The Paradox of MMORPGs | Asmongold Reacts

by ‪@IdylOnTV‬ • The Paradox of MMORPGs
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Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmongold
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[@Kngofkngs]

Best part of playing solo is not having to rely on your teammates to have the IQ required to move out of fire..

[@_TheJp_]

as a world of tanks player i could not agree more

[@ridleydaemonia1134]

Same reasoning why I play support on overwatch. Got tired of bad heals and DPS in disguise. Well, similar reasoning.

[@patyos2]

@@ridleydaemonia1134 That moment when the support player is the only good player and carries the entire team

[@gb342002]

As a Sea of Thieves solo player its nice, but its also harder. If I get into a multi ship battle I'll open the lobby up and thats when i get the most useless first day player ever lol

[@gb342002]

@@ridleydaemonia1134 Sure guy, you sure you aren't that DPS in disguise?

[@Oni-_-Elite]

As a solo player myself my biggest frustration is when devs make easily soloable content require other players for nonsense gatekeeping mecs like in dungeons and raids where you literally just need the extra bodies to do some dumb shit like stand on a pressure plate to open a door!

[@jimmythecrow]

then you should be playing a single player game. Youre part of the problem

[@Achor]

@@jimmythecrow No he isn't. the design is the problem and they way Blizz teaches player to become competitiv. Its not about solving problems or learn teamtacitics. Its just doing Raids (or buy them).

[@ShinseiX]

@@jimmythecrow I wouldn't say that but if you really don't want to play with other people there are better games out there

[@great_based_one]

Yeah, like that dungeon where it said "you cannot enter this dungeon with less than 2 people", so i spent 15 minutes trying to find someone for the dungeon just to sweep it in literally 15 seconds

[@lobsterpher3053]

@@jimmythecrow what is this problem you speak of?

[@Muttsist]

The people who don't know why we play solo are the reason why.

[@MikeG-cx9nc]

Edge achieved

[@amykpop1]

You sure because it's due to your lack of social skills?

[@Muttsist]

@@amykpop1😆 If not socializing with people who are antagonistic in ruining the game by being argumentative, combative, contrarian, or two-faced makes me socially inept then so be it. I just want to play a game and unwind. Not be wound up over politics, gossip (rumor, drama), religion, or pure instigation. I'll happily play solo to avoid the mess thank you.

[@wawatooki]

​​@@Muttsistok then just don't join an elitist guild. It's not hard whatsoever. Your conclusion that somehow every player other than you is antagonistic is just stupid.

[@Ugapiku]

There's a reason SWTOR always ranks S tier in solo content, the whole game is basically a singleplayer with people running around you real time...

[@Fiddlefiddle5000-qv1ly]

Theres is some missions that require 2 people but those are completely optional

[@Drezdenez]

@@Fiddlefiddle5000-qv1lyafter they nerfed heroic missions you can solo them with npc companion as healer. On release you couldn’t even with 2 people

[@Outfires]

Yeah honestly right now in SWTOR only serious multiplayer is flashpoints.

[@Roman-pf1gb]

I don't get why people bring up the whole "Why play MMOs solo?" question. I mean life is an MMO and yet most of us choose to spend a majority of our time alone so it's no surprise that we'd do the same in an MMORPG.

[@lampisfun1139]

The point of the video isn’t about the “why” it’s about the “how.” It’s explaining how modern devs are ruining the solo play of MMOs by making the game essentially an actual single player game. Instead of designing the MMO to be multiplayer and letting the players choose their solo playstyle from that.

[@Lighthammer18]

If you play an MMO completely solo and just refuse to engage with any players whatsoever then I'll have to question why you are wasting your time on playing what at that point becomes essentially a really grindy and slow RPG.

[@PrototypeMajor]

@@Lighthammer18 illusion of "life world"? I mean, in FF14 you can find out players, who are just relaxing, by doing some trivial activity, "roleplaying", racing, etc. In Genshin Impact the only thing, that give hint, that this game is more that single-player: lobby group for world exploration/world bosses/"farming arena"/weekly bosses.

[@Ecliptor.]

you don't play life by choice, tho

[@yuteh5008]

​@@Lighthammer18 1:01

[@Arashiii87]

I completely agree that the primary appeal of solo play in MMORPGs is the freedom it offers. Developers must understand this and avoid forcing players into group activities that can lead to frustration. Providing meaningful solo content that respects players' autonomy while still offering the option for group activities is key to maintaining a diverse and engaged player base.

[@shikyokira3065]

Building group mechanics into the game is the biggest mistake. A raid should be planned, not waited outside. I had spontaneous raids too, and those were some of the most fun raids in my life. Many of us became long lasting friends from them. And I made more online friends from forced idling than from all of the group activities

[@Flupperz]

I liked how GW2 did solo stuff. A lot of the game is played solo and when you want to do group stuff, it's still pretty easy to do and you just show up. No real need to organize most of it, unless you're doing very hard content. You're basically playing solo with just a ton of people around you.

[@sketchylurker]

Is Garden Warfare 2 really that great?

[@Zelinator1]

However the multiplayer stuff feels like you play with a bunch of NPC's and it starts to feel meaningless after a couple of times.

[@stinkyratman]

@@sketchylurker Most likely a joke but in case it isn't he's talking about Guild Wars 2

[@lmAIone]

@@sketchylurkerits okay, I thought of garden warfare too. That game was awesome man 🤙🏼😂

[@NapoMMC]

GW2 has best solo content that you can do with other people of you want, or as you said, you just solo while other people are doing the same around you. I stopped playing FFXIV because I did not have the time to wait in queues for dungeons just to do the main story. I really liked everything about FFXIV but I like hos I can just play GW2 even for 30 minutes and no minute is wasted. You still can get progress on something in that time soloing if you don't have the time to organize a group.

[@ellismcdaniels4212]

Playing an MMO alone is like listening to the Radio. You know you're experiencing a song the same time as some other people, but you might be alone in your car or something. While another group at a party is listening to that same song on the radio. You guys are all enjoying that same song at the same time, just in your own places in your own way. I think that's why I enjoy playing solo in some games. I'm still a part of the community and the game experience, but in a manner I can control and at a pace I set.

[@gb342002]

me in new world

[@LibertyDino]

Come on dtagonflight wasn't that bad.

[@SecreTGF]

I havent spent my entire life playing solo to change that fact on a different world

[@gontrand2416]

Exactly what I was going to say

[@edub1170]

solo gang gang

[@swinkerswonker2745]

as an mmorpg solo player, Assmongler is spot on about why we play mmo's solo

[@mantraki]

At that point just play a single player rpg, at least for me that what feels playing a mmo solo

[@swigersssssssss]

He only has the context of WoW which is not even close to being the best MMO.

