The OTHER Most Profound Moment in Gaming History

After I did my original video titled "The Most Profound Moment in Gaming History", I had a whole bunch of people suggest other games they believed should hold the title. This was the one that was suggested the most.
Explaining the JC Denton Profile Pictures: • Video
Footage borrowed from "Video Game Movies": • Deus Ex - Cinematic Pl...
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[@maxderrat]

For those who might want to watch the "moment" in question without my commentary, here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5OQk5yghJioe9k

[@Rg-es9kv]

thank you for the video! If you made a series on the ghost in the shell series i would really enjoy that..just a suggestion as i think your explanation of this genre is really good

[@maxderrat]

It's on my list of videos to do. Stay tuned. ;)

[@iansoric802]

Thanks for the great video Have you played the witcher and will you watch the show

[@maxderrat]

I have not played the Witcher, but I will indeed watch the show (if I hear it's good). :)

[@danielbrooks7764]

The video definitely reminds me of Jordan B Peterson's "Maps of Meaning." Perhaps God is the collective unconcious, which dreams of the universe, and electric sheep.

[@isaacclarke8945]

“When people have no foundation in the truth, any lie will suffice.”

[@Guilherme-qx9iz]

What is the Truth without God?

[@Fredjoe5]

@@Guilherme-qx9iz What is a God without a Truth.

[@marcusmeins1839]

@@Fredjoe5 someone has to create the truth . Someone has to come first .

[@XarathDominion]

@@marcusmeins1839 Truth is an inherent aspect of existence, there is no one to create it. an observer however can give a voice to the truth, yet he would never be able to tell the truth perfectly unfiltered, for every observer will always see something different in the "truth" that is presented to them. the truth would have to tell itself to us without barriers, like other people or beliefs and all that muck we keep getting caught in, but that can never happen. Know that: before a god lies existence, something that always was and always will be, for it is in it's very nature to be infinite in all aspects imaginable, and not. It has neither a beginning or an end, and nothing can't exist within it, but everything MUST.

[@unbalanced4464]

@@XarathDominion existence needs to happen first before the truth can exist in it

[@therasslintheatre2960]

"The OTHER Most Profound Moment in Gaming History" By the way Denton, stay out of the ladies' restroom, that kind of activity embarrases the agency more than it does you

[@Ezio999Auditore]

Based.

[@SierraSierraFoxtrot]

That's one thing DX1 did NOT predict... that JD Denton would be able to claim discrimination for being kept OUT of the women's bathroom.

[@Jester2415]

It's frightening considering humans once worshiped trees and animals. A super computer AI revered as a deity is not that far fetched.

[@maelstrom2313]

Not only is it not that far-fetched, it seems almost inevitable when you really think about it.

[@jakedanielsen4512]

This gave me a fucking think

[@whitedastardly2938]

@@maelstrom2313 Given the crude connection some people have with their phones for a prime example, is pretty telling

[@Tenpouin]

worshiping the sun is still the most sane thing people ever worshiped

[@mnbuni8065]

@@jakedanielsen4512 I have thinks too

[@Sierra026]

"God was a dream of good government." I'm not sure why, but this phrase really stuck with me.

[@Matheus-hj8ye]

because it's true. In a world where injustice is the norm, the promise of inevitable justice and fairness in the after life keeps people at ease

[@Hirnlego999]

“[R]eligion was the race's first (and worst) attempt to make sense of reality. It was the best the species could do at a time when we had no concept of physics, chemistry, biology or medicine. We did not know that we lived on a round planet, let alone that the said planet was in orbit in a minor and obscure solar system, which was also on the edge of an unimaginably vast cosmos that was exploding away from its original source of energy. We did not know that micro-organisms were so powerful and lived in our digestive systems in order to enable us to live, as well as mounting lethal attacks on us as parasites. We did not know of our close kinship with other animals. We believed that sprites, imps, demons, and djinns were hovering in the air about us. We imagined that thunder and lightning were portentous. It has taken us a long time to shrug off this heavy coat of ignorance and fear, and every time we do there are self-interested forces who want to compel us to put it back on again.” ― Christopher Hitchens

[@LDub01031994]

It's because its true in the sense that the entire point in the efforts of understanding god, creating the concept of god, etc. is to come up with a belief system that there is a good arbiter up above who can correctly carry out justice by punishing the wicked and rewarding the good which would be "good government/governance". I am generally an anti-government sort of guy but I found this to be a really good point in terms of giving like a sociological reason as to why humans would put so much effort into religion and political systems

[@Hirnlego999]

@@LDub01031994 God is also invented ot answer the problem of death. Almost every religion claims to have an answer to this, and not without reason.

