence for the crisis-management theory of religion. Would be interesting to look into.

[@thomasanderson9621]

Very possible, i think.

[@mariamcgovern9132]

Yeah, there is definitely a resurgence. It may have started even pre Covid. A reflection of uncertain times.

[@Eternally-Oriented]

Pandemic... 🤣🤡

[@lemonadeutube]

@@poetryflynn3712 yes I tend to agree. Yet these ideas don't seem to bring them happiness I have found.

[@randyjones3050]

The primary cause is likely the declining influence of Christianity in the West and a lack religious belief among young people today. Humans are fundamentally spiritual creatures and something needs to fill that void left by 'orthodox' Christianity. The social stigma of studying alternative belief systems is fading rapidly making it much easier for young people to study topics like astrology without fear of social persecution. Also, the Internet makes learning about a topic like astrology as easy as entering a Google search on their iPhone. Granted they are coming across of a lot of garbage on platforms like TikTok, but it is providing a gateway for deeper study later if they are interested.

[@therhetorician4683]

Does esoterica have a podcast? Link me to it please

[@oat5662]

President Reagan had an astrologer??? WHOA!

[@thetanpopsicle3824]

How does the consideration of a contemporary zeitgeist of Ptolemian determinism differently illuminate the scene in the Garden of Gethsemane.

[@h.m.mcgreevy7787]

It took 3x before I realized he was saying, "Fate" and not "feet."☘️🙃☘️

[@Carloscrosario]

I was very pleased to hear that there will be follow up conversations including modern practice and modern criticism of astrology. I love Carl Sagan but his criticism of astrology in his COSMOS series suffered considerable intellectual honesty in my opinion. He basically read comparative daily horoscopes from several newspapers to mock astrology pointing out the vagueness and inconsistencies. He basically did a one-man hatchet job using his opinions primarily as the primary evidence on a film series that has probably been shown to millions of children over several generations in science classes all over the world. His 1994 lost lecture on youtube link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJCQm6evnaaJisU showcased his brilliance and likable persona for anyone reading this too young or have been living under a rock and have never heard of Carl Sagan. I was just wondering if you would consider taking on Carl Sagan as an example of how even a very decent man, intellectual, great visionary, and great scientist could be so flippant and so unscientific (a few newspapers is not a scientific random sample) on this subject.

[@randyjones3050]

The problem with Carl Sagan is the same problem the vast majority of academics have when discussing astrology and other 'occult' or esoteric matters...they haven't actually studied it. They are essentially attacking something they don't understand. I also think it is important to remember that, all throughout history, very smart people have very different opinions about many different subjects. Just because some smart people don't believe in something (or do believe it) doesn't mean they are right. History books are filled with geniuses who believed things that were wrong.

[@icebrow]

How would it be if we could imagine ourselves 'trapped' inside an unfathomably humungous device that was programmed by its designer? Why is it that the technology we have/created now is the way it is now and wasn't like this in another time?

[@astrogypsy]

You hang up. No, you hang up. No, you hang up. lol

[@melissamoore521]

And aren't we happy about THAT! =.)

[@christophernelson2261]

Studying all of Greek philosophy backwards sounds really interesting to me. What order of books would you recommend for this. timestamp 1:10:00

[@Zanraid]

i see "the craft" in the background.

[@johnrohde5510]

My memory may be playing be playing me false but doesn't Plato say something to effect that the Good, or what should be done is written in the stars? I think maybe in the Parmenides but I might be wrong

[@helenbostock2350]

Wow

[@elmotickleme3501]

You mention Fate a lot. What greek word are you translating? Tyche?

[@chrisjones8968]

This straight white dude is fascinated by astrology. Great video.

[@ktkatte6791]

The fate problem is weird to me. If that's how it has to be; everything is fixed, fine. Whatever. But I don't *know* that, and as such I am obliged to resist any outcome such that I can chance survival at any moment, to merely lay down and die in stoic peace is not acceptable lol

[@Lazarus_Cardinalis]

Why did I think he was talking to Maynard James Keenan for a second...

[@johnnewton8017]

LOL idk but Chris is an absolute GANGSTER!

[@PatriceBoivin]

Another question, did they consider Sol (Helios) to be a planet, or a star? I am wondering whether the scale the G. Work presented (Ray of Creation) has ancient roots or is more recent. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_of_Creation

[@muckraker636]

In trad. astrology, the sun and the moon are considered luminaries and have their own unique effects on the planet/individual compared to the planets. :)

[@nevisysbryd7450]

Planets, although as with Luna, Sol was one of the two Luminaries. They were frequently ascribed with unique properties.