[@reapicus557]

@@mantraki No, not at all, those two experiences shouldn't feel the same. Solo MMO does not feel nearly as empty, or hollow, like single player games solely filled with NPCs, simply for the fact that I know there are other actual people bebopping around. That alone makes the mmo leagues more fun! :D

[@derisgaming9773]

@@mantraki Having the option to play with others if I want is why I play MMO's. Even If I'm Solo 95% of the time, the 5% I am not is what I enjoy as well.

[@gustavmeier1953]

​@@swigersssssssss well as wow has the highest player base close to 3 times as much as the 2nd most played mmorpg old school runescape im pretty sure its considered the best. i may not know what your best is but it is what it is.

[@metadude1234]

Every time I do the social mmo thing, I am very swiftly rewarded with a reminder of why I play alone; the average MMO player is either an asshole or an idiot; usually both

[@malikfoxen2045]

Yuuup

[@alexsynthesis]

Especially those people who takes it way too seriously like during a dungeon or raid they yell at you for not doing this or doing that. Why aren’t you stacking. Like bro it’s just a game calm down 😑

[@shlomogoldstein3373]

I am both. I'm also racist

[@moshpit89]

@@alexsynthesisthis reads like you're part of the problem

[@MobileGamerD]

@@alexsynthesisyou do realize that’s part of the problem 😂😂 you are not doing a mechanic and you are wiping your team and saying “it’s just a game” wasting everyone’s time, I bet u don’t do dungeons or raids often 😂😂

[@zacharyrohr1448]

GW2 mastered this long ago. Easily the best MMO at letting you solo while seeing real players everywhere and seamlessly working with them.

[@DyceFreak]

GW1 is even better still, letting you solo everything with customizable AI hereos so you don't have to work with any incels to take down scaling damage sponges.

[@iansanford6544]

I love GW2 for actually managing to make other players' presence not be a detriment. For most of WoW, as an Alliance player, you're still actively competing against your 'allies' for mob tags, ore/herb nodes, quest items, gear drops. GW2 made me actually appreciative of rando's out in the questing zones or farming spots because they're borderline never taking stuff away from you.

[@buguawugaman]

this is the best to go about it solo yet its super easy to team up with someone close by and get the same rewards

[@wladynoszhighlights5989]

@@iansanford6544 Its big upgrade in wow to have personalized loot from mobs so if someone hits a mob first and you hit it after you both can loot it, but I agree on the other things those could be shared as well at least in open world

[@Jimusmc]

@@DyceFreak loved that game, can have your healer and tank and minion masters to swarm mobs. was great

[@jacobnicola5950]

I play MMORPG's solo because of the randomness, if you see the world alive and thriving with players roaming around, that world becomes a lot more believable and alive, the factor of randomness, players chatting shit on public, seeing the chatbox move while doing your own thing makes you feel part of that world too despite never or rarely interacting with other players.

[@weaksause6878]

I'll never forget the first time I made it to the Crossroads and Alliance were there murdering the town. It was awesome, I was hooked. Thankfully my noob ass didn't flag myself despite not understanding why they weren't attacking me.

[@ArkBenji]

Some players enjoy the challenge of playing solo. If it's too easy it just gets boring.

[@Marcorix2010]

The thing is with MMO's solo play is rarely challenging, with wow in particular solo content is extremely easy for the most part, just autopilot farming. All the difficult content is group based and just coordinating with others adds a whole level of challenge in itself. If people want a solo challenge there are much tougher single player games out there.

[@Satyr42]

@@Marcorix2010 I find it interesting that only WoW players seem to have an issue with solo play in MMOs. Players of Runescape, GW2, FF14, ESO etc. seem to have no issue with it. Why do WoW players dislike solo play in MMOs so much?

[@buguawugaman]

people that focus on solo are the worst folks IRL that jus tmeans they do everything in there power to no be social or be useful to others... dont want any responsiblty.

[@szaka9395]

Go play lineage2, where in party of 9, 3 do damage, 6 are buffers and one is running out of party to help. You are not even considering leaving the town on your own :D

[@wladynoszhighlights5989]

@@Marcorix2010 I agree, except mage tower challenges or some other exceptions all the challenging content is high mythic key runs, mythic (for some ppl heroic) raiding, arenas and rbgs and similar which are all group player contents. But thats to be expected, since its in the name, massive multiplayer online, otherwise it would be normal singleplayer RPG. But the rise of solo mmorpg players make it more and more important to have good challenging content for solo as well

[@mandalore41]

Been playing mmo's since my 20's, now in my 30's I've been in guilds, roleplay guilds, been a guild officer responsible for training and spreadsheets. Now, I have a career and I play those mmos alone because I don't want another job.

[@nenzonenzo]

No you play MMOs cause your addicted to that specific game. Just go play an SP game and get of the copium.

[@mandalore41]

​​@@nenzonenzo that may be true but I'm a true red blooded gamer and you are making the same mistake gaming "journos" are making right now which is, telling us what we should do. So the mindset is, we will continue to do whatever we desire and you can kick rocks.

[@mandalore41]

@@nenzonenzo You're making the same mistake current game "journalist" are making. Telling any red blooded gamer what to do will make them give you a nice finger and do the opposite. So, we will do whatever we want to do and if it displeases you, go pray.

[@Bathroomsteve]

@nenzonenzo and you couldn't be addicted to a SP game? What logic is this my boy?

[@TheJaredScheller]

Why do game devs think introverts will magically become extroverts the moment they log into a game?

[@CmdrBrannick]

For me, I've almost always solo'd MMOs. I see it as an open world RPG before it became a popular thing. Also, games like The Old Republic, i just wanted to experience the story.

[@latinelover24]

same, The Old Republic i do solo, since we will never get proper KOTOR 3.

[@Dizzz127]

I personally had to play solo because all my real life friends weren’t gamers. Met with the guild once a week for raids but ultimately grinded alone.

[@fok8810]

the real solo end game is getting max level and being too shy to even join a single raid

[@RealBadGaming52]

, my freinds are gamers but dont want to game with me much, and an MMO forget about it

[@luridftwgaming8983]

Y’all don’t give GW2 enough credit. The weapon combos changing your class entirely was awesome. Instead of sitting there for hours saying “LFG” you just went to the events and did it with the random people that were there. In my opinion it was one of the best mmos, I actually had fun leveling up and it didn’t seem like a chore like WOW.