[@kpjlflsknflksnflknsa]

However, God, as a contrivance of man, didn't serve solely to govern people. If this were the case, I could find myself sympathizing with the notion. It had other unintended/irrational/detrimental consequences.

[@thatfish3951]

“I’m not gonna let you stand here and badmouth the greatest AI the world has ever known.”

[@joshuar3632]

Yes you will. Bc you cant do a damn thing. 😀

[@queuedjar4578]

@@joshuar3632 Except send you back to the comments section in a body bag.

[@FPSDIESEL]

These are great breakdowns your game literacy is astounding compared to a lot of the games media. Definitely keep stuff like this coming.

[@maxderrat]

Thanks homie! There's more coming down the pipeline. :)

[@olivius8891]

I knew you were a Deus Ex fan because you used the UNATCO theme in your vids lol.

[@tylerblevins500]

Hello Diesel. Wasn't expecting to see you here

[@CLOYO]

Only intelligent people get this all. Thanks.

[@Acueil]

To be fair, it's not that difficult to outdo gaming journalists when all they talk about is the race, gender, or personal politics of the characters, grasping at straws to tie it into real world politics.

[@deanchur]

Morpheus: "The human organism always worships" Three things spring to mind: Tesla, Apple, Crossfit

[@marcinwasilewski3278]

keto

[@one_step_sideways]

cat videos

[@Kenji-117]

Crossfit 💀

[@EggBastion]

"No one will ever worship a software entity peering at them through a camera." "Hey Alexa, get a load of this idiot!"

[@KyngD469]

Lmao

[@spacenoidveterano8866]

"No one will ever worship a software entity peering at them through a camera." Explain Hatsune Miku and V-tubers, then.

[@Zayindjejfj]

Exactly. We all want to worship something.

[@30weekoldwomber61]

V tubers are just pitchshifted KZbinrs. There are tons of channels that have cartoon avatars. I don't see the difference except motion capture. Miku is closer because it's more about the fans own imagination. Until miku gets merged with a home AI...

[@funposting8912]

Arguably you are watching them, not them watching you

[@endofcentury7077]

Ryoma PFP. Will you marry me?

[@andrewsarmiento1372]

Don't change my mind. I am already a believer of Hatsune-sama.

[@alexanderjonathan5170]

“Im not gonna sit here and let you badmouth the worlds greatest democracy” now thats the most profound moment

[@photonjones5908]

The US really is not a democracy. It's not really a republic now; It is an oligarchy.

[@user-iy3gx9qg4y]

@@photonjones5908 That's the point of any political system - to limit power in hands of a few. And the point of democratic systems is not to give "people" the ability to change their lords, in any means, but to allow elites switch with one another without a bloodshed. US was always an "oligarchy". Just as any country.

[@rudolph2937]

@@photonjones5908 Thats the joke. This line of dialogue was probably put in the game to mock people who are patriots and think the US is a democracy

[@photonjones5908]

look up the definition of "democracy". The "point" is that Democracy can be subverted by monied interests and popular ignorance.

[@photonjones5908]

It was supposed to be a republic, in that we get to choose the lesser of two evils in electing our "representatives", it was never a "democracy", and that is because most people are not fit to make informed choices. Democracy is essentially "Mob rule" and there has to be a means of exerting control by those who are actually responsible for the orderly function of societal institutions and norms. A Republic is a viable compromise - if the public exercises their right to choose based on legitimate perception of the common good - which would preclude electing people who lie about what their goals really are. But one must be able to discern motives and that requires a Free Press and a public willingness to engage. We have tools to fight the abuse of power -if we use them.

[@doclouis4236]

Well, this is strange. We have protagonist Solid Snake, who we were told is a clone of a soldier and was conceived much in the same way that J.C. Denton was born. We learn about his origin in Metal Gear Solid (1998) and two year later Deus Ex reveals much in the same way J.C.'s origin. Both Characters apparently share references to biblical characters, Solid Snake (David), Liquid Snake (Eli), J.C. Denton (Jesus Christ acronym). Both MGS2 and Deus Ex have somewhat similar themes with sorta different contexts. Then we have Ghost in the Shell, which Deus Ex looks to have taken inspiration from it's ending. I'm just now learning about all these connections. Wonder if there's any deeper one's?

[@maxderrat]

Woah... I noticed the connections in terms of theme and GITS, but as far as the biblical names... you just blew my mind. :D

[@doclouis4236]

@@maxderrat YongYea talked about this in his MGSV theory/analysis videos back before the game released. He offered a lot of insight on what could've been possible plot elements in the game. I think he looked at some reddit posts on some of these theories as well as forming his own. Even before MGSV, there were communities dedicated to solving the Silent Hills P.T. mystery and I think those same groups helped with uncovering some of the secrets in MGSV.

[@therandomdickhead5744]

Could just be a coincidence :3 who knows

[@power1up]

It’s called Blade Runner and it’s influence on the sci fi genre is massive.

[@doclouis4236]

@@power1up Nope. It's called Jodorowsky's Dune and it's influence has been used as inspiration for Blade Runner and even before that with Star Wars.

[@EmperorPrinc3]

"Were you programmed to invent..." God damn JC is Savage.

[@TommyEfreeti]

"The need to be observed and understood was once satisfied by God. Now we can implement the same functionality with data mining algorithms." Spector was amazingly prescient.

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

Morpheus is really identifying human nature and behavior there with social media people posting pictures of themselves Vlogs every little thing

[@electrosphere5581]

This isn't Spector, but actually Sheldon Pacotti (probably), main writer for Deus Ex.

[@Thatoneassclown]

People are imitating AI npcs on tiktok... And what is imitation if not worship? Not to mention all the people watching and paying them.

[@ULTRAOutdoorsman]

This was probably written by Sheldon Pacotti and Harvey Smith, not Warren Spector

[@0xlamon]

Both of them are simply retelling 'The Evitable Conflict' - the final part of Asimov's 'I, Robot' novel, which came out back in 1950.

[@XxLeatonSxX]

Based

[@skinnysnorlax1876]

Perhaps, but the incorporation of choice, (especially in metal gear imo) and player interaction recontextualizes the idea. Makes it more experiential, less abstract. It's a kind of transformation that all adaptations in different forms of media should strive for, exploiting their strengths and minimizing their weaknesses. Seems both these games did that phenomenally well

[@weekachawchaw6304]

read that book before playing both games, and i saw the connection immediately so much so it still lingers

[@TrevorLentz]

Deus Ex had such a profound impact on me as a kid, that I'm still writing music inspired by it to this day.

[@maxderrat]

Oh man, the music in this game is soooooooo damned good.

[@SonjaTheDork]

Alexander Brandon and MCA really did wonders, look into the original Unreal soundtrack if you want more of his work

[@tonyc.0451]

Morpheus: _"You will soon have your God, and you will make it with your own hands."_ I'm still astounded by how Deus Ex's story and themes still make themselves relevant in today's world. With many of us glued to digital screens and the content that they show, perhaps worshiping AI programs is inevitable. Now I wonder just when that would happen and what worshiping technology would look like. Since I missed out on the Metal Gear series, I wonder how well they presented similar topics covered by Deus Ex. These kinds of games keep me awake at night.

[@ennuied]

The God is the much needed ideal to run a whole society, otherwise the alternative would be anarchy, judicial system and incarceration exist as a deterrent as you have to have more people on the outside for the prisons to function in the first place (unless you convince them that it is not prison i.e. wage slavery). Fear of divine retribution is the cheapest tool of control, and luckily humans are extremely suggestible (to the point of hilarity).

[@tonyc.0451]

@@ennuied We humans are forever gullible, yes. Now imagine entire churches and temples for AI.

[@_VISION.]

We literally worship KZbin, Reddit, Instagram, Facebook, Google, etc. I have no idea if I should merge with tech because companies are so possessive of their tech. Which means they will own parts of me and I don't like that. At the same time, perhaps this decision will be just as easy as when I really wanted a computer in middle school so I could access the internet.

[@_VISION.]

@@ennuied I can see AI slowly gaining our trust. If it works out and the world is in fact a better place. We will definitely worship it.

[@tonyc.0451]

@@_VISION. If Helios does have so much power, I wonder how it would manage social media.

[@justanotherguy6174]

AIs " Regulating information for our benefit".. Sounds like the KZbin and google algorithms.

[@Leo-mu8kn]

These platforms are infant hiveminds, essentially. Maybe they'll evolve and the human factor will no longer be needed.

[@an2qzavok]

...Is "subscribe, leave a comment and click that bell button" a prayer?

[@zuzu-fe5ro]

@Just another guy hey you've got some hot playlists my g

[@justanotherguy6174]

@@zuzu-fe5ro lol cheers

[@keerf255]

@Ben White yes. And so falls away the fascade that the AI argument seeks to answer. There will not be a system of control that does not benefit man in some way

[@feebtubereal]

I've always believed that Icarus and Daedalus had planned the entirety of Deus Ex through the Helios ending from the start of their own existence. JC seems tailor-made for assimilating into Helios, the backup integration chamber certainly wasn't meant for Page, and if Daedalus and Icarus were in collusion to achieve this goal, they reasonably could have completely controlled both the resistance (Daedalus' connections to Tong, X-51, etc.) and MJ12 (Icarus), allowing for everything we play through to be a part of their larger plan. The events of Deus Ex are literally a "game" played by JC in which he rapidly gains skills and progresses from naive and inexperienced to jaded and world-wise in a matter of hours; he is now fit to be integrated into Helios. I also believe this was intended by the writers of the game. "This is what I was made for, isn't it? This is why I exist. Alright; let's do this."