[@RawCyberHub]

I like GW2 but im not a fan of it. everybody has thier own taste even if you think your GW2 kills all, but it dont in many ppls opinion. my fav mmo is SWTOR but there are alot of ppl that dont like that game. but its not gonna make me not like it, as long as its making me happy and im having fun I careless what ppl say lol. so thats why i never cared about someone giving swtor credit, it dont matter, its not gonna make me like the game more if they like it or gave that game credit.

[@dkail08]

GW2 was ok. I thought it was a lot easier than WoW... which was already too easy. I wish the games would add a difficulty slider or something. Give you a debuff with an exp/drop buff or something when solo.

[@cartman55655]

Leveling up is such a small part of gw2. Most long-time players just skip it entirely by going to your bank and clicking on a tome of knowledge 80 times. I love the game, but if you're already playing one, mmo. You really don't have time for another. I have over 4,000 hours in gw2, and I'm not even close to doing everything or having everything.

[@nakano15]

LFG is still a thing if you try to do a dungeon, or if you want to do a obscure event that is not in the travelling path other players do, though.

[@gb342002]

@@dkail08 GW1 was so much better

[@rossallison1835]

I’ve mostly drifted away from mandatory multiplayer games because it just doesn’t suit my lifestyle anymore.. through high school, college, and many years after I would go hard on World of Warcraft or League of Legends. But ever since my kids were born it’s become very challenging to lock into a game for a few hours to raid or even 30+ mins at a time for a dungeon or League match. The game itself usually pushes you away if you are unable to stay locked in for the duration, either you are disappointing and frustrating your teammates or the game actively punishes you for having to afk or both. Because of this I mostly play MMO lites now like Warframe. Usually these games are far more accommodating to play, you can choose to play with a premade or random group which usually is optimal for loot or speed while everything in the game is also soloable in the case of Warframe you have the added perk of most game modes which are instanced allow you to fully pause the game making it incredibly convenient to play or walk away from at a moments notice.

[@FuriousDevi]

Playing an MMO solo can have good reasons. Grouping up with others - friends or strangers - always requires a fix commitment of your time etc. and if someone still likes the game itself for various reasons ... playing solo can absolutely be an option for certain people. Some MMOs can be played "solo" extremely well like Guild Wars 2 or The Elder Scrolls Online.

[@Garox97]

As a men with anxiety I liked to play mmos "solo" because I can still communicate with people when I want and also I could just communicate trought emotes like in WoW without talking and still understand what that persone mean, and it kinda helped me to open up more to people so for me ability to play solo in mmo is a good thing, somtimes i just run around world and wave to people sit next to someone who is watching a view ect just simple things which bring me joy and maybe for the others too

[@Jigglexphysics]

EMOTING IS THE BEST. I’m a woman with anxiety and I just go around hugging random people or dancing to music people play in game.

[@Garox97]

@@Jigglexphysics yep that’s the best thing in mmos or at start of dungeon or raid u wait for rest and just start dancing with people who already are there

[@razorsfury6519]

I was a solo mmorgp'er. I absolutely hated being forced into a party for specific roles.

[@RawCyberHub]

dead as i hated that too. back in 2000s early days i was like " i wish i didnt have to join up wit these power trippin ppl.. i hope in the future this changes but i doubt it" years later.. it happened. " you have to be a tank because your class has that option to go dmg and tank so do it now, even doh you suck at tanking we just need a tank and we are gonna get mad at you if you make 1 mistake btch" - yea im out f this game lmaooo..

[@ExamplePrime]

Most people now want to play a Solo RPG without feeling like they have 'missed out' or 'wasted their time' Whenever thats the mindset, it means the game means more to you than being a method of relaxation. Its become a coping mechanism for your life. Something in your life is wrong and instead of identifying and fixing it you're working to make Sword Number go up because that's much easier to handle.

[@Wraithling]

Jokes on you, playing Solo is the only option in MapleStory

[@gb342002]

thats cause maplestory is for weebs

[@sutenjarl1162]

its also garbage

[@buttergolem8584]

TBH I played Warhamer Online, WoW, FFXIV, Albion Online, Guild Wars 2 mosty alone. Only grouping up for Dungeons and stuff. Ilike when an MMO is good enough to play alone, still makes you feel like you're in a living populated world with all the other players.

[@MaxiSokrates]

People who steal guild banks are stupid "assholes"...and thats are also the guys you wanna never play with it. There are too many "assholes" out there, thats one of the main reason why it is so hard to find a good and nice group.

[@BrianKnieling]

I mean the guy you’re watching regularly stole a guild bank

[@jhonnyappleseed4130]

Some folks are nice folks but in the game become devious it's all fair in love and war. I don't like playing like that but I understand folks who do. Sometimes folks forget it's a game, your suppose to have fun and not take it so serious

[@KovahhavoK]

Agreed. I think it's the first time Asmon has said anything I adamantly disprove of. I know it's just a game, but people put a lot of their time/effort into it. I've been the victim of Guild greed before, doesn't feel good when you've spent time in your life grinding/saving only to have someone take it and think it's hilarious that you screwed that many people over. Says a lot about your character. Using the argument that you can't act like a psycho irl but you can in game is a terrible argument. Peoples true colors come out when they're online. What says a lot about your character is when even though you're online and you can really get away with anything, you still maintain respect for those around you and treat them like humans. If you have a power trip and think it's hilarious that you can get away with screwing people then you're a coward. If I were standing in front of you there is literally no way you'd just grab my backpack/wallet/keys and walk away with no consequences, but you'd want to. That's cowardly.

[@Olorin-gc8zo]

@@KovahhavoK He's also a long time admitted griefer who loved killing newbies just because. He's always been an asshole in my book. YMMV

[@SergeyMace]

I'm 33 and I completely agree with Asmon on the reasons why I hate multiplayer. What I think WoW and other MMORPGs lack is simple. You grind, then you show off: I did that myself, here's my top gear, here are my solo bosskil achievements, that was hard solo work and that's my doing alone, no one helped me and now look at yourself, you suck, bitch and you had your buddies helping you on every step and every dungeon. You have to be able to level up alone, there must be a way for you to gear up real good solo and go and beat the shit out of people on the arena. It should be a bit easier to do that in a group and game should give you access to some better dungeons if you're a member of a guild (but not require you to run them in a group, you should be able to enter and clear it solo even though it'll be extremely hard). That's it. Here's the best recipe for MMO that I would play. I love to grind, I hate to rely and coordinate with other people. I don't have time for this shit. That's why I dropped Helldivers 2 for example even though it's a good game. It's possible to play it solo, but it's fucking boring because it's meant to play with friends. I don't have time to schedule with them to play, I have my fucking life going on. I actually found my best type of game that is multiplayer and require lots of solo grind at the same time: Simracing. You got to be fast to win team races and in order to do that you have to drive hundreds of laps solo and then join your team to have endurance races where you swap each other every hour in the pits. Best experience ever. You grind, you improve, you show off and win races with your team together.