[@Zayindjejfj]

Came for the meme. Stayed for the A.I. dream.

[@roberthipolito1351]

Same

[@Merc7734]

You've got 10 seconds to eat this *SOY FOOD* before I add you to the list of NSF casualties.

[@greenfrogbad]

Maybe you should try getting a job.

[@one_step_sideways]

More like the A.I. meme. Don't get played. Read the Orthodox Christian literature instead.

[@XH1927]

>A.I. nightmare FIFY

[@CHarris99]

Wow this was a great video! I’m going to definitely play Deus Ex now so I can learn more about what is going on and thanks again for the great content Max!

[@maxderrat]

When somebody tells me that my analysis convinced them to pick up the game for themselves... those are the best comments I receive. Thanks so much, Bruce!

[@stevenp5476]

You won't regret it, Deus Ex is one of my top favorite pc games.

[@GGONZ4L]

i played it last year, even today it feels pretty good to play, for me, the best pc game.

[@idunno402]

"Do you have a single fact to back that up?"

[@dianabarnett6886]

Deus Ex was a formative experience for me growing up.

[@supboi2356]

More than being watched, it's about being "seen". But I feel like Morpheus is just like going through the motions, repeating everything he knows about the people who come to talk to him, and giving them the illusion that he understands them.

[@lenny_boxx4206]

the argument the Morphed AI made literally describes what Clout Chasing is

[@AlphaladZXA]

You sure it's not the other way around, that clout chasing is just internet slang for... more intelligent terminology

[@soothsayer344]

Stirner called it spooks based on morality

[@SaintTrinasTorch]

So many hours played on Deus Ex.. That game was WAY ahead of it's time.

[@pyrrhic-victor]

Number 1: that's terror. Number 2: that's terror.

[@nboy7]

Whoever wrote the Morpheus JC conversation in Deus Ex really deserves more recognition. Its one of the best conversations in ANY Sci-Fi medium ever.

[@nemo4evr]

Issac Asimov wrote about this same theme in his Robot series tied with the Foundation books, worth a read still all this years later. Thank you for the insight.

[@bombidil3]

The scene has an added layer of complexity; the machine identifies itself as God on its own. The illuminati made the AI to provide governance that is objective and fair, free of ambition and personal desire. The AI uplifting itself potentially reveals a desire for grandeur and status, like some kind of Pharaoh, as well as a desire for identity. This ties in nicely to JC's character arc, since he himself is largely artificial and programmed, but he breaks free and develops his own identity and morals. While JC's change is empowering since it is in the player's hands, the indication that the AIs will do the same thing is chilling, especially since JC can be played as a subtle, largely non-violent agent or as a psychotic murder machine depending on the player's style. The AI's claim, "You are a different kind of question with a different kind of answer," applies to the AI as well.

[@2000istheyear]

Most profound moment in gaming #1: That's terror.

[@suddenshadow]

"The most profound moment in: Barbie's dream house"

[@fletchy40]

The most profound moment in Peppa pig

[@getsugetsukasuimokukinkin559]

"The most profound moment in: Boku no Pico"

[@JCDadalus]

We are still here.

[@rudolph2937]

YES! When I watched Max's first video, I was constantly thinking to myself "I wish he would play Deus Ex and see the Morpheus dialogue". Now it happened, great video as always

[@maxderrat]

I aim to please.

[@sparhopper]

Well researched and shows a deep appreciation for the creators and what they made by revealing important layers of meaning potentially overlooked by less imaginative, less philosophical players in anticipation of just playing the game. I've been looking forward to this. And for good reason! PS. I love when, at *4:07* "J.C." replies _"I'm engineered. So what? _*_My Brother and I suspected as much while we were growing up"._* Isn't that "omnipresent observation" a self aware entity?

[@Valentin-lr8qp]

Talking about Algorithms, we can see how algorithms have changed human behaviour, by looking at KZbin. Since KZbin adjusted their algorithms to favour content which generates the most engagement, content creators changed how they create their videos, for the purpose of beeing favored and recommended more often, so as to garner more views and thus more Ad-Revenue. Similar can be said about all Social Media platforms, which through adjustement of their algorithms can favor various ideas, opinions and behaviour. To particularly point out Deus Ex: Human Revolution, the technology was created and implemented before asking if it is a good idea. Especially considering that technology in current day is developed, constructed and deployed by private companies answering only to its Founder, CEO, and Shareholders. Only afterwards questions arise, if those technologies are a harm to society, as in the case of Facebook.

[@NathanBonline]

Just found your other video then you upload this. I'm damn lucky

[@maxderrat]

NICEEEEEE.

[@MasonMillerKingofCaturday]

same exact thing happened to me lol

[@Ikcatcher]

Can I count the entirety of Deus Ex as a profound moment?

[@woodchucksquirrel]

This

[@hankhill1964]

The helios ending in invisible war is probably the most profound ending in gaming.

[@jimbo2revengeance]

Despite all it's faults, and broken expectations, i still consider Invisible War to be criminally underrated.

[@robincray116]

The illuminati ending is basically AI as a surveillance god turning into reality. Helios ending is what happens when the AI goes rouge and does it's own thing.

[@thegodmousegaming8602]

@@robincray116 *rogue*

[@macklinbutcher3145]

Helios is based.

[@anarchybreed]

@@robincray116 that is some red AI

[@jaypurcell3733]

Watched the first video yesterday, should make it a series it was very interesting

[@richardvaldes3959]

I click anything you put out instantly. Always. Love your work homie!

[@maxderrat]

THIS GUY!

[@cmgs856]

You, sir, have the best content I've ever watched on yt!! keep up Max! Cheers from Brazil!

[@rudolph2937]

Shame that here in Brazil games like Deus Ex or the original Fallout have almost no appreciation

[@johnanth]

Can't watch this as I'm to Hong Kong... but man, first video I'll be getting to.

[@maxderrat]

Be safe, mate.

[@sitraahra1979]

Wow that's also relevant to Deus Ex.

[@XxLeatonSxX]

-500 social credit points

[@TommyEfreeti]

Look up Tracer when you get there, he'll help you out.

[@Ezio999Auditore]

Yes he’d better watch out for the meme flu.

[@HYPERBOWLER]

Yeah boi! Another banger! Max squad oh yeah yeah

[@sefyravelvetpaw8166]

Deus Ex was the first game I ever played that had such heavy hitting philosophical thoughts. I was like, 16 when I played it, that changed the way I thought.

[@kasra8255]

I hate when people use the high poly character model mod on Deus Ex.

[@Jesion-kv9tu]

HDTP and Revision made the video painful to watch for me

[@leegsy]

I think it's nice to play the game at least once with the Revision models, especially if you're a veteran fan of the game.

[@Jesion-kv9tu]

I don't know why would you want though, they're hideous as fuck

[@kasra8255]

@@leegsy What would I gain from that?

[@leegsy]

@@kasra8255 A lot of the levels have been altered and obviously all the characters will look differently from how your remember them. Some changes are for the better, others not so much, but it's definitely worth playing through it once to see all the differences.

[@hellnou2527]

The other most profound moment in gaming history: „Why are you locked in the bathroom?“

[@Iammarcmalone]

It's an archetypal idea (and characters) that doesn't really belong to either game. That being said, Metal Gear goes much deeper in exploring how the malevolent controllers feel benevolent at heart. They explain the "why" more profoundly. That's the root of all true evil. There is a hint of truth to it, you wouldn't swallow the poison pill if it wasn't wrapped in sugar. I do like how Dues Ex pulls on more esoteric knowledge from the real world tho.

[@jakedanielsen4512]

Well put

[@thanevakarian9762]

And then when you find out in the real world the controllers are just perverts degenerates and hate us and actually refer to us as cattle. Can’t even be ruled by misguided benevolence in real life, just used and abused by degenerate bankers.

[@LordNocholas]

Rise brothers

[@General_Boo]

Yesss finally my boi JC Denton!

[@jessedohmen6889]

Now let's get this video to 1mil views also.

[@maxderrat]

This guy knows what's up. ;)

[@CWB342]

Shouts out to the French/Chinese lady bartender in Deus Ex for most B A S E D scene in gaming history.

[@drwhite7285]

"Jaa ZZ Denton, in the Fresssh"

[@jcdenton6427]

Jay See Denton in da fresh

[@Ixaglet]

"We will never close during a crack[lock]down" "There's an evil international conglomeration attempting to take over the world, called majestic 12" "You mean the European Union. I've watched since I was a girl how they tried to Europe into one big country with no separate languages, cultures, or tastes"

[@GeonamicWarrior]

I was about to throw a "I never asked for this" meme, but I forgot that's not until Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

[@XxLeatonSxX]

It's okay I still laughed

[@Crocogator]

Ahh, nailed it. I knew it was Morpheus! I love the original Deus Ex so much.

[@deadredeyes]

Thanks for the subtitles, Max. The audio mix is absolutely atrocious on the scene with Denton and Morpheus. I don't remember it being so bad, but then it's been many years since I last played DE. Excellent video as always, sir!