[@ratboyiscool]

This commenter right here understands the problem.

[@billyturner9930]

In endurance sim racing the worst feeling is picking up 2 or 3 positions over your stint, going purple in sectors then your team mate bins it on cold tires in t3 lmao It's still fun as hell. Just did the Bathurst 12 hour and I'm practicing for indy. Remember your goal is to be within 5 tenths of your last lap every lap. Consistency is the most important thing in endurance. That and keeping the fuck away from the gt3s in the protos

[@jhonnyappleseed4130]

Division series is a multi-player game but u can do it all solo and sometimes when folks die they can send out a request for help. U can help them show off ur cool stuff and dip

[@SergeyMace]

​@jhonnyappleseed4130 Posted this on my blog and a few folks suggested TESO and SWTOR - these could also be played solo and SWTOR is basically sort of the next game in KOTOR series in terms of solo content. Thanks for your suggestion!

[@aternal9491]

I'm a diehard soloist. I served my years with endgame raiding guilds. My favorite time during WoW was in WotLK soloing vanilla raids with a warlock. The strategy involved was quite unlike anything else in the game, which is surprising considering it was unintentional content. That said, I've recently started playing Warframe and have been blown away by how fun of an experience it is by any standard -- much less as a free-to-play game. Ironically, the game is able to be played 100% solo but I find it way more enjoyable to play it with other people. No toxicity, no rage, no forced content, just good old jolly cooperation.

[@EchoDoctrine]

Played destiny for years, its moving away from solo players Is Warframe a game for solo folks? Can I still get great items/gear as a solo in Warframe? I just got into first descendant and seen so many folks saying it’s a worse Warframe, but I’ve enjoyed it.

[@aternal9491]

@@EchoDoctrine Warframe is a very good solo experience. The more I played the more I wanted to group with people though. It doesn't force it on you, it just makes the game more fun and faster, which is how it should be. There's no sweaty competition or toxic behavior. You should def give it a shot, not like you have anything to lose. It does take a while to learn, there is a LOT of content for a new player to catch up on.

[@SidMajors]

Coming from someone who played MMO’s with his gf: I can tell you that solo is a much better experience. We realized it’s immensely frustrating to work together like that and be locked in at progression points. Never ‘waiting’ for others ever again when I just want to have some fun.

[@Felipin7228]

One of the reasons I play a game like Warframe is because it allows me to play completely solo. Yes, when I go to a hub I can see other people, but when it comes to missions, I can enjoy those at my leisure. Plus, solo play allows me to pause.

[@Fiddlefiddle5000-qv1ly]

Like i think playing warframe with people is only good when defending objectives but for infiltrations uhhhhhh boy. Me trying to do that in stealth mode and a random guy just triggers the alarm.😂😂😂

[@billyturner9930]

I play in groups with my junk relics to get the good stuff from the suckers farming traces. Tbf I only have vaulted relics since I quit for like 2 years at the time then play for a month or two

[@jhonnyappleseed4130]

I used to only use multi-player for trades pets or 1v1 in/show off mine and others dojo

[@quantumbyte-studios]

My wife was a new player to MMOs and played The Old Republic. She felt forced to play with other people and they called her names and she quit shortly after. It's important to let new players play and say you dont have to play with others if you dont want. It could mean the world to a new player.

[@neowolfsden]

These days I mostly play solo, I enjoy doing things in my own way at my own pace. I did the whole grouping all the time, raid schedule BS when I was young and tbh It was just stressful, it wasn't fun. The way I've always explained it when I have invariably been attacked by children who have no capacity to understand that MMORPG's are not inherently "grouped" experiences is to explain the accronym to them. Massively = Large or Expansive Multiplayer = Many other people in the same game, NOT a reference to grouping. Online = Self explanatory Role = Something other than your real self Playing = Interactive, hands on experience Game = FUN, thats right its meant to be entertainment not stress So many folks just do not grasp what the genre even is, and so attack soloer's because it doesn't fit thier idea of how "YOU" should play the game in their opinion as if how you play it at all is any of their business. Also it is a massive assumption to assume just because you solo, means you are introverted. I am sure there are those who are, but like I say for many it is just that we JUST want to do things in our own way at our pace without other people BS and constraints impacting that and that is it. MMO's are inherently "social" by design but they are not, nor do they have to be "grouped", and last time I checked I didn't need to be grouped to be social. ;)

[@thefirstloser]

I wanted to write nearyl the exact same thing. It is the same thing with me. I have my own pace and often jump around doing this and that while playing, which is not possible with others most of the time. I feel often rushed because others focus on doing everything the optimal way as fast as possible. I am one of the few who reads quests and skills...a few weeks ago I got even angry because a friend of mine just did not get where to get an item. It was in the text "I want to play and not read". And I do not play to explain everything everytime.

[@thatsoulsguy3028]

I hardly ever play in groups with other people. I enjoy the style of gameplay that MMOs offer so I’m going to play them. At my own leisure. Everyone saying “just go play a single player game” doesn’t really understand that single player games don’t offer the same exact experience of an MMO.

[@newtonfilipenied6594]

you have single player games that ressemble mmo's, like FF 12

[@thatsoulsguy3028]

@@newtonfilipenied6594 I understand that but I don’t like ff games at all. So I’m not going to play games I don’t like it’s just that simple

[@Stickman0660]

​@newtonfilipenied6594 while ff12 has mmo mechanics in thr gameplay. It still doesn't feel like an mmo if that makes sense. Might be a weird take but mmo mechanics outside of mmos just feel off to me lol

[@zarvinn]

The "why play mmo" is an annoying issue in FF14 in terms of MSQ and general activity being locked behind group content when you just want to play the game and not deal with people.

[@RMartian76]

I always looked at MMOs as games that presented a world for lots of players to enjoy, but that didn't necessarily mean you did things together. Just that it was a big, living world with other people roaming around. I am a solo player. I love MMOs because of the size of the world and they are usually very open world which I love. I think another thing that turns off people from group content is the meta. When you're solo, you don't worry so much about BiS and what I "should" have equipped. The minute you get into raids and group stuff, then you HAVE TO wear this if you're a healer or that if you're DPS. I loved it for a short while then it because tedious and obnoxious.