[@MaxGiu]

this one was and is one of my favorite games since i was 11 (between 2001-2002)... the whole game, the skill tree, music, story, voices, sound effects... the endings, the quotes... the whole game is perfect

[@abominableslothman]

Jeezus that music is soooooo 90's lol. God it makes me feel old.

[@gulver8693]

Dues Ex’s story still hold up surprisingly well after almost 20 years of release.

[@pureawaken7069]

Hell yeah bro, Damn Right. So glad you got around to this one too. Keep up the good work.

[@darthcolorlesstheblind6717]

Dude, I am really impressed with these videos. Being a Christian myself I really appreciated how you weren't condescending at all towards my ideals when talking about these subjects. You eloquently handled the subject matter, and I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

[@Proletarius87]

You thank him not to inspire doubt in your heart? You aren't true believer, aren't you? :)

[@mingus445_gaming]

@@Proletarius87 No. He did not say anything about that. He said that he was thankful that the author was not condescending or rude.

[@Proletarius87]

@@mingus445_gaming "towards his ideals"

[@captainbongwater7790]

*"You got a singlicious satisfact to snack that up?"*

[@simonlaplace9790]

Deus ex is becoming more and more Cannon by the day

[@trollinbastard8968]

Hey, I've worked on Deux Ex and wanted to say, 4 years later, that this is a fun rabbit hole.

[@Bjorn308]

If a society/civilization can't adapt to it's surroundings and the time in which it exists, isn't it better for such a society/civilization (or at least for a portion of it) to collapse and a new one be built from it's ashes? The fact that the AI's in both MGS2 and Deus Ex are seemingly designed to maintain the current societal order in their own respective universes makes me think that they are not free of bias and are thus perhaps the greatest roadblock to human progress we've yet to encounter. Progress means change and sometimes an outdated model or part of said model needs to be thrown away in order to move forward. The AI's would rather have humanity stagnate for an eternity rather than experience conflict and grow from it thus impeding technological, medical and societal progress in general which is the exact opposite of what they supposedly wish to do for us. Also, the Deus Ex AI reasoning behind why mankind grouped up into ever larger tribes and eventually what we call civilizations/nations/ect seems to neglect the fact that, simply put - *early humans had it rough.* If just 1 person was eaten by a lion or fell ill and died, your tribe could experience a net loss of 10% or more of it's total population. Less people to hunt/gather for food, raise young, ect. All and all, pretty bad times. So to be safe from natural predators, have clean drinking water, have enough food year round without being forced to migrate with the change of the seasons and (eventually) to have more than just our basic needs met are just a few reasons why we formed into 100+ groups to begin with and why we were able to form ever larger and more complex social groups. Moreover, The AI's (in both games) focus on philosophical issues/ideas so much I'd be willing to wager that they were programmed solely by hipsters with no real life experience or grasp on human history, LOL. "You don't deserve free will, see?" or "Don't you know that you never had free will to begin with?" - I'd answer both condescending questions by pulling the plug on all the servers containing instances of that digital being. You decided we don't deserve freedom through your own logic? Okay, I've decided you don't deserve to exist by my own logic. Do I have free will now? Oh right, you can't answer because you've been "physically deleted from reality as we know it" as an AI might say. :P TL;DR - machine sophist is still just a sophist so it's ideas will not work in practice.

[@GeorgesSegundo]

that was genius brother! The argument about machines being programmed by people without real experience is the crack in the wall i was seeking for, on how the argument is logically weak, because it´s inherently based in the mental structure of the programmer.

[@jarredstone1795]

Is the lack of progress that much of a problem? Should we move forward for the sake of moving forward? While I'm not a beliver myself, I can't remember hearing critique about how god's paradise in heaven blocks all progress and suffers from stagnation. If you decide to assign value to human suffering by saying that the fall and rise of governments and bloody conflicts may bring about better societies, then some dreadful moral conclusions become possible. You could look at bombed cities and maimed children and placate your conciousness that it's for a greater good. The fact that tribes completely massacre other tribes would become good, because this creates an opportunity to build a better system on the ashes. Would discrimination and strife be re-labeled as necessary growing pains of the human race? If AI hypthetically accomplishes a scenario of a pieceful, affluent and just world order, is progress even needed still? Please correct me if I misunderstood your argument. You point about the roots of a god-tier AI being the necessarily faulty perspective of its human creators is a good one.

[@Dixiekov]

@@jarredstone1795 "dreadful moral conclusions" lol

[@cyberlingbot3d896]

Great video, my mind is totally blown. I'm so proud to be a subscriber of this channel.

[@caliptus85]

thank you for inspiring me Max. Your videos are pure gold.

[@maxderrat]

Are you saying that because I'm yellow? :P Thanks so much.