[@dazza5137]

It's all about single serving friends. Helldivers got it right, 30 mins with a bunch of randoms. I like not being forced into commitment.

[@m0nk3yscr4tch]

Tell me you've never played GW2 without telling me you've never played GW2.

[@Aggrofool]

I played it briefly, it's mid.

[@Lifesizemortal]

You mean that one WoW clone?

[@solidmeat7403]

GW1 still blows it out of the water

[@brobin2518]

No one cares about gw2

[@mihailomarkovic6285]

What does it have to do with anything

[@ServeMySoul777]

I always think I want to level with friends but then I realize shortly after we begin that we inevitably get separated, and someone always out levels the other. I’ve never actually finished leveling with another friend. We usually meet at the end and do dungeons and raids. Casually inviting a random to a quest to make it easier to tag mobs, or in hardcore to make a potentially dangerous quest safer (most of the time), is more convenient. These things combined, coupled with seeing lots of people around the world, is what makes a mmo to me.

[@VarusDraske]

For me, its the fact that if im playing a game that my friends are not, the guilds i join kick you if you are gone for a day because "you are inactive". Some dont even wait for the day, if you go to sleep, and get on in the morning, youll still be kicked. The time commitment guilds expect from you is just unreasonable, and makes it easier to just go solo.

[@danialmoser2573]

Single guy, here. No kids, no wife, 110 hours a week at work. I prefer solo mmorpg, every day.

[@tylerp5839]

Married dad with 3 kids here, 40 hours a week at work. I prefer to solo the peanutbutter jar at 3 am, every day.

[@FrazzledZaz]

Yo, 110 hrs a week at work sounds miserable

[@danieljones3413]

​@Zaz80085 I've done 80-90 hours a week and that sucked. No life at all and too tired to play a video game.

[@rundown132]

What in the world do you do for work?

[@notwhatitwasbefore]

110 hours at work plus 8 hours sleep per day leaves 2 hours per week not sleeping or working. Thats 0.285 hours per day which is 17 minutes. Activities like washing, eating, pooping or comuting are either coming out of that 17 minutes a day of gaming or out of that 8 hours sleep. If your not lying please stop doing that to yourself it WILL kill you. fast.

[@pro.giciel9084]

If MMO dev don't want solo play, make a matchmaking system that put the player in group nearby him each time he logs in. Add group challenges so players don't quit the group immediatly, or just prevent player from quitting the group without having another one to join

[@HitmannDDD]

Ultima Online, the game credited with the creation of the genre was completely soloable, the concept wasn't novel to WoW. Granted, UO was a sandbox with no real storyline or quests. WoW just perfected the Everquest experience.

[@numa3071]

The original GW did solo mmo play WAY better than WoW. You could fill your team with AI, gear them, choose their skills, and you could sort of train them to use certain rotations.

[@Jelaroth]

Guild Wars 2 to solved most of the issues mentioned in this video more than 10 years ago. It is a unique MMO experience, but might not be very approachable for themepark MMO regulars who look for a gear treadmill. Otherwise, it is also one of the most accessible MMOs out there.

[@samtama5914]

0:12 everyone come to him, like people in wow go finding asmon spawn point.

[@xxJing]

I love how Guild Wars 2 handles things. Most things are soloable, but grouping is faster and still worth it. What I mean by this is, in FFXIV where grouping isn't required it's actually inefficient. FFXIV either forces you to play with other people, or it encourages you to solo.

[@predictorbibulous3327]

I, like a lot of you, am a solo WoW player, I really enjoy PvP and farming. Pvp for the competitive nature of it, I love healing in bg's. Farming because I can zone out, listen to a podcast, and benefit from it. Grinding in a 1 player game feels anti-climactic compared to getting a new mount or a badass new weapon that everyone can see and say "oh damn that guy has that one sword!"

[@MrJum987]

I play RuneScape alone because all my friends left me. Who needs em anyway?

[@pehclark7256]

Dude, old school RuneScape.

[@yous2244]

We humans are just social creatures and can't handle loneliness. And no you're not alone when you stay locked in at your home all the time. Because you have a phone and even if you didn't you subconsciously know that if you stepped outside, there are humans there. Same in as MMOs, you play solo but you know there are people out there and you know you're not alone.

[@devarient]

Bad take

[@Auraniwastaken]

Huh? By that logic I'm not alone because I have neighbours

[@yous2244]

@@Auraniwastaken yes, you don't feel that you're completely alone in this world because you're free to and can easily leave your house and see that other humans are outside. Just like with playing MMOs solo, there's a reason you didn't choose to play a single player game alone but chose an MMO even though you won't do multiplayer stuff.

[@wladynoszhighlights5989]

I actually want to be rather completely isolated in a forest with little house than to be with people who are toxic and dont have good intentions Maybe being with animals isn't complete isolation either?

[@yous2244]

@@wladynoszhighlights5989 but you know the world hasn't ended and that you're the only human left.

[@Sean-A]

Im a solo player and i like mmo solo because a lot of them have character creation, open world, great story and a heap of dlc content to play and I prefer to be by myself and can play at my leisure.

[@gregorsmirnow6337]

I've played a lot of ironman OSRS. It's only solo in terms of difficulty of achievement. I can't buy or trade of course, so I'm collecting all my own resources and hunting for my own items, but I'm never forced to be alone. If I'm skilling, I'm doing it with other people. Same with minigames, raids, anything. Unless you're buying carries in raids, it's still an ironman experience since an 8 man team vs raiding solo gives 8x the drops, but only a 1/8 chance of me getting the item. Single player and solo self found don't have to be the same thing :) Unless it's enforced like in PoE.

[@Tarbis71]

Honestly I just like the option to play with friends often , but I prefer playing solo to playing with randoms

[@gontrand2416]

Other players in MMOs are just another kind of NPCs. MMOs will become irrelevant once we finally have advanced in-game AIs.

[@Ephicx]

I don't want to play with AI. I want to talk to people I can talk with outside of the game too, potentially even hang out with in real life. AI is not a "cure" for MMOs.

[@procles876]

@@Ephicx exactly. I don't care how realistic it is, it's not the same as meeting a cool human in the wild.

[@HazemMaddouri]

@@Ephicx True. I feel like AI could be the cure to boring lifeless NPC's in single player games, but in MMO's ... give me real people.

[@frequencyoftruth2303]

That's because they have only made and most to attract numbers and then they strip it more and more to make it more appealing to people who aren't even looking for MMOs. Herein lies the real issue.

[@InsaneWeihang]

I used to play Ragnarok Online and they had Guild Wars called War of Imperium. In the guild war, you had to take over castles guarded by opposing guilds by breaking the Imperium at the end of a gauntlet of rooms. There was ONE GUY in the server known for getting through the defenses and sniping the Imperium, taking over the castle. The guy was a legend. So yes, I really agree on the point of 'loners' in MMOs

[@geekmetalhead8032]

FFXIV letting you go in dungeons and trials with a group of NPCs was one of the biggest W ever for solo mmo players

[@Ferengi4]

I am still confused on why FF14 is considered an MMO. You have instances which can't invite others to do, the only non-raid/dungeons stuff you can do together is the MSQ stuff which is just travelling to different people to talk to them and maybe kill a few mobs. The only "MMO" bit is dungeons and raids which you queue for and a lot of them have zero people even doing them cause they're not worth being replayed. So you gotta annoy friends or sit for an hour to get a group to do some dungeon one time.

[@barahng]

It's a hallway simulator with some RPG and multiplayer elements. Still a good game and I've had a lot of fun with it over the years, but I wouldn't ever call it an MMO.

[@syressx9098]

What are you talking about lmao

[@rank1132]

I've just completed the FF14 free trial. Aside from a couple of dungeons, raids and golden saucer activities I had no idea I was playing an MMO. I must say I enjoyed it that way. I know it's there somewhere, but I'm rarely forced to interact with it.

[@happyjacksavinka5560]

A hundred years ago I ran a toon on a friends account (before that kind of thing would get you banned) and I started from lvl 1 and just did some questing. I'd run across veteran players and when they found out it was my first time playing they'd get pretty excited and help me run the quests. This happened a bunch of times and I had a blast- years later some of the kids at work were taking about wow and I told them this story. They all got quiet before one of them said "oh it's not like that any more..." It's weird how games have changed. Salt mines...

[@TheCynicalSkeptic]

Picked up GW2 a decade ago. Understand there’s a repetitive end game of sorts where by you basically run from boss to boss on the time schedule, but not requiring grouping to boss run while still rewarding the kill to all participants individually via a RNG chest reward system (no loot rolling) had its positives. Never understood if there was a relationship between damage dealt and rewards received, but it still seemed one of the better systems at the time for solo players.

[@jasongaylard2547]

One of the reasons I love City of Heroes. I can build a character good enough to solo an eight man Task Force (dungeon equivalent). So if I feel like joining a group and more than half turn out to be brain dead I can still finish the thing. Also characters of different levels can team together and the loot is in the form of recipes and salvage that go straight to your inventory (no loot roll offs or drama). The recipes and salvage are random drops and not tied to particular dungeons and can be bought and sold on the auction house. There is no ‘gear’ so your appearance has no impact on your characters performance.

[@ThMrksman]

30:45 If you've ever had the experience of being in an extremely tight-knit raiding team that were all nailing their roles that night, you know exactly what he's on about. It feels fucking incredible to be part of that group of people absolutely demolishing an entire raid in a few dozen minutes like it's a walk in the park!

[@konan3792]

I forgot the bosses name but it's a gauntlet fight in Pandaria against the insects. The cage fight where you open boxes, anyways I always loved that fight cause you could control the pace of the fight. Everything finely timed and you could even push your group coordination in chaos situations.

[@Mr_northern_fox]

I like to play as a simple traveller on the road who helps other players in small ways, like an NPC companion. I don't talk to them, I just follow them and judge from their movement and actions what their quest is, and sometime I send a group invite, just to see their health bar. I basically like playing as an RP strider LOTR character. If my helping them ruins their experience, lowers their XP gain, or confuses them, I leave them alone. But I always feel like they see me helping and think they are trapped with me or think I want more from them like a friend request or guild alliance. New world did this very well, same as albion online sometimes. But I haven't found a game that makes this RP, part-rime fellowship gameplay feel authentic. Star citizen have had some great moments like this. FFxiv world events are the closest you can get to it, but that focuses more kn the objective then real team work/companionship.

[@Roman-pf1gb]

The issue is either whatever you're doing in an MMO requires other people or it doesn't. If it does, then either the game needs a convenient way of finding other people like queues, or else you become stuck unable to do what you want to do for extended periods of time which is annoying. That or else when the MMO is "dying" then you can't do that multiplayer content anymore. Old MMOs like Everquest gated even leveling behind this. This system is fun and encouraged playing with other people, but it's not sustainable which is the issue. Alternatively, they can give you tons of stuff to do solo and now there's a more hefty game when you don't have other people, but then the problem becomes if you don't need other people, why should you make an effort to involve other people

[@MannyBrum]

In the USA, people spend roughly a half hour to forty-five minutes a day socializing (not counting work-related interactions or social media). I think a lot of it has to do with jobs that involve a lot of negative social interactions as well as social media which can have a lot of negative social effects such that people tend to want to unplug from social until their social battery is reset. Thus, if an MMO requires you to spend several hours in a social situation it's going to be popular with people who maybe have no other social interaction other than the game but not necessarily the average population. Even countries that have a much higher degree of socializing, that time is still less than an hour and a half, usually less than what a lot of MMO endgame content requires. This isn't even taking into account that some people's game time might be broken up into multiple sessions even in the same day due to other responsibilities. This is why in WoW it's more common today for the average person to group for one or two quests rather than group up for a dungeon or raid. In vanilla WoW the endgame didn't feel like something you had to do, at least not right away because there wasn't a timer counting down to the next expansion, so you felt more compelled to put the effort in to do it. I had just started raiding in vanilla when TBC came out and it evaporated any incentive I had to play endgame content because now there was a timer to get geared to do endgame content before the next expansion came out and if I knew I couldn't beat that timer than I shouldn't even bother and do other stuff instead.

[@Frogthroat1]

I play ESO solo for the good brain chemicals. Sure, I play in groups, too. But when I complete a 4 player dungeon alone, the endorphins are mine, all mine! Not diluted by having more people in the group to share the happiness brain juices, but distilled into perfection when I alone did the work of a tank, healer and 2 dd's simultaneously.