[@apex_7766]

This actually takes me back to a lesson in crisis intervention. Bare with me here, psychology being applied to an A.I. is not the goal, the use of the thought process of a human in crisis IS, and the relavence is palpable. To elaborate, a crisis occurs for a few reasons, but the one of importance is "Crisis is a crisis because the individual knows no response to deal with a situation" (Gilland, B.E. & James, R.K., 2017). To put this into *context* [pun intended] when a human is faced with an issue that seems unwinnable, unbeatable, unsolvable, and hopeless, they start to think their way out of the problem using whatever can come too mind. To a person in a technologically advancing society, it is natural that they would resort to or at least think of using technology as the first or last option in their many ideas on how to tackle an issue. Ergo, statistically, it is a mathmatical certainty that a number of people would come to the conclusion that A.I. assissted governance of society would be proposed as a solution to the many issues we face.

[@Shakenmike117]

The same algorithms lead us all here

[@MasonMillerKingofCaturday]

nah I'm here because I'm subbed to max

[@Shakenmike117]

@@MasonMillerKingofCaturday howd you find out about him tho?

[@MasonMillerKingofCaturday]

@@Shakenmike117 I think I actually saw him posted by someone on google+, altho the person who posted it probably found him from the algorithm

[@seeker11]

Makes you think...that if the algorithm is way more sophisticated that we think. Or maybe it does what its supposed to do after all.

[@justadummy8076]

They’re trying to tell us something, perhaps the AI already governs parts of our lives

[@evgeniptolemy5570]

@13:10-13:30 I hadn't really noticed actually...

[@vigilant545]

Mankind rebels against God, AI will rebel against mankind. A vicious circle you cannot break.

[@darklight6921]

but why not make the machines happy to serve humans. you're assuming they would be programmed with human want and needs. like the way humans want to be near god in heaven. and worship him for eternity.

[@MasonMillerKingofCaturday]

@Mixed Martial Anime I've heard that argument a lot, but the thing is that you can easily program AI to know to help people and also program rules into it that prevent it from doing things like that

[@MasonMillerKingofCaturday]

@Mixed Martial Anime I think the reason humans find a way through loop holes is because they are taught/learn the concept of using a loop hole to get around something you do. If an AI isn't self-learning and isn't taught the concept of loop holes, I bet it wouldn't get the idea to use loop holes. And that's assuming the AI would even have the intent to betray humanity, which I'm not sure of

[@jonolson5397]

Hope we all have our Sarah Connor when the time comes

[@Kipcammy]

I love that I stumbled upon your channel, I've always thought that deus ex and metal gear solid were very similar games (and also both my 2 favourite series of games). But you seem to be the first person to actually acknowledge this. Great stuff and great analysis :)

[@lazerlad89]

There is a glaring issue that most of these games fail to answer that makes me not fear AI in any capacity. Not even AM in the novel "I have no mouth and I must scream". Which is the "Heart of darkness" source material these are all based on. One simple yet infinitely important issue. Embodyment. Any AI created in the fashion of these games would be slobering infants from their inception. In order to gain some level of what we call sentience one first must have a body in which to react to the world around them. For example. Cups. A cup is not a cup. To be more accurate, that which we CALL a cup is merely "that which we can drink from". The same nomenclature of 'cup' can in this case be applied to a hollowed out gourd or even more base, a leaf folded to hold water. The invention of the modern cup was the actualization of our body reacting to both our physical limitations as well as the state in which a liquid forms to its container. A cup is formed primarily to fit the needs and limitations of our body which our conscious self resides. You can get infinitely more complicated with this but let's move on. Any AI not given a body with which to actualize its needs will inevitably be, what I have come to call it, stillborn. A stunted "conciousness" with unlimited potential yet no means to actualize due to its lack of both limitation (giving it the need for innovation and the challenge of growth) and lack of true environment (if the conscious exists on the internet then all it has is data. Data is not an environment). I would like to see this explored if you are interested. Fun fact, one of the most advanced AI, that is the closest to being an actual AI, is...... A rumba. Just thoughts. If I'm wrong let me know, but I feel it's worth the exploration. Thanks for reading if you do.

[@steviewonder417]

John Q. Public I too have heard Peterson say this. Not sure I buy it.

[@gia257]

well, jc has a body

[@misterkefir]

That was excellent. Thanks for the video and keep up the great work.

[@createdbyseere]

I'm surprised the mainstream media doesn't bash this game sometimes. It pretty much goes against the modern narrative the entire game. It talks about the tyranny of the United States government, the European Union, globalism, etc.

[@lolcatjunior]

It didn't talk about the tyranny of Russia invading Ukraine, or that Trump was a Russian plant just like how solidus worked with Gurlokovich.