[@Merguin]

Honestly playing Solo or with just 1 or 2 friends in a MMO, is the greatest thing ever. You can help each other out, if you want to, or you can just go your own way and compare which ways you have went later down the line. Achieveing something in a MMO solo means something, as you actually need to prepare/learn the content. In most MMOs you can just get carried by your raid/team whatever, you can buy yourself into getting gear and achievements. You can buy stuff from the auction house/market just to progress. This is stuff that a solo player does not do. He makes his own story, experiences his own world and enjoys it for what it is. That is why I would love to see MMOs introducing stuff like the mage tower or the tower from lost ark (forgot the name), or and even more imporantly, solo content. Like the same dungeons tuned to solo players, same rewards/cooldowns so dont have an advantage/disadvantage. Some kind of content concurrent to raids for solo players

[@Aydindra]

MMORPGs were my first games. I loved making my characters, using skills under numbers, finding combos I like, doing quests and leveling up. I like the format of those games. What I didn't like was the MMO part. Other people seeing what I was doing, waiting for rarer monsters to respawn just to wait more, because it was someone else getting that last hit to finish the quest and the worst of all, getting forced into pvp regions and getting killed in an instant when I was just minding my business. Once I found a game that other players were visible only in the cities and the wilds were all for you and your team, which could be other players or hired npcs. That was perfect, but I don't remember the name anymore.

[@bernhardlabus8511]

The mix of both is what makes a MMO great. Doing a guild dungeon/ raid together is nice, but I also wanna do stuff without others in between. What if theres just not enough of your guildmates around? Play with randoms which almost always is a bad experience? Just log off because theres noone there right now and try later?

[@MIDO44444]

Mmos for me are games with a world I share with people instead of npcs, I dont necessarily wanna interact with them alot of the times but I just find comfort in the fact I am not alone in a large world

[@Aiko-xy7qf]

Half baked logic. A lot of what made Classic WoW so good is that it forced multiplayer through dungeons, and thats how people got to know each other. Now everything is solo focused in most MMOs, to which point players who want to play solo could just.. you know, play a single player game. Its fine to have content that you can do solo, but for everything to be solo in an MMO defeats the purpose.

[@ganjabear1892]

Problem is. The community fights against this. Even in classic it was like pulling teeth to get people to even quest together. The community just isn’t what it used to be. The current generation is trash and selfish now. They’d rather fail trying to solo a quest boss than even talk to you and group up. Wish I was wrong but that’s the facts

[@John_1920]

17:36 I'm so glad you just compared it to a drug addiction. That's exactly how it felt for me several years ago when I practically had a daily schedule of eat, sleep, game World of Warcraft, repeat. It got to the point that I skipped school several days to play the game, rejected offers to hang out or do things with friends and family, and only ever was seen leaving my room whenever I had to use the bathroom. It was ruining my social life and social skills, and took an argument with a girl from WoW (I know for a fact she was a girl, she visited me irl as we hit it off) getting heated over nothing for me to finally decide to sell or give away everything I owned in the game, including all the gold I had painstakingly saved up, and leaving my characters basically naked to finally be able to quit the game.

[@WeavementSesestea]

Fun personal fact: I have been soloing solo possible bosses in MMOs from the beginning. Not because I was good at them, but because it was possible. It would take me 2 hours on average. Occasionally people would join me randomly now and again (like 2 people mostly).

[@PopeDuwang]

When I have a child, I will make sure they go under the Rite of Passage and play RuneScape Classic if it still exists at that point in time.

[@button9]

I remember being in a guild where every once and a while we'd have someone new get mad that no one wanted to group with them, so they'd leave - saw this happen a lot.

[@radicalcentrist4990]

MMO's are typically open world sandbox games in which other players just happen to run around. The sandbox part means that you can, and should do whatever you feel like, be it solo content or multiplayer content. Some people simply play it just for the sense of adventure, for the questing and exploration's sake, they don't really care about the hardcore content that requires no lifing.

[@Kaimariification]

For those wondering in the comments below what someone means when they talk about GW1 or GW2, they are referring to Guild Wars 1 and 2. To be fair, Guild Wars 1 is partially an MMO because the majority of the game can be played without others if need be, but there are certain things that require at least one extra person to do certain quests. They even set up certain group missions where you would need a second group to have NPC play the second group just in case there are not enough people in for that mission.

[@audiohazard1203nut]

The content you find online is about the most hardcore most efficient possible way and the best gear to defeat dungeons and for some reason that becomes the standard of how everyone needs to play through that dungeon. So when groups happen everybody complains when nobody's attempting to do the same exact thing in the same way because it's just about the speed.

[@smw1193]

The gold standard of this philosophy is Monster Hunter. A totally solo game, that allows you to party up against deviously difficult ai enemies as you progress with the hardest difficulty being made easier by grouping up. But you can always be a real one and solo all the content like a psycho by getting gud

[@korndogz69]

One thing I really loved about FFXI was that it was mainly designed for party play, but my first job to level 75 (which was the cap at the time) happened to be Red Mage. As it turned out, Red Mage with a Ninja subjob, was the best soloing combo in the game, and if you were skilled enough to the point you had mastered the job, you could solo fights that were designed for 6 people, or even more. I very much loved the big fights that took 18 people, but I also had the option to solo really difficult fights as well. It was great! It also meant if I was going after an expensive drop, I didn't have to sell the really rare item to split it with the other participants. Hell no! I wanted the drop to use it, and if I didn't want, or need to use it, I could reap all of the profits myself.

[@LivvieLynn]

Solo is fun because you still get to play with other people without feeling obligated to play with specific group. In FFXIV, Eureka and Bozja are the peak of the content. It is solo/group content. Only thing to make it better would be if you didn't need parties for XP since it's always multiple parties anyway.

[@josiahneff3272]

The msq roulette in ffxiv used to be unironically social because you were stuck in there so long and forced to sit through so many cutscenes, people would actually talk to each other pretty regularly.

[@ChrisThornettofEarth]

Casual dad of eight kids with four wives here. Other players are a logistical annoyance when you just want to play the bloody game not spend your time waiting for half your party to be ready to hit a dungeon. I like exploring on my own terms and actually enjoy following the story on my first run through a group quest. Yeah, I know really annoying, but if I'm paying a sub or a lot of money for a game, I want to soak it up and not run through the content like a maniac. I think that's one of the sad things about the demise of Warhammer Online. I really liked that you could do stuff on your own and then magically find yourself in the middle of a battle as you wander through an area or stumble into a public quest that linked you in with other players for a while (or not, depending on your preference). Ironically, that game died because it needed players for too many things, but I think it was on to something. As someone who started with text MUDs, being a solo player wasn't an impediment to getting lost in an alternate universe. In many ways, MUDs offer some good examples for doing MMOs well as you were/are both part of various communities (guilds, clubs, sometimes races and temporary groups around a timed event), so you had the ability to party up while also being an individual hero who could uncover a new area for days without feeling like you were playing the game 'wrong' by playing on your own.

[@SCESW]

I loved playing Everquest during a period when many of us had been laid off during the mid-late 90's, but EQ required grouping up to do well (unless you played a Necro). I spent a LOT of time training new players to work with the guild and how to raid. I got my RL friends to play and since I had the fastest internet connection at that time, friends would bring their computers to my place and we'd all play EQ together through the weekend. But then... the Unemployment checks ran out and we got new jobs, some moving away from Austin, and some started building RL families with kids. Having played so many hours of EQ, we had higher expectations from MMORPGs and from other players we grouped with. My friends and I blew through Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Everquest 2, City of Heroes and dabbled with games like WoW (but most of us didn't like WoW). A game expecting us to Raid for 6+ hours was 'ok' when we were unemployed or still in college, but as we got older and had more responsibilities... our time became MUCH more valuable than that of a pompous 20-something game developer who couldn't fix basic bugs in their new MMORPG. So, this guy's video is spot on for those of us who used to be the avid MMORPG gamers who prefer to play solo games that have the ability to PAUSE and SAVE.

[@jh_lolz]

Classic WoW is the best MMORPG ever made in human history.

[@OrdinarySense]

The truth: New World chests run were actually fun... the first 10 times. The other 250 I did were in fact not fun at all... and if the game didn't have auto run I would have quit sooner

[@procles876]

I did nearly 1000+ chest runs . You had to be in the discords, it was really fun while it lasted especially with mounts. Too bad it's over now.

[@hito9608]

One of the main reasons I play MMORPGs alone is that I love soloing dungeons. I find that really fun. Or farming dungeon alone, even if it is not optimized

[@MrCrossTd]

Just started playing swtor and enjoying the solo content and stories a lot. There is a dungeon finder but its called activities where you pair with 3 other people to do flashpoints(dungeons) and the social side of that is "hi" at beginning and "ty" at end, this is the whole interaction. You get social experience from being in guild and you are encouraged to join one for bonuses anyway.

[@xyzCrake]

There is a very easy scenario where its fine for a class to be bad: In a system where players can easily change between classes like final fantasy 14 (which ironically actually has really good class balance). As long as it's trivial (or at least easy) for a player to swap to something else, then it's okay for a class to be bad. This also gives devs the ability to be more agile in terms of adjusting class balance, because if everyone can swap when at a moment's notice, nerfing or buffing a class isn't that big of a deal, and it allows them to arrive at a better balance level faster. Personally, I think class and level designs themselves are very outdated systems. In an era where gear is reset every 3 months, and all the focus is around the latest content, what value is there in actually having levels, gear and classes. Make unlocking different playstyles the progression system, and give players meaningful goals that aren't tied to player power

[@Reddude24]

I 1000% agree on the "locked in" aspect. I don't play MMO's anymore cuz I feel that I have to be on everyday or at least several times a week if I want to be on top of things, that's the main reason why I stopped playing Lost Ark. I'm 33 and work full time, go to the gym, hang with friends, etc. I don't have the time to be on all the time like I used to. So sad, lmao.

[@Deadscheme]

I wish they would make Large group content = Raids Small Group Content = Mythic+ Solo Content = Delves (a Hybrid between The Pit(D4) and Mage Tower with a leaderboard) I think making solo content higher difficulty would be the best way to do it.

[@MrChasanDayve]

Several classes in Everquest could solo up to 50th, until the mobs could summon at 51st. Druids, Magicians, Necromancers and Shamans to name a few. Pets, dots, and snares FTW.

[@richarddevenezia8186]

0:11 Like going to a rodeo and no brakes, straight out the gate the action begins, and I haven't had any popcorn yet.

[@danily11]

One thing about mmos is that the focus on group content often feels very tunnel vision-y. People that don't "get" solo play have this tendency to look at group content as the only legitimate way to take advantage of the massively multiplayer component of an mmorpg. I remember when I first started playing wow I rolled a dwarf and spawned into the game world at nearly the same time as another new player, we did our starting quest alongside each other but not in a group, we raced each other for mobs and objectives but the eventually he pulled ahead and left coldridge before me. Before he left we duelled and he won, I thought that was the last time wed see each other, but we met up again in Loch Modan, teamed up to take on the ogres, and duelled again (he still won, but it was closer this time) before parting ways. I always wonder why MMOs don't take advantage of those kinds of interactions or the myriad different kinds of interactions that can happen in a multiplayer environment beyond grouping up with people to take on bosses or fight in structured pvp. Edit: I do think MMOs stand to benefit from a small amount of required multi-player "icebreaker" content at low levels, the problem comes from a game making required group content the norm.

[@XxXuzurpatorXxX]

The golden standard is when the 'multi' part happens organically, without developer intervention. Thus it is a matter of scaling. It is what D4 tried ( and failed ) to accomplish.

[@aaron8977]

MMOs are just literally perfect for me. I like doing most things solo like questing and grinding stats/levels but I also love raiding with people. If I don’t have to do something multiplayer, I usually rather wouldn’t. Just cause if I’m solo I can hop in and get started. Not wait in a lobby

[@Rosk404]

I love GW2 dynamic events. Its a great way for solo players to play but still interact with others(often solos).

[@sunggyulee9020]

I think the best way a game can make a game social is through creating "third places". I always look back at Tibia. It was a game that had almost no required social gameplay requirements. And yet there were so many instances of social interaction. In fact, when I was a kid, I never got above lvl 30 because I spent 90% of my time socializing. Tibia had "funnels" if you will. places that players were forced to go to every so often, and it was usually the bank. This forced players to often meet the same people all the time. You also had quests that served this purpose. For example, in the Noob island, you had the Minotaur quest, very common quest, that gave you some of the best items you could get in the Noob island. People gathered there all the time to try to do the quest, because doing it alone (though possible) was really hard.

[@badgertom6153]

37:25 This was entirely why i stopped playing SoD in phase 3, the "hey classic player want to quest and grind mobs in one specific area and get loads of gold exp and items that weren't available in classic? we got you covered this is just like retail" And just like that i stopped having fun and it died for me.

[@jmcb91]

everyone's literally a solo player until you're legally married

[@prancinNOOB]

It's important to note that Everquest had the Necromancer class explicitly as a solo class