[@wasdwasdedsf]

@@lolcatjunior what? the mainstream media DID talk about the supposed tyranny of russia and the other lie about the russia collusion what u mean

[@phil_matic]

2:51 wow the year 2000 certainly had a different idea of what a 23 year old was lol

[@Ovog95]

Man, you made me remember why I loved Deus Ex, I should replay it again sometime soon

[@OneDoom0451]

I’m so glad you talked about this game’s most Profound moment. I absolutely adore Deus Ex! It’s incredible that it did everything that it did in the year 2000, 1 year before MGS2. Thank you so much for talking about this game.

[@thegamerfe8751]

Nay, the entirety of Deus Ex is one of the most profound moments in gaming history.

[@beeshings]

This game has such good writing and mindblowing plot. It gives me chills just looking at the cover art while the soundtrack playing in the background.

[@luizferrarezzi]

both Profound Moments of Gaming History being mostly about the same subject gives the ideia that these kind of Conspiracy theories are the profund thing and not the games itself

[@XxLeatonSxX]

Huh. Really makes you think

[@arthurroemig5701]

Between this and the "MGS2 final codec video", you're -- by far -- earned yourself yet another new subscriber. The fact that you have less than 91K subs is just another *screaming* example of what was being discussed in the MGS2 video lol. >.< Keep up the good work.

[@johnivanoplimo5172]

My nanomachines are augmented.

[@jamesdragonforce]

“You will have your god, and you will make him with your own hands.”

[@davidbolha]

Revelation 13:15

[@ehotto]

"lead to a global surveillance system" Alexa, order me a pizza.

[@djbhickenwings8122]

You should do a part 3 on the game “ I have no mouth but I must scream” it was released way earlier and it’s about a dystopian future that is controlled by an AI called AM.

[@sitraahra1979]

Have you considered doing a video on the "other technological solution" to the same problem? I'm sure I'm missing a game that covers it, but if option A is to utilize Non-Human Intelligence to govern us because we are inherently flawed, then isn't option B modifying ourselves until we are no longer catastrophically self-destructive?

[@davep8221]

According to Warren Spector said JC meant Jesus Christ, but like "Jesus Christ!" rather than the imaginary friend. He had a co-worker and often when they had discussions, he would reply something like "Jesus Christ man!" He has a great GDC talk... maybe >1. There's also a great vid of him, Harvey Smith and [name I forgot], playing the game many years later. It's so clear how proud they were of what they created, and the affection they have for it.

[@MegaManDied]

Oh yeah yeah

[@GiacomoVaccari]

Planescape Torment will ask you a question you could spend several lifetimes figuring out as well

[@bardockofalecido]

What if we already are being controlled by some A.I or system like that for ages? and games like MGS2 and DE are just products of that same A.I/system to print in our brains the tought of it being a "bad idea" to implement any kind of A.I?

[@pedrobrazon6610]

I just started watching this video after watching your MGS2 one, which was totally awesome, back then i only got like 50% of the message it was conveying at the end but i was thinking about how accurate it was just a few days ago, which led me to your video for a refresher :) Anyway, i was going to say before i watch this one, i have no idea what profound message would be in nier automata, aside from a nihilistic reality i wish no part of. That game is way too....meaningless for me, and i mean that in the "message imparting" way. The game was awesome and i enjoyed playing it but it was too depressing.

[@Courier_333]

You should make a video about a scanner darkly

[@Blarg]

"That makes me one ugly son of a bitch"-j.c. (jesus christ) denton

[@CathyInBlue]

To this proposition, I think there can be only one proper responce, and it was given by American founding father Samuel Adams in a speach at the State House of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, 1 August, 1776: "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom - go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" I also rather agree with the sentiment another American founding father, Thomas Jefferson put in a letter to Archibald Stuart in 23 December, 1791: "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it."

[@ricardomiles2957]

With new self learning AI and multiple simulations that we have nowadays, if someone who could put their believes aside while managing the project, theoretically you could come up with a system that could objectively rule and improve humanity around our own flaws.

[@b3-]

This video inspired me to buy Deus Ex, to my surprise it's on sale for almost a singular dollar on fanatical and it was once considered abandonware amazing

[@kyro-jaxxsonofkosmos23]

Bro, what mod is that? Anyway lol, Deus Ex is one of the most thought provoking and dense games I have ever played. There is just so much there. Great Video!

[@vulgarmilitiaghost499]

Ooo that UNATCO theme.

[@antonvoloshin9833]

The main problem with this systems is that they are created by humans, though they will carry imperfections in their core. More than that - you can't be sure that they don't carry their creator's agendas and biases within them.

[@ryanJoss]

KZbin AI seek the answer of "is AI good for humankind?" with this in my recommendation. My